Ep 42: My husband is now my wife.

Kate married Martin.... who later transitioned to the transgender woman Martina.
Their journey has had difficult times but at it's heart it is something very simple..... a love story.
We discuss the good, the bad and everything in between.

#transgender #wife #trans #love #nohumbleopinions #straighttalk #sparkplugradio #rynosway #unpopularopinion  #unpopularopinions #podcast #podcastlife #podcastrecommendations #podcastseries #politicallyincorrect #politicalcorrectness

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Transcript

1 (6s):
Hey there. Ryno here from the podcast. No humble opinions where we talk to interesting people about interesting things and today we're going to be discussing a love story.

0 (17s):
<inaudible>

2 (29s):
Marty, how you doing? Good. Thanks. Good, good, good. What's going on and happy doing red cliff today. Yes. Nice weather.

1 (36s):
Well, it was nice weather here even yesterday when it was pouring, it was disgusting. But anyway, I mean, I've got a motorbike and a convertible. Whatever, if you like Ryan, you can go

2 (45s):
For it up until the last thing I had convertible.

0 (49s):
We'll talk about that. Now.

1 (52s):
I have known you guys for a little while, especially Kate. And this story is basically that you, Kate, you married a man that became your wife. I want to hear about that. I think that's a fascinating story that we're gonna have a chat about so quickly. When did you guys meet up? Roughly is okay.

2 (1m 14s):
Yeah. So Marty had just, Martin was married and had just found out that. So I say him or he, when Marty was a heat and I say shaman, she was, yeah.

1 (1m 26s):
You identify as female nowadays. Yes, yes.

2 (1m 29s):
Yep. So Marty was married to a woman and found out that she was having relations with her boss. And, and so it was going through a messy divorce and I was just on the brink of marrying somebody else. And I found out that they were cheating on me. So cheating brought you two together. So we both went on to match.com looking for, well, my mum put me on there, but yes. And then we met on match.com going mum. And my mum actually, cause I obviously found out the news about this other Dick cheating on me. And she was like right time to get back on the horse. And she created a match.com profile for me. And I was like, whatever.

2 (2m 10s):
And then she had a boyfriend who was big into astrology and he said, no, you need to be with a man who's born on this date. And there was a very specific date. So my mum got a match.com and she ran this report and 10 blokes names popped up. And actually they were looking for someone born on the 16th of October. And Marty came up, the top has been born on the 17th of October. And she was like, right, you've got to go on a date with this guy. And I was like, whatever. And then she went and she started like messaging, Marty. And I was like, no, no, I'm not ready. I'm not ready. But of course Marty thought it was genuine. So then we started a conversation and did you start flirting with Kate to mum? And then there's another story altogether, mumble, Godzilla that's related.

2 (2m 53s):
And, and then I thought, Oh, well I haven't been on a date in a long time. So I'll just go on a practice date. So off I went on a practice date with Marty, I had all my friends lined up to call me at seven o'clock in case it was going right. I had my get out clause. Anyway, we met up in, yeah, we just got on really well. And as it turned out, Marty is actually one on the 16th of October.

1 (3m 16s):
That's the weirdest part of this whole story

2 (3m 19s):
Just before the 16th, before the 17th. And because her parents didn't want her to be one day old on the day that she was born, they actually changed the date of birth. And as it turns out, we don't fight. We get on really well. We've had like a really great relationship. So whatever my mom's boyfriend was doing with looking for that, someone born on that date was true.

1 (3m 37s):
Do you reckon it's the most important pancake? I don't reckon it is. And you can have your astrology

2 (3m 42s):
Freaked out about that because I thought it was hogwash, but actually it's true. We don't. We do get on really well.

3 (3m 47s):
It is true. Yeah. We don't really argue at all. And I think that was evident when we both hooked up with each other. It was only literally a couple of months before we actually really moved in and that's through circumstance that Kate was sending her house at the time. And I said, well, look know, just move in if it works at work. So it doesn't, it doesn't get, you know, w we're both old and we're both, you know, we've got skeletons in our closets and that's from divorces and things. So that's what I've got. One, two. Yeah, it could be the third. So yeah, I think really we're both very strong characters and the whole mix, just, we act as each other's deterrent, we just don't bother arguing and it just worked.

3 (4m 32s):
So yeah, just trying to strengthen. Yeah.

1 (4m 35s):
Now look, and that's good. And I feel that in you guys as well, look, it's always pretty easy going when you're around each other and I've enjoyed your company, so, but okay. Matty, you were a guy back then and that was 2006, you said? Yep. Okay. So had you been having feelings in your life that you felt not comfortable as a man for quite some time? Would that be wrong?

3 (4m 59s):
So I knew at the age of around about six years old, that something was different with me. And I didn't really know what it was so much. I remember back in those days where I'm the youngest of the family and I'm older brother, older sister, and we were doing dress ups one day. My sister dressed me up and address. And that's, I think when the penny drops, we say, and I kind of realized that, yeah, maybe this is kind of right, but too young to know anything about it. And there was no awareness back then, and we're talking 1976. Yep. So I went through all my life, not knowing any different until I was about 15, 16 years old.

3 (5m 39s):
When I saw the front page of a newspaper one day where this man had transitioned into this female and was actually a model. Yeah. So I thought, okay, well, you know, clearly it's possible, but I was I'm six foot tall. I was built like a brick proverbial house. You're not, no, I wasn't tiny at the time I was a rugby player and I just thought, okay, well I've missed my slots. And that's that. And really from that point on, through, you know, I carried on playing rugby or carried on joining the army. The British army did some colorful things in the army, came out the army carried on playing rugby. I even got selected to play for England, but that never came around.

3 (6m 21s):
Cause it dislocated my knee and yeah, through all this done, all the manly things, panel beating and all sorts of, I just kind of just, it was there in the background, always niggling away at me, but I just kind of step up and let them said that never acted on it. And just pretend that I was a huge guy and I was 110 solid muscle, 110 Kia. That was, and I'm six foot tall. So I don't think, well, there's no chance of this happening. So that was that now. Okay. So you've waited the caretaker, the baby that you've been to a couple of marriages before this one. Yeah. Okay. Did, were they impacted by you feeling uncomfortable or was it just you saying that, that, so I think I'd put the whole thing to bed and yeah, I just, yeah, I've always been attracted to women, so it's natural to have a relationship with a woman.

3 (7m 17s):
So there's no issues there. And that was just a natural way. Things went. It wasn't a case of anything denial or just that's how things were, did your ex partners know that you felt this way? No. Yep. Okay. You kept that all to yourself. Yeah. So you came along and met the lovely Kate after flirting with the mum, which is wheat. That was weird on mom's part, not yours. Sorry. I didn't realize it was <inaudible>. I hope you have a loving relationship. Hindsight's a wonderful talk. I don't even talk to my mum. Oh, nice. Okay. So, okay. You've met this lovely guy that you obviously attracted to and, and feeling good about and so on and so forth.

3 (8m 1s):
What happened then?

2 (8m 3s):
Obviously we started living together and I don't know, just Marty was always different from what other blokes I dated. I will step in and say that, you know, I am bisexual. And so I've had relationships with women and with men in the lead up to before my relation with Marty. Yeah. And I just, I could just tell that, you know, Marty was just a gentler soul. She wasn't, well, he wasn't as manly and as blokey and, you know, do a lot of things that were typically female oriented. And I, for example, we were talking wedding dresses one day and he was really able to pick out the perfect wedding dress with the perfect body shape, all that stuff that girls do, you know, likes don't typically do that sort of stuff.

2 (8m 44s):
So it made me sort of think, Hmm, something's not quite right here. And there were a few other personal things that gave me clues. And then one day I thought, right, this is it. I'm going to, I'm going to get it out of him. So I came home with this big ball gown in his size and I had makeup drinking wine, and I was like, right, let's get you dressed. And I think Maya was like, Oh, okay. But I could just tell, like he was loving it, just loving for the makeup and loving, wearing the dress and just feeling, and it just sort of gave me a clue like this, person's not happy in his body as a man.

1 (9m 22s):
So you, so you approached that feeling prior to Marty approaching that feeling with you. Yeah. That's pretty freaking cool.

2 (9m 30s):
Yeah. I could just tell, I just, it was just, there was so much feminine stuff about Mark tin that I just knew that there was something not right there. So I fostered it if you like or nurtured it and, and never made Marty feel uncomfortable about wanting to explore that side of things and supported it. And I would go and buy the clothes for Marty, or I would, you know, have those conversations about what you should wear and all those sort of things. So,

1 (9m 56s):
Yeah. So, I mean, you don't get much more supportive than that. I don't suppose. How did that make you feel when 11 month? Sorry for saying the wrong thing on <inaudible>

3 (10m 13s):
No, no, there's no pets taking this look. It was, it was an odd situation. Something I'd never, never thought would ever going to happen. And so really I kind of didn't really know what to, what to think at the time or what to feel so quite taken aback. Yeah, I guess so. Yeah. It was obviously it was nice to have a bit of release and, but at the time there was no way. I mean, Katie even said to me, and you know how fast it's going to go and say, Oh yeah, I'm not gonna change anything. Yeah. I hadn't. There was no plans for that,

2 (10m 48s):
But I think that's because you, Marty is the person that doesn't want to upset the applecart. You know, Elijah will put herself out before she put anybody else out. So, and I could just tell in the back of her mind, Oh, I'm not changing gender because that would just be too hard for everybody else. Yeah. And that was how she went about life for a long time. And it caused us a bit of problems because I was having to lead this double life. You know, where out in the world Martin was a man and yet at home she lived as a woman.

3 (11m 20s):
Yeah. Well I've a good couple of years. Yeah. And again, it was, that was putting a strain on things as well, because, you know, are you, aren't you, what are you going to do? Where's this going to go at that time as well,

2 (11m 33s):
Children and Marty was like, well, I can't be doing this. We've got children. And I was like, well, why not? What does, if you just be your authentic self and it was a struggle for him, it took her,

3 (11m 44s):
I think it was a struggle where that I didn't realize the opportunity that was before me because no one goes through those sort of feelings in life and actually has someone at the end who's willing to support you. It's it's rare. It's got a question for you. Would you have come out and become Maddie if it wasn't for Kay? No. Yeah. The teacher is a unit. Yeah. Like, I mean, I imagine you feel more comfortable than you've ever felt me on yourself. Yeah. I mean, the way I explained to everyone is that if you can imagine the jigsaw puzzle on the table completed, but one piece missing, that's what it was for me. So now that last piece is in there. It feels complete. It just feels I'm at peace with myself to a larger extent than what it was before.

3 (12m 28s):
For sure.

2 (12m 29s):
Knowing Martin versus Marty, there's a world of difference. Yes, absolutely. Marty is a confident, powerful, strong, successful woman, lots of courage. You know, she's made a huge difference in the transgender world. You know, she's a advocate and, but Martin was a, a shy and assuming shrinking violet of a man, you know what I mean, with just very unsuccessful in life, you know, wasn't, you just spoke up for yourself. You were much weaker character because feeling uncomfortable in his body or feeling like it wasn't the right. You know, it wasn't just like, it just felt like as soon as you change your agenda, you just came out of your, so it just became the proper mighty meant to beans, always smiling.

2 (13m 20s):
And you know, Marty as a man hated his skin and like was always constantly picking and, you know, cause just hated the skin. Yeah. And that looks to have like, you know, sores on your body, you'd be picking on the back of your legs and that'll stop the minute she became Marty. You know what I mean? So

3 (13m 40s):
Is it a little bit diverse from that? But there was an interesting thing that used to happen to me when I was younger and growing up, I used to have a really weird dream and people say dreams mean something and it possibly it did. It was kind of like a King Kong moment where the house I grew up in, it always ended in that house, but was been chased through the streets and turned around. It's always King Kong coming after me and I get home, I'll be in, stood in the kitchen. And then I see the reflection in the window and it's me. So into this yellow dress, fiscally sewn around the neck and around the arms and yeah, kind of looking at us, I think what the hell is going on here. And then you'll see King Kong fan comes through the door and lifts you up. And there was just bizarre.

3 (14m 20s):
I, it is, it sounds a very bizarre dream, but that's what used to happen, but I don't get that anymore. Yeah. It's gone. So maybe your, your subliminal was trying to do is maybe who knows. Yeah. So it's something in the background was so yeah. So I looked, I didn't know any of that. So that takes on, so you guys are together as Martin and Kate, you are living a life at home. That's not on the exterior. Now. You happy to tell your profession now make sure

1 (14m 52s):
You're cool. My Queensland police officer. Yeah. Now you joined as Martin, did you or I joined as Marty. Oh, that's cool. Or I don't want to talk about that in a second as well. I didn't know that. So thank you. All right. We'll get into that. It's it's, you're sitting with Martin K you know, you're married as Matt and K-12

3 (15m 9s):
Yeah. Wedding photos and they look lovely, but it's not nobody on big strapping blokey bloke in the wedding photos. Yeah.

1 (15m 19s):
And you guys were living as two women at home at that point on and off. Yes. Yes. Okay. So if you've done the wedding and all that sort of stuff and your husband and wife, and obviously get you, what, so what happens, where does it go for now? Cause you guys, you two, obviously know the truth about where you're at and you now, well, before you answer that part, your concerns, what you did and it was, you said earlier it was about other people what they were going to think. And, and that's a big deal. Like I find I spoke to Anton, a mate of mine in the second episode of a deep and he's, family's basically abandoning and that's a very difficult for him to, to come to terms with his dad's quite good with him, but no one else.

1 (16m 2s):
And, and I find that pretty sad. What was your circumstances?

3 (16m 8s):
I mean, I know Anton's situation as well. We've talked about that before, but for me it was, I had to go through a whole process and myself of coming to terms with losing everyone before I could tell people that I'm coming out. So just preparing yourself for that outcome. Yeah. Yeah. So it was a lot of soul searching. I think it took about six months. It's about six months it took and that's from started growing my hair and the hormones. And it's known the inevitable is coming where people are going to start noticing I was eating a Freemason at the time as well. Well, pretty much. Yeah. I was a master Mason.

3 (16m 48s):
So there's a lot to contend with of where this is going and who I'm going to let down and so on. And eventually I put it to bed. I made peace for myself that I was losing everyone, not Kate because Kate had she'd give me her support, but I was going to do as everyone else around me, quite prepared for that. So I was prepared if you'd like, I'd done a mourning period in myself. And then I, the first person I spoke to her, she had some dear friends about us and I phoned her up and she was on her way to work. And I said, Hey, Jackie, just want you to know before you start reading it everywhere. This is what it is you said, Oh, okay. And that was it. I started rolling out, tending everyone else.

3 (17m 30s):
And it was a massive weight off my shoulders because I would say 95% of people stayed behind and got involved. And many people just didn't give a shit. Nice. Just a few. I mean, just like, Oh yeah. Okay. Yeah, there was, there was quite a lot that were really surprised by. I

2 (17m 50s):
Was surprised was I had a lot of fear around that thinking I have to say goodbye to all these people. I care about this thing and leave us. And we did lose Sam along the way. Absolutely. But I was surprised at how many stood by us and it didn't bother them and they still had us in their lives and we still had those connections.

4 (18m 7s):
Yeah. I mean, there's a fair few who didn't matter an eyelid, there's a couple of sets. Oh, come on. We kind of guessed it. We wanted to say something

2 (18m 19s):
Like, Oh, this is going to be hard, but we'll get over it. Yeah.

4 (18m 22s):
And others who had lots of questions to ask, so it was a mixture, but it was a pleasant next year.

2 (18m 27s):
Yeah. It was a great relief for me because I, I really struggled with this jewel, the secret life of, I felt like I wasn't being true. I was lying. Everyone thought that Marty was Martin and at home, wasn't an, I, I was just glad it was all over. And I could just be real messy. It was so messy. And it caused me a lot of grief. I had to go for counseling to help me because it was Marty's story to tell. I couldn't tell people, you know, and although I'm intrinsically entwined in the story and it was also my story to tell I could, and it was, so

4 (18m 58s):
It was, it was hot.

2 (19m 1s):
I respect the fact that she had to do when she was ready, but it meant that I was living this lie or living this double life for two or three years. And that was hard.

1 (19m 10s):
Yeah. How long ago was this now? You said you decided to start telling people

4 (19m 16s):
2012. It's when officially,

2 (19m 18s):
But it was about 2000 level. You started living as a woman at home and then it was 2012. 13. Yeah.

4 (19m 24s):
That's right. Yeah. I think by the time everything was done and dusted, it was yeah. The whole world knew by about sort of mid 2013.

1 (19m 33s):
Yeah. Okay. So kind, hell no, you're bisexual as you've said. So that's not part, not an issue for you. What did you come through? Any difficulty self? Cause let's just say this is a love story. And I love the fact that you said we all through that part you were talking about then, and, and you know, it was, you, you couldn't tell Marty's story, but I mean, how was that for you when the news came out and I mean, it was obviously people figure asking Martin question, question, Martin, Maddie, whichever one, it was at that time questions about what's going on, how are you with all that?

2 (20m 5s):
I was just glad to be able to talk to people and just be, I'm the most authentic person I just said as it is. That's just me. I will say things even if you don't want to hear them. And it was really hard for me to spend all those years, not being me, not being authentic. And so when it was all over and I could just talk to people and be honest and just say, this is who we are. It was a great relief. I was just thinking so thankful it was out. I'm so glad that she finally found the courage and that we could just be who we are. It didn't have to be this. I didn't have to be this fake person. She didn't have to be a fake person that we thought other people were expecting us to be.

1 (20m 39s):
Yeah. And so did you lose many of your close friends?

2 (20m 43s):
We've got a couple here and there. Marty had a friend that she had for 30 years or so have been best man at two at our wedding and your previous wedding. And yeah, he just couldn't get his head round. And as soon as, as soon as the trouble is, he's a bit of a chauvinist and he does treat men and women differently and had spent 30 years treating Marty as a man and then suddenly found out that she was female. And then just the level of respect just dropped straight off because,

3 (21m 12s):
And it's, it's weird. I mean, one day we sat at the table and he'd come sat in the end and he just turned around to me and said, I have to treat differently now. And that was it. That's, there's a fair bit about him. Doesn't it? So we haven't spoken since,

1 (21m 24s):
You know, you probably haven't lost much. And I'll just say that God, it's very easy for me to say, I suppose. Sorry, but he's

2 (21m 29s):
Been your best man and all this other stuff, but yeah,

3 (21m 32s):
Yeah, yeah. Took me by surprise. I thought he would have been able to sort of stay behind. So be it. And then you have the rest of the family bump took it hard, but she came around quite quickly and even I'm still in England, she's doing good. So mum is 77, 78.

2 (21m 55s):
The only reason why she took it hard was because she felt a huge guilt at, she said to me, one day, that's my son. That's my child. How is it that he has hated his own body for 42 years? And I never knew, you know, she was, she was so disappointed in herself that she hadn't been there to support you through that. That was what was hard for her, not the fact that you're a woman now. That's not, doesn't bother her here.

3 (22m 20s):
I'll just hit it. Well, simple as that,

2 (22m 23s):
She really struggled to reconcile that in her head going, no, this is my son. This is my child. I should have known this. Yeah.

3 (22m 28s):
Yeah. Because she's, she's all good now. And yeah, we make jokes of it and everything and she's fully on board and you know, she put, accepts everything. She's, she's quite happy. So that was good.

1 (22m 38s):
That's guilt, fairly pointless about that sort of stuff. Is that the case when it eats, as long as you build something on Facebook the other day saying that I'm the happiest I've ever beaten at 47 and I'm thinking, no, I don't feel it. It honestly, I was sitting there for a couple of weeks thinking, is this for you? Cause I'm not sure how. And I just was, and I threw it out there and it was because, you know, I just, it doesn't matter when it happens as long as it does. I think the, so, you know, I mean, and mum give you, let yourself go. So, but I mean any other, I mean, obviously it's a big deal.

3 (23m 12s):
There's the family, we're a write off at the time. So my mother's sister, auntie Brenda she's she's come good. She's all right, brother. Hardly ever hear from him.

1 (23m 25s):
Was that the same prior too? Or was it

2 (23m 28s):
Well, the thing is that when you were younger, your brother used to tease Martin and go, Oh my Tina and Latina. And he's probably thinking <inaudible> did I create that?

3 (23m 41s):
Possibly shouldn't there's a few other reasons, but we don't really speak too much and it's look it's normal. Yeah. And my sister hardly haven't heard when she found out too, it's a case of, she said, Oh, don't, don't worry. I'll be okay. Okay. So it's clearly about using since isn't it wonderful. My father, we, he seemed to be okay for the first year, then Christmas day, 2014 or 2013, we're all having a Skype session. We're over here in Australia and family back in UK and dad just leans into the frame and says, there's a problem in our family.

3 (24m 21s):
And it's you. And we've never spoken since that's the last words he spoke. That was a bit of pain, but yeah, that's his loss, not mine. Like I said to you at the beginning, I I'd gone through that mourning period where I thought, okay, if you don't stay behind us, it's your loss catching up with you? One of the, one of the biggest surprises was my cousin, Paul he's, I he'd be about 57, 58. Now he's a, he's a big guy. He's actually a Colonel in the Royal Marines. And this guy has been through everything. He joined the Royal Marines when he was 16. Three-quarters so straight from school, straight in.

3 (25m 2s):
And he's gone through every seat perceivable rank to get where he is now. And imagine he'd met a few transgender people along the way. Yeah. Maybe that maybe not, but yeah, he's been in some special services and all sorts of things and he's, he's done some ugly stuff and he can't cope with it can't deal. He can't deal with it. And that really took me by surprise because this guy is, I mean, he's six foot four, he's a huge machine. One of the nicest guys you'd come across and you just can't get his head round it.

1 (25m 33s):
So then he doesn't speak to than that.

3 (25m 35s):
He can't deal with it. So that was a shame. So that whole side of the family have gone that's life. It's a, it was a tough one.

1 (25m 45s):
No, I'm sorry about that. And that's the, that's the thing. I see a lot with people who are either coming out as gay or trans or whatever it might be on that, that the impact is quite often from the outside. And I don't walk generally, I suppose, from the outside. And I personally don't get it. I mean, it just doesn't really bother me. You can do an emptying, the files, whatever you like, cause I'm not gonna be that bothers me. And you saw this in one of your, in a situation as you can view with, I called someone in that, the wrong term and they lost it shit about how disrespectful I was. Well, firstly, how am I meant to know like, sorry, this person just looked like a, a girl, a young lady. And I referred to her as a young lady and it was it cornered.

1 (26m 25s):
I don't think that takes us anywhere. I don't think that makes anything better. I certainly didn't anything.

3 (26m 30s):
I think sadly, and this, this current state, the community needs to take a chill pill. Definitely because I fully understand when people say there's somewhere in between. I totally get that. And I get that. I feel that, but there has to be, there has to be a place where we all meet in the middle. We cannot just carry on demanding, demanding quality and demanding this and demanding this right. And demanding that. And so on, we need to meet in the middle. People will make mistakes. It's how we learn. We learn from those mistakes and move forward. And I agree with the pronouns. I find it personally very difficult as well. And I just try and avoid the whole conversation if I can, because I can't get my head around it.

3 (27m 11s):
Yeah.

1 (27m 11s):
Yeah. And well, I'll think, okay, you guys have got a wonderful marriage and it's, it's what he, but I think marriage is compromise and you have to be able to accept the other person's frailties and you know, things that get on your nerves and losses because any two people living together all the time are going to occasionally get cheese, really do that. And I think we need to do that in society as well. Like smashing your hands on the table and saying, no, I'm right. And you're wrong. Well, okay. That can get you so far, but you have to be able to understand somebody's point of view and especially just not get upset if there's no harm meant. Absolutely. I think that's the biggest thing.

2 (27m 50s):
Yeah, there is. Yeah. And you know, the gender construct of society is there's he's in there. She's brought up with that from day dot it's so ingrained in us. So a person who doesn't necessarily encounter trans people or nonbinary people or gay people, they, they would have trouble with those correct pronouns, but it's not their fault. And you, the society at large that creates that. Yeah.

1 (28m 12s):
And I don't think anyone, I think we talked about this on Anton tip side as well, but I don't think it makes anyone, anyone any better for anyone people feeling uncomfortable around you, Marty, for instance, in case they say the wrong pronoun

3 (28m 24s):
And that's why I always maintain the same sort of attitude, where are our front up to people? And I say, Hey, look, you want to ask me something, ask about, Hey, I've got no skeletons in my closet. Yeah. Yeah. And people learn that way and I don't take any offense to it.

1 (28m 39s):
No. And that's cool. I really appreciate it. I guess I'm just gonna break for a second. I've got sponsors that helped me actually do this show. So can we pay for the things we've got to do? So today's is the catchment brewing company cause I'll be here headed West end. Those guys are really making some big efforts at the moment to spread out around the country, different areas, bits and pieces. But they've got a cracking little bar on West end. So if you go that way, please drop in. It's a good feed as part from being a good beer too, but you can find the Katherine brewing company produce in Dan Murphy's and a few other bottle shops here in the place. I really appreciate the help. So thanks to Matt and the crew out there, catching brewing company, check them out and drink, baby. There you go. That's a sensibly.

1 (29m 21s):
Should we say then consume sensibly or just not up to you and let your dead, so, so thanks again. Look. All right. So you have to, you're married and, and you've started talking about where, you know, where your life's going to go now and subsequently your life as well. Okay. So tell me what's going on. What happens? Like what were you working at? What was your job then? What are you doing?

2 (29m 48s):
You were working at the airport when you yes. And you will get bullied. It was just terrible. And I said to Marty, right? That's it stop working there. And we set up a business from home so that you could transition at home in safety really? Was it? Yeah,

4 (30m 3s):
We weren't really aware of safety, safety as such for just, I think it was just, for me, it was hiding away while I got to an acceptable point or what I perceived, I got to a set, an acceptable point that was brave enough to go out in the public, dressed up. Okay.

1 (30m 19s):
So is that right now? That's growing, you're here for one. You got quite long hair and you were taking hormones. Yes. Okay. So, and you wanted all those things to take effect and for you to feel like a woman named on the exterior before you went out? Yeah. Okay. And the bullying police has like such a stupid word cause it's a sound, you know, I always feel like, you know, workplace bullying and things like that. And it feels like, Oh, someone's teasing, but it's not shit. Like, it just makes you laugh.

2 (30m 49s):
So I mean, to put it

4 (30m 51s):
Name names, the company I was working for, but it's one of the larger airlines and it was just doing on the ground crew and behind the scenes for all the, the trolleys and so on. And it was an environment where it was just everyone's pitching against each other for any sort of reason at all. And if you were to throw like transgender into it, it was just going to go haywire. So it wasn't a suitable.

1 (31m 18s):
Is it like a bit of a pecking order? No. Some things like if you've got a bit of weakness that everyone jumps in on it. Yeah.

4 (31m 22s):
There's a lot of casual people working for them. And there's only this year, handful of skeleton crew, if you like of permanent people. Right. And yeah, everyone's striving to become permanent. And if you're not at the top of your game or if you're not sort of speaking to the right people never going to happen. Yeah. So you're clearly in the knotty or different yeah, no chats.

1 (31m 43s):
So you, as soon as you came out, that was, you were suddenly very much in the middle.

4 (31m 48s):
I didn't come out to because I knew that it was

1 (31m 52s):
Just anything or I think

4 (31m 53s):
They probably would have done. And I think, yeah, my mates and I said to you about, but new for 30 years, he was also there. He was a truck driver there. He would take out all the council of food to the planes. So I think he kind of gets something was going on. He'd see the parents, my parents changed me a little bit and I never said anything to him at that point. I tried, yeah. I tried to sort of speak to them a few times, but there was never the opportunity where we could actually sort of be and say, okay, look, I need to care if I need to have a conversation with you. It's just always someone else around it never worked out. Yeah. And then shortly before there was a situation where some of the other staff members started telling lies to him about me, that I was talking behind his back.

4 (32m 38s):
And so on the Tandy. Yeah. It was very <inaudible> and he never approached me about that. So I guess our relationship was doomed from that point down to yeah. So you, so you lived there. Yeah. And you're doing, you're working a business at home. From home. Yeah. Did you ever write, I I asked you from, I I'm not a home person at all. I'd rather be at any time and much to his annoyance. Did you ever start feeling isolated? The two of you, did you ever feel like it was so I was home with my own. Did you start feeling isolated? No, not really. I think it was just because we hadn't been long in Australia anyway.

4 (33m 19s):
I didn't really know anyone too much. Where did you guys move? Did you meet here or? Ah, okay. So, so why the move it's warmer? Yeah. That's where I came from. Jessie straight up. They wanted to bring up, we wanted to have kids bring them up in a nice, you know,

2 (33m 36s):
Sunny environment where you can actually spend time outside. Can't do in England too much.

4 (33m 41s):
Wasn't it before in Germany, before as well. And I had no real allegiance to stay in UK anymore. As far as I'm concerned, England was going down the pan. So I was quite happy to leave anyway. So Katie wants to come. I said, yeah, let's go. Let's do it. Yeah. Okay, cool. So, so you're working from home over there? Yeah. So how long were you doing that for two years. About two years. And yeah, we'd been out a few times ventured out and things and had that feel scary. Very scary. All right. Let me ask you, tell me your first time ever going out as a woman. Was it there in Redcliffe? Where'd you go?

4 (34m 21s):
We came up to the markets once. Wait. Yeah. And I was scared, absolutely crapless. I was hiding behind Kate pitcher. This Kate's five foot, seven I'm six foot. It was me trying to hide behind you and hide and much. I can tell

2 (34m 36s):
You can think whatever you like. All right.

4 (34m 38s):
And so I know it's a case of if I was walking along, if anyone looked at my face, I was trying to look away. Cause I just thought if I don't look, they can't see me. And yeah. So I was petrified and we did that a few times. It got a little bit easier as time went on, you know, things start hair starts to grow and it'd be, it was going and you know, all stuff become a little bit easier. So yeah, it was, it's not a time of my life where I really like to talk about, I, I talk about it, but it's, it's still, to me. I said to Kate last night, before we came down, I said, there's some things that, yeah, I'd rather get it because he was very cringe-worthy to me, when I look back on it in the way you dealt with it or in the way that the world dealt with it,

2 (35m 23s):
I just had to go from this strapping big blokey bloke to the feminine woman that you see now. But the stage in between,

4 (35m 30s):
I love your loss, but you did look

2 (35m 32s):
Like a man in a dress. Absolutely. Yeah. There was that sort of transition period where it

4 (35m 39s):
Just makes me cringe when I look back at that. But it's a point where I had to go through it. Wasn't easy, but it's yeah, we, we got through it. That's the main thing.

1 (35m 47s):
Yeah. I mean, I couldn't imagine it would be like it's when you see, you see people that are cross dressers or drag Queens or those sort of things, and they didn't look particularly feminine, a lot of them. And I guess if you are truly transgender and transitioning, then you don't want to look like a drag queen.

2 (36m 6s):
Yeah. That's there, that's your ultimate goal. The time is being able to go out in society and pass and nobody even knows that that's the Holy grail, isn't it. But in those initial stages, everyone notices you, you don't pass.

4 (36m 18s):
And then yeah. As time went on, we got to the point where I had to make peace with myself that, yeah, I'm never going to fully pass. I can't change the voice. The voice is what it is. And you know, I pick up the phone, talk to someone I hear. Yes sir. No, sir. Yeah. Okay. Let's go with that then. That's fine. Whatever. Yeah, exactly. That. So it keeps the peace and so it is what it is, but I'm at peace with myself now, so

1 (36m 42s):
Yeah. Congratulations. That's cool. We the, or then you, you start to go into another part of your life. I might jump back and forth, but on this too, but yeah. Okay. I was a cop, a cop for 10 years. I joined when I was 18. I learnt so much in that job. It's basing over D my life and the second best thing ever. It was leaving it. I think you're still in. So I repeated that too much, but that's okay. So aside from transgender, yeah. Your partner wants to join the cops. What do you think?

2 (37m 15s):
I was right with it. I was happy. Yeah. Because you know, Marty loved the time that she was in the army or he loved the time that he was in the army. And I could see how much that meant to him and sort of go into the same sort of, you know, structured family. It was what she was needed. It was what she, it was a finding, finding a place that she belonged. And also it gives her a lot of power. You know what I mean? As in she feels like she's doing stuff for the community and she has purpose and she has, you know, she's yeah. I was glad I was very supported.

1 (37m 49s):
Yeah. Cause some people like the cops can be a funny thing and they can be rough on families and partners. I saw a lot of divorces in the cops and I got questioned just before I left. I really left in the end because I had a sick wife after a very difficult pregnancy. She had posted, you know, mental issues and a few other bits and pieces. And my kids were really sick. And I got sat down by my Sergeant said, Mike, you need to decide if you're going to, if you're a detective or dead, because you can't do both and we can't have you enough, what do you do? And that's what drove me at the end sort of thing. I didn't want to be a traffic cover and I didn't want to do, I mean, uniforms. Great. I love the uniform work, but it was just time to go.

1 (38m 31s):
So that was a very difficult part for me. And you said that that's the questions about, I think my ex partly got with me cause I was a boy in blue and she'd had appealed to her. And I think that was one of the worst things for her when I was in it. So it was a bizarre situation. But how long have you been in Stanford?

4 (38m 49s):
Five years. So yeah, well involved with the police five years. So I mean, it will tell me this. When I came out, I went back into the workforce originally for Australia post when the call centers in Brisbane. And that was only for about three months, the contract ended and I went to one, the Lakeway job agencies said, look, I need a job. This is me. They met me. And they said, okay, we'll see what we can do. This was a task Marty. Yeah. And a couple of days later I got a job and it's a, the job agency was, I won't say who they were, but they were giggling down the phone while telling me, they said, we've got the perfect job for you and okay. Right. We'll go on. Then it was working for the prostitution licensing authority.

4 (39m 32s):
Okay.

1 (39m 33s):
Firstly, why is it the perfect job for me and

4 (39m 34s):
Exactly. Yeah. So yeah. I said, look, why not just take it, let's go for it. So that was doing an admin role. What was your role in front of house and really out of my comfort zone. Cause I wasn't an admin girl by any chance, I couldn't type to save my life and everything. I can answer a phone, I could do all the stuff they needed to do with the computer work so that wasn't too bad. So yeah. I found myself there working for the QPS and there, and that was a bizarre situation.

1 (40m 9s):
Okay. How right is bizarre? What bizarre in regards to the prostitution thing of the

4 (40m 15s):
Prostitution? Yes. Yes. Not, not prosecution. I don't know what you said. That's okay. Yeah. So it was look, it was a small team, great bunch. They were good fun. And it got me into a situation where I started to meet other coppers coming into the building occasionally and I think in, yeah. Okay. It sort of sparked off my interest. And then there was a situation where it went a little bit South and I asked for a transfer and I was granted a transplant. I went over to work for the central exhibits, which was in the West end and I was there for a year or so. And that was fantastic. That was the best move I ever did.

4 (40m 56s):
They fully accepted who I was, no issues. That job was great. That's where it was great. The hours were great. All the coppers under the day were coming in all the time from them, serious crime and everything. We're just coming in all the time. They'd just, everyone is accepted me as who I was, had a good joke and laugh. And I just felt like I belonged, you know, it was, it was a turnaround moment for me. And I got involved with the LGBTQ support network for QPS at that point. And they welcomed me with open arms. And again, you know, I saw an opportunity and I asked, I said, well look, you know, I'd like to join. And they said, well, you gotta go through the, you've got to go through all the process. You've got to be accepted.

4 (41m 36s):
And I said, well, yeah, okay then let's, let's do this. And so I applied and yeah, I got three. So I was lucky.

1 (41m 43s):
So firstly, I, I, from my look, I resigned in 2002. So, you know, it's been a fair while for me. But yeah, one thing that I loved about the cops was your feeling of belonging. And you say, which is funny, cause I'd been to boarding school and I did five years of police going to have the exact same feeling ne was it? Cause I had a weed family upbringing and to be a part of that. And when I left, one of the biggest things I had to sort of deal with was not being a part of that and not having a crew and not having, I don't know, just that

4 (42m 15s):
Yeah. The isolated it's like a family kind of thing. I totally get it. Yeah. His name when I was in the army. Yeah. That's a very sort of regimented lifestyle. And again, when I left, there was, you know, there was always something missing as in, you know, Coke is nuts, different jobs and there was just always something missing and it was like, it was that mateship as you call it over here, the camaraderie and mateship and yeah, obviously we got that back with the, with the place, you know, I feel right at home there

1 (42m 47s):
And the other part too, and I didn't experience his spec then because it was as it was a fair while ago, but cope is, can be fairly accepting cause yeah,

4 (42m 56s):
I deal with all sorts. Will you deal with your resort? Yeah, absolutely.

1 (42m 59s):
But you know, spoken before a bit more experience with them being exposed to the gay and lesbian solely for the first time. But I mean, you know, you saw everyone on their best and worst day, so Mattie rocking up as a six foot police woman and he's just fine. Look, I just don't think it's a big deal at all.

4 (43m 16s):
It can. And for the most it hasn't been at all. There's a couple of, you know, offices here and there who can't get their head round it and that's fine. But you know, we deal with that and yeah, it's just one of those things. You're not going to please everyone where I want individuals. So you know, if they can't have it in their life, that's fine. Yeah. No problems.

1 (43m 36s):
So one, okay. Do you have, or what is your role at, did he have a different role GT or trains? Do you know? You just straight cover?

4 (43m 45s):
Not so first response general duties. So I turned up to all the nasty or the stuff good and bad, no matter what. Yep. Yeah. But they do ask you to do additional things. Like you go and you talk at conferences on behalf of the QPS sometimes to the international women in policing. Yeah. Yeah. So there's been a few events around where obviously, you know, I've got a few interesting skills or different thoughts and processes and that. So, you know, they come to me and ask me a lot.

1 (44m 15s):
I think it's pretty cool that they've amenities 20, 21, 2021. Now that I've been tied of Gracie, even it so you can think, but a lot of eyes need to be opened and people need to understand that sort of thing. So, but I think that's the, you answered my question now that it was after like, are you just general duties or

4 (44m 32s):
Do you know? Cause you don't want to tell them to say, Oh, you just need to sit, keep an office in parade around. And we posted a girl or something like that, but that's not the case. So if I have to go

2 (44m 42s):
Inside, I'm there.

4 (44m 44s):
The rest of them it's sometimes it's quite bizarre when I turn up to some jobs and I find like the male officers hiding behind me and yeah, cause I was helping a little bit bigger and I think you're going first. Okay. With all due respect to police woman, a few of them, you get in a tight spot with, and there was a bit of a blow on you. But if you're gonna watch users, which is not the guys with you, which is handy. So there you go. You've probably been still pick a punch there. You still been in a few rocks in your time.

2 (45m 12s):
The funny stories that you've gone to because in general, Marty speaks quite, you know, she doesn't have a loud and aggressive voice, but when she gets into a situation has to use her loud, aggressive voice. She's made a few of her coworkers jumped because I didn't realize how loud she can be when she starts shouting.

4 (45m 29s):
Obviously going to write voice today. Really let's look, I come in debt and I think that's a very cool thing and very cool thing that it's normal. Well, that's stupid, isn't it? It should just be normal, but I'm glad it eats. And it's, that's an advancement from a very old sort of a society. How did the masons take it? Yeah. Well obviously I had to leave that because they're the male only that's part of that tradition and they were fine. They were fine. They aren't, I still speak to a couple of them and yeah, no issues at all, obviously. Yeah. I'd love to go back and join and just so you're a fly on the wall and that can't happen.

4 (46m 9s):
Yeah. Well I, I don't, I don't tell my secrets in the night. You can, it's a few Mason mates till no, that's sorry. Alright. You hear now. Okay. And you perhaps you're married him. He's good. But you've mentioned kids a few times. Yeah. That's off the cards now or is it what's what's the,

2 (46m 35s):
Yeah, so that was obviously, it was a bit of a obstacle to get him to have a daughter because my dad had the operation, so she didn't have the kit to do the joining. Yeah. But somebody had to, you know, have IVF and we had to put the spell on ice and all that sort of stuff. It was. Yeah.

4 (46m 53s):
And it was your spear man. Yes, yes. Yes. So I mean to put it into context, we were trying for a family before I was going to take the plunge into the whole process and it just wasn't working. So we went and obviously you got a sales test and things like that found out what was going on. And so there were some things that weren't quite right. And it was probably going to be that we were never going to get pregnant naturally. And you're going to be an Ivy, a family anyway. Yeah. We make provisions for that and yeah. So that's where we went and yeah, the rest of us to Kate, because she had to do the baking, they had to bake and deliver all the Oh yeah, yeah.

4 (47m 34s):
Oh, that's cool. I going have said, that's something that you both wanted and you've got it. That's fantastic. I would love to be at that. And she's got two cool mumps then. Nevermind. I'm not mom

2 (47m 46s):
One. Isn't it? When she was about to one day, she just walked past our wedding photos and went there's me now. Cause she calls Marty meaner, which is short for mummy, Martina mum and she's meaner. And then she just walked past her wedding photo and pointed at Marty meant there's Mina and Martin. I looked at each other and complete shock, like she's two. How did she figure that out? And then we were, we tested her a few times. She just worked it out. She just knew the bloke and the picture was Marty. And in her head that's dad like whole society, his mum and dad. And even though we live in the most gender diverse home and she sees trans people all the time, gay people all the time, she still has that, you know, that societal gender construct.

2 (48m 26s):
And so she insists on,

4 (48m 29s):
She does. Yeah. You get daddy D yeah. Something like that. Yeah. And you know, at the end of the day you have to shoot really

2 (48m 35s):
In the third person though, to your face. You cause you're Marty. But when she's talking about, Oh my mum and daddy are coming.

4 (48m 42s):
Yeah. And yeah, I won't take it away from her. Yeah. Yeah. And I think it's, I guess it's my old fashioned, this a little bit where I still grew up at that time where every little girl needs her daddy and she wants to call me daddy. Well, so be it. She can be daddy. Yeah. And that's, that's a very interesting thing. I mean, in that she confuses her friends

2 (49m 8s):
Say that's my mommy and daddy and there's two women standing there and they're like, wow,

4 (49m 12s):
You're a few. Right. So yeah. I mean that's yeah. How do you feel about that? You're all good with that or, yeah. I guess if anything gets my embarrassment, not hers. So if we're down a shop or whatever, then she calls me daddy. Then I look around, I think, okay. If someone noticed that said, yes, I am. So it's a funny moment, but it is a little embarrassing, but that's my issues. It's not her. She doesn't, she's not, she's extremely proud of you. She is. Yeah. So yeah. Look, she probably will be more in the future when she understands more of the that's a long road. You've warmed me up.

4 (49m 53s):
I have asked her to, I said, look, I've got another, she's calling me daddy at home. Now I am your daddy and I'll be your daddy. But sometimes yeah. Let's keep it down a little bit in public sometimes to save her from any potential awkwardness with the school and everything <inaudible> but she says it, she says it. Oh yeah.

2 (50m 15s):
Yeah. And she'll get she's still six. Yeah. She doesn't she'll get there eventually she'll understand that the Bowman that's beyond her comprehension. Okay.

4 (50m 23s):
It's embarrassing. I think, I think it's us so much trying to protect her. Yeah. But you know, we're very

2 (50m 28s):
Honest with her, which she knows Marty was a man and I was a girl. The doctors helped her to change from being a boy to a girl. Like she knows you haven't lied anything about it

1 (50m 39s):
To anyone as well. She's happy to discuss the issue at any opportunity moment. Yeah.

2 (50m 44s):
At the school. Cause she was obviously talking about private parts or, and the school we're like, we don't talk private parts. So I had to have that conversation. We're going, you can talk about these things, but you can't do it.

1 (50m 55s):
So how does that go?

2 (50m 58s):
Pretty good. They're really good. They're really supportive of us, you know? Yeah.

1 (51m 1s):
Because you know, I think you guys know I'm not a massive religion fan, so because I think it's a great way for us all to be torn apart as opposed to put together, it can't be. Yes. Yeah. And I'm not a massive church gala caters more than, than I am. But yeah. Apart from the fact that John doesn't always allow us anyway. But yeah, we, we chose to bring the up in the Christian values.

2 (51m 24s):
It was important. Important to me. I must be me, but you know, you've brought up as Christian as well. So it's not far for us,

1 (51m 33s):
But didn't, I mean, what an interesting mix, she goes, it got a little Whirlpool of different colors and textures. You guys have got new laws on things. I think that's super cool.

2 (51m 44s):
Yeah. And we've got a few extra hurdles that we have to cross that other people don't like we have to think about. I'm constantly strategizing about how to protect my daughter from, you know, when she grows up a bit and the kids get a little bit more

1 (51m 59s):
Nasty. Cause they do the hits of 10, 11,

2 (52m 1s):
12, then then they start to be quite cruel. And I, I'm constantly thinking about how can I give her the social skills to cope with that? Or what words can I tell her to use? Or how can I ensure that she's got various sources of self-esteem so that, you know, it's not all just bound up in one person. If that person turns on her, you know, I'm,

1 (52m 21s):
I'll tell you. What's interesting in that I found it very interesting experience with my kids. My kids all went to public school. They three, yeah. When did they finish three years ago or something that they finished up, but it was really just me with the dealing with kids who felt that they were gay, you know, gay kids or trans, you know, feeling kids. They didn't care. And it was really interesting for me because in my day you would be shot to beat. Absolutely. And it just, a lot of it, maybe I was lucky with the fact that where they went, I thought that they went to Berkeley for school and I thought it was fantastic in a lot of ways in dealing with, you know, differences in people that they didn't care, like I'm going to on a, my daughter's sporting days and he's this tall lanky boy dressed in full high heels of dress, all the gear there and no one better.

1 (53m 19s):
And I just thought, well, yeah, that's good. I think, yeah. Certainly with my experience that the place in the time I've been in the place,

3 (53m 27s):
The leaps and bounds that they've come on in those last four years, five years, it's been amazing. But certainly within society in general, over the last probably wouldn't say much more than five years because the society as well, but it's changed so much. Yeah. Certainly from when I first came out and then the first few years we noticed that the start of the change with the society and then it's just accelerated and everything's just going. Yeah.

1 (53m 54s):
Well I think it's generational change is a wonderful thing. Like I tell the story slightly off what we're talking about, but my daughter asked me to pick a friend of hers at once just to compete peanut pickup in his corner. And it was like, that was year two or three or whatever it was. And I said, well, well, she'd look like, like, I don't know. And Oh, she's wearing a Humpy bong. Well, no, cause like at 400 other kids around here and I was sitting there and I couldn't find this kid and it turns out the China was black and Lanny had never thought to refer to it was, Oh, she's black because she would have stood out there. I couldn't notice it, but it was really weird that that just didn't occur to her. It wasn't a big deal. That's true. And I think that's a wonderful generational thing.

1 (54m 35s):
If I look, we go back and forth and we make mistakes in artists and stuff, I get that. But I'll just be very happy if no one cared particularly. And I think often think with people fighting for recognition that they shouldn't be looking for recognition to be signed as different or a different party can no one care. And then for, for me, that sort of change racism and homophobia and a lot of other bits of posts.

3 (55m 1s):
Right. And you've hit the nail on the head as far as my sort of feelings are as well. And I've said I've made it, made it clear to a few people where yeah. If we take the LGBT community, they need to get their own backyard rights before everyone was going to take him seriously. Yeah. Yeah. And, but on the top of that, yeah. There are, there's a lot of work that needs to be done. But the day we get to the point where we don't have to talk about it, then we've done our job. Yeah.

2 (55m 25s):
So no one talks about the fact that women go to vote. This is just normal now. Yeah. And so we need to get the point where no one cares if you're gay or straight or trans or BI or whatever it is.

1 (55m 35s):
I think we will get to that point. And I don't know if all say it in our lifetime, but I certainly hope we do. And people like you guys being open to talk about like just questions. Cause people want to know, they're interested. I want to know how it all works and what happens in listening because it's not the norm, but when no one cares we'll win, that'll be the big deal on it. So I'm happy to wrap this up shortly. If you guys find, is there anything that you want to add? Any other little stories, anything, you know, there's always stories. There's always something we could have a lot to do that over B sometime or wine or whatever you like. But if there's nothing else, I'm very grateful. I love your love story. And I do. And I've always thought of that as it is from, from when I met you Kate, particularly.

1 (56m 16s):
But I it's a pleasure now on you too. And look, thank you very much for sharing your story. And

3 (56m 24s):
Yeah, we

4 (56m 24s):
Talk about our story, but this whole thing has been an adventure for us, both as a team, you know, we are very much a team, a unit. And so it's not an individual thing. I could have done this in that case. And I think you wouldn't have done it with that and you wouldn't be happy. No, that's right. So, but yeah, I'd put it out there to all the transgender people who are coming out support is all the thing. Yeah. Support is everything. Yep. A hundred percent and hopefully all partners, especially, but the rest of society can just be cool. Absolutely. A hundred percent. Alright. Thanks gang. Appreciate it. People out there. Thanks very much for listening to no humble opinions wants to once again, thanks to the catchment brewing company and we will catch up next week on nine humble opinions.

4 (57m 7s):
Thanks for coming.

0 (57m 10s):
<inaudible>.