Ep231: From Ally to Changemaker with Megan Fuciarelli

Tired of polarized talk at work? Megan Fuciarelli maps a clear path forward. She and David unpack the Metamorphustice continuum, practical ways to move beyond allyship, and how leaders use curiosity, empathy, and direct communication to build trust and performance. We hit reflective prompts, real-world examples, and the business case for values-aligned DEI that boosts morale, retention, and results. 

Learn more about Humanergy's work: https://www.humanergy.com

Join the Humanergy community on LinkedIn.

Sign up for our FREE leadership workshops.

Transcript

David Wheatley – Humanergy
…and the dog barked right on cue. Welcome to the Humanergy Leadership Podcast. I’m your host, David Wheatley, and I’m joined today by Megan Fuciarelli. Megan’s a passionate human who believes change starts with self. She began as a teacher, later served as a school superintendent, and then launched US² after realizing social-justice conversations needed to be more deliberate and less polarizing. Don’t we need that right now?

Her TEDx talk and speaking around the world emphasize swapping guilt, shame, and blame for empathy and understanding. She’s also the dedicated parent of Reese, and that barking at the opening was, I believe, Gandhi. Is that right?

Megan Fuciarelli – US²
Yes, Gandhi it is. He is not happy because he’s used to being on my lap, David, and I decided today’s call would be just me.

David Wheatley – Humanergy
Good job I’ve got my headphones on. Otherwise Olive here would respond to Gandhi and we’d have a dog-off in the background.

Megan Fuciarelli – US²
Exactly. Maybe we need a podcast for dogs at some point. We’ll get there.

David Wheatley – Humanergy
Just barking at each other. Welcome, Megan. We’ve been circling each other for a while and recently I had the opportunity to read your book, which we’ll come to in a minute. It’s timely and appropriate for the conversation today. I did the quick bio off the book jacket. What’s the additional 30-second bio you’d share with listeners?

Megan Fuciarelli – US²
Honestly, that summarizes what I do and who I am. I’m passionate and dedicated to having tough conversations. In today’s socio-political climate, I’m having more of them. I’ve committed this year to 50 stages in 2025. That includes virtual, in-person, and podcast audiences. We need to keep these conversations going.

David Wheatley – Humanergy
That’s why this felt relevant. The more I work with people, the more I hear, we can’t talk about politics or certain topics at work. I still believe most people are 90 percent aligned. We get hooked on the 10 percent, and because that 10 percent is polarized, it’s even harder to talk about the 90.

Megan Fuciarelli – US²
That’s a good point. When we think about diversity, we often focus on differences, that 10 percent, instead of the similarities and how that 10 percent can add to an organization or a social circle. It would be boring if everyone were just like us. People watch shows outside their own experience because they want other perspectives, but with real people we don’t always lean in. It feels safer behind a screen. My mission is to encourage conversations in real time with real people, without guilt, shame, or blame.

David Wheatley – Humanergy
I’ve been saying there are two dramatic shortages in America: critical thinking and curiosity. Curiosity connects to your book, Metamorphustice. I can’t complain about the name because I named a company Humanergy. Give us an overview of Metamorphustice.

Megan Fuciarelli – US²
Curiosity is key. The book is the first of a seven-book series. Book one introduces the continuum of Metamorphustice. Like Humanergy, it’s a juxtaposition of words: the metamorphosis of justice. Think metamorphosis. A caterpillar becomes a butterfly and can’t go back. It can lay eggs for the next generation, but it doesn’t revert. In social justice reform, we need to be those butterflies. Keep moving forward and invest in the next generation, perpetuating values like curiosity, conversation, and courage.

We outline seven stages in the continuum and include self-reflection prompts. That’s a big part of the feedback we’ve gotten. US² stands for Understand Self, Unite Society. We have to understand ourselves before we work on our organizations or others. Too often we point the finger instead of looking in the mirror. The prompts help readers reflect first, then we offer actionable steps for organizations and society.

David Wheatley – Humanergy
One of my favorite quotes from college is that the longest journey is the journey inward. That’s what you’re pushing. When I read your seven steps, I was surprised to see ally as step four, with three more steps after that. Walk us through the seven stages.

Megan Fuciarelli – US²
I’ll be brief.

1. Oblivious. We don’t know what we don’t know. I grew up in a homogenous environment with little exposure to different cultures and identities. No ill will, just isolation and lack of representation. Often younger people are here.
2. Defensive. Lots of extreme emotion and polarization on either end of the spectrum. Anger, distrust, disbelief, or even deep sadness. That intensity is the marker.
3. Savior. This was me for a long time. As a teacher, I wanted to save the world. It sounds noble, but if you believe you can save someone, you’re inherently putting yourself above them.
4. Ally. You care about others, but it’s sympathy oriented. You might drop a care emoji or send a supportive text. We all need allies, but there’s more beyond that.
5. Advocate. You build empathy and understanding and start speaking up. The caution is you can end up speaking for people, sometimes without permission.
6. Co-conspirator. Credit here to Ibram Kendi’s anti-racist framing. You step in to stop harm in real time. It’s still reactive.
7. Change maker. You move from reactive to proactive. You look at your workplace, family, and social circles through a lens of inclusion, equity, and diversity, seeing issues before they hurt people so everyone is seen, heard, welcomed, and valued.

David Wheatley – Humanergy
That impressed me because it says we don’t stop. It’s an ongoing journey of learning.

Megan Fuciarelli – US²
I’m a recovering checkbox person. I used to write things on my list after I’d done them just to check them off. This isn’t that. Transformation is never complete. New dimensions and lived experiences keep emerging.

David Wheatley – Humanergy
Is there a fine line between advocate and savior?

Megan Fuciarelli – US²
Absolutely. A savior wants to rescue but doesn’t necessarily work to change conditions. For example, volunteering at an orphanage or adopting from another country without addressing root causes. An advocate speaks up about the why and brings awareness so others can understand and support change.

David Wheatley – Humanergy
I appreciated that subtlety. The reflection prompts made me realize I might be in different places on different days. Even though you say we don’t go backwards, sometimes I feel like I’m not as far along as I thought.

Megan Fuciarelli – US²
And it varies by identity. Someone might be a changemaker around sex or binary gender, but oblivious about religion or gender identity. You can be in different stages for different identities. Some people are more insulated. No one is a changemaker in all areas. There are days my heart is heavy and I don’t have the time to be a changemaker. I might donate, which is more savior. The key is awareness, so you don’t stay there too long. Sometimes I get angry and slip into defensive. The awareness helps you move forward again.

David Wheatley – Humanergy
So it’s not bad to recognize you don’t have the energy today and choose a smaller supportive action, then push yourself further tomorrow.

Megan Fuciarelli – US²
Exactly. Eliminate shame and blame. Know where you are so it doesn’t become a pattern. It’s fine to be an ally sometimes. Maybe you only have time to acknowledge someone’s post to let them know you see them. That doesn’t make you a bad person. It’s an honest reflection of your capacity in that moment.

David Wheatley – Humanergy
That reminds me of when we moved back to England with our four-year-old. We were in a corner shop run by a Sikh gentleman near my parents’ house. Our child asked, “Why is that man wearing that hat?” My instinct was to hush the question. Fortunately, my wife is more aware and said, “I don’t know. Why don’t you ask him?” It led to one of the most enlightening conversations I’ve had about being Sikh. A child’s curiosity is innocent and open, and the gentleman was willing to share.

Megan Fuciarelli – US²
I love that. Growing up, my parents taught me not to look or to draw attention to someone who was different because it was rude. If someone entered using a mobility device, I’d be curious but tried not to look. They were trying to be respectful, and we teach what we were taught until we’re taught otherwise. Once we know better, we do better. With my child, I say, if you have a question, don’t ask me, ask them. As adults, we’re told to Google it and not ask questions. Then we whisper questions to a colleague, which is actually ruder. We’ve mislabeled curiosity as nosiness. It’s not. We should stop making curiosity a negative.

David Wheatley – Humanergy
At Humanergy we talk about caring, honest, and direct communication. I’ve been reading Jeffrey Wetzler’s book Ask, and he talks about the curiosity curve. People should look that up. We need to be more curious and keep evolving from caterpillars to butterflies.

Megan Fuciarelli – US²
Love that.

David Wheatley – Humanergy
This is a leadership podcast for Humanergy’s clients. How can leaders use your concepts to deliver better results, which is what they’re measured on?

Megan Fuciarelli – US²
First, awareness. Understand your own biases and assumptions about people or groups. Whether we realize it or not, we communicate based on our perceptions. With awareness and humility, we can ask, is my perception accurate? Let people tell us how they want to be treated and how we can best serve them. I believe in servant leadership.

Second, wisdom, which is education. Once you spot a gap, seek programs and learning to close it. Humanergy offers many that bridge those gaps.

Third, empowerment. Leaders should empower their teams and clients to step into their own power. Leadership isn’t the only source of power. When we empower others, performance rises.

David Wheatley – Humanergy
And the research shows leading that way improves the bottom line.

Megan Fuciarelli – US²
Absolutely. My second book, coming soon, covers the ROI of DEI. Despite today’s climate and fear of backlash, when organizations lean in and align this work with their values, not as a side initiative, they see gains in profitability, productivity, morale, and retention. When people are seen, heard, welcomed, and valued, results improve.

David Wheatley – Humanergy
Great place to wrap. Where can people find your work and Metamorphustice?

Megan Fuciarelli – US²
On social media: @Us2Consulting or @MeganFuciarelli on Facebook, Instagram, and LinkedIn. Websites are Us2Consulting.com and MeganFuciarelli.com. The book is available on Amazon, Walmart, Barnes & Noble, Target, and more.

David Wheatley – Humanergy
I always encourage people to order from a local bookshop first.

Megan Fuciarelli – US²
We have a handful of local bookstores that carry it. Email me and I’ll let you know if there’s one in your area. If not, I can point you to online options or you can order directly from our site.

David Wheatley – Humanergy
If you’re a regular at Humanergy’s First Friday sessions, you may see Megan there as a frequent attendee who jumps in with great observations. Megan, thanks for sharing and for spending time with us.

Megan Fuciarelli – US²
Thanks for having me, David. Great conversation.

David Wheatley – Humanergy
Thanks.