Ep 35:Should Sports Stars be Role Models with Petero Civoniceva.

Should sports stars immediately be made to be role models? Just because you can kick a ball does that mean kids should look up to them?
Ryno chats to Rugby League Legends Petero Civoniceva and Graham Olling about society's desire to make young sports stars be perfect. Is it fair??

#NRL #rugbyleague #football #sport #nohumbleopinions #straighttalk #rynosway #unpopularopinion  #unpopularopinions #podcast #podcastlife #podcastrecommendations #podcastseries #politicallyincorrect #politicalcorrectness

Transcript

0 (0s):
Hi there, Ryno here from the podcast. No humble opinions where we talk about things that other people don't want to talk about. I'm here today with two special guests that I'll introduce to very shortly. And we are sponsored today by Crew legal from kippa ring.

1 (14s):
<inaudible>

0 (25s):
Well, gang, I'm very happy to be talking to two cool cats today. Two legends of league, and I'm from AFL land. And even I know that legends of league. So there you go. I want to welcome Graham Olling guy, Graham. How are you buddy? Good mate. Good, good. And Petero Civinoceva good. We'll get into your name. Surely, cause we just had a good laugh about that, but Graham, just your background quickly. You okay. So you started playing professionally in 72. Was that?

2 (51s):
Yeah, I'd sign with Eastern suburbs. I was a permanent junior, played a lot of me, Janie football at, at seven Hills where I grew up and went from near to what the Phil went to the, the Pamela district Aggrey competition. And from then that's when they had the second of his nanny. The following year went into second division and, and then we w we won the Aggrey grand final in that was 70 and 71 when the executive vision green phone and ours apprised a number of clubs. And I ended up Ghana, ACE and servers for three years.

0 (1m 31s):
We've been approached by the club team. Oh, I tasted teams here as well, which is nice to be back to my team today. How are you? I'm good brother. Good. And you're Australian representative as well.

2 (1m 41s):
Yes, I've applied. I applied for this city Sydney and new South Wales and Australia and the circuit in 77 trillion sword for the that's where NAFA Bates and pulled out and they took him and they sent him to get it on a flight and go over to New Zealand with the world cup side. And then I, I was selected in a first two tests and against New Zealand at, in Australia. And then I never played the third one third one. I think that the reason why they wanted to put, they want to try on a couple of other players and, and for Nancy who they also then marinade on the kangaroo too.

2 (2m 27s):
Anyway, it was one of the props in the first two tests. And I got injured in, in the second test and, and miss the third and then

0 (2m 36s):
Pretty sure he did a few injuring other blokes too, from what I've read up

2 (2m 43s):
Now to get them poms. I end up with them being the gash in me, in me cheek in the first test. No, I slept in Elba.

0 (2m 53s):
No, that's fine. I'm sure you do it for you out there. Thanks for that, mate. Just, I'm getting a bit of background on you, Pedro. You started with 98. I think off the top of my head had a little stint in pain with, for wall, which was probably due to circumstances beyond your control at that time, from what I have read up. And I might, you represented Australia Queensland for like, honestly, it's almost dull going through everyone you've represented. It was every very odd or

3 (3m 16s):
Like that. Yeah. Yeah. Look, it's the, it's been great to me. I'll, you know, grew up loving the game and you know, it was fortunate that, you know, all those, you know, you're kicking the footy around as a kid here in red cliff. And next thing you know, you know, those dreams are starting to be realized and you get an opportunity to play in RL and then everything else from there as a bonus. I mean, that, that was just the ultimate for me. And, you know, playing a bit of rip footy and like, you know, this, some ground talk about, you know, in lucky to play, play rip fully. It's a, you know, it's everything that you want in the game. And you know, when you finally get that opportunity to pull on those jerseys and represent whether it's, you know, in the state of origin or playing for your country, it's the ultimate.

3 (3m 60s):
Yeah, yeah,

0 (4m 1s):
Yeah. I mean, look, I thought it was really cool when I, one under twelves grant fallen on hockey. That was my crowning. I've won a few scenes in basketball. We're lucky there. I think it was like a division or something, but it was good fun. But now I look and I am jealous and most people are. And that, that sort of brings me on to why I wonder you guys on here today, if at all possible look, it'd be very easy to do a whole podcast on your achievements, both of you and stories, not stuff, which man, we should just go to the pub and do that. That'd be pretty cool, but I want to bring something up with you guys. And as somebody that troubles me a little bit about the way media and our society is with sport. Now, I don't know if it's always been like this and, and growing and being a little bit older than, than patron myself.

0 (4m 46s):
That might, you might be to help us with that there. But the, the mad desire for people is for sports people to be role models, to younger people and people in society. Now, all guy first in, in the fact that <inaudible>, don't think it's Fe I think that being able to throw a ball or, you know, Donka ball or being great at golf or whatever it is on that doesn't necessarily mean that you're a great person and it doesn't necessarily mean that you should be held up as a role model for young kids to be like, I would be very interested to discuss in a, in the next period of time, how you guys feel about it, how you see it and what it was like back in the day.

0 (5m 31s):
I mean, for me initially, I thought I see a young fella, who's good looking fit, young guy, getting paid, fricking heaps to do what he loves doing. Anyway. He's got girls hanging on off him every which way, and he's getting everything for free. So he'll wear them, whatever that I think you pretty, you probably fairly, it's understandable that your ego gets a little bit out of control show and the EMS behave Patriot. I mean your modern era sort with lots of media or Andrew all the time. You've had cameras probably in positions where you think this could go pear shaped, taught at night, but Mike, what's your thoughts? I mean, what's it like being under that spotlight all the time as a young fellow?

3 (6m 10s):
I definitely understand where you're coming from. You look all I'm on of the mindset that when you get an opportunity and you're, you're privileged enough to be paid well to do it. If you know, that's what the game requires you to be, to be a role model. Well, I think that's, that's acceptable for me and, and it's something that's always set. So with me, not, not so much with other blacks and obviously, you know, we we've seen that in history of, of, of, of game or modern game, especially as the game would professional. There were blokes that, you know, was, it was, it was hard for them to understand around the, the requirements around, you know, what were, what clubs wanted out of you and obviously to represent their brand, represent the club, the community, whatever it is.

3 (6m 53s):
And, and, and again, I understand, you know, where they coming from from, for me, it, it wasn't a problem. And, and I would, as, as I said, challenge for all the fellows, you obviously having to be very mindful of, of, of what, what you do and your, your behaviors, and obviously away from footy, it's a challenge and idea because you know, probably talking about grinds days where, you know, you could have a beer and, you know, it could be a larrikin and, and you didn't have someone with a telescopic find that lens, standing outside the pub, you know, wanting to see what you were doing next, you know, so it's amazing how the game was as evolved. But in saying that there, there are challenges that go with it.

3 (7m 33s):
And especially as the more and more media scrutiny there is around the game, Hey, you know what, it, we're never going to get a ride. There's always going to be young followers that unfortunately just make you know, wrong decisions, decisions that just mainly what other young blokes do. Yeah.

0 (7m 49s):
Yeah. I was going to say, it's just life though. Like, man, I'm so glad I grew up when I deed and no one saw me or had any cameras around when I was acting the fool, which I'm still inclined to do occasionally, to be honest, but it's frowned upon. I know, but anyway, it's all right. This dodgy keep in mind, takes me out of that bit of that business. But the guy mate, you're in the seventies and you're sitting here as a, you know, well-respected player, well-known guy, international player and lots of stuff there. What was your expectation to bear <inaudible>? Was it a different time back then?

2 (8m 20s):
I was unheard of, then it was really, it was because no one ever said anything bad has been role models. I think it was more sort of Olympic gangs. People competed in the Olympic games were more role models and what rugby league players were, or I'd be in class. And, you know, w we just, as, as grew up as in playing in the, in the juniors and all that sort of stuff, it was a sort of game where it's a, it's a gladiator sport, you know, it's, it's still is now, but not probably not the, the viciousness that it was back in. When I applied <inaudible>, it'd be sort of mid tackle someone and then played guests somewhere else in next minute, he just started off jogging back in position in the next minute you get whacked and get intermittent in the back of the air.

2 (9m 10s):
And he turned around and looked at it on the linesman and that'd be up the other end of the food.

0 (9m 15s):
Yeah. You still say, would you go move on? Move on.

2 (9m 19s):
To be honest, I never, I never did that. Or really know things like any other things is I've been there, but it didn't someone from me online that is a dog. Yeah. Eh, it doesn't meet two or $3 lost out of the land who was beyond me and never came in on. But yeah, it was a tough game back then. And that was a really tough game. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Elbows, knees. Yeah. Fingers in their eyes in getting bitten.

0 (9m 52s):
Yeah. Which is yeah. Frowned upon, but, okay. So after the game, would you just go for a BLG back in the day

2 (10m 0s):
It was after the game and get gaffer B and M Tuesday nights was just trying to notch back then. And Tuesday nights and Thursday nights, and paramedics had more at ACE when Jack Gibson come on, it was Saturday mornings as an extra trend session. And at back at Penn, when I went back to Paramatta in 75, yeah. We had, we used to, it was Tuesdays, Thursdays. Then we, we, when sometimes we'd have a Saturday morning. Right.

0 (10m 33s):
So if you go to the pub after a game, there was no one watching you, was it particularly, and it was there anyone ever have a crack at you or anything like that, knowing who you were and all that stuff, because that's the sort of stuff that I see now that, you know, there's some Piquet in the bar that wants to prove himself by taking on, you know, Adelaide player, I guess when you're playing the community though, that you guys were looked up to and respected by.

2 (10m 54s):
Yeah. Yeah. So w we, we, we, everyone worked and we like, after training on Tuesday nights, we always went down to pub day. We had at least four or five schooners, at least that on Thursday nights has probably half a dozen or more, you know, and that was just partying. You'll mix. Oh, you're always mixing with the public and you did any angle enough for the game. And there was a lot I used to get around and, and talk to different people in the club get would have done it, you know it, and I had no one's ever put Jordan to give me any out. Yeah.

0 (11m 33s):
Yeah. Well, you pitcher, I mean, I see you ran our community here and you, the stuff you do, you know, to help people in the community is wonderful, but just saying you to bar on our stuff, it's, it's pretty easy going. And it was interesting the other day up at, at sunny with Darren Lockyer there and a few others there as well. I know it was to be pretty, pretty casual was pretty cool in that, but I mean, we're not 22 either, and we're not at a nightclub. And my, what, what have you, have you seen much of that behavior by the public, even league guys a hard time, or try to attempt them almost,

3 (12m 7s):
Oh God. You know, again, listening to grime, I mean, to be able to mix in the community log that w would have been fantastic because I guess United you, there's no chance to be arrogant and get your head in the clouds because you're with everyday people and you're an everyday person cause you're working. Whereas I think obviously with the challenge of gone professionals, we created a bubble now for these bugs to live in that it's devoid of reality, you know, and, and it's a real big learning curve for a lot of blokes that unfortunately, that haven't had real good life experience. So when they do finally finish the game, all of a sudden I'm looking around and I'm what the hell is going on. Oh man. I want to talk to you about that short term. That's a concern. Yeah.

3 (12m 47s):
Yeah. I guess you're you're as you get older in the game and, and look, I got to experience, I guess, a bit of what Graham was talking about now, great days, you know, I love after transition going back to the pub and having a couple of beers. But obviously as that guy, as a solid guy, professional, all that stuff got knocked on the head. And you know, again, you know, was, was the opportunity only to have a beer. I was after a game. And then now in the current day for these lollies young blacks, I mean, they, they, they like the rice horses. They basically walk off the field, I've got the nutrition, they've got the fluids, I've got to get down this now alcohol. Well, the time I walk out of the dressing rooms, the whole, the crowd's gone. There's no one, there I go home and they get prepared for the next guy.

3 (13m 28s):
That's, that's pretty much what a slog. So I guess when, when blacks are playing up or, well, you know, when they want to have a beer, young likes it, they, they do it in one big, big guy, you know, and this is where they get in trouble is because they haven't had any alcohol for such a long time. Whereas I guess, you know, we, we, we, we were, we were foreign to Natalie, but we could hold it on this feed myself. <inaudible> been me. Yeah. I think with, with <inaudible>, as he said that, that other other night, you know, I think obviously we're, we're a bit older now we've been out of the game and we, one thing I've always wanted is that if you give people respect, the respect will always come back and always be mindful of that, even when I'm out having a beer and having a good time for mine so that, you know, it doesn't mean you can be a goose

0 (14m 16s):
Now and it's, well, let me ask you something else too. And what is, okay, what is life like on that for these, these sports fan these days, like you design and treat them like a Ray horse, race, horse base name, pop them away in their stable or their room or whatever it is. I hear a lot of them display PlayStation all day when they're not doing it. What do we eat experiences? Like there must be, as you say, it's just, it's not reality in any way, shape or form. So do apart from clubs, kicking people's ass, when they screw up and finding them and doing this sort stuff there declares make any effort to provide sense of reality or to, you know, to even that out a little bit. I'm not sure.

3 (14m 55s):
Yeah, they do. And obviously as time has gone on, I mean, I David 98 and, and, you know, we're just sort of getting in that sort of professional realm. So clubs at that time, probably weren't really engaging community. And obviously looking at the welfare of pliers, it was just all about, you know, performance and all that kind of stuff. But you fast forward that to the current day players. I mean, you know, they're encouraged to, to, to, you know, chase education opportunities, whether that's through TAFE or, or, or, or uni, and then also too, there's, there's opportunities to partner in with sponsorship sponsors that, you know, might have whatever business they might have in and apply them. What guys spend some time with them, which is great. But yeah, there's a real encouragement of that.

3 (15m 36s):
And then also to the whole community aspect of as well. So whether the school visits and community visits, whatever it is, Ghana, hospitals, all those sorts of things. Look that's it, which is great. But, but again, when you, when you think about, you know, as grind was signed, when you're mixing with the public all the time, it, it, you know, it gives you that sense of reality a bit, you know, what's, what are the issues that happened in the community at the moment, because you are part of the community. Whereas nowadays, as I said, you know, they, they get locked away and it's, it is hard to get a sense of reality and build those community connections that, that are so important, you know, especially when you, you do walk away from the game.

0 (16m 12s):
Yeah. No NBI has got a, an interesting, I'm not sure the details on it, but they spend a lot of time. And my now teaching their young players how to handle finances because a lot of these guys were earning millions and the money they own, it's just decompress, but they come out of it broke all the time because they just had no idea how to handle it. And now, and I mean, if a lot of them are coming out of very, very low socioeconomic families and all of a sudden they've got all these extra friends who suddenly turn up and again, and they onboard. And so they put in these things in place to teach these guys how to handle it and do all this stuff. They, which I think, I mean, hello, how the world changes, but what a good thing that they're doing is to do that.

0 (16m 55s):
So I don't know if the NRL has England, but like my, my D but I, haven't got a question for you. You, in your, after your playing days, you coached and you coached here in Reiki for a little while. Didn't, you know, what was, what, what you use with ice. Can you remember? Or

2 (17m 12s):
I think it was, it was 80, 85. I was appraised. Cause we often, I moved up here, we bought a fitness center on the peninsula and was the only one on the peninsula at that time. And we, we actually were quite successful with it. And anyway, a lot of the reckless guys were coming, come on down and try and in the gym, moving your

3 (17m 35s):
<inaudible>

2 (17m 39s):
Top. Like, and yeah. And so I was, I was approached to ask if I wanted get involved with, with coaching when the low grade Sarge and I, Oh, fair enough. I think it was good and fair enough. Delbert. I had three, three seasons down at captain catch down at Tamara and the river in a new South Wales whilst we never won a green and fallen loss Philly successful there, we got the finals and, and I brought a lot of young players up and

0 (18m 12s):
Changing names into what way? Sort of, so I'm, I don't know, that's a little bit, it's still a little early on in the late eighties or whatever it was, but what tone was changing them? Cause you're dealing with young fellows there that it will be in for someone to figure out how the world works and unfold fortunately, or unfortunately, sometimes a coach can be eaten. What was that? Was there any change in the airborne or

2 (18m 33s):
What I noticed was the changing in the coaching styles and, and they, you know, always sort of used to the Jack Gibson top stuff and, you know, the, the plays in the, you know, the, the greed work and all that sort of stuff. And now they're over, there was a lot more extension or that sort of stuff. So I went and did my certificate three and I thought I'd try and upgrade a bit more knowledge and all that sort of stuff. But here it was, it was, it was moving fast

0 (19m 5s):
Really quickly. Then what about, was there any work, so did you do any work off the field for, with the, with your players or was it all just on-field stuff for you?

2 (19m 14s):
It was just my only on Philadelphia only offered stuff was Dan the gym. You know, I, it was, it was really funny. I, I think I was talking to you, we lost him. I was talking together. I was talking about the attitude applies towards whites. And when I can come up here directly for you at the gym, I'd try and nun, her, a guy who'd trained, Olympic lifting and all that sort of stuff. And I'm in, I'm in Sydney. And that was where our fan I've got the, the more benefit of training with whites and the him, because it was working on all the core muscles.

2 (19m 54s):
Anyway, I, when I started, I set the gym up with, with Timor power X, there was a, there was one power rack there. And then with the Olympic bars and all that sort of stuff. So I, I put a couple of extra in, in a couple extra bars in, and when I was getting the players to do things like heavy squatting, not high repetition and deadlifts, powerless, all that sort of stuff, lifting stuff that none of them wanted to do it. They just wanted to do the high repetition bodybuilding stuff. And, and, and it's fun. It's easy enough when, when the bronchioles went in and a Newcastle and all that went in and, and man, it took over and all that sort of stuff.

2 (20m 39s):
And then they started all doing all the sanctions.

0 (20m 42s):
Oh, sorry. We run a bit of a told you sideways. I didn't get an to say that. Yeah. Well, it's interesting how times change that Pedro, what's it with these guys with these young blokes said it. I said, ah, getting the attention and getting the dollars and all this stuff. Do they have a lot of gardens in the clubs to help them? Like, I mean, I'll give you some more story. I lost my parents early dad left and I was seven months old when I was nine. I've talked to them before and here. And, and I went for about five, six, seven years of bang, fairly wayward and having some dramas. And I finally picked up a really great role model, who is my foster dad now still?

0 (21m 26s):
And I, he says, it tells a story about me joining the cops. And it was an interview. And I've said this on this show before, sorry, but it was interview. And anyway, we're at home. And the interviewee says, the interviewer says to me, Ryan, why should we have you? And I was 18. And I was looked at and said, well, I don't know. I like fast cars and chicks dig uniforms. And I love a fight and all this other stuff. And my foster dad at the time said, do you mind if I answer this? And his answer was, it's like this, you can have him on your team or it can be on the other team, which one do you want? And that was a really he's influence on me is never ending. And I, with these young guys, you know, if they come from a family where there is no direction, the, I mean, your, your dad was a role model to you.

0 (22m 11s):
And then I've heard you speak highly of him, plenty of times on this stuff there. But if you don't have that ease their opportunity, fleece blokes to be led well, I mean, if you just take them out and put them on the paddock and then feed them properly and stick them in a room to play PlayStation, is that, is that giving them good life experience to deal with when they're not under, you know, when they not got some episodes? Yeah.

3 (22m 32s):
Although I guess I was lucky in, when I went to the club, there were a lot of senior players around us, you know? And so I got to watch them really closely, always tell the story. All right. I don't recognize spike for the first couple of years when I was at the Broncos, because I was that bloody nervous. And because a lot of them that were my heroes, they were blokes that I was clicking the autographs, you know, you know, going to school here at Redcliffe. And, you know, when they'd come into town, you'd, you'd line up with all the other kids, get the autographs and that. So, yeah, again, for me, there, there was a real opportunity to sort of be around those top role models in, and obviously you talk about the influence of your coaches and, you know, and in a nightmare, you know, grind would have had a great impact on the players that he had under him.

3 (23m 12s):
But for me, you know, I was lucky I had Wayne Bennett there who I guess really had a real strong focus for us as young blokes, not just on the footie field, but also to offer. And, you know, that's probably the Al copper and him, you know, understanding, you know, the, the, the, the challenges of, of, you know, leading young men is about, you know, making sure that, you know, they've got a good support network around them. So for conversation with Wayne in those early days was all around, you know, life, parents in our, what, what, what are you doing outside of footie? What did you think? One, what does he want to know all this stuff? And then obviously as you get older and you start to understand these ways is that, you know, he, he cares a lot about, about these young blokes.

3 (23m 53s):
He also understands that if they're, CIRTL off the football field, nine times out of 10, they're going to be good on it. So that was a big focus for him. So, yeah, I guess I was pretty lucky there that I had some good role models for me coming up through the grades. It look even started back when I was playing for the dolphins, he, as a kid applying juniors, and then, you know, you're looking up to those senior players and you sort of watch how they train and, and, and the way that applause and solves. And I was just lucky that, you know, I had some, some good blogs to sort of look up to for sure.

0 (24m 23s):
Well, I, when I left the Academy, I got out into, you know, real policing. Like I was, I got told them at first, I forget everything, you know, mate, and go do it, which is perfect. But I had a really good senior Connie who said to me, he said, watch as many as you can work with as many people as you can take what you like from them and leave what you don't. And I've really tried hard in my life to follow that, because it just sounded like a freaking good idea. And it was too, but, but you must have seen both of you going, you must've seen stuff that wasn't good and you chose to, to shy away or move away from it or do whatever you did. As I said, your friggin record, squeaky, clean Patriot. I said, it's always doll. We've got to pop off the bricks and stuff.

0 (25m 4s):
But I mean, you know, there must've been other lads doing stuff that you shouldn't, that shouldn't have been going on, particularly. I mean, was that just ignored? I mean, I'd love to talk to you at Wayne Bennett too, because I will get on a second, but he's, you know, the media tend to not like him because he won't talk to them and you won't tell him anything, which is hilarious, but all these players seem to be just adoring of him and just have the greatest opinion. But I mean, was there circumstances that you deliberately shied away from and said, now, I just, I don't wanna be part of that. It's going to get me in trouble. Yeah,

3 (25m 37s):
Yeah, for sure. I mean, look, it's, it's yeah. One of the challenges as you evolve in, in, in your career and you understand that, you know, there's things that you can, and obviously can't do sometimes, you know, they're having a good time with the lads and you're checking a few cans down and the, the decision making can get swayed a bit. But yeah, I, I think I've always understood that, you know, maybe, maybe two, because I didn't go to the club with, you know, with a huge, you know, background in being a successful, you know, making all the rep sides as a kid and all that kind of stuff. I think because I was a grinder and a grafter, nothing was, was, was I guess, easy. So I guess once I've got there, I think I was just bloody shit, scared a bit, losing the opportunity.

3 (26m 21s):
And if I, if I did something wrong, then that contract gets torn up and then, you know, I'd have to be embarrassment to the family, all that kind of stuff. So I guess that's, what's always been in the back of my mind, you know, around that stuff. So yeah, it made for sure, my, you saw some blokes absolute shockers, you know, and just some of the things that they got up to, and unfortunately at the end of the day, Costin for some blogs got with it. But, you know, I don't know, I'm a believer in karma. Sometimes it comes back to bocce, you know, and it w it was guys back there, the way you treat people, mate. And I think for me, that was always, I was always very mindful of that. And, and yeah, luckily enough, obviously in the good books,

0 (27m 2s):
I think you have mine, what I'll do, I'll just, I'll just want to break for a second fellows. I'll just have a chat to our sponsor for the day. He was able to get back into it. But a sponsor for today is crude, illegal in a ring. If you have an injury, if you get hurt, if you need some help, go see these guys. We have had one of the, what what'd you call on clients, Shane raves, who was on here a while back, told him about being young and disabled shine got so much help from these guys. And we're so grateful for them. It's not a money grab either. It's not someone gone for shine was in a terrible car accident and he's lawful, never be the same again. And when that happens, you need someone on your team to make sure that your receiving the assistance you can, you can so that you can live a normal and happy life and shine crew.

0 (27m 48s):
And he's, he's taking him out there at keep ring, helped him hypes. And I really appreciate the help they give this show as well. Cause it's, obviously we've got to sort of, you know, pay for tasty Timmy. He's he's, he's very good. So he's very worth it. But look at my credit Lego, if you've got any problems and you've been involved next and go see the guys there and that's that she's allowed that cutoff it's, it's brutal. It's I don't wanna name names on these, some of that already, but I'll, you know, I'll look at some of the guys from the outside there and just think they mustn't appreciate it. Yeah. Look, you really appreciated your Korean grind from, from your, from what I've spoken to you, you really did yours as well, but we were guys.

0 (28m 32s):
I was right now just checking up on one guy who we want nine, but he's just a regulation decade. How many he got done for he's been done for drink driving a few times. He's run away from scenes. He's been filmed doing stuff that how many funerals do you want to drink here? I'm white guy. You're at us, but I think you need to do it on camera, particularly in, in, and, and he must be sitting there at one point in time. I'm thinking of just finalists away. I've just made such a disastrous decision. But I guess my point on that is it there's some people you just can't help. And you know, no amount of guidance is obviously helping that kid. But what I want us to come to too, is the fact that if you wrote, I was thinking about this earlier.

0 (29m 13s):
If you keep as a, Panter just as a normal, everyday joy, if you commit a crime or you have done something heinous like hurt somebody, or, you know, there's a lot of domestic violence stuff out there recently and NRO, which they work on. I think that is well-worth getting kicked in the ass from the league and from their team. But most importantly society, cause it's something we need to change in our society. And if we're accepting that from very prominent people, then we're making a big mistake. But if you want to pretend shaggy girlfriend's toy dog, and someone catches it on film, or if you are running around with your pantry and your ankles or something like that. And who cares? Why, why?

0 (29m 53s):
I don't understand why a li sorry, not just leave like sports people would have to be just torn apart by the media for doing that. Because like I said, I'm bloody glad they weren't around when I was 19 2021 in that period of time. I mean, is it, is it a mixed blessing being, being a well, you know, people say that our fame and fortune, is it a mixed blessing being well-known being famous.

3 (30m 19s):
It's, it'd be interesting August. He grime, you know what your thoughts on this? Because obviously the modern day stuff, it's absolutely magnified by media and the scrutiny that on under now. But I mean, look, if you were a, like a big name player back in the day, if there were a bit of a goose in public, I mean, could it be slick, would it be swept under the carpet? Was it something that people would say at he's just been a, been an Erika and just push on, you know, don't worry about it.

2 (30m 48s):
What, what we tend to do is we'd stick together and we'd, we'd worked, you know, like a, if someone was mad, a few too many and starting to act up a bit, we'd just pull him into the lawn, you know? And like most of us and particularly myself, I grew up in an area seven Hills where the seven-year-olds parlor, there was a pretty hard job. And you, you started the act up a bit, there is seeing a tie-dyed up. Yeah. And, and so yeah, you sorta, you live by the rules of what you, what you come up through with, you know, and if you want to be in an embassy in a year, a year, a couple of consequences, and that fall out through like, just pretty much all the guards had applied with <inaudible> and are respectful.

2 (31m 40s):
And, and, but Nan, again, know there's there's as every black is in a team and there's, there's always one or two, like sit down handler drink too. Well, it's up to the other support in the lawn. And that's basically what it happened. Yeah. Yeah.

0 (31m 56s):
Mm. Is that sorry? Is that, is that the experience now? Is that all the players, this is not my problem. If he wants to act like he's in a good what's the comradery like, cause it still as good as it ever was or, Oh, look, I think

3 (32m 7s):
Some clubs it's great. Others, not, not so much, you know, and I, I, I totally understand where ground was coming from because you know, you as a team, you look after your mind, you know, and, and one in all in, and you know, <inaudible> is playing up. If you don't give them a clip over the ear and tell them, pull the hidden or

0 (32m 22s):
That's the base justice. Yeah. I think there's nothing, that'll teach you a lesson. Like you might, it's pulling you to the line and say, Hey,

3 (32m 29s):
That's it. Yeah. From your peers, that's for sure. But then again, you know, it's almost like in this modern day too, where you've got other players that might think, hang on, I don't want to be seen, but this bloke, you and, and they, and they don't do anything. And that's, that's, that's a problem as well. Isn't it? Because again, they're, they're worried about their brain and then it's shitty talking about bloody brand,

0 (32m 49s):
But it's true though, but that's the thing like you, you, you know, if you have the opportunity to stop, you might burn a ghost on a public street and someone takes a video of you with him. Yeah. I mean, should you, do you saw not to be there now? I think executive, like you guys do yay. He helped you might. And you say, Oh man, I said enough, but, but now, I mean, it's just me

3 (33m 8s):
Because, you know, I remember there was a time where I think a few lads were playing up. We were at the pub after motivator mad Monday or something like that. And anyway, Blake got, you know, it was mockery court police, whatever, guilty by association, because there's a Fido of you sitting beside that bloke. Might've been like, you know, three or four hours before it. But all of a sudden you're sort of dragged in with that as well. So,

0 (33m 31s):
And they need, and, well, this is another thing too, that shits me to tease these. You are guilty until proven innocent, if you're a public figure and that's not the way our justice system works. It just seems to me, is that you, if you know, you're accused, you got a cool, you figured out that, well, there's been plenty of, of league players, especially like you said, have had their whole careers ruined by an allegation by these a very well-known lay player at the moment, going through a ripe trial and every day, it's all neat. But in reality, I mean, why is it every day on the news, purely from who he is, that's all it is. And if he gets found not guilty on all of that, that'll always be there. And I just think this is fundamentally flawed.

0 (34m 12s):
Yeah.

3 (34m 12s):
Yeah. And yeah, again, just as a lot about the power of media, you know, and you know, you, you can, you found guilty before you even, you know, you've, you've gone to a court of law and that's, that's really, that's, that's, what's wrong with, with where we're at at the moment, you know, it's across the board in all sports really. I mean, it's just the way the machine that the media is the way it works, unfortunately, you know, and I understand right to what you were saying there before about, you know, if, if a young bloke plays up and then why is he accountable? And we, you know, w with all that kind of stuff, they, they, the, the challenge or the interesting thing around all that is obviously the kids signed a big contract. You know, there's a lot of other stakeholders involved here and all of a sudden, you know, that they, they, they responsible to, you know, and it's, it's, I don't know for me sometimes I just think, you know, these young likes on these big contracts, but you know what, I I'd love it.

3 (35m 2s):
If they in a room they're signing this contract, they're about to sign and say, well, actually, if there's a poster here, see all these people here, this is how you're accountable to right now, as soon as you sign this, these are the people that you represent. I think then it would really sink home to enjoy a young, black and go, okay, now I'll get it. And, you know, not say that, that the tens of thousands of supporters, but then he's at all the companies that are associated with our club. They're the ones that, you know, pay for this and that. And this is why the club is the way it is because of all these allegations, you know, these people as your bosses, that's it. So I think maybe it could be an element of that with it. You know, you just good idea. You just need to give young of reality, check

0 (35m 38s):
A bit, you know, it's great. Yes, you signing a contract, but these are the people that actually have made this happen for you. So it's gone, it's gone to get married, Aurukun, chief, Mrs. Weed run with me. It will be so many cheeks, a spatially think of the wedding day. Ah, and that's the thing you got 30 freaking years after that. Hopefully they're not thinking about that and was thinking, Oh, the winter and maybe the Sonic draft day in NBA or contract on that seat. No, it's not. That's where the hard work starts. That's when you're in the game at that point in time. But it's look, I think that it's a, a poor part on the media to have that blown up all the time.

0 (36m 18s):
And I think, I don't know. It just seems like it's just sensationalism at its base all the time to be had to do that. And, and you get some poor bloke, who's done something then. And in <inaudible> it's never forgotten. It's still talked about commentators. It's shit-faced for it too. Sometimes he's bringing it up out of the blue somewhere. It's like, well, we'll take what to do with today, but it's, you know, today is a fun day, but I've got a question for you, Graham, would you rather apply it in your day or now considering what we're talking about?

2 (36m 46s):
Oh, look at that. It's a two way thing when they all, I was just thinking for this conversation is that I, you know, like today's football is in love. We're talking about, you know, getting things, getting a bit out of hand and all that sort of stuff. What I, my opinion of the modern day football is, is when, when this sort of thing is happening is that instead of someone trying to pull someone into the lawn, they get their, their mobile or their get their camera out and start filming them doing what they should be trying to pull them up. And, and, and yeah, and, and, and I think that that's what creates a lot of things instead of sort of having the people skills and the, the, you know, the people who have got, who can handle a drink in a, and handle a situation and pull someone in the lawn instead of using the nicer things, pulley or a mobile phone, and start filming the lay and start spreading around and, and the social media.

2 (37m 54s):
But I would love to have what the football has got these days, as far as gymnasiums training. Yeah. Amny, Dizay a week. They try not now that much, I guess it's pretty much something every day and the skills training, but let's say only job two is in. Yeah,

0 (38m 15s):
That was what G Beck, what were you doing back in the day when you were applying as well for money?

2 (38m 19s):
When, when I, when I re, when I finished down at ACR land on the Jack Gibson, the first thing you got to get under control is your fitness and get, get fit early. And then the next thing was this, the, like the skills and all that sort of stuff. What sort of, did you

0 (38m 36s):
Have a job outside footy?

2 (38m 37s):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I was doing our first step out when I was blind down, they saw, I was doing a bit of brick is librarian, and that was sort of keep me fairly fit and strong. But then I went to the garbage when I went back to Panama and I was wearing the gavage four in the morning glory and be late in the morning run or not. And I was fit as anything really.

0 (38m 59s):
They did send me, today's flies doing the gavage run at four in the morning. <inaudible>

2 (39m 7s):
That's when you, you're running, picking up bins and all that stuff

0 (39m 12s):
Podcast a few weeks ago with miles callings, a mate of mine, who's a red cliff, local, and he's been doing beans for 25 years, I think, Timmy or something. Aw, man. And he was talking about doing that. So it's got these images of all these league players running around doing, I mean, that's fantastic.

3 (39m 28s):
Well, that, wasn't the main source of work, I guess, was that, and then yeah. Was it your pub runs and blokes had tracks.

2 (39m 34s):
Yeah. There's a few of them are doing that. If you run running kid was doing, he had a very run, but yeah, they're doing all manual work sort of stuff. Library and stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Beta alpha. It was a, it was a big labor for fuel

0 (39m 53s):
Slung, a Phoebe's too. And he's told Pedro, have you ever done it? Have you ever worked, but when, before you debuted yeah. Had you worked much or had you been in the real world as such,

3 (40m 6s):
I guess again I'll thank my lucky stars are in that, that, that mid nineties was when, you know, the game was, was, was gone professional. And so, yeah, I was, you know, doing a bit of library stuff, been a bit of study working at the bottle, I down at the ambass then, then, then the vine establishment. Then the Bronx had me doing a, I was in a youth justice youth detention center actually at Windsor. I was working in there. And that was it. Basically once I signed that contract in 98 to start playing first grade, that was my full-time job was playing 40. So yeah, again, I'm, I'm, I'm grateful, lucky that, you know, I applied, I came into an era where, where I could concentrate on footy and, and that was pretty much it for me, all right through to the end of my career was just displaying football.

0 (40m 54s):
So all right. Back to main role model. Okay. Now obviously I'm fully aware that you are for a lot of people Petro, and I think that's a wonderful thing. And, and you kind of choose to do that too. Like it's, it's something that I think that, you know, you're very suited to. So Brian, did you, when you came into the game, was it, were you expected to, you know, behave in any certain way or to, you know, you in coaching and all this stuff there, but you, as you've said before on this, that it was sort of on the field stuff, as much as anything you didn't get involved in, in life outside, but what do you do now? Like you've had a few changes in life that were discussed in, in time and, you know, yeah.

2 (41m 34s):
Well, towards the end of my career, I was pretty good after the kangaroo too. It was in 78 or 79. Our started, I started doing a bit of search and I thought of my editor top and where I go from here. And, and by that time, I think I was 31.

0 (41m 52s):
Were you worried at all? Were you worried at all when, when football was over, what were you, what was the feeling for you? Were you excited or were you,

2 (41m 59s):
No, I'm not at that stage. I started doing a bit of searching and, and in 79 in a second door to come along, Becky was born and I actually always, there's a commitment with then the Royal Easter show with this son, you use private, if you fewer spam box and some manly bikes, I think. And I got back and she, and I was just got to the door, the birthing theater there, and, and next month they will own Becky out. And

0 (42m 31s):
I wish I'd been there to stay outside feeling not a good day and went back and back in <inaudible> the miracle of birth is not a pretty solid as far as I'm concerned. But anyway,

2 (42m 48s):
Anyway. Yeah. But yeah, and I know, I thought I was so Becky and out of this, what do I do from now on? And really, I I'd been certain where I've been training the guys there, they got, or someone told them about the Olympian lifting guy. He is a Christian and the gym and, and, and I've done many that, that year, halfway through that year. And I was over there torn. I'm trying to get back into, into the game again. And, and, and he was witnessing, witnessing during the favorite. And, and I made a commitment later on that year. And so the, the change session for me to go out of them, football was fairly easy.

2 (43m 29s):
I knew I had to get out of Sydney big to get away from bad habits in bed, you know, like dad, aunts and things like that. And so I took a captain guy's job, landed in the Riverina tomorrow.

0 (43m 42s):
Yeah. Difficult being a Christian. Yeah. I wanted to do bad, but I was a Christian. One of the first, some of them don't care, you know, that we're all on. Anyway,

2 (43m 54s):
Mr. Is not this way. And when the, when the major the team, he said, crime, you got to get here and, and start swearing it after on it, them <inaudible>. I said, what is it?

0 (44m 8s):
And the F word or whatever, actually saying that, the semis, the ambiguous word. Yeah. <inaudible> what am I exactly telling them now? But that's where

2 (44m 20s):
I think it's the most multi

0 (44m 22s):
Phased words. They mean which language you can throw it in any way. You like, really, it doesn't really matter. But yeah, but I mean, no, it's interesting for you because that's like, I'd love to hear your story to pitcher because just, okay. I haven't got sport, but I had the cops and the cops is you are in a club and it is useful. They're wanting all in all the time and you really do. It's a real, I've described it before is it's like a gang, like, you know, you're in or you're out. Yeah. And after 10 years I was suddenly out and I was lost. I didn't know what to do. And I was frightened and I didn't know how I was gonna feed my fame. And, and one of the big things in the copes is siphon. You get these Blakes that say, you never make it on the outside. Like I wasn't in prison at the time, but it's, it was it weed thing, but you say you were coming up to your age.

0 (45m 5s):
What, what is, do you retire?

3 (45m 6s):
Yeah, I think it was about what 35, 36 years I'd played late in the Meyer in my career. So you usually, I mean, like retire in that, you know, early thirties marks. So I wasn't an old fellow in, in terms of, in terms of the game, but in, in sign that, you know, I knew that knew my time was off. I was lucky that I got to get out of the game and, you know, it was my call. You know, it wasn't like a contract that I didn't get. It wasn't an injury that ended my career. I got to a point where that was it. I just said, you know, I've had enough. I've, I've, I've got everything out of the game, but yeah, look, it's a real reality check for a lot of young bloke for a lot of blacks. Because again, you know, like myself, if all you've ever done from high school and you've been grown by a football club to, to, to, to progress from school straight into the professional ranks of, of whatever sport it is, again, unless you have that, that reality perspective of, of, of understanding, you know, what is going on in the outside world, outside of the bubble, that is your sport, blacks get lost.

3 (46m 9s):
And, you know, and I remember when I, when I retired, I, I did a bit of work. There plays association, and a lot of players had my number. So as guys were retiring, it was, I was blown away by the amount of phone calls and I'd be taking about blokes. I've just begun. My I'm stuck. I don't know what I'm doing in Iowa. I haven't, you know, I haven't got any community links to, to, to, to, to jobs or anything else because I don't have any connections there that that can, can help me, I'm struggling, you know? And then of course with that, you know, is that the mental health aspect of it all and, and, you know, all of a sudden, you just find guys, just get into that, right. Where that just feel like, you know, that the world, that their news is no longer there. And so, yeah, again, this is where the game has evolved.

3 (46m 52s):
I spoke to you before about the education and the community aspect of, of, of clubs, which is great, but yeah, there's a lot of welfare around, you know, plays, you know, mental health and all those sorts of things to ensure that, you know, they've got the right support systems. Once they do leave the football ranks. One of the great things I experienced, you know, when I was announcing that I was going to finish up the NRL, got in touch with me straight away and just sort of wanted to sit down with me, understand what my plan was moving forward. So I found that was really helpful. But then I do feel for those bikes before my era, where they didn't have that kind of support, you know, and they didn't have people to talk to. So that's something that I think, you know, as I said, the game has gotten a lot better at and, you know, hopefully continue to improve.

0 (47m 36s):
Yeah. It seems you sort of, yeah. All thanks very much. You've been great. And the doors closed and, you know, and, and a lot of our guests, okay. He's a very good, a little bit out, but when a lot of guys would think they were going to get rot, I'll go into commentating, I'll go into coaching, I'll go into sideline, coming up, whatever these things are. And there's only so many spots, right. It's not sort of going to happen for everyone. And yeah. And if you've had no or very little community interaction and you don't actually know how to be anything, but a footy player. Yeah. Jesus, it must be a tough day.

3 (48m 9s):
Oh, it is. It is. But again, you say you see that across many sports. I mean, some sports are very good at it. And as I said, the league has done a fantastic job at it has gotten a lot better, but yeah. I mean, when you see someone that you think, you know, you see them on the football field, you think by their Bulletproof might look at them now they are tough. And, and then all of a sudden that the, the, you know, the rug gets pulled from, from beneath them. Yeah. They, might've got injured, a serious injury that now means their crews finished all photos. Isn't, didn't get, get a contract or, you know, the clubs don't want them all of a sudden legs. It's helpless. You know? So

0 (48m 46s):
I think part of that can be too, like if your personality is entirely wrapped around what you do, and I'm not just talking sport, there's plenty of things that do it. But, you know, say for instance, sport, like if your prime, your personalities first, I'm a footballer. And secondly, on Patriot. And I certainly don't see that in you. I sort of feel like you're always Patriot first and you play footy and that's cool, but some people don't like you get people that don't have any sense of themselves outside of the game or the Curry. Like, I find it really interesting when people say, Oh, what do you do now for me, I do plenty of stuff, all these little different bits and pieces to try and make the place a better place or whatever it might be.

0 (49m 27s):
But it's really weird for, Oh, I'm an accountant or I'm Omni. So I'm like, Oh, I'm not on a may bastard. Husband, stepdad might tell heaps people. And they do all these other bits and pieces, but some people really identify with that. And when that is gone and it's finished Maine, it's, you know, where you go from an area is entirely up to you, but I think it's a cool thing that the league called you and spoke to you about it. Cause that's looking after your own.

3 (49m 53s):
Yeah. That's it, that's it. And I think the other they've had a lot of learnings around it because, you know, they've probably heard enough about the bad experiences that split players have had. And you know, there is an element of duty of care for the players. As you said, they've got a lot out of these, these, these young fellows I've put, you know, pulled them out of school and I put them up on the, on the pedastool and they're applying prompt on right. Billy and or whatever the sport is. And all of a sudden, you know, once that finishes it, won't what, what are, what are you doing? You know, what, what can we do to sort of help them take that next step? And, and yeah. Which is a good thing, but Hey Graham,

2 (50m 28s):
Did you have anything to do with your clubs after you left particularly? Or was it just thanks very much or now? Well, the thing is that I got that here injury and, and so that put me out for the rest of them 79 and I, I come back and, and like, it was, wasn't it sort of gown too. Well, for me, it was, it was a cartilage thing in those days, they used to take the cartilage right out and, and sort of do a lot of damage doing that. I also didn't written, or they didn't realize as I had immediate ligament problems at the same time. So that, that the whole thing was weakened and yeah, and I, I just, I, I, I got back up to getting back in first grade again, probably probably play my best game.

2 (51m 20s):
And I probably would have been in, in for first grade again, early in the season, but my done Naval Glover, I don't know whether you remember navel he'd come across where we were doing Mondays drills, Vale. Yeah. I had to run to one bike and running or another, another England run to dive on a ball out of the trial and, and he's, he's hit me and just drive me in and, and just blame it on the Amelia ligament completely. Yeah. That's it. And that was all over red Rover, but yeah. And that's, and then they asked Jack Jack Gibson was going take over, as Kate said, the following year and another wall.

2 (52m 3s):
That's it for me really, because I I'm trying to on a Jack and replied under Jack and I'm in 74 and there's a lot of ride runs and all that sort of stuff, but apparently changed a bit. And Bobby Raleigh was around any and rubbery and ankle as bad as my knee, then he was able to get through. But anyway, our, there was a few of country clubs I'm interested in Griffith one for one and, and tomorrow was another, and there's a couple of others all, as I said before, I thought I fell. I had to get out of Sydney. If I wanted to make this, my commitment to me and Christian worth.

2 (52m 44s):
And, you know, I never looked back from that day onwards. I went down there. It was great for the, for the family, the kids, we had three kids all under a four. And ah, and I ended up buying a little 15 acre farm on the edge of town. And, and then we stayed at all and 78, sorry, on 84. And then we saw that the fitness interrupt for South when we were up on a gold coast with the wasp parents and come up and look at it and go, Oh, okay. We want to get someone who will come here. My other job here, it was sanded

0 (53m 26s):
Too good to be true. And it turned out to be too good to be true. And I got sacked after three months of fighting with the, with the owner, it was a management job that they didn't want me to manage them, but I'll tell you what brother got me to Redcliffe and I'll do it again, all that misery to get to this beautiful place that we live in that I love so much. So just Petro you, you, you do a lot of mentoring now and bits and pieces in that. What is your, what is your thing you're doing now primarily or

3 (53m 55s):
So with a deadly choices? So it's indigenous health program. I've been an ambassador for just going on two years now. And before that I worked for NRL community. So again, you know, promoting the game through communities all around Australia. So I was on the move a fair bit. So I pretty much did that straight out of 40. So I was really lucky. And you know, one of the things I loved the bit, the game is, is the community aspect of it love getting out to schools or communities wherever we went. And, and footie was just a great, great thing for me in that, you know, you could, you could meet so many good people. And for me, as I said, it was really lucky that I've got, it's fill in that role. And then it's sorta, like, the thing for me now is a lot of these community roles that have been a part of.

3 (54m 38s):
And so I'm really passionate about that. The mentoring sort of things. Yeah. I mean, you know, I see a lot of young blokes in, in, in, in not just even in sport, even rugby league, but I love the opportunity to, to, to have a chat to the young fellows about, you know, what they're doing in their lives. And obviously, you know, the challenges of that, that are, that are happening, but you know, trying to find a way forward and that's something I really enjoy. Like I get a lot out of that. You know, it wasn't so much about the media for me after, after the, I know there were a lot of boys, as you said before, you know, aspiring to be sideline commentators, obviously I've got a good head for, for radio. And that's a bad idea.

0 (55m 14s):
My brother, we don't feel many, anything like that, but yeah,

3 (55m 19s):
The community stuff for me, I've got a lot of enjoyment out of that. And yeah, a lot of my stuff here in not just here in, in Queensland, further afield across into other Southern States, we did the choices, but yeah, a lot of my stuff now doing, doing work in Fiji as well. So yeah, that's the way it's sort of fallen in line for me and I'm really enjoying it.

0 (55m 40s):
Now you keep saying, you're lucky. I mean, it's, it's interesting. The people get lucky. It's the ones that are having to crack my thumb as far as I can say. So. Yeah. Yeah. So look right boys. Anything else you'd like to add before we wrap it up or you happy grime sign? Oh, go, this isn't gonna last three hours, 56 minutes. Even Grimes brother, not boys. Thank you very much for the chat. I might not. I'll still look, I guess, for me, out of all this, you can choose to be a role model or not. And there's some people that aren't going to be. And I think that the community could look at people that are in sports and consider the fact that maybe they're not. Yeah. And Alica was going to start discounting some Craig Bellamy, he's the call and get it two days ago.

0 (56m 26s):
And they walk past me in the street and I thought, do you say hi or Hey Craig, but on and on, like, that must be a weird thing for people to feel like they know you and sort of that that's, they've got the right to say something to you like, Oh God, sorry, I'm taking a detour here at moment. But like we're Bunnings once Darren Lockie was there to say something and my kids wanted to go. So I went there and his copper from the PC. So he introduced him into it and then spent a good minute and a half ripping him about and how she had asked. He played in the last auction. And I thought, well, the ownership that this guy feels like he's got over this, these footie players come here to do the right thing. Must be absolutely onerous on Darren.

0 (57m 6s):
He must've said it. Thanks. Bye. I'm actually just here to give out some balloons and feel good, but that's fine. But I mean, look, it's, it's a tough thing, I guess, for the people out there listening, don't, you know, I mean, they're, they're playing sport, they're doing their best. They're going to screw up sometimes. Sometimes they're not, but they're people and I guess that's the end of the day. And you know, we're all entitled to them. I an arrow to that's it. No, one's watching me with the camera.

3 (57m 27s):
I look in the talking about role models. I mean, Jesus migrates role models don't even have anything to do sport, you know? And I think that's, that's the thing. I think it's really important. You know, if we're educating our kids, you know, to, to, it's not about the sports field, let's be other people right in front of us that they're there. They're the people that inspire that, that, you know, that show you the way to, to lead your life are now, you know, you're always gonna get people that make mistakes for sure. But, you know, it's just about, you know, picking the good things out of, out of those role models and trying to emulate that, I guess

0 (57m 59s):
As many as you can and pick out the stuff you like exactly, that's the thing is as long as you learn from your mistakes, that's the thing you learn from where they live, achieve something. That's like a great suppose. I've got no regrets cross, they've got hundreds of them. And I like it. I'm glad I've gotten them because if I didn't have them and I didn't look back and regret something, will you do it again when you don't want to do it again? Because it there's dumb. So now look, thanks. Hey, I hate slides. I really appreciate you coming on. No humble opinions. Thanks for the chat. Thanks for trusting me with the chat, which is good. Big, thanks to Timmy from Awan, lovely work as usual brother, and also thanks to crew legal for sponsors today. We'll catch up with you next week for something very different, probably on nine humble opinions. Thanks.

1 (58m 39s):
<inaudible>.