Méndez Principles: States reflect on the value of effective interviewing

This episode is the third in our series on the Méndez Principles on Effective Interviewing: a new approach to prevent torture. The Principles aim to end accusatory, coercive and confession-driven practises during investigations; practises we know can lead to torture and ill-treatment.

 In this podcast, we are delighted to share with you highlights from a special side event on the Méndez Principles, held in March 2022 as part of the 49th session of the Human Rights. The online event – which was co-sponsored by 15 States here in Geneva and attended by 100 people – discussed the added value of the Méndez Principles at different stages of the criminal justice system

 The side event was also an opportunity to hear directly from experts and practitioners, including Juan Méndez, former UN Special Rapporteur on torture; Solomon Arase, former Inspector General, Nigeria Police Forces; and Luciano Mariz Maia, Associate Prosecutor General, Office of the Prosecutor General of Brazil.

Find out more about the Méndez Principles: https://www.apt.ch/en/mendez-principles-effective-interviewing

Transcript

Valentina Cadelo

Hello and welcome to Perspectives, the APT’s podcast which explores contemporary issues related to torture prevention and dignity in detention. 

I’m Valentina Cadelo, APT Senior Adviser, Law and Advocacy, and this episode is the third in our series on the Méndez Principles on Effective Interviewing: a new approach to prevent torture. The Principles aim to end accusatory, coercive and confession-driven practises during investigations; practises we know can lead to torture and ill-treatment.

 In this podcast, we are delighted to share with you highlights from a special side event on the Méndez Principles, held in March 2022 as part of the 49th session of the Human Rights. The online event – which was co-sponsored by 15 States here in Geneva and attended by 100 people – discussed the added value of the Méndez Principles at different stages of the criminal justice system

The side event was also an opportunity to hear directly from experts and practitioners, including Juan Méndez, former UN Special Rapporteur on torture, Solomon Arase, former Inspector General, Nigeria Police Forces; and Luciano Mariz Maia, Associate Prosecutor General, Office of the Prosecutor General of Brazil. 

Swiss Ambassador Jürg Lauber began proceedings with a clear statement about the urgent need to end torture and ill-treatment and how the Méndez Principles can help achieve this. 

Ambassador Jürg Lauber

International law prohibits torture and ill-treatment at all times, and under all circumstances. Switzerland is committed to ensuring that this ban is upheld worldwide and supports monitoring and enforcement internationally. On the Méndez Principles, Switzerland very much welcomes the efforts to make the work of law enforcement more efficient on the one hand, and to strengthen the compliance with human rights obligations on the other.

The Principles on non-coercive of interviewing address both these objectives. Not only do they make law enforcement more efficient, they also have the potential to increase the public trust in the criminal justice system and law enforcement institutions. As you all know, torture, ill-treatment or coercion are neither compatible with international human rights obligations, nor do they actually lead to better results in investigations.

They produce false charges and may put innocent people in prison while the real perpetrators may continue to walk free. Moreover, the police officers themselves are violating the law and public trust in the criminal justice system is damaged. Hence, developing appropriate Principles for effective interviewing was a necessity.

It is now up to States and relevant authorities, international organisations and civil society, to implement them.  

Valentina Cadelo

We were delighted to have Ambassador Federico Villegas from Argentina address the side event. He took up this important theme of implementation and shared his commitment to use his term as President of the Human Rights Council in 2022 to advocate for the Méndez Principles.

Ambassador Federico Villegas

Let me tell you that we need these Méndez Principles. We need to look at the Méndez Principles from the Human Rights Council perspective in two ways. The first way is the historical perspective, that we always have to think collectively what we are doing in the Council.

We have a collective responsibility to move forward in the progressive development on all the issues of human rights, and the human rights challenges are tremendous all over the world.

The same way that its slavery was accepted and we decided as humanity to leave it behind, the same way colonialism was accepted and we left it behind, torture was also accepted and justified by the most developed nations in the world and by the most important jurists of the world. And what we did is a new social contract that that's not acceptable.

And that's everything we have been doing in the last decades on the fight against torture. And that is why the Méndez Principles puts us back into that collective responsibility of progressive development of human rights within the context of interrogation techniques, within the context of police and security officers addressing a certain interrogation and not falling into techniques that are clearly torture.

And you have my support as Chair of the Council this year to put the Méndez Principles in the agenda in the different formats that we might have. 

And finally, I have a personal comment that I cannot finish without mentioning. I've known Juan Méndez, the Argentine that has gave such a tremendous legacy to the human rights all over the world. And for me, it's almost science fiction for me to be chairing the Human Rights Council and having Juan Méndez here that I've only known him for 25 years and talking about the Méndez Principles. So I think we are in very good hands if we have progressive development of human rights in this fight against torture with the Méndez Principles as a new frontier on this.

Valentina Cadelo

Representing Costa Rica, Ambassador Shara Duncan Villalobos highlighted the multi-disciplinary nature of the Méndez Principles, which integrate insights from psychology, investigations, human rights and ethics. She also urged that the Principles be implemented at the national level and that good practices be shared widely.

This point on implementation, and the crucial role of States in this process, was reinforced by special guest speaker, Juan Méndez, from whom the Principles take their name. It was Mr Méndez who called for the development of Principles on non-coercive interviewing during his time as Special Rapportuer on torture and then oversaw their drafting between 2017 and 2021. 

And we will have the opportunity to hear more from him in another episode of our podcast.

Juan Méndez

Ultimately, responsibility for implementation of this methodology lies with the highest authorities in each State. By moving away from a culture of accusatory coercive and confession driven practices, states can draw upon the best practices that inspire the Principles to ensure that the presumption of innocence is respected. That only guilty persons are convicted. That wrongly accused persons are freed and that justice is served for victims and for society at large. 

Central to the realisation of the Principles is a strategy to generate broad support for their development for their eventual endorsement and implementation.

We feel it is important to obtain an official statement of adoption endorsement or other form of support from the international community as represented by the United Nations. It is clear that there is growing momentum globally to shift away from confession driven interrogation techniques to non-coercive interviewing methodologies. Adoption and implementation of the Principles will play a critical role in this transformation and will constitute a significant step towards the elimination of torture and ill treatment by authorities during interviews.

Valentina Cadelo

Speaking from Nigeria, former Inspector General of Police Solomon Arase, told the side event that the benefits of the Méndez Principles cannot be overemphasised. In addition to upholding human rights, there are clear economic benefits for their implementation. 

Solomon Arase 

The more you keep somebody in custody through torture, through confession, you are putting a lot of pressure on the resources of States. The monies that should have been devoted to infrastructure and social amenities are now diverted to keeping people in custody and feeding them. So that is one area where I think these Principles will be very, very beneficial to countries in this African sub-region.

And that is why I am very, very anxious that we should be able to adopt this approach to law enforcement and see how we can operationalise it. One of the difficulties most people have said is that most law enforcement officers, not only in Africa but globally, they always resist change. And I know that trying to bring these Principles on board will face some challenges. But I know that once we are able to incorporate it into the training curriculum of most of the training institutions, I'm sure the first step would have been achieved in trying to sharpen the knowledge, the competencies, the skills and attitudes of law enforcement officers towards dealing with issues of social disorder.

The most important, the most effective way we're going to use to get this thing properly done is through training, retraining and training the trainers. And I'm sure that in a very short while, despite the resistance that I anticipate from law enforcement officers, who are already used to a certain pattern of doing their job, we'll be able to get them out. And in the end they'll be very glad that they came across the Principles.  

Valentina Cadelo

The third expert presenter at the side event, Luciano Mariz Maia, highlighted the added value of the Méndez Principles in supporting the proper administration of justice. He noted that in Brazil, there are times when torture will be used to obtain evidence or a confession, which is then  presented to a court. And while Brazil’s legislation is clear that evidence or confessions obtained from torture are not admissible, the legislation also sets out the requirement to prove that torture has been used to gather this evidence.

Luciano Mariz Maia

And then I say, who establishes that the statement has been made as a result of torture? Police investigation, prosecution, judiciary. And this is where I come and I have done that in a research in Brazil. This is exactly my PhD thesis, which is the role of judiciary to control torture. I've come to the conclusion that there are for “U’s” … that characterises torture. It is unseen, untold, uninvestigated and unpunished. It's unseen because of the places where it takes. It's untold because it's not known by the outside world, and no one inside comes to say. It's uninvestigated because, normally, law enforcement are involved in the commitment of the offense. So, they do not investigate themselves. Then it goes unpunished. 

So, we can design policies, to confront, to combat torture. And the Méndez Principles help to reduce frustration and stress, avoid dispute, reduce emotional arousal, neutralise peer pressure … and assist compliance. We have to understand that the Principles are a paradigm, a standard, and we have to train people and open minds of people to understand how to put them in force.  

Valentina Cadelo

Following the presentations, participants were invited to present questions to our panel of experts. After 90 minutes of excellent discussion, Cynthia Attuquayefio, Representative of Ghana,  concluded the side event by reminding government officials of the added value of the Mendez Principles in supporting States meet the obligations under the UN Convention against Torture, also known as UNCAT.

Cynthia Attuquayefio

This side event has shown us why the recently launched Méndez Principles are a key instrument to advance human rights, protection, and strengthen the rule of law and the fair administration of justice, and more importantly, how they can assist our governments in moving away from confession-oriented interviewing techniques towards a reliable and accurate evidence gathering methodology.

As many of our governments present here today are parties to UNCAT, I would also like to remind you that two of UNCAT's key provisions are intrinsically linked with a successful implementation of the Méndez Principles, namely their obligation to provide training on the prohibition against torture for law enforcement and public officials involved in custody, interrogation, and treatment of arrested and detained persons, as well as a requirement to keep under systemic review interrogation rules, instructions, methods and practices with a view of preventing torture and other ill treatment.

This is why integrating the Méndez Principles in our domestic laws and regulations, policies and practices can support and strengthen our domestic torture prevention and response efforts to allow for more effective UNCAT implementation. 

Valentina Cadelo

That was Cynthia Attuquayefio, Representative of Ghana, one of the CTI Core States.

The side event on the Méndez Principles was organised by the APT in partnership with the Anti-Torture Initiative at American University and the Norwegian Centre for Human Rights.

It was co-sponsored by the Permanent Missions of Argentina, Australia, Austria, Costa Rica, Luxembourg, Norway, Switzerland, Thailand, Uruguay and CTI Core States of Chile, Denmark, Fiji, Ghana, Indonesia and Morocco.

You can find out more about the Méndez Principles by visiting our website: www.apt.ch.

We hope you enjoyed this episode of Perspectives. We’ll be back soon with another episode in this series exploring the Méndez Principles.

And if you have an idea for us to cover on Perspectives, we’d love to hear from you. Contact us via email on apt@apt.ch. Or find us on social media – Facebook, Twitter and LinkedIn

Thanks for listening and we look forward to your company next time.