The Future of the South Mountains with Andrew Kota

In this episode, I sit down with Andrew Kota of Foothills Conservancy of North Carolina as they celebrate 30 years of protecting the landscapes of western North Carolina. We talk about the work happening across eight counties, why protecting the headwaters of the Broad, Catawba, and Yadkin rivers matters to millions of people downstream, and how conservation today shapes the places we'll explore tomorrow.

Our conversation centers on the Wilderness Gateway State Trail—how it's being built, why it's unlike most long-distance trails, and what makes this one of the most exciting outdoor projects happening in North Carolina. Behind every mile of the Wilderness Gateway State Trail is a much bigger story—one of land conservation, clean water, working farms, wildlife habitat, and the partnerships that make it all possible.

If you care about trails, conservation, clean water, or simply understanding what it takes to protect the places we love, I think you'll enjoy this conversation.

Mike Andress
Host, Exploration Local
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mike@explorationlocal.com

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Transcript

Foothills Conservancy And Its Landscape

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Our organization, our land trust, Foothills Conservancy of North Carolina, serves an eight-counties service area in western North Carolina. So we work in an area or a territory from the eastern escarpment of the Blue Ridge Mountains down into the foothills and east from there into part of the western Piedmont. So we cover eight counties, which is about 3,500 square miles. So it's a varied landscape and a beautiful area with lots of rivers and creeks and streams and mountainous areas and foothills areas. There are three major river basins that originate in our service area, and those are the Broad River, the Catawba River, and the Yadkin River. And those rivers are very important in North Carolina. They serve drinking water, you know, uh recreation opportunities, business and industry for millions and millions of people downstream. Yeah. And that is every county in North Carolina is served by a land trust, fortunately. Um and in the western part of the state, that that's probably about an an average size for um uh land trust territory in in this in this part of western North Carolina. But

Thirty Years Of Protection And Stewardship

SPEAKER_00 1:22

yep.

SPEAKER_01 1:22

And now this year you all are celebrating your 30th anniversary. So for 30 years you all have been a land trust, and 30 years you've been protecting and preserving these lands um for future generations just in perpetuity.

SPEAKER_00 1:36

Yes, yes. Protecting, preserving, and stewarding, stewarding and and managing uh landscapes and preserves, holding conservation easements. Um we're I think we're somewhat unique in that we have five different state or um national uh or federal natural resource agencies in our eight county area. We've got you know part of the National Forests, Pisgah National Forest, um, the Blue Ridge Parkway, which is a unit of the National Park Service, several state parks, several state game lands, and of course local um municipal parks and and open spaces. So we we we get to work with all of these different partners, and um there are a variety of methods that we use to permanently conserve land, and of course with private landowners as well, um, through conservation easements. Um so yeah over the past 30 years we've permanently protected about 75,000 acres, close to 75,000 acres, which is which is fairly substantial in the eastern U.S., you know, and and in North Carolina. We're working on a huge project right now that will bump that number up substantially.

SPEAKER_01 2:56

So and that's really going to be the focus, I think, of our conversation today, or part of our focus of the conversation. And one of the things I'm really interested to hear, because I I think this will probably come out, all the different agencies that you work with and the work that you do. Sometimes we may not understand that it's not just Foothills Conservancy because you couldn't do this work all by yourself. It's all the other agencies and groups that you really have to collaborate with in this important work, or it probably doesn't happen.

SPEAKER_00 3:22

Exactly.

Why Conservation Starts With Community

SPEAKER_00 3:23

It's community driven. You know, I I I would start there, and uh it's important for people to know that this is not uh conservation doesn't happen from an authoritative standpoint, you know, or direction. It's it's really the the needs and the demands and the desires of local communities wanting to see open space preserved for whatever that reason is, you know, quality of life, um access to recreational resources, clean water, of course, you know, wildlife habitat, uh all of those reasons and many more. It's it's imperative that we, you know, that's my opinion, you know, a land trust's opinion, it's imperative that we we protect these areas for for ourselves now, you know, our needs and now and our quality of life now, and then long after we're gone, you know. Um so it starts at the community level for sure. And um, whether that's an individual private landowner or a group, a community group that has has a need for you know land conservation for whatever purpose. And then absolutely you you hit on a key point in this work, which is it's never just the land trust alone doing the work. There are multiple stakeholders, multiple partners and collaborators. And so, you know, we are we're relationship builders and maintainers and stewards of relationships and in in throughout the communities that we work in. And each community is different, you know, it's relatively large area that we work in, and the identities aren't the same everywhere, you know. So you're really working with different people and different needs, and and so it's it's it's really unique and it's a lot of fun, but it's it's people-based for sure. I love that. Yep.

Why The Wilderness Gateway Trail

SPEAKER_01 5:16

Andrew, over 30 years of doing this really, really important work, there's so many different stories that you and I could sit here and talk about today. Uh, the great news is that you all have done a remarkable job on your website where you can go and you can look at so many different stories and aspects of these stories um at your own will. But today I'd love to really kind of focus in on one if we could. And it's this um this idea a couple of years ago where the state of North Carolina sort of proclaimed itself as the great trail state. And we have an amazing trail that we're gonna talk about today, and it's the Wilderness Gateway State Trail. Yes. Uh it's a major focus for you all in the conservancy right now. And I'd love to kind of talk a little bit about why now, why this project, and what is kind of helping to drive this at this time and point.

State Trail Designation And Funding

SPEAKER_00 6:04

Yeah, so we have to give a lot of credit to our our state legislators for creating a state trail system, right? So, and I think I'm I'm not gonna get this correct, but there are probably about 15, somewhere around 15 state designated trails in North Carolina. That certainly does not mean there are 15 fully developed state designated trails. A designation means that there is now authorization for the state of North Carolina to be involved in the planning, the development, and you know, quite importantly, the funding for these public recreational assets, right? Right. Of those, the Wilderness Gateway State Trail is one. And our organization, our land trust, is the responsible party or the lead organization for developing, constructing, planning it out, laying it out, this trail system, and ultimately maintaining it and offering it for public use. So there's a lot to that. It was designated, I think about five years ago, officially designated by the state legislature. And they did a wonderful thing. The General Assembly did a wonderful thing in 2023 in allocating about $25 million to the state trail system. You know, it's great to have this, to, to have an idea and a concept, but it, you know, these these systems really need support, funding support. Um, land trusts are excellent candidates for, yeah, I think they're excellent candidates for being involved in the development of state trails. There are only a handful of land trusts in North Carolina that oversee uh or or you know are lead organizations for state trails. We're we're one of them. You know, Conserving Carolina is another, Blue Ridge Conservancy, you know, these are our land, our land trust partners to the to the north and west, and there may be others in in the central and eastern part of the state because you know, we're experts at raising money and recreation, outdoor recreation, passive outdoor recreation, meaning not motorized uh sports, it actually fits in very well with introducing people, giving people access, enabling people to interact with the natural places that that we help protect. So that's kind of the idea behind the Wilderness Gateway State Trail. It's unlocking, in our case, for the Wilderness Gateway State Trail, a phenomenal conservation corridor that's been developed over the history of our organization, 30 years, you know. It's kind of culminating now. And so, so not only are we doing it and sort of like representing this on paper and telling people about it, but they can actually go out and experience these lands. And that's I I think that that's incredibly important for people to have to be able to have some tangible way to experience conservation. We know clean water, clean air, healthy forests, you know, productive farmlands, um, protected watersheds, all of those things, wildlife habitat, biodiversity, super important. But it's different when you're out, when you can actually go out and experience those places.

SPEAKER_01 9:38

So yeah. And I feel like I have experienced that on a personal level. Yeah. And and and talking with other people too, they have, and it's interesting because once you actually get out on the land in the spaces and you can smell it, taste it, breathe it, you become an an ambassador, uh, you know, without having an official title. You just you fall in love with that land, you fall in love with the resources that are around it. And I feel like it makes people want to protect it more, they want to support it even more. I don't know if that's fair to say, but that's kind of my personal first first hand experience.

SPEAKER_00 10:12

Yeah, I'm I'm right there with you. That's been my experience in my life too. I I love I've loved recreating throughout North Carolina, you know, in many different places throughout our country. It's been a huge part of sort of my life experience. And I agree with you, you know, yeah, when when you have the ability to to experience places outdoors, you you you do become a protector of those. Yeah, an ambassador. That's a great, a great way to put it, you know. And you know, we're of like mind. I think we we think it's important to to ensure that we have these resources for future generations.

SPEAKER_01 10:53

So yeah, yeah, absolutely.

The South Mountains Corridor Experience

SPEAKER_01 10:56

The trail itself, I've heard different numbers, but I think the 170-ish, maybe more miles is what this trail will entail, which is very large, and I can imagine it's gonna pass through lots of different types of ecosystems in this in this corridor. Talk a little bit about what some of the characteristics will be with this trail and what will we see once we actually get out there.

SPEAKER_00 11:19

170 miles, who knows? You know, that might be uh we may get that number from from a line on a on a piece of paper, you know, measuring a line on a piece of paper. It's I think it's to be determined, but that probably in the 200 mile range, which is large. Yeah, it's that that's a and and it so you need a lot of land to be able to do that. I mean, that's that's only a fraction of, say, like the Mountains to Sea Trail, which is uh, you know, 900 miles or something like that. But the concept behind the Wilderness Gateway State Trail, and I think it's it's reflective in the name, is really to get to get people access to you know some of our best uh natural lands in our region. The the template for this or the the canvas for this is the South Mountains, primarily the South Mountains, which is part of the Blue Ridge. It's kind of an connected offshoot, lower elevation mountain range that that uh juts in an eastward direction off the Blue Ridge Mountains. And so it's ecologically, it's kind of this transition zone between the Piedmont ecoregion and the Blue Ridge ecoregion. So it has attributes and uh very much looks like, feels like you're in the mountains, the Blue Ridge Mountains, although you're just slightly lower in elevation. Um, but it's a tucked and folded landscape, just you know, much like the southern Appalachians, lots of water, you know, beautiful views, amazing natural communities, rare plants and species, you know, expansive wildlife habitat. And we're fortunate in that the 30 years that we've spent protecting this area, it's not the only area in our eight county service area that we've had great success in helping communities preserve or uh and protect, but uh this is a nice core area. And because of this expansive land conservation that's happened over 30 years, the trail will move through a landscape that is permanently protected. And so, and you know, we we chatted earlier a little bit about the challenges of long-distance trails and intersecting privately owned land and the need to have public trail easements on, you know, if if you're gonna cross through municipal areas or cross through private land. And so a big portion of the Wilderness Gateway State Trail doesn't have that issue. It's it's on publicly owned land, permanently conserved land, and so there are a couple different landowners involved, our organization being one of them. So, but that's what that's one aspect of it. And, you know, ideally what we hope will happen is in the eastern part of the domain for the or the territory for the Wilderness Gateway State Trail, it will be a river trail, so a blue blue way trail. So it'll pick up the Henry Fork River and the Jacob Fork River, which both begin in the South Mountains on in protected land in South Mountain State Park. So great watersheds, and those two rivers come together to create the South Fork of the Catawba River, which is the water supply for the for Charlotte area. Okay. So very important what's happening up here, I say up here in the headwaters of the Catawba River, the Broad River, the Yadkin River, you know, for people downstream. But what we'd like to do is is make connections from the Wilderness Gateway State Trail into some of our local communities. You know, the uh the town of Old Fort and Marion and uh Valdez in Eastern Burke County in the city of Hickory. So there's a lot of interest in these communities are diversifying their future, you know, and and by embracing, and they have done it for years now. This is not brand new, and it's certainly not because of our organization. It goes back to the desire, the communities and the people like having access to outdoor spaces, you know, and so though all of those factors have really come together over the last, I would say, really about 10 years. And so the you know, it's the perfect opportunity to have something like the Wilderness Gateway State Trail be embraced by the region and really supported by the region. Yeah. So that connection with the connection with some of our local communities is really an important aspect of this. And it'll it'll take time for that to develop, but it it will happen.

SPEAKER_01 15:56

So that seems to continue that thread and that theme of ambassadorship or protecting and just wanting something like this. And people are realizing that the natural assets, especially here in North Carolina, our natural assets are enormous for economic growth, for quality of life, for protecting and preserving the natural world too. So there's really kind of a win-win-win formula, it seems to me. Is that a part of the reason that there's a lot of there's a lot of tailwind behind projects like this right now from not just the design and and the the conservation piece, but also ultimately the the funding piece.

SPEAKER_00 16:33

Yes. I think you're yeah, simply, yeah, I I yeah, I think you're you're absolutely correct. And you know, we know that areas that have boast high quality of life attract businesses, and part of that quality of life usually involves easy access to natural areas. Yeah, and so there's there's a little bit of a cycle there, right? You know, a a a positive feedback loop, and and it is important for our funding sources, our legislators, you know, it's not all state money that that's that's making this happen. There's a lot of foundation, a lot of private money. People are supporting it, and uh because they believe that these are positive changes for the future of of this region indeed, you know.

SPEAKER_01 17:21

So yeah.

What Is Built Now

SPEAKER_01 17:23

So as it sits right now, I know we're talked about 170 plus miles. Uh earlier this year, 10 miles of that had been constructed this summer that will be open to the public. And so all the things that we're talking about, the benefits of experiencing them, people will actually begin to do that here very soon, very, very shortly. Besides that, though, where does the project stand for funding for those 10 miles and beyond?

SPEAKER_00 17:51

Great question. As part of that allocation I mentioned back in 2023 from the state, uh our the Wilderness Gateway State Trail received $1.3 million. And we we being being Foothills Conservancy had already raised $250,000. So we had one point about $1.5 million to begin trail construction. That will allow us to build about 30 miles. Okay. 13 miles are already built. 10.5 miles. You just mentioned a 10.5 mile loop called Wolf Pen Loop, and that's named after a creek that runs through this certain area of where the trail is built, is completed. I rode it on my mountain bike on it last week for the first time. Did the entire loop, and it's um it's a lot of fun. It's a game changer for this region. It really is. We have a lot of trails. We do, you know, in in this, particularly in the Pisgah National Forest, which is not far away. But you see uh, if you if you look at a map of the trails in this part of uh North Carolina on one of those apps, you know, whatever it whatever you use, you know, you'll definitely see like a desert, you know, a zone where there aren't any public trails. We're helping to fill in that gap. And so, and that's that really is a barrier. Although it's uh it's seemingly like miles and miles, hundreds of miles of trails, you know, that could be an hour and a half drive from someone who's farther south, you know, or farther east. Um, and so we're we're kind of bridging that gap and and bringing it to this, bringing outdoor recreation and trails to to a more rural area of our of our service area, of our part of the state in an amazing landscape, too. That's I would say most people, unless you live in in some of these communities or you pass through them regularly, you wouldn't know that these fantastic places are there, you know, and so it's it's gonna be phenomenal. Um so so the Wolf Pen Loop section is is finished, that's ten and a half miles. Uh we've built a little over three miles, it's out in the boonies, not far from Wolf Pen Loop, and we will soon connect that section down to US 221. And we're currently working on about a six-mile segment on a conservative one of our community conservation properties in eastern Burke County along the Henry Fork River. Um, and these are all segments, they are disparate from one another, but they are all segments of the Wilderness Gateway State Trail. So we're we're kind of putting a little bit of trail down in sort of like the central wilderness area, a little bit farther to the west, a little bit farther to the east, and then of course, you know, it'll take time to connect all of that together. So we'll, I'd say by the end of 2028, probably, we'll have those 30 miles largely built out and ready for public use. So we'll unroll or roll out, you know, those segments over the next couple of years. But Wolf Penloop will be ready. It it's it's completed. We we're we're working on a parking area right now, and it'll be ready for public use. I'd say, you know, probably early fall, late summer, early fall in the next couple of months. Soon. Yeah, very soon. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:34

And 2028 will be here before we know it as well. Right. Yeah, that's true. So you mentioned the mountain

Multi Use Access And Blueway Plans

SPEAKER_01 21:40

biking. Obviously, hiking will be a part of this. Um horses allowed on these trails. Is it a multi-use trail for that, or is it just biking and hiking?

SPEAKER_00 21:47

Yeah. Um so biking, hiking, canoe and kayak. Remember the blue way section. Um, so there will be boat use on some of it, equestrian use, yes, eventually. None of The none of the segments that we have planned in this first tranche of trails will be equestrian use, but absolutely, and so sections through like the South Mountain State Park, there will be be built sections to the South Mountain State Park. That's a great area for horseback riding. And so we'll we will work with the state park and the uh you know state of North Carolina on ensuring that some of those are usable for those uses as well. But one thing that does set this trail, we think sets this trail apart is we're developing it and we're laying it out to adaptive bike standards. So yes, hiking, and these are great, those types of trails are great for hiking too, you know. So you don't have extreme pitches, you know, uh extreme climbs. It's the trail itself, the tread is built a little bit wider, the switchbacks aren't quite as abrupt, you know. There's kind of they're they're they're smoothed out and built out a little bit to to allow uh folks that have adaptive bikes to to have a good time, you know, really enjoy the experience and and and be able to access the trail system. So and and our you know, our goal is to build the entire distance of it to adaptive bike standards. That's amazing. Yeah, yeah, it's it's pretty cool.

SPEAKER_01 23:24

Yeah, and unique. You know, there's a couple trails that are around where um people can go and have that type of experience. And I know we recently we did an episode with Shannon Odom with Destination McDowell, and and that are that was definitely something that we talked about and that they were extremely excited uh about. So yeah, kudos to you. You thought of all the user groups.

SPEAKER_00 23:43

It's tried to, yeah. Uh trying to incorporate and have to give credit to our trails program director, Shane Prisby. He he you know, he's done a phenomenal job. Trying to incorporate as many users as possible. And he he kind of had this idea of, you know, let's make sure we build it to adaptive bike standards. And we're learning along the way, you know, and so are the trail builders that we're working with, you know. I mean, they're they're expert trail builders. So we we actually design and lay out the trail, uh, Shane uh primarily, and then we hire a company, so we don't do that our we don't actually build the trail ourselves, the land trust. We're not out there building the trail. We hire contractors to do that. And we're working with a phenomenal contractor out of uh West Virginia, uh Tri-State Trails, they're well known all around the country, they've been at it for a very long time. John and Charlie. Charlie, one of the one of the owners and trail builders, just turned 83, I think. And they're learning too. You know, they've been doing this for a long time, but you know, it's it's a great experience, you know, is working with people who are open to, you know, they hey, we don't have it perfect. We'd like to know what we can do to to make it more accommodating for all these user groups, and so we, you know, invite them to participate and and informing how it can be better, you know. So we're those are those are all things that are happening like in real time.

SPEAKER_01 25:11

So I love it. Yeah.

Building To Adaptive Bike Standards

SPEAKER_01 25:13

Let's focus in a little bit more, a sharper focus on the South Mountains area because foothills going all the way back to your heritage, from what I've read, is you all were a large part of protecting the land that started South Mountains State Park. But this whole idea of this South Mountain corridor, which is opening up all of these things that we're talking about today, I'd love to kind of camp out there just a little bit more and kind of talk about the characteristic of that area, um, characteristic of the region and why this is just making, and I think you touched on it, so this might be a little bit rhetoric, but why is it making this trail building project um even easier to navigate? Sure.

SPEAKER_00 25:52

Um yeah, I'd mentioned South Mountains, the it's a offshoot of the Blue Ridge. And so you know, the north slopes of the South Mountains and kind of the southern slopes of the of the Blue Ridge cre is that's the the upper part of the Catawba River basin, right? So if you think about we're in a valley here, we're in Morganton, and we are in a valley with the South Mountains to our south and the Blue Ridge to our north and and west, you know, south and west, north and west, and it continues, this valley continues um westward to the town of Old Fort, and then you climb up the Blue Ridge to Ridge Crest and Black Mountain. That that's where you're you're climbing up the escarpment of the mountain of the Blue Ridge Mountains, and you see the the South Mountains off to your to your south or to your left as you're heading west. So think that I don't know, maybe that's a visual that the the listener can, you know, yeah. It's a valley here. And then the south slopes of the South Mountains, that's that's the Broad River drainage or the Broad River Basin, you know. So so we're protecting two two important river basins by working in the in the South Mountains proper. And yeah, our our organization was founded by a grassroots group of concerned people, you know, that uh ultimately it was called the South Mountains Coalition when they formed, and then they quickly turned shortly thereafter, renamed themselves to Foothills Conservancy and took on the responsibilities of a of a true land trust. I think it was more of kind of a grassroots effort, you know, up until that point, but a huge success for any really any organization, and and certainly one that was just fledgling, you know, at the time and just people who were concerned about their backyard, honestly. They established what is now the South Mountains Game Lands, which is 20,000 acres of publicly administered land for outdoor recreation that includes hunting and fishing. It directly adjoins South Mountain State Park, which is the largest state park in North Carolina at over 20,000 acres. So those two mass land masses together is 40,000 acres of contiguous conservation land publicly owned, publicly accessible. And yes, our organization helped create South Mountain's game land and helped South Mountain State Park become the largest area, largest sized in in Acreage Park in North Carolina. The corridor then builds out from that core 40,000 acre unit. And the idea it was to or is to connect the landscape uh in an unbroken fashion westward to connect to the Blue Ridge through other parts of the South Mountains that hadn't been protected as of you know 15 years ago, and then of course moving eastward as well, you know, toward toward Hickory and to and encompassing the Henry Fork and Jacob Fork rivers, you know, the lands around those rivers that are important for downstream users. And so that's the canvas, the predominant canvas of the Wilderness Gateway State Trail. And back to the partnerships where how kind of we kind of started this conversation, those partnerships have developed over the last 30 years and made that corridor possible. So it's currently 64,000, 64,000 acres in size, 65,000 acres, something like that, that has been protected in the corridor in conjunction with our state partners, a phenomenal private conservationist that has invested a lot of their time, money, and effort in this region, protecting this region. He's been an incredible partner. And, you know, we've helped establish new state natural areas through this work. And then it's all kind of culminating with our Hickory Nut Mountain project, which is a 12,000 acre acquisition that we're working on now. And that landscape alone will eventually hold about 30 miles of the Wilderness Gateway State Trail. It's a it's a it's a fantastic, unbelievable landscape, you know, in in our part of the world for sure. So we have a a large landscape, but there's various uh a few different owners of these conservation lands uh through throughout this corridor. And so we've begun building segments on a 4,000-acre area that our land trust owns and manages because you know we own it, so it's easy for us to be out there and you know kind of dictate where the trail can go, lay out the trail and everything. We're building it. I mentioned the eastern Burke County segment. That's a preserve that we also own, about a 900-acre preserve that we've assembled over year the several years, and it actually adjoins a larger preserve that we own, 2,000 acres, that in turn adjoins South Mountain State Park. So you can you can like maybe you can picture the connectivity of all of this, you know, as I'm talking through this. But Wolf Pen Loop itself is is built on two different conservation lands under different ownership. One, the Bob's Creek State Natural Area, half of it's built on Bob's Creek State Natural Area, which is 6,000 acres state natural area that many people probably don't recognize as extends from Interstate 40 around exit 86, which is the exit to the city of Marion, town of Marion, south, several miles. You know, it's 6,000 acres that kind of just extends south and then adjoins 7,000 acres called Box Creek Wilderness, which is privately owned by this phenomenal conservation partner and held under permanently protected by a conservation easement that's held by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service. Okay. So Wolf Pen Loop is will be built is built, the southern half of the loop is built on private conservation land. So we actually do have a public trail corridor easement through that that area that makes it legal for for people to to use the trail on private land. And then the other half is the other half of that that 10 mile loop is is on the the Bobs Creek State Natural Area. So public ownership, private conservation ownership, but eased for public legally available for that public trail. So it's kind of complicated, you know.

SPEAKER_01 33:12

Yeah. But well, there are a lot of moving parts for sure, and I think that really kind of further helps to illustrate the comp the complexities of what you do, the complexities of preserving and protecting land, and there's a lot of different ways to get there, but it has to be an amalgamation of all the efforts and all the people trying to say yes to the same thing, it sounds like.

How Big Land Deals Get Done

SPEAKER_01 33:31

Yeah, right. When we talk about Hickory Nut Mountain, is that something that you own currently or are you looking to purchase that?

SPEAKER_00 33:38

Yes. Good question. Good question. It has been acquired by the private conservationist that has been so instrumental in this corridor, creating this corridor. He has assembled 12,000 acres of ecologically rich land, biologically rich land. It's a predominant landscape in the in the view shed of that part of our region, the Old Fort area, Bunkham County, down into McDowell County. I think, you know, it's visible from Interstate 40. So literally tens of thousands of people see it every single day. And you know, that's what's exciting to me. You know, I I wish I could I wish there was a way to inform everyone who drives Interstate 40 in this section or or you know, visits Old Fort or visits Marion, you know, and sees this landscape to to for them to be aware that what they're looking at is conservation land or land that's about ready to be permanently protected. And so it the land has been assembled, and we being Foothills Conservancy in North Carolina are now working through the process of acquiring the land, helping the state of North Carolina acquire the land, right? So that's how our land, one way that our land trust works, we call it acquisition assists. So our land trust won't actually ever own the property, we won't be in the chain of title, but we negotiate the purchase of the property, the contract, you know, purchase contract. We're actually we are under contract with the seller to buy the land. And we're sort of leading the fundraising side of things and the due diligence, the transaction due diligence. So all those little things that you have to do, get surveys and environmental assessments of the land that you're purchasing to make sure there's no major contamination. Uh surveys help you understand what the boundaries of what you're purchasing, what those boundaries are, you know, and and any they the and title research, you know, this attorneys, you know, um expertise help understand like any types of encumbrances or liens or or clouds on title that you, you know, you have to work through to to make sure you're you're acquiring land free, you know, free of these encumbrances. Sure. Um lot of due diligence. Yes, yeah. So we're we're leading that entire process, but the state of North Carolina will own Hickory Nut Mountain, the lower two-thirds, which will be about 8,000 acres, southern two-thirds will be a new unit of the North Carolina State Park System.

SPEAKER_01 36:35

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 36:35

And the and the northern one-third or about 4,000 acres will be a new unit of the N North Carolina Wildlife Resources Commission, a new game land. Wonderful. Yeah. And so publicly owned, administered for public benefit and public recreation and public use while also protecting the phenomenal natural assets of this of that region. And so the Wilderness Gateway State Trail will be built on the state park section of Hickory Nut Mountain. So but I want to pause real quick and just highlight the fact that this incredible individual, conservationist, conservation philanthropist, is really behind this project.

Tim Sweeney And Conservation Philanthropy

SPEAKER_00 37:23

His name is Tim Sweeney. He's an just an amazing conservationist for our state. And if you consider more broadly, I mean throughout our country, you know, I mean, I I I would wager to say that there are very few people doing if I I'm sure they're out there. I know that you know, you know some of the big names, like Ted Turner's, and of course you've got the Rockefellers, you know, I mean, those are huge names, you know, establishing lands that are part of our American heritage. And and Tim Sweeney's doing the exact same thing here in North Carolina. It is unbelievable. And I've I've said this, I've thought about this over the years. Like he's made things happen for conservation in North Carolina that would not have happened without him. Things that we could never have done, you know, over a hundred years, and he's making these things possible.

SPEAKER_01 38:20

Well, I love that. And our listeners were going to know, and you and I were talking about it a little bit earlier, too, Tim's work in helping to donate the land to the South Yellow Mountain Preserve with Southern Appalachian Highlands Conservancy. And, you know, it's people like that that are like sort of at the pinnacle of what we were talking about. Again, people that are protectors of lands, ambassadors of lands, and they've just fallen so deeply in love with it, and obviously have the means to be able to move your projects further and quicker than you might have ever otherwise be able to do is is amazing. So we should be forever indebted to people like Tim and and others too.

SPEAKER_00 38:53

Yeah, just um amazing people. And like I said, it's it's a partnership, and having Mr. Sweeney as a partner in this is just uh it's it's made it's made it possible. Yeah. Yeah. And and it's it's it is important for people to just to stop and recognize that, you know. I know notoriety is not something that I'm sure he really cares about, but but it is important for people to understand that that that's part of the equation sometimes. And and and in our state, we've benefited the the citizens have benefited greatly from it, you know, because of and it's not just our region. It's like you you mentioned Yellow Mountain and Southern Appalachian Highlands Conservancy. Yeah, it's it's throughout the state indeed.

Identity Culture And A Protected Future

SPEAKER_01 39:40

So and you all are coming off, and speaking of people that are investing, you all are coming off one of your largest fundraisers, I understand, in the history of Foothills Conservancy. And so that has to be another tailwind just to help you, not just with this project, but just so much other work to be done.

SPEAKER_00 39:58

Yeah. Our the awareness of our work and our organization, you know, you'd you'd think, well, 30 years is a long time. There's still thousands and thousands, tens of thousands of people in our region who've never heard of us. Yeah. So I I would love to change that, you know. But yeah, I think um people are recognizing the importance of ensuring a like a natural heritage legacy, you know, and and and uh point out, you know, also that in protecting our natural heritage, you know, this goes without saying, I I think we're protecting our culture, cultural heritage and our historical assets and resources as well, you know. So history, culture, environment, those are all firmly linked together. That's identity, you know. That's that's our land defines the essence of this region, you know, and that that then influences the people and the culture in the region, right? So that's part of, you know, so it's just it's much bigger than just it's a it's much bigger than anyone individually, and and and b, it's it's much bigger than just protecting a parcel of land or a creek or a waterfall or a farm. You know, it's a it's you're protecting the identity, the heritage, the culture, the history, and and the future all at the same time. That's wild to think about.

SPEAKER_01 41:25

It is wild to think about. For me, connecting people to place, connecting people. It's that word connection that I just keep coming back to recently. And it's it's just that it's connecting people to the land, to the culture, to the heritage, to the history. For me, um, few things get uh are more exciting to me than that when I think about outdoor recreation, when I think about not just the outdoor recreation component of it, but when you think about preserving and protecting and knowing that these lands are going to be here for a lifetime and generations of lifetimes, you know, it's just it's just huge.

SPEAKER_00 41:59

You know what else it does, it connects people to each other as well.

SPEAKER_01 42:02

Yes, yes, it does. Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_00 42:04

How you think about just having an experience outside, you know, like how you I don't know, you get out you get out of your daily anxiety spiral or whatever for a moment, and like and that helps you to connect with, you know, whether it's a a friend or a loved one or someone you don't know at all, but enjoying the same thing that you're enjoying, it it really does help make those personal connections happen too. So yeah, and that's important in life, you know.

SPEAKER_01 42:36

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think it's just one of the one of the uh outcomes and the benefits of again, I think the the work that you all do. And maybe a way to sort of turn that concept on his head and we don't have to camp out a long time here. But one of the things I always think about is what would happen if people like you weren't here? Like not just Andrew Coda, but Foothills Conservancy or the Tim Sweeneys of the World or the people who are giving and investing, you know, what what would happen if if if that if those people didn't exist and these places weren't protected? It's a scary thought. I don't know, you know, not something you probably want to think about too much in your line of work, but but maybe you do, maybe you're trying to hedge against something like that.

SPEAKER_00 43:13

Well, I'll tell you, there are a lot of caring people out there. You know, a lot of people in this industry, I say this industry, which is land trust industry, you know, um that and but that you know it's goes far beyond that. You know, it's not just nonprofits, uh someone someone, one of the consultants that we work with frequently, Equinox Environmental, up in Asheville, their director, David Tuck, just mentioned to me a couple, you know, uh weeks ago, like it was a nice reminder. It's like there are a lot of people doing conservation work in a lot of different areas, a lot of different fields, you know, and and it's not just land trust. You know, but he didn't say that exactly. He didn't say it's not just land trust, but it made me realize, yeah, it's not just land trust, it's not just state. Agencies, not just federal agencies, it's local communities, civic groups, consulting firms, you know, our heck our surveyors and stuff. So there's a lot of people doing it, a lot of people care about it. So if I weren't here, I'm confident someone else would be doing this work, you know. And I've I tend to think about the shoulders that I'm standing on, you know, the foundation that was here that was built for this land trust. Like that's my responsibility is to make sure that that we continue on that that firm foundation is is solid and recognized, you know, as like the awareness part, but then we build off of that, you know, and and so that that's but if I weren't here doing it, someone else would, I'm sure. You know, I've got I'm surrounded by people, we've got a dozen staff members here, and every single one of them cares as much about it as I do, and then multiply that by you know the the 20 or so land trusts in North Carolina, the thousand land trusts throughout the the the United States, and then all these other network networks, you know, and they're in units of this network. And so yeah, it's it's a powerful, it's a powerful movement. Yeah, it's called a movement, it's solidified, you know, it's a powerful industry for sure, yeah. Uh of carrying people.

SPEAKER_01 45:22

I love that. I absolutely love it. And maybe so one of the things I always think about as well is you know, the impact, the work that you're doing, and the impact that it makes out in the community and when or your region. And when I think about this, I think about the Wilderness Gateway, State Trail, this whole South Mountain Corridor, Hickory Nutton Mountain, like all of these things we're talking about. What do you ultimately hope that people are understanding or taking away from the landscape and the environments that you guys are doing your your good work in?

The Simplest Takeaway About Land

SPEAKER_01 45:55

Does that make that question make sense? Yes.

SPEAKER_00 45:57

To me it does. I think it's pretty simple, you know, that it is important for us. We are not disconnected from the land around us. We have to have land and water to survive. I mean, how simplistic is that? But forgotten, you know. How do we get fresh, healthy food? You know, that's part of what we do, protecting local family farms to make sure that those agricultural lands are available to be farmed, you know, so that producing local food. Uh, the clean water that we drink every day. You know, seriously, like that's for me, that's as simple as it is. Like recognizing that we're not separated from the land that surrounds us and that we interact with, you know, and how much healthier we are when we actually spend time interacting with the land around us some and how it brings people together, you know. I think that's the most important thing. And and that, you know, when people know that, when they recognize that, I think that then they and another another part of it is celebrating it too, right? And that's that's kind of like we're we live in an amazing place in our country, you know. And I'm about I've told you I'm about ready to go on a road trip out west. I love it out there, it's great. Every time I return, it feels like you're back home, you know, and and so caring for it too, caring for it so that it's we leave it in a better place for our children, their children, or if you don't have children, you know, just the next generation, you know, long, long, long after we're gone. That's the and that's the unique that's a uniqueness of the land trust and the conservation community is the permanence behind it, you know. Yeah, and people, I'm I'm trying not to get too far uh uh on a tangent here, but I've been if you're in this work long enough, you're at well, how can you be sure? It's as sure as our you know, concepts of legal concept. I mean, that's it's grounded in kind of like our legal concepts and how strong those are and foundational those are, and like, you know, if if we're not here, hopefully someone else will be around to protect that, you know, and so um I hope it made a little bit of sense there, but um celebrating the land, recognizing that we're connected to it, and and I don't know, going out of your way to be a part of it uh if you can, you know. I think that's important too, experiencing it yourself, you know.

SPEAKER_01 48:46

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 48:46

Thanks.

SPEAKER_01 48:47

Yeah, absolutely.

How To Stay Connected And Get Involved

SPEAKER_01 48:48

And I'm excited for all of us to be able to experience these first 13 miles or so of this wilderness gateway trail to speak the areas that we've been talking about until we get to that point. How can people stay connected to you and the work that you all are doing here?

SPEAKER_00 49:01

Our website, right? The social media outlets, we do have wonderful print materials, a great volunteer program, our community engagement program. So we have a full-time staff dedicated to connecting with the communities where we work and and you know incorporating people, inviting people into our organization and and the partnerships, you know, um, and being a conduit to some of the lands that we've protected and why we do what we do, you know, just so all of those ways. We have we have some events, check out our website for those, and those will continue to grow and change over time. And so all those ways, you know, and the Wilderness Gateway State Trail, some of the other trail systems we've helped developed are we we actually I mentioned this to you earlier. We own and manage a park, not you know, just a few minutes outside of downtown Morganton Oak Hill Community Park and Forest. That's a great way for people to visit the parks conservation land. 12 miles of trail. There's a um a farm incubator program, there's a community farm program. Um, you know, we're developing a sensory trail out there with uh so that's a free place to people to for for people to just go and and be outside, you know, an easy place to get to. There's a great restroom facility right there, you know, you're just minutes from downtown Morganton. So there are a lot of ways, a lot of different ways. But anytime folks are visiting the Wilson Creek area, National Wild and Scenic River, uh, Lake James State Park, Chimney Rock State Park, South Mountain State Park, part of the Pisga, the Piscah National Forest, you know, Buffalo Cove Game Lands, yeah, yeah. They're experiencing conservation and a conservation that Foothills Conservancy in North Carolina has been a part of, you know, been a partner in. Wonderful. Yep, yep.

Closing Thanks And What Comes Next

SPEAKER_00 51:03

I love it.

SPEAKER_01 51:03

Well, Andrew, um, I know that you have this Colorado trip and you have about now a half a day to get ready to uh to get the club's workout because you'll be gone for a little bit. But um thanks for having me today. And uh thanks for the conversation. Thanks for all the important work that you're doing. Um, you've definitely opened up my eyes to a new area, and you're helping people fall in love and connect with the land. And I appreciate so much the work that you all do as an organization.

SPEAKER_00 51:26

I my pleasure. I mean, it's an absolute honor to do this work, and it's a privilege, and thank you for seeking us out. I really appreciate that.

SPEAKER_01 51:35

Absolutely.