Parenting Balance Podcast
Parenting Balance Podcast
019 Energy Psychology with Dr. Cynthia Higgins
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In this week's episode, we explore ENERGY HEALING as an alternative treatment that can be used to relieve anxiety among kids with ADHD. It is more popular for dealing with health issues, but is gaining traction in mental health. This is because energy healing is intended to induce relaxation and disconnection from many sources of fears. You can learn more about energy healing and find a practitioner here.
We invited an advocate and expert on this subject, Dr. Cynthia Higgins, who will share with us her personal journey on how she discovered energy therapy and her realization that it is an extension of science in the healing process, rather than a competition or a replacement.
Dr. Cynthia Higgins is an Integrative Psychiatrist, Motivational Speaker, and Practitioner of Energy Psychology. Drawing upon her 20 years of experience as a physician and principals of Energy Psychology, Dr Higgins possesses a number of eclectic skills. Whether she is serving as an integrative psychiatrist, meditation teacher or entrepreneur, her overall goal is to help others bring clarity to challenging experiences to promote strength and resiliency. Learn more about Dr. Higgins on her website here or schedule and appointment with her at her office in Sarasota, Florida by calling 941-378-9959. Her candles and sprays can be purchased on Etsy through her shop Work of Angles.
Here at the Parenting Balance Podcast, you'll find simple, science-based tools and tricks for parenting kids with ADHD or anxiety. Although we are both family therapists, this podcast is for informational purposes only and should not replace the guidance of a qualified professional. Join us as we debate and discuss our own experiences as parents of kids diagnosed with ADHD and anxiety and breakdown the latest research into easily digestible portions. We created this podcast to educate, inspire hope, explore new ideas and discover together what we know to be true: you are not alone, and finding a community of support can make all the difference. Please join our Parenting Balance Podcast Community here and sign up here to be the first in line for our new Modern Guide to Understanding Kids With ADHD mini-course.
Hi, everyone! Welcome to the Parenting Balance podcast. My name is Kelly Williams. I'm a licensed Clinical Social Worker and an ADHD parenting expert by experience. I'm here with my partner.
Teresa Vanpelt :Hi, I'm Teresa Vanpelt. I'm a licensed Mental Health Counselor and anxiety parenting expert by experience. And for the past 10 years, Kelly and I have had a family practice in Florida. This podcast is for parents who want to really understand what's going on with ADHD and anxiety so you can ditch the chaos and feel confident and happy again.
Kelly Williams :Dr. Cynthia Higgins is an Integrative Psychiatrist, Motivational Speaker and Practitioner of Energy Psychology. She's an active member of the Association for Comprehensive Energy Psychology and she offers integrative therapies at her practice in the spaceoflove.org, which is the therapy side of her company, which is called Work of Angels.
Teresa Vanpelt :Thank you so much for being here today, Dr. Higgins.
Dr. Cynthia Higgins :Thank you for inviting me!
Kelly Williams :I am so excited to talk to you today. Because it's so fun to be with like minded people and I think you and I have a lot in common in that we both kind of got started in the work of mental health in the traditional way, and then figured out that there must be something more to this, right? And so you have made the shift from doing traditional psychiatry, to creating a business that's based on an integrative model of psychiatry and energy work. Do I have that, right?
Dr. Cynthia Higgins :Yes, that's correct.
Kelly Williams :So I am super excited to hear all about it. Like, how did you? How did you come to realize the energy side of things? But maybe we could we could start with that question.
Dr. Cynthia Higgins :Certainly. I mean, I think that was more of a personal journey in the sense that, you know, all throughout my own childhood I was very sensitive to to energy. So I was very sensitive to the emotions of others. And so often I wonder, oh, my God, what's wrong with me? I mean, I went through this phase where I thought that there has to be something here and it. It was not until I found the organization, the Association for Comprehensive Energy Psychiatry or Psychology, that I recognized that there was an entire science behind this, behind the the energy healing the energy therapies, and they're not the neither for nor are they in competition to the science. It's simply an extension of that. And it explains, to me us in the totality, you know, we are so used to looking at ourselves, as, you know, either being healthy or being well, we don't realize that there are, there are phases in between. and we don't realize that everything is a vibration, you know, whether it's wellness where all of our body's organs and tissues are functioning optimally, or whether we're experiencing an issue, say a kidney infection, but everything has a certain vibration, and I can explain a little bit more about that. You know, how to how to describe energy medicine, and you know, what, you know, five minutes or less. We know that as physical beings, all of our cells, all of our organs, everything is vibrating, you know, our atoms, all of that. So when we have that, that vibration, it's why all of our liver cells stay with our liver cells because they're at the same vibration. Well, we create a field, a field of energy around us. And within this energy field, there are points where the energy goes out and in eastern philosophers, refer to them as the chakras. And there's a, we could talk about chakras all day, but I'll leave it as that.The use of this energy field is is one of the ways in which they our ancestors kept themselves alive long before we had written language. So it's very, very critical to who we are just as important as our internal nervous system, and energy psychology pretty much embraces the fact that that we have both. And that's the main difference between, say, energy psychology and traditional medicine. So this, this really, really drew me in as an explanation for why I was experiencing what I was experiencing in my own life. So kind of a long winded explanation.
Kelly Williams :But it is it's so interesting, you know, but like, as a regular person, I'm finding a provider who has the training, right? Because I feel like my personal experience has been that, you know, I get health insurance, and then there's a provider indicated on my insurance card, and I go and I see that person and then it's always the same, right? They asked you all the same questions and none of them have to do with wellness, by the way, right? It's a very illness based sort of a model like you're coming to see me something must be wrong, right? We don't go to see doctors because everything is right and we want to keep it going, right? And so there's been like that frustration, you know, right where I, how do we how do we help parents find integrative professionals like you if they were interested to do that right, right there?
Dr. Cynthia Higgins :Well, as I mentioned the ACEP Association for Comprehensive Energy Psychology on their website, which is acep.org.
Kelly Williams :acep.org, okay.
Dr. Cynthia Higgins :They actually have a practitioner, locator. Uh huh. And so, you know, with that, because that organization consists of scientists, physicians, therapists, social workers, Reiki healers.
Kelly Williams :Yeah, right. Right. Yeah. So let's talk a little bit about how this could be important information for parents of kids with ADHD, right? Because I believe that part of you know, I teach in my practice and on this podcast that ADHD is not a deficit of attention. It's not a brain with a deficit of attention. It's actually a brain that is paying too much attention to too many things. And part of that too much attention is that the avenue for feeling the energies is more open to a non neurotypical brain than it is to a neurotypical brain.
Dr. Cynthia Higgins :Exactly.
Kelly Williams :Yes, thank you for validating that, right. And so sometimes, like even my own neurologist, the neurologist that I take my kids to, he looked at me like, and when I explained this idea to him, you know, he just looked at me kind of sideways and was like, I don't know, maybe you need to go see a psychiatrist. Like, maybe you need to go see a psychiatrist. He said that.He's jumped and he said, watch out for quackery. Okay, right? So if I'm getting this reaction and I, you know, and it doesn't faze me but like, like a lot of parents who don't work in this field who don't do this all day long, who don't have the community that I have for myself through my practice, that would be very off putting, I mean, we're already in this vulnerable place where we, you know, these things are happening with our child, it's very difficult to, to deal with some of the behaviors were exhausted, right?
Dr. Cynthia Higgins :Yes.
Kelly Williams :So like the knowing like part of I feel like part of what activates the hyper activity is the extra energy in the environment that we cannot see.
Dr. Cynthia Higgins :It's the incoming, absolutely incoming. Okay. Incoming.
Kelly Williams :And how do you help parents or even from your philosophy right? What do we do to solve that problem and work with that?
Dr. Cynthia Higgins :Well, you're absolutely right. I'm referring to it as a philosophy because what we're needing is is a shift in the perspective around ADHD. And I wish that I could coined this phrase as an original, but I've read it somewhere else, you know, traditionally, ADHD is attention deficit hyperactivity disorder. Well, the the term by which I prefer to refer to it is attention dial into a higher dimension, because we are talking about people, children, especially, who are very, very perceptive. They're extremely intelligent, no matter what their grades may be. No it..
Kelly Williams :Oh, absolutely.
Dr. Cynthia Higgins :They are extremely intelligent. And it there's there's a great deal of overlap between my theories on on ADHD and on anxiety. Because it's the same thing, yes, that it's that incoming at a rate that is so overwhelming to the person that often particularly as children, they don't have the language to articulate what it is that they're feeling. And so they tend to be tend to be very sensitive, they tend to be very emotional. And I feel that, you know, our, our best work as parents is to support them in allowing them that time to express their feelings, and even allowing them some quiet time to kind of help and ground. I mean, seriously. For every prescription that I've written for an ADHD medicine, I want to prescribe an equal one for meditation for..
Kelly Williams :Oh my gosh, like I am just so smiling on the inside. So in my course that I'm developing for parents, you know, I, the very first part of it, I call it emotional literacy. Okay, and there is this whole entire segment on that we have to learn how to teach emotional literacy, it is as important as learning to read. And it's exactly kind of the same thing where we have to, and we don't have the right words for these feelings, right? And it's almost better to make up your own words, because then it's not hooked on to somebody's idea, right? And what we're describing with the emotional literacy, and I actually have my handout right here, I use a color chart. So I encourage people to and we talk about the intensity of the colors. And so this represents the the vibration, right? Like how fast is something vibrating. So calm is blue at the bottom and it goes all the way up to red. But when I teach this I encourage parents not to use feeling words initially. Because it gives your child the opportunity to define how they feel, rather than us telling them what it looks like they're feeling because it tends to be different. And it can be really invalidating to a person. If we're telling them what you look like you're angry and they're saying, Well, I'm not angry. I'm excited. Yes, right. So, so that's so cool. How you just
Teresa Vanpelt :Point out with the anger, the angry feeling with anxiety. Excitement, gets confused with anxiety sometimes.
Dr. Cynthia Higgins :Yes,
Unknown Speaker :all the time. Yeah.
Kelly Williams :And it has to do with it. The feeling of it vibrates at this. It's the vibration of it. The things that vibrate so impatient, gets confused with anxious all the time to because impatient is that it's a higher frequency. Yes.
Dr. Cynthia Higgins :And, and you know, the thing about it when you talk about that emotional literacy, that is so important because, you know, these children are very impressionable and so it sets the tone for them to to model, okay? When I'm feeling this, this is how I express that or, oh my goodness, I can't express that. And so in many ways, when we support our children in understanding, they're, they're not maybe acting out. They're, they're not being overly sensitive as a criticism. It's a state of overwhelm, and when we as parents can honor that and then support them. Then you have a child who is much more communicative who has a sense of self worth, but isn't based on on their performance?
Kelly Williams :That's exactly right. That is exactly the key, right? So we're building, you know, the, in the, in the research, the one metric that we that can that can predict success is resilience. Right? Yes, it's resiliency. And in order to be resilient, you have to be able to recover from mistakes. So the great news is you have to make a whole bunch of mistakes and get really good at recovery. Right? be totally human. Yes, isn't that um, but the other thing is, like, the being open to allowing that right, because I feel like somewhere and I'll speak for myself. I mean, my son was so hyper. He was so hyper, and of course, he's the first one. I didn't have any other you know, no point of reference. I, you know, I didn't know. But I got into the state of vigilance because it was a risk, right? One day I will never forget picking him up from his little daycare at I worked at the university in Tampa. And there's this giant long parking lot, right? Because it's a campus, college campus and everything. And I would pick him up and I loved doing the walk. And sometimes we would even park far away just to have that time right? on this one day, he was so excited. He took off running and he didn't stop. There was no fence. Now, there's a fence there, right? But he didn't stop and all of a sudden, I it was like panic like and I, he was in danger, right? He's running First Street. He's three years old, he doesn't know. So and So a number of these kind of things happen to parents and we get this hyper visual This it's an anxiety for sure, right? But you're always on alert that the hyperness is going to cause something to happen. That could be dangerous, or unpleasant or whatever it is, right? And then it just compounds and it just compounds and it kind of it can build up. So there's this
Dr. Cynthia Higgins :right there's that's why we call this the parenting balance there is this balance between what we're feeling and experiencing as parents and then what our child is feeling. And how do you help your patients navigate that? Do you do you do work with families with kids? I do. And when we go to treat the ADHD, and that's a perfect example that you just gave, because when when we're treating the child in many ways, it's also healing for the parent because they can recognize there's a different outcome that's possible here. What I'm envisioning, and for me, I think the greatest impact that we can have in treating families is to increase that understanding, again, of how very special this child is, and what we need to do in order to support that child. And so that that is where I like to do the family work and creating that understanding. Mm hmm. So, in a lot of times, I'll meet with parents, you know what?
Kelly Williams :I do, too. Yeah. Well, it's, it's so important for parents to understand that this isn't their fault. Yeah. Or a result of them not doing something right. I mean, I did not know that on the day that my child sprinting toward the street. I for sure thought something must be wrong with me because I cannot control my own child. Yeah, come to find out, any years later, right. So but that's why we're here. That's why I'm on this mission to help other parents understand. So, um, so let'sthink about, you know, when you're working with kids that have anxiety who present to you with anxiety, what kind of things do you find useful there?
Dr. Cynthia Higgins :Well, you know, this may sound really, really strange, but in talking to this child, and sometimes it's an adolescent, but in talking to this individual, one of the things that I allow them to tell me is, what's worse? What are they most affected by? Are the most effective and the worries, maybe their inability to, you know, speak up in class, or are they troubled by the fact that they can't seem to finish their work or they know the answers but they rushed through it and they get a poor grade on the test. I am But what is causing you the most distress? And that's the thing that we start with, because we do want to address that. And, and when I say that it sounds strange. That's not a traditional approach, but I do so because no one is a greater authority on how they're feeling, then that child, then that individual that goes from my adult too. You guys are experts at who you are, what's right, and what's wrong with your body. And I think that that's one of the things that traditional medicine does not always honor. This is a partnership beyond a doubt. And the patient is an integral part of the assessment and an integral part of the plan. I always say it's, it's a democracy, not a dictatorship. Your story that you said about the neurologists, you know, that you saw and but that was was such an awful interaction. But like you said, that could be very off putting when a person comes and they offer a bit of knowledge about their own bodies and their own functioning. And it's not necessarily taken seriously.
Kelly Williams :Right, or it's invalidated outright. That couldn't possibly be happening to you. Right, right. And it's like, well, I but I feel that this is how I feel.
Teresa Vanpelt :I was gonna say, especially with people with ADHD, and anxiety, they already feel that they're different and something's wrong with them. And then when they say something, someone's kind of minimizing it or saying that that's not the case or going a different direction. That, you know, tends to turn people away from treatment in the future.
Dr. Cynthia Higgins :Yes and I can say that in historically, even when I was in medical school, there was this paradigm that you couldn't treat both. We were given the introduction that well, okay, if you prescribe this and you've hearddescribe that then they compete with each other. And I thought, Well, wait a second, we we treat people with with heart disease and we treat people with diabetes. And we know that there are certain heart medicines that actually can raise blood sugar, but we don't have that same stigma. So it's very, very important that we honor the person sitting in front of us if both conditions are present, we need to treat both conditions.
Kelly Williams :Yes, you know, this stigma against or toward mental health conditions. We have come a long way in the last 20 years. I will say right.
Dr. Cynthia Higgins :Thanks. Wait, yes.
Kelly Williams :But it's almost like that memory of those things is there, right? And that that kind of brings me to this next question. You know, in social work, we call this phenomenon generational stress. And I think in energy healing, you call it cellular memory. Yeah. And I think it's this generally the same idea, which is that, you know, we're receiving from the environment, ideas all the time that really do impact our perceptions, even if they don't come front of mind to conscious thinking. And then when we are trying to help ourselves or help someone else, in kind of in the background, there's all these ideas, right? And so, um, so the stigma about, you know, they're, you know, there must be something wrong with me that I feel depressed or I feel anxious or I can't perform or this or that or whatever it is, is there it's still there as kind of this layer over top of things.
Dr. Cynthia Higgins :In some cases, that cellular memory imprint that paradigm can be more damaging than the actual diagnosis itself. And the reason being is that you think about the the purpose of our brain, though it's designed to help keep us alive to coordinate our bodily functions, and to respond to say, a threat, you know, any sort of stimulus that's coming that may pose a danger to this, this organism, this person. So let's just say we've got a person who say, it's a young girl in, I don't know, sixth grade, and she's, she's got ADHD and she forgets her homework. And suddenly, she's ridiculed in class. And that experience can create what we call a cellular memory imprint, whenever you're going forward in the future. When she is called upon to, to perform to produce something, if her brain has said, well, this is an experience that is, is very dangerous. And so we've got to avoid this at all causing it. So she she comes up to, I don't know, a job interview. Yeah, once you graduates from college, all of a sudden, that cellular memory kicks in and says, Oh, you remember last time when we, when we were called on to perform. This didn't go so well. So maybe we shouldn't do this. And all of a sudden, we're flooded with all of these fight or flight hormones, you know, we're anxious, we're having panic symptoms. And the truth is, she's perfectly prepared for this interview. But it's the cellular memory that's coming in, that's creating that difficulty, that literal block to her progress.
Kelly Williams :So this is exactly the situation that I always refermy clients over to to Teresa for EFT Yes, it's clear, I say it's like plumbing. It's like emotional energy plumbing, right? And when we can define where the clog is the energy clog, you just go clear that one clog. And then and then everything shifts. And we work again, you know, and so that's how, in our practice, at least, that's how she and I kind of integrate those two treatments, you know.
Teresa Vanpelt :It's been, I don't know, practice changing. It's been really powerful work. We did that, like we've learned a lot. And I don't know it's gotten things back on the road faster.
Dr. Cynthia Higgins :Yes. And that's one of the things that I love about energy healing in all of its forms, whether it's EFT, whether it's other modalities, but it allows us to be that much more effective to go that much deeper than just saying, oh, while you have a symptom, here's the cure for that symptom because we are addressing and we're treating the whole person. And, and I can say that, you know, this shift for me, has meant that what I do now is just immensely more satisfying than what I was doing before.
Kelly Williams :Yeah, yeah. Well, you can't unring the bell, you know, right. Like once you realize the power of the energy side of it, it's like you can't not do it anymore because you're only doing half like you can you can see it in your work right? is so amazing. I want to ask you one more thing regarding the energy work and it has to do with this. Anyway, it has to do with the environment, okay, because people with non neurotypical brains are very sensitive to what it feels like in their environment and as we get going this year, it's kind of almost back to school time. A lot of the work I'm doing with my families has to do withkind of shaking things up a little bit in the environment, maybe maybe rearranging furniture or like doing kind of like creating a special space where you're going to do your schoolwork, and then only doing schoolwork in that space so that we don't, so that we can have some kind of boundaries around since we have to do school from home right now. And, you know, we want to still have this feeling of starting school and stopping school, and not always feeling like we're doing school when we're home, you know, anyway, so I try to help people do that. But is there like, can there be blocks in the environment? And does it help right because like I have several I have a couple of high school students. I usually see this with older kids wear patterns..I call them circular arguments like these, just these patterns of interacting, have built up over time with family members in the home. And it's it's like, it's like if we just take them out of the home and put them somewhere else. No problem, no problem. They can use all the skills I'm teaching, but the second they get back in the home, everything goes back to the way that it was. So you know, so I recently said to one of my families like I have no idea if this will work but I let's do an energy cleanse in your house.
Dr. Cynthia Higgins :Yes.
Kelly Williams :And see if it's like EFT, right? Where EFT is like clearing your emotional plumbing in your body is an energy cleanse in your environment like getting clearing the external energy.
Dr. Cynthia Higgins :Yes, it is. Yes. And it is releasing those things that you no longer need. I mean, at one point they may have been helpful at one point they may have been, you know, sentimental, but whether we're talking from a physical clutter standpoint, or we're talking from an energetic standpoint, when we have that space clearing, it allows that energy to move it allows our own biofield to then expand to where it is functioning at its best. And again, going back to that, but biofilm that I mentioned, it has been scientifically documented the effects of our environment, the even the effects of our thoughts upon our gene expression has everything to do with the science of epigenetics. And so if there's anyone who wants to read and learn a little bit more about that, that is a science that validates this bio energetic field and its effect upon her functioning even down to the DNA level. So, you know, we can have generational things that happen for sure. But is it the genes? Or is it the paradigms that get passed along that activate those genes? It's kind of like, you know, what came first the chicken or the egg? Yeah. But the good news there. The reason why I mentioned it is that it allows for a greater repertoire of responses, you know, just because we might have the genes say for heart disease, it doesn't necessarily mean that that's expressed. There's a, there's a great deal that we can do to mitigate that, based on epigenetics based on our own bioenergetic field.
Kelly Williams :And based on having an open mind and a willingness to shift the way that you think about things, right? And I can't understate how difficult that can be right?
Dr. Cynthia Higgins :It's it's challenging. It's very tough.
Kelly Williams :Yeah, yeah. So it's, it's, you know, about staying open to things. And it's a strange time right now, right? Because there's almost more of an opportunity for that because we are technically a little more isolated from the pool of what other people want from us. And it's, it's opening this opportunity to be a little more independent in doing what we want making it easier. It really is, right? Yeah, it's fun.
Teresa Vanpelt :Dr. Higgins, what, if anyone wants to contact you for energy work or any of the things that you do? How would they get ahold of you?
Dr. Cynthia Higgins :Okay, there are there were a couple of ways. As you mentioned earlier, my website is called in the spaceoflove.org. And then I when I do physical work, and certainly that is COVID appropriate or wear a mask and gloves. But when I do face to face work, I do it out of the Mind Spa Integrative Wellness Center, and that is located in Sarasota, Florida. And that phone number is 941-378-9959.
Teresa Vanpelt :Wonderful. Do you have anything I know that we talked about a project you're working on? Do you have anything upcoming that you want to tell the listeners about?
Dr. Cynthia Higgins :Yes, and this was an inspiration based on the energy work and again, based on that recognition that we are definitely more more than just our biochemistry. You know, I talked about the chakras those energy centers if you will, those those entrance and exit points points of information from us to our environment, from our environment to us. I've developed a series of candles and aromatherapy sprays that are designed to help kind of soothe and clear those energy centers. And it for people who say, well, gosh, you know, I really don't understand all of this, I really don't know what it is. You can just use them simply to relax and to set your environment because they're the aromas are very pleasing. But for anyone who is very interested in the energetic part of it, it is designed again to to clear that energy center and allow it to function optimally and in the same way that you are heard of people who will, they'll do their whole body cleanses. You know, they'll have an Epsom salt bath for example. These are some for the purposes of this product line that I'm getting ready to launch, I'm hoping to actually have all of that online by this coming Friday.
Kelly Williams :Exciting, congratulations.
Teresa Vanpelt :And I have to say, I've used a lot of the sprays, and I've loved every one that I've had.
Dr. Cynthia Higgins :Oh, my goodness, thank you so much. So this is a new I,
Kelly Williams :I Oh, and I love it because I use your sprays in my office with my kids that I'm working with.
Dr. Cynthia Higgins :Beautiful
Kelly Williams :So that parents can see what seems to help you and with great success, there are, I definitely have particularly teenagers who can't articulate the problem. They feel upset. They cannot. They don't have words for it because they didn't get those emotional literacy skills when they were younger. But then they can say, oh, that that smell helps me feel better. And it's doesn't matter, right? It's like, Okay, well, if as long as we can figure out what you need to feel better, we don't really need the words to know what the problem is. So I love this Sensory Avenue, right? It's so good. Is there a different website for people to check out your candles and sprays?
Dr. Cynthia Higgins :That will be online? this coming Friday, and it is called work of angels@etsy.com
Kelly Williams :work of angels@etsy.com.
Dr. Cynthia Higgins :Yes, I can go to Etsy and just put in work of angels actually, and it should, it should pull up
Kelly Williams :Nice, nice, wonderful.
Dr. Cynthia Higgins :And, you know, that that inspiration came just because I you know, it's to honor the things that inspire me, which is, you know, working working with the angelic realm that is part of the part of the energy work that I do.
Kelly Williams :Yeah, it's so interesting. Well, thank you so much for being here with us today, I really appreciate it.
Teresa Vanpelt :Yes, thank you very much. Thank you.
Dr. Cynthia Higgins :This has been a pleasure. Thank you so much.
Kelly Williams :And I think for our listeners, you know, if you want to learn more about the energy healing side of things, please let us know. Send us an email at hello@parentingbalance.com and let us know what kind of topics you'd like to hear more about because I really think this is an exciting area and that there's not a lot of information out there you know what I mean? Like it's it's sometimes it can be harder for parents to pull together the information so if you want more, let us know and send us an email at hello@parentingbalance.com.
Teresa Vanpelt :Thank you for listening to the parenting balanced podcast. To join our mailing list. Go to parenting balance.com/podcast. When you join you will be notified of upcoming live Q&As you can help us plan future episodes. We'd love to hear comments and questions. You can reach us by email Hello at parenting balanced, parentingbalance.com.
Kelly Williams :And if you found this information helpful, please share it with anyone else who can benefit and subscribe and give us a rating on your podcast platform. And until then, remember, different isn't wrong.