Part 1: Saberage and Cyber

A champagne bottle can teach you more about cybersecurity than you’d expect. We start with sabrage, the old French tradition of opening champagne with a saber, and we get hands-on with the real mechanics: finding the bottle seam, aiming at the pressure-focused weak spot under the lip, and using a controlled slide instead of raw strength. When it works, it’s clean, safe, and oddly satisfying. When it doesn’t, it’s a fast lesson in why technique beats confidence. 

From there, we turn the physics into a security mindset. Attackers rarely “cut through the whole bottle” they hunt for the one weak point that breaks everything open. We talk about what that means for cybersecurity leadership, preparedness, and incident response: practice before you’re under pressure, keep your defenses sharp on campaign, and avoid the expensive pattern of procrastinating until an incident forces a rushed buying spree. Readiness is a balance, not a single obsession. 

Then we nerd out on the blades themselves, from a Napoleonic-era hanger built for this kind of work to a Scottish basket-hilted broadsword and a stunning 1600s katana. We get into why European swords often chase flexibility while Japanese blades lean on differential hardening for a harder edge, plus the cultural story behind foreign steel and expressive fittings. We wrap by cutting fruit and confronting the final lesson: hesitation changes outcomes, so train your form until decisive action feels normal. 

If you enjoyed the mix of history, hands-on technique, and practical cybersecurity takeaways, subscribe, share this with a friend who’d try sabrage, and leave a review with your favorite “weak spot” lesson from the conversation.

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Transcript

What Sabrage Is And Why

SPEAKER_02 0:05

So, what are we doing here, Drew? Yeah, we're doing a little bit of sabrage. So, sabrage is the opening of a champagne bottle using uh using a saber. And it's uh it's an old French tradition. It actually started in the Napoleonic era. Supposedly, the Napoleonic soldiers would ride through the champagne part of France on their way to Waterloo, and they would, there was a beautiful young woman who was one of the vineyard um daughters, yeah, maidens, and they would all try to impress her. And so one guy she handed him a cold bottle of champagne, and they would all drink the champagne on their horses as they rode. But one guy um decided to pull out his saber and cut the top of the bottle off to impress her, and that's how Sabraj was supposedly. Was his name Sabraj? Or the Sabra.

SPEAKER_00 0:58

No, no, no, it's because Saber shit with the saber.

SPEAKER_02 1:01

Saber Aj. I don't know, French. French for saber shit. Yeah.

Finding The Bottle’s Weak Spot

SPEAKER_02 1:07

Um, so what you do is you prepare the bottle, and then uh I'm gonna move over here. That's a good idea. It's a good idea. It will go a little ways, and then you're actually looking for this is your this is your tie-in right here, you're looking for weak, the weak spot in the bottle. There's one place right here on the neck of the bottle, on a champagne bottle, that below the lip, and it focuses all of the energy of the bubbles of the champagne into that one spot. So just a light tap will cause it to uh to open.

SPEAKER_00 1:45

So is this kind of like you know, with cyber criminals, they're finding the one or thousand spots and that's their way in, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:52

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 1:52

I can't, I couldn't cut through this bottle, but Cody, you could try, you could try next.

SPEAKER_02 1:59

One small tap to the right spot. Oh.

unknown 2:04

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 2:04

And the bottle opens. And nothing went anywhere. Clearly, nothing went anywhere. That's because you properly chilled it. Most importantly. I I actually have done it professionally. I did it at weddings in college. Love

Learning The Slide And Follow-Through

SPEAKER_02 2:15

it.

SPEAKER_00 2:15

I was expecting so much more of a bottle. Okay, what am I doing here?

SPEAKER_02 2:18

So, what you want to do is you want to look for the seam on the bottle. If you look, you'll see where the two pieces of the bottle come together. Oh, it's right here. So turn it a little bit more. See that seam where the two saves.

SPEAKER_00 2:33

Light's not great, is it? Oh, is it?

SPEAKER_02 2:37

Yeah, right there. You see, it runs all the way down the bottle. Got it, got it. And so what you do is you hold it in that hand, you take this hand, and you can see where I've got some kind of indents from where I've done it a lot. You just set the saver along the side of the bottle and slide it down. You want to give a little bit of pressure so that you pop it right in the back.

SPEAKER_00 2:59

Okay, how much force do I need?

SPEAKER_02 3:01

Um, not like a ton, but you do want follow through. You want to more? Yeah, there you go. That'll do it.

SPEAKER_01 3:09

Pickleball me. I think like a little punch. Don't don't don't do it.

SPEAKER_02 3:13

More force. Down more. Press down more. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 3:16

Here we go.

SPEAKER_02 3:18

Nope.

SPEAKER_00 3:20

Got it. Ah! There it is.

SPEAKER_02 3:24

A little bit more bubbly. Glad we had that tarp. Glad we had that tarp. See, that's and yours broke better too. Okay. So two seams. Is there just either a seam here?

SPEAKER_01 3:36

I got a seam right here.

SPEAKER_02 3:37

I it's you mean you see it on both sides of the bottom.

SPEAKER_00 3:40

Is it a seam or a sim, Cody?

SPEAKER_01 3:42

It's well, this is a seam, also like CISO.

SPEAKER_00 3:45

Uh-huh. But if it was a CISO and a CIM. Then this podcast is over.

SPEAKER_02 3:49

Okay. Just set it right on the scene. Okay. And you actually want to hold it a little bit more like that. There you go. With a little bit of an angle. So you're going to be hitting it right there. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 4:00

And it's just, you know, you got to give it a little bit of force, but it's there, is there, is there any like good like saying you hear you, you know, as you as you push it off? Any any good luck or good. Um, what's that?

SPEAKER_02 4:10

I I for some reason people always say opa, which is not not that's Greek. So I don't know what French, what do they say in French? Uh I'm gonna ask AI for like cheers.

SPEAKER_01 4:25

Which means good luck. Bon chance. Or a potosante to your health is cheers. Okay, a botorosante. All right, here we go. A botor sante.

SPEAKER_02 4:33

Oh, there it is. Look at that. That is pretty. Well done. Well done, Sash. Beautiful. Well done.

SPEAKER_00 4:42

You can break that out before you gotta find a sword.

SPEAKER_02 4:44

Well, hey, I I if you guys want to know the secret, you can do it with the back of a kitchen knife. Really? Yeah, you can do it with anything.

SPEAKER_01 4:51

Not as fun though, then as the case. Yeah, yeah. You just need something with a little weight. I am. Look at that. Now, if you you you've seen a lot of you've seen a lot of bottles be broken. What are your thoughts here? Just a quick, quick, unbiased opinion to myself and Aaron, who are competitive at all. What do you think as far as this clean one versus his last couple of tries he had? Unbiased.

SPEAKER_02 5:11

Yeah, yeah. Unbiased. I mean, clearly you did it on the first try, and that's a very clean break. So while Aaron's the one who invited me, I'm gonna have to have to go with Cody.

SPEAKER_00 5:24

I don't want the rig, I don't want the uh results to be rigged.

SPEAKER_02 5:27

To be fair though, you both beat me. Mine's a little jagged, but I like that. That is clean. Isn't that cool?

Antique Sabers And A Clean Break

SPEAKER_02 5:34

Yeah, so this is called a brigette saber. Um it's a it's a small infantry hanger. A hanger means the sword that they would hang from their belt. So it would have been around the Napoleonic era, so early 1800s. Um, and it's it's just a general issue sword, brass hilt. Um, but I really like it. It's got a nice size and weight for this for this for this particular.

SPEAKER_01 5:59

And then you would this would be sheathed.

SPEAKER_02 6:01

It would. It would normally, and in fact, I have a leather sheath at home for it, but it's very old, and leather gets very brittle and uh when it gets old, so I don't usually bring it around. I mean, if people were using it to fight. Oh yeah, uh it's not as much as you think. Um this is actually a pretty heavy one. I have I have about two dozen hangers. I like them, they're fun little swords. Um this one's fairly heavy, but it's still probably, I'm gonna say 1.2 pounds, maybe. Pirates liked them. They also pirate ones tended, or naval ones, uh, not just pirates, all navies, um uh liked them to be just a little bit heftier so that they could cut ropes and things with them too. They didn't have to, they they could um use it as a tool as well as a Jack Square would have had something like this. Exactly. All right. So um, because you guys kinda gravitated that way in I do too, I brought uh a nice Scottish sword from the um middle of the 1700s, um, which is right when, if you watched the movie Rob Roy, when Rob Roy was at, and this is um, I really like these basket-hilted broadswords, sometimes called claymores. And this one has a really wide, thick blade. Um, they used to supposedly the English said that a Scotsman could cut somebody in half from shoulder to hip. Yep. That's our next MS with their broadsword. Yeah, okay. Four tears, four tears. Um, but here, you can hold this as well. It's it again, it's probably gonna be lighter than you think. And a little bit more. It's also sharp.

SPEAKER_00 7:41

So does this sharpen to fighting value, or would you?

SPEAKER_02 7:45

That's about where it would probably be. Um usually these wouldn't be razor sharp. Um and we can talk about that with with Japanese swords, which I brought too. Um, Japanese swords tended to be sharper, but that's because they differentially hardened. So that the edge is much, much harder than the back. The Europeans tried to get the same hardness all the way through the steel, which makes it very flexible, but it won't hold an edge as well. Um, so it would be sharpened, you know. I we we have lots of examples of the British Army, amongst others, issuing orders to sharpen sabers. Like, like we're gonna go into battle, sharpen them, get them ready.

SPEAKER_01 8:29

When you acquired these swords, they've obviously been used before, so there's chances that these swords have got some numbers

Sharpening Swords As Cyber Strategy

SPEAKER_01 8:35

on them. Oh, yes.

SPEAKER_00 8:36

So sharpening sharpening the sword, like connection back to cyber, there are a lot of teams that are kind of just complacent in the way they've always done it. They're not practicing for battle, they're not sharpening their permission sword. Absolutely. Like, what does that take? Is it leadership? You mentioned command, you know, we command you to sharpen your sword, we're gonna battle. How do cyber leaders like it's you know, what's the connection there?

SPEAKER_02 9:01

Well, and and I I think I think leadership and preparation, right? Because um you're seeing the commanders say, Okay, sharpen your swords, let's let's get ready for the battle that's going to come. But also a good shoulder soldier should have had their sword sharpened while on campaign all the time because you you don't know when you're going to be attacked, right? You don't know when. Yeah, if if you wait until the battle, then it may be too late.

SPEAKER_00 9:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:31

So I think that that's a good allegory for you know leadership in in cybersecurity, because you've got to be prepared at all times. You need to be ready for for the attack to come. But if you spend all your time sharpening your saber, which sounds really euphemistic, um if you spend all your time sharpening your saber at the uh at the camp, you're not going to have your artillery ready, your your your other things ready too. So it's a balancing act. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah, I've been collecting since high school, and I've got uh I think I'm sitting right now at about 120. Um hundred and twenty? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:14

It depends what does it equal in doll hairs?

SPEAKER_02 10:17

Uh um doesn't want to know. My wife, I will not say that on camera. Good point, good point. You know, I I mean, um I you know it's it's one of those things where I've been doing it for, yeah, what, 25 years now. So you things yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:35

It's it's and of course you bought a you bought load, they've they've invested, so now they're worth now.

SPEAKER_02 10:39

Well, and I also buy and sell, right?

SPEAKER_00 10:42

So I don't know what our cybersecurity analogy there is, but I do buy I think it's cyber programs tend to procrastinate until they have a an incident and then they try to do everything really fast. And that's more expensive. It's gonna be more expensive. You're probably not gonna use them all, you're not gonna even understand them all.

SPEAKER_02 11:00

Yeah, if uh right now the collection's probably sitting at 60,000, 70,000. That's amazing. But that's not what I paid for it because I bought them over time, and also I'd trade one to get another one. Uh now we're talking.

SPEAKER_01 11:12

This is this this is what I waited for.

Katana Craft And Foreign Steel

SPEAKER_02 11:15

So obviously the infamous katana, right? Japanese. Um, and this one in particular is one of my favorites. It is a um it's from the middle 1600s, uh, made by a maker named Kianobu. One of my favorite things about it is that it is made with what they call nanban tetsu, which is foreign or barbarian steel. So if have you guys watched Shogun? Yes. Yeah. So when the when the black ships came in, when the when the traders started arriving, the Dutch, they brought steel with them. They brought iron with them, um, that was in some ways superior to the Japanese iron. It was more pure, but um, but it didn't fit well in the way that the Japanese were used to working their iron. But it became very fashionable in the early and mid-1600s to have a sword that used this steel from from the from the barbarians that came to trade.

SPEAKER_00 12:21

And so the barbarians were the Europeans or the Mongolians?

SPEAKER_02 12:24

No, no, the Europeans. Um, Europeans are considered barbarians, um, which is great for me. Um and so they would they liked uh they they they liked to put the steel in it, would usually just be mixed with the Japanese steel, and honestly, it provides absolutely no value or tr change, it's just a part of the artistry of what happened, right? So um, when you draw a Japanese sword, you're going to it's it's got a collar that fits perfectly to the scabbard. So you pop it out with your thumb and that'll allow the sword to start to come out. You keep the back along the back of the scabbard because you don't want to rub the edge against the the scabbard that'll doll it. That's top of the bottom. What uh along the bottom. So I'm holding it along the bottom. And then when you pull it out, what you're looking at with a Japanese sword. Um, I talked about the differential hardening. So that's the uh wavy line that you can kind of see go down the sword, and we can get some better um image. What?

SPEAKER_00 13:28

Is it fruit time?

SPEAKER_02 13:28

Is this the one that we will we will not be cutting fruit with this? Um I I brought a I brought a replica for us to cut fruit with because uh because this one is um is my favorite. Um and so um yeah, so here. Uh please uh feel free to hold it. Um so these are called Minuki, and they are uh they're decorative. So um much like sharper. What? Much sharper. Oh yeah, this is very sharper.

SPEAKER_00 14:04

Um the the shave your beard.

SPEAKER_02 14:08

It will. The samurai um would uh they were not supposed to be ostentatious. That was not a, especially in the 1600s during that particular period. And so their their fittings on their swords were something that they were allowed to express themselves with. And so that was really the jewelry of the time. So these are made of shakudo, which is a mix of copper and gold, uh, and then they have gold inlay.

SPEAKER_00 14:40

So it's like the things our kids put on their crocs, essentially.

SPEAKER_02 14:43

Exactly, exactly, exactly. Only like thousands of dollars instead of uh so yeah, so there's your there's your true um antique. This is an actual samurai sword, would have been carried by a samurai. We know that because it's too long to have been carried legally by anybody else. So um, so there you go. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 15:34

Nice work. Well done. Paper towels. Bam! There you go. Good form. The form is good too. Thank you. So, yeah, there you go. Apples, oranges. Explain we're gonna put an orange on Aaron's head.

SPEAKER_00 16:03

That's gonna be awesome as logo.

SPEAKER_02 16:05

Yeah. There you go. I mean. You can play with that one if you want. That's uh more of a night sword. It does. Aaron's like Braveheart.

SPEAKER_00 16:15

All right.

Cutting Fruit And The Hesitation Lesson

SPEAKER_02 16:16

You guys have insurance, right? Um so so who who wants to cut first? Uh, you go first. Okay. Okay. So, Aaron, um when you do this, um, I would use one hand and I would aim right here on the watermelon. Okay. Okay. And what you actually want to do is make sure that you pull back and step through when you cut. Because I don't want um, because that's kind of where the power comes from, but you don't need as much power as you think. It's not about power. There it is.

SPEAKER_00 16:51

All right, Cody, give it a swing.

SPEAKER_01 16:54

All right, all right. Some of this can come through here. Nice.

SPEAKER_00 17:03

Clean, thin cut.

SPEAKER_02 17:04

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:07

Oh shit. And now I'm now I'm afraid.

SPEAKER_02 17:13

Yeah. Now now you've gotten all hesitant. Yeah, yeah. Which uh I'm sure there's a lesson in there too.

SPEAKER_00 17:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:19

About uh getting hesitant.

SPEAKER_00 17:21

Is that like um so like gun shy? Like I took a swing, it didn't work, so I didn't use my full potential.

SPEAKER_02 17:27

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So, you know, if you uh it has to be a sharp decisive action, but sometimes sharp decisive actions do result in in cuts to the uh cuts to the wood instead of what you want.

SPEAKER_01 17:44

Let me see, let me see the katana. Yeah, use the katana.

SPEAKER_02 17:51

Really, I just hadn't cut with this one and I wanted to. Let's see. Yeah, paper top. Nice! Very nice. Little little zas to just needed some.