Have you ever felt misunderstood or struggled to communicate the complexities of a personal journey? As LB and Rashad join us, we unravel these challenges, exploring the art of managing expectations within the recovery sphere. We share our intimate stories, frustrations, and the profound lessons we've learned while journeying through recovery - an often misunderstood and stigmatized path.
In the latter part of our dialogue, we confront the societal stigma encircling addiction and recovery head-on. We candidly discuss how these misconceptions can impede progress and how we've turned these hardships into catalysts for change. Together, we delve into the stigma in the workforce, emphasizing the power of authenticity and non-judgment. Sharing laughter and wisdom, we illustrate how taking one step at a time can instigate a ripple effect of transformation, not only for us but for the broader community. Join us as we shed light on the recovery world, promoting understanding, empathy, and acceptance.
For over 50 years, Harmony Foundation has worked as a nonprofit to serve those seeking recovery from substance addictions. Our residential and intensive outpatient programs are in a collaborative and respectful treatment environment with multiple specialty tracks offering additional support. Our main campus is nestled on a 43-acre campus in the Rocky Mountains just outside of Estes Park, Colorado, that promotes physical, emotional, and spiritual healing. With one of the most robust alumni programs in the county, clients remain connected and empowered for a lifelong journey of recovery.
For more information about Harmony Foundation, please visit:
www.harmonyfoundationinc.com
Have you ever felt misunderstood or struggled to communicate the complexities of a personal journey? As LB and Rashad join us, we unravel these challenges, exploring the art of managing expectations within the recovery sphere. We share our intimate stories, frustrations, and the profound lessons we've learned while journeying through recovery - an often misunderstood and stigmatized path.
In the latter part of our dialogue, we confront the societal stigma encircling addiction and recovery head-on. We candidly discuss how these misconceptions can impede progress and how we've turned these hardships into catalysts for change. Together, we delve into the stigma in the workforce, emphasizing the power of authenticity and non-judgment. Sharing laughter and wisdom, we illustrate how taking one step at a time can instigate a ripple effect of transformation, not only for us but for the broader community. Join us as we shed light on the recovery world, promoting understanding, empathy, and acceptance.
For over 50 years, Harmony Foundation has worked as a nonprofit to serve those seeking recovery from substance addictions. Our residential and intensive outpatient programs are in a collaborative and respectful treatment environment with multiple specialty tracks offering additional support. Our main campus is nestled on a 43-acre campus in the Rocky Mountains just outside of Estes Park, Colorado, that promotes physical, emotional, and spiritual healing. With one of the most robust alumni programs in the county, clients remain connected and empowered for a lifelong journey of recovery.
For more information about Harmony Foundation, please visit:
www.harmonyfoundationinc.com
Hey, hey, welcome to season two, episode 27 of Monday State of Mind, brought to you by Harmony Foundation. My name is Michael Mausel and I am your host. Oh baby, oh baby, happy Monday. You guys, get ready for this episode, because this episode there's not just one guest, there's two, so that makes it three voices that are going to be heard today on Monday State of Mind, and I'm so excited to be here to talk about managing expectations.
Speaker 1:There are so many different avenues that we can go down when talking about managing expectations, and there's a reason I have these two brilliant humans on the podcast with me to talk about managing expectations, because we're going to totally dive in from a recovery standpoint, from the people in recovery versus the people that are maybe not dealing with drug and alcohol addiction. How do people that are so passionate about recovery and trying to help people, how do we manage expectations when there is people that just don't know? That can cause frustration, it can sometimes cause resentment, it can cause anger, it can make people stop communicating. If that's the way some people go, the people that I have on today are going to talk about how they manage expectations so that things like resentment, anger, frustration, shutting down doesn't happen because the work that we do in this field of recovery is so important. And I will also say, when we start talking about this is that the thing that I've known to be true about drug and alcohol addiction that I also see in the world today is that it's hard to compartmentalize or it's hard to quantify, because it affects everybody differently, which can also cause the frustration amongst other people and just lack of knowledge and understanding, and so we're going to dive in. We're going to get spicy. Check it.
Speaker 1:I have Elvie back on and I have Rishad on the podcast. Okay, guys say what's up to the world. Come on, elvie Say hello, hello world, rishad, what's up? Let's talk about this Managing expectations. When I say the words, managing expectations, with people understanding what we do when the world of recovery, understanding the importance that we don't just focus on recovery for National Overdose Awareness Day and National Recovery Month, that this is something that's not a fad or something that I'm going to love it for a day, but it's something that, hey, this is going on all the time. So, instead of just talking about it and thinking that it's cool to look at for a day or a month, how do you guys be able to communicate to the world. Hey, it's not just about a day or a month, it's an all day thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think. For me personally, my recovery journey started with someone seeing me as human or me at least understanding that they saw me, and so I keep that in mind a lot when someone's recovery goals are different than what mine are, or even from a heart reduction standpoint.
Speaker 2:I have to remember that what's most important is that I see them as a human and that we're dealing with humans here, that it's not what I think is right or what I think should be done, or my expectations, but that this is a human being, this is a whole human being that I'm talking about or talking to, with their own goals and aspirations or lack thereof, and so the ability to hopefully inspire them to know that.
Speaker 2:Two basic things I think that I try to keep in my mind is that you're worthy of love and you're capable of giving love. And when I keep that forefront in my mind, I find that my expectations and all that is really kind of tempered, because my goal is not to make you achieve a certain thing or anything like that. My goal is to show you that you're worthy of love and that when you break it all the way down to that, that's pretty easy for me to do. It takes a lot of kids, like you mentioned, consistent effort, but the effort is not monumental to show someone that they're loved and that their love is worth having. I want you to love me. I want you to be a part of my life, not too hard to do.
Speaker 3:I love that, ben, that was so eloquently and beautifully put. I think that the first thing that popped into my mind when Michael suggested managing expectations is I was like man expect nothing, appreciate everything. I keep it so simple just for myself, in that if I expect nothing in every situation whether it's other people in recovery, people in recovery, the world around us expect nothing, appreciate everything it instantly flips the script. For me, it's through constant practice that I eventually got to that place. It didn't start there, but probably started with building a shit ton of resentments and having to work for those. I eventually got to boil it down to this one thing Every time I'm in a situation whether it's overdose awareness day, whether it's somebody overdramatizing the recovery world and scaring people away from things expect nothing, appreciate everything, give them permission to ask questions and then appreciate whatever comes out of that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that. You guys both said that I also have to check myself because I'll have the expectation of people hey, if we've already told you this once or twice, why don't you understand it? Or why can't you get it, being able to understand it and again bringing it back to it's. Everybody is different. That kind of seeds me into with you guys in the world, because both LB and Rashad they're boots on the ground in the field, talking with not only people in recovery but people that are not in recovery from drug and alcohol addiction.
Speaker 1:What is it like for you guys on a day in and day out, when you're talking with the normal human being that ask the same questions to a level of frustration where you're like, wow, I know that you know that this is a disease, or the way that people might stigmatize treatment. There's all these different perceptions of are we really saving people or are we really putting them through Groundhog's Day of Treatment? I'm curious. People have those expectations. If you're going to treatment, you should get better. But when they keep going in and out, in and out, what does that look like? How do you guys, from a professional standpoint, how are you able to navigate that in a loving and kind way. Thank you.
Speaker 3:I mean, recovery is not linear. There is no quick fix. I know that I find myself having those conversations with families all the time, working in treatment. Especially is that they are frustrated and I feel that I feel where they're coming from. My family felt that with me. I felt it personally when I went to treatment 11 times before I got it, but I got it and it took time.
Speaker 3:Not everybody's story is gonna be the same. Not everybody's treatment process is gonna be the same. I'll say it again recovery is not linear and there is no quick fix. This is a rest of your life tuition and ordeal and there is no magic pill that can fix it.
Speaker 3:And these things take time and I often end up telling the family these are the ways in which you can hold boundaries, these are the ways in which you can unconditionally love your family member, even through aggravation and resentment. Just do not give up. Yeah, do not give up. And it's hard for me to even feel frustrated, honestly, because they don't know. So I feel like it would be ignorant of me to be frustrated because they are not living what we are living in, the active addiction, day to day. They can only speak from their own experience of living from the family member's side and so I can't get frustrated with them, because my family went through that and I watched them go through it and I watched the trust have to be built back so slowly and all of those pieces goes into that. So it's that constant reminder to myself of be kind, always educate, acknowledge, validate.
Speaker 2:I think I always have to remember those of us with sustained recovery. We're the exception, not the rule. I think a lot of times we think about it opposite, but we're the exception, we're the miracles in this world, and so that's why it becomes so important, I think, for us to continue to do the work, to continue to have these conversations. We're proof that the miracle can happen, but we are the miracle. This is not the norm. The norm, the numbers will tell us. The story doesn't end this way, and so it's so important to keep that in mind, I think, when you're dealing with those frustrations, when I was in treatment and it's the exact opposite story, I'll be I was in treatment and I remember telling one of the texts.
Speaker 2:I was like I don't think this works. And he said why you say that? And I was like well, everybody here has been here several times before, and if this worked, they wouldn't keep coming back. And he said if that's important to you, you be. That Is, you have the opportunity to be that for this community, to be a one and done. You do it and not that. I don't know that that'll be my story, but so far it is, and so I think it became a responsibility to show that the miracle can happen. But it's absolutely a miracle. It's not the norm.
Speaker 1:We said before we started recording like LBs, like sometimes we'll have moments of dropping gold and Rashad. Well, you just said even I was like oh my God, I have not thought of it that way and I don't even know how long that we are the miracles and that's not the norm. I'm so grateful that you said that because I think, like you said, when we're immersed in it every day, I have that expectation. It should be more common for people to get in recovery LBs like how can we get frustrated when they're not in it? People that are in this field, they're not in it every day, so they don't see everything that we see. Oh, that was so great. I appreciate that being said, because I will fault myself for being oh, why don't they get it? Then I'm like wait a second, michael. It's not quote unquote normal to get sober.
Speaker 2:The exception. It's 100% the exception, and to sustain it, to sustain recovery, is a miracle. I never thought I would be here Sometimes today. I don't think I'll. It's a miracle and I can't expect that of you. I can be an example, I can be open and sharing it, but most of all, what I open with it's about loving. Nobody wants to be a part of a thing that tears them down. Nobody wants to be a part of that, and so I think it's my responsibility in the community to be something that people want to be a part of, to be tolerant and loving and caring.
Speaker 3:What you just said, rashad, reminded me of a situation I had last year at Overdose Fairness Day, where I was speaking to a group of people, most of which are not in recovery, and it took place in a public forum, public space, and I remember it was like, okay, I need to boil my story down to something so quick, but I need to see me as a human being instantly. And so I did my story very differently for the first time in that space and when I got up there and opened with my name's LB. I'm an alcoholic addict in recovery and I wasn't born and brought into this world as a little girl dreaming to grow up to be a drug addict. Like when I said that, I remember watching people in the crowd as they're roaming about picking up things from booths.
Speaker 3:They all stop and turn around. She was a little girl once. It's like I instantly connected with those people in the crowd that were like, oh my gosh, that's right. At one time she wasn't just a drug addict or this tattoo, bleached, blonde, crazy looking person up there on this stage talking out to the world about these things. Like the kid once, she was a baby. She had dreams, she had hopes, and being a drug addict wasn't one of them.
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and it was like that was the first time I'd ever. Usually we're sharing our story with people in recovery, right? That? Sharing experience, strength and hope that's our lingo, that's our jam, we know how to do it. And when you're speaking to people that know nothing of the world that you're coming from, it's like sharing those elements, lets them get a peek into what it was like as a kid, before this came into my life, and that I am a human being and it's really giving them kind of that permission to see me differently.
Speaker 3:And it goes into that like whole stigma and labeling. And I'm so much more than that. I'm no different from you or anybody else. I firmly believe I was born an alcoholic addict and even as a kid I exhibited symptoms of untreated alcoholism from insensitivity. My mom will tell you that I was a holy terror, holy irritable, restless, discontent and uncomfortable in my own skin, long before substances came into my life. But yeah, I am more than just that label of alcoholic addict. I am more than just the stigma of addiction and what I did in addiction.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'd love to tag you LB, would had someone asked me they're like your years into this, why do you still identify as an addict and alcoholic?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I was like well for the guy who has three days I can't get to a place like sustained recovery and no longer associate with this thing that I am. It's the idea of what you're saying like right. Talk about the whole being. That is me. From all those things, I'm that little boy, I'm successful, I'm a troublemaker, all of these things. I'm not just one of them, and somebody needs to see that part of me.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean, especially even as a person of color in this space. Somebody needs to see me as both an alcoholic and as an alcoholic in recovery. They need to see that both parts can happen and do happen. So yeah, I agree with that 100%.
Speaker 1:I love this. This is why they're here. It's just so good. Okay, lb was going right into what I really wanted to tackle the stigma and the shame that is always associated with drug and alcohol addiction and what I find so interesting, especially on National Overdose Awareness Day and then also National Recovery Month, it's like sweet, the world is paying attention and it's the cool thing to talk about for a month and then for a day in August, all of this hype for our disease, and then it's like the rest of the 11 months and 30 days we don't exist or there's not this passion behind it.
Speaker 1:What I've noticed on National Recovery Month and on Overdose Awareness Day it's easier to talk about it because people are like, oh, this is a buzz that's going around, so cool, I can talk about it and people know what's going on. If I try to bring it up in April or May, they're like, oh, anyone talking about that? And so for me, I'm passionate about this shit and I want people so badly to understand that it isn't a choice, because there's still so many people that are you sure it's not a choice? Managing, I think, my expectations around. Hey, how do I stay so passionate?
Speaker 1:It's hard for me to be around people that aren't in recovery, because I get this blank look, because I feel like deep down they want to understand it but they don't. And it's so scary and they're like I don't even know where to start to ask questions, because I might ask something that's offensive. I might say something to Michael or Elby or Rashad that they're like oh, when in doubt, nothing you ask me is off the table. But you know, when it comes to again those managing the expectations of the world outside of us with stigma, the world outside of people in recovery, of that level of acceptance, how do you guys manage that? How do you guys keep that fire going?
Speaker 2:I think personally, I'm doing it literally right now. I talk about myself and my experiences, so that that way it doesn't sound or feel like I'm telling you this is the life you should live. I had a period where I was definitely living alcoholically but my life wasn't in shambles. So it definitely active addiction, but it's kind of a weird delineation. I remember seeing this out of my mouth I don't want to be one of those people who can't do anything Right. That was what I thought was going to be.
Speaker 2:Oh, my God, I'm so scared that I'm going to be one of those people that can't do anything.
Speaker 2:So I think a lot of this stigma and fear around it comes in people feeling like, first of all, if I learned too much about it, I might find out that I have this thing, and then, in the other part of it is they don't think about our lives. I can't speak for the people I would imagine. Right, I know I did. I didn't think about my life being this, having fun with people, that I enjoy being around and talking and laughing and enjoying life. I literally thought it was oh, those are the people who don't get to do anything.
Speaker 2:I don't know what they do, but when they're not at work. I had no idea that there was a life so fulfilling and full of purpose waiting for me on this side. I had no idea. I thought if you're not drinking and drugging, you were boring. I don't know what those people do.
Speaker 2:So today to like stay away from that and to allow my story to be able to penetrate or even, just as I mentioned earlier, right the example of my life and try to do a lot with how I live my life and just be by being my authentic self, so I don't have to say a lot for people to go. I want to be a part of either you or I want to be a part of how you're living your life. How are you doing this, which opens up the door to have a more in depth conversation.
Speaker 3:And my God, I have so many things blowing off in my brain right now. I just like, like Michael talking about passion, and my brain is just exploding in so many directions right now. So when you both mentioned the word choice and choosing, and especially in talking to these people that we run into every single day, really, that don't know what we do on a daily basis or don't know what recovery is, or don't know how sobriety looks and I agree wholeheartedly with Rashad, because I know that I felt this too as a 15 year old going to treatment for the first time it was like, oh, if you tell me too much, I'm going to have to identify as this thing that I know because, like, I clearly have a problem and I was told at 15 years old that I was an alcoholic and it was like that's impossible, I'm a child. But so when people will come and they will ask questions like that, like could this just be a choice, or somebody could have a period of abstinence and then try moderate drinking, well, those of us now call us synonymous know the book talks about those things, but those of us that have never cracked that book open which there's way more of those people than there are of us that have.
Speaker 3:Make the choice. Just try it. This is your life, not mine. I can only share my experience and that's where, like my brain was blowing up because you were talking about, I can only speak for myself. I can only share my experience and what you take from that is what it is and but like that's really it.
Speaker 3:If you think it's a choice, try. Try to choose. I wish you the best. Let me know how that goes for you. If you're just sober, curious, then try to choose not drinking for a month. See how that goes. There are so many different facets of what recovery looks like these days that they're like kind of really like nothing's off the table. I mean, like what we learned in the recovery coaching world is like if you say you're in recovery, then you are, no matter what that looks like. So there really are no stupid questions. They're sure there's common misconceptions about people in recovery, but there is no more black and white thinking and this is recovery, this isn't. So choose, talk about it, ask questions. You don't even have many expectations to manage when it's that free to flow and be.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh, can you do. That was sick too. Oh, you guys, here we go, I love. I love that you just said. How do you have to manage expectations when it's not black and white or when there's so many options? It's kind of a gift.
Speaker 3:Did I just blow up our whole topic on this podcast?
Speaker 1:No, this was great. People don't know that. There's still people to think the recovery is 12 step AA and yes, that is my chosen path, 100%. I don't know that, but, like you said, I'll be like. There are so many more ways.
Speaker 2:Oh, I think, for our people in recovery. I think we ask a lot in terms of stigma and not wanting to be labeled. I think we have a responsibility to not label and stigmatize people not in recovery. Also, so that with as they ask, that we give them the freedom and the ability to get asked those questions without judging them for it, right? I don't know a lot of people in my circle to do that. I want to say I think it's important. I know that I go out of my way It'll be mentioned several times. I go out of my way to make sure I answer those questions, no matter how inane or innocuous or even kind of seemingly provoking these questions might be. I go out of my way to answer them and to answer them no matter how many times I've heard them, so that those people who are curious and who may have a problem can feel comfortable asking someone about this thing.
Speaker 2:That I have this disease that I have. I'm happy to talk about it and I think it's important that we keep that forefront in the minds.
Speaker 1:It's okay, I'll stop calling them normies. I'm just kidding, I'm sorry, I'm sorry.
Speaker 3:Have fun at this. We still have to have our own little jokes and it's not that we're judging them or don't love them just as much for exactly who they are. We have to have our own sense of humor about it, because if we didn't laugh as much as we did, we would cry a lot all the time.
Speaker 3:All the time Because there is we do deal with so much sadness and so much death and loss and struggle and that desperation in this world. We do. It's just we have to have our own little things like that, jokes about these, and we can't be kind and compassionate in most all conversations. But if I didn't have a sense of humor I don't think I would have made it this far. Yeah.
Speaker 2:No, if you had a sense of humor you have I wouldn't have made it this far. You guys, this is great.
Speaker 1:I'm going to bring up a hot topic. I don't think I'll get heated, but I get passionate about it. I need you guys to talk about this, please, and have something to say about it. Okay, when it comes to the expectations of workforce, what makes me the saddest is when we have people come to treatment doctors, lawyers, pilots, judges that here they are and they are trying to get better. They're getting better and they want their life to be better and they're in recovery. But damn, people can't know that they're in recovery, because if the people on the plane knew the pilots and alcoholic, or if your lawyer is a drug addict and an alcoholic, then the plane's going down or there you're going to lose your case, and so what saddens me is that these people and I think it's because it's also top of mind for me, because we have some of these people in treatment with us currently they're like how do I still have a job that I love, but I can't be who I am. I can't actually embrace this new life in recovery.
Speaker 1:When it comes to stigma, we guys were talking about managing expectations of the world I will just say of the fear that is involved with people that don't struggle with drug and alcoholism that they so-called would have if the rest of their company knew that. Oh, he went to treatment. Oh, this police officer, this first responder, went to treatment. I guess because I'm also on this side and that's where I would love your guys' thoughts on this, and maybe mine will change after you guys talk. But for me it's like can't you just see that this person's trying to get better and they're still going to do their job? And why do you want them to keep it a secret? Why does getting help and getting sober have to be a secret so that what your company is safe? If you're trying to get rid of stigma and you are still the problem for the stigma, then how are we going to create any movement in this? It boils my blood, Sorry. I would love your thoughts. We still have a lot of work to do.
Speaker 3:We do. I mean, that's obvious. Nobody said that we have arrived and all the problems are solved. Right, we have a lot of work to do in a lot of different areas as human beings in a society.
Speaker 3:I've had the same conversations, michael, with people that are teachers, pilots, whatever, and they'll be like, but I don't want to be you in recovery. Great, you don't have to be, but you also don't have to lie. Still be authentic. And you don't have to be in everybody's face with your recovery and sobriety story as the pilot. You're not getting over the damn intercom going Hello, today I'm so and so, and I'm a pilot, I'm an alcoholic. Nobody's asking you to do that. Nobody's saying that you have to tell absolutely everyone.
Speaker 3:But if you just show up authentically in the spaces that you need to whether it's the rooms, whether it's smart, whatever pathway you have, great, just show up your best there. And then in the workforce you're always going to have people that are going to point and label and whatever. And to me it's a challenge. You know you just show up like you know you do, and they will see that, in most cases, if people in recovery are the most ethical, responsible and resourceful human beings you'll ever meet. They'll come to that conclusion on your own and it takes each one of us one day at a time oh, it's pretty cliche, but really one day at a time, one workplace at a time, one career path at a time, to really kind of have that ripple effect of changing people's minds.
Speaker 3:And if you show up like a piece of shit in recovery then you're going to make problems for the rest of us because it's not healthy to live that way. So I have a lot to say on this topic. Michael and I did an entire podcast about like people not in recovery in the workforce and what that looks like. But I really think there is no you have to do all or nothing. It goes back to what we touched on and you know you show up as best you can, you do what works for you and as long as you're authentic and you're not like looking at somebody and just flat out lying, because that stuff doesn't sit well with us usually, you know, put dishonest. If we lie, it usually leads to really bad things.
Speaker 2:I started this guy. He told me he's like yeah, but usually we get. He's telling me about his morning routine. He's telling me he wakes up and makes breakfast and it comes out that he sleeps in the nude.
Speaker 1:And the birthday suit.
Speaker 2:So you do all this stuff naked in the morning? Yeah, I don't know Pretty big windows at your house. He goes yeah, I go. Well, aren't you worried about people looking at you naked? He goes out in my house. They're the ones who should feel uncomfortable. What's the sense? And if you're looking in my house, you should be feeling weird that you see me naked. I see you weird. That's how I view recovery Doing me. If you feel weird about me being an alcoholic, that's you.
Speaker 2:I guess you got to feel weird. Now you know what I mean. That's not on me, I'm sorry you feel that way.
Speaker 3:That's weird for you.
Speaker 2:That must be weird for you and we sit earlier, right. I didn't come to that easy. I came to that idea of sitting in treatment. It was that contemplative state where I'm like I gotta make a decision. And I'm like well, what are people going to think of me? I was this hearty, hearty guy and now I'm going to come back like sober.
Speaker 1:What and how am I?
Speaker 2:going to do this and I had this beautiful thought that I keep with me to this day, that anybody who would really kill me for doing something to save me, my life doesn't care about me. They don't care about me at all. If it was running, if it was working out regularly, if it was eating better, they'd be like oh my God, I'm so happy for you. It's been fortunate that we look at recovery and sobriety and go, oh, you're one of those. Oh, I thought different. I'm doing a thing that's saving my life. And if you're not on board with that and we probably have no business being friends or associated because you don't care about me, this is like literally my life. I'm sorry that makes you uncomfortable. I don't think it's easy to come by. I don't think that mine happens overnight. It's hard and it sucks, that it happens in the workplace it does. But yeah, man, I just don't think those people really care about me. I think this is really Seriously.
Speaker 1:I love that you said that, and I think that there's a lot to be said about what you just said, because, it's true, they don't criticize you for working out or changing your diet, but oh, if you're not drinking, they're like, oh, we're not going to talk to you at the same time. Yeah, water fountain, water fountain. You know, you got to fill your water up for work. Okay, find the break room. Okay, we're not going to talk to you in the break room.
Speaker 2:She Nope, I'm just being full.
Speaker 1:I'm just being full. This is the water fountain I do, I was going to get flabby.
Speaker 2:I was going to get flabby. I was going to get flabby.
Speaker 1:I was going to get flabby. I knew I was going to get flabby for saying that. I totally knew I was going to get flabby for saying that. Thank you very much.
Speaker 1:So, in summation of like, because we've touched on a lot of different themes here, but at the end of the day, like what I would love to hear from both of you, if there was something that you could say, whether it is like to the person that's listening to this that is not in recovery from drug and alcohol addictions, when it comes to managing expectations of a person, managing expectations of a person in recovery, because sometimes there are those people that are like oh, you went to treat me, like I said you got sober, oh, you're relapsed, You're going to die. What would you say is a kind suggestion of like hey, this is what I would have to say to any of you that have these feelings or these expectations of how you think people should be when they get sober or if they relapse, or any of the things to kind of help them be like okay, like let's not try to have judgment, but let's have curiosity.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean I feel like I've got three little bullet points from kind of the things that I said throughout this whole episode, which is to expect nothing, appreciate everything, unrealistic expectations and quick fixes kill. Summon up real, real, quick and easy. Unrealistic expectations. Quick fixes of people kill people and balance hope and realism.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think we're all humans. I keep coming back to the idea that we're all humans, incapable of mistakes and redemption. Right that you're worthy of love and capable of giving love, and the person who you're in this with is worthy of love and capable of giving love. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:This is how it starts. You know, managing expectations is conversations, is just choosing to talk about it. So if you're listening to this and you're kind of weirded out about alcoholism or drug addiction, just know that you can reach out to any of us and we'll talk to you about it. There are people that are more than willing to talk to you. And if you're in recovery and you're listening to this, being able to also have that compassion for people that aren't and continue to just like grant grace to know, how LB and Rashad both said, the work is not over. We do have a long way to go, but the point is is that we choose to show up. We have to continue to show up because if change is going to happen, it doesn't just happen Obviously overnight. I wish it would. It takes planning those seeds. Rashad, if people wanted to get a hold of you or they wanted to find you and connect with you, how can people find you?
Speaker 2:On the socials, always at Rashad Sutton, Instagram, LinkedIn and Facebook.
Speaker 1:We LB, we have your information, but you might as well just say it again to the world.
Speaker 3:When in doubt, you can find me in Rashad's posts and Michael's posts. We're always on each other in each other's stories, so look for me there, but you can always find me at LBBurk Altar, instagram, linkedin, facebook, all the things.
Speaker 1:Guys, this is how we do. Thank you, rashad and LB. Thank you for your time. I am so grateful.
Speaker 3:We need another episode of like a continuing educational conversation we do.
Speaker 1:All right, Before we part ways, I want to remind you that help is available. If you or someone you know is in need of assistance, please reach out to Harmony Foundation at 970-586-4491. Just remember that together we build better humans. All right, you guys, we'll see you next week.