Ep 33: Modern Slavery

Although many of of think that slavery is a shameful part of our history the slave trade is still going strong. Ryno and Judy discuss the sex slave trade, people trafficking and overseas manufacturing conditions.

#slavery #modernslavery #nohumbleopinions
#straighttalk
#unpopularopinion #unpopularopinions #podcast #podcastlife #podcastrecommendations #podcastseries #politicallyincorrect #politicalcorrectness

Transcript

0 (1s):
Hi there, rhino here from no humble opinions, the podcast where we talk to interesting people about interesting things today, I'll be talking to Judy about the difficult subject of modern slavery and our sponsors are the catchment brewing company in West end.

1 (17s):
<inaudible>. Hello, Ryan, how are you? Welcome aboard. Thank you.

0 (36s):
I've got to say that I'm having a Pepsi at the moment, which is a little unusual for me, but Matt from the Catrin brewing company, didn't bring me my, my bees for my sponsorship. Oh, that's incredibly sad. Oh no, thanks Matt. That's double near buddy. Take that. I'll still do my job. You tell me why you're here today. Why are we talking to you about the terrible subject of modern slavery

2 (1m 3s):
Ryan, as you know, we were connected on Facebook and we've caught up at the local RSL every now and then. And slavery has been my passion and my husband's passion for a very long time. The abolishment of it, not actually it, no. Yes. You know, I think that's important if you're, if you're an abolitionist. So for me, it's something that we came across probably about 20, 25 years ago. We're traveling in Southeast Asia and in Southeast Asia, we met in, met some people in Thailand, in Bangkok that worked with survivors of slavery, particularly sexual slavery women who'd been in brothels.

2 (1m 51s):
And they, these people had rescued them, rescued them from the brothels and what they did was they're helping them develop new skills to go out and earn other types of living. And through that, we started looking at lots of books and reading about the, the issue of slavery. We looked at William Wilberforce, who was a driving force in slavery, back in the transatlantic slave, a slave trade and getting laws passed in the United Kingdom. And when we started reading about it, it's really horrible to think that what slavery is is people actually own other people, which in this world today we don't exchange happens.

0 (2m 32s):
I think about it a fair bit this morning, just knowing that we were going to have this chat. And I guess the, the easy image of slavery's the American situation and the cotton fields and what have you. And, you know, predominantly black people are chained together and being whipped and beaten. And, and then you can say, Oh, well that was all abolished. And that all changed. But I will say this Eve the last few years, I've become quite conscious about one. And I want to talk about the sexual slavery thing. Cause I have questions about that. I, you know, I just think that's a very disturbing, you know, part of, part of the world at the moment, but I find it weird when someone walks into a major department store and can buy a t-shirt for four bucks that was made in Bangladesh.

0 (3m 17s):
Now you have to make that. So you've got materials, you've got labor, you've got transport, you've got the people in department store, folding it and putting together and doing these bits. And in it, that's a lot of work for four bucks. Someone's not getting paid. I, I bet you, I know who it is. And that's the poor little, poor little person selling it together,

2 (3m 36s):
Sewing it or picking the cotton. Yeah. It could be any of those things anywhere along the supply chain. And you're a hundred percent, right. And even in some department stores, you can buy that t-shirt for $2, which makes you question it even more.

0 (3m 52s):
I can't remember that being a thing when I was younger, like I can't remember El parents being able to clothe us for that type of money.

2 (3m 59s):
So what's happened is I can't tell you within the exact timeframe, but we've got a thing called fast fashion. And what it is is apparently our years ago, they'd only be a couple of fashion cycles a year. And I was doing a talk for another organization recently and on fast fashion. And I learned that fast fashion. We have something like 52 fashion cycles a year now. Yeah. Virtually. And what happens is these, some of these businesses, what they do is they try to replicate or sort of copy what's coming out on the catwalks of Milan and wherever.

2 (4m 40s):
And so what they actually do is they try to make something very similar and flog it off to the market. It is never meant to last because what they want you to do is use it, you know, like a few times, and then you throw it away and then buy something else which keeps, keeps them in business. So back in, I know you're a wee bit younger than I am back

3 (4m 60s):
Back. Not, not that much

2 (5m 2s):
I'm looking at in people I can see.

3 (5m 5s):
Yeah, they were in the room,

0 (5m 8s):
Steve's here by the way. And he's fine. Hubby, more gray than both. He makes me look a little younger

2 (5m 15s):
So that, so we didn't have that back in our day. We didn't have that drive for people with, you know, the fashion cycles and this disposable. Because back in my day, I was, I'm a sixties child. My mother used to make all my clothes. You know, she used to bake biscuits, you know, all the stuff that's becoming quite fashion, you know, fashionable and popular now. But what we've seen is with, you know, consumerism and supermarkets and department stores and things like that, people can just go out and get what they want when they want. And a lot of people don't want to spend too much money, but they want to keep up to date with fashion, for example,

0 (5m 55s):
A hundred percent. And it blows my a little bit to see how cheap you can get things. And I I've often wondered who's at the bottom of this. Who's at the bottom of his power getting nothing. And I mean, Bangladesh is a country. I've heard a lot about that. There's some major issues in there, but we mentioned clothing. In addition to that, just some of the research I've done recently, you can get a microwave for 80 bucks. Okay. Now, easy ago, hundreds of dollars a year, and you kicked him ridiculously Emma's mum and dad have had like one for like 30 years or something, but it still works or nothing like that surround anymore. And a guest of mine a few weeks ago, Liz was talking about the repair shops, not a staff putting, you know, fixing things roost.

0 (6m 36s):
Now we just Chuck them out because it's easier. And it goes into landfill and it goes into landfill. But on the other side of things is to someone's out there working for nothing. And the reason, I guess, I've stayed slightly away from the sexual slavery, which we will get onto is at the end of this. I want to be able to say, what can we do now? I'm not suggesting that a lot of our listeners out there are using prostitutes or using sexual services. I mean, I could bang, make sure they're getting paid properly. I think that's fair. And we talked to Joan a few, a few weeks ago in regards to owning a brothel so she can talk to you more about that. But what we can do is vote with our dollars, vote with our wallets, as much as anything and pay a bit extra.

0 (7m 20s):
You've got onto my passion, okay, go for it.

2 (7m 22s):
My absolute passion is ethical consumerism. I'm in the last or final stages of my PhD, which I'm looking at modern slavery and how anti-slavery organizations communicate on Facebook and how they can motivate normal. What I call everyone everyday people like you and I, what can we do to make a difference? And ethical consumerism is one way we can do it. The problem with ethical consumerism is that it's not easy to know which organizations or which companies may or may not have slavery in their supply chains. In 2018 Australia introduced the modern slavery bill.

2 (8m 6s):
And it's where big, big organizations I'm talking. Like I think it's what, over a hundred thousand dollars. I think I'm just looking at my husband for inspiration here, but about a hundred thousand dollars, whatever it is, it's a huge amount of money. If they've got income coming like that, then they must or must be millions. Yes. Forgive me, look it up. Goo it's on Google, but whatever it is, they're big companies and they have to report on what they're doing to get rid of slavery in their supply chains. But as you know, we've got lots and lots of small to business, smaller, medium sized business owners. They're not, they don't have to report. They don't have to do that. Some do, but a lot of art and it's a hard road to go down because what happens with save?

2 (8m 51s):
You've got a supply chain over in Asia, for example, you say, Oh right, we're coming to inspect you today. And what would you do, Ryan? If you had the business come and you'd make sure everything was spic and span and everyone's so happy and laugh and laugh until they give you an extra. Sorry.

0 (9m 10s):
No, I love what you're saying, but I just figured something out that maybe the people who are listening don't know what we're talking about. Yeah. Let's back up just a little touch. What? Okay. In a circuit, let's have a talk about firstly, the clothing industry or the electronics industry. How does slavery work? What are we talking about here? Like how does this all come about? Was it just people having jobs?

2 (9m 33s):
No, they're not. They're not jobs in a lot of the cases. As you know, look at, first of all, I'm just going to precede this by saying I'm no expert on the electronics industry nor the fashion industry, but I'll tell you what I know about slavery. What I know is that people want things that are cheap these days. You know, like our money is important. As we said, there's a disposable society and an attitude that goes with it. Now a lot of people you've probably heard of this being campaigns, what she makes in the fashion industry, for example, but what happens there is that's more labor exploitation where they are getting paid, but they're not getting paid a living wage that is bad enough.

2 (10m 17s):
But where my passion lies is with modern slavery. And that is where people are a commodity. So they probably don't get paid. Or if they do get paid, then they've got to pay exorbitant amounts in accommodation and food, et cetera. And the main point on slavery today is that a person exercises the power of ownership over another person. So what that means is that someone is being exploited and controlled and their freedom isn't there anymore. So they can't go to work and leave at four o'clock and go and pick up the kids or whatever they're there.

2 (10m 60s):
They're used. They're like, and what's so why I think human slavery or human trafficking is the third biggest crime we've got the drugs and guns and then the human trafficking and why human trafficking is so appealing because you can keep no, not to ask guys. I know that the two to the traffickers and those people to the baddies is the fact that they can use those people over and over and over again. What they need to do is give them a feed here and there. So it is a very attractive in verdict, commerce crime to people who are that way inclined. Yeah.

0 (11m 39s):
Now thank you for that. And I mean, my understanding of it is probably more when people are trafficked, which is, you know, bought into a country where they, I think, correct me if I'm wrong on any of this, but they're promised a better life and they've been told it's all going to be. And then all of a sudden, when they arrive, they don't know the language, they've got no way to leave. And someone will say to them now for me doing that for you, you owe me $50,000. You have to pay off and you never pay it off and you never pay it off because you will charge exorbitant rates for your rent. You've got to pay this, you got to pay that. And then it's just, yeah.

2 (12m 11s):
And what happens too, is passports are taken away. So they've got no chance of escaping. Also this are threats and actual physical violence, CIS strengths against their family back home, the save, you don't do what we say. We know where you live and we will do something to harm your family back home. So these people are living under a constant fear of what may, you know, what is or may be happening to them and what may happen to their families. And the thing with what modern slavery is. And like you did talk in the beginning about the transatlantic slave trade. And that's what we all think of. When we think of slavery, we think of people in chains, working in the fields, et cetera.

2 (12m 55s):
But what slavery is today is the fact that these people are, they could just look like you and me. We don't know. And we'll talk about that a little bit, a little bit later on, on, on what we, what people can do. But the thing is, they're not in chains. So they just look like normal everyday people. And it's a very covert crime. The fact that it can go on undetected and when, you know, people like the police or whatever, start to try and vest investigate, and we've seen this happen in the sex industry in Thailand, they just go further and further underground and making it difficult for people, you know, for the authorities to do anything about.

0 (13m 37s):
Yeah. I mean, it's, it's just an incredibly difficult situation in that. I mean, okay. I did a recent episode about the family law court and we touched very briefly on financial abuse in relationships with that. And I'm actually doing a interview on this soon about financial abuse in relationships. But once you have lost that power, once you have no ability to pay for anything, you don't have any of your own sort of finances to be able to do anything. You're, you're always screwed. You've got to run to someone in the street and say, please help me. I'm in trouble here. And if the door is never open and you never aligned, that's gotta be pretty difficult to.

2 (14m 19s):
And if language is a barrier to, you know, if they don't speak the language of the country, it's hard to communicate. A lot of these people are watched constantly. So there isn't an opportunity. I remember don't quote me on this, but I remember there was an, some slavery in a nail bar, I think somewhere at Chermside, a number of years ago, and the women were taken in, in a van from where they were living to work. They worked long hours taken back to where they go, you know, again, no contact with anyone, if they don't speak English, you know, the ladies that they were looking after, they couldn't communicate, et cetera.

0 (15m 0s):
Yeah. It's yeah. And it's people love to say, Oh, you just do you. Can't like, it's just, it's just that Penn you've been overseas. And as soon as you spoke about Thailand, she'll tell us some of your experiences, tell me what you saw. And I guess what, why is this your passion? Why is it so important to

2 (15m 19s):
I th I think I'll answer the, the wife first. I think it's important to me and to Steve as the fact that everybody deserves to be free in my opinion, and to see people, and we're not just talking men and women here, we're talking children as well, who pick cotton, who are, I don't want to get too deep into this cause I might start crying, but no, I didn't bring tissues, but you know, children who are used in pornography, we've read about children, babies as young as six months old in a pornography. I think there was a ring broken up very recently, recently.

2 (16m 2s):
And there were, and there were a straight Indians who were buying into, and I'm only saying Australian mainly because a lot of people tend to think that slavery is something that happens over there. It doesn't we sorry are Roman, sorry, everyone. We, when we were in Thailand, I remember we drove, you know, in the red light district, we were around there, you see the girls and you know, we don't know how old they were, but they certainly didn't look very old. I'm sorry, I'm going to have to cough again. Sorry. Sorry. So we, we saw girls in windows on display.

2 (16m 42s):
We sat Steve and I sat we're in Pattaya in Thailand. And we were in a bar at lunchtime one day and just trying to get cool. Cause it was so damned hot. And there were a group of middle plus men there proudly talking about what they would be doing that night with some of the women now, not largely women loosely to like girls, girls, not, I'm not against prostitution by any stretch of the imagination. And some may well have chosen that life. And that is their choice. But a lot of people in, in sexual slavery, there's no choice there they're forced.

2 (17m 25s):
And to service a number of clients each night, which would be absolutely horrific. Doesn't sound like a good time to me.

0 (17m 35s):
Yeah. I mean, we discussed this for Jain at the brothel, Madam a while back about the fact that cause some of her, some of her girls are Asian and we asked specifically like, is Evelyn and she's not, she's on all the checks. They're all happy doing everything they want to do. And that's their livelihood. And I have certainly no issue at all with, with prostitutes, are they heavily doing, applying their trade, which is fine. But if you're under duress and you've got a big ax hanging over your neck the entire time, then a cuddle up with six sweaty, fat Ozzy middle-aged guys in one night. That's not a good time. Yeah.

2 (18m 13s):
Right. If you're forced to do it and it's against your will, it's wrong, very wrong.

0 (18m 22s):
Yeah. That can't be any fun. Those girls having to put up with those guys every night, having, having the way with them as, as they wouldn't want to have them. So, but did you talk to any of the girls while you were here?

2 (18m 32s):
No. No. We didn't mainly not, not the ones who were still actively involved either in the prostitution or as which we can only imagine were possibly in, you know, slaves in the commercial sex industry. And a lot of the reason we don't do that is because we can actually cause more harm than good because as I were chatting before these slaves are watched well and true that where they're a prized possession, you know, as I said, they can be used over and over again. So in the interest of their safety and possibly as to, I don't run very fast, I just regard Steve, come on, swap this out.

0 (19m 15s):
<inaudible>

2 (19m 19s):
Yeah. So no I didn't. But what we did see was the other side. Cause when in, in moderns, in, in the slavery space, as I call it, you've got people who will do everything they can to prevent it. So some of the root causes of slavery poverty, because people trying to get out of that situation, you know, that they're, they're in. And sometimes as you mentioned just earlier come, you know, come overseas and we can all come to this country or this place and we can get you a job. You'll be earning X amount of dollars. And of course, if you haven't got much money and someone's offering you that that's quite appealing, go do it. So, so you've got people there who do everything they can to try and prevent people getting into slavery in the first place like micro businesses, you know, women making clothes or, you know, dressmaking or whatever, but trying to help them.

2 (20m 13s):
Then you have people there's an organization here in America and Australia and other countries too called international justice mission. And what they do is they work with the people over in the country that they're focusing on. They work with the police officers, the juror, the judges, the Judi judicial system. Couldn't get my tongue around that one. And what they do is say they show them what they need to do to get people to, you know, to be prosecuted and something I was reading today when I was doing a bit of prep for our chat, Ryan was then in a lot of countries, slavery isn't isn't illegal.

0 (20m 52s):
Well, that was good. Can I just ask you this? And I'm, I guess I'm talking about Thailand and maybe I shouldn't or whatever, but I mean, it's a well-known issue over there that you can get very young girls very easily and I've seen plenty of shows about it and heard many stories and so done. Do the Thai people care about these? Is it a problem for them or was it just a part of their life? And that's it?

2 (21m 12s):
I, I probably couldn't answer that question to be quite honest. I think perhaps would be part of their I'm looking at my husband's going. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's part of their culture too, you know, which is part of the fight there's also, and it's not just Thailand, it's in, sorry. It's in, it's not COVID you don't have to mask up rides, stop, stop getting away from the microphone. But it's, you know, the police officers. And as I say, in Cambodia, wherever some of these countries, they could be on the take, they could turn a blind eye, things like that.

2 (21m 55s):
So I remember when Steve and I were in Bangkok were taken by a taxi. It was a taxi driver, I think, took us around and showed us one of the places where the men hire the cab and they sort of put curtains around the outside of where, like they park it somewhere, put curtains around so that they can have sex with women in the car. Right? Yeah. So

0 (22m 21s):
A mobile little brothel going on there sort of thing.

2 (22m 23s):
Not necessarily anything to do with, you know, slavery, but that's what they do. And I remember when Steve and I were first to overseas in Southeast Asia used to think, Oh, this is terrible. You know, all these tourists, you know, six tourism. You've probably heard of that. I'm so sorry anyways. But what we found is that a lot of them are the locals. Yeah.

0 (22m 47s):
Ah, so, so it is a cultural thing for them over there as well. So it's not the weirdest thing in the world. So I question without notice here. So apologies, but I love going to Bali. It's heaps fun. The people are lovely and it's just a good time and it's cheap. It's cheap to go there, but in considering our discussion, it was coming out today. I started thinking to myself, do I do, am I creating a problem to a degree going over there? And what I mean by that is bartering is a big part of Balinese culture or in the markets anyway, from what I've seen. And it's sort of fun. Like I kind of enjoy it when I'm over there doing it, but it's, I see some guys go really hard on it.

0 (23m 31s):
And when you Sydney arguing with the guy about what's equivalent to 50 Australian cents, it sort of gives me the sheets of beat and it gets to be matched. Like I have on a cat on two occasions, Bardot and thought probably done a bit hard on this and it's given me more anyway, I just almost paid him for the fun of doing it, I guess. But we had an interesting situation Rover. The one time we were having a dinner and we'd had a stack of drinks and it was, we had this beautiful little waitress just cracking personality, great girl. And we said to her, you know what, you know how how's things don't know? She said, Oh yeah, I'm working really hard. I've got to pay my electricity bill at the moment. It's like, okay. Yeah, we got talking to her and we said, what's your bill?

0 (24m 12s):
And so three months or something and she was sweating on it hard. And it was 60 Australian bucks. And we said, how long will it take you to get that together? And it was a long time, weeks and weeks of no fun, no nothing, whatever. So we tipped a 60 bucks and, and, but it's just nothing and it's all well and good to go to a place. And I know we're supporting the, there are, we might, it just might be the tangent, sorry, but I know we're supporting the country. They want tourism over there. They want us going over there. And they're not particularly asking for anything more than that, but it's such a disparity between what we earn versus their earnings. And like we, we were saying, we've said before to people too, that we're dealing with, they're like, Oh, you'd have to come to Australia.

0 (24m 56s):
And they just look at you like you're off your head. Oh, that's something else to do. Sorry, last time we went, Emma and I got taken to a place called water bomb and it's a big waterpark and barley and our guides took us there and they just drop you off in the car park and then come back and pick you up later on all that stuff. And anyway, we said, we had a great day and we said to them, I've ever been, and they'll just do this. We can't afford that. Well, we could never go there. Let's just for tourists and that's it. And so we bought them tickets for that. And that was our, thank you at the end of it. But to have that lack of opportunity and for first world country people to take full advantage of that lack of opportunity, that's a pretty Chevy way that we leave.

0 (25m 37s):
Isn't it?

2 (25m 37s):
Yeah. I think again, not necessarily on, on the slavery issue. So again, I'm no expert. I can only tell you what I, what I think. No, no, no. I can tell you, I can tell you what I think is that. Yeah. I think I have seen Steve and I traveled for almost a month in China many years ago, just after it was open. I think it was. And we went and stayed with somebody. We knew who was the teacher there. I saw her bargain and barter, as you said within, it was absolutely embarrassing. We're talking like, you know, a hair clip that was meant to be 50 cents. She got it down to 10 cents or something off for goodness sakes.

2 (26m 18s):
Come on. But you know, on the other, on that triple, so rod, I again was sick. I was coughing a lot, but I was, I tended to wear the same shoes all the time, a pair of old boots. And they were disgusting really like so dirty because it was very dirty. And do you remember, like I went and asked the lady, she would clean my shoes, which for me is a hard thing to ask, but that was how she earned her living. What we learned, what we learned about China in that trip, which was back in 2003. I think something like that, 2004. So a long time everyone has a job or wants a job. So she was quite happy to clean my shoes. And I gave her double the amount of money.

2 (26m 59s):
I think it was liquid slight $2 50 or something. And she chased me down in the market to give me back. She would not accept that tip, which I thought was beautiful. I think we just need to be respectful of people. And yeah, we have, I know we live in a country. That's very, it is, we are expensive compared to a lot of countries, but you're lucky say we are quite, we are, isn't it. I can't remember the step, but isn't it like, we're like if you've got, you know, Baird and a place to sleep and a roof over your head food in your tummy, you're better off than, you know, 80% or whatever, or even higher, Steve's gone higher a long way up the ladder. Yeah. You know what I mean? So yeah. Do we have to take advantage of people

0 (27m 42s):
Can discuss the endless pursuit of more in our society. And I, I struggle with, I've worked for a lot of very wealthy people in commercial real estate. And how much do you need me? You don't like, how much do you need? Like, I mean, one of the things that got me out of commercial real estate in the end was I was working for a very wealthy man. And this is in, in Queensland and he was arguing and pushing me back and pushing me back against these tenant who about a hundred bucks a month. And it was a fair deal already. Like it really was. And it was just a bit more like, where does it end? And how much do you need, buddy?

2 (28m 21s):
Why, why are there so many, why is the minimalist movement? So, you know, important now and people, you know, get rid of all your stuff we are. And I'm just as bad as everyone else. And I do clear out a lot of stuff seems to come back somehow. Not quite sure about that, but no, we do. We have more than we want. And I have a friend who is very wealthy and real estate and she hasn't been very well. And I remember once saying to her, you know, she said, I've got to keep working, keep working. Why? Okay. How much lucky, say how much do you really need?

0 (28m 55s):
Yep. And that's, I mean, we've well talk about this consumerism that we've got here. Our whole society pushes us towards more. Oh, you need a bit like when I paid off my Jeep before, just before I paid it off, Macquarie bank rang me and said all was turned up. Great. You need a new J person. Now look, I'm really happy with it. I get to treat it like shit. It always goes, there's never a problem. And should we find, and I go, no, no, no, no. You mean mentioned. You're gonna miss out on in here. We've got this money here for you. And I, and I couldn't believe it didn't want it. And they were almost unpleasant at the end when I wouldn't take another line and you get that with clothes, you get that with, you know, your food, you know, some other bits and pieces on that.

0 (29m 36s):
And I'm, and I'm still in the system. Same as you, I'm still consuming. Don't worry. But Pepsi by the look of Pepsi today. Yes. Yeah. Do you hear that? Matt can not be buddy. Thanks. Thanks. Okay. I'll give them a raise in a second, but yeah, I just don't know. And like you say, your, you you're as bad as anyone you say I'm not innocent by any stretch, but it's, it's, it's interesting when you've got to look outside over the fence and see what's going on and where it's all coming from. And I think that's part of what we're talking about today. But on that note, I will just have a bit of a chat about my sponsors who are, do love, even though they haven't given me a B today. And I'm struggling now, okay. Catchment, the Catherine brewing company they're wasting, or they're a great little brewery or working out of their own net and they have got some cool, cool tastes going on there.

0 (30m 23s):
I've gotten here. I'm too looking at two on the website. Cause they're not here. Why not blogger? Which is my favorite personally. And Powell slate to there's many others as well, but you just look, they're a good little company they're working really hard and they do a good brewery. So instead of just buying your normal, if you feel like having a night out and you only taking a six pack or whatever, go look into the catchment brewing company, have a trial of some of the really good Indian art power right near RPI is really good too. Just off the top of my head. I can remember that as well. So look, go check them out, have a walk in and have a beer, but also just pick them up at Dan Murphy's they're there. So take them instead of, you know, your standards for change anyway,

2 (31m 2s):
Small businesses as well. And that's one of the other things that you can do in the slave slavery, you know, great, thanks. But no, it is, it is because, you know, there's so many small businesses and here on the peninsula, we've got some great creative people doing stuff, so support them. And then you can actually get to know who you're working with and you can say, well, where are you sourcing your cotton food, the dress, you know, have you looked at, you know, you get that develop that relationship

0 (31m 35s):
Fond interesting is I, even when I was doing the leasing for a living was I really liked to people that created themselves or used local goods. They're more expensive without debt, but they just are, our wages are higher. Our costs are higher and, but our quality is higher as well. And that's part of it. And to rocket into a department store and buying a full buck shirt, or why don't you spend 50 or 60 on one and have it for 10 years and run with that. But more importantly, go buy some local projects. Don't just go, well, it's gotta be from here most times. It's, it's interesting for me, how often you go to the big supermarkets and it's all important.

0 (32m 18s):
The seafood does my Haiti <inaudible> hang on. We're Morton Bay here. We're a Morton Bay and all, always see feeds coming in from Asia. Yeah.

2 (32m 28s):
Yeah. Well be careful of the Thai seafood because there is a lot of slavery in the Thai fishing industry. And if I want to pick up something, a Woolworths and the vice set's from Thailand, I won't buy it. Well, it's just making that choice.

0 (32m 43s):
Cause one of the things we try and talk about a no humble is what can we do? I can snuggle bitch and moan and, and throw rocks. I mean, some things are bigger than us and I get that entirely, but what can we do to assist and to change this world of, you know, modern slavery.

2 (32m 58s):
I think first of all, is to accept and learn about it as much as you can, that it does exist. There's over 40 million slaves in the world today.

0 (33m 12s):
Mm

2 (33m 13s):
Yep. Yeah. 40.3 71% of them are women or female. Yeah. The 29% are male and one in four children are slaves. And that can be like we mentioned earlier then for children of that, of that 40 million, because they can be perhaps in bonded slavery, like they might be in India working in, or their family's been indebted a little bit. Like you talked about earlier, the debt keeps going on and on it's past the it's never. Yeah. And, and you know, they're not being schooled because you know, education is a very important thing because if you know what your rights are and you know, you know, you're educated, then you're in a position that you can actually make some differences as well.

2 (34m 1s):
But if you just keep people in their little box and things, they don't know that, you know, you don't know what you don't know exactly. And it can be dangerous. And just, and this is who they're saying are most at risk of women, children, as we've mentioned, migrants, refugees, and asylum seekers and people with in occupations like low visibility or legal protection. Now you probably have seen stumping in the news, you know, over the years about like fruit pickers and things. I'm not saying everyone who has a farm and employees, people are wrong. I'm not saying that at all, but it's sort of an occupation that's, you know, not visible to us, you know, as most of us are city dwellers, whatever, but it's occupations like that, that there can or could be a form of exploitation or slavery involved.

2 (34m 55s):
So it's places like that. Yeah.

0 (34m 57s):
It's the week, isn't it? It's the, it's the weekend and the people that don't have the context and, you know, the people looking after them that get used up in the world and you can, I guess you can either accept it and just keep rolling and, you know, enjoy the fact that you've got more than the next guy that you can do something about it. And that's the important, and you've chosen to do something about it, which I think, yeah.

2 (35m 16s):
And, and there are some amazing people that in this country that do do something about it or try to, it's not an easy, it's not an easy problem to fix in the world. No country is free from modern slavery, every country in the world. And they're saying that modern day, slavery, most prevalent in Africa, Asia and Pacific, but it does happen here in Australia too, which, you know, you might think, Oh really? Cause if you're like we, where we live in a townhouse now, so we get to see our neighbors more. But when we used to, we used to live at castle dine in a house with a big fence and you come home from work and the doors would be shut and you'd, you know, not see what you don't see what goes on in the world.

2 (36m 2s):
Yeah. It was sometimes that might be a blessing for both, for both parties, but now you don't know what's what's going on. So in Australia they're estimating that over 1,900 people are victims of modern slavery in our country.

0 (36m 15s):
Yeah. I mean, that's still a lot larger number of them. Like, it doesn't seem like a lot as far as the millions that live in Australia, but that's why too many, I mean, I, what do we do about it?

2 (36m 28s):
Well, as I say, get educated on the issue of slavery a little bit, like what we've talked about today to get educated. Yeah. Just, just to know a little bit, you don't have to, you know, just Google modern slavery and some of the issues, what I would, first of all, tell you, Brian, I'm not trying to try to touch your questions, but I'll tell you about this. I'll buy you a beer later. That's sorted it out. So what are the signs of modern slavery was when you look, as we said that loss of freedom. So you can, you know, like if you go to your nail bar or wherever there's signs that you can observe, right. You can say, Oh, well, you know, that person, you know, seems to be under the thumb will or whatever.

2 (37m 13s):
I mean, you're just things that your visual art, you could see visually other things is like, they may live in the workplace, you know, and you know, there's no movement. They sort of, you know, live there and work, you know, here in the same space, it could be excessive hours and they're unable to end their employment at any time. I've only selected those four things because they're things that are visible that you might be able to observe. Yeah.

0 (37m 40s):
Well, what does that mean before I came in, just on YouTube having a bit of research. And it was those things, like if you saw someone that was certainly being treated differently than a lot of the other stuff and that they, they were very submissive. That was one part of it. If they couldn't make eye contact with you and you know, as they were serving you or doing whatever, and if you provided us, if they provided a service and someone else would come and collect the funds off, you collect the money off you. If that's, it's a situ putting, not a shop situation, but you know, a service situation as such and all those things would stand out as being a little unusual. Some people may look at those as a cultural thing.

2 (38m 19s):
The eye contact could be a cultural.

0 (38m 21s):
Yeah. But I mean, if it, if it continues to happen, well, I guess there's no harm. And so

2 (38m 26s):
What I've done, what I do when I used to get my nails done, and I'd go to say one of the Asian salons that are around all our shopping centers these days, I'd always strike up a conversation with, with the person, you know, if we could speak English, which sometimes doesn't happen, but always asked just innocent questions like, Oh, you know, where do you live? You know, what do you do? You know, just, just ask those questions. You know, you can just get a bit of a feel. And, but the one thing that I would warn everyone against, if you do suspect someone might be enslaved and you're seeing them in real life, don't be Cagney and Lacey or whoever other, you know, the cops ran into, well, you can be a detective, but you pass it onto the people who know what they're doing.

2 (39m 13s):
And I've got, because as we mentioned earlier, that could even make the situation. If, you know, if say you were, you're a slave and we're chatting, you're doing my, you're doing my fingernails, Ryan. Thank you. They look beautiful. Very good. Yeah. It's not my color, but thank you. Could you try and keep them just on the nails? Right. But you know, if you're doing that and I'm sort of sensing things aren't right. And now if I were to say, you know, Oh, get your boss and say, you know, what are you doing that could cause more harm and more damage to that person. So can I get, can I give a couple of phone numbers? There is an organization, a brilliant organization in Australia called anti-slavery Australia.

2 (39m 56s):
They're located at the university of Sydney and they talk a lot about what is labor exploitation? What is forced labor there? The definitions are, do your head in, but basically if you've got a problem and you think here I go, coughing again, sorry if you've got any suspicions, ring them and then they'll look into it and, or it'll be passed onto the federal.

0 (40m 22s):
Yeah. So the appropriate authorities will hear that.

2 (40m 26s):
Sorry. So sorry.

0 (40m 28s):
Okay. So dine approached directly tell someone that you've got some concerns through what happens there, go the right way about it for stylists. Cause you don't want to cause fault.

2 (40m 38s):
The only thing they recommend that if, if there's a child involved or the someone's in, you know, like someone's being beaten or in immediate danger ring, triple zero.

0 (40m 49s):
Yeah. I mean, if someone ran out into the street to me and said, help me, help me. Well, I'm going to open, send them back in and go and look, you we'll come back later.

2 (40m 58s):
It's going to ring this number for now,

0 (40m 60s):
Give us a call now look, thank you for it. And if it's okay with you, if you could send me the links to those websites, I'll have the, I'll put them up on the opinions page. Have you checked there? One thing you mentioned earlier was that was a very different part of modern day. Slavery was forced marriages. Tell me about that

2 (41m 19s):
Again. I am not an expert on this, in this area, but it's under the umbrella of modern slavery. You've got forced labor and that could be state imposed force, labor exploitation, or the sexual side and forced marriage. And that's when a person gets married without freely and fully consenting because of coercion, threat or deception, because they're incapable of understanding the nature and the effect of the marriage ceremony because of their age or mental capacity. And apparently it is a huge problem. And here in Australia, we have an organization who I know are doing a lot of work.

2 (42m 1s):
It's a Catholic organization, a craft, I think it is. And they work to help with these people who have been forced into marriage.

0 (42m 12s):
Understanding of that is, and I haven't done any research prior to coming here, but a lot of cultures, other long history of, of are they for arranged marriages, it's called an arranged marriage instead of forced marriages, but that you, your parents would decide, or your grandparents would decide who's marrying who at a young age. And then it just happens that way. Now, although our society doesn't work that way and doesn't agree with that. And we believe in love, although we've got a massive divorce rate, if anyone's noticed sunny or there you go, but is that, should we be criticizing other cultures? Or is it, is this a different thing

2 (42m 49s):
Again, as I said, I will say, I'm not, this is not my area of expertise, but I think it's where people are actually forced. And again, it would be the loss of freedom. So it's not just, I think this is my opinion. I don't think it's just, Oh, come on, Judy, you've got to marry Ryan. I really do. I got all that hair on his face. Do I really have to map? It's, it's more where you're actually you're marrying this. And then the person, whether it could be an old, you know, older than the, you know, it could be a child. We know that children are forced into marriage as well.

2 (43m 29s):
Again, like you said, it could be a cultural thing, but it's, it's more that luck, the loss of freedom and the loss, you know, where you're controlled, where that is the real issue.

0 (43m 42s):
I have seen some arranged marriage situations based entirely on obtaining citizenship, which I, I don't know if that leads down the path that you're exactly talking about, but it's certainly a disturbing area of, of, you know, once you're married, you are legally married and whatever comes from that culturally or not, I'm sure could be, you know, fraught with danger for a lot of people. And if they're doing it for money, well, they need money. And therefore, maybe they, one of those people that are at the bottom of the ladder. And once again, they can use for something that they shouldn't be. But I guess, look, it is, it is a international problem and possibly more international than, than Australia.

0 (44m 24s):
But in saying that we do have a part to play in this. And I, I, I, you know, pretty start wrapping up now, but for me, I will be voting with my wallet as much as I can in buying local and trying to avoid the, you know, the $4 t-shirts and all the other bits and pieces that you can get. I'd I do already look at overseas products, as far as their groceries go. Kobe has been interesting in watching that, just watching our, our country and our exports closed down a lot through no fault of our own, just the way it is, that has been part of it, but in now, and what you're saying, I will be operating in that manner, but am I going to hurt these people by doing that?

0 (45m 4s):
If a lot of us did, do I make it worse?

2 (45m 9s):
It can. It can because it's a holistic problem. And that's why this, and I was saying started saying earlier about the different, you know, the people who actually, you know, prevent it happening in the first place, those who rescue victims, et cetera, if it is and provide aftercare to the survivors, not victims, the survivors of slavery. So if it's actually dealt with in a holistic way through all those points, no, it won't hurt them. But sometimes I think, see I've very much believe in ethical consumerism. I very much believe that the law of supply and demand that if we stop bowing, you know, this product here because you know, it's questionable or, you know, we find out that maybe, you know, children might've been picking the cotton, whatever, and apparently there are websites and I'll have a look and send some through to you as well, where people can look at that and then make their own decision.

2 (46m 9s):
But I think if we keep on buying the $2 t-shirt or the $4 t-shirt, if we keep doing that, we're not doing anything to help. And we need to ask our, I know if someone there is, again, I'll put this up for you for your listeners, Ryan, it's a book, it's the fashion report. And I know of, I've been told of one woman that every week she'll pick a company out of that fashion report that may not have the best, you know, score as far as human rights and slavery. And she rings up the managing director's office and says, Oh, I used to like buying things from you, but what are you actually doing?

2 (46m 50s):
You know, you've got a bit of a low report card here. So what are you actually doing? And I think it's about us as consumers. Being able to ask that question and say, well, you know, if you want us to keep buying your Pepsi Cola or whatever it is, well, you know, show me that there's no slavery in that supply chain, show me that it's it's fair trade. And if they can't well, you know, go to cocoa or whatever, you know, if they, if they're a good company, you know what I mean? Yeah,

0 (47m 17s):
Absolutely. You make the change and that's, that's one way I think that we can make even a small impact because they're not enough. If you do it, it makes a difference on it, but it is something different we need to think differently. And if nothing, if anyone is listening to this and change their mind or figured out that it is an ongoing problem, they can do something about it. Well, you've partly done your job, buddy.

2 (47m 38s):
So thank you. Well, me, me and many, many others, but like you say, with the one person, I don't know if this who said this quote, but it's like, if you always think, you know, it's one person going to make a difference. We're just remember how annoying one mosquito is when you're trying to go to sleep. Yeah. I don't know that was probably Gandy or somewhere, but it was a really cool quote.

0 (48m 2s):
Might've been here mostly. And maybe I'm a mosquito dude. Thank you for the chat. If you have anything else you like.

2 (48m 8s):
No, thank you. Thank you so much for the opportunity.

0 (48m 11s):
Thank you very much. I'm sorry. You had that little cough today. Thanks again for having a listen. I really do appreciate it. Thanks for the catchment brewing company once again, and we will catch up with you next time on no humble opinions.

1 (48m 28s):
<inaudible>.