Exploration Local
Come journey with us as we explore and highlight the people and places that make the Blue Ridge and Southern Appalachian Mountains special and unique. We explore the towns, trails, rivers, scenic byways, businesses, and people that fuel the life & adventurous spirit in these mountains. Listen in on this relaxed conversational style podcast as host Mike Andress interviews Authors, Business Owners, Photographers, Athletes, Adventurers, Travelers and Friends who have a deep connection to the outdoors and directly influence the culture of the Blue Ridge. We’ll even explore the many ways nature & the outdoors can positivity influence our health and well being.
Exploration Local
From Rails to Trails: The Ecusta Trail’s Role in Linking Communities and Outdoor Spaces
Trail by trail, North Carolina is weaving a network of connections that transforms how we move, gather, and experience our communities. The Ecusta Trail stands as a prime example—a visionary 20-mile rail-to-trail corridor that will soon link Hendersonville to Brevard along a historic railroad line that once united these mountain towns.
Joan Lyons and Emma Pindur, engineers with JMT, bring complementary perspectives to this transformative work. Joan studied in the Netherlands, learning from world-class cycling infrastructure before bringing those insights home. Emma, who grew up in Cherokee, brings deep local knowledge and a personal connection to the region's trails. Together, they're designing pathways that reflect the diverse needs of the communities they serve while honoring the landscape's natural beauty.
The impact is already visible—bike shops report surges in business as residents dust off long-forgotten bicycles. Families, seniors, and visitors alike are discovering safer, more accessible ways to explore. These trails are particularly vital for aging populations and those unable to drive, providing critical independence while simultaneously boosting local economies through increased tourism and community vitality.
Mike Andress
Host, Exploration Local
828-551-9065
mike@explorationlocal.com
Podcast Website
Facebook
Instagram: explorationlocal
Across North Carolina, a growing network of multi-use greenways is beginning to reconnect communities that were once separated by busy roads, long distances or simply a lack of safe options. These trails are transforming not only how we travel but how we live, gather and explore, and at the heart of this movement is the Acousta Trail, a planned 20-mile rail-to-trail corridor that will one day link Hendersonville to Brevard along a historic railroad line. Today we'll hear from two of the women leading this project, Joan Lyons and Emma Pender, both engineers with JMT, who are combining global experience with deep regional knowledge to design trails that reflect and serve the diverse needs of these communities, From the Acoosta to the Inca Heritage Trail and beyond. This work reflects a broader commitment across our state. North Carolina is proudly known as the Great Trail State, a title that honors its vast and growing network of trails that span mountains to coast, From greenways, blueways and rail trails to forest paths and urban corridors. These trails are helping to connect people to place, promote healthier communities and inspire a more sustainable, accessible way to explore. It's a statewide vision that brings together planners, advocates and everyday adventurers who believe in the power of trails to strengthen local economies, celebrate natural beauty and create lasting community connections and, as you'll hear in today's conversation, that vision is coming to life, one thoughtful project at a time. So, whether you're a cyclist, walker, runner or just someone who loves being outside, this episode is a window into the people and passion behind the Trails of Tomorrow. Let's hit the trail trail.
Speaker 1:You're listening to Exploration Local, a podcast designed to explore and celebrate the people and places that make the Blue Ridge and Southern Appalachian Mountains special and unique. My name is Mike Andrus, the host of Exploration Local. Join us on our journey to explore these mountains and discover how they fuel a spirit of adventure. We encourage you to wander far, but explore local. Let's go.
Speaker 1:Well, I am extremely excited about this particular episode because it comes on the heels of the last episode, which was about riding greenways and rails to trails and things that are becoming near and dear to my heart as of late. And it's really special because I don't have just one guest, but I have two guests with me today. So I have Joan Lyons and I have Emma Pender. They are both with JMT and they're going to explain a little bit more about what JMT is here in a second and sort of what their roles are, but Joan is a senior planner with JMT and Emma is a design engineer, and this is really going to dovetail right in line with the AcoustiTrail, as well as some other good surprises we have, Some you might've heard of and others you may not have heard about, but you're going to hear about them today and I'm so excited about that, for not only you but for me too.
Speaker 1:One of the things I always love to do at the very beginning of these episodes is kind of understand a little bit about who you all are and what sort of drives you and how you kind of got into this work that you are involved with. And, Joan, I'd love to kind of start with you sharing a little bit about your background as an urban planner and, obviously, a bike trail advocate, your role with JMT, and then also Women Moving People is an organization that you're involved with. But tell us a little bit more about you, Joan.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thanks so much for the intro, mike, and also for inviting us to record with you. It's always so fun to kind of talk about the work, especially when I work with people like Emma. You know we work sometimes in silos, and so it's nice to kind of bring everybody together to talk about the awesome things we're doing.
Speaker 1:Nice.
Speaker 2:So, like you said, I work at JMT. I'm a senior planner there and I've been with JMT for about two years now.
Speaker 2:And prior to working at JMT, I've worked in the public and private sector, primarily in the transportation space, but some land use and economic development work for about 10 years now and I got into this space because I was really interested in helping people connect better to their destinations because, I myself was experiencing my own challenges with connecting to public spaces when I went to LSU for undergrad and it really inspired me to make a difference in my community and I got very fascinated with transportation infrastructure while I was there and I got my grad degree in the Netherlands in urban planning at a university called Erasmus that's in Rotterdam, a kilometer south of Amsterdam Big bike community, of course and so I really wanted to learn from the best of the best for connected and protected infrastructure, and they're definitely leading the way and a lot of people want to know how they're doing it, and so I wanted to bring that back to the US and so, yeah, that's kind of a little bit of my journey on the professional side. And then on the personal side, I started to work on this concept called Women Moving People. As you indicated, it is a personal passion of mine. It initially started off actually as a book concept, which I'm still working on, started off actually as a book concept, which I'm still working on, but I think it can go far beyond that, because a lot of what I talk about on my website and on my Instagram page is about how women think about public space and transportation so much differently than our male peers, especially when we're in a male-dominated industry, and so it's important to kind of share best practices and learn from one another and also allow women to gripe a little.
Speaker 2:Sometimes it can be hard working with guys. As much as we love them, we love the support. It's just different, and some of the challenges that women face in the workplace and outside of the workplace can be hard, and so having other women to lean on and support are great. So it's great that I'm kind of fostering this community online, also talking about best practices of transportation and public space the part of it. So I appreciate you giving me a little shout out about that too, yeah absolutely, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1:And I didn't realize the part about Amsterdam. We have a little bit of a connection. I spent some time in Amsterdam and in Europe Holland, rotterdam, all of that back in the I'm going to age myself now, back in the mid-70s, and I just remember just how much public transportation and then also people just being active and biking all throughout the town or, excuse me, the cities. So I think that's so very cool and it's so indicative of Europe, just, I think, in general as well. Emma, let's turn our direction to you. You are a local, you are back here in Western North Carolina and I'm not going to spoil the rest of it for you. But, emma, tell us a little bit about who you are.
Speaker 3:I'm like, yeah, thanks for having me and Joan today. It's always such a treat to get to do these types of things. So I did grow up in the area. I originally grew up in Cherokee, north Carolina, and my family kind of migrated over to Bryson City and that's kind of where I first got to experience trails.
Speaker 3:I was a cross-country runner in high school so I really enjoyed Deep Creek and Lonesome Pine area and then eventually found myself all the way up in Connecticut at Yale University to learn some mechanical engineering and when I came back with my degree I really wanted to tie down roots back in this area, just because it's so beautiful the mountains are a pretty hard thing to pass up and all the access to trails. So it was really a priority for me to work here. So I felt very fortunate that JMT was willing to let me come on as a transportation design engineer and I've really been enjoying that work the last two and a half years and getting to work with people like Joan Pretty great to have someone that is really, I think, leading a path in our industry and making way for young women.
Speaker 3:And I really appreciate that but it's really great now because I'm getting to work on the Acosta Trail. So the first time I heard about Rails and Trails was actually in Brevard. Of all places, it was before this work had really started launching. I got to go for a cross-country in high school, so it's really cool now to actually be a part of the team that's putting that together and getting it on the ground.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, we're going to talk about the Agusa Trail, but there's a couple of other great trails that we mentioned earlier that we're going to have a chance to kind of dive into a little bit as well, with the Inca Heritage Trail and the Monte Dillsboro Greenway projects. So I can't wait to dive into that, and then I think we're going to chat a little bit about the Saluda Grade Trail as well, some of the stages that that's in and the people that you are involved with. But before we get there, joan, let's flip it back to you. Let's find out a little bit more kind of this professional journey that you have been on to get you to the point where you are such an advocate and an ambassador for active transportation and trails.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So, like I said, what really inspired me and got me interested in active transportation and trails was when I went to LSU. I did not have a car, which a lot of people thought I was absolutely crazy, Because Baton Rouge is a very car-dependent city. But I showed up. I had no vehicle the entire four years that I went to school, and, you know, I started to realize once I moved off campus how completely fragmented the community was and that there were job spatial mismatches for community members, black and brown communities in the South and how it was disproportionately affecting them. And so I myself, as a bike commuter into school from about six miles away, started to also realize that there were some Vision Zero related issues that were happening.
Speaker 2:At the time, Louisiana had the third worst cyclist and pedestrian deaths per capita in the United States.
Speaker 2:Now it's improved a little bit, it's not as bad, but it's still pretty bad, and so I never have been someone in my career or even when I was in school, to just sit around and not do something when there was a problem, and so I created a social advocacy organization for the state of Louisiana called Move Happy Louisiana, and it was essentially to help educate people about what is now coined as Vision Zero zero.
Speaker 2:So I was helping the city of Baton Rouge and a couple of other local jurisdictions, the university, through the transportation department, improve some of the existing facilities, also put out information about surveys that were happening that the public could answer questions to, worked on some legislation at the state level and really just wanted to improve what was happening in the community.
Speaker 2:I didn't know it at the state level and really just wanted to improve what was happening in the community. I didn't know it at the time but really what I was doing was transportation planning. And so then I went on to go to grad school and I really wanted to learn, like I said, from the best of the best that people always talk about for active transportation. And so I went to Holland, got my grad degree there, came back and yeah, just kind of been moving ever since in the active transportation space, transit, rail trails, all of that type of work I've been doing, like I said, for the last 10 years almost and yeah, it's been great challenges along the way here and there, but I like to keep it positive. For the most part I've had a really good run so far in my career.
Speaker 1:Well, that's great, that's so cool. So with this, the whole passion piece started back in undergrad and you saw an unmet need and you were trying to address that need and obviously you were a bike commuter yourself, like you said. So this is really things that you are actively living out. These aren't just an ethos of thought. This is like. This is my life. So it must have been a pretty cool Eureka moment for you to say, hey, I'm gonna go to graduate school in Europe studying the things in the context of exactly what it is. I'm passionate about Cities that you have, active transportation and it's all over the place. That must have been a Eureka type of moment for you.
Speaker 2:Effective transportation and it's all over the place. That must have been a eureka type of moment for you. It really was, and you know I had such great support at LSU. I love to shout out their university. You know there are people like Emma who go to Yale and Yale is an amazing university, but LSU actually puts out more Truman finalists, Albright scholars, than most Ivy League institutions. So I was a part of their honors college and they were fantastic at providing support for me to get funding to go do these amazing things and get grants or Move Happy Louisiana. They really provided me with the support that I needed to be able to understand how I could make a change in the community and then also affect the communities nationally, and so I really, I really respect the people in the Honors College and at the Mass Communication School. I have a Mass Comm undergrad.
Speaker 2:But, yeah, it's also interesting, I do. I would be remiss without mentioning this, but like Emma, I also was a runner. You know, I got hit by a car right before I went to LSU and it really kind of shocked me. And now I look back at it because when you're 18, you know, you don't know that like you're supposed to stop and like even if someone runs away and they they don't stay for the accident, that this is an issue.
Speaker 2:And now that I'm, you know, looking at crash reports all the time for Vision Zero projects, there's so many different people that are not documented for crashes, and so I feel like the passion kind of started well beyond just undergrad, because I've always been someone that's so active. I really want to be able to experience public space in a different way. I find that you know children that are exposed to riding a bike or walking on trails in their communities with their families. They remember different little things about the community before they even realize that they're experiencing this public space in a way that's before they even realize that they're experiencing this public space in a way. That's such a beautiful thing. When we're in our cars, I find that we're so fragmented into this isolation, and so it's my goal to reconnect our communities in a way that people can experience joy and happiness.
Speaker 3:Oh.
Speaker 1:I love that. I love that in so many ways and I have a sense of what you're talking about. I would say, probably within the last 30 days. So it's that recent.
Speaker 1:My daughter and I we rode in Brevard. We rode from, essentially, pisgah Forest all the way into downtown Brevard and one of the things that she and I talked about the entire time was, you know, for as many years as we've lived here and for as many times as we've driven these roads, the greenways just show you and these trails, they just show you just an entirely different part of the town that you're not going to see when you're just sticking to the main roads and you know going to the store and doing all your errands and you know just living, and so that's kind of what I just took away from. What you just said is that you know that does allow you to connect with the place that you live, whether it's recreation or transportation to get you know to work or to run. You know these errands or whatever they may be, but it's just a way to reconnect with or, excuse me, not reconnect but to connect with our community. That otherwise just isn't possible.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I feel like that's. I know this is diverging a little bit, but that's a really good segue into another project that we're not going to talk about too much. I think JMT is actually working on the 64 connections from Pisgah Forest into the city of Brevard and improving some of those existing facilities with roundabouts, bike lanes and improving that greenway that y'all rode. I'm actually working on that project right now, called NCDOT Project R5800. And we're getting closer and closer to that project getting wrapped up so that whole corridor will actually be even easier for you to like. Public attitude shift about bike trails active mobility.
Speaker 1:You know you can talk in terms of the acoustic if you like, and I think you just kind of started to with 64. But just like in general big picture, how are you seeing public attitude shift about bike trails and active mobility?
Speaker 2:I would say in the western part of the state, speaking particularly to that, people really understand the economic benefit of trails and what it brings to their community. I think that most counties throughout the western part of North Carolina recognize how much trails bring to their community beyond just the connection and the sense of place. It gives them the ability to market what is there to communities beyond just North Carolina. People know our communities for the trails. That's why we're the Great Trail State now.
Speaker 2:And it's amazing to see all of the community members in the western part of the state that are working on trails like Pizzeria, Zorba, like all the different local governments working with local nonprofits to make sure that these trails are world class world-class, I would put honestly. I think by the time most of these projects are down on the ground that we're going to talk about today, I would put a lot of these as comparison projects to Bentonville.
Speaker 1:And.
Speaker 2:I know Bentonville gets a lot of traction for what they're doing, but they've got family foundation funding, which most communities don't have access to. That and the fact that there are so many people rallying together to go after grants and reconnect communities, not just for transportation but for recreation purposes, and creating these places where people feel like they can connect with one another, that's the whole reason why we do what we do, and I think that the attitude for trails in the western part of North Carolina is very positive. People understand what they bring. Certainly, emma. I would love for you to chime in as a local on this.
Speaker 3:I think the local perspective on my end would definitely be that, growing up, western North Carolina just feels like the most walkable place. It's not like an urban center, there's not a lot of access for pedestrian bikes, so it's really great to have all these trail systems and these Greenway projects I feel like are really connecting from the more natural spaces to those city centers or town centers and it's really great to see just all the positive impacts that's having on the communities.
Speaker 3:We're a very tourism driven area, I feel like, so it's really awesome when the projects that we're doing not only support the tourism but also the local community and their health and their happiness. So I think that's the biggest push I've seen with Greenways.
Speaker 1:I love that and I think you hit the nail on the head too there. You know there are so many people that Joan and I were talking last week or the week before and we were so close to the Acousta Trail and I know that it's not officially open, but myself as well as you know, dozens of other people are out there as well enjoying this trail, but y'all, I am seeing people like, like.
Speaker 1:I'm seeing bikes that are being brought out that haven't probably been ridden in a very long time Kids bikes, I mean just people walking. The thing is, I was in a local store recently it's called Next Venture, actually in Brevard, and this, this gentleman was telling me that people are just bringing their bikes out of the woodworks to all these bike shops now, trying to get them up and running in anticipation of these trails being completed, which is exactly kind of what you're saying, emmett. So we haven't had these in the past and so now you have all these beautiful trails, or you know miles and hundreds of miles of trails out in the woods, but these local greenways, this is kind of a somewhat of a new thing for us and I think people like the buzz. I can tell you the buzz in Hendo, hendersonville is big, and it doesn't matter where you go and what walk of life and it doesn't matter the age. People are incredibly stoked about what's coming pretty soon.
Speaker 1:Well, let's kind of dive in and talk a little bit more about the Acoustic Trail, because it's so cool. Emma, you said when you were in high school, you saw, you know, you heard about this project coming to fruition. And now here we are and you're involved in it. So it's been a long time coming no doubt about it and Conserving Carolina, the Friends of the Acousta Trail. There's a lot of great resources and we'll link those for people to find out more about it. But let's just kind of talk about the sort of an overview of the trail. It has a really great history and what are some of the things that really kind of make this new up and coming trail special y'all.
Speaker 2:The Acosta Trail is a 20 mile rail trail was a way to connect the community via rail, and so that was a way for all of these little smaller local communities in between Hendersonville and Brevard to connect to one another.
Speaker 2:And then, over time, of course, rail is no longer there, but they've got this resource. And so, as you indicated, mike, conserving Carolina purchased the railroad right-of-way and there's also been some additional funding for us to do design and planning that NCDOT and all the different communities partnered together on a couple of years ago, together on a couple of years ago, and that's kind of the impetus for why this project is now starting and close to finishing, at least on one of the portions. So, jmt, we are involved in all three sections of the Acusta Trail. I know I mentioned this earlier and you did as well, but there is a section closest to the Transylvania section of where it connects to Brevard, where we have a great team partner that we love and respect so much, nick Adams, and they're working on the design side on that. But all sections we've done planning and then Emma's working on the Hendersonville section that's currently underway for design beyond the section that is getting completed close to y'all.
Speaker 1:So Emma maybe share a little bit more about that other section. Is this the section from like there in 64 in Horseshoe, kind of like near Cognitive Brewhouse and Packers Place, and then kind of going north? Is that the kind of the next section that you're working on planning, Emma?
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's the one that I'm currently designing. It kind of goes through Etowah there and I actually was lucky enough that when I first started out the section that is already paved right now that Mike and Pam have already been riding on through there I got to actually help with some of the kind of tying of blue streams right before it got put out to bid, got to work on the permanent drawings for that and help with final design with our lead designer, alex Fitzpatrick, who did that first section in Hendersonville. And so a year after that, when we completed that, I felt really excited that JMT. Let me start on the second section of the Acosta Trail as my first lead for design engineering.
Speaker 3:So so far it's been pretty great. We got the 30% plan submitted just before the hurricane. So when Hurricane Colleen hit that was definitely a setback on design we had to go back out, collect the survey to make sure that the alignment that we were working with still looks the same post-storm. So just in the last few weeks we've finally gotten an updated survey back. So we are chugging ahead on this section of the trail and hoping to get it put in the same shape that our first section was opening up in June.
Speaker 1:That's great. Can you share a timeline Like is there one for that next section that you're working on, emma? Or maybe even kind of defining or talking about the timeline kind of helps us define all that goes into these trails, from permitting to studies, to all the submittals, everything you all have to do. I wonder if you can speak at all to any, and we won't.
Speaker 2:obviously we're not going to hold you any tight timelines on this, but, yeah, I guess I can kind of speak to that a little bit, because I understand what the initial goal was for the final two sections that are currently in design since Emma's not working too much on the Brevard section but the goal was that we would essentially go to construction at the same time for both sections, and there's a couple of kind of things that we're working on on the fly as we speak that are affecting some of the different changes for this trail, particularly in the Brevard section. Keep in mind that when we're thinking about creating public space and you've got a 20-mile section of a rail, trail how are people going to get to that rail trail?
Speaker 2:Is there a way for them to connect midway? Is there a way that they can get access to other additional amenities beyond that? And so that's kind of what's happening. On that third section, closer to Brevard, they've just realized, I think, over time that there might be some additional locations that they might need to include as a part of the study and the survey, and so we were working on some additional things as a part of design for that section.
Speaker 2:That I don't think was initially anticipated, and so we're not sure yet if the Henderson section that Emma's working on right now might end up getting completed before that Brevard section. But I think the goal is that both of the final two sections will be done at the same time. As for specific dates, I probably can't speak directly to those quite yet just because of what's happening with the other section, but everybody's working on it and I know it's a big priority to get it to construction. Especially with the funding requirements that they have for the grant, they have to get it done within a specific time frame, so it should be done, in my best estimate, in the next couple of years once it's finally constructed.
Speaker 1:Okay, so, yeah, so it's not a straight path, obviously.
Speaker 2:One thing that you know, I think was one of the biggest challenges of this project that we faced. We were very close on design for both of the sections at the same time as Colleen hitting on design for both of the sections. At the same time as Colleen hitting, and as Emma kind of indicated, they had to go out and re-survey the existing conditions of the site because it had changed so much and I think that that certainly has affected this project and the dates exponentially. When site conditions change, they may have to deviate from the existing right-of-way. What does that mean? Like is there something else? Like, if we're going back, like are there other things that we need to reconsider to make this a really good amenity? And I think that that's kind of what is happening right now, but I think it's all good things. It's sounding like, overall, this is a win, that we're kind of going back, even though you know, it may not seem like that. Of course, Halloween is not fun.
Speaker 2:And I don't wish what happened to the communities in the western part of the state to anyone, especially when it delays projects like this that really would connect communities. But I do think that there are some changes that are coming as a result of that that are going to make it a better facility in the long run.
Speaker 1:What do you hope that this does, this Acousta Trail and this is probably a I know it's a big, broad question what do you all hope to do or hope that this trail is going to accomplish once it's finally up and running 20 mile stretch, hendo to Brevard? What are some of your hopes for this trail and what it does for the community?
Speaker 3:I think that this project has been in fruition for so long that the community going to be so much excitement and happiness when all 20 miles are completed, there's going to be people.
Speaker 3:I'm sure that will turn it into some sort of challenge to bike all the way from one end to the other, and I think that's really great. But I think ultimately it's going to provide this space for locals to connect with each other, with the environment that we're so lucky to be a part of, and the economic impact. You've already seen it with all the bikes you were telling us about, mike. The bike shops are exploding, people are coming in and out and everything. People are just excited for it. I think having spaces where people can connect with nature, connect with their communities, that's going to be the biggest thing. With the Acosta Trail coming out, because it's already such a beautiful area, people are already biking on just the gravel left over from the railroad. So just having a safer space where people can bring their kids, their grandparents and just the whole community, generationally can connect as well, it'll be a lot safer too.
Speaker 1:That's so cool. As you're talking, Emma, I'm like little images are popping in my brain of the three times that I've ridden it, of all the population groups that you're talking about. So it's just, it's more than theory, it's like it's real and it's definitely, it's definitely happening. I would love to ask you all about the parking. Joan, we talked about this a little bit before, so I know like parking is going to be available at the. I can see the big you know large parking lot right near downtown Hendersonville, but when you start to head north, do you have an idea of where these other parking places or trail heads or access points might be?
Speaker 2:One of the connections that will be a bigger hub on the other end in Brevard will be at the Oscar Blues Brewing where the existing trail for Brevard Greenway connects. So Brevard Greenway will actually be an extension of Acosta to connect into the city of Brevard, so that will be a bigger hub. Certainly, people can also connect with the city of Brevard through that 64 corridor that I was talking about and park at some of the locations near there, and then Pisgah Forest will have some additional opportunities as well through the 64 corridor. As for that other site in the middle, they're still evaluating it so I probably can't share too much on that yet, but there's going to likely be another location, um, somewhere kind of like a midpoint of the trail.
Speaker 3:So yeah, I'm also right in saying that there is other parking areas kind of just along, like small, not full on parking lots, but there are going to be like little waypoints along the way, like if you're just parking a couple cars, sort of thing, throughout the trail system for all 20 miles.
Speaker 1:Well, the Acousta is getting all the noise right now because it's on the ground, but there's a whole lot more that's going on in this area. Just geographically speaking, we sort of jumped to the west a little bit and there's a couple of projects and I'd love for you to share whatever level you can. I don't know what kind of a nondisclosure agreement or anything else that you have going on, but anything you can share I would love to share about the Inca Heritage Trail and the Monte Dillsboro.
Speaker 2:I'm all ears, and I know our listeners are too. So Inca Heritage Trail is a trail that's essentially going to connect along Hominy Creek near the Bob Lewis Ballpark upper field and the Buncombe County Sports Parks.
Speaker 2:So they're trying to reconnect some of those different resources together. So it's also kind of referred to as Inca Heritage Trail and Harmony Creek Greenway there's like two different names, okay, but we're working on that project. There's been some delays in that one. You know. The goal is that there's going to be some other like smaller amenities along there for people to connect into some of the existing facilities also in Inca, which will be great, because there's just some other recreational resources in that area that need to be connected.
Speaker 1:Okay, and then you have the Monteith-Dillsboro Greenway Projects.
Speaker 2:The Monteith and Dillsboro Project is a complete street project in a greenway extension from the Appalachian Women's Museum. So that museum is a National Register property. It's a historic site.
Speaker 2:And so the goal is that there was a old bridge near Scotts Creek that connected a road over there, but they're going to turn it into kind of like a shared street concept and there will be like a prefab, prefabricated pedestrian bridge, multi-use path bridge that'll go in lieu of that existing railroad connection that there used to be to connect the communities of Hillsborough and Silva together.
Speaker 2:So it'll be really cool to see what that ends up looking like. We're pretty early on in the design stages for that project and certainly when you have the community facilities at Monteith, farmstead and Community Park, we have to be very particular about how we're affecting National Register properties and their sites, and so that project will probably take a little bit longer to get on the ground because of that. But we're working on that again with our teaming partner McAdams. Again, love to shout them out, but they're doing some awesome work too and it'll be really cool to see what ends up that project. I think especially because there was that existing connection near the Herald supermarket and yeah, it's going to be very, very helpful for communities to get access to that recreational resource as well.
Speaker 1:Oh man, I just absolutely love that. Yeah, and two just wonderful little communities to kind of hang out and tour around in Dillsboro and Silva. I mean they're just phenomenal little towns and it kind of reminds me of something that Emma was saying earlier too, just about how these greenways are really connecting. They're like connection points for a lot of these different communities, so they're not just kind of in a silo and you don't just have to get in your car and, you know, go drive to each of these little areas to be able to go from you know hanging out and having a cold beer at Innovation Brewery and be able to get on your bike and ride north into Silva and explore it. Just it opens up so much more opportunity for people, I think.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think you're right, Mike. I would say that I'm really excited for this one. Joan was telling me about it earlier today, and our office is right across from Harold Supermarket so I think I'm going to really enjoy once this one gets on the ground, so enjoy the connections between Dillsboro and Silva. I could walk to lunch or bike to lunch if I wanted to on my breaks in the office. So definitely looking forward to that community connection.
Speaker 1:Well, speaking of another little town and another project, and I know this is not one that you all are actively or excuse me, you're not like running point on this project, but you mentioned the McAdams Group and the Saluda Gray Trail, so that's, you're kind of partnering in some ways with them on that. I love to hear you know. Whatever you know you know, spill the beans on this one. I want to know a little bit more about Saluda Grade.
Speaker 2:I don't know too much about Saluda, but I know that they're working on it. It's been a baby for them. I've heard that it's going to be an awesome trail. Highly recommend having another podcast episode with them as a follow-up on this. Teresa is a great resource and Christy Stout as well.
Speaker 2:But, yeah, they're doing the groundwork on that one and I'm very excited about what FLUDA will bring in conjunction with all these other projects that we have in the western part of the state, because, like these little connectors, like they provide great resources to the local communities but then they also connect some of the different regional resources together so that it makes western North Carolina what we call the Great Trails State and the Great Trails region.
Speaker 2:I think of North Carolina, I know certainly there are eastern Carolina trails that are great that we're working on, like in Corolla, but I think that this one is going to be a big one, same with Acousta, and the little ones that connect in between are also just as impactful and serve those localized communities and different needs and concerns that they have.
Speaker 2:So I'm excited to see how Saluda and Acousta together end up transforming some of our smaller towns surrounding them and the local communities, because I have a feeling that so many of them are going to end up benefiting exponentially more. Like I said, I just I really I keep on honing in on it, but like it's a big benefit to the community when we have these connections, and I think Saluda and Acosta are probably like the big, you know, flashy ones, but like the smaller ones, to probably provide just as much of that back in revenue to these communities. There's so many more like shovel-ready projects, just like this, which is why we started to create the Great State Trails Coalition, so that legislators in the state of North Carolina could really understand the impact that they provide to communities. 95% of the time when I'm working on a bike pet plan or I'm working on a land use plan, the number one thing that people really want to know is how can I walk there?
Speaker 3:How can I?
Speaker 2:bike there. How can I get there without having my car? And unfortunately this goes into a much bigger thing. I like to talk about a lot. The state of North Carolina has 80% of its road right-of-way being owned by the state and we do not fund bicycle and pedestrian projects as a part of the state transportation improvement plan. It's a big soapbox thing for me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, keep going, I'm listening.
Speaker 2:Removing the limitation is imperative for the funding limitation so that we can actually create better investments that connect all different types of community members, and so my goal is that the legislature will eventually repeal that.
Speaker 2:But it is amazing that the Great State Trails Coalition has actually created so much outcry from community members like in the western part of North Carolina and in these communities where tourism is like a big factor for them, to get standalone funding for trails and greenways. That was not a thing beforehand. When I think about bicycle and pedestrian projects, it is multi-use paths, but certainly sidewalk infrastructure is more a part of that conversation, as well as bike lanes. But it is something that is amazing that Great Seas Trails Coalition has been able to do within the last three years of them really really doing the work about why this is an important need, because these different amenities truly transform rural communities, local economies. They make the places better for their local focus, while it's not just like for tourism. There's many people that are aging in place in the western parts of the state that need access to amenities for their health and they can't drive. Disabled populations or elderly are not able to drive, most likely to not so being able to provide these different things to them is also important too.
Speaker 1:The justification is obviously there and it sounds like the momentum in the last decade or so has definitely been picking up much more work to do, but with people like yourself and Palmer McIntyre and others you know across the state doing the work that they're doing.
Speaker 1:That's. I think that's, that's huge, which I think is kind of a little segue into the women leading in transportation piece, where I'd love to kind of talk about that a little bit more, because I watch your social media for women moving people and I see all the things you're doing. You've already said that you're a commuter yourself, but you're experiencing I don't know what you call it, not a renaissance in the eastern part of the state, but there's so much work, there's so much buzz around these trails and around the biking and the communities and everything that you're involved with in the eastern part of the state, and I'd love to kind of hear a little bit more just about the Women Moving People piece too.
Speaker 2:I created the concept after I started to experience in a professional setting, major challenges and setbacks and I realized as I was going through it that I was using writing as an outlet to talk about some of my frustrations and then, through that whole process, started to realize, as I talked to other women, that this is a huge challenge. Working in the architecture, engineering and construction space as a woman can be an uphill battle for a lot of people and it's unfortunate that it is that way, but it is the case for a lot of women. And so I again, like I said earlier, never want to be someone to just sit around and act like things aren't a problem, not talk about them. So that is why I created this, why I post about it all the time. And you know, it's not just about, like, the professional setting. It's about how I think about transportation, design, planning, public space, how I experience public space, or some other woman experience public space, because we are not, we're not the same. Like Emma might have a very different experience than I would because she grew up in Cherokee. Like I don't. I don't know her space. But also it's like, why aren't we talking about this? Like when we're in such a male-dominated industry. Women want to make these awesome things happen. Like you said, mike Palmer McIntyre and Iona Thomas have done amazing things with the Great State Trails Coalition and what they've been able to build. Those are both women that are leading this effort in North Carolina.
Speaker 2:I'd love to talk about Julie White. Julie White is the Deputy Secretary of NC DOT. She is doing amazing things to help get things like the Raleigh-Richmond line off the ground, making sure that the integrated mobility division are doing these amazing things. That's a Gallup. She's the third NTDOT division engineer in the state of North Carolina. It is a woman.
Speaker 2:These are all things that they've had to fight for, and when you have to fight for stuff like that, it sucks, because sometimes it is an uphill battle and you have to keep on having conversations with people. You have to. You have to set yourself up to say I am the expert in this, why? And sometimes people may not even listen to you when you say that. You know we spent all this time talking about all the amazing things that Emma and I know that I could tell you that there are probably some people that would be like I don't know about these girls, man. They seem like they may not know what they're doing, but we do and that's why representation really does matter in the planning and infrastructure and design space, because we think about it differently and we put in the impetus to put in the legwork to make these things happen. And so I am looking to share those stories and talk more about them as a part of the book and on my socials. So that's a little bit about the impetus of that.
Speaker 1:I love that and I know it's a name that you know, if you know Palmer McIntyre. But the other one that comes to mind for me is Beth Heil. She is now the executive director of the Burke River Trail Association but the Fonteflores State Trail. She was really instrumental in making all of that come to life, and I know that in all of these projects that there are a team of people that work. But there is always that person who's the champion and who really sort of says you know, like you, I'm not just going to sit by, I hope somebody else does this, I'm going to step up and do it. And beth was very much that way in burke county as well. So she is a definitely somebody to add to your list into your book of of a woman of influence. For sure. She's the fire behind a lot of stuff that happens in burke, Fonteflora and other stuff as well. So she's a wonderful human being.
Speaker 2:Love it. Yeah, see, now you know why I wait a little bit, everyone. I want to make sure that I get all the stories right, you know.
Speaker 1:There you go. That's great, all right, so before we sign off, we're going to go through a lightning round. I am very interested to know these questions. They're all about trails and they're all about some of y'all's favorites. So we'll just kind of go rapid fire. Joan, I'll go with you First on this one, and then, emma, you can go after Joan, the favorite trail You've ridden or walked.
Speaker 2:I have to say, because it's Such a long trail, the East Coast Greenway, such a cool trail that connects all the way from the top of the East Coast in Maine all the way down to Florida. I've not done the whole trail, but the sections near where I live are amazing and East Coast Greenway does amazing work, so got to shout them out.
Speaker 1:Awesome. That's on my bucket list too, by the way, emma. How about you?
Speaker 3:My favorite trail is definitely Lonesome Pine in Brighton City. It's kind of in the Deep Creek Trail system in the National Park and it was a bit of a torture to bike in high school. Our final summer training was to go up that mountain, but the view is remarkable at the top and totally worth it.
Speaker 1:So that's my favorite. Awesome, awesome, all right, and Emma, we'll go with you first on this one, your dream trail trip, like anywhere in the world. What's your dream trail trip?
Speaker 3:I think I'm definitely a homebody, but a different. A dream of mine is to hike the whole appalachian trail. Um, so that's, that's mine that's a good one.
Speaker 1:That's a good one. How about you, joan?
Speaker 2:I really love the colorado trail. Um, I've hiked some sections but I've not done the full section. That's where I'm from originally, um, but then I also have been very interested in doing the mst the mountains to sea trail. I've hiked some sections but I've not done the full section where I'm from originally. But then I also have been very interested in doing the MST, the Mountains to Sea Trail, the whole way from the coast of North Carolina, all the way to the west, nice.
Speaker 1:Very good, all right. Next question has a little bit of a Palmer McIntyre kind of vibe to it, because she just wrote her book about trails and places to eat. So this one's going to be a shout-out to Palmer. She's the inspiration. What is your favorite coffee shop or local place near a trail that you love?
Speaker 2:Mine is Monkton, mongoose, which is not actually in North Carolina. This is in Colorado, where I used to live, but there are these really amazing bluffs that are outside of the Lone Tree Colorado area, and I used to live in the same building as Monk and Mongoose. That's why mixed use development is amazing. So I would go hike or run every morning when I lived in this area and then every morning when I get done I would go to my local coffee shop in my building after I'd be on these amazing bluffs. Yeah, I love Monk and Mongoose. I had my little bridal shower there, so I'll shout them out Nice, nice.
Speaker 3:Nice, I love it.
Speaker 1:I love the stories behind them too. That's cool. All right, Emma, your turn. How about you?
Speaker 3:Yeah, my favorite coffee shop is we call it Coffee with a K, but it's just Coffee question mark, and it was a part of Just off of the New Haven Greenway trails, Somewhere I went to school, so that's probably my favorite.
Speaker 1:Very nice, alright, and our listeners Probably could already gather this next question From all that you all have already shared. But, joan, we'll go to you first on this one question from all that you all have already shared. But, joan, we'll go to you first on this one. And then, emma, to you. Words you live by when it comes to community building.
Speaker 2:I would say I share kindness and understanding and recognize that everybody has different needs and concerns, that they need to be addressed in their community, and so being able to hear people out and recognize what those concerns are and do it in a loving way is my sense of community building. I want to make sure that nobody is really left behind in the process, and that's why I'm a planner. I want to make sure that all those different concerns are outlined as a part of a project, and that's what I live by for community building.
Speaker 1:Good answer. All right, Emma, I'm dying to hear yours.
Speaker 3:I think my biggest thing with community building especially as I've watched Western North Carolina grow through my lifetime is like really having a balance between the local population and any sort of economic goals we have with tourism and I think Joan touched on it very well for kindness and caring for the differences that different communities have. So that's like a big thing for me, just making sure we strike a good balance and supporting the people that live here and the people that want to come and visit here and enjoy it for what it is.
Speaker 1:Well, listen y'all, I can't thank you enough. I know that we said it a moment ago that we could probably go deep in a lot of these things and talk. You know there's probably four or five more episodes out of this one, but thank you all so much for taking the time out of your day. Number one, but number two, and probably most importantly, thank you for all the work that you all are doing in this space, because you all are both not only advocates and ambassadors, but it's truly a passion, and it comes through in this conversation. It comes through in past conversations, Joan, that we've had.
Speaker 1:So I really can't thank you all enough for everything that you're doing to make these trails and make these things important and accessible to everyone. And as somebody who lives in this particular community, where you all are directly responsible for building some of these trails, I honestly cannot thank you enough. And I know, on behalf of all the people that live in this region too, I know I would be speaking for them too when I say thank you. So it's been a joy to have you on. I can't wait to kind of stay in touch and see the other things that you all are involved with and working through. But again, just thank you so much for taking the time to come on the show and spread some knowledge.
Speaker 2:Of course. Well, thank you for inviting us. We love talking about the work that we do, and it's great to share best practices and how we, as women, work on in the trail space, so we greatly appreciate it.
Speaker 3:We really appreciate you, Mike. It's been a treat today.
Speaker 1:As we heard today, the Acoosta Trail, the Inca Heritage Trail and other projects like them are more than just pathways through the woods. They're pathways to connection, to accessibility and to a stronger sense of place. These trails are still being built, but the groundwork is already transforming the way communities plan for the future. Local economies are preparing for new foot traffic, families are looking forward to safer, more scenic ways to get outside, and towns across western North Carolina are embracing the idea that trails can be both recreational and revolutionary. All of this is part of something bigger.
Speaker 1:North Carolina is the Great Trail State, and that title is more than a slogan. It's a shared commitment to building a trail network that unites people across geography, generations and backgrounds. The work is ongoing and it's powered by people like Joan, emma and countless others who believe in the role of trails to strengthen communities from the ground up. Thank you for tuning in. If you enjoyed today's conversation, leave us a review and don't forget to subscribe so you don't miss the next episode. You can follow me on Instagram and Facebook and drop me a note at mike at explorationlocalcom, if you ever have ideas for future episodes or you just want to say hello. That's going to do it for this episode. As always, I encourage you to wander far, but explore local.