Ep221: TrueSuccess Blueprint - Creating Greater Good & Financial Freedom: Leading with Purpose and Sustainability

How do you build a business that does good, and does well? In this episode, Mimi, John, and David discuss how Humanergy has balanced social impact with financial responsibility. They share real-world stories of choosing purpose over profit, and how financial freedom fuels long-term vision.

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Transcript

Mimi (00:10)
Welcome to the first episode of the TrueSuccess Blueprint. I'm Mimi, and today I'm joined by John Barrett and David Wheatley. As Humanergy celebrates 25 years of leadership development, we're exploring the first two of our eight TrueSuccess goals. Today, we'll talk about what it means to ensure the greater good in the world and how we've built financial security and freedom, not just for Humanergy, but for the people and the organizations we serve. So John, David.

What does the greater good mean to Humanergy and in our day-to-day work?

John (00:42)
Well, thanks Mimi. And so the way that I think of it is that it is a self-evident part of the world that we live in. And I always explain to people, you know, when you stop and think you are inherently part of the greater, you know, you have connections, you're interdependent, you know, your outputs are inputs for somebody else. What you do,

impacts other people, what they do impacts you. And so you're intimately tied. And so the question is, you don't have really have a choice to be part of the greater and not part of the greater, but you do have a choice, whether it's the greater good or the greater bad. so, you know, for me, it is the way that we have to think about things and that we naturally live. ⁓

One of my favorite quotes, it comes from the Dalai Lama and I don't know it word for word, but it's something that goes like this. It's something like, it's better to be wisely selfish than foolishly selfish. And the idea being is that when we're foolishly selfish, we're only thinking about ourselves, period. And we're ignoring all those connections. And that is foolish because

in denying that reality, actually end up at the end of the day, in trying to serve our own selfish purposes, we end up undermining our own benefit. Wisely selfish recognizes that we are connected, we are part of the greater. And so that the smartest thing that we can do in a sense in our own self-interest is to recognize the greater good and to invest our time, our energy.

our love into that reality and then reap the benefits from that. So this are my initial thoughts. ⁓

David (02:48)
Well, I think that the thing I'd pick up on is that interdependence and the fact that interdependence goes both laterally to the interconnections I have, but also somewhat temporally to the making sure I understand the future as well. So am I doing things that are short-sighted or am I doing things that are for the greater good in the long term? So that sustainable picture of interdependence too.

John (03:16)
Yeah, I really appreciate that call out. That's super important as well. ⁓ So I think your original question, Mimi, how do we live into that as an organization and then how does it part of our mission as in terms of the broader community that we serve?

Mimi (03:39)
and are day-to-day.

John (03:41)
Yeah. So I think one thing that immediately comes to mind is that whenever we have, you know, a major decision to make, or even even a smaller decision for that matter, and it's not like literally straight forward, ⁓ our compass, if you like, our North Star is always, you know, what's the greater good. ⁓

And that becomes the one question that we use ⁓ to really think through ⁓ who all is impacted by this decision and how do we get the net best impact ⁓ for that connected whole. So that's one thing that we do is it's ⁓ almost our daily, certainly weekly guide to

you know, decisions that we make. And, you know, when we get too far down a rabbit hole of, know, what if this or what if that or whatever, et cetera, we sort of come back to, okay, at the end of the day, you know, what's the greater good or sometimes we also use, you know, what's the win-win idea? Thoughts, Dave?

David (05:02)
I describe what you're talking about. We describe that usually as stakeholder mapping and the finding the greater good, the tool for finding it is a stakeholder map. I was just having a look episode, just had it there, episode 72 of the Humanergy Leadership Podcast. We go into the value of stakeholder mapping where you start to see who's connected and how to map that out. So I point people that way.

John (05:28)
Mm-hmm.

Mimi (05:30)
I would definitely add to that, ⁓ Humanergy seems to attract folks that are greater good focused both as employees and clients. whatever you've been doing for the last 25 years seems to be sticking.

John (05:48)
Well, I appreciate that, yeah.

David (05:51)
I assume that's a choice as well. Some of it is deliberate that there's some people that don't think that way and they are not going to mesh with the tools and the thinking that Humanergy uses with folks. If you do see that, ⁓ then this stuff's going to, our material is going to make you go, wow, this is exactly what I've been looking for and exactly the way I want to operate. again, that's understanding the interconnectedness and the

sustainability so that I'm not making short-term decisions that feel good right now but have long-term negative impact. So you get people thinking that way, it makes a difference. And that's really what this first one on our TrueSuccess is about is making a difference with the people we're interconnected with for the good.

Mimi (06:45)
I would almost say too that if somebody isn't necessarily great or good focused, some of the tools that we have and the way we operate in the world might start to feel uncomfortable in some ways.

John (06:59)
Mm-hmm.

Well, think what I will also add, obviously, you know, when we, when we connect with people and if people end up becoming part of our immediate Humanergy family or our extended family, there's a sort of a mutual self-selection process of, you know, a resonance of, you know, shared thinking and shared values, et cetera. And it is also true that, you know, with our clients that

the people that we partner with, not everybody is naturally in that place. And that's where I really go back to this idea of it's really, in my mind, it's built into the world that we live in, ⁓ this idea of greater good. that in, know, paying attention to that is actually the best way to be truly

successful. And so we also, in a sense, awaken or try to awaken people's sense of that and their better selves. And even the most, you know, hardcore business person, if you ask them the right questions and you help them think through the interdependence, maybe using a visual tool like Dave mentioned, the stakeholder map. ⁓

that reality becomes much more visible and compelling. And then suddenly it goes from being a question of, I a nice guy to am I a smart business person? And if I'm a smart business person, then taking care of this grader is actually an intelligent and thoughtful and ultimately more successful series of choices to make.

Mimi (08:59)
Selfishly wise.

John (09:01)
Yeah.

Mimi (09:06)
Okay, well, now I'm gonna switch gears a little bit and we're gonna talk about finance. We're gonna move on to a different one of Humanergy's TrueSuccess goals. ⁓ So the TrueSuccess goal is financial security and freedom. And I would like to know, was there ever a time that Humanergy had to choose between financial success and doing what's right? So this kind of poses the finance versus the greater good.

John (09:39)
I mean, I don't know if I can remember a specific, but I think in little medium and big ways, you know, there's been times when, I mean,

Like I can think of many, well actually at the beginning of our journey, know, at one point we'd received a prepayment of six figures for a year's worth of work. ⁓ And we got into it and probably a month or two later we get a

somewhat embarrassed phone call, which was essentially, hey, can we have our money back? ⁓ you know, that wasn't just like, okay, sure. We'll just, you know, write the check. was really pretty much every cent we had. ⁓ And so it was an almost as existential question for us in the sense of like, okay, well, that's sort of like everything. And

I don't think there was even a mention of, well, you know, can we not give it back to them? ⁓ It was really, ⁓ okay, we want to.

you know, partner with these people in the future. ⁓ What's the right thing to do? And it was not so much ⁓ if we did it, it was more, OK, how do we do it? How do we survive it? And, you know, when when when when can we do it as soon as possible? So the check went back and obviously 25 years later, we're still here to talk about it. And in fact, that

a particular client was a client and has been a client over the last 25 years. And so they have certainly invested ⁓ money in us far beyond the original amount. So that's a big example that came to mind, but I think we've run into those types of things. ⁓ I think we even run into it, for example, when we sort of took, you know, we have a profit sharing for our own team. ⁓

And I think that's another way of exemplifying and understanding and interest and investment in the greater good.

David (12:22)
It links the financial freedom to the greater good, doesn't it? That we try to model our financial structure to fit the greater good thinking. It will be real easy for, as an owner to cream off everything. But then when you realize that you've got people who are working really hard all year round and it's a matter of the only reason why we're being successful is because of this team. Then let's put a mechanism together that recognizes the team effort as well.

in achieving that success and that's that interdependence linked to the financial security. I think we've also made choices that have been kind of risky on that. I remember one client that I'd worked with at one place, he changed jobs and said, I'm gonna need some help out here. It was in LA, but I'm gonna need you to fly out for a week, a month.

for the next six months and you're on 120 day terms. Which means that basically that was four months before we'd see any of the money, including the flight expenses and things like that. And it's a matter of, okay, you know, if you're saying that you need this help and I've worked with you and we've built this relationship, I'm willing to take that risk. And it turned out very well for.

for us and I think they did well out of it and that person we continued to work with until he retired a few years ago. And so it's one of those that you sometimes take the gamble based on the relationship, which again ties the finances to that greater good perspective.

John (14:07)
Yeah, and actually, I can build on that, we talked about this, the greater in terms of the people that we're connected with. And they mentioned that there's also a time aspect, that those connections go through time. And so what we do today is connected to what we experience in the future. I think the other thing is that the components of what we call our TrueSuccess, like the greater good and finance are

intimately interdependent as well. And, you know, they it works both ways. You know, we've talked about how, ⁓ you know, being guided by the great good helps and has proven to help us, you know, in terms of financial, you know, independence and freedom and, and viability. ⁓ I think it's also fair to say it works the other way.

And so what I mean by that is, you know, if we aren't making any money and we can't pay our bills and our people can't pay the bills, then we have no basis to work in the space of greater good. And so, you know, it, it's just a natural reality that exists. so you find yourself paying attention to both. mean, the key word here is the word and, you know, it's

promote the greater good and have financial ⁓ freedom and ⁓ viability. ⁓

If you maximize one of those components, meaning you lose sight of one, right? And you say, okay, great, a good period, you know, then at some point you probably are going to go broke and you won't have an organization, you won't have a team and you won't have an ability to, you know, follow your mission. And then I would also ask, also offer that if you maximize the

financial piece, especially in just sort of short-term intervals, say what's the most I can get out of every single transaction? Absolutely. Then you will by definition, ⁓ impact your greater good. Cause then it becomes a win-lose in some way, shape or form. And again, going back to the idea of being, you know, wisely selfish, you may win today, you may win tomorrow, but you certainly won't win, you know,

downstream. So it's really the power of AND and it's optimizing those two things together.

Mimi (16:58)
Yeah, so for anyone listening, just the key takeaway there is none of these TrueSuccess goals work in isolation. They all work together.

John (17:08)
Yeah, absolutely.

And maybe if I can, mean, it's slightly off of script, but just to build on what you just said, because I think it's really, really important. ⁓ You know, we have eight components of our TrueSuccess. We're talking about two today. And one of the ways that we have tested that TrueSuccess is we say, you know, let's cover this one up or take it off.

What's the impact of that over time? And obviously if the impact wasn't anything, certainly not anything negative, then it's like, okay, why is it there? But if we look at each of the eight, if you take it off, then it becomes really and quickly apparent and compelling. It's like, wow, that needs to be there. Right.

So what if we didn't have greater good? What's the impact of that? What's the consequence? What if we didn't have financial viability? Well, we've probably got a lifespan of somewhere between three and six months, maybe, maybe some type of thing. So again, keeps on coming back to ⁓ this is not like an arbitrary choice. This is just how you need to lead a thriving and successful organization.

Mimi (18:43)
So speaking of thriving and successful organizations, how has Humanergy's thinking around financial freedom evolved over the last 25 years? Because that to me sounds like a thriving and successful organization.

David (18:58)
I'll pick up on this. I think when you do something for 25 years, it feels more stable now than it ever did before. And at the same time, for all of those 25 years, we've looked at what work we had potentially coming in and said, if all of this work comes in, we're screwed. And if none of this work comes in, we're screwed. So we have to find the balance of that work.

but it seems to have been more consistent to find that place which makes the stability and the ability to then share that progressively better. And there was a long, long time where we didn't make profit as such. We did all right, we got paid well, but there wasn't a lot of profit at the end of the day. And ⁓ then you calculated how many people do we need on the team to generate that? And then how do you pay that back in? So I think it's...

⁓ I'd say we've matured in how we look at it over those 25 years and we've become more comfortable with the insecurity of running a small boutique consulting company that you know it's got these ups and downs that can be impacted real quickly and easily. And whenever that happens, we come back to our TrueSuccess and start having a conversation with the team about what we need to do next.

John (20:23)
think one thing that comes to my mind to your question Mimi and then builds off what Dave was saying is I think initially when we started it was essentially it was Dave and I. So just being able to pay ourselves was great. It's like, yay us. ⁓ Now the organization has grown and as it has grown.

It opens doors if you like, in terms of like, you now need to think of this and you need to consider that. So what worked before isn't going to work going forward. So I think it would be fair to say that even though, you know, when we started, it was like, Hey, it would be awesome to make a profit. That's what you need to do. at least for me, what became apparent was, that to be healthy as an organization, you did, you do need to generate a surplus.

in order to make even better decisions, like, you know, either investing in your people in Humanergy or investing in your product or your services or, ⁓ you know, giving people ⁓ a peace of mind because you sort of have that, ⁓ you know, that safety margin, et cetera. And so it became a point that when profit went from being, that would be a good to have to that actually

is actually part of our TrueSuccess because it fuels or enables other elements of our success. ⁓ And not just in the organisation, but then ⁓ as we profit share it also enables people to be able to invest in things that matter to them in their personal lives as well. So I think that's one evolution, at least for me.

David (22:19)
think the only other piece I'd add to this is because I get asked this when people are talking about entrepreneurship and things like that, for those that aren't familiar with Humanergy's history, John and I both worked for a small part of a larger organization prior to Humanergy. For one reason or another, they were focusing back in on the large organization and shut us down. And so we started Humanergy literally the day later with

and I always say with three small clients that were carryover clients from the previous organization. And those three small clients were Kellogg's, Ford and Michigan State University. And so, you to start with that kind of primer, it never really felt like it was ⁓ financially awkward. Although there have been times when, you 2008, nine, there was a big challenge.

⁓ 2020 with when COVID hit you wondered what was going to happen to all the works. There have been times when it's felt like there's a lot of pressure. But to start, we were very blessed in the way that we started the organization and with the people that were willing to support us early on.

Mimi (23:33)
Great.

Thanks for listening to the first episode of the TrueSuccess Blueprint. We hope the conversation about creating greater good and financial freedom sparks some new ideas.

Remember, these goals do not stand alone. So be sure to tune into the full series to hear how all eight TrueSuccess goals work together to create lasting success. Thanks for coming.

John (23:55)
⁓ Thanks Mimi. Thanks David.