You know that moment when you finally realized you were holding your breath, waiting for someone else to change? That's what our enlightening conversation with Olivia feels like - a real, raw exploration of expectations and relationships in the context of substance use disorder. Listen in as Olivia shares her deeply personal experiences of grappling with expectations and resentments, all while navigating the choppy waters of a loved one's addiction. She emphasizes the art of managing our own mental health while extending support to those in recovery. Olivia's insights bring a new dynamic to the table - finding similarities, not differences, as the key to building healthier relationships.
We've all been there, feeling lonely, misunderstood, and perhaps even judged. Our conversation with Olivia underscores the healing power of community, especially for those touched by addiction. Olivia shares her journey, highlighting how a supportive community has been pivotal in her healing process. The beauty of a safe circle, a space that allows individuals to freely express their feelings without fear of judgment, is truly transformative. Olivia is a source of strength, offering valuable advice for family members struggling with unrealistic expectations and reminding us all that recovery is a journey. Tune in for an episode packed with wisdom, empathy, and the importance of managing expectations to support our loved ones on their expedition towards recovery.
For over 50 years, Harmony Foundation has worked as a nonprofit to serve those seeking recovery from substance addictions. Our residential and intensive outpatient programs are in a collaborative and respectful treatment environment with multiple specialty tracks offering additional support. Our main campus is nestled on a 43-acre campus in the Rocky Mountains just outside of Estes Park, Colorado, that promotes physical, emotional, and spiritual healing. With one of the most robust alumni programs in the county, clients remain connected and empowered for a lifelong journey of recovery.
For more information about Harmony Foundation, please visit:
www.harmonyfoundationinc.com
You know that moment when you finally realized you were holding your breath, waiting for someone else to change? That's what our enlightening conversation with Olivia feels like - a real, raw exploration of expectations and relationships in the context of substance use disorder. Listen in as Olivia shares her deeply personal experiences of grappling with expectations and resentments, all while navigating the choppy waters of a loved one's addiction. She emphasizes the art of managing our own mental health while extending support to those in recovery. Olivia's insights bring a new dynamic to the table - finding similarities, not differences, as the key to building healthier relationships.
We've all been there, feeling lonely, misunderstood, and perhaps even judged. Our conversation with Olivia underscores the healing power of community, especially for those touched by addiction. Olivia shares her journey, highlighting how a supportive community has been pivotal in her healing process. The beauty of a safe circle, a space that allows individuals to freely express their feelings without fear of judgment, is truly transformative. Olivia is a source of strength, offering valuable advice for family members struggling with unrealistic expectations and reminding us all that recovery is a journey. Tune in for an episode packed with wisdom, empathy, and the importance of managing expectations to support our loved ones on their expedition towards recovery.
For over 50 years, Harmony Foundation has worked as a nonprofit to serve those seeking recovery from substance addictions. Our residential and intensive outpatient programs are in a collaborative and respectful treatment environment with multiple specialty tracks offering additional support. Our main campus is nestled on a 43-acre campus in the Rocky Mountains just outside of Estes Park, Colorado, that promotes physical, emotional, and spiritual healing. With one of the most robust alumni programs in the county, clients remain connected and empowered for a lifelong journey of recovery.
For more information about Harmony Foundation, please visit:
www.harmonyfoundationinc.com
Hey, hey, welcome to season two, episode 28 of Monday State of Mind, brought to you by Harmony Foundation. My name is Michael Mazel and I am your host. What is up, world? I am so excited to be here on this amazing morning. Stretch it out, get ready for this episode. It's going to change your life. I actually feel like every single episode that is produced here on Monday State of Mind changes people's lives in some way, shape or form, even if it's just a titch, or you might even have a total career shift after you listen to some of these episodes. Regardless, thank you for being here.
Speaker 1:I am so grateful to have this amazing guest here with me today. Let me tell you about this guest. All of you on the podcast that are seasoned listeners and, if this is your first time, LB Burke-Hulter has been on a couple of times and she is one of my very good friends. She introduced me to this amazing human that is going to just spat some amazing goodness your way with me today. I'm so excited to talk about expectations because I'm telling you if there's one thing I know about this human in the short time that I've known her, she doesn't sugarcoat anything. She's very to the point. So, ladies and gents, please welcome Olivia.
Speaker 2:Hi, thank you. I'm excited to be here. I have worked in behavioral health for a long time and struggled with my own behavioral health and family members struggling with their behavioral health, so I'm just excited to talk about something that I have definitely worked on a lot in my life.
Speaker 1:Yeah, expectations, olivia. I'd love to start off with the biggest thing that I've seen, even for myself, when it comes to family or people in addiction treatment, is the expectations lead to resentments for me, they lead to me building an unnecessary resentment. They lead to me putting something on somebody. That's not fair because I am not the creator of their reality, and so I would love to just hear your experience with when you have had these expectations. What has that done to you just from a mental health perspective, when you realize, wow, I shouldn't have had these.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think we live in a world where there are expectations that are beyond what most people are able to accomplish and I think that really gets magnified with substance use and having family members who struggle with that and the understanding of how behavioral health care works, and I think that people think, oh, somebody went to 30 days of treatment, they're well now or they're cured now, and that's not the case. It's a lifelong journey of growth and learning about yourself and learning about how you interact with others and as a family member, I see that put on. I have a lot of family members who have struggled with substance use disorder and that getting put on them and my personal experiences of okay, well, this person isn't well yet or isn't well enough to me yet. That's not my decision. My decision is is this person aligned with me in my values and can I be around them and does it tax my mental health too much to have a relationship at this stage? Or how do I support this person at this stage? Or where do I meet this person? Where they are. This is for me and my experience.
Speaker 2:My closest relationship is with my brother and the things that happen to us, and they're not it's not one to one.
Speaker 2:He had experiences, I had experiences. It's not a competition, but there's a lot of overlap and so there's a lot of pain that I have felt and pain that and shame and just brokenness inside of me. That is very similar to how he feels. And just because I didn't end up needing to go into treatment for substance use disorder doesn't mean that on the inside I don't have those same shame feelings.
Speaker 2:And so being able to approach it in that regard that yeah, we didn't do it the same way, but that doesn't mean that our hurt feelings aren't still in there Us as children aren't still in there that are struggling, and how do we support each other and give each other that sense of community when we've had those experiences? There's not many other people who have lived in my household with my parents that know the things that have happened to be able to say, hey, I know I present it differently on the outside, but on the inside this is exactly the same, and we did family therapy together and talked through those things and again, there was a lot of differences but there's a lot of similarities at the same time. So being able to understand that that thing that hurts him, that makes him angry or triggers him or makes him want to drink. It's the same thing that hurts me and triggers me.
Speaker 2:And so that was a really powerful time when we were able to come together on that.
Speaker 1:I love that you said that, especially from an expectation point, who are we to say where they're going to be? I also love that you said you get to also manage your mental health while they're in that process of healing and also your healing as well. The thing I love the most that you said was, even though he has the substance use disorder and you're the family member because you didn't have to go to treatment, look for the similarities. We all have differences, but if we can all look at, hey, we all have emotion, we all have pain, just because they're the ones that are to the world, are struggling. You as a family member is struggling too, and so the expectation piece is huge for you guys. I love that you said it's like look for the similarities.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think with that too, when you can find those similarities and get back a relationship or develop a new relationship because I will say I never got back the relationship that we had, I don't want to get back that relationship because it wasn't healthy and being able to develop a new relationship and, with this being said, things aren't perfect and he is an in recovery right now and I've had to put hard boundaries on that but I think about I have an aunt who also struggled with drug addiction and she wasn't able to get back with her siblings and I have a great relationship with her and I see from the outside how triggering it was for her to do the work and them not do the work, and how it was like shining a spotlight on their dysfunction when they wanted to compartmentalize it.
Speaker 2:They didn't want to think about it, they didn't want to deal with it and her not really seeing that and understanding that and being like why do my siblings hate me? Well, it's because you did the work, because you're a spotlight on what is wrong in their life. Why would they want to have a relationship with you when they want to sweep that under the rug? And that's their choice and that's okay, but it doesn't mean that they're rejecting you as a person. And I think a lot of times the shame with dealing with the substance use disorder and feeling that shame that it's my fault and that's what I think is really important to my family when in reality your family was kind of already like this your route was substances and their route probably was also substances but, it wasn't.
Speaker 2:It wasn't a problem using air quotes there. I think that being able to pull back and say, why am I having a hard time with this? Why is this person who's working on themselves, who's never gonna be perfect because we're human beings, no one's gonna be perfect, no one's gonna say the right thing all the time, you're not gonna get out of treatment and then you're the CEO of a Fortune 500 company randomly, like magically, it just happens after 30 days. There's a lot of work and being able to identify that shame in yourself and say, hey, I need to do this work for myself. I need to figure out what's going on with me and knowing that it's okay to not be okay, and do the work to try to figure things out.
Speaker 1:It's true, it's the expectation of. It's not just cause, it is a family disease and it is about it's not just expecting that they do the work. You yourself, olivia, have been gifted the opportunity. I'll say it's not that you have to do it, you've been gifted that opportunity to be able to do the work. So it's not just I expect you to get better, it's like, well, they also have that expectation on you too. And so now I will just ask you fast forward as you've continued to do the work on yourself and thank you for talking about your brother and just even mentioning that right now he's not in recovery, and that can be part of people's stories Since you've chosen to show up and do the work, what has that done for you? When it comes to relinquishing any expectation of this is what I expect him to be, this is how I expect him to recover, and how have you been able to shift it from being expectation I'll say acceptance.
Speaker 2:I think that for a while and there was times where it was like, oh, why isn't he doing this, or why is he thinking like that, or whatever it may be I think there came a point where it especially with him not in recovery now that I just said, I want him to be the best he can be for himself, his best version of him, for whatever that looks like in this moment not the version that I can see of him that is thriving and amazing and everything's perfect, but someone who is going to work and paying their bills and even if that doesn't happen, I want him to be whatever he needs to be in that moment.
Speaker 2:And sometimes that's someone who hates me. Sometimes I'm the villain and I know that that's his disease. I know that that's him not being able to take accountability for himself because he's in a survival mode. He's not able to take that accountability and it gets frustrating Don't get me wrong and it hurts my feelings, but I have to pull back and say he's not doing this to me. He's hurting himself and his pain inside of him and the shame he feels inside of him is it's easier for him to live in this moment, in this day, and I'm the bad guy and I hate it. I don't want that, but I understand that that's a survival method. I understand that that's how he's getting through the day and that's okay.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that, and as much as it hurts, I love that you're able to see that. And so what does community look like for you two, olivia, I always like to get curious around it for family members, especially if you have your moments where you want to scream or you want to like shake the shit out of your brother. Instead of having those moments and you probably still have those who do you reach out to and is community a part of your healing process, with expectations?
Speaker 2:My community is a huge part of my expectations. Bouncing ideas off of my friends, I am very fortunate, and if you are people out there listening who are not in recovery that don't need to go into treatment or be in recovery to get a group of friends who are in recovery is amazing.
Speaker 2:I would say 85% of my friends, or maybe more, are all in recovery and the support of that community is so amazing. It also has a perspective that I don't have. I can say experiences that I've had with my family or what's going on with me, or how I'm feeling or the shame that I'm feeling, and they'll be like not, that's bullshit, you don't need to feel like that or what that person's doing is not okay, and it's such a direct realness and I know it comes from lived experience and the work that they've done on themselves and I'm just like, oh yeah, it snaps me back into reality. I understand a different perspective that I need so badly and it's so unbelievably helpful.
Speaker 1:If any of you guys listen to Monday, stay to mind I preach community. I preach community.
Speaker 1:I'm not a preacher but, I preach community, I preach connection, so that, just like you said, olivia, we can't do this alone. I mean we can, but it really sucks and it's horrible, and you guys. That is why it is so important to find people that you can just say what you need to say, unabashedly, so that your feelings don't leave you feeling a certain way. If anything, having that community and being able to say what you need to say, like you should be able to find freedom, right, olivia, like there's a sense of freedom that happens for all of us when we find a safe circle where we can be like. This is what's going on in my life and I need help with a solution.
Speaker 2:And I will say, as someone who has gone to a lot of different AA meetings, na meetings, cda meetings with my family members to support them, I love that perspective of that group of people who have been struggling together, that they understand each other's pain, and I tear up every time I'm in a meeting like that because it is so powerful to me and to be able to be a part of that, whether it's through Al-Anon and I will say I have not done Al-Anon, but I think about it often and will do it eventually I think having that community where it's judgment free, it's yeah, things have been awful and I've done shitty things and I've experienced terrible things.
Speaker 2:And being able to be with a group of people where they are right now I'm going to forgive myself for this and be able to relate to other people who have experienced the same experiences and feel the same shame. That it's okay and to have a cohort of friends that have done this work and go to these meetings all the time, that are like my own little mini AA group and there's no judgment. I could say whatever crazy thing that I'm thinking or whatever is upsetting me or is hurting me, and I get their feedback on it and it's beautiful.
Speaker 1:Amen, sister, amen. This will not be the last time Olivia gives us with her knowledge and her wisdom on Monday State of Mind. Olivia, I love your perspective shift for the family member. I love just how you shared so openly about what you're growing through and that you have a solution and that your solution is like rooted in looking at it and also rooted in community. And one last question for you If there is any family member out there that is struggling hard with expectations, especially like why aren't they staying sober? Why aren't they doing this? Why aren't they doing that, what is one thing or two things you would say to that family member that is digging their heels in or is super struggling with the expectation piece of their loved one not getting this thing the way they want them to get it?
Speaker 2:This is going to be a little long winded and I'm not a parent so I can't speak to this. When a baby is born, parents have this expectation and idea of what that baby is going to grow up and be like. Like, oh, she's going to be this or she's going to be that, and he's going to be so happy and so successful and so perfect and everything's going to be wonderful. And that never happens. I mean, they can be happy, they can be successful, but the idea that a parent has in their head is never what that child ends up being, even if there's similarities and I think that that is true at all stages of life with anyone that there's this expectation as a family member, that, oh, this person like my cousin, who hasn't gotten their shit together, isn't going to. They're going to, it's all going to be great next week, it's everything's going to be fine or Whatever. That unrealistic expectation is that we put on other people because we see the best in them, we know those amazing qualities that they have, we know how much we love them, we know that they have to give to the world. And I would say to a family member that is struggling, whose family member isn't showing up the way that they think they should be or isn't in recovery yet or it's not sticking.
Speaker 2:Relapses happen. People return to use. Those behaviors are ingrained in people's minds. It's like trying to change your eating habits or trying to start a different exercise routine. That's not easy. That's not something that you do overnight. That's something you maybe try it for a week and it doesn't stick. Or you try doing something different and then that works for a week or two days, and then the shame you feel when you aren't able to stick to that keto diet or you're not able to do these certain things. That it's the same thing, it's bigger, it's their whole life.
Speaker 2:And be patient, be supportive and it's okay not to have a relationship with that person in that moment. And it is hard and it makes you feel like garbage and you feel guilty. But you're doing the best thing that you can do for yourself to preserve your own mental health and to not enable that individual to continue doing behaviors that you're making acceptable. And it's hard I know this firsthand, living through it in this moment, and it's not what I want to do, it's not who I want to be, it's not the relationship that I want to have, but I feel safer in myself and am able to work on my own mental health and my own self so that when that time does come and I believe that it will come that I can show up for that person and give my all.
Speaker 2:It takes time, there's so many things that go into it, but and I could really talk about it for hours and hours and hours but at the end of the day, you have to do something to take care of yourself first. Yes, before you can save somebody else and you can't save somebody else, they have to save themselves and then you're there to help pick up some pieces and get them on the right path to a treatment center or wherever it may be, or whatever it may be, or being there to pick them up from the treatment center and drive them to therapy, or whatever it is. You have to take care of yourself first.
Speaker 1:Thank you, olivia. You are a gift. Your vulnerability is a gift to all of the family members and I'll even say you know people that are in recovery are probably cheering you on for saying what you're saying about this as well. So just thank you for your time. I am so grateful and, like I said earlier, this is not the last time Olivia is going to be here. Olivia, if people wanted to get ahold of you and follow you or connect with you over something that you said, is there a way they can get ahold of you that we can put in the show notes?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I have a new email address for my new position we will put it in the show notes.
Speaker 1:Olivia, this is how we do, and I know people are going to be affected in a myriad of ways from you today, and so thank you so much. This is how we do, thanks.
Speaker 2:Michael, I'm so excited to have been here. Thank you, Olivia.
Speaker 1:Before we part ways, I want to remind you that help is available. If you or someone you know is in need of assistance, please reach out to Harmony Foundation at 970-586-4491. Just remember that together we build better humans. All right, you guys, we'll see you next week.