Ep: 37 FUUK Cancer.

Cancer is a leading cause of death in Australia – almost 50,000 deaths from cancer were estimated for 2019...... and it is scary.
How scary? Ryno and Kat Houghton discuss their own personal stories relating to the effects of this awful disease.

#cancer #knowyourknockers #fuckcancer #fuukcancer #nohumbleopinions #straighttalk #rynosway #unpopularopinion  #unpopularopinions #podcast #podcastlife #podcastrecommendations #podcastseries #politicallyincorrect #politicalcorrectness

Transcript

0 (1s):
Hi there. Ryno here from the podcast. No humble opinions. We talk to interesting people about interesting things today. My guest is Kat Houghton from now your knockers, and we're going to be talking about cancer.

1 (12s):
<inaudible> how are you?

0 (30s):
I'm well, thank you very much for asking. Do step on coffee. I think I've had four this morning. It's probably a bit much. Anyway. There you go. Sorry. All right. Now you and I have been mates for a wall. Yep. And we had putting it through a couple of shitty experiences, Connor together, and obviously on your own, which you always are and the end of the day, no matter what happens, but Mike, tell us, tell us why you're here. Tell me your story. Okay.

2 (54s):
So in 2018, I was diagnosed with stage two, sort of maybe stage three. There's a few things that hang in the wind there, breast cancer. So I attended an appointment at the Wesley and thought I had sort of a, I guess, you know, an abscess or something like that in my boob. And by the end of the day, it turned out I had breast cancer and it quite possibly had spread to the lymph nodes, which we found out that yes, it had. Then we went through the process of the pet scans and all the rest. And all of that sort of thing

0 (1m 35s):
Happens that fast. It is fast.

2 (1m 37s):
It just, it's almost, I sort of say to people, those words, when she come back in and said, you've got breast cancer will never ever leave my body. You know, it just never, there's just something about it that I think for me in my life, getting cancer was probably one of my biggest fears because I know nothing about it. And when you're an intelligent person and you know nothing about something, it scares the shit out of you. So, you know, cancer was very much a taboo topic and cancer to me meant death.

2 (2m 18s):
So when I heard those words, I immediately thought I'm, I'm in the process of dying.

0 (2m 24s):
Yep. It's my story. As you know, already in 2017, my son, Jake complained a lot about a sore neck. I went so far as to one of those say, mate, you got to go to school. It's not like you got cancer or anything. You just got a sore neck. Anyway, we laughed about that. Lighter sits around. Well, he, we took him to specialists and what have you. And they just didn't know what was going on. Finally took him to a car, a car. I said, there's a drama. He got to get an x-ray. We got an x-ray lesion in one of his neck, vertebrae. I said, right, go straight to the which hospital. And like you say, three hours later, your son has bone cancer.

0 (3m 4s):
And I mean, we didn't win Jack Dodd and you know that very well. You were there for the whole journey with me helping me a lot. And then you had yours, but it's just that fast. And you never think it's going to be, you know, it's just never going to be you. And to have that happen. I mean, I I've heard a lot of it. I want to talk a lot about your experiences and the people you went through it with. Cause you lost some, some people in your, you know, in your little group of, of people with that. But we, and we didn't have that sort of association with anyone else. Jake's Jake's was called a core dimer and they are so rare. They're not even entirely sure they're a cancer, like, because they don't react to any sort of form of treatment.

0 (3m 47s):
So it's a very difficult thing on that, but, and there's no funding for it because it's so rare. It's one in a million for blokes my age at 40 mid forties, it's unheard of for a 17 year old and two to have that. No one knowing what was going on was just unbelievable. And you know, fortunately there is, there is a lot of research in breast cancer, but there's so many different types of breast cancer as well. And that's, you would have learned a lot about it and it's a bit of a steep learning curve.

2 (4m 17s):
You suddenly, you know, thrown into this world of acronyms and definitions and things that are so complex and really we've only just scratched the surface of yeah. You know, and as you say, you know, breast cancer is one of the more heavily funded, you know, well, it's so common, but, but it allows kind of, I guess in a way though, it, even though it's funded so heavily and yes, it's out there, there's so much about it. That's still so unknown. And particularly when we start talking about this growth in the amount of young women getting breast cancer, now that scares the shit out of me because when you walk around the chemo ward and I genuinely thought, am I the youngest person to ever contract this disease?

2 (5m 12s):
And I was just so I wasn't even close this 23 year olds getting breast cancer. Now at 23, I was not thinking about my boots. I was thinking about having fun and gone to the beach and partying and playing hockey and meeting up with my friends. There was not for one minute the thought of breast cancer on my mind. And now the, in a lot of the, I guess the, the marketing and the material that comes out is directed towards older women. So these young women that are getting it on and, you know, on breast cancer forums talking about how the hell did I get this?

0 (5m 47s):
It's it's crazy. And, and not to say, they don't know what what's happening. We don't know what's causing it. And it continues on, but look, you've done some wonderful stuff which we'll get onto later on in this, you've used these as a way as best I can to, to do good stuff. But can you take us through your, your journey, right? You got, you were diagnosed, like you say, cut layers later, you've got breast cancer. What happens in,

2 (6m 14s):
I'll take you back three years. So I've actually got a, a negligence case on the, in the process at the moment, I actually went to a doctor in 2015 at 34 about a lump in my breast. So I had a physical lump and I was basically dismissed at that time. As you know, I almost felt like I was being annoying or I was overreacting or, you know, being a hypochondriac or that sort of thing. Anyway, 2018, that lumps grown and it's sore. And I go to that doctor on not that particular doctor, but I went to the Wesley who I advise anyone who has any kind of breast concerns go to the Wesley, go to the professionals, go to the people that look at boobs all day, every day.

2 (7m 4s):
They're the ones that you want to talk to. So it went to the Wesley, find out I've got breast cancer. What happens then I think is probably the worst period of the diagnosis in that's that first week of really finding out what is the very clear diagnosis at the end of it. There's yes, you've got breast cancer. Then there's a whole raft of things you need to find out. Has it spread to other organs in your body? So you need a pet or a CT scan or bone scan or whatever. Why, why your doctor, your oncologist decides to what path they decide to go down. So I had a pet and a CT scan.

2 (7m 44s):
Those both came back as yes, it is in my lymph nodes. There was one lymph node that had shown up as having cancer in it and right throughout my right breast, then I had to talk to the surgeon about what way we were going to tackle this

0 (8m 2s):
On a break you off, but I'm going to write how, when you found out it spread, that's going to knock your socks off. Doesn't it a bit, you just go, shit. This is even worse. I mean, that's, you know,

2 (8m 13s):
Yes. The, the, the good thing, if you are in stages, one, two or three is it's, it's what they call, they call it curable, or they say, this is very treatable. We can, we can basically kill the cancer at that point. Once you get beyond that stage for you, you just treatable. So, and you might, you may be treated for 25 years, 30 years. You might live, you know, a very healthy, long, long life, but it's coming. And I knew that. I knew that if it had spread to anywhere outside of that lymphatic area, that I knew that I was in big trouble.

2 (8m 59s):
So, yeah, so that was very, very testing for me. I found that very difficult during that period, waiting to find out whether or not my cancer had spread to my liver or my bones or my brain or whatever it was because I knew then I was on a limited timeframe, which is, which is a whole nother set of very difficult circumstances to a whole lot of shit fight going on there. But I had found out it had spread to my lymph and that it was throughout my right breast. So I definitely at that point needed chemotherapy, which really knocked me for six because I had heard very, very, very bad things about chemotherapy. I'd seen people go through it, you lose your hair.

2 (9m 40s):
There were, there's a whole raft of emotions that I suddenly had to understand that I was going to have to go through these processes to,

0 (9m 48s):
Well, let me, let me just stop you and go on and get a bit of background. And some people as well, you are a healthy fit woman. You played for Australia in hockey. So elite sports woman, and you never, I mean, and all of a sudden you're looking at death down the barrel.

2 (10m 4s):
I don't smoke or drink a bit, but I, I'm not an alcoholic. I'm not an excessive drinker. I eat healthy. I'm a, I'm a good weight.

0 (10m 15s):
So you're none of the reasons people that you know, can get tick

2 (10m 19s):
Ugly. So it's, so for me, I was like, what are you talking about? I actually thought they were taking the piece. I honestly thought someone is having a laugh. They're testing me. You know, I, I really did think that. And then once you start going through those processes and you realize your one of, a lot of women, lot of young women now being faced with this dilemma. When I went through the process, we decided we would, we would do what they call neoadjuvant therapy chemotherapy, which means I did chemotherapy prior to my surgery. So I started my chemo therapy because they wanted to see how my particular cancer was going to react to the drugs.

2 (10m 60s):
And it reacted really well. I was very lucky. It started to shrink. My lumps started to shrink. They got to the point where before surgery, those lumps were pretty much dissolved. So I couldn't feel those physical lumps in my breasts. Some of them, they couldn't find on the ultrasound, which is almost a miracle. So I know there's people out there that go down the natural path. I have gone down the, you know, smash it path

0 (11m 24s):
And it worked, but you lost your boobs too.

2 (11m 27s):
I lost my boobs. So then after that, I decided to have a double mastectomy. So I only needed to remove the right one, but I decided I wanted to have both of them removed for symmetry. You know, there was just this, I think, going through chemotherapy first, too, I was like this, I am never doing this again. Take them all off. They got to go because if it comes back in my other one and I haven't taken that opportunity to rid of it, I, the, this could break me, you know? So I wanted every risk removed. So I removed both of both of the breasts. Then I did radiation from my chest wall right across to under my armpit where the lymph nodes were infected.

2 (12m 11s):
I was very lucky after my surgery, when they chop up all the bits and they go through it all under the microscope, all of the cancer was dead. So that's what you call a 100% pathological response, which is the best response you can get. Yep.

0 (12m 27s):
Now, okay. You were fucking sick though. Oh yeah. I remember seeing photos of you. I mean, you're not a real weighty person as it is, and you looked a lot cleaner than you would. You lost all your hair. You, it was not a good time. Cause sometimes people, it's interesting. You sit down and you go through and you know, they survive cancer. And so fuck. It's just barely sometimes though, like, I mean, how bad was the treatment for you?

2 (12m 55s):
Yeah. It, chemo for me is something that, or I honestly, I think I've almost wrapped it up 50 times and tucked it away into my body. Never to be opened that emotion again. It took me to places where I was suicidal. It really messed with my mind. So sometimes chemotherapy really reacts with you physically. For me, it was, it really reacted with me mentally. I think that was because I was extremely dizzy. I was really out of control. I couldn't, I could not.

2 (13m 38s):
Yeah. It's, it's a really surreal feeling. And, and you know, those of you that are just about to go through chemotherapy or have gone through it before it, you will know every experience is completely different. You know, some people, you know, it hits them really hard. Others go through very limited.

0 (13m 55s):
Okay. Well, Kevin, it's basically trying to kill the cancer before it kills you before the chemo kills you. Like I said, it's a competition to see how far you can push it.

2 (14m 4s):
It almost pushes you right to that edge to say, we can give you this, your body is going to tolerate this much. I mean, the fact that the day after you have chemotherapy, you have to have an injection in your stomach to release bone marrow, straight away tells you that they are just sucking everything out of every part, every good part out of everything to kill this thing. And yeah, and it's really, it's really, really tough. It's, it's a tough gig. I, I really, I really hope that I never have to go through that experience again. And I hope that no one close to me has to go through those experiences. I've got a couple of people who I know have gone through, have been going through chemotherapy or just gone through it.

2 (14m 49s):
And I've almost had to block block conversations with them because I can't, I don't have the, at the moment I can't process it because I it's just so bad. You know, for me, it gives me a real mental, it scares me. Totally. Yeah.

0 (15m 8s):
Well, I mean, I had a funny thing the other day, this lady talking to me on Newark, I didn't realize she'd lost her husband two years ago to cancer. And she started really deeply talking to me about her grief and how it's still killing us. Oh, fuck. It messed me up. Like I just stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, please. Because I've got that little closet where I put all those feelings too, and it sort of good open bit. So I get ya. I still get those fricking tunnels going towards the PA hospital. I'll just freak out. I still get. Cause I just feel like I'm going to take Jake to another shitty session.

2 (15m 42s):
You know what it is, mate? It's everything that you do with, with cancer is you're waiting for bad news. And I think I have this fear now of when I go to the doctors, even if I'm going for a checkup, are they just going to tell me something that it's almost like being pulled over by the cops, you know, and you get pulled over by the cops. You're like, Oh fuck. I'm guilty. I don't even know what I've done, but it's that? Yeah, it is for me.

0 (16m 11s):
Well, we had, I mean, we got told in the first week of a 14 month fight that he was going to die and they said it could be five years. Like I said, we got 14 months, but when you finish that and it just fucked me so bad and cause what, what do you do?

2 (16m 28s):
What do you do? How do you, how do you make that? Right? How do you create sense out of that? It's the same thing for me. I just found out one of the girls the other day is now I don't like to call it terminal, but she's now stage four. Now she could be stage four for 25 years. That's the beauty of, of the, the type that she has. She, you know, I said to you, you're quite capable of being, you know, you're just as likely to be hit by bus as you are of living with this thing. But it really, it just got in my gut after I spoke to her, like, I just couldn't stop thinking about it all day. Cause I'm just thinking it's a, it's a timeline.

2 (17m 9s):
It's a, it's an ending. It's like, there's the end of the story in front of you, try and fill the pages. And it's like, how do you do that?

0 (17m 17s):
It's like, when, when we were talking about that, I remember some people in, particularly my foster mom, she said, Oh Ron, you know, we're all dying. Don't you, that's just fucked. Yeah. Cause you don't think about it every fucking day. And when you have a phrase, I used to describe jokes as a freight train coming towards me with a light on, in a tunnel. I didn't know when it was going to hit. I just knew I was going to get here and then it's unstoppable and any discharged in that path and it just fricking ruined me and it, and it still does. I mean, Hey, I mean, I'm a happy little champion. I do my stuff and whatever, but there's always those days that are, that are sheet. And it's just the, the incoming, I mean always relieved when Jack died and I've, I've talked to you about that.

0 (17m 60s):
And, and it sounds horrible to say that, but we got told that he would be unable to speak, unable to eat. And I just, you know, in a chair staring at us waiting to die and I couldn't deal with that. Like I just had some, I got and he had a wonderful day. And when we get told that that was it, no more surgery we're done. It's wait and see. And two days later he had a wonderful day with his brother and his family, including me. And he went to sleep and he died in his sleep. And the truth is I think the morphine took him and I'm okay with that. I'm absolutely okay with that because it went peacefully. But

3 (18m 35s):
I mean your yours twice. I mean, you,

0 (18m 41s):
I want to talk about those people that you've met too, but I guess I don't want to screw you up by the cat. Sorry, but like it's, I guess it's over for my now is it over for you? No, this is

2 (18m 55s):
Cancer is, is a forever journey. Once you've had it, it found my body, it could find it again. And the fear of recurrence is, can be debilitating, you know?

0 (19m 12s):
Cause that's what I thought. Like if I try to think if it was me, what would I be in? I just try and live every day. Like it's my last anyway, to be honest, because Jake taught me that it could be, so if I can do it and but yeah, I don't know. I haven't got it.

2 (19m 27s):
Yeah. It's, it's, it's a forever thing. And I've, I wouldn't say I've accepted that, but on trying to, and I'm, I really try hard to manage those feelings. Look, my gut feeling is that this won't come back to me. I feel like the research and what is available for my type of breast cancer is very effective. And has there is evidence there to suggest that this will probably be one of the first cancers that becomes curable is the, is the one that I've had,

3 (20m 7s):
But

2 (20m 9s):
The, the risk of it coming back is high, you know, and it's, it's scary. And it, it scares me when I look at my kids and I think to myself, I'm not sure how long I've got here and how much memory of me will they have. Does that make sense? And I guess, but on the same as you Ryan, I sit and I go that this is my path, you know, and I have to figure out with the help of other people, whether it's psychologists or friends or whatever, it might, whatever, you know, your oncologist, she breast cancer nurse, all of those people, I have to be proactive in this space.

2 (20m 59s):
I can't let this rule who I am or what I choose to do in the future because I could sit down and like my Feek cancer work there's some days I think to myself, what the fuck am I doing? Like, this is hard work. I'm dealing with lazy manufacturers. I'm trying to find, you know, suppliers of material. I've got, you know, things that are really like much more difficult than I expected. And I think, what the fuck am I doing? And then I go and then, and I think in my head, I go, I could be dead in five years and here I am wasting my time. And then a psychologist said to me on the phone one day, but Kat, what if you didn't do it?

2 (21m 41s):
What if you didn't do it? And you lived for 10 years, what if you didn't do it and you live for 20? And I go, that's, that's the poker machine I'm on. You know,

0 (21m 50s):
And yeah, I, I, he, I mean, charred for me is about that. And a child for me is about repaying, I guess, or the help and love and assistance I had. And what I'm trying, I try and do with that is give people that love and help and assistance that, that I got from my friends. Cause if you haven't got anyone you screwed, but it's fucking hard though. Like sometimes let us look at them at Walmart, doing nice meeting in a tribe, but it's just, but it's worth it. I guess

2 (22m 19s):
I've got a printing bill to pay next week and I'm for know your knockers for 8,000 pocket guides and I've raised X amount of money, but I'm just not quite there. And I'm thinking, Oh my God, I've got to take this out. You know, but I sit and I go, this is what I have to do. This is my calling. And I know this is my opportunity, the same as you to be able to say thank you. And to create, you know, I guess some avenues of support for women who aren't like me, who don't have the strength who can't stand up and go, I'm going to, you know, find the information I'm going to, you know, you know, do this medical negligence claim or I'm going to do this, or I'm going to go down this path who don't, who not, are not the people that stand up, you know, because we're all made of different things and I can do it.

2 (23m 12s):
I can do it. I can write, I can publish. I can find people. I can get sponsorship. Those are all my things that gifts that I was born with. So, you know, this is my opportunity to give back, but it there's days where I just go, what am I doing? But you know,

0 (23m 29s):
But look and I'll do I want to talk about all the cool shit you're doing shortly, but let me take you back again. Sorry to the bad place, but all right. So you're in the ward with now, how long were you in the ward for like, cause I'm what I'm going to get to is I want to your experience with a group women. I remember that you lost people in that group and that's gotta be fucking a bit, a bit battle to luck, isn't it? But just losing your comrades sort of a thing that's always just,

2 (23m 56s):
And, and the, this one is the, this, this really made me go when we lost Diane was her name and she was a very positive girl. And when I hear people go, Oh yeah, but Kat, you beat it because you're positive and you're strong. Night's bullshit,

0 (24m 12s):
Bullshit. Isn't it? Because he fucking luck.

2 (24m 16s):
I saw people in there that were fighting. They were fighting hard. It has nothing to do. Sometimes I agree that being positive and, and having strength and all of those things definitely helps definitely helps. But in terms of, of, you know, life and death, there are just, there are just some cancers mate that are common, they're coming fast. And unfortunately there is pack all you can do about it. Yeah. Well, Diane was on our group. Very strong person really was very positive. Always said, no cat. I think I've got the best oncologist I can have. You know, and we, we were all, wow, this is great.

2 (24m 57s):
And then it just started to turn to shit. And I remember the day that she, we found out she was dying and there was not, she, she had w it wasn't. Yeah, she didn't have long to go actively dying. And I watched her go from a very positive person to very withdrawn. She didn't talk much to any of us anymore. I'm not sure whether that was for her sake or for our sake. You know, I think she was an intelligent enough woman to know that. And I think she was preserving as much energy as she could to give as much fight as she possibly could.

2 (25m 39s):
If there was anything left to give. The last time she spoke to me was actually when my kids came in and she said to me, your children are beautiful. You know, because they were very good in the chemo ward. They were always, it was. And, and I thought to myself, what I thought, God see him at home. But anyway, and I remember that day, and then I remember sitting down and, and, you know, in with the chemo ward, you go in and it's sort of a day long process and you sort of get blood taken and then you go and see your oncologist, and then you come back and they put the chemo drugs in, and it takes a couple of hours or whatever, and you're hooked up to a machine and this sort of thing.

2 (26m 19s):
And I remember that day sitting in the cafeteria and, and sort of having a bit of a tear and just thinking to myself how lonely this journey is, because I'm talking to my husband, who's very much in the battle, in the fight with me, but really has no concept of what the fear is of what this looks like from my point of view, you know? And he's, well, you just got to keep going, mate, we can do it. We gotta, we gotta keep going. I know this is terrible, but we go and I'm thinking, it's just, you know, it really takes you back to that. I was born as an individual and I'm going,

0 (26m 59s):
Yeah, that's the thing that you're born alone. You die alone.

2 (27m 2s):
Yeah. And it's, it really made me think of that of almost like that out of body experience, like I'm watching my own life and I'm watching other people having to face that battle and that battle she's facing don't get me wrong. Her husband was there every step of the way, but she is very much alone in this, in her thoughts when she goes to bed at night, all of those things. And then she ended up passing away. And I remember being very angry and walking into my oncologist and basically saying, why the fuck did she die? And I'm not, why am I living? And I'm almost thriving through this experience.

2 (27m 43s):
I'm sort of, this chemo is killing it. It's doing its thing and everything. And she said, you need to sit down. And she explained to me, basically the ins and outs of breast cancer. And I was honestly gobsmacked. She had a type of breast cancer called triple negative, which is a very brutal breast cancer. Only 5% of women get that particular type that it is on the rise, which scares me. And basically it's a, you either respond very well to chemo. This is my, my understanding. You either respond very well or you don't respond at all. And Diane, just her body, just that, that type of cancer was not going to respond to the treatment.

2 (28m 28s):
And then,

0 (28m 30s):
But that was our experience. We had nothing whooped. He had massive surgery, they took it two or three vertebrae. I can't remember if his neck rebuilt the whole thing with titanium. They didn't do chemo. Cause it's never worked on a sings. It just doesn't care. They smashed it with radiation. And we had an interesting experience with our radiation doctor, whatever they called. And he was a little arrogant and he said, this will fix it. It'll kill it. There's nothing that can survive this. And it grew whilst that that trait was gone and he was sitting there just open mouth. He was just looking at a scan. I'm so sorry. I was convinced. And we ended up saying to him, I'll say it to you and said, mate, just remember the, you don't know at all.

0 (29m 10s):
Okay. And listen, because he wasn't listening to my, my ex was very on it. She knew a lot of different treatments overseas that were being used and it's not a criticism. He just thought he knew what he was doing. And he just went there. It's rare. So it didn't work, but yeah, just nothing worked. It's not a thing. We never got one good news.

2 (29m 30s):
And with dynami she was on a feeding tube at one point and she got, she got pneumonia and Oh, you know, it just, just all just turned a shit really quick. Like it didn't just like all this is we're going. Like it happened within three or four months. She was there walking around. She'd come round with the chemo bag. She'd be walking around and go, how are you cat? You know, to suddenly in a wheelchair. Like it was just, it was things that, and I had to pull away from. I went to her funeral, so did two or three of the other girls who were young because Diane was young. She was early forties.

2 (30m 10s):
And you know, it's, you know, it's such a weird experience because you, you, you feel guilty that you didn't die, but you've just had two boobs cut off radiation, six months therapy, acceptance, you know, you've got to live with this fear of it coming back. And you, you feel guilty that like, it's just the weirdest,

0 (30m 34s):
We got a terrible thing just for a wall. It was really tough. Like Jake is a twin was twin whichever way you want to put it. And his brother got guilt because he was four and we had to get checked and he got x-rayed and scanned and all the gear to make sure there was nothing in him. And it wasn't, and he got a lot of guilt and he probably still carries a bit of it. I don't know. It's not something we talk about regularly any anymore, but yeah. So I'm an, I feel, yeah. I mean, I didn't, but I watched him get there.

2 (31m 9s):
Survivor's guilt. And, and I, I really recognize it as an issue. Now I actually found, you know, I read a lot of things about different processes you'd go through. And, you know, I had throughout the, throughout the whole, I guess, treatment period, I, I was, you know, I saw psychologists and things like that. I actually think the hardest part is when you finish treatment and you're sitting out and you're going, well, what's beating this, you know, what's in me now that's going to stop this thing. Or, you know, and you really fall at that period because you go, Oh my God. And people start to say, your hair starts coming back. So people think you're totally you're okay. Cat's okay. She's got a hair back. She's a survivor. She beat it.

2 (31m 49s):
Hang on. There's you know, it's like, dude, I don't know. You know, they don't, they don't say to you now you're cured. They say to you, you know, evidence of disease. Yeah. So, you know, I mean, it's, this is, this is a forever game for me. I haven't had people say to me, well, when are you, when are you going to go back to work full time? And I think made I'm wrecked on I'm still

0 (32m 11s):
What physical effects do you have apart from the fact that lost your boobs? Is there anything and Rachel as well, you said that that hit you the hardest

2 (32m 21s):
A hundred percent. My, the mental game is the game. It's the game in, in life. You, you know, there's I playing sport and everything caught that it it's all your mental. Yeah. You know that, that's what makes you a champion. Look for me, fatigue is debilitating

0 (32m 41s):
Different game. Now it's a different game,

2 (32m 44s):
Really hard for me because I'm not used to it. I'm not used to going for a run or, you know, having a big day and having to go like genuinely having to go. I need to hug and lie down now. Like I've got the shakes. I think it just takes so much out of you. And I think So February was when I had my last acceptance and they say to me, the one of the cycle, I mean, that's, I called the oncologist, said to me, at one point she said, cat, this can take 10 years, mate. I was like 10 years. Cause I'm just not, I want to, I'm an aunt, I'm a doer.

2 (33m 27s):
I want to do stuff. I want to take stuff on. I want to, you know, challenge myself. I like doing stuff like that. Yes. I get busy. Yes. You know, people go, you're working too hard, all of those things. But I actually, this is who I am. You know what I mean? You can't, this isn't going to change fundamentally who I am. I just need to, I need to understand better. My limitations of what actually is achievable because I very quickly can go downhill and need

0 (33m 59s):
Running out of steam. Like you didn't use to a hundred percent. Yeah. Well, tell us about, look, I wasn't gonna mention a sponsor today or anything. Cause I wanted to talk about your stuff. Now you got out of these and did exactly what I'd expect you to do on did cool sheet out of it. Cause one of my biggest signs, I say all the time is that out of the darkest times can come the best stuff. And because for me, you have to I've used Jake's or our experience. It was our experience to try and make my world a better place. And, and like give up my old, I don't do real estate anymore, particularly because it just wasn't fulfilling. And you know, so I do the community stuff and whatever, because it, it makes me feel like I'm worthwhile and gives me purpose and all those sort of bits and pieces, but you've done some very cool stuff.

0 (34m 46s):
Tell me all about it.

2 (34m 47s):
Yeah. So when I went through treatment, I, I found it very difficult to find products and services that really met the need of all of the different stages. So losing your hair, you know, the psychological elements, the nutrition side of things,

0 (35m 6s):
No I'm going to be losing your hair. And that was a pretty big deal to you. Wasn't it? Did you hear that? Because I remember you were a lot of headscarves and other bits and pieces and you'd never been a vain person that I knew it wasn't your rock up in anything a lot of the time and just have a good time, but then knocked around. Didn't it

2 (35m 26s):
Look it's it's I'm also, I think Ryan, I'm someone who doesn't like to show what I'm feeling as such. So losing your hair, you are now a cancer patient. Yeah. That's my thoughts. If I see it, it is, and I didn't want sympathy from people and I didn't want people to talk about me in that context. So that was difficult for me. That was really, really difficult. I knew I really avoided going a lot of places.

2 (36m 8s):
Not because I was embarrassed that I lost my hair, but because I didn't want people to see that I wasn't strong or that there was some weakness. Does that make

0 (36m 19s):
A hundred percent well on slightly everything and I'm sorry, I don't wanna talk about my thing, but I got so, so done with people, ask me how things were fuck to shut up. And so I, I ended up setting up a Facebook page and added like 300 people to it. And I said, he's my blog. Don't ask me. Cause it's fucked. It's like, it's just sheet. And every time you asked me, I have to talk about it again.

2 (36m 46s):
And you have to be, you have to throw a sense of positiveness in it. Almost like I'd go. Yeah, no, it's going really well. Yeah. Now it's all. And I'm thinking to myself, Holy fuck. I got to go home. Like, I don't want to be here anymore. I couldn't cope with it. I still, to this day, struggle with, I struggled a lot with dropping the kids or picking the kids up from school because I always got pulled up and I just went. I said to Jay, I can't, am I over this? Yeah,

0 (37m 15s):
Done. I knew people meant, well, a really deep, but I remember saying one point in time, I think I put it in Facebook, which is my little fucking sounding board. Sometimes what I said, please enough with the fucking thoughts and prayers. I'm freaking sick of it. I'm in a fight here. That's just out of control. And I got some criticism for all. People just mean the best. Great. Okay. That's wonderful. Thank you. And I know, look, we got, we got like 30 grand or whatever for, for go fund me, which was just amazing. And we took him on trips and utilities, but it was fuck the whole time.

2 (37m 48s):
This is the thing people go, Oh, you know, cause we were the same. We got some money through GoFund me and pink Friday and things like that. Make money is funny. It's just a thing,

0 (38m 1s):
As you know, all we did was cause you're in charge of it, which is great. But we just took your money where you want to give you me read venture. We could give you, cause we knew he was doing all that winter.

2 (38m 11s):
Yes, it is so good because you, you know those memories and experiences much better than things. But yeah.

0 (38m 19s):
But yeah, but it was just fucking killing me. People asking me all the time, please stop talking to me about it.

2 (38m 25s):
Just stay positive, stay

0 (38m 27s):
Positive. How about you? Step in my shoes

2 (38m 29s):
For me, my ward for two hours, knowing that, you know, every time I went into that chemo ward, the one thing I knew was my was going to be fried for 10 days. So I knew, so I would cry before I would walk down that Carter and mom and say, come on, babe, we've got an odd game, mom. I just don't know that I can do this and she'd go, come on by. We got to do it. You've got to, you've got to get these drugs made. It's killing it. Think about your kids. And I got to the point where I was like, not that I didn't want to think about the kids or something, but I was like, I actually physically don't think I can do this anymore. I physically think I'm better off debt. Like I can't, I don't know how to do this anymore. I don't know how to, because I know I'm going to lose. I'm going to lose my mind for 10 days and I could do anything in that period.

2 (39m 12s):
Punch walls, throw things, stuff that was so out of character. And so, you know, just odd and then you'd cry because you got, you can't work out why this is happening. And it just a whole raft of things that you have to go through. And then suddenly, you know, you get to the end of that chemo and you're trying to get all that shit out your body, you know? And that's a long time. That's a long time to do that. You know? And then you got to go through a mastectomy and you getting wheeled into a award going, Oh my God. And then everyone's like, you got to celebrate each milestone mate, celebrate what's the fucking celebrate. Someone said, you got 100% pathological response. Don't get me wrong.

2 (39m 52s):
That's the best response. But I was like, Oh yeah, you don't remember the oncologist saying, we've all been really excited here. You know, we're so excited for your cat. You've got the best. And I went, yeah. And she goes, you should come on. Yeah, you're happy. And I said, mate, Oh, I'm just trying to look out the window. Like, I'm just trying to figure out when I can drive again. I'm just trying to figure out what, what the hell is going on. I'm still back at Monday when I found out I had breast cancer, that's where I'm at. Cause all this shit that's happened in the last seven, eight, nine months has gone so fast, which is great, but so slow at the same time. Yeah.

2 (40m 32s):
You know, it's, it's incredible. How quickly I look back and go, Oh my God, it's been two years or whatever. Since my diagnosis yet living each of those days was, Oh my God, you know, just incredibly difficult experience.

0 (40m 49s):
It felt like a lifetime to me going through it then. And now it feels surreal thinking about it to allow us to grow that, that, that all happened. And this is reality. And I mean, I caught it from wake up thinking Jake's alive or dream value. And then I can't forget if the dream is real. The reality is real and all these sort of, it's just weird. But now I, I put you off track a little bit, but I want to ask you also losing your boobs. Now, as I said, you'd never been a vain woman to my knowledge. How's that

2 (41m 17s):
Look? Yeah. It's funny. Like for me, chemo was the big deal because my mind, I worry more about my mind than I do. My physical losing hair was difficult because it was a really, it was something people could see and your skin goes yellow. You really do look very ill. You look very ill. I'm on chemo. Losing my boobs was almost the easiest part. If that makes sense.

0 (41m 52s):
No, that's interesting because a lot of women would feel differently.

2 (41m 55s):
And so when I hear women say I'm going back to get reconstruction or catch or not, you know, what should I do? And I go, mate, I just, I really have no idea. I really can't answer that question. That is so individual, everyone has their own relationship with their boobs and their feet and their fingers and their water. You know what I mean? There's some things mean more than other things. Some people go and get a nose job because they've got, you know, go, I just go, go for it. If, if it's, if it's something that's bothering you, then I think you have to, you have to take progressive steps to try and help, you know, your mental situation. So it losing the

0 (42m 33s):
Boobs for me for reconstruction,

2 (42m 36s):
I haven't known. So I have to wait about two years and then I can decide, okay, I haven't, I'd say I haven't said no, I haven't said yes, I am just happy. I don't have to be.

0 (42m 51s):
Yeah, let's just do that for a while. I said, no, I'm fine. Now it's fine for me right now.

2 (42m 57s):
I couldn't do. I think like I'm at the point in my, in this journey where I am just really happy. I only have to visit the hospital. Now once every six months, that's a real bonus for me. When I went back to the oncologist a month ago and she said, cat, we're on six monthly visits. Now I near cried. That was more exciting for me than anything else. That's incredibly important to me that I just start to rebuild a life outside of hospital visits, which you would understand that they become, it actually becomes a part of your routine, which is, is quite awful that that's,

0 (43m 33s):
I hated them before. Cause I just feel like misery to me. Oh God, Jacob, this world what's nice. One day. And this poor doctor was having a hard time getting a needle into him. And Jake was seriously Gunn lift bit lift. And he didn't, he's got a needle in his arm at this point in time, a bit left more. You got it. And he could just knew he'd had so many now that he knew what was going on.

2 (43m 59s):
And I just think that's awful. Like I think about like some of the things that I've been through and I know some of the girls who are stage four, this is just normal. And I go, what has my life become that I know the Prince Charles car park at that hospital back to front. You know what I mean? That it just everything like that. Like I just, I feel like it's, it's not fair or, you know, but it's reality. So I, I sort of, you know,

0 (44m 27s):
I mean, w we've done anything, anything, all to stop what happened? Yes. But it's just reality. You just got to roll with it, but yeah,

2 (44m 36s):
You do mate. That's your cross to bear and you, you have to figure out, it's almost like building a puzzle. You have to figure out how best you can do it. And there's going to be times when it's shit and you can't, you can't seem to put the pieces together, but you've just, I now just say to myself today is just one day tomorrow. I'll fight again, you know, and I'll figure it out. I have days where, you know, it's shit and I just want to lie on my bed and I just want to sit and go, Oh my God, I'm exhausted. I don't know what's happening. Where am I? Like, it's almost this surreal kind of what the fuck has happened. You know? Like what's happened to my life.

2 (45m 17s):
Why can I not do those things? Why am I struggling with this? Why am I, why am I building fucking brands? Yeah. What am I doing? And you ha you know, sometimes you have to accept that that's what your body or what your mind is focusing on at that point in time. You know what I mean? I think that's really important as well to go, okay, well, at this point in time, mate, you're not coping. Yeah. And you just gotta, you gotta kind of, I just ha I really have to accept it now. There's only some times that I really feel like, or I could do something really like silly right now, like throw something or, you know, I could get really angry.

0 (45m 56s):
Well, I kept getting, it was weird. I was fine. I was, well, I mean, apart from teas and missing him and all that stuff, but about a month and a half after he died, I was sitting there talking to a bloke on Almeda mine. And I just had this massive fucking panic attack. That was exactly the same feeling as when we were first told that that's over. And then I had about six of them in pretty, and I'm thinking, fuck, I'm going down here. But I was frightened. Then I thought it was this I've applied a few. Fusey the same. Good. And I'd had some experience with Gavin, penny techs from years ago and whatever, but these were bad. And then it stopped.

2 (46m 35s):
Yeah. And they come back quick and you, and you, you, and you do all the things, you know, they say, do the breathing deep breaths, look at a color, concentrate on something, you know, and you do all of that. And it's when you do all that, and then you go not stop working, I'm losing it. I'm losing.

0 (46m 54s):
And that's it. And fuck. I mean, I'm feeling tingling now. It's talking about the fucking things.

2 (46m 58s):
It, it, because you know what, it's the hard thing for me in that Ryan is that I actually can't control that. And that it takes me back to chemo because there were points there where I was doing things and I was going, I actually physically can't control that, you know, because of the steroids and everything like that. And you know, it's roid rage, you know, and you're sitting and going, Oh my God, I can't. And so then you start having a panic attack about the fact you can't control it. Then you're having a panic attack because you're having a panic attack. And then you're totally, and it's just, you're going around and around in circles. And it's so, so hard. And I think that's why I push for counseling and psychology for people all the time.

2 (47m 39s):
I think I talk to my kids, you need a doctor for your body and you need, you need a doctor for your mind.

0 (47m 46s):
You, this

2 (47m 47s):
Is, this is non-negotiable in our household because I just think there's too many things that happen now in life that are extremely difficult. People are exposed to things that are extremely difficult, like cancer or a, another really shit disease. My dad died of a heart attack at 52 suddenly, you know, there's lots of things that you're going to have to deal with in your life that are going to be really bad.

0 (48m 15s):
And, and you got to have that backup. I mean, you do it. I struggled a bit with the counseling when Jake was alive. Cause I just, I just said to one lady, she was lovely and she was trying to hard. And I said, can you tell me he's not going to die? And she said, no. And I said, well, I can't talk to you. And cause that's that thing. And I mean, I can deal with it afterwards, but just having this open wound in your heart.

2 (48m 40s):
Totally. And it's a process because you know, some of the psychologists that I've had have been really good. Some I haven't been compatible with, you know what I mean? I like the ones that are really honest with me and we'll go cat, you need to stop that. Or, you know, almost like schoolteacher mentality, like, you know, no that's not appropriate or you need to, you know,

0 (49m 7s):
And they're just coaches like, you know, I mean, sorry, a bit off, I guess. But like I've often said to Roger, Federer has a coach. Yep. Roger Federer's coach is never going to be a better player than Roger Federer, but why has he got to coach? Because he can see things from the outside that you can't see when you're in it. And that's, that was some of the things that I've done since during it was tough. I can't say I got much relief from anywhere because I just kept thinking, there's nothing you can do to change this. And it's just, I've got to just fucking have this and deal with it. And, and that was kind of it, but yeah, counseling system must and talking to people and just get it up. Okay. I screwed you up, but okay.

0 (49m 47s):
So you found it very hard to get products.

2 (49m 50s):
Look, I th I just, I found it hard. You can get the products it's I just couldn't find information in one place in one source. So I decided that I wanted to produce what we call the, know your knockers, breast cancer pocket guide. And that guide just provides information on products and services that are available for patients as they go along their journey in their geographical location, this year's guide. So this year we've gone into Queensland all over Queensland. So we've done a regional Queensland guide and a Southeast Queensland guide. And we've also done a Sydney one I've really focused on the information side of things.

2 (50m 31s):
And the reason for that is I'm trying to help women get off Facebook or Google searches or things like that, because what happens is, and you know what, I'm sure you did the same straightaway. You know, what is her two positive breast cancer? What is the survival rate of her two positive breast cancer

0 (50m 52s):
Earlier? Sorry. Percentages three things kill me percentages and how long I talk because there's nothing it's bullshit.

2 (51m 2s):
I can't, no one can tell me, so, you know, why, why did I get

0 (51m 6s):
Her two positive breast cancer? Oh,

2 (51m 8s):
There's a range of different factors. Okay. I don't take any of them boxes. So then I'm back to, well, so white, so then I'm digging, then I'm digging for stuff. Then I'm looking. So there was one day I was looking for information on, I had a bit of dizziness or something quite decent. I was looking for information on it. And I looked and looked and I found this research study that had happened in India. And it was about her two positive women who had a hundred percent pathological response who got brain cancer. So I was convinced that's me. That was me. And this is in the middle of the night. Mind you, this is at two o'clock in the morning when my brain is buzzing, like a,

0 (51m 47s):
Until two o'clock in the mornings, pretty much a shooter's day out.

2 (51m 55s):
And, and Jay had roll over and go get off that thing. And I'd go,

0 (51m 57s):
Don't tell me what to do. You don't know what this is like,

2 (51m 60s):
You know? And so you're unreasonable. You can't be spoken to. And I found this article, so that was may, I was convinced nuts, spine cancer. I'm going into same array. I'm getting a thing. I'm doing a brain MRI. Then I get in and I get to do the, the I'm doing this brain MRI, which I knew in my gut. I knew Ryan, I did not have this. I knew. And then after that, when, once she gave me the slip to go and get this MRI, I had to get it because I had the slip in my bag. And in my head I was going, I've got the slip in my bag, perhaps to get this. I went on a trip for work up to Darwin. And I came back and I said to Jay, I'm going to get that brain MRI.

2 (52m 40s):
He said, he goes, you don't need, you know, because Marie had said to me, my uncle's cat, you don't have brain cancer. You've got low iron. You're fine. You're fine. That's why you're getting dizzy spells. You got low blood pressure in my mind, not a CIT going in, went straight in, got it, getting this brain, you know, getting, cause you got to get your vein. You know, you've got to get this stuff going through your vein, everything. And I'm because I'd had a bad experience with my diagnosis in terms of it was missed I'm okay. So how long is this re radiographer going to look at my brain MRI? How many others has he worked on today before working on this one? Is there going to be someone that checks it or is it just team paranoia sets in?

2 (53m 23s):
And this plate's looking at me like this is as lost as shit. And then he says to me, he goes, what, what symptoms are you having? He said, have you been having like visionary difficulties? And I know you guys have you

4 (53m 37s):
He's gone. What are you doing here?

2 (53m 43s):
Why? And I said, I've had breast cancer. He sort of nodded. And I thought to myself, aren't even KMA. We go on into that machine and we getting it done. And we did no this night, Brian cancer. Right.

4 (53m 52s):
Did you believe it or you're over there now?

2 (53m 56s):
I always thought I needed again. I, I knew, I knew I didn't have it, but I couldn't. My fear was just building and building and building until I could break that cycle, it was just going to continue. So I knew I had to get it done and that I think that's helped me because now when I do get a Creek or a, you know, and I think to myself, Oh my God, is it back in my bones? I really think much more clearly about it. And you know, Marie, my oncologist has sat me down and said, cat, get off the Google searches, make a Google doc. You cannot live your life. And I realized this now, and for those of you that are still doing it, I get it.

2 (54m 38s):
Totally. You've got to go through the process. You know what I mean? But Google searching is, is really, really detrimental to your mental health during a crisis, during a crisis.

4 (54m 53s):
Cause you pick up every sheet thing,

2 (54m 56s):
Looking you are actively looking for the thing that tells you that that fear is right. Yeah. And I even now I am very tempted. We, we, we lost a girl just recently from child level and I worked a bit with her husband and we were really shocked when she went as well. It spread to her brain and straightaway. I was ready to Google search and I went, no I'm going to ring Marie. Who's my oncologist. And I rang the oncologist and said, can you tell me what the differences between hers and mine? Can you just reiterate that for me took two minutes. I said, yep. No worries, Marie, thanks. Hung up the phone.

2 (55m 36s):
Yep. You know, I think we have to be, we have to be accepting of the knowledge of the people that are in our court because they know us and know, you know, so that's one of the reasons that's probably the primary reason why I'd love this pocket guide, this breast cancer pocket guide, simply because it has a lot of that information in there. So those questions that run through your head, like, should I get a bilateral mastectomy? What, you know, what does statistics actually mean? You know, what are the different types of breast cancer? All of that sort of stuff is in that guide to try and get people to understand a little bit more about the cancer.

2 (56m 21s):
So we are not, when you go in and get a breast cancer, same as you with Jake mate, you suddenly are thrown into this world. That is very, that has extensive amount of research already done has a lot of professionals working in, in the area of cancer. There is a lot that changes on a daily basis in terms of trials, you know, different drugs, different types of surgery, radiation techniques are changing now from when I had breast cancer. So you, you, you can't rely on outdated information and you have to be very careful about what path that sends you on in a mental context.

2 (57m 4s):
So guide sort of allows patients to question things without being in a very vulnerable space, like the wide world web.

0 (57m 14s):
Yeah. And cause yeah, you can vote anything you want there really. So before we wrap it up, tell me more about your stuff. Tell me where like people could find you, what you provide. So you got the pocket guide, which is awesome.

2 (57m 26s):
Cancer nurses will be given those in the next couple of months for, for this year's version or this year and next year's then we've got I also and that's on if you want to download a copy so you can go onto www dot, know your knockers.com.

0 (57m 43s):
Yep. And I'll flick that up on a Facebook page and also stuff.

2 (57m 46s):
And the other one is I also now am manufacturing. Well, I'm not manufacturing them. I have a manufacturer that's manufacturing. I can't so mastectomy bras for breast cancer survivors. They're great. They're just really soft. Great for under strappy dresses. They're really Queensland. Like, you know, they're sort of focused on that summer and just being able to provide something that's a little bit nicer than what you would find in, you know, the big strap sort of.

0 (58m 22s):
Yeah. I don't like practical things. I like things that are fun and cool stuff. So you can have practical as well, but to make it nice as well.

2 (58m 28s):
And, and I think to them, yeah, as we spoke about earlier, you know, breast cancer is seen as an older woman's disease. So a lot of the products that are out there are targeted

0 (58m 38s):
To ladies, little beige,

2 (58m 40s):
A lot big thick straps to hold these heavy prosthesis will prosthesis aren't heavy anymore. You know what I mean? They've done some really good stuff in that space. So you don't need to have those sorts of things. You can have the cool little browse and things like that. So, you know, we're, we're doing that. We just we're just about to add swimwear. Yeah. So it's really fun. So you go onto www dot F U K cancer.

0 (59m 5s):
If w U U K. If I'm missing something here, that's good. Now we'll sign that up there as well and give it a look. But yeah, no, that's cool. Great work on what you're doing. And the fact you've, as I said, you've, you've made something great out of something terrible, ease the credit. It's a tough thing to do, but I I'd get into Holly while you do it. Is there anything else you want to add buddy, before you wrap it up?

2 (59m 35s):
No, I, I, I, you know what I think, you know, for anyone that goes through this or is going through this, this, this is a tough gig. Let's not underestimate how shit and how tough theses and how they, and I guess there will be many really challenging parts of it that some will challenge you more than others. But understanding that this is really, this is really a lifetime, you know, obstacle that you have to face and you, you never going to get away from that. So try and try and source out as much help as you can about it because it's, that's the only way you're going to be able to get through because it's a forever, once, once you've touched, once cancer's touched you in whatever light, particularly at a very, at that very personable level, you live with that forever.

2 (1h 0m 34s):
And it's trying to find home for it. That's not debilitating and

0 (1h 0m 42s):
Well that's, I guess that's your, your spot. There is partly a place to reach out and to check out and to get information from because you won't do it very well on your own and you just, what's more experienced with it too. And that's why I do this tribe and all these other bits and pieces, because I just had so many people that I used and I used them and I thank God that let me use them totally because I needed to. And so now I get where you're coming from and Tali and Eddie's, I mean, everything. Yeah. Skies, it's just Scott

2 (1h 1m 14s):
That a big scar because you, you, you know, I think it's just, everyone's deep-seated fee like losing a child who wants that slight, you know, losing a husband. Yeah. Losing your mum and dad, there's almost an element of, well, we know that's going to happen, you know, hopefully not prematurely, but you know, I it's, it's part of the circle of life. Whereas, you know, when you start thinking about losing a child or, or going through cancer or being, you know, it's just, it's not what you think.

0 (1h 1m 48s):
You never think you get on that light, but, but my cat, thanks stacks. Oh, we'll have a chat with you. And I really appreciated our open and honest discussions that we always have. And you were there for me a lot. And I really appreciated that. I, yeah, I'm grateful for that. I also want thank cats, kids that are out just outside of our room, who have been pretty bloody good. So thank you very much for that. And I'd like to thank the Morton Bay regional council for running an angle grinder right outside my room while I was trying to do this. So thanks next. That really appreciate it, gang. Thanks very much for listening to us. I hope you got something out of it. We'll catch up next week on no humble opinions.