On the Tech Trail: Walks with Strategic Leaders

S2E4 Tech Privilege Precipice

April 06, 2021 MassTLC & Matter Season 2 Episode 4
On the Tech Trail: Walks with Strategic Leaders
S2E4 Tech Privilege Precipice
Chapters
On the Tech Trail: Walks with Strategic Leaders
S2E4 Tech Privilege Precipice
Apr 06, 2021 Season 2 Episode 4
MassTLC & Matter

Technology has the power to exclude. Sure, it can (and often does) connect marginalized communities to resources, but many people lack the access necessary to sustain meaningful growth, both professionally and financially. In that way, what technology provides for some communities, it limits in others. 

This episode, our guests talk us through a topic that many of us take for granted: access to the internet and the impact of connectivity (or lack of) to our economy and society. We’ll hear about web access as a basic human right, the technology impact of the pandemic on communities of color, and finally how Boston is emerging from this crisis with a plan to improve access, connectivity, and quality of life for everyone. 

Highlights from this episode: 

  • Christina Luconi (Chief People Officer at Rapid7) introduces the idea of “Tech Privilege” alongside other issues of privilege highlighted by the pandemic 
  • Pam Reeve (Chair of The Commonwealth Institute, former CEO of Lightbridge, Inc.) digs into internet access as a basic human right 
  • Director of Digital Transformation at Microsoft’s Airband Initiative, Aimee Sprung, discusses how the pandemic put a spotlight on connectivity gaps 
  • Katherine Newman, the System Chancellor for Academic Programs and SVP for Economic Development at UMass, parses out the nuances of access and opportunity 
  • Joshua Ness (Sr Manager at Verizon 5G Labs) tells us how 5G will help bridge existing digital divides 
  • Cambridge Innovation Center’s founder and CEO, Tim Rowe, explains how spaces can shape inclusive and diverse communities while providing access to the internet and technology 

So, follow us on our journey this season as we investigate Boston’s challenges as a microcosm for bigger issues of equity and access. Through topics like access to technology, healthcare innovations, the future of education, and forward-thinking DE&I strategies, we take Boston’s Brand Problem out of the shadows — and onto the Tech Trail.

Show Notes Transcript

Technology has the power to exclude. Sure, it can (and often does) connect marginalized communities to resources, but many people lack the access necessary to sustain meaningful growth, both professionally and financially. In that way, what technology provides for some communities, it limits in others. 

This episode, our guests talk us through a topic that many of us take for granted: access to the internet and the impact of connectivity (or lack of) to our economy and society. We’ll hear about web access as a basic human right, the technology impact of the pandemic on communities of color, and finally how Boston is emerging from this crisis with a plan to improve access, connectivity, and quality of life for everyone. 

Highlights from this episode: 

  • Christina Luconi (Chief People Officer at Rapid7) introduces the idea of “Tech Privilege” alongside other issues of privilege highlighted by the pandemic 
  • Pam Reeve (Chair of The Commonwealth Institute, former CEO of Lightbridge, Inc.) digs into internet access as a basic human right 
  • Director of Digital Transformation at Microsoft’s Airband Initiative, Aimee Sprung, discusses how the pandemic put a spotlight on connectivity gaps 
  • Katherine Newman, the System Chancellor for Academic Programs and SVP for Economic Development at UMass, parses out the nuances of access and opportunity 
  • Joshua Ness (Sr Manager at Verizon 5G Labs) tells us how 5G will help bridge existing digital divides 
  • Cambridge Innovation Center’s founder and CEO, Tim Rowe, explains how spaces can shape inclusive and diverse communities while providing access to the internet and technology 

So, follow us on our journey this season as we investigate Boston’s challenges as a microcosm for bigger issues of equity and access. Through topics like access to technology, healthcare innovations, the future of education, and forward-thinking DE&I strategies, we take Boston’s Brand Problem out of the shadows — and onto the Tech Trail.

Christina Luconi:

Internet is really critical.

Pam Reeve:

If we had broad band nirvana, it would be water or electricity.

Josh Ness:

5G is going to be able to close the digital divide in ways that we haven't before.

Aimee Sprung:

Broadband is really just the foundation.

Tom Hopcroft:

Welcome to season two of On the Tech Trail. I'm MassTLC's CEO, Tom Hopcroft. In this season, we hear candid stories of the pandemic from some of Boston's most influential voices; from issues of equity and access to technology and talent strategy. We're building off last season's insightful conversations as we tackle some of today's most burning questions. This episode, our guests talk us through a topic that many of us take for granted: access to the internet, and the impact of connectivity on our economy and society. We'll hear about internet access as a basic human right, the technology impact of the pandemic on communities of color, and finally, how Boston is emerging from this crisis with a plan to improve access connectivity and quality of life for everyone. Our first guest leads the diversity equity and inclusion efforts at Rapid7 as chief people officer, and she has a keen understanding of what she refers to as tech privilege from the vantage point of a cybersecurity company. Coming up next after the break, we'll hear from Christina Luconi.

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Christina Luconi:

Internet is really critical. I feel so bad for students, for example, who just don't have the access, or they have one computer between four children and parents and everybody is trying to do some work or school, and everyone's struggling. For me, internet access and technology does seem like a basic human right at this point. One of the topics that's come up this year a lot, especially with all the social justice work going on has been about privilege and white privilege. I think we have tech privilege. For so many of our companies, we take it for granted that we have internet access and laptops at the ready and all of that. Our company was able to go home and not miss a beat because we all had access. I think we take that for granted. There are so many businesses, there are so many little companies that just are struggling because they don't have those basic things.

Pam Reeve:

The argument for investing in broadband is almost straightforward and simple, it seems a little silly to make.

Tom Hopcroft:

That's Pam Reeve, chair of the Commonwealth Institute and former CEO of Lightbridge, a Burlington-based telecom company here in Massachusetts. To her, the idea of universal broadband is a no brainer.

Pam Reeve:

All of our business is predicated on connectivity. Our new businesses get built on this backbone. Our existing businesses sell, serve, support based on connectivity. We are educated based on connectivity. More and more, our healthcare is going to be based on connectivity. COVID hits and we go from something like 8% usage to 75% in a month. It can be done for those people who have the access. One of the things that we've found through some of the programs where the kids get trained to do their homework is that the adults get dragged along. It's kind of the opposite of what you might think, that the adults get dragged along. If you think about not just education, but, let's say, healthcare. So right now, we're trying to get everybody vaccinated and for the most part, initially it was go online and schedule your appointment. That works great unless you can't get online. So all of these things are woven together and have to be dealt with in that kind of a holistic way. I'm really optimistic though about our moving in the right direction on that.

Pam Reeve:

The drive to get broadband as a universal product, or have it available for everyone has been going on since the construct of broadband. I worked on a program for Mayor Menino a number of years ago, trying to deal with the lack of access in Roxbury and Dorchester, and that area is one of the worst digital deserts. The other is we have a lot of good businesses that are not all service businesses; advanced manufacturing, robotics, and so on and so forth. But the vast majority, I think, of our economy is based on knowledge. That knowledge requires more people with knowledge and with capability to produce the services and the products that we want to sell here and sell around the world. That means using all our talent, and you can't use all your talent if you don't have them connected, you don't have them educated. Simple as that.

Pam Reeve:

When I think about a world where we have universal broadband, Massachusetts moves from, I think we're number nine, according to the FCC in our internet coverage, speed and pricing, but that's a number that hides a lot of those deserts. New Jersey is number one. If we had sort of broadband nirvana, it would be like water or electricity. It would be everywhere. You wouldn't think about where it came from or which kind of service you were using. When I flip on a light switch, I don't know whether that's hydro or wind or what that is. I don't care. I care that the light goes on. That's what I'd love to see us have for with broadband. That would enable things I can't even imagine. It's like asking someone, "Why do you want the internet?" 20 years ago. What's going to happen if I have internet everywhere? We could imagine some things, but look now at all of the businesses and all of the importance in our economy of things that were enabled by having the internet.

Tom Hopcroft:

The importance of internet access is impossible to ignore. And for someone like Aimee Sprung, the strategic director of operations at Microsoft Airband Initiative, the challenges of closing access gaps are especially top of mind.

Aimee Sprung:

In my current role focused on broadband access, nothing could have shown a brighter light on the challenge around broadband access than the pandemic has. From an Airband perspective in particular, I think we spend less time sort of justifying why we're building out broadband, right? I think people in the tech industry sort of naturally understand it. Although, there's a large percentage of people in the tech industry who live in densely populated areas that don't suffer from the broadband gap. So if anything, we spend most of our time sort of making sure that the tech industry knows that there are still these broadband gaps across the country and frankly, even in the city of Boston, remain a gap there.

Aimee Sprung:

I think that the pandemic has sort of highlighted the need for increased access to broadband, and that's allowed us to talk about this work more actively at a practical nature, even public sector funding because of things like the CARES Act and FCC funding and any of the relief funding that's coming out of the government almost always has a nod to broadband at this point. It's typically intertwined with access to a device and digital literacy, which is sort of that's the key and the direction we want to go. If we really want to try to address digital equity at the same time

Tom Hopcroft:

After the break, we'll hear more perspectives on the impact of the pandemic and how it's calling attention to the realities of the digital divide.

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Tom Hopcroft:

Before the break, Aimee Sprung introduced to Airband's work to bridge connectivity gaps and seize the opportunities presented by the pandemic. We'll hear more from Aimee shortly. But first, here's the Commonwealth Institute's Pam Reeve.

Pam Reeve:

If there's one thing this COVID environment has done as it's drained the swamp is shown that big rock of digital inequity and connectivity inequity. As much as the aggregate show that we have a lot of coverage and we have speed and all of that kind of thing, you have to look at individual markets or individual neighborhoods, even individual towns to see what the issues are. Clearly, it's a tautology almost to say, if you go to a world where everything's online, you don't get to participate if you can't get online. Getting online is a matter of connectivity, the availability of it, but also the ability to buy it. It has to be affordable. You also have to have the equipment. You also have to have use cases in training, so you know what to do if you have the connectivity and you have the equipment.

Pam Reeve:

We have certainly places around the Commonwealth that are lacking in any number of those. So in education, which is so fundamental to the economy of Massachusetts, we have kids with their parents driving into a parking lot to get enough bandwidth so they can get online and do their homework. That in the United States of America, let alone Massachusetts in 2021 is ridiculous, absolutely insane. That should not be. But the issues are also quite complicated and quite expensive, at least the way that we've gone about them. I don't think there's any one company or any one entity that can resolve them. Here's another case as with many of the big issues we're facing right now where we need a collaboration and almost a campaign among government, companies, non-profits and education to come together to provide all these solutions. You got to have the connectivity that you can afford, you got to have a piece of equipment that will do what you need for it to do, and you need to know how to use it.

Tom Hopcroft:

Education is a key sector impacted by this digital divide. Katherine Newman, the UMass systems chancellor for academic programs and senior vice president for economic development, has seen the nuanced ways that gaps in opportunity emerge from lack of access.

Katherine Newman:

I think the barriers to adopting the full range of what is technically possible are much more pronounced for young children. Young children were not built to sit in front of computer screens for eight hours a day. I'm not saying the rest of us were either, but I think for young children, this has been really difficult. If they didn't have an adult sitting next to them helping them, I suspect many of our youngsters will have lost almost a year, and it's just tragic. I think also the issues we think about when we speak about inequality are very pronounced when it comes to the technology. We did some surveys on our campuses to learn about how our students were fairing, especially in the spring semester, and what we found was that our low income students had real challenges with internet accessibility. Surprisingly, not so much computer access, but just internet access.

Katherine Newman:

I remember one of our student trustees, our student trustee from the Dartmouth campus spoke about this at a trustees meeting where she's one of four or five siblings and her mom, and all of them were trying to use the same bandwidth at the same time. It's dropping off and she's losing access. So anytime you got a service that depends on income to purchase it, you're going to have any qualities in access. So if we were able to do a new deal style program and completely internet the whole country, as we did with electricity and the long distance past or roads, these are infrastructure issues that are very profound. If we're going to make this a major form of access, then we've got to make sure it's universally available.

Katherine Newman:

I think as well, there is a learning curve for instructors, not so much can they do it, but can they do it as well as they'd like to do it? Can they use the full range of their communication abilities? We saw some fantastic work done on our Lowell campus, which is a very engineering science heavy campus. They had to figure out how to use simulations, for example, instead of laboratory experiments, how to adapt laboratory experiments to the home, right? They were sending out kits and things that people needed to do at home to simulate the kinds of experimental work they would do in the lab. So there are ways to adapt, but it took a lot of effort and thinking.

Katherine Newman:

I think the jury is probably still out from the viewpoint of our science faculty as to whether they think the students were able to master the same range of skills when trying to do laboratory heavy or clinical work as they would have done when they're on campus. But if we set that aside, I think there's just a matter of comfort level. We spent hours and hours in seminars that were developed for faculty to help them learn how to use Zoom technology, how to use breakout rooms, how to prevent cheating. There's just a million things that we know how to do on campus that we had to relearn in a new technology basket, but we did. We did, and we did because our faculty were very devoted to preserving the quality of what they deliver to students.

Tom Hopcroft:

After the break, we'll hear about the work Bostonians are doing to level the technology playing field.

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Tom Hopcroft:

Coming out of the pandemic, we've seen how connectivity issues disproportionately impact people of color. At the Airband Initiative, Aimee sprung has witnessed how this has played out firsthand and the work being done to address it.

Aimee Sprung:

In our environment and in the Boston area, obviously there's an increasing need for access to education and sort of helping people get the basic skills that they need to connect to those services to support their children who need access to education. Then the other big area that we're looking to address is around virtual healthcare, and how do we extend access to healthcare resources, whether it's COVID or even just specialist services to rural communities that haven't historically had access to those healthcare resources? In order to access any of that, you need base level digital literacy and we need to help people not just get connected, but also make sure that they know how to access those resources. Broadband is really just the foundation. Just because you bring broadband to a community doesn't necessarily mean that people are automatically going to subscribe and sign up for that service. Typically, they need to have access to an affordable device, a high quality affordable device, and also they need the digital literacy to understand how to use that device and how to access the resources.

Aimee Sprung:

I know I'm seeing, even among my family and friends now just trying to get access to these appointments for vaccines among an older generation, everything's being delivered online. While to us, to my generation and my kids, it's second nature, it seems like an unfair expectation to expect everyone to be able to access the internet and sign up for their appointment and sort of step through these tools the way they've been set up. Focusing on digital equity requires us not only to look at racial equity, but also geographic equity. Access to internet and technology in rural communities is critical to inclusion and addressing digital equity. At the same time, last summer, Microsoft, like many companies, increased our focus on racial justice. A big part of that commitment was access to internet in urban settings in particular. So where Airband had been exclusively focused on rural communities, starting last summer, we made a commitment to extend our work into urban settings where much of our rural work had really been focused on communities where there wasn't an ISP or where there wasn't connectivity.

Aimee Sprung:

The urban work very quickly, we realized in a lot of cases, there is a broadband provider; either the access is not affordable or they're not really extending access to the people who need it most. The work that Airband is doing in rural communities across the US and urban settings is incredibly relevant to Massachusetts. I think it speaks directly to the need for public/private partnerships in order to address the gap. On one hand, the public sector is trying to raise funding, whether it's from the federal level or the state level to support broadband deployment. On the other hand, there's a tremendous opportunity for private sector to weigh in and engage around the broadband gaps that we see, and that there's all kinds of data that reflects by extending broadband equitably across the state. Everyone rises, right? It brings everyone up. The more people that have access to broadband, it helps with economic growth, it helps with skill development. All good things happen. So I think that one of the things I'm observing across the country is just this need for industry and public sector to come together to figure out how to address this gap.

Josh Ness:

And we're asking questions about where our gaps in the value chain, in the supply chain, in the logistics chain?

Tom Hopcroft:

That was Josh Ness, senior manager of Verizon's 5G labs. He works closely with the applications and rollout of 5G conductivity.

Josh Ness:

5G doesn't really have a, "killer app," or killer enablement function, except that it's going to just connect everything. So the way that we think about IOT is going to drastically change. It's no longer going to be connected refrigerators and digital assistants in your home. It's going to be entire communities that are connected to autonomous vehicles that are connected to pedestrians, that are connected to establishment and businesses. 5G is going to be that connectivity layer that allows for the transport of information and allows for edge enabled compute and artificial intelligence to be able to provide instant access to information, contextual information that allows people to make better decisions. The reason why now's the time to do it is because it's here and because now is the time that we can start building out the infrastructure to accommodate the kinds of solutions that it's going to support.

Josh Ness:

Right now, yes, the baseline technology is out there. But as new use cases start to be proved out, the infrastructure will be curated for those experiences, much in the same way that 4G has been optimized for things like the gig economy, for things like e-commerce, for things like the type of video that we're consuming and creating, even right now, with new applications that are enabling content creators. 4G can be optimized for those purposes, and 5G can be used to ensure that those opportunities are available for everyone, to ensure that there is equity in the ability to both create these experiences as well as consume them. So as 5G becomes more ubiquitous, we're going to see that it's going to be able to close the digital divide in ways that we haven't before.

Josh Ness:

That's the noble answer to the question. The other side of the coin is that 4G made people rich. 4G made people billionaires. 4G created the rise of Amazon and Facebook. It made these technologies accessible to everyone who had a cell phone. 4G saw this explosion of startups and developers and companies and ecosystems that were creating new products and services for the masses. It allowed people to be agile. It allowed people to fail fast and create stuff that actually was able to reach consumers using the technology that they had. 5G is going to do the exact same thing. We're on a precipice. We're on a cliff where we're about to go over and all of these new technologies are going to be available.

Tom Hopcroft:

Pam Reeve, the former CEO of Lightbridge, has some unique insights into how and when we can expect this game-changing leap in access.

Pam Reeve:

So a lot of people think that 5G is going to crash upon us in 2021, 2022. That's not going to happen. I can remember the same stories being told when we were going from 3G to 4G. It was going to be upon us instantaneously, but there are real practicalities that have to happen. You have to build out sites. You have to have handsets that can take the bandwidth. There are applications that have to be developed for it. So it takes a while for those things to happen. I do believe we'll be in a 5G world, but we're not going to be in there next week, and it's going to take some time to even get to the point that 5G is predominant. These things take much longer than most people think.

Pam Reeve:

5G is at a place where a lot of new technologies start, which is a lot of hype and a lot of, "We're going to change the world and it's going to happen tomorrow," kind of thing. But I think 5G will allow for greater connectivity with lower latency for things like the machine to machine interaction and machine to site interaction. It will allow for you to take, what we have been calling, data centers and push compute to the edge, again, to get faster responsiveness and lower latency. That is not going to be free. That's going to take some investment. Again, there's a lot of hype about it and there is a lot of advertising about 5G, but it's ahead of its availability. But I think it will allow for new product areas.

Josh Ness:

We don't even necessarily know what they are yet, but an entirely new breed of entrepreneur is going to be possible. An entire new type of company is going to be possible. An entirely new type of technology ecosystem is going to be possible. And 5G is going to allow for not only for these companies and these developers and these entrepreneurs to build things that no one ever dreamed up, but it's going to allow for consumers to be able to access things that are going to bring them closer together, and that are going to empower them in ways that we haven't yet before. So 5G really stands to be transformational on both sides of the coin for the people who are building new things and are under staking their claim, and are creating new types of companies and recognizing all the benefits that come from that, but also to bringing new value to customers and new types of businesses so that they can then thrive in this new fourth industrial revolution.

Pam Reeve:

One of the things that's so exciting about any of these times that are early in a technology is because of the dreaming that takes place, but also more concretely, the piloting and the trial that takes place. One of the things I love about the Massachusetts economy is that we are very comfortable with trying things out, with piloting things, with testing things. We already see it now, and this is absolutely the place for that kind of thing to happen. That will generate more ideas. You start with one idea, you pilot, you trial it, it works, it doesn't work, but one of the upshots is you have more ideas that come out of it. That's part of that kind of innovation environment we have here in Massachusetts, and I'm very excited to see what gets developed here.

Tom Hopcroft:

These developments, as we've heard, will open a whole new world of conductivity. The impact of that will be far reaching. Again, Christina Luconi.

Christina Luconi:

The playing field has been leveled. We've used technology where it feels like we're all together. Right now, who knows where we all are right now? But for all of us to be able to feel like we're sharing something in common has actually been incredibly unifying. Technology has allowed us to be able to do that this year, which has been pretty game changing, I think. One of the biggest trends coming out of all of that or the biggest takeaways for us has been more empathy, we're a company that cares deeply about each other, but I think that by letting each other into our colleagues' lives in a way that might not have been done.

Christina Luconi:

I'm also involved with hack diversity, and it's been really wonderful when so many companies, that their fellows were going to be staffed to for internships this summer, were struggling, those companies were struggling themselves and they wanted to support wonderful programs like this. Then they stepped out. Other companies doubled down and took more fellows than they would have normally done to help their peer company. So I do think it's been really, really hard on marginalized groups, but I do think we live in a community where there are some companies and some folks that are just digging even deeper to make the best of this really difficult time. It sounds a little crazy, but I'm glad they've been thrust to the center because it's really important stuff. It's not, for me, a political thing. It's just basic human rights. I personally believe that everybody has the opportunity to have an amazing career. They just need their foot in the door. After that, it's up to you to make it happen, right? We'll give you the platform to do it. Everyone should have a platform to gain entry, and then it's up to you to maximize that.

Tom Hopcroft:

Cambridge Innovation Center CEO, Tim Rowe, is on the front lines of this investment in diversity and opportunity.

Tim Rowe:

I think we, as leaders, need to take the big long-term picture as we invest in strengthening our communities, whether it's through placemaking, whether it's through the software, the connections between people that need to be forged. When you do that, I think it allows you to survive through difficult times like this pandemic. I've spent much of the last 20 years seeking to build innovation districts. Kendall Square was the first one, and it's still closest to my heart and where I go to work every day that I go to work. One of the things that we have thought about is, how are they changing and what do they need to be healthy? There's a concern out there that innovation districts can be dominated by large companies kind of taking over the environment. If you will, putting too many people from one company all in one place and kind of setting up walls around themselves and in a way, creating a community vacuum with respect to the others in the district.

Tim Rowe:

I believe that that is a concern or can be a concern. There are also things that one can do about it to combat that. There are two principle ones that come to mind. One is something that Cambridge did, which many view as visionary. They actually passed laws that require a certain percentage of the physical space or the office space in their innovation district to be set aside for small organizations on flexible lease terms. So essentially, they observed that yes, these districts can be taken over by the large behemoth giants, and then they lose the mojo that made them successful in the first place. So they've defended it in a very creative way. Typically, these days, because of the way the rules are written, about 10% of the space is set aside for these fledgling organizations. So that's one thing that she can do.

Tim Rowe:

The other is that you have to invest in the commons. So we know if you're trying to build a little town in the Midwest, that town commons where you graze your cattle and where you come out and meet people and maybe go to market, that's really critical. If you don't have it, you don't really have a town. Over the years, we've forgotten that a little bit and sometimes we built these kinds of business districts that are just all buildings and no real commons. You have to finance those. The governments have to be visionary in terms of actually putting money into to pay, to create places that people can meet and mingle in the middle that are open to everyone. We did that to some degree in the innovation district in Boston following the leadership of then mayor, Tom Menino.

Tim Rowe:

From a Boston economic perspective, that district has been a total home run. It delivers an enormous amount of property tax to the city of Boston's coffers, which are in turn, that's money that they can spend on the Boston public schools and on public health and other initiatives that take care of people in Boston in a very real and important way. We similarly built something called Roxbury Innovation Center. The goal again, is to try to build a place where people can make the connections to find opportunity to learn the skills that they need and kind of get a bit of a leg up. We think that's possible. Everywhere, you're seeking to foster innovation and that's important.

Tim Rowe:

So it's a combination of, if you will, setting the rules so you get a diverse mix of different kinds of organizations and people coming into your community, and then investing in the commons or the social software and hardware, if you will, that is not just inside a private building with a locked door. We're looking at building more such things everywhere that we work to try to sort of deepen and enrich this sort of fabric of the community in the middle of these innovation districts. So people should look at these districts, both as performing for their own purposes and to spur innovation and serve the people who work there, but also performing for the cities that they form part of and helping make the cities themselves stronger.

Tom Hopcroft:

Our business and technology community has seen a lot during the pandemic and yet, coming out of it, we're hearing stories of resilience and advocacy for disproportionately impacted communities. We heard about some of this work and how getting access to those who have been overlooked is essential. We'd like to thank our guests, Christina Luconi, Katherine Newman, Pam Reeve, Aimee Sprung, and Josh Ness for sharing their stories as we investigate opportunity and access gaps. Thank you, listeners, for joining us today> Follow us on our journey this season as we investigate Boston's challenges as a microcosm for bigger issues of equity and access through topics like access to technology, healthcare innovations, the future of education and forward-thinking diversity, equity and inclusion strategies. We take Boston's brand problem out of the shadows and onto the tech trail.

Beth York:

On the Tech Trail is a joint effort by the Massachusetts Technology Leadership Council and Matter, a brand elevation agency, and is made in partnership with Invest Northern Ireland. Our host is Tom Hopcroft. Special thanks to Kristen Keane and Mackenzie LeBert from MassTLC for booking our incredible guests. Our producers are Gabe Gerzon, David Riemer, and me, Beth York. Without our editors, David Riemer and Mandy Lawson, each episode would have been three hours long at least. Our graphic designer, Tanner Bjorlie, makes us look good and writer, Shaw Flick, make sense of it all. Our executive producer is Tim Bradley who works inside a closet. Our theme music is by Mikey Geiger. Thanks to everyone involved for contributing, collaborating, and bringing season two to life. If you loved it too, keep the conversation going by sharing on social or by leaving us a rating or review in your podcast app. It makes a huge difference. And if you've got an idea for a pod, let us know at [email protected], and maybe I'll be reading your name in the credits one of these days. Until then, see you next time On the Tech Trail.