Grace Abides with Nick & Andy
Join Pastors Nick Billardello and Andy Romstad as they teach the Christian faith in a relevant and relatable way. They also talks about other stuff.
Grace Abides with Nick & Andy
Revelation 7
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This week in Revelation 7 Nick & Andy explore...
+ Are you included in the 144,000? What is it? Are marital relations allowed?
+ Why your guardian angel might be doing more than just watching you sleep.
+ Washing robes in...blood?
+ From the "Great Ordeal" to "Great Comfort": A total reversal of human suffering.
+ "Ministering spirits" among us and being "sealed" by the Holy Spirit and marked with the cross of Christ forever.
Actual passage, 144,000 wanted to make sure he was in. I think it might have had something to do with who he was marrying. But it was it was really curious because uh but if he wanted to have sex with his wife, he wasn't gonna be in. Okay, okay. Apparently, apparently glad you're on top of those things, Nick, because it's outside uh uh what I know about because you know I'm a big revelation fan. But it was fascinating me that he was quitting our church over this passage.
SPEAKER_01Uh hey everybody, thanks for listening to the Grace Abides podcast with Nick and Andy, where we explore life and faith through God's word one chapter at a time. Hey Andy, how are you today up in Minnesota?
SPEAKER_00Are you guys still buried in snow? Nick, I'm doing awesome. I can't ski anymore, but uh it's gonna be like 67 here today. We don't even know what to do with that.
SPEAKER_0167? That's like our that's that's or should we say 6'7? Is that that did they do that up in Minnesota? The kids still do that here, but uh that that's like the our low for today.
SPEAKER_00Oh, is that your low?
SPEAKER_01We broke a record this weekend, 95 degrees. 95 degrees.
SPEAKER_00Oh, wow. You know, it sounds awesome to me, but I'm pretty sure I'd be miserable pretty fast. Is that how it works?
SPEAKER_01It's pretty hot. Yeah, so you don't want to do much outside at 95 degrees. But hey, guess what, Andy? We are doing Revelation 7 today, which means we are almost a third of the way through the book of Revelation.
SPEAKER_00Oh no. When will it be done, Nick? When will it be done?
SPEAKER_01That's a isn't that what we're trying to answer here with the book of Revelation? When will it be done?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, you are right. You know that I'm not the biggest fan of Revelation. I I do it because I'm I'm gonna learn something, and maybe that's why the listeners are here and I'm totally open to working because you like this book, right? And I'm kind of like, oh man. Uh I go ahead.
SPEAKER_01It's better to understand it than to not understand it, it's my opinion. Because people will come and say stuff like, oh, Revelation says this, and that means this. And I go, well, no, no. So it's I don't know that I like Revelation, but it's I want to know Revelation because so many people misuse it.
SPEAKER_00Okay, that's that's a good point. That's an excellent point. I had somebody just this week said, why don't you ever preach in Revelation? And what I wanted to say is because I don't want to. But I I have done series on the way back in the early 2000s when I was in Chicago. They, you know, the Left Behind books were gigantic, they were huge. And so I just preached a series called Left Behind. I didn't obviously take the same viewpoint, but I took on all the same topics and unpacked them. And Lutherans kind of we do talk about the end of the world. It's just nobody knows it. It's called Advent. But so Nick.
SPEAKER_01Well, my uh at the end of the last podcast, we finished and and when you and I were talking, and you go, are we almost done? And I'm like, Andy, do you know how many chapters are in the book of Revelation? No, I have no idea. I have no idea. I think my Bible has 22 chapters.
SPEAKER_00I don't know about yours, but uh mine mine has uh I don't know, summary version.
SPEAKER_01We'll get through it. Oh so here's the here's the big question what's gonna happen first? We get through Revelation or Jesus comes back.
SPEAKER_00Hopefully Jesus comes back, but uh I don't know. We'll find out. All right.
SPEAKER_01Okay, Revelation chapter seven. Let's jump right in, the 144,000. So I can't wait to hear what Andy has to say about that. All right, starting at verse one, verses one through four. After this, I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth, so that no wind could blow on earth or sea or against any tree. I saw another angel ascending from the rising of the sun, having the seal of the living God, and he called with a loud voice to the four angels who had been given power to damage earth and sea, saying, Do not damage the earth or the sea or the trees until we have marked the servants of our God with a seal on their foreheads, and I heard the number of those who were sealed, one hundred and forty-four thousand, sealed out of every tribe of the people of Israel. So the phrase the four corners of the earth. Before we get to that the four corners of the earth. So I mean it I I know what we're supposed to think. It means that you know, like it's equivalent to the ideas of like all four points of the compass, it's everywhere. But uh back then they thought the world was flat, right? And the thought they thought the world world actually had four corners, and so John seeing this vision sees a flat world with the angels at the four corners. So when people say like, well, the vision from Revelation has to be um it has to it has to happen like that. Well, I'm sorry, the world's not flat. So the the world doesn't actually have four corners, so maybe John's vision was a little bit like what God was trying to get him to see, and a little bit like what he thought about the world. So uh just an interesting interesting aside, okay. But so we have the the angels at the four corners of the earth. Um so the idea of the four points of the compass, right? Angels to the north, to the south, to the east, to the west, uh, and that these angels um have the power to affect the entire earth. So, Andy, first question of the day. Do you think angels are at work in the world today? And if so, where?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, absolutely. Why uh absolutely I believe that. And uh a couple of uh reasons, couple of concepts, uh then I'm gonna talk about what angels do. But the first concept is Jesus, in his speaking and teaching, assumed a spiritual world that kind of in our Western scientific world is not assumed. Jesus assumed a world beyond what we could see and feel and necessarily know, at least through, you know, um physical means. And I think that uh he assumed a spiritual world. And I think that's pretty powerful. And angels are one of the ways today that we often talk about uh that spiritual world being at work among us. One of the things that I think you and I have talked about is people when they die do not become angels. Uh and I think we've covered that in the past, but we do believe that angels are out there working. And well, in what way? I just want to give some of the you know scriptural references to that first. I mean, it's through protection and guidance. God commands his angels, is something that we see in scripture. Psalm 91, he'll command his angels concerning you. Psalm 34, the angel of the Lord encamps around those who fear him, and he delivers them. I mean, angels are giving guidance. Angels gave specific directions uh uh to Paul and Philippians, uh, in or was it Philip? I'm trying to remember, encouraging, you know, Paul during a shipwreck. Uh, and angels we see serving and ministering all over scripture in Hebrews 1. Uh, ministering spirits are sent out to serve. Matthew 18, Jesus talks about angels uh uh helping children see the face of his father in heaven. I think I'm remembering that right. Uh, angels interacting. I remember when I was uh uh associate pastor in Milwaukee, and and we had Youth Sunday and we had our high school kids get up and preach, and that's what one of them preached on. And I remember his story specifically because he has since died, but he he spoke about how powerful it was to, you know, being excited about the faith because in Hebrews 13 it talks about how some of entertained angels unaware. And you know, commentators on that talk about how it's probably referencing something in uh uh Genesis 18 about um visitors to Abraham. And then we see also spiritual warfare. Uh Jesus will send his angels, it says, to gather out of his kingdom, causes of sin and lawbreakers. So, yes, I think angels are at work in the world. What Burris excites me the most, that I think is really the most powerful for me, is that Hebrews 13 one that, you know, you could be talking to a stranger and it could literally be an angel. And I also kind of am um kind of excited by the fact that the culture is pretty excited about angels. I mean, if you want to get a big turnout on Sunday, you know, and worship, preach on angels sometimes, they will come out because there's an innate curiosity, uh, there's spiritual curiosity. People sort of know intuitively and want to uh hear about this reality of angels. Nick, I could go on, but what what are your thoughts on all that?
SPEAKER_01I agree with everything you said. I I I I'm reminded of I think a scene from the newsroom like 20 years ago where they talk about um how great America is, and and Jeff Daniels says, like, you know, there's only two things that America leads the world in, and one I don't remember, and the other one is the belief in the existence of angels. And he said it like in a negative way. Like it's supposed to be this negative thing about us that we believe in angels. And to me, I think it's it's a really cool thing that we believe that we believe that there are powerful, positive presence that there's that that I didn't mean for that to be three P's, but that there is there's a powerful positive, powerful presence.
SPEAKER_00Yes. Positive. That's four, Nick. You got four going there.
SPEAKER_01That we can't see, uh, or um, you know, maybe some people can see. I don't know. Maybe some people have the gift of sight to see, but that that there is something there that is helping us, that is protecting us, that is um guiding us, that is teaching us and leading us and all those things. Uh I I think it's a a great uh I think it's a great comfort to to believe in angels and to to know that we may be encountering an angel. And we probably have encountered an angel at some point in our life and didn't know it. I think that's great. And you know, to me, you see, and I'm sure you've been through this and where you visit someone on hospice and you see hospice workers and you and and you see all these people who do these behind-the-scenes things where they show such love and care for people, and it's like, man, to me, those people are angels, right? There or or to think that there are people that have a capacity to love and care for people who are you know it going through the worst worst things, um, and then to think that there are angels around us who are even have a greater capacity to love and care for people, uh, to me it's uh it's a great comfort. So yeah. Um okay. Continuing, another angel had a seal, and he sealed the people of God by making a mark on their forehead. By making a mark on their forehead. Andy, have you ever made a mark on someone's forehead? Is that something you something we do?
SPEAKER_00Every time I do a baptism, Nick.
SPEAKER_01Yes, yes, Ephesians 113 says, Having believed you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise. So we make a mark on people's forehead and we say you are sealed by the Holy Spirit and marked with the cross of Christ forever. What do we mean when we say that, Andy?
SPEAKER_00You know, Nick, it's kind of cool that there are all kinds of biblical metaphors for baptism. And every time we do a baptism, before that, we have what we call here the baptism orientation. It's like our class. And the main thing that I want to do, in addition to talking, doing a walkthrough and the logistics and all of that, is walking them through all of the biblical metaphors for baptism. And, you know, one of them, the big one really for me is adoption being claimed by remembering that God is doing something in baptism. And that, you know, to be honest, is kind of a foreign concept. I mean, the thinking on baptism that has really gained momentum and energy and movement in our nation, at least over the past, you know, decades, has been the notion that we're doing something in baptism. It's, you know, going public is some of the language for that. And I don't want to get into a big debate about that. And I could see uh, you know, aspects supporting both sides. But really, what Lutherans believe is that baptism is God's action because if it's only our action, well then, I mean, what's the point? And so this is an important uh passage, an important reference that we're being claimed uh, you know, by God, that we're being sealed by the Holy Spirit, that we're being marked with the cross of Christ forever, and that that uh is scriptural. And it was kind of interesting. I've had a number of county, I mean, we're in the the county I'm in is the largest uh by percentage evangelical county in all of um, you know, Minnesota. And it's probably, I mean, I'm guessing in your territory, Nick, there's an even higher percentage evangelical background or belief. But in Minnesota, at least, it's it's a real conversation that we have about baptism. And I've talked with people, it's why do you why do you baptize infants? What could they possibly understand? And that's out of an understanding that baptism is our doing. And we always emphasize that no, it's what God is doing, and it's really only what God does that matters anyway. Um, and um, you know, so it it's kind of fascinating because in our area, um, you know, being baptized as an adult is viewed by evangelicals as a sign of faith, and Luther saw it as a sign of a lack of faith that you don't actually trust God to act, that you've got to do something in addition to that. Uh, I can go on, Nick, but uh pretty interesting. What are your thoughts?
SPEAKER_01A couple years ago we did a baptism of a baby who slept the whole time. And I said, this is the perfect understanding of what baptism is. This child literally was asleep the whole time, had no did nothing. It was all God's doing. Uh, and so you know, that's that to me, that was the perfect understanding of baptism that just sleep through it. God's got it. And and I love the idea of being marked and sealed, right? You know, I Andy, you've seen the table that I built at my house, right? I love working with wood. I I like I love staining wood, and then I love putting something on it to seal it. You know, you stain the wood, you change the color, and then you put like a polyurethane over top to seal it, right? To so that whatever you put on it is going to be protected, nothing can come and take. And so, you know, to me, that's what baptism is. It's you make the sign of the cross on the forehead, and then you seal it with the with the Holy Spirit, meaning that because the Holy Spirit has sealed it on your forehead, there's nothing that can remove it, right? And so we make the sign of the cross and we seal it, nothing can remove it. We can't, you know, neither death nor life nor all those things can remove it. And so, you know, it you belong to God. The mark has been made on your forehead, and nothing can take it off. Uh, and I think that's such a powerful because I mean, because it's all what God does. It's all what God does, and and you know, nothing is more powerful than God.
SPEAKER_00Nick, I I kind of sounds like you've used that table as a sermon illustration before about baptism. Is it I have not, I've never.
SPEAKER_01It just but maybe someday in the future.
SPEAKER_00I was gonna ask if you actually brought that table uh into the sanctuary for to use as that sermon illustration, if you could get it out of your house.
SPEAKER_01Um I don't so so Andy, my Andy's the table that I built that Andy is referencing is uh 10 feet long by five feet wide, and I built it big enough to have uh 12 people around it, and uh no, it's not going anywhere.
SPEAKER_00It's uh I mean that table is built for a feast. Uh I mean it's awesome, a rock solid. I've sir I've actually, Nick, I've written a sermon at that very table, at the end of that table. Pretty rock solid sermon, I would say, too.
SPEAKER_01So and I think you've had a drink after a sermon. I think you're right.
SPEAKER_00So uh that is uh that's awesome. All right, Nick, any other comments about being sealed and marked by the Holy Spirit?
SPEAKER_01No, I mean that this is pure Lutheran stuff that we could go on all day about it. This is the stuff that gets Lutheran pastors excited.
SPEAKER_00And we have done podcasts on this in the past, although Nick, somebody was looking for some of our previous podcasts, and they they were looking only on the Grace Abides site. And the other podcast of ours was called and Where Can They Find Uh Topics There?
SPEAKER_01No Shortage of Questions podcast. Correct. I don't know if they're live or not. We need to uh we need to see if those are back live or not.
SPEAKER_00Okay, because we did a couple years on that. That was awesome. Yes, all right, Nick.
SPEAKER_01We'll see if we can get those live.
SPEAKER_00We'll see. Uh, we are moving ahead here. And Nick, this is actually the question that I'm most interested in in this chapter. And it says, you know, it's the 144,000 thing. You had it in the title there. And different groups have claimed, because Christians love to, you know, be the one where God's chosen. Uh they've claimed to be the 144,000. So, Nick, what do you say about that?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so the Jehovah's Witness, this is their thing, right? They claim to be the 144,000, and uh uh and then their numbers surpassed the 144,000. Like, no, that's my question. Who are we now? Uh now they say that the 144,000 is a select group of the Jehovah's Witness who go to heaven. Um so what do we know about the 144,000? Actually, Revelation 14 talks a little bit more about that. Uh uh This is what it says, four verses four and five of Revelation 14. It is these who have not defiled themselves with women, for they are virgins. These follow the Lamb wherever he goes, they have been redeemed from humankind as first fruits for God and the Lamb, and in their mouth no lie was found. They are blameless. So, uh they have not defiled themselves with women, so they're men, right? Uh they are uh seem to be children of Israel. Um they seem to be protected through the great ordeal. Uh they are celibate, but they are just the first fruits. They are the the beginning. They are not the only ones who are in heaven, they are not the only ones who get in. They are just the beginning, uh, and they are marked by their um the they told the truth, they are blameless, so integrity, faithfulness, uh all those things. So there are um what we can say about them, this is what David Goodzik said, uh that that it is best to see the 144,000 as specifically chosen Jewish people who came to faith come to faith in Jesus protectively sealed throughout the tribulation as a sign. So um they are heaven's capacity is not capped at 144,000, they are just the beginning. Um, and they are children of Israel who come to faith in Jesus, who are male virgins, who are known for integrity and faithfulness. And uh so there you go. That's what we got about the 144,000. Anything you want to add, Andy?
SPEAKER_00Oh, always something to add. I was just fascinated by this. When we had, when I was a kid, we had a kid from a prominent family quit the church and uh went Jehovah's Witnesses because of this actual passage. 144,000 wanted to make sure he was in. I think it might have had something to do with who he was marrying. But it was it was really curious because uh But if he wanted to have sex with his wife, he wasn't gonna be in. Okay, okay. Apparently, apparently. Glad you're on top of those things, Nick, because it's outside uh uh what I know about, because you know I'm a big revelation fan. But it was fascinating me that he was quitting our church over this passage. Uh, you know, and uh, you know, all I have to add is there are two views, uh, the literal and the symbolic. You can guess which one I'm on. But I'm kind of interested in the symbolic view. Some of the interpretation says that this is representative of the entire church through history. It's symbolic in that, you know, 12 is the people of God, the tribes, the 12 tribes of Israel, the tw times the 12 apostles, and and times a thousand, which would be a military unit. Uh, the and those combined, 144,000, make up the army of God, Nick. Uh so that's a symbolic uh that would make sense that they were all men then. Okay. Okay.
SPEAKER_01Because back then they wouldn't have women in the military. Okay. Unless you're Deborah. But but but this would be an interesting conversation to have with a Catholic priest because of the celibacy part of it.
SPEAKER_00Oh, okay, okay.
SPEAKER_01I would I would really and I you know, you you can ask the question jokingly, but I think it'd be it'd be a serious theological uh is is is heaven worth being celibate? Not having children. I mean, not knowing, you know, not knowing what it's like to be a parent, not um, you know, not having the intimacy of of a spouse, not all that stuff. You know, that's we we joke about that stuff, but that's that's part of the joy of life. And um you know, uh it it would be an interesting conversation to have with the Catholic priests. And I have I have a friend who was a Catholic priest and then during COVID uh stopped being a Catholic priest, and I haven't reached out to him and said, Hey, what happened? But I'd be curious to know. I'd be curious to know.
SPEAKER_00Good. By the way, I when I was in Chicago, I loved to, I learned to love the Catholics. And my biggest, biggest thing I love is there were lots of them that were attending my church. Because, and and and they we even had some people from a Catholic background in charge of communion, my the old school term altar guild. They were, but I love the Catholics, and here's why. They show up every Sunday for worship. They have the best worship attendance. They, you, it's Sunday, you are in church, and you've got all your kids. And when you're worried about having critical mass for attendance when you're just starting a church, man, that is awesome. The community I was in was 85% Catholic background. And what was also interesting about that, it was like 70% unchurched. All right, Nick, I'm getting us off topic.
SPEAKER_01Well, the current Pope is from Chicago. Did you meet him when you were there?
SPEAKER_00Uh I did not. I did not. I think it's cool. He was also the current Pope, a jazz musician. And there are all kinds of, I used to go to jazz clubs when I was in Chicago. You take the L, that's the elevated train into Chicago. And what was the what was the one really cool name? The green, oh, I can't remember the name of it. But uh buddy of mine was in serving in the north suburbs. I was serving in the south suburbs, and we'd meet at these jazz clubs. And and one night we went to hear jazz, and it was a poetry slam with jazz musicians uh playing on the side. And we just, you know, it was so packed in there. If there were any seats available at a table, you would ask to sit at them. And I sat down at a table, and who were the other people? They were all people connected with the um uh radio show, which was big at the time, uh This American Life with Iraqlass. And it was just awesome kind of the interactions. All right, next.
SPEAKER_01But to summarize, you you didn't meet the Pope.
SPEAKER_00I did not meet the Pope. No, I did not.
SPEAKER_01All right, verses nine and ten, the great multitude. So we have the 144,000, and then we have the great multitude. So it's not just Captain 144,000, there's the great multitude, uh, which is more than 144,000. Okay. Because verse 9, after this I looked, and there was a great multitude that no one could count, which is more than 144,000. Right? No one could count. Okay. From every nation, from all tribes, all peoples and languages, standing before the throne and before the lamb, robed in white, with palm branches in their hands, Andy. Palm branches.
SPEAKER_00All right, all right.
SPEAKER_01They cried out in a loud voice saying, Salvation belongs to our God who is seated on the throne and to the Lamb. So we have diversity here. All every nation, all tribes, all people, all languages, no one can count. The Great Commission has been fulfilled. The palm branches are waved to remind us of Jesus' triumphant entry uh into Jerusalem. Uh palm branches were emblems of victory. So, Andy, um, I don't know if I'm really asking this question for the listeners or for me because I'm trying to come up with a sermon for the Sunday. Palm Sunday this weekend is the triumphal entry a celebration, and what are we celebrating? What are we doing with Palm Sunday and Palms, Andy?
SPEAKER_00All right. Um, yeah, I sent out an email to the congregation this morning that this Sunday is like my favorite Sunday of the year, and it's just awesome. And uh we do palm processions at all three services, and uh it was kind of fun for me. It was so wild and just so packed. A couple of years ago, we had a visitor and she pulled me aside afterward. She said, uh, wow, is it is it like this uh every Sunday? We had like 50 to 100 kids walking forward with palms, you know, and and and the music is loud and it's triumphant and everybody's psyched up and it's energizing and everybody's standing up waving palms. And the big idea is Hosanna. My sermon title is in place. My outline's not done, Nick, but my sermon title, at least the draft title for it, is Hosanna. And the idea is why worship changes us. And uh, so I won't get into that. But Palm Sunday, if you're not familiar with it, Jesus entry into Jerusalem. The crowd is greeting them, they're spreading their cloaks and they're spreading palms on the road, they're yelling Hosanna. What is Hosanna? It's a cry for salvation, they're recognizing Jesus as King, and it's uh it's it's fulfillment of prophecy, uh, you know, the road on a donkey, fulfilling uh uh the prophecy in Zechariah, and uh so multiple levels of meaning. Uh, but one of the things I'm gonna get at, Nick, and it's tied to last Sunday I preached in Psalm 32, because we were off a week. Uh, but I talked in there, you know, God sets a table, you know, he prepares a table before me in the presence of my enemies. You know, in other words, that, you know, trusting Jesus even through the dark times, even through the valley of the shadow of death. Uh, I touched on that last Sunday, and this Sunday I'm gonna talk about how keeping our eyes in Jesus, even in the dark times, because Palm Sunday begins wild and victorious and loud and exciting, but it's leading toward you know the whole passion story. So, Nick.
SPEAKER_01So did I just hear you admit to you wrote a sermon for the Sunday where there was snow and then you didn't get to use it, so you held it off, held it back for a week.
SPEAKER_00Exactly, Nick. Exactly. And I said, There's no way. I'm gonna uh background, Psalm 32 was the uh Psalm for March 15. We didn't have church, so we all went to Emily's church. And but I said, There's no way I'm letting Psalm 23 go. Or yeah, Psalm 23 go. So I just reused that outline the following Sunday. Correct.
SPEAKER_01So you so did I tell you what we do in Texas when we cancel service?
SPEAKER_00Uh no.
SPEAKER_01We meet by Zoom and I preach anyway.
SPEAKER_00I I see, Nick, I gotta I delegate. So uh Emily is uh, I mean, uh she's gonna do it better than me anyway. That's what I used to tell you.
SPEAKER_01She's no longer on the payroll, but she's gonna keep working anyway.
SPEAKER_00That's right. Somebody said, How did you manage to get another sermon out of Emily? Uh we'll have her on the podcast sometime. Uh but uh yeah, it was pretty fun. But they loved it. And by the way, it I realized after the fact it was really good closure for the congregation on what was a powerful eight plus years that she was here. But good for all of us to see where it is that she's God's put her now. And uh so that was cool. Uh Nick, any thoughts? So I've been on that.
SPEAKER_01And as I was making like I made uh I made lunch in front of everybody and I was talking about life and how hard it is, and then as I finished, I finished it and I had the plate ready, and then I talked about how God prepares a table before us in the presence of our enemies, and the idea of that we we go through all the difficult times in life, and God is always there. And in what way is God there? You know, God is saying, Here, let's you and I just sit at this table for a minute. Let's let's take a break from all the stress of life, let's Sabbath together, let's what and uh uh I thought it was uh I I I I it was one of those things I didn't know if it was a very good sermon as I was thinking it up, but afterwards there were you know, some people were like, Oh, I loved that. So if you ever decide to do that, just uh just you know give Pastor Nick down in Texas did this once, and uh it it's a great image.
SPEAKER_00So awesome. But imagery is powerful, and imagery helps us remember. And I I really like what you're doing. By the way, I'm preparing a meal. My son Peter has been cooking in the mornings now before school, cooking breakfast, and I'm there at the table. So he uh he's been cooking me breakfast. It was awesome. Yesterday I had waffles. Today he cooked up eggs and pancakes. Like, wow, I'm very impressed by that.
SPEAKER_01So just to make just to make this point one more time, we're well yesterday we we finished a five-week series, five-week Bible study series on Moses. Moses is leading the people out of the out of Egypt, and they come to the point where the Sea of Reeds or the Red Sea, and the Israelites are behind them, and they the people are grumbling, why why did you lead us out? And and Moses says, God will protect you if you just but sit still. Okay. As opposed to running back, right? Running back to the life you lived. Sitting still is moving forward, uh, but just sit still and let God protect you. You know, you prepare a table before me in the presence of my enemies. There's just let's just pause for a moment and let God do what God is going to do.
SPEAKER_00Be beautiful. Be still and know that I am God. You know, why is it Lent is one of the seasons we try to do this? Why is it so difficult to understand that whole kind of concept? People, especially people, I don't know, on the outside or newer to the faith or generalized ideas, only see it as doing, as doing good works, as earning this the it it kind of misses the whole relational aspect of what you just named, which is sit still and let God but all right, Nick, back to Revelation here, verses 13 to 17. Then one of the elders addressed me, saying, Who are these robed in white? And where have they come from? I said to him, Sir, you are the one that knows. Then he said to me, These are they who have come out of the great ordeal. They have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Um For this reason they are before the throne of God and worship him day and night within his temple, and the one who is seated on the throne will shelter them. They will hunger no more and thirst no more, the sun will not strike them, nor any scorching ninety-five degree heat. For the lamb at the center of the throne will be their shepherd, and he will guide them to springs of the water of life, and God will wipe away every tear from their eyes. So, Nick, some people have heard those at those verses at funerals. So, Nick, a couple of thoughts. Uh, John didn't know what you should ask. One of the elders prompted him to ask the vast multitude of those rescued for God's kingdom in the period of the great ordeal. Nick, I don't know if we're in the great ordeal now. Sometimes it feels like it. In heaven, the redeemed worship God day and night. And in heaven, the redeemed will know the loving care of their savior. So, Nick, uh, what do you take from all that? What stands out to you?
SPEAKER_01Well, the first thing that stands out to me is I love that the elder says, Who are these robed in white and where have they come from? And John said, I don't know. You you're the one that knows. That he's like, Elder's like, let me tell you what question you should be asking. Let me tell you what you should be curious about. Uh I I just love that piece, but but from what I read is that this is what I get from it. Life is going to be hard. Life is going to be hard. There is going to be pain, there is going to be struggle, there is going to be grief, there is going to be doubt, there's going to be all those things. Life is going to be hard, but heaven is going to be a place of healing. It's going to be a place of healing. It's going to be a place of tranquility, a place of peace. Uh they will they will know the loving care of their savior, who will wipe away every tear from their eye. They will hunger no more. They will thirst no more. The sun will not strike them, nor any scorching heat. You know, life is going to there are going to be times where you are hungry. There are going to be times when you're thirsty. There's going to be times when you're stuck in the sun where there's scorching heat. We in Texas know what that's like, but that's not going to be what heaven is like. It's going to be a place of healing. It's going to be a place of worship. It's going to be a place of feeling connected. It's going to be a place where all the things that were broken or put back together, or all the joy that once you that you once knew will be given back to you. Uh where all the love you once knew will be given back to you. Um, and so it is truly something that we can look forward to. It is a heaven is going to be better than life today, no matter how good it is today. So uh that's what I get from there. Because no matter how good life today is, there's just there's still there's still reason for tears. Uh there, you know, we we still cry, we still we still go through difficult times, and and and and life is gonna be difficult. There's no promise that life on this earth isn't is is gonna be easy for people of faith, but heaven is gonna be uh wonderful. Andy, what are your thoughts?
SPEAKER_00Well, I hate to add anything to that, nicely put. Uh, you know, it's just striking me, aren't you, in like scorching heat right now in March 95? Did you say it's gonna be?
SPEAKER_0195, yeah.
SPEAKER_00So you're living through this. I don't know what that says about you guys. It's pretty nice here. Uh, but what strikes, you know, what stands out to me most about this passage, just a couple of things. The strangest thing is this washing robes in blood uh that are made white by uh the blood of the Lamb. Purity isn't through our effort, but through Jesus' death, is kind of the idea there, I think. Uh and the most um powerful uh to me is verse 17 and 16 as well, which is moving from suffering to total comfort, the complete reversal of human suffering, uh, the end of physical need, and the shepherd uh becoming the lamb. Uh, you know, all kinds of imagery there to kind of portray uh who Jesus is and what Jesus does for those who follow him. Nick?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's kind of what you didn't ask me. I asked you, but you didn't ask me kind of what I'm preaching about this weekend.
SPEAKER_00Okay. I want to know though, because I need material. What are you preaching about?
SPEAKER_01But it is a celebration, right, of Jesus coming, and then there's one week of like great disappointment for the people because Jesus dies, and they're like, this isn't what we were celebrating. This isn't what we thought was going to happen. But Good Friday is the day that God deals with our death, with our sin, right, through his death. And so we are made pure by the blood that is spilt on Good Friday. And so we talk about the three things that God does for us is right, sin, eternal life, and presence of God to help us through life. Um, you know, the defeating sin and death and the devil, right? And so that's Good Friday. And then eternal life is the promise of Easter morning, and then the the promise of God being with us is the story of Pentecost. Um, and so it this great week of disappointment that we think is like, well, that's not that's not what we weren't celebrating a God or a king who was gonna come and die, uh, but but we didn't know what we needed. And and God says, I I know what you need, and that's what's good, that's what I'm gonna do for you. Um, I think that's a it's a powerful week we have coming uh coming up with Holy Week, starting uh starting this Sunday and then uh leading to Easter Sunday. So I'm I'm really excited about it. I best week of the year, busiest week of the year. Uh, but uh I'm excited to um to see people whose family you know come in town. We only see them a couple times a year, maybe once a year. It's just a good time to be the church. So excited about that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it'll be super fun. Nick, and so if I'm hearing you right, you preach on Good Friday.
SPEAKER_01Yes, you don't preach on Good Friday?
SPEAKER_00No, we do, we sing on Good Friday. We do a cantata and then uh we do seven last words. But yeah, I've often thought, man, that would be a good time to yeah, you nailed the Good Friday message here. That would be a good message. But though more people come out if it's singing, though. If someone else is singing, not me preaching, Nick.
SPEAKER_01You can sing and preach in the same service.
SPEAKER_00I suppose, yeah. You could we do that every Sunday, Andy. Okay, well, you in the same service, but uh maybe not during the sermon. Have you ever sung during a sermon, Nick? Me?
SPEAKER_01Nobody wants to hear me sing.
SPEAKER_00I know. See, the same deal.
SPEAKER_01You you sing in the choir, though, don't you?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Uh I used to sing in the choir, absolutely. But uh it was just one more I'm going in every direction, so I don't sing in the choir anymore. I gotta I got enough to worry about.
SPEAKER_01You know what I love about doing podcasts with Andy? I uh if you're a member of Cambridge Lutheran and you're you watch Andy preach and he gets his arms going as he's preaching, I just want you to know that those arms are still going during the podcast. I mean, they're everywhere. He's like sometimes I think he's like waving down a uh an Uber driver or something. He just go with those arms. He's got things to say. I love it.
SPEAKER_00That is awesome. That's hysterical. Uh but uh Nick, I don't go out and preach without any notes, you know, kind of just uh, you know, vulnerable in front of all the people like uh like you did uh Sunday or two ago if you were out there. So good work, good work.
SPEAKER_01Well, if I was gonna go 45 minutes, I'd need a note or two.
SPEAKER_00I'm getting in trouble. You know what I did last Sunday? I went, and by the way, we can't this is not good. We can't do this, but you get so excited about a sermon. I think I said, okay, guys, how long I go after like second or third. They say, Oh, you know, that one was 39. So we we're like, it's almost becoming the norm to go uh 40, you know, somewhere around 40 minutes.
SPEAKER_01So what do you think the members of Cambridge Within Church are more excited about? Getting out on time or a sermon that you think is really good that you're gonna add 15 extra minutes to?
SPEAKER_00Nick, it doesn't matter. I'm gonna I'm gonna preach as the Lord is here at leads. It doesn't matter what they think. It's worked for 25 years, although we haven't gone that long historically. But uh yeah, it was pretty wild. So yeah, it was a wild Sunday. Last Sunday we had new mics in the sanctuary, and that was really cool. And then uh just ironically, the whole the whole tech system collapsed in the other room in the comments. And and then either a couple of you know, trying to fix stuff, sometimes it gets worse. And so I love our tech mics.
SPEAKER_01I don't know why I guess we're all getting new mics before Easter.
SPEAKER_00We are. It's a good idea, actually. We really needed the mics in our sanctuary, and the sound guys always said they're fine, they're fine, why fix them? But when they began cutting out, we got new mics in there. They had been they those the are the lab mics in the sanctuary had been here longer than I have. I'm in my 25th year, so it was time to upgrade.
SPEAKER_01So that that then we know we are now going through the great ordeal when the mics start cutting out. That's right. That's right. All right, Andy. We will be back next week. We will we will be here during Holy Week. We will look at Revelation chapter eight, and uh officially next week we'll be more than a third of the way through, so we're getting there.
SPEAKER_00All right. It's gonna be a while, but uh thanks, Nick. See ya.
SPEAKER_01Bye.