Exploration Local
Come journey with us as we explore and highlight the people and places that make the Blue Ridge and Southern Appalachian Mountains special and unique. We explore the towns, trails, rivers, scenic byways, businesses, and people that fuel the life & adventurous spirit in these mountains. Listen in on this relaxed conversational style podcast as host Mike Andress interviews Authors, Business Owners, Photographers, Athletes, Adventurers, Travelers and Friends who have a deep connection to the outdoors and directly influence the culture of the Blue Ridge. We’ll even explore the many ways nature & the outdoors can positivity influence our health and well being.
Exploration Local
20 Years of Adventure: How Tom Dempsey and SylvanSport are Revolutionizing Camping
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
For two decades, SylvanSport has been at the forefront of transforming outdoor adventures, redefining what it means to camp and explore the great outdoors. Founded by visionary Tom Dempsey, SylvanSport has combined innovation with a deep passion for nature, creating versatile and sustainable outdoor gear that has revolutionized the way we camp. As we celebrate 20 years of SylvanSport, we look back on the journey that brought this pioneering company to where it is today, and how Tom Dempsey’s vision has forever changed the camping experience.
Tom takes us on a journey from his Appalachian Trail roots to his industrial design education at Auburn University and his pivotal roles at Coleman, Perception Kayaks, and Liquid Logic. Hear first-hand how his experiences have shaped Sylvan Sport’s revolutionary designs, making camping accessible and enjoyable for everyone, even with small vehicles.
This episode is a tribute to innovation, community, and the lasting impact of outdoor adventures. Don’t miss this celebration of Sylvan Sport's journey and its unwavering commitment to making outdoor experiences unforgettable.
Mike Andress
Host, Exploration Local
828-551-9065
mike@explorationlocal.com
Podcast Website
Facebook
Instagram: explorationlocal
Celebrating Sylvan Sport's Outdoor Innovation
Speaker 1Joining me as I sit down with Tom Dempsey, the visionary founder of Sylvan Sport, to celebrate 20 years of groundbreaking innovation in outdoor recreation. Tom's journey from the Appalachian Trail to the forefront of the outdoor industry is filled with passion and creativity. We'll explore how Sylvan Sport's trailers, renowned for their lightweight, versatility and unique design elements, are redefining the modern camping experience, and we'll dive into the evolution of their product line, from the iconic Go trailer to the spacious Vast to the versatile Loft series. And we'll talk about camping gear, accessories and more. We'll also hear about the challenges and triumphs along the way. Tom also shares insights on the rise of Western North Carolina as a hub for outdoor adventure and the vital role of community and family in driving Sildon Sports' mission. Outdoor adventure and the vital role of community and family in driving Sylvan Sports' mission. This episode is a tribute to the power of innovation and the enduring impact of outdoor experiences and to Sylvan Sports' unwavering commitment to enhancing the way that we connect with nature. You're really going to love this episode. I can't wait for you to hear it. I'll see you on the other side. I'll see you on the other side.
Speaker 1You're listening to Exploration Local, a podcast designed to explore and celebrate the people and places that make the Blue Ridge and Southern Appalachian Mountains special and unique. My name is Mike Andrus, the host of Exploration Local. Join us on our journey to explore these mountains and discover how they fuel a spirit of adventure. We encourage you to wander far, but explore local. Let's go. Well, tom, I can't thank you enough for making the drive over from Cedar Mountain over here to Hendersonville. I can't wait to dive in and talk all things Sylvan Sport, especially as you all are entering your 20th anniversary. Thank you for making the drive and thanks for being on the show.
Speaker 2Oh, I'm happy to be here, Mike. Thank you so much for the opportunity.
Speaker 1Absolutely, tom. You have been a guiding light and really an undeniable influence in the outdoor industry just in general. And so what I would love to do for our listeners that may not be right here in Western North Carolina and they're really literally all over the United States, and so they may not know who Sylvan Sport is, they may not know who Tom Dempsey is, but they're going to know by the time we get done with this episode today. But to set the stage, I would love to just kind of talk a little bit about your background. You were doing things far before you got to Sylvan Sport. So let's start there, let's talk a little bit about your background, a little bit of the history, and then we'll talk about what got you into Sylvan Sport.
Speaker 2I grew up in sight distance from the Appalachian Trail in central Pennsylvania Well, eastern east central Pennsylvania over there where the AT runs. So as a young kid I was always up there and trying to lure my friends to go up there with me every chance I got and, you know, fell in love with the outdoors at an early age. I went to Auburn University, studied industrial design and really have enjoyed the last 30 some odd years of applying industrial design to the outdoor gear world, so it's I can't think of a more fun way to have spent all these years. I started my professional career with the Coleman company my first real job after college as a product designer, and I was working on Coleman pop-up campers at the time and I remember thinking this is a product that I personally wouldn't really need or use, but it was an amazing company and phenomenal people and I learned so much and really never looked back from that first opportunity.
Speaker 1Our very first camper as a family was in 1997. I think it was an eight-foot box. It was a Coleman camper. We happened to put an air conditioning unit on it. That was our very first family experiences in that Coleman camper. So we had it for many, many years.
Speaker 2That's awesome. Love to hear it, yeah.
Speaker 1So then you transitioned into sort of the kayak world. Was did you go right from that into perception kayaks?
Speaker 2Well, while I was working at Coleman. So again you know first job out of college, early twenties. So again you know first job out of college, early 20s. I'm in Somerset Pennsylvania, which was a beautiful small town in western Pennsylvania.
Speaker 2I kind of had a life experience that taught me how short life can be and that you have to do things now, and the result of that was I always, I think, my DNA I'm an entrepreneur. So, despite the fact that I really enjoyed my job there, I left on great terms. My boss actually invested in the company I was leaving to start, which was a pretty good sign, and so I tried my first hand at being an entrepreneur, moved to Huntsville, alabama, with a college friend. We started a company to design some very innovative medical products that we had conceived while we were in school. That was a tremendous experience. I think we spent about five years from startup to when we sold this company, and it was, you know, the equivalent of like five MBAs.
Speaker 1Wow.
Speaker 2And just a tremendous amount of experience. We didn't know anything when we started about running a business and learned it all on the fly. You know, classic school of hard knocks.
Speaker 1Sometimes that's the best.
Speaker 2It ended up being so great and then really from that experience, I considered myself unemployable because I thought, you know, I am now fully bitten by the entrepreneurial bug. I don't think I can work at a regular job again and be as excited. But lo and behold, bill Masters, who owned Perception Kayaks, offered a job to me to lead his design team, which honestly, was too good of an opportunity to turn down. So I moved to South Carolina, the upstate of South Carolina, and dug in and had a couple of more phenomenal, great years of fun with the team at Perception and getting to lead the way on designing dozens and dozens of new kayaks and accessories and gear and components and really a blast. And that led to business changes. At that, bill sold the company. It led to kind of a wide open opportunity to start another kayak company. So why not combine that early entrepreneurial drive with that wide open opportunity to start another kayak company? So why not combine that early entrepreneurial drive with that wide open opportunity? And that led to the creation of Liquid Logic Kayaks.
Speaker 2And I did that for about four years and then really saw this opportunity. That was this crossroads that became Sylvan Sports. So that's what we'll dive into here more in a moment.
Speaker 1We were talking when we were doing the tour, right about the time that you were launching Liquid Logic Kayaks. I remember telling you the story of being at the Quarry Rapid on the NOC and just kind of parked on the side of the road and just wondered these unbranded boats, what in the world was this? And you had pointed to a boat in the corner and yeah, it was blue. I don't know what the name of the color blue was, but that definitely got my attention then and you know, interestingly, we'll definitely want to jump into the Sylvan Sport In 2013,. When we moved here as a family, I remember being in Brevard and one of your trailers went by. Somebody was towing one of your trailers. It was the most unique thing that I had seen at the time.
Speaker 2Well, that's really cool to hear that you saw an early Sylvan Sport go on the road. Yeah, it's funny. That makes me think I was in the earliest of Liquid Logic days. Woody Calloway and I were on our way somewhere I can't remember, but we were riding in the car together and we saw a Liquid Logic boat on top of someone else's car, and it was the first person we didn't know.
Speaker 1Really, and so we were like it's somebody we don't know, that's great.
Speaker 2First person we didn't know, and so we were like it's somebody we don't know. They bought one of our boats because everybody prior to that, you know, actually was were folks that we knew Right, and so that was kind of a milestone moment. And same at Sylvan Sport, when we first saw the, or when we saw the first go on the road that we didn't know the owner. We're like, oh my gosh, a stranger has bought one of our products. It's such a great feeling.
Speaker 1That's awesome.
Speaker 2It's like, okay, we must be on the right track.
Trailblazing Camping Innovations at Sylvan Sport
Speaker 1Yeah, yeah, that's great. Well, it definitely is unique and it grabs your attention, and so let's kind of dive into that a little bit. Let's talk about some of the products that you have, and you do have this a couple of new products that have launched just as recent as a couple of weeks ago, I guess officially, you did a live stream and also had people at the plant. But, yeah, let's unpack the products that you have. What makes up the products? The camping products at Sylvan Sport.
Speaker 2Well, it all started with the Sylvan Sport Go and around the year, I guess, 2004, 20 years ago I saw this opportunity where the adventure sports world and active sports world kayakers, mountain bikers, you know folks that were participating in active sports were looking for something to camp in and carry gear. I mean, the RV industry didn't have anything that appealed to you know kind of our crowd. So I thought, what if we reinvent the pop-up camper and start literally from the wheels up? So part number 00001 of the go are the actual wheels.
Speaker 1Wow.
Speaker 2And at the time there weren't any wheels available off the shelf that met our needs, so we actually designed our first original wheels from scratch which is crazy, I mean who does that.
Speaker 2So, again, more lessons learned. The overall reasoning behind it, though, was, you know, again, to reinvent the entry-level RV and make it something I used to say take it out of the RV dealership and put it in the REI world, so something along the lines that would be appealing to gear savvy cyclists and boaters and that type of customer, and so one of the primary needs was to carry lots of stuff, because, at the time, rvers, we did a lot of detailed homework. 85% of people that went camping were camping in order to facilitate some other activity. They weren't just going to sit around in a camper. So we dug in and found out what do you want to bring, and it was bikes and kayaks, and so we created this product that was versatile and it could carry lots of gear. It could be really comfortable at your destination.
Speaker 2It addressed a lot of the complexities that came along with an RV and got rid of them. You know, seeking sort of an ultra simplicity. It was really well made, so it didn't have the quality or fear of breaking down type issues you know that you would have. So, really, just looking at all the negatives that come along with towing a trailer and trying to design them out of it using our good design skills background. So what we ended up with at Sylvan Sport was the Go Camper flagship first product, and some of its design characteristics were that it was multifunctional, so one product wasn't going to sit in your yard for 11 and a half months of the year waiting for your two-week vacation.
Speaker 2It was going to fit into your yard for 11 and a half months of the year waiting for your two-week vacation. It was going to fit into your weekly life and be much more useful, and that philosophy is one of the tenets that have carried through all of our products since the Go. So over the 20 years we've added a lot of accessories and components to the Go. We then came out with the Go Easy, which was a smaller, really convenient gear hauling trailer. Recently we came out with a vast travel trailer.
Speaker 2We've got lots of products that go along with kind of the camping lifestyle, from camp kitchens to sleeping systems and lighting and other shelters like our Gozebo. But the thread that winds through all of our products are that in an age now where you can borrow or rent things for occasional use pretty easily, what makes a product compelling enough to actually want to own it? And that is it's got to truly provide a lot of utility and function on a frequent basis, and that's one of our hallmarks. Function on a frequent basis, and that's one of our hallmarks. Another one is if we're going to use resources to create an artifact, if you will, we want to put those resources to the highest use. We want to make them last as long as possible. I mean, there's go owners who have given their goes to the next generation and their family like pass them down.
Speaker 2So, it's also super gratifying to have seen our earliest goes that we produced back in the factory, where the owners come by for a visit, and these you know 18 year old goes are still functioning perfectly well, so that's something where we're proud of it. It sometimes can make for a difficult business when we had one customer that said you know you'd sell a lot more of these things if they didn't last forever. So we get it, but I don't think we would be happy with any alternative.
Speaker 1No, it seems to kind of fit with the ethos of building something that's sustainable and something that, as you said, it has multi-uses and multi-functions. This is really, really interesting because you're getting this camping trailer but then you also have it as a utility where you have on there. You can fit one washer, you can fit two washers, you could fit all of these things that are everyday life, and ever since Monday I haven't really kind of been able to get that out of my head. And it really does make a lot of sense if it's hauling mulch, if it's just hauling a motorcycle hauling gear, just hauling anything that, as you say, I might not be camping every weekend, but I could probably be using this trailer.
Speaker 2You nailed it. I mean, we used to say we turn a Prius into a pickup truck because you know it does. It allows the smallest of tow vehicle to turn into a utility vehicle as needed and then go back to being a nice fuel efficient tow vehicle.
Speaker 2So I think when we look at the span of the 20 years we've definitely changed the trajectory of the RV industry. Early on I think maybe we were a little too ahead of the curve where people didn't really understand what we were doing and why. Peter Metcalf's a good friend of mine. He's the founder of Black Diamond Equipment out in Utah.
Speaker 2A good friend of mine, he's the founder of Black Diamond Equipment out in Utah and when we introduced the Go to the public at a show out there he was one of the first people to see it and he told me. He described his reaction to me and I'll never forget it. He said that reminds me of the old buffalo hunter out on the plains who saw a buffalo at a thousand yards and he, you know, put his finger up in the air and threw some dirt and sampled it and then aimed his rifle, you know, like seven degrees up and three degrees to the left, and pulled the trigger and then set the rifle down and then watch the buffalo fall. He he's like that's how far ahead of the curve you guys are on this thing.
Speaker 1Wow, that's poignant.
Innovative Trends in Outdoor Camping
Speaker 2He's like that is a thousand-yard rifle shot out into the future. So at the time I thought, wow, that's a cool thing to say. But then over the years I understood what the business reality of that meant and it meant that it took a lot of educating for us to kind of share with folks what we were really trying to accomplish. So that was a bit of a challenge in the early days. But as the marketplace evolved and generations started to shift, kind of the way they enjoy the outdoors and the realities that we saw emerging years ago started to become more mainstream.
Speaker 2So, for example, a couple of those are with the high popularity of camping and all outdoor pursuits in general. That means that places traditional places for camping are overcrowded so people want to find new places and that means that campers have to be self-sufficient or provide all the needs without being in a traditional campground. It means that people are going to push the boundaries of season so they're not going to camp in the traditional summer months when it's most crowded. They're going to do off-season or even mid-winter camping. We have folks that go out in January in the snow. So our products need to accommodate those and it helps to essentially allow everybody to have opportunities to access these things, and maybe not in the most crowded places and the most crowded times of the year.
Speaker 1And is that what ended up leading more towards the GOAT? So we have the GOAT, we have those elements and then the GOAT, the G-O-A-T that recently launched and that really seems like that checks that box of being able to get you out and about in areas that you might not be accessible with the normal GOAT. I don't know if that's correct to say.
Speaker 2No, that's a great, great point. The GO is pretty darn capable of getting most places, but the GO takes it up just that extra level. Yeah, and it's for the overlander that has a tow rig. That is commensurate, you know, off-road capable. There's not too many places a traditional GO can't get to. The GO will check the final boxes on that. But yeah, it does speak to the trend that people want to be able to not be reliant upon, you know, the traditional campground with their trailer. They want to be able to go where they are. And then also things like the emergence of, you know, hip camp, harvest, host type places where private landowners may be accommodating folks and campers, you know. So you have a huge variety of conditions where you're going to camp and provisions available, so being as self-sufficient as possible, it gives you that peace of mind that I can pretty much handle anything that I find out there.
Speaker 1Some of the things that are very unique about this. It's light, it's super light. So, as you said, you know, talk about a Prius. A Prius can actually pull this. A smaller car can pull your trailers, but then there's so many different configurations in this as well, and there's so many different little accessories that you can add on. You really have thought about a lot. I mean the whole box, the roto molded box, the plastic box up front. A lot of things in this just makes sense and, as you said, when you're coming from it from an outdoor perspective and how I'm going to use this in the outdoors, a lot of those elements seem to kind of come into play with the whole design again and the multifunctionality of these trailers. But when you look at them for somebody who hasn't seen them and hopefully they will now they'll go to your website and they'll begin to take a deeper dive. What are some of those design elements that really make this stand out other than it just being a pop-up trailer? Tom?
Speaker 2Well, so the objectives were, you know, analyzing how a trailer is used and you know, and trying to design all the negatives out of it to the extent possible. The first thing I found as a toer of trailers and honestly this sounds kind of funny, but I tell folks, part of the inspiration to create the go is I kind of hate trailers, you know. So it's like, why do I hate them? Well, the first thing I want to do when I attach a trailer to my vehicle is finish towing it somewhere and get it off the vehicle.
Speaker 1Right.
Speaker 2So, naturally, making it lightweight is number one, and even a step further beyond that is making it attach and detach from the vehicle very securely, very obviously, so that you know. I think some of the negativity with a traditional trailer is the uncertainty have I connected this right? Is everything going to stay where it is? Am I going to be safe on the road, that type of thing. So we sought the world over and found this really remarkable hitch design from a German company that's sold in Europe and we partnered with them to tool it for US sizes and they did exclusively for us. Partnered with them to tool it for US sizes and they did exclusively for us.
Speaker 2So we use this hitch that lets folks know visually like yep, it's connected properly. It's super easy to do One push button and you put it on same button, you take it off. Then we made the Go Camper super lightweight, so the impact on towing is minimal. You know, and I also tell people, one of the challenges in towing a go is remembering that you're towing a trailer because, you won't feel it.
Speaker 2It's so light that it almost does not impact. You know the feeling of driving like most trailers do. But the lightweight materials also. If you kind of visually think with me about a go, it's got this tubular aluminum TIG welded frame that is inspired by a mountain bike. It's got these high density polyethylene components that are made the same way a kayak is made. I mean it's made out of familiar materials and processes to outdoor adventure folks.
Speaker 2So it's like it speaks the language that we're already working in in that space. But there's so many subtle details that I could probably talk for half an hour or more on. I mean one is when you put the go into transport mode. We needed some panels that and as is the case with everything on the go, every single component, it seems, has like three functions at minimum Panels that support the beds when it's in camping mode, also support the frame when it's in what we call transport mode, and that's the mode where you could load motorcycles or ATVs on the deck, or bicycles large cargo. So instead of having that just be a solid flat panel, which would be the obvious solution, we said, well, let's make it this super lightweight aluminum framework so that there's no lateral wind load. If you're driving in a heavy crosswind, you know the trailer doesn't get blown around like most traditional box trailers do In addition to the wind, it also lets you still see completely clearly from your interior rearview mirror.
Speaker 2Again, most trailers of that nature would be blocking the view out the back of the vehicle, and so just trying to take into account a lot of things that would give folks towing the trailer especially first-time towers or first-time RVers just a higher degree of comfort with the product and less things to worry about, less of a lengthy checklist that a traditional RV might require.
Speaker 1So let's go back a little bit in time. At what point did you really begin to see the market take off? People are getting this. People appreciate what it is that we're putting out in the market.
Evolution of Camping Trailers
Speaker 2Yeah, great question at Sylvan Sports' earliest foundation. I never intended it to be just a single product. I always envisioned it to be the beginning of an ecosystem the beginning of evolving the industry towards lighter, simpler, greater fuel economy.
Speaker 2You know a whole host of objectives, so the go is the first step in that. I guess when you know initially we had these great ideas for accessories, but when you've only got maybe 20 goes that you've sold out there, you know 5% of the owners want this accessory, you don't have a very big market. So after we started getting the numbers up with the number of goes out there, that's when the fun really began, because it's like, okay, now we have a new idea of something to add to it or to modify or to change, and there's enough of them out there that if just a small percentage of folks think like we do, then we're going to have enough to make these. And also just the cumulative hundreds and hundreds, if not thousands, of nights camped in a go and traveled hundreds of thousands of miles, traveled and tested world over, just gives us more and more experience and ideas. And that is the fun part as a product designer to continue to get excited about new innovation and new opportunities. So yeah, get excited about new innovation and new opportunities.
Speaker 1And then from the GO trailer. When did you start to kind of get into the VAST trailer? Because it is as you say in your marketing it's vastly different and it is. It's an amazing product.
Speaker 2Well, the objective with the GO was to reinvent the pop-up camper, and so when we look at pop-up campers, you know it's a pretty small niche within the overall RV industry. Total RV units sold in North America is roughly in the half million unit category and pop-up campers make up about 20,000 of those half million. So we said, all right, we've now, you know, had over 15 years of experience in in the entry level segment of the RV industry and the reinvention of that. Let's take what we've learned and let's do the same thing to the travel trailer space, which is a much bigger space, and I liken our evolution very much to the original Coleman Company. So when I went to work for the Coleman Company it was at the end of the ownership of the Coleman family.
Speaker 2And if you think back a couple of generations, maybe to our grandparents' generation, arguably the Coleman Company made everything from lanterns to sleeping bags, to stoves to coolers every imaginable thing you needed to enjoy the outdoors.
Speaker 2And people could begin their enjoyment of the outdoors with the most basic of products and as they grew and their family grew and they had more kids, they could move into a Coleman pop-up camper and then they would in the traditional RV industry. They would then move into perhaps a travel trailer and then they might retire and buy a motor home. So what Sylvan Sport is just doing is resetting those dials for the current generations, you know, in other words, we've created the stuff to get into the outdoors easily and to enjoy it conveniently and take a lot of the old school hassle out of camping. And now we, with the VAST it's an evolution into, you know, the next steps for our customers and the next steps for us. And it's really neat to see, because we have a lot of go owners who have upgraded to Avast and, interestingly enough, they're really reluctant to part with their goes so far. Yeah, even though we do have a trade-in offer, they don't want to do it.
Speaker 1Well, that's interesting. So let's talk about that a little bit for somebody who hasn't seen it, because it really is incredibly unique. I think the first time I saw it was a couple of years ago at the Outdoor Economy Conference, and a couple of things that really sort of got my attention was it's one thing if you have a smaller camper and then you feel like you constantly have to make the bed up or you have to put the seats back so it can become now a table, and this is so unique because it actually just raises up. It's like this loft that comes out of the ceiling and you can leave everything, the side windows that open up, the back that opens up. I mean, it's a really unique product, tom.
Speaker 2Well, thanks, yeah, and you've recognized a few of the things we really set out intentionally to create. We listened to our customers and our go owners said what they love about camping in a go is that they feel like they're camping.
Speaker 2They're not closed inside of an RV. We also know that carrying gear is of paramount importance and taking good care of it. So if you've got a $5,000 set of mountain bikes, you want to make sure that they're transported with the utmost of care. Mountain bikes you want to make sure that they're transported with the utmost of care. So the vast versatility starts with the interior spaces kind of reconfigure into a pretty generous cargo trailer to get all your gear where you're going.
Speaker 2And what I love about it is nothing has to be unloaded to use everything. So if you slide the lounge forward and the bed is up, you have this very large space for cargo in the back. It'll fit a couple of mountain bikes and all kinds of gear, even kayaks, inside, when, if you're stopping along the journey for lunch or a quick overnight, you don't have to unload everything. Everything's fully usable. You just have a little bit less floor space and then, when you do get to your destination, you can open everything up. We've got these two giant windows that we had custom tooled for us. They're the largest acrylic double pane windows ever made in the RV industry Wow.
Speaker 2And so they're kind of located right at the bed lounge area and if the weather's cooperative you are fully camping. You're thoroughly enjoying the outdoors. But the neat thing is if the weather turns ugly you close those windows down and you're nice and secure inside this incredibly well-insulated, climate-efficient environment that's got beautiful lighting and nice, cushyy, comfy lounge to sink into. I think. In a nutshell, we try to pack the features of like a 25 foot travel trailer into like a 15 foot box. So two queen-size beds, gigantic bathroom and shower.
Speaker 2You know, the the other kind of hallmark of our design is this multifunctionality. So the Vast's kitchen is completely usable inside, conveniently, and with the touch of a button it slides outside. The whole thing can be used outside and, again, sort of worry-free, it's all made of stainless steel, so if you leave it outside in the rain it's not going to get hurt and you know. Again, thinking through the actual use, I guess the hallmark of a good industrial design and I remember this from my earliest education is you know, the first thing you have to do is become an expert user of the product you're trying to design.
Speaker 2So if I was going to design a sewing machine, I would spend countless hours learning to sew to the best of my abilities, and you know you put it through as many paces as possible, and it's only natural and fun that in the outdoor industry we need to do all that stuff, that's right. So we definitely apply our experiences to our products.
Speaker 1Yeah, and you were sharing with me just recently the trip that you took up to Virginia to some really unique places, and it was sort of this R&D model that I don't know if that's the right way to say it, but obviously you come from the outdoors, you're in it, you're an influencer, but you're still in your unit. You own this company and you're still in it, out there camping and trying to figure out what's the next iteration or improvement.
Speaker 2I sometimes feel guilty about that. I'm like I'm using the company products. I'm like, no, it does. It feels too good to be true. You know to be out. I love using our products. It's so much fun. And then I also love, you know, taking all kinds of other companies' products and trying to use them with our products to kind of push the boundaries. So, yeah, I couldn't enjoy it more, so to kind of push the boundaries. So I couldn't enjoy it more.
Speaker 1Well, I saw one rolling down the road the other day and it was unique because it's the first time I've ever seen a travel trailer like this. You can actually put your boats on the outside. So they had the racks that were on the outside. They were coming right down 280, right out of Brevard, so you can't miss it.
Speaker 2Well, that was another challenge. Well, that was another challenge. So we honestly worked on that design for a number of years, back in the 2000 teens, and I remember we had a variety of different concepts. We were trying to hone in on what to do, and so I put a small notebook and a pen in my backpack actually my Sylvan Sport backpack and got on the bike and went into DuPont for a ride and for me, riding solo is kind of like being in the shower, it's the most amazing thinking time.
Speaker 2So I really just focused on this layout and how we were going to fit all these different needs into this one package, and every time I'd have a visualization I would stop and grab the notebook and draw it out, and after I don't know three hours or so it's like I felt like all right, I've got it, I've got it, this is it. And I practically ran into the office the next morning with Kyle Munt and Tom Reeder, our other designer and engineer, and we kind of collaborated and were like, yeah, this is it. But one of those key components was how do we make carrying big kayaks or paddle boards a central part of this design and not an afterthought, Because up until that point, the traditional RVs that were travel trailers.
Speaker 2Putting those kind of products on or in them was a total afterthought and there was no provision, and so so that led to us creating this innovative floor plan that allowed the overall vast to be narrow enough to to strap kayaks and paddle boards onto the outside at like waist level, so it's easy to do and and and not feel like you're sacrificing or compromising any of the living space in order to do that.
Speaker 1Well, you definitely have nailed that. It's a unique thing. You can't miss it. If it drives by, you can't miss the go. So we go from go go easy. We have the vast now. It obviously doesn't stop there, and I know your mind continues to work on innovative products. But now we're moving into this goat, we're adding the AT piece onto it, and then we also have the lofts as well. So the loft is something that's unique. I hate to say this, but I wish I would not have bought my rooftop tent before I found out about your loft, because I think that would have been the one that I definitely would have gone to. And still it's on my radar screen for the future too. But let's talk about the evolution of moving in from the GO and the VAST into the GOAT product line.
Speaker 2The original GO was designed to be used anywhere. It does not need to be, you know, in a campground with electrical or water hookups. It's very much an off-grid camper.
Speaker 2The reason we decided to pursue the GO all-terrain or GOAT in short, is that we just wanted to take it a step further in terms of capability and really matching more overlanding tow vehicles. So, as the popularity of overlanding really has been growing over the last 10 years, there's a number of towables that we saw out there, but they tended to be pretty big, pretty heavy, Serious overlanders were reluctant to tow anything because you can imagine, if you're just barely getting the actual vehicle through the situation, having a trailer along is not really ideal. But what's so awesome about the GOAT is, again, it's super lightweight and it's so small and compact that you barely notice it back there. You know people talk about. It's got an independent, axle-less Timbren suspension with, like I don't remember the specs, so forgive me, how many inches of ground clearance? It's some crazy number over 18 or something like that.
Innovating Outdoor Products and Recreation
Speaker 2But I also kind of jokingly, but have serious tell people like, look if, if you're in a situation where this thing is behind your tow vehicle, it's so light you can literally drag it. It doesn't even need the wheels, they could fall off and you're still going to be fine. So you know the evolution. You mentioned our lofts the you know the evolution.
Speaker 2You mentioned our lofts. The pairing of the loft with a GoEasy has really been a popular product for us this year for a lot of reasons, I think SUV rooftop, you know and so by putting that pod, that loft pod, on our GoEasy trailer, which is about 34 inches off the ground, on the standard version, we have kind of an HD version, we call it, which is a little bit more off-road capable, you don't even need a ladder, you know, you're just hopping in and out of it from ground level. So that's awesome and it gives you this great versatility. You can use it on the trailer. You can still carry all kinds of gear on top of the loft. It has racks, so two people can take a trail loft, we call it, and that's our smallest micro camper. Two people can sleep in it, super comfy, with a great mattress, lots of of interior features, but you can also bring two bicycles and two kayaks. So, and then all the gear that goes with it. All in this package is under 500 pounds amazing just like the most simple, easy, convenient product.
Speaker 2Um, you can hitch it up on a friday afternoon and have it. You'd be ready to go in 10 minutes. So that's great, and it takes less than a minute to set up for camp, so that's the cool part too.
Speaker 1A lot has happened in the last 20 years. What lessons have you learned and I know that's a loaded question, but just to just maybe at a high level what are some of the big lessons you've learned doing this over the last 20 years with Sylvan Sport?
Speaker 2Well, I will say that it's been incredibly gratifying and it's been incredibly difficult. So I don't want to gloss over the challenges that have been involved in keeping a manufacturing business running through the 2008 downturn, through COVID, through the current economy, which is challenging. So it's you know. The reality is 20 years has been built one day at a time.
Speaker 2It's just taken one day at a time and solving the issues of the day. I think it's very similar to my role in the company, which is to look at the big picture and set the vision but also make sure things get executed at the detail level, and we've got an amazing team. I'm so blessed to have the best people I could imagine working with at Sylvan Sport that they kind of take care of everything in the middle you know, and I'm at the vision and I'm at the details, because the details are what help kind of fulfill the vision.
Speaker 2But it's the same way in the overall business. You know, keeping an eye on the big picture but executing the one day at a time, which is the details. And I guess you know, truthfully, the most important lessons learned are the biggest life lessons. You know, I've been amazingly fortunate to have a wonderful family. We've lived in Cedar Mountain for the entire time Sylvan Sports has been in existence and I think when I started the company, our sons were four and one years old, and so they grew up camping. In the leanest times in 2008, when we were hanging on by a thread, our vacations consisted of going camping in a go at a campground about a half mile from the house. We could hear our dog barking and run home. You know very easily that those experiences are more valuable than anything that I could possibly imagine. Being present and you know my kids and family and family's lives during the whole period and just just being able to, uh, I guess, go through life on on terms that felt like they were meaningful to me.
Speaker 2It's probably the best, best lesson.
Speaker 1No, that's wonderful, that's great. So, um, at the outset I talked about you being really a force and an undeniable influence in this industry in general. So this is a little bit of a pivot, one of the things that really, when we think about leaving our legacies the amazing products at Sylvan Sport, the experiences that you're providing, not just for your family but for so many other people who really kind of buy into this whole concept of what these were designed for and using them for those purposes. But even outside of that, you have such a heart for the outdoor industry in general and we know a lot of our listeners know that in North Carolina we were one of the very first states in the United States to have this outdoor recreation office and you were a really big part of that.
Speaker 1A lot of our listeners know Made by Mountains, they know Amy Allison, they know all of that. But I did not know until recently that you were really at the forefront of all of this and you brought this from the West Coast here to the East Coast. You were very instrumental and I know that there's so much there and that's a whole other episode. But I'd love to just maybe just real briefly, just kind of talk about what that experience was like. And then what has that office meant for North Carolina and perhaps even for our region?
Speaker 2North Carolina and perhaps even for our region. I am uncomfortable talking about me in that sort of context. I guess I'm more of like the wizard behind the scenes. You know, I always try to set the stage for other people to succeed and then push them out onto the stage.
Speaker 1I love that. I love that.
Speaker 2And that's just kind of how my life has evolved, you know. Yeah, I mean, when I think back, I mentioned Peter, a friend, peter Metcalf, and so we would when outdoor retailer was an ongoing thing out in Utah, he of Utah to acknowledge the importance of the outdoor resources in North America versus the recreational economy. So if you think, logging mining, you know, has the potential to be a much bigger economic driver and a much more sustainable long-term economic driver for those natural assets that we have, and so we just had to kind of figure out how to tell that story. So Peter was instrumental in creating this office in Utah, and Utah was a bit of a touchstone point in that struggle, because historically it had been a heavy extractive state. The state's interests were mostly oriented around non-recreational use of public lands, and so for Utah to actually get that created was really a remarkable achievement, and Colorado and Washington State followed suit fairly quickly. They saw the light.
Speaker 2So here in North Carolina, a small group of folks, myself included, recognized that this was a real opportunity for us to lead on the eastern side of the country, and to me it felt only natural that North Carolina should do this, because in my opinion we have the best outdoor assets of any state on the East Coast. So we were a couple of us traveled out West and met with those Western state leaders that were generous enough to share their roadmaps to their individual successes, and we brought that back here to North Carolina and, unbelievably, within six months we had demonstrated to our legislature and leaders that this was a good thing and the state moved quickly and created the office. A gentleman named David Knight was the first to take the position. The state also requested that our group that kind of pushed this through, act as a bit of an advisory board to the role and to the leaders in government, because they're like, yeah, we'll do this, but we need some guidance. And so we were happy to do that. We formed what we named the North Carolina Outdoor Recreation Coalition. I had the honor of being the first chair of that group to kind of get the ball rolling, and I am you know, as we talked about entrepreneurialism earlier I'm a startup guy, not a long-term operational guy. So fairly quickly, I think a year or two into that, the organization got more sophisticated and had better leadership, and Amy Allison you mentioned Amy. She's been amazingly instrumental in the whole process from the beginning is now back in the chair of North Carolina Outdoor Industry Office director I'm not sure what the exact title is, but anyway.
Speaker 2So yeah, it's just kind of matchmaking. Good design is matchmaking and looking at systems, whether they're governmental or political systems. It's matchmaking Finding talent there and matching it with talent over here, or finding a resource here and there and just putting together these ingredients. So yeah, we designers tend to like overstep our boundaries every now and then. I think we can design everything. We definitely have our limits.
Speaker 1Well, I know that just on behalf of the outdoor industry in general. I know people have probably said a lot of thanks to that group that you're talking about and yourself and obviously Amy in the direction that that will go, and obviously our legislatures too and our legislators being able to get behind this. One of the things we were talking about Monday is that you know the importance of that office and the importance of the work and the spaces. To be able to take products like yours into the outdoors is huge and it knows no political party.
Speaker 2It is just the really great neutralizer, as I see it on to this movement and created these positions is that now we have a seat not only at the national table but even internationally.
Speaker 2The Department of the Interior at the federal level has literally asked the state leaders to roll up and report to the Department of Interior what's going on and what their needs are, and so that they can coordinate at the federal level.
Speaker 2But when we see the economic development side of this activity, so years ago we all met, the state leaders met in Asheville and we created what we called the Accords and they focused on four principles basically economic development of the outdoor recreation industry, workforce development within the industry, but stewardship, conservation and expansion of access to public lands was a third one, and then the fourth being the health and wellness benefit of outdoor recreation. Focusing on the economic development side of it, for a minute, when you think about recent big victories for the state of North Carolina and recruiting major international companies to our state, this outdoor recreation component now is part of that equation American battery manufacturing facility in North Carolina. They're looking at what outdoor recreation activities does that region or state have? That's going to allow me to recruit and retain the best worldwide talent. That's really it seems really obvious now kind of looking back on it, that's so important it's.
Speaker 2You know it's right up there with the pillars of good governance, infrastructure, education and outdoor recreation activities. I mean it's part of the enjoyment of life and so it's become very important. That's one angle of it. The direct economic impact to the state. I can't remember the exact latest number because it's evolving a bit, but I mean it's pushing $30 billion in direct economy in the state of North Carolina.
Speaker 1That's huge.
Speaker 2Yeah, and I think nationally. A number of years ago, while we were doing this, the federal budget office recognized the outdoor recreation economy as part of the GDP. It's like one and a half percent of the US GDP. So it's amazing getting to be really, really big numbers.
Speaker 1Yeah, yeah, it is, and this is just a small little tiny microcosm of that. But you know the saluted trail that's getting ready to go in. That funding just got acquired. For yesterday I saw an article in the headline. In the article I'm paraphrasing, but it was all about North Spartanburg, did you see?
Speaker 2that I saw the same article. Yeah, I read it cause it was. It was uh, the headline was a bit captivating cause it was a little bit, it was indirect, and I thought what is this? And then, yeah, I was surprised to see they were referring to the saluted grade trail.
Speaker 1Yeah, and and using the outdoors and I'm like this, this, this is it and it.
Speaker 1Like you know, I I get excited about stuff like that because you know, for me some of that excitedness here in North Carolina even started around old fort just seeing what was happening there in the resurgence and that was such a um, that was such an amazing thing to just sort of help be a part of just amplifying that story but seeing all those pieces kind of come together and then now what you see with you know made by mountains, with building outdoor communities and all the efforts and the pushes there.
Speaker 1And one of the things that you mentioned that is really still resonated with me since Monday is that Western North Carolina we know we have assets, we have great outdoor assets here, but there were some pockets in the Eastern part and maybe in the Central part. That really wasn't the case. But really what has shed light on this is part of the I would imagine is part of the effort of this outdoor recreation office to begin to say we have the assets here. The assets are what's going to draw people and then you just said it, with Toyota and their battery manufacturers and what people are looking at. I know, new Belgium was that way, sierra Nevada was that way, so there's a lot of these things that just draw people in.
Speaker 2BMW in the upstate was that way. Yeah, One of the reasons they're here is because they really appreciated the proximity to the beautiful Southern Appalachians, you know so.
Speaker 1Wow.
Speaker 2For me, you know being in the space for over 30 years, and I remember when I was just getting Liquid Logic off the ground. I remember having to do a presentation for the Henderson County commissioners and they were evaluating a small incentive package to locate Liquid Logic in Henderson County. And I remember talking to the commissioners publicly and saying I see this as a first step in making Western North Carolina an international hub of the outdoor industry, because you know, I was.
Speaker 2Prior to that I was going again going out to Salt Lake City and prior to that, reno, to the outdoor retailer trade show, which was the biggest trade show in the outdoor industry and all the companies, sort of the center of the universe was Bozeman and Northern California and Seattle and Denver area, you know. So the places you think of is the traditional outdoor meccas for North America. The East Coast was really kind of overlooked. So I just, you know I love Western North Carolina and always have wanted to make this definitely, just, my initial goal is a hub of the East and what's crazy is now it's a hub of all of North America. That's crazy, so pretty's. A hub of all of North America. That's crazy, so pretty neat yeah.
Speaker 1It is neat and so I knew that it was Outdoor Industry Hub of the East. It kind of received that moniker, I guess, a couple years ago as more and more businesses were coming in here. But for that to expand and to be more on a national level is huge.
Speaker 2Yeah, and it's really cool. Peter Metcalf again not to focus on him. He came to the Outdoor Economy Conference, I think in the second year. I asked him to come as a keynote speaker and so he stayed with me at our house and we were mountain biking the day before and it was his first trip to Asheville in this area and I still remember he was blown away by the amount of outdoor recreation opportunity and of course, he's a climbing guy. So we were talking about climbing in the area and he literally was saying I'm going back to tell everybody I know about this and the way like this place is amazing. That's great to hear. Yeah, it is great to hear.
Speaker 1I know about this and the way like this place is amazing.
Speaker 2That's great to hear. Yeah, it was. It is great to hear, I agree.
Speaker 1Yeah, but you know, my daughter I'll share a story too. She was out in Colorado and she was working in Estes Park and she they were at a waterfall I don't know which, which one it was, but there were some guests that were there and my daughter was blown away, you know, at the waterfall. She comes from here. She basically was raised here and and and she overheard this couple saying you know, this is beautiful, but it's not like the waterfalls in Brevard or in Transylvania County. And my daughter was like wait a minute, are you talking about North Carolina? And they're like, yeah, she's like, that's where I'm from. You're so lucky, I I'm from, you're so lucky. I can't believe that. And it's, it's so true. And I often say to people you know, I've, I've had the good fortune to literally travel around the world and I've lived in Europe and other places and there's no place I'd rather call home than literally right where we are. And I know people who have listened to these episodes. Now, I've heard this a hundred times. You know, and, and it's so true.
Speaker 2I couldn't agree more. We have had a really wonderful intern working with us over the summer and she is now just in love with Brevard, Transylvania County, wants to find a way to live here afterwards. And I was telling her the exact same thing. I said you know, traveling the world, I've been all over. And when you land in Asheville and I'm driving home to Cedar Mountain and I can't think of a place that I would rather call home, yeah, yeah, it's so true, so true.
Speaker 1Well, tom, this has been great. I could sit here and listen to your stories forever, because I know there are a lot of them, but I wanted to say thank you for not just great products that you're making and workforce that you're expanding here in North Carolina, but in Western North Carolina specifically, but just for your heart and your love for the outdoors too and how your product. It's not just a product that you make thinking that, okay, people are going to go use this. You're really kind of thinking about that end user and what they might do, even before you created the product, and I think that that's absolutely amazing. It's not just a me too thing, it is a unique standout, you know, offering. The world needs more people like you and your vision and your heart for really just kind of expanding, not just for your company and your customers, but just outdoors and just in general. It's so needed in our world.
Speaker 2Well, gosh, thank you so much for the opportunity to share. But just outdoors and just in general, it's so needed in our world. Well, gosh, thank you so much for the opportunity to share, and I agree we have a lot more responsibility as businesses than to just create products. You know we are responsible for the whole ecosystem. Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 1Yeah, thanks so much, tom. Thank you for joining us on this journey with Tom Dempsey and Sylvan Sport as we celebrated 20 years of groundbreaking innovation and outdoor recreation. I hope you've been inspired by Tom's incredible story, from his early days on the AT to his role in revolutionizing the camping experience with Sylvan Sport's versatile line of trailers and gear. Tom's commitment to innovation and passion for the outdoors have truly enhanced the way we connect with nature. As we've explored the evolution of Sylvan Sports product line and the rise of Western North Carolina as an outdoor industry hub, it's clear that the best experiences are those that bring us closer to the world around us. Whether you're an avid camper or a weekend adventurer, sylvan Sports products are designed to make your outdoor experiences more enjoyable and more memorable. I'd like to take a moment to extend a really special thanks to Darby Communications for making this episode possible. Thanks so much for entrusting me to help amplify the celebration of 20 years. That's amazing. Well, that's going to do it for this episode. I hope you enjoyed it. If you did, please subscribe, rate and leave us a review.
Speaker 1This episode. I hope you enjoyed it. If you did, please subscribe, rate and leave us a review. Your feedback helps us continue to bring you stories of how these mountains and the outdoors influence and shape our lives. You can also join me on Facebook and Instagram and drop me a note at mike at explorationlocalcom if you ever have a suggestion for a future episode. Until we meet again, I encourage you to wander far but explore local. Thank you.