Unveiling Creativity with @Keifro Pt2: A Journey into Carry Media as a Content Creator

Join us on UrbanCred as we dive into the vibrant world of @Keifro, a YouTuber and Photographer known for his urban and minimal gear content. In this episode, we sit down with @Keifro to explore the inspirations behind his works, the challenges with working in tandem with so many brands, and thoughts behind the industry in both Social Media and the Carry Space.

Today's Guest: Keith AKA @Keifro 

Meet Keith, a talented product photographer hailing from the sunny shores of Australia. As an aspiring coffee connoisseur and avid carry enthusiast, Keith profoundly appreciates modern product design and the beauty of everyday carry items. 

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Instagram: https://instagram.com/keifro
Instagram: http://instagram.com/lokvisuals 
Website: http://www.lokvisuals.com/
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Transcript

Track 1 0:04

Hey guys. Welcome to another interview with the Urban Credit Podcast. Today we will be talking with Mr. Keith, AKA Kero. It's like Afro, but minus the ah and replace with a K Kiro. And he is here with me to talk about some stuff relating to his sudden rise in stardom, in YouTube, Instagram, and, anywhere else you can find him. He's a product photographer. He's out in Australia, crikey. He put his stuff onto Instagram and now he put it onto YouTube. So it's moving pictures. So it's basically the same thing. And he really has, he's really passionate about everyday carry items. He shares his thoughts, his packing setups. And he love shows off his appreciation, exci for exciting products. And has 2.5 k ish subscribers last time I checked. And he has, he's uploaded a hundred, about 107 videos so far. So that's a lot of videos, and they're all professionally shot. They're all professionally done. And he, you might as well call him like a supermodel for product photography because he's just like knocking it out. This is Keith, I've been talking too much. Welcome to the show.

keith_1_12-14-2023_001447 1:32

Hey Ed. Thanks for having me. Love the intro

Track 1 1:35

Yeah. Yeah. I've been practicing that for five minutes. And five seconds actually. And Keith, we had an interview last time. It was very embarrassing because I was not ready, at least this time. I practiced for five minutes. Last time was just, it was terrible. It was awful. I was a terrible host. And then Keith here decided to go to Hong Kong just to cleanse himself of that horrible experience, But Keith, before we dive into that, retreat, to just clean yourself of me, let's get a little bit into, I want you to introduce yourself from your point of view, and then let's see. For the 2, 3, 4, 1 person who don't, doesn't know who you are, give him like the rundown of who you are, man,

keith_1_12-14-2023_001447 2:18

I feel like you covered it very well, I guess for those who don't know me, I'm a pro photographer from Australia. I just started shooting random products and things in the beginning, and then I guess during Covid all went through a phase of just Exploring our hobbies and interests, and that's how I started the whole deep dive into the world of everyday carry and showed off the things I had, the cool products and it really just grew from there. And here we are

Track 1 2:52

Yeah, here we are. He, yeah, he he went straight to just talking with me. We're, we were just talking about how these, so we, I prepped this time, I prepped a whole bunch of questions and Keith mentioned it's what was it, like 20 questions or something? It was like, what was it called? Asking 20 questions or Truth or dare, basically.

keith_1_12-14-2023_001447 3:10

game kind of thing.

Track 1 3:11

Yeah. Yeah. Hopefully after this podcast interview, you'll, A hundred percent know what Keith is like in real life, what underwear he wears does he like to stack underwear? What kind of bags he does. Does he put bags and bags and bags when he travels? And let's jump into the first first, first question. So Keith, how did you start this journey? I feel like that's such a cliche question, but just to give people a little bit of a context, because everyone just loves to hear that, origin story.

keith_1_12-14-2023_001447 3:45

fRom the very beginning

Track 1 3:46

maybe just fast forward to that just before you started. Oh oh, I decided to be a photographer and then I decided to YouTube just like that kind of process.

keith_1_12-14-2023_001447 4:00

Okay. So I guess I think I'll start from the photography journey. I think that's probably like the more interesting thing. So back in high school, didn't know what I wanted to do. Like everyone and I just, it was a trip to Hong Kong in 2010. That's how long I've been shooting, like 13 years now. It was a trip to Hong Kong when I first picked up my kind of first DSLR camera started shooting everything, like street photography, landscapes and yeah, just documenting my whole trip and just shooting the whole trip on like auto not knowing how to use a camera. And yeah, that trip really changed my life and ever since then I've been hooked on photography And yeah, it's just exploring different genres, shooting landscape, diving into portraits. And then I guess towards the end of uni, that's when I decided to do my own photography for businesses and brands, which involved doing like pro photography for brands and just through photography as well. It was a whole mix of different things. And then I guess as I kinda started doing that as my main gig, I was slowly burnt out from doing all the client work. I didn't really enjoy it too much. And then just around the time when Covid started happening, everyone was like stuck in lockdown, isolating at home, and I didn't have anything to do. So I was like, oh, okay, let's let's just take some product photos as a break from client work. And that's the whole kind of setting up in the garage that you see on my Instagram look nice concrete floor and just taking photos after photos, posting them online, talking about them, sharing my thoughts on them. And I guess we slowly snowballed into doing more video work, which eventually, I guess in the past two years, tried to do a bit more YouTube and product reviews side of things. And here we are.

Track 1 6:06

Great. And that sounds like a very very exciting journey from being burnt out to your garage floor and But if you guys have seen his photos, that garage floor is very, it's like amazing. It's it's like the perfect backdrop for the kind of shots you'd be doing. So it works out and it shows that it doesn't, you don't, you, maybe you just need your floor to take really good photos, so

keith_1_12-14-2023_001447 6:36

Yeah. I think it was just making use of everything I had rather than splitting more money on I know backdrops and paper backdrops and all that kind of stuff, so just trying to be resourceful. Especially when you first start, you don't have a nice camera or like any cool lighting gear. It's just create really

Track 1 6:57

yeah. What do you, what would you say, like your if you had to do it all over again, what would be like the first, like what would you do differently? Would it be like, get investing to like, a really good camera or maybe investing into a mediocre camera, but like investing to lights and backdrop stuff or what would you do differently?

keith_1_12-14-2023_001447 7:21

I feel like my answer's slightly different'cause I came from like a photography background. So I think the most important thing is props.

Track 1 7:30

Ah, okay.

keith_1_12-14-2023_001447 7:31

Sometimes props make or break a photo. For example, styling props is like a different kind of, it's a skill that I haven't really mastered. I just pick and choose whatever, like

Track 1 7:44

usually like you just throw up and then like you just toss it onto the toss it on the picture.

keith_1_12-14-2023_001447 7:49

sometimes I guess in my case, I try to make sure things work well together. For example, if it's like a kind of sleek and technical kind of bag, I'll use some like high tech products with like carbon fiber accents or like stainless steel map black, kinda make sure everything works together. And the other example would be like some like really earthy tones I'll match things like a field notes or some like leather goods. So it really depends on the two styles. I try to keep it just two to three styles rather than other things, or else it just gets, becomes a big mess. And consistency is like a huge thing I try to focus on.

Track 1 8:36

no, that makes sense. I think just for, on a retail side of things, it's interesting because when we display stuff, maybe if it was at a window or if it was like a, if it was or even if we source products there's, either there's two options, right? One is just get what you want or what you think is cool or other is to get things that you think that would match the rest of the shop the rest of what you source. Because if you source hello Kitty. And then a very highly technical product. It doesn't quite match unless it's made for, that made it's meant to specifically meant for each other's kind of demographic. So it falls into that kind of ev it seems like regardless of it's photography or even like business on our end, it's you just gotta get stuff that matches the aesthetic of that scene or of that shop so that it's consistent. You don't want inconsistency.

keith_1_12-14-2023_001447 9:34

Yeah, I feel like those props in accompanying products need to push the, main focus of the product or service rather than standing out too much and deterring from like the main kind of focus. So I think that's the key takeaway.

Track 1 9:51

Yeah. And I think for people, the viewers or listeners who have seen Keith fro or Keith's stuff here if you go to his Instagram or his YouTube, it's definitely very consistent in terms of the style and the look. And it gives that, what is it called? Something like it's like his brand identity where it's just his style his look and the consistency makes it look more professional rather than, just inconsistent kind of types of media. And I think for us, when we, like right now, I think we're trying to play more with Instagram content and stuff like that on our end as well. And in the be in the beginning for us, we're trying different things, so we're trying to see what works well in what form. In what format so I think. We're doing some more short term, but on our page, on our, what do you call it? The grid, to try to keep it consistent. And then I think we're doing some more less professional shot stuff, but kinda like TikTok style videos, but for shorts in stories. And then we're trying to I, for me, I think, I personally think we should try to keep it separate, but I think we're early enough in the stage where it doesn't matter and we're just tossing just to see what works and what doesn't. Do you think when someone comes out of the gate, starting off their Instagram like professional channel in a professional way, do you think they should keep it consistent to one, or should they try to experiment and then see what happens and the worry about the consistency later on?

keith_1_12-14-2023_001447 11:25

I think you should definitely experiment. I think depending on your kind of like niche or industry, sometimes one format doesn't work on the other, so really. I think experimenting is definitely the right way to go, and once you see results from one style or one form of content, I think that's when you double down on that and try to produce more of that.

Track 1 11:47

Do you because I feel like your journey compared to like people like Peter Mc, Kidon, or other people, like their journey has been s it's been so long, they nailed it down and then if they wanted to try something different, it doesn't matter'cause they have such a loyal fan base for you. Do you think that

keith_1_12-14-2023_001447 12:06

think that?

Track 1 12:07

you need to spend a lot of time continuing this consistent format before you're able to try different things or feel safe to try things? Because sometimes, like if I'm looking at something and then suddenly something different pops up or a different style or something it pulls me out of the immersion of that kind of Persona, do you think that that's something that you'd worry about or you think that it's okay to even ex maybe expand a little bit, not stray too far from this style, or, I'm gonna stay consistent with this style, with this, look until I feel comfortable with, my followers or whoever's, with me.

keith_1_12-14-2023_001447 12:49

that is something I've thought about recently.

Track 1 12:52

Okay.

keith_1_12-14-2023_001447 12:53

Yeah. Because at the moment I'm shooting in my garage floor and that place can get dirty really quick and I. Maybe I'm drinking coffee and one accident he'll accidentally put it on the floor and like destroys the floor

Track 1 13:06

This floor is, can't use this floor anymore. Yeah.

keith_1_12-14-2023_001447 13:08

So that, that, that's like the end of it. And like I realized that shooting in the garage, there are lots of limitations. I have to like, move the car outta the garage and Everything's clean. And it's, there's a lot of maintenance to get that look and I know there's like a limit to how long I can actually shoot in the garage before, it's I call it, that's a wrap. That's, I don't know, like five years of content done. tough to move on. Tough to move on from this lovely garage. But I think, yeah, I've been trying out different setups and things and trying to incorporate it into the brand and make the whole thing look consistent and slowly phase out the garage floor, whether it's I've got like the gray backdrop now and like this YouTube studio. So it's really exploring other content rather than focus on the visual look now.'cause I feel like the visual look, I think the concrete floor specifically is like, it'll come and go, but whereas me as a, as like the main focus of another content, I think I need to evolve as well. And it's just moving away from that concrete floor nowadays.

Track 1 14:21

Yeah. Yeah, you can shoot your fu future videos on your chest instead of the concrete floor. The focus is you after all the,

keith_1_12-14-2023_001447 14:28

Yeah.

Track 1 14:30

Alright, just gimme one second. Hold over. Step button. Why is this okay? Okay. Alright, I'll be right back. Okay. Sorry.

keith_1_12-14-2023_001447 15:07

All good.

Track 1 15:08

I think so. Okay. All right. This little better. Okay.

keith_1_12-14-2023_001447 15:20

So

Track 1 15:21

so then let's that's the future. Let's say let's talk about for Instagram. You, everyone has a first photo and everyone has a second photo. a Most recent photo. Do you, is there,

keith_1_12-14-2023_001447 15:35

Is there,

Track 1 15:36

what are, like, let's talk about like comparing the two, like what would you say

keith_1_12-14-2023_001447 15:40

would you say

Track 1 15:41

everyone talks about, oh, their first photo is like, so cringe-worthy, 10 years later or something. Is that the same for you? Would you order? Can you tell me, oh, you're looking at the first photo. Oh, that I could've done this better. I could, could've done that better. I.

keith_1_12-14-2023_001447 15:57

I think for sure, like when I first, do you mean like when I first started photography? Like those

Track 1 16:02

no. Just like we're talking specifically about your INS Instagram photos. Your very first Instagram. Yeah.

keith_1_12-14-2023_001447 16:07

For my very first EDC post to

Track 1 16:10

Yeah.

keith_1_12-14-2023_001447 16:12

there's not much difference. It's maybe just a slight tweak to the edit, but lighting wise and prop wise, it's identical

Track 1 16:22

All right. All right. Let's change it to question, let's go back to the question that you just said, your very first foot photo compared to your most recent photo. Let's do that instead.

keith_1_12-14-2023_001447 16:30

Oh, like the very first few photos I took in Hong Kong were, I'd say, out of the thousands I took, probably like a couple were like memorable and actually look somewhat okay.

Track 1 16:43

Okay.

keith_1_12-14-2023_001447 16:43

was just shooting on auto, like just hands free, like the camera to its thing and

Track 1 16:48

take God. Take the wheels.

keith_1_12-14-2023_001447 16:49

anything.

Track 1 16:50

Yeah.

keith_1_12-14-2023_001447 16:50

Like shooting nighttime for a beginner is you dunno what you're doing, but your camera's taking forever to take the photo. But it's just like there's not enough light and the shot is just open and you're just moving the camera up on reason. So It is a bit of a learning curve and yeah, there were a lot of things back in the day. I, no, I experiment a lot especially with like life photography.

Track 1 17:13

Uhhuh.

keith_1_12-14-2023_001447 17:13

There's a lot of stuff I've practiced at home, like shooting, I don't know, just random products and testing things and no one's got to see that. And it's been a very long kind of behind the scenes of testing and implementing into the professional work side of things.

Track 1 17:32

Yeah. When are we gonna see those photos?

keith_1_12-14-2023_001447 17:36

Some of them are on my like personal Facebook page,

Track 1 17:40

Okay.

keith_1_12-14-2023_001447 17:40

No, none of them are like online anyway,

Track 1 17:44

Oh, okay. Okay. We can't find it guys. We can't find it. All right. This, the interview's over. That's the whole purpose of this interview, just to find the secret terrible first shots. Okay, so o obviously recently you've changed from photography to videographer. How was that? What was the thoughts behind that? Like, how did that happen?

keith_1_12-14-2023_001447 18:07

Yeah, it's a pretty for me it was like a very interesting transition.'cause like up till the end of last year I was doing like 90, like 80% photography And then like 20% video work where it's mostly like just YouTube at the, at that time. And I knew, video is going to be the future. So at the start of the year, I bought like a nice video camera, the Sony FX 30, which is primarily a video camera with some photo features. And then from January onwards I've been like, my whole work just flipped entirely. Now I'm doing like 90% video. now and then I'll just take a couple photos. It's the whole landscape of things have changed. Every brand wants like short form videos and

Track 1 18:57

Yeah.

keith_1_12-14-2023_001447 18:57

I want to focus more on YouTube And yeah, it's just video, and Yeah, that's the

Track 1 19:03

So you're all in, you're all into video now because this is where the people are going.

keith_1_12-14-2023_001447 19:09

Yeah, there are like, I still need to use, my like photography camera for photography projects here and there, but It, there's just aren't that many and it's

Track 1 19:20

Wow. It's crazy that the landscape. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. OkAy, so that means you're a YouTube, you are officially a YouTuber.

keith_1_12-14-2023_001447 19:31

I wouldn't say officially. If you look at my upload schedule it's nonexistent

Track 1 19:35

Yeah, but it's you shout out, you pushed out enough content where it's your channel's filled and it looks like legit. And you're, it's, what's the word? I think you're pushing'em out not like some other YouTuber every other week, but you're pushing out content, which is like really high quality and it looks consistent, looks good compared to some people who are just like, whatever, whatever, just but yeah, it looks good. If you, if every, if you guys are interested, go check out the YouTube channel. We'll probably link it in down below, but looks so great. I think that's like the goal for us to hit that quality, spend one year to make one video and then shoot. I think that's the formula right there.

keith_1_12-14-2023_001447 20:16

My strategy for YouTube is it's very different to like Instagram. It's kinda like batch shoot everything and then just post them. I think for YouTube it's, for me, it's still one of the platforms that can still you can prioritize quality over quantity. Whereas Instagram people are just like, you post and people forget it. Whereas YouTube maybe like people in a few years time, they wanna look up a review and they see it and it's oh, okay, This guy's been putting in the, effort in like maintaining quality. And, it's, for me, I think at the moment my goal has been, upload one YouTube video a month Oh, it's, I don't I have a lot of respect for people who can just, turn out like really good quality videos, like weekly

Track 1 21:01

Consistently, right? Yeah.

keith_1_12-14-2023_001447 21:03

consistently.'cause it's tough. Especially if you do it by yourself. It's very tough. I think. Yeah. It might be time to scale and get a edit.

Track 1 21:13

Yeah, I, it's funny, I was actually just thinking about that there's this YouTuber on YouTube that her, I don't know if you follow her, but, her channel is called Life with Risa.

keith_1_12-14-2023_001447 21:26

Yeah. She recently blew up on YouTube.

Track 1 21:28

Yeah. And then she's she does everything I don't know if it's true, but she does everything by herself, and then it's like very cinematic. She does a great, like storytelling. Everything's done so well. She got her first Sponsor through story blocks and stuff like this. She's blown up, but just her quality and I like so much respect for her to be able to do all that just by herself and consistently I don't know if she does it like. I don't follow her enough where she, if I know she does every two weeks. But I feel like that kind of quality requires like a lot of planning and things like that. So if so, then that's good. It doesn't mean that you have to do every two weeks. I think that as long as it's a schedule where people, if you do it every month, people expect it every month, and that's what they expect,

keith_1_12-14-2023_001447 22:13

And I think, yeah, especially when you like, make one video a month. When that video gets a 10 outta 10

Track 1 22:21

Yeah. Yeah.

keith_1_12-14-2023_001447 22:21

my anxiety just shoots up. It's oh, man, I did such a bad job on this video.

Track 1 22:25

Really

keith_1_12-14-2023_001447 22:26

Yeah. That's happened there. There have been like, they just flopped like as soon as I published it. And yeah, there's a, it's a balance of, make sure, making sure the video does well and for the amount of effort you put in

Track 1 22:40

Yeah. Yeah. I get it. I get it. So since we talked about that, we talked about YouTuber, is there like a favorite YouTuber that you watch or follow along with?

keith_1_12-14-2023_001447 22:50

I figure YouTube, huh? I Follow along.

Track 1 22:54

oh, you don't have to play. You don't have to

keith_1_12-14-2023_001447 22:56

is. There is one. Yes,

Track 1 22:57

me. It's me. It's me.

keith_1_12-14-2023_001447 22:59

Yes. I love your podcast.

Track 1 23:02

Yeah, exactly.

keith_1_12-14-2023_001447 23:04

Scott Yuan,

Track 1 23:07

Okay.

keith_1_12-14-2023_001447 23:07

if you've heard him. He's

Track 1 23:08

I haven't, but now I'm gonna look'em up.

keith_1_12-14-2023_001447 23:10

He is like a 3D printing and like really good storyteller. He combines both and yeah, it's just phenomenal videos.

Track 1 23:19

wow. You gotta link it to me'cause I'm not, it's not coming up on,

keith_1_12-14-2023_001447 23:22

Scott, you or Scott, you?

Track 1 23:25

Oh, I looked it up in Bing and that's probably the worst place to to look things up. Okay. Yeah, you can show me later. But, is it you Jen? You Jen Scott Ujan.

keith_1_12-14-2023_001447 23:37

Yeah, I think so. That's him.

Track 1 23:39

Okay. Okay..

keith_1_12-14-2023_001447 23:41

Yeah. Yeah. He's one of the, one of my favorite kind of creators at the moment. of the usual kind of feel.

Track 1 23:50

this guy, I just, is it the one who did 33 tools that made the cut in 2023?

keith_1_12-14-2023_001447 23:56

Yes.

Track 1 23:57

That video, I just saw like a snippet of 23 seconds

keith_1_12-14-2023_001447 24:01

Yeah. He's a, yeah. I love this stuff. He's a, yeah. Amazing storyteller. Especially combining filmmaking with 3D printing, It's like really well produced and well thought out and planned and yeah, just very nice to watch. It's like an experience, even though it's like some of, it's like a very informative piece. It's very entertaining to watch and you don't wanna click out of it, so it's it just sucks you in

Track 1 24:28

Yeah. I mean that first 23 seconds that I saw, I was there was like, no, I wasn't even listening to anything. It was just like, when you hover your mouse over, it was like super engaging. I was, I just felt like I wanna watch more, but I can't.'cause then Keith here would be just big by himself and it'll be The worst interview. we'll watch together. We should do a, we should do a YouTube live. And he's just watching other YouTubers and just complain about our lives and, ah, everyone does it so much better.

Keith 24:55

Someone younger doesn't.

Edward 24:58

Oh, that's, guys. Lemme tell you, the worst thing for me at least, is two things. One is seeing someone younger doing everything better than you. And the second one is. Having people of other races, speaking the language of your people better than you do. So these YouTubers, like who, thEy go to those restaurants and order food in a way that I can't

Keith 25:23

it's very demoralizing.

Edward 25:24

Yeah. Yeah. Oh man. Oh man have picked up that language. Yeah. I should listen to my parents and learn my Chinese back in, when I was, instead of playing with my Legos, Wow. This got really depressing. But what's your like level with the Chinese? Is it like beginner, intermediate? Do you, can you speak it or understand it to, so my Chinese is okay, so I'm For people who don't know, probably don't know. My life is very secretive. I'm married with a, I've been married for 10, like around 10 years and maybe more. And then my wife is mainland China, So prior to that, my Chinese was terrible. I could probably speak, the very basics. And then but after I got married or stayed with my wife for this, these few years because she speaks Chinese to me, I'm forced to pick up her Chinese. And it's not even I. Chinese that if I like, I can't, if you talk to me about the meaning of life or the science of something, none, it's not happening because I would just blank out. Even like talking with other brands in Chinese it's difficult, but conversational, like totally, okay, drop me off in the middle of China. If I didn't get taken, kidnapped by the Chinese government, I'd probably get back. Okay. And then and then I would, because I'm learning from my wife, I pick up her cues and the way she speaks, so I speak like her, which is weird and interesting at the same time. what about you? I was, I went to I'm from Hong Kong or my parents from Hong Kong, but I was born in Australia. So in Australia on like weekends, on a Saturday since primary school. I went Ugh. Chinese school and, No, I hate that. yeah. It was just So you must be good. Conversational was okay. I probably can't read or write as well as I used to I can't reiterate at all, so it's okay. And my mandarin's like beginner We compliment each other. Let's just go on a trip through Asia. We co we can cover like mainly in China, Taiwan, and Hong Kong. Singapore speaks Chinese too, I think sometimes. I don't know. See? There you go. See that's four. That's four right there. That you can read a little bit so we can go to Japan. They have little Chinese in there, like some of Tiny bit. Yeah..Yeah. Yeah. It Road trip. no, not the greatest level, but Yeah. I can get by in Hong Kong, Oh, lemme tell you a story. I have a friend in Taiwan who speaks he's white. And he speaks fluent Chinese'cause he's been there. He studies, he's a teacher there. And then I, obviously, I'm not super as fluent as he is. So whenever we go to a restaurant there in Taiwan we're sitting down, the people are looking at me, expecting me to order. I can't read. So I'm like the and then my friend would and then my friend would like order in like super fluent Chinese. He would have a conversation. I'm just like, there fiddling my thumbs, looking at the sky, pretending like I only do sign language. So they So I don't shame my family myself. But yeah that's that's always embarrassing. Yeah, that's the same story. When I went to ji, like I didn't know how to speak to people in Mandarin. I like, oh man, it's just, it was just rough Yeah people translate me and speak for me. It was like, oh man, it's, Oh man. Yeah. Embarrassing. Anyways, wow, this really got depressing. let's see. All right. So yeah, consistency and quality. We spoke about that. We spoke about like what are the so compared to Instagram and YouTube then, like what are the, some of the, some challenges and rewards of, both? I feel like at this point in time, I feel like YouTube as much as difficult as it gets, I feel that it's more rewarding than doing Instagram, which is strange to say compared to, why is it, why do you think it's like what's so rewarding about that YouTube? Is it because you spend more time and work on it and now that you're producing like a video contact that people can always go back to? Oh yeah, for sure. I think that's like the most rewarding side. All that ti, all that time and energy spent on planning and shooting and yeah, editing, I think maybe because not many people are doing it these days, I feel like everyone's, like the barrier to entry for Instagram is like very like low. Everyone can just, use a smartphone, take photos and talk about, and dancing reels and whatnot. like YouTube, the long form content, the skills you need to learn to, get some feeling engaged in your video for eight minutes straight and yeah. Very skill to and I feel like I've grown more as a, as a creator doing YouTube for the past two years than I have photos and talking about gear on Instagram, which is,

Track 1 30:46

Hmm.

Edward 30:46

yeah, it's a different kind of comparison and Yeah. Yeah. I agree. I think that Instagram was, I feel like when you're younger, Instagram is like, cool. Okay. were younger, Instagram was like, the cool thing. But I think as we get older, I think we want something more from, I'm not sure if it's like just wanting to learn more or try different things now. As I'm older, I feel like the long form YouTube It's something more interesting that I'd like to, in terms of like my business, but also, personally, I'm just very interested in the concept of long-term, not long form videos. And I think I, I don't know what do you think is that, as you have, as you've gotten older, do you think that something there that clicked where, oh, I've more into YouTube because of that I think mine was from more of a business or strategy Okay. Oops. That like a necessity. yeah, like Instagram, like the, I think a couple months ago were like. Censoring all these like knife posts and whole EDC community was like, oh, we, it's the end is an ear. foR me, I was like, you know what? I'm glad I made the switch to g YouTube as Fuck this yeah, from like a branding standpoint, feel like YouTube you it's easier to build a brand, at least for me, I think it's probably worth it compared to Instagram. And I guess back to your point of like kinda long form content. It, I don't know. I feel like doing something different compared to everyone else, YouTube was like a big thing back in the day. Back in the day, like a couple years ago, and like everyone was hopping onto it. I didn't hop on it. I was still doing Instagram, taking photos. And nowadays it's like short form con content with Reels and stuff. I do it just to, get through reach, but I'm really enjoying the, making The long form content may, maybe I'm just slow at No, I, it's interesting because whenever I talk to, like other business owners or even Watch videos or go to classes or whatever, like for entrepreneur or whatever, they, people are always like pushing the hustle culture or like pushing oh, just do it. Just do it. If it's out, just try it and then just commit. But for me it's at least for me, it's for me I can't do that.'cause then I feel not necessarily burnt out, but I just, I'm not interested or engaged enough in that whatever that is, whatever that new thing is, to consistently and continuously commit to it. So I, for me, it feels like there's always like a time in your life where it's the right time for you to switch. And it's not it's not something you can time. Or like plan for, it's just that moment in time where you're like, you know what? Today I really feel like I want to try YouTube, right? And I, lemme just do this first video. I'm gonna set up my account. I feel really good about this. I feel really good. And that really apply that even that kind of concept applied to urban credit where I used to do sell like Japanese, cute products imported from Japan. And I was feeling burnt out towards the end of that cycle. And then I was contemplating urban cred, but it wasn't there yet. But it was just like that one, like epiphany or just like that one moment in time where I'm like, you know what? I suddenly had the feeling or the urge to really commit to this idea. Let me just shut wing. My o company was wing, but like wing bot down for this. Lemme just close the shop down for now and then just. It's self-fulfilling orders, and to focus on urban cred all the way now it's three years or four years or five years, and I'm all into this and I'm, I don't even do wing that wing by idea anymore. So do you think that's going back to you, do you think that's something that you felt like it wasn't really just a necessity because everyone else was doing it, but it was just felt like the right thing to do at the certain amount, A certain time, A certain point in time, I think there's always pressure seeing like everyone else do it and then you're like, oh, I'm missing out. Maybe I should it. I think when I first, I filmed a couple videos like four or five years ago. first attempted at YouTube, and I don't think I was like just ready at that point. Even when I posted like my first few videos, they were horrible. I look back and I just cringe. All right. Time to go. Look it up guys. It's only, I think even past year, it's just the past, probably like three months, I'Ve been making, like I'm thoroughly enjoying the process of, in front of the camera and being a lot more comfortable now and presenting and talking about things and yeah, there's just these phases I go through and then it's oh, okay. I'm glad I've gone through the struggles of, panicking and anxiety levels just skyrocketing. It's oh. Why am putting myself through all this stress and anxiety just to film some YouTube videos that no one's ever gonna see? then I just pushed through it and I'm really glad I did. All right. That's also what I meant. in The beginning you did these videos that were awkward and wasn't like greatly shot, but did you continue or was that like a, or you stopped for a period of time and then you started, and then when you started again, it was like more done, more right? Because you had more time to prepare or be more experienced. Yeah. So the first time I wasn't prepared at all. I just on the camera, press record five minutes into it. I was like, panicking this isn't going great, this is horrible. this is horrible. What am I Yeah. And then that experience like, oh man, that turned me away from doing YouTube. I think maybe like about a year or six months. And then I had a, my friends at Alpaca were like, we're doing a Kickstarter. We'd love you to do a review. So I was like, you know what? Maybe I need someone to push me to go back, get back onto YouTube. So I filmed that with a bit more planning. It was like, was okay, but it's awkward. And then from that point, it's been like two years of just, IM improving, implementing new kind of editing styles and techniques and yeah, it's getting better. Yeah. That's like what I mean, like it, there's always that first time where you're, you try to force yourself to do it and then it doesn't work out. And then sometime later there's something happens in life where there's a reason where you're like, okay, lemme just try it again. And it takes off from there. Like that. There's like a moment in time. Yeah, I would you call it like a defining moment where it's Yes. Yes. That's a good way of moment where, I don't know, something aligned that just clicks in. You just like Just path through and keep improving. Yeah. And just happens compared to which I'm sure some, it works for some people where they just oh, let me just try it. Oh it, I'm just keep doing it. Whereas I know that if I was in your situation before I, before for the first video, I would be like, discouraged as well. I'd be, oh, what am I doing? This video's gonna turn out like shit, I'm just gonna stop. Of Life. sit in an empty room. Just, what am I doing? Yeah. It's all dark. There's no lights and then you're just like staring at the wall. What is going on? And then your camera's just blinking.'cause it's like running outta factory. It's like It's renting out how long you that's how long you've been sitting in the room trying to film the Yeah, exactly. yEah oh wow. Okay. Yeah, those are definitely some interesting challenge, like perspective on of creator's point of view. It's not so easy, is it? I, so then would you say this is your passion, I'm assuming this is your passion now? I think so, yeah. Compared to, doing random photography for know, restaurants and random products and things. I'm really enjoying what I'm doing now and it's, content creation has been mind blowing. tHink over the past three years. Things and opportunities that happen I never thought would've happened in my life. Five years ago, I think I was still shooting for a local wallet brand. I was talking to the owner we get inspiration from like other wallet brands like Bero, Dango Pioneer, Carrie Ridge Wallet all them. And like when I first started this whole EDC content creation stuff, I never thought I'd work with all these brands and yeah, it's just gets bigger and you explore new kind of like territories of not territories, like new avenues of what you can do as a content creator, which was, yeah, it's just things I've never considered were possible, Coming from like a, I don't know, just photographer background, I think one video, I don't watch a whole lot of Peter McKinnon, but there was one video that like I could really resonate with was photography can get you anywhere. I think Photography isn't, you could do it as your like, like I guess your primary job, but. For me, it was using it as a tool, as a medium to get to other things I want to do, which was like everyday carry and like exploring other kind of like designs and things. So that was one thing that really spoke to me. It's like that's pretty much what I did. Started

Track 1 40:37

Hmm.

Edward 40:37

photography as like a business and then slowly pivoted to focusing and documenting my passions and interests and yeah, Just sprawling to Spiraling downward depression. No, I'm just kidding. I have to No, yeah. no. That's legit. I think that's, it's always cool to hear the create the actual creators like thought process and how he's gotten, how he feels about the journey. ANd talk about journey. I know that you recently went to Hong Kong for not specifically for work, but it just happened where Abel Carey, I think reached out or you reached out to Abel Carey, or how did that work? Like what happened there? Like how was that experience? Oh yeah. I had a friend who worked at Abel Carey. I kinda met him through Instagram. power of media, just yeah. meeting new people. I think that's, as much as I don't like using Instagram and like the best thing about it is the people I've met on there, there so many talented and know knowledgeable people and we just, I always learn stuff and we are exchanging ideas and concepts and it's just been the fun place, like especially in the dms. you totally slid into their dms. much, and then we just making friends on Instagram and yeah, just happened to. Meet someone who worked at Abel Carey then I told him, you know what, I'm coming to Hong Kong and can I stop by the studio and check out your kind of workspace and see what you guys are cooking? And that's how I stopped by and met the owners and wonderful team there. And it was a very good experience. And I think I'm very appreciative of Abel caring for kind of showing me around.'cause I don't think it's a, they let any randomers go in so it's, I got to see the behind the scenes and the whole photography setup and prototypes and yeah, it's just That must've been really exciting. Yeah. it was very exciting. It was like a whole new experience seeing like the team and talk about about their kinda like philosophy and design and. I went there with my backpack, I was like, oh, you know what? I really like this backpack, but there's this small issue with where the straps were pinching my neck I want it for too long. And one of the prototype guys, told me to put it on they got like a ruler and they okay, you're wearing this backpack too high, that's why it's pinching your neck. And like oh oh, okay, I need to loosen the strap a bit and have it sit lower on my back even though I don't like, like it sitting on my lower back. I like it sit high and tight. It's yeah, it's just learning from like the Yeah. who have been doing it, I don't know, for 10, 15, 20 years. And yeah, I thought you were gonna say. I thought you were gonna say like the designers came out, they threw their coffee in the floor. They're like, get out don't like our max. Now that's cool that they're like able to go to you and just like instantly figure out what the problem was. Yeah, this is oh, okay. They've done it for a long time. I know I'm just a random guy who just talks about bags who know nothing and getting I'll cut that out. Should I cut that out? Keith knows everything guys. I don't know what you're talking about. I think that's, I think that's the, beauty of it.'cause I'm still, I'm still new. There's so much I about and I'm still learning. And I think the Hong Kong trip besides Able carry, I also got to visit a other brands like Graham's 28, which is like a leather brand, Like products brand based in Hong Kong. They were really cool and here his kind of philosophy on like leather goods and learning about leather. That was very interesting as well. And alpaca as well. That was another mind-boggling experience thing. Factories and shezhen and the whole design and r and d Wow. and That's crazy. yeah, it's that whole trip to Hong Kong and Shenzhen just completely blew my mind. It's am I doing with life You do something you're doing it's like you just open my eyes to seeing like how things work, like the scenes and Yeah, it's just very inspiring trip and just really showed me what I should be doing or can be doing in the future. And it's yeah, that's what I wanna do in the future. And just diving deep and deep in the world of everyday carry, which is going from like product reviewing to doubling into, prototyping, product design and learning the interest intricacies of the business side. And yeah, it's. There's a whole new world of just ex kind of experience. Oh, okay, I gotta learn this. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's interesting to be able to, it's, see and hear the perspective, not just of people, but like of the different industries. That's the whole, that's kinda the reason why I started this podcast is just to really see, oh, the stories, but also the perspective of other people in other businesses. And it's really interesting actually, just to, regardless of it's, bag design or carry product prototyping or, logistics or manufacturing to like even food or coffee shops or, the nuances of Pulling an espresso and, grinding coffee and et cetera, et cetera. Like these kind of, like different industries have so many small details to them that it's it's interesting to, that you just wouldn't know unless you were there or they were there to tell you what they were like. So yeah, it's totally very, I can see why you're so like, blown away. Yeah, I wish your podcast it with Dan Matsuda from Tadd? That was like a really interesting Podcast. It was like learning and hearing his story of like kind of his journey and going, getting into like product design and stuff. Yeah. Thank you. I think that's one thing about it, like hearing about other industries is always a good thing.'cause it's like finding inspiration. It's like seeing how other industries do one thing. It's like you need to know, understand why they're doing it and what are some other kind of ways they can do it, but they choose not to and can like maybe implement it in some other way within industry Whereas like business processes or like manufacturing processes, it's okay, this is why they do it this way. And like, how could I implement it in my area of like expertise? It's yeah, Yeah, absolutely. I think I, yeah, I think that especially this day and age, I think that even with all this tech and all this, like social media, I think it's people, general, people in general are like more secluded and from the rest of the world than before. So being able to. Being able to look into these kind of industries from different perspectives lit you, opens up new ideas and where you could improve your own, like where you're from. I think for urban cred learning how like food and restaurants work. Sometimes I think we, we cons now we're like considering maybe incorporating some kind of mixed, like a hybrid version of our shop in the future. Not necessarily just retail, but like something where it's more it's more than that. It's more experience, but more I don't know, we're still working things out, so it's really to have different perspectives, to be there to see different industries really helps open doors to new opportunities. I feel yeah, like a coffee shop, open cred with a coffee shop and Yeah. Urban Coffee Yeah, you can do meetups and like workshops there, Hell yeah. Yeah. You can you can sleep there and then we can do an Airbnb coffee, urban Cred strip show. Yeah I'm very excited to see where you take urban credit.'cause nowadays I feel like there aren't too many everyday carry like retailers like around the world. There's, feel each country there's probably like just one or two like the big players. Yeah. Very exciting to see like a new kind of retailer brand just rise up to the ranks and, Yeah. I don't know about rising to the ranks, but we're like floating along I think, hiking is probably the better word. Like slowly hiking up the mountain where everyone else is already on top of Everest. But yeah, I feel the same. I feel like we need more places to shop and more more people to geek out about with, Yeah, like before I did this whole everyday carry content stuff. I heard of the term everyday carrying, but I wasn't like, like down this rabbit hole and I was like, oh, maybe I'm just like the, random odd guy who likes looking backpacks and I know some gadgets. Yeah. out a whole world out there Yeah. A whole world of geeks and nerds. nerds carry experts out there and it's oh, okay, I'm not the only one. And, yeah. That worry about like the pinching of necks when you wear the backpacks. Must be just us not me who's just, looking at the finer details Yeah. design. So Yeah. You just, you never know what good to have. Sorry. No. I was just saying you never know like how many people are out there who's interested in what you're doing, you're saying? Oh, I was just saying it's always good to have new kind of avenues for people to get or learn, like the whole carry side of things.

Track 1 50:25

Yeah,

Edward 50:26

cause I feel like you, how's your, like your pop-up shop?'cause do you get like non, you get like non-car people come in oh, like why do get this X pack bag when I get like a gen sport or like a Nike bag. There's a job and it's you Oh my God. through the material cost and the It's just everything. explain. everything. Yeah. It's really hard to explain. It's so our popup is located on the cusp of soho and Chinatown. And oh, by the way, this is a quick fun fact. I dunno if there's a lot there's a lot of Soho's popping up around the world, but for people who don't know, Soho actually means south of Houston Street. So any, yeah, so it's that's,'cause that area is south of Houston side, so I think in Asia there's a lot of Soho's popping up, but it isn't there's no meaning. It's his, no Houston Street yeah. And then it's like very bougie and like very high end. And it's not that, it's, yeah. Anyways, a little tidbit there. Fun fact. So we get a lot of tourists and then when tourists come by, they're like, they're not really into the Think, but they see the bags, they think, oh, that's really cool. And then, the price point's what, two,$300? And they're like, oh God. Okay. Maybe next time, maybe. But we do get like the occasional people who like appreciate who, who know who aren't even in the space, who totally un, who totally understand, is willing to pay the price oh, for quality. And then we do get people who are from the tech wear space and they're from like or even our carry space who come and oh, I love this stuff. I think this is great. I think it's cool. So once like those guys come around, it's just totally, it's totally fun to geek out with it with them. It's just not fun trying to explain to the people who don't understand the reasoning why it's so expensive. Yeah. Is there do you have a, I dunno, like a script or like key points where like you need to yeah.

keith_1_12-14-2023_001447 52:19

about,

Edward 52:19

Try to inform them. These are the reasons why, this expat bag costs more than, like RIP star. Yeah. I put up I put up like A-P-A-P-P-T-A PowerPoint, and then I go through the list. I have'em sit down for an hour. I'm say, this is why you should get this. No. I it's hard once I start saying X pack, YK, waterproof, it goes over their head. They just feel like it's because, like I know they're not gonna buy it, right? They ask about it, but I know I a hundred percent or 99% sure I'm not, I know they're not gonna buy it. But I did have this I'm not gonna say old, but like a little bit, she's older than me. And then she came and, she was asking about the code of Bell X case backpack, which is like a convertible between like a. I think like a tote in the backpack. And then she was just asking, oh, I think this bag is cool. How much is it? Oh, actually she didn't even ask how much. She was like, oh, this cool, she's I love compartments in my bags. I was like, yeah, I went over with her. This has a lot of compartments organization, it's really cool. And then she picked it up. She bought it even without even asking how much prices. So you really don't know, who's really interested in that kind of product. In the retail space, you don't know who's gonna buy your stuff. So it's really interesting to see in that aspect. Actually one thing I wanna talk to you about, yes. I think So having like a retail store is a great way for non-car people to learn about it because in Australia there's no physical like EDC or like bag store here that Oh, stuff we into, the carry stuff, the brands and all that. And it's hard to explain to non-car people. Oh, all the different intricacies of all the materials and things. And when I went to Hong Kong, there was a retail store called like Suburban Fever Guy. yes. Fear guy. Hey, I love that place. yeah, when I went there, oh my God, it was like just so many cool and things Yeah. And it's just, there's something exciting about seeing a physical product rather than just hearing things online and stuff. And there's always a advantage of having a retail store. yes. compared to just being online and just talking about bags. Yeah, there's, if there was one thing that I really enjoyed was from my previous business was the interaction between us and customers. Just being able to see the, just like really specific, just being able to see the two things, just being able to see the people who know about the product and are geeking out about it or like really be into it. And the second one, really, the main thing for me is just people who don't know about it, but who like, touch it and feel it for the first time. They're totally into it. It's this is like a bad example, but it's I don't know. I cancel it's if you're gay, but you don't know it, it's you, these guys who don't know anything about the carry space, they don't know anything about these bags. They come in, they're, oh, this is so cool, right? And then I see that, and then I go in and I'm like, those are the people I really like to pull in and say, Hey, check it out. It's waterproof, it's got all these compartments, organization. And then the more I explain you the more their eyes glow and like they like really into it. And then and then to be able to showcase and explain the brands that we carry. And then'cause these brands we also curate too. So we pick ourselves. So other people who like the same stuff that we do. It's it's a great feeling. So do you in the back of your mind, do you just keep an eye on like the customer journey of not knowing anything and showing them, they're like, Ooh, you're spark curiosity. And then they're like, learning more and then at one point they're like really deep into it. Yeah I'm gay No. Yeah, do they buy the bags or do they like, okay, I will, I need to do more research? There are there are a few who it just depends. So I think whether they buy or not, it depends on their financial situation, but some people they just, they hear about it. They don't ask about the price to go in all in, or they do hear about the price, but Okay. Whatever. You just whatever you just explained matches the quality of the product that I'm looking at matches what I think the value of it, so then lemme just pick it up because let, don't wanna pay shipping, or whatever the reason. I don't wanna wait. So yeah. Yeah. Hearing like the retail side of things is always interesting, especially in carry world.'cause Yeah, it's just, you don't hear too many stories. It's usually just everything Yeah it's online. So impersonal. That's that's why we want retail. That's why I want to eventually find retail so badly. It's because I just love that interaction with people. And I'm, I am, I think I'm at heart like a people pleaser of people. I like people and I like making friends and communication con conversation even if they're awkward. And it's just something that really sparks joy for me. And then the fact that I compare that with my other passion, which is carry or like business in general it just comes full circle and it's like really great. Yeah. No, it's always good combining two kind of like interests and strengths together. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Now do you, I know you, okay, so we spoke about oh your relationships with the brands and how that experience was like recently. There's a few things. Recently you've been on an interview with pod a podcast interview with Bogus Mona. You've also been listed on like the same page as accessorize me. For Did you not know that? I did think was like for cardiology or something. It was like a list of content creators. WhAt? I'm gonna carry a lot. I think so. I saw your it was somewhere, hold on. What did I write here? It was This is news to me. you were on, oh no. Not cardiology. You were on the same page for alpaca or able carry or something like that. A bag brand, but you're listed as Content creator or something like that. Did you know about that? Because I was gonna, my next question is how do you feel about that? But if you don't know, then I have no idea. I think, I'm not sure. It might have been either Alpaca or April Carey. Yeah, I think, yeah. was one or the other, Yeah. having my face on there. Like with the other big, carry review, YouTube, whatever, content creators, you're like part of them now. I don't know man, at the moment I still feel like I'm just like, a small potato and like the whole world is just kinda just navigating my way. I dunno, it's a, it's a bizarre feeling I guess, In the beginning, you look up to all these creators, like Exercise Me, you run and Best MEEC, and. Yeah. it's been quite a journey, like making friends with them and like following them and yeah, it's just having that community of creators Yeah. up to in the past, like a childhood hero and you're like, meet them. It's oh man I'm in the same space as you guys doing the same thing. Me, yeah. notice me. I'm Yeah. Especially me. I think yeah. Oh, no, you're somebody, you're, you made it, you're on the list. I think I think it's something's, yeah. Yeah. There's that feeling of Yeah, just notice me just re remember me, like that Disney movie, remember me. But I think it's cool to have, I guess I my face on a brand or something. Especially if it's like a brand I love working with. Fine with that. It's like we're both good. I'm featured on there. They can bring their audience to me it's five win-win for I guess both of us. I think maybe next year or in the future it's when things might get tricky when you talk about, like brand exclusivity and not featuring on other brands and non-compete. And I think that's a side I'm still trying to navigate.'cause I love working with different brands. That's what I've been doing like the past three years. Just making friends and talking to people, seeing what they're doing and building all these relationships. And then never in my mind you start talking about like exclusivity and it's oh man. Yeah, it's a That makes that kind of, yeah, that kind of just makes me sad. Like I actually, we have, we've actually ran into trouble with exclusivity, and, exclusivity. Yeah, Peter Pay, Piper. Piper. And we're actually,'cause for a third party retailer, it's very important to be able to pick freely, but some people are, I think some brands just want you, at the end of the day, it's business, right? And you have to protect yourself. So I think some brands feel certain ways about other brands, and like for me I guess I understand because I'm in business as well. You want to be able to protect your brand, your identity, but it it's hard because I wanna work with everyone. And I am a people pleaser, like I mentioned, so I don't like to talk about the negativities. I just wanna work with people and just have a good time. But yeah it's something that's very delicate to touch because you don't wanna, you don't wanna step on any shoes. Like what do you have, you. I Don't, it's, this is something that we shouldn't be talking about, like details, but Yeah. But like, how do you feel, is that something that you don't want to deal with or is that something you're considering to, I don't even know. To continue relationships. Is this something you're considering know. I'm very news. This whole like side of things, it's oh, okay, this is very fresh. I don't know. I'm still navigating my way and kind of understanding like, okay, if I work with this brand and they don't want me to do this, then what is like the fine line between what's conflict of interest and what's possible and I can do, and I know. what about like different industries, like watches and like bags. Is there like a correlation of like conflict of interest? Yeah. like, what if this brand does something that's like similar to what you are doing and Yeah. It's just very big headache and I'm still trying to process everything. Okay,

keith_1_12-14-2023_001447 1:02:43

well

Edward 1:02:44

Yeah. Yeah. It's also, and white. Yeah. yeah, it's also like very touchy subject because I think in the world of design, there's never, there's no such thing as like an original design, I think. And I think it's like all about, everyone just copies each other. And then the key is how different can you make that copy? Oh, there, there are some carry brands out there who are yeah, not naming names. No, I agree. those guys do it wrong, but yes. I think for me it's like someone's. Let me just use the word inspire. Okay. I try to pick out three things that are different. I think that's a general rule of thumb, like three things different from the original, whether it's, I dunno, like material or like some or organization or like use case. I, I try to picture three different changes and Okay, it's different enough from the original. It's it's not like a direct copy where they just copied, the zips and the whole layout of the organization and placements of things and like branding of the logo. So yeah, just try to pick out three things and the minimum of three things. If there's more, it's okay, okay, it passes my book of, it's not like copying. No, I have a here's a scenario for you. What if about you and no, I, honestly, I just, I. It's tough. It's really hard. I think you had this conversation, like Bo likes to talk, talk about this as well on his podcast as well. But it's hard I think because it always, you always encounter like the chicken and the egg. Is this guy, did he really think of this first? Or is there some other brand out there that I don't actually know about, but they're the one who did it first? You know what I mean? And then, so here's the thing. If you if a brand contacted you, right? And then this is like a real life example'cause it happened to me, but they contacted you, right? And then the out the exterior looks exactly like another brand. Okay. With the product tag the brand tag the shape, the design, the zipper placements, but the inside is SLU is like different. Would you say, would you do something, would you do a video of that? Would you Considered it or would you pass? I think at that point I'm gonna look at the entire collection Okay. If it's just a one-off, I still need to do some background check and look, do a bit of Googling at the, look at the finders and

Track 1 1:05:24

Yeah.

Edward 1:05:24

and see their philosophy of design and like makes it different even though it looks similar.'cause If the entire catalog of products look fishy, then I'm not gonna do anything with you yeah. Yeah. I think, like a one-off, Maybe they're experimenting like a new direction or like a new product line, then you know what we'll. Maybe give this a go and see where it takes off. But if the second one you come at in that product line looks something similar, then we have problem. There's it's, yeah. The wor I feel like sometimes the worst thing is these guys are really good at marketing, but if you look at their product line it's they don't copy just from one bag brand. They have let's say the sling is from copy, from I mean inspired by, heavily inspired by another brand backpack heavily inspired by a different brand. And they pull, but it looks very similar. And the worst thing they their Instagram's blown up and they have so many orders that, that hurts me the most.'cause like the actual, the OG ones spend so much time and effort designing the product. And then these guys are becoming I guess more famous because they spend more time on marketing compared to these guys who spend more time on r and d and making a good product. Yeah, I think it's really just down to the people who appreciate the original designs and be like, support them That's true. Some people don't care. I know. But I think for me it's you know what? These people deserve the recognition for what they've put out Yeah. in the beginning. It's all these people just adapted design and kind of. it's better, then you know what props to them for making the design better. But if it's worse, yeah, then they think you, we have a big problem. Don't talk to me yeah, it is like What about, what are your thoughts on like for example, like a really well designed product with, like really good materials and stuff and then some other brand comes out with a similar design but made it more accessible with cheaper materials. What's your take on that rather Ooh, Just materials cheaper.'cause that is tough. Do I think it's okay? Or do I, would I stock what, just, what are your thoughts rather than design different, like a bit of interior change and swap I feel like another brand just came up with a like I, cheaper. yeah. Okay. I'll give you like a different, a few different viewpoints. Personally I'm not into that, anything if I just feel like if you have the budget to create a whole line of product and it's based on someone else's, like another brand's design, like regardless how much cheaper the material is, whatever, I'm just, I don't think you should have, I think you should have at least done some kind of design change in some way to a certain extent to make yours different. From a retailer's point of view, I think it, that just depends on the owner. Like some shops see, because for us, like the price point of a lot of the products that we sell are pretty high. And then that's just our thing. That's what we focus on, the high price, but high quality. But some brands, they, or some companies or shops, they want like a collection of a well-rounded, you have some cheaper products here, some more expensive products there. So for them maybe that's good. That's a good alternative to, the more expensive bags or for their customers. So for the business, a little bit more nuanced, it depends on basically what the business model is and how they kind of market themselves and what they sell. could you it's a little bit more there. Yeah, exactly. Just But yeah, but for me I think I wouldn't one, I wouldn't buy it, and two, I wouldn't sell it just from urban credit in my point of view. Yeah, I guess with your kind of I guess background and input saying, you know what, if I'm not gonna buy it, then I don't wanna sell this to my customers. Yeah. Because I think for for urban credit is like a little bit of an extension of myself. And as a result I see my customers as, like a slight ex extension of, my style and urban credit's, like aesthetic people who shop there. I just as, maybe it's wrong to assume, but I assume that my customers are looking for high quality products the highest quality. And if I sold something like a lower quality, but like a similar design concept, then I think that. It would be doing a disservice to our customers, but also, when they get it and then they get disappointed for some reason, like it breaks or something, they're gonna assume all the other brands on my shop is like garbage. And I don't want, I don't wanna do that for my other brands. So that's why we have a certain, like quality control for what we pick bags, blah, blah, blah. Do you feel like you have responsibility like a representative for other? Brands in your retail? I I don't think responsibility is some is the right word. No. yeah. I don't feel I have a big responsibility to them. I have, I feel like I have a big responsibility for my own business Okay. I think like the brands that we offer brands themselves, they have their own Loyal fan base, so they'll be okay in the long term. But like for us, if we screw up like a product choice or something, it breaks on them or falls apart, it's up to us to maintain that relationship or recover that relationship. And then they'll assume all the bags on our shop is garbage. But that doesn't directly affect them in a way, it, it more affects us rather than them because they have their own customer base. Our customer base is, does that make sense? Yeah. Yeah. So You are more at a loss than like the brands themselves, pretty much. Yeah.'cause and from like the customer's kind of point of view, Yeah. And then if they wanted to, let's say they get off our website let's say we sell Yeah. Like beta carry opposed to able carry. And then, oh, able carry beta carry sucks. But able, they sell able carry, that must suck too. Let me work shop somewhere else. And then they go on YouTube, they find Kero and then they he's doing like this review of this able carry, oh this is not a bad bag at all. They go to able carry to buy. That's what would happen, whereas, yeah. So what is your, okay. What is your preferred travel bag and your equipment that you like to take with you? oh, that's, I feel like we had this conversation last time. You know what, it hasn't really changed that much, Okay. I think actually. Yeah. Backpack hasn't changed. I'm still really enjoying the April k Daybreaker too. I think. I know that thing's just been glued on my back for the past like nine months. It's on you right now. Yeah. Just It's glued to your back or not Yeah. It's just, I don't know, like there are a few advantages of it, even though it's like a small bag per se. Like it's one, it's light and when I go on, carry on, your, I don't know your weight restrictions and I got on my laptop and camera gear and it's like the light of the bag the better. Even though I need a sacrifice, protection and padding, which is one kind of trade off to make. But yeah, that's probably be my carry on slash day bagg, like walking around the city exploring. And you're not worried about like the safety of your equipment and stuff like that because pretty light pretty thin. Laptop, usually just, use like a little laptop sleeve. Just give that one millimeter of Keith. Keith is living on the edge. What a risk taker. And then for my camera gear, I have this low pro camera insert, which has maybe three millimeters of padding, Okay. Like bringing more camera gear. is more of a priority than That's okay. I see. Like on a plane, you, when you chuck it on the overhead cabin, it's probably not gonna move around too much. I'm not gonna maybe get crushed by a get crushed by a suitcase, Fingers crossed. And sometimes and like domestic travel, if I do one bag travel, I'll chuck that bag under the seat'cause it Fits. So that's safe. And I'm like, you know what, like I'll do that under my own risk. And, it does, it works, saves weight and I get to bring more, which is This this scenario sounds like a, yeah, this scenario sounds like a waiting to, for something to happen and I'm gonna switch to something safer. Like a pelican or something. Pelican. Okay. It's worked so far. Yeah. hasn't, nothing bad has happened yet, Okay. Yeah, I think I crossed, knock on wood But guess for slings, I'm. I went for a smallest sling these days. Like a, the alpaca go sling nano. I realized having a biggest sling with the backpack just didn't really work for my setup, especially if I don't need like an iPad mini. It just usually sits in the backpack. Then having a smaller sling with just, like a passport. Your phone and pen and just your essentials nearby. Yeah, just backpack and sling at the moment. Plus a suitcase if I'm doing like distance travel Okay. do you check in cHeck in the suitcase. luggage? Yeah. Carry on with the backpack.

keith_1_12-14-2023_001447 1:15:27

I mean,

Edward 1:15:27

If it's along the trip, then that's when things might change around. I bring the chuck the daybreaker to, into the suitcase Ah, I see. a bigger 30 liter bag. And I know at the moment I've got, I'm testing a couple. I've got the simple duffle band simple duffle backpack, I forgot what it's called. Uhhuh. all the able carry Max, the bigger brother, the 30 liter. I brought that from Hong Kong as a carry-on, and that worked as well, even though it was just one laptop in the laptop slot and then one camera cube with all my camera gear. And then all the pockets and everything was just empty Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, that's, would be like the second setup. Just a bigger, like a 30 liter carry on bag Yeah I've tested the Able Carry Max. I do feel like the Able carry Max. It's a great bag actually, honestly for travel the organization that the thought put into is great. But I do feel like it's, I think the space, you get less space compared to a clamshell, like just the empty clamshell bag. Do you feel that way? Yeah, there are like, it's because of that like internal pocket bottle, pocket holder that kinda eats up I don't know, a bit of space. So you like less space in the main compartment.

Track 1 1:16:46

Yeah.

Edward 1:16:47

But for the weight, if you don't carry enough, it's like you're carrying the bag rather than carrying the stuff inside. yoU overload it, it's okay, I'm actually carrying my stuff. Not the bag yeAh, like that, it's like for all the heavy bags, it's like that tipping point was like, it's worth carrying it for the stuff inside, or it's know what, I'm just carrying this heavy bag for no reason. Balance. It that is your kind of setup oh, God. Tough to say, because I sell these bags right now my daily carry is like the X type by Coda Bell. Do you know? Yeah. It's a smaller bag and I have a thir 14 inch laptop, so I just put it in there. And then it just holds The perfect amount of things that I need like my water bottle headphones and maybe some other accessories that I could switch up like my steam deck or if I want to switch that for like a keyboard or whatever it is, that's what I use for everyday carry for my travel. I use the what do I use? The last time I used the max to travel. I think, yeah. And then I do the ever goods c CTB 25 or something like that. It's it's, the names are so confusing. It's kinda like Dan Matsudas, it's like articles 37. It's to me, like I, I'm really bad with names. But with numbers yeah, it's too confusing. it's still confusing, but, i, yeah, it's usually the seat ever goods, bags for and then the the max. And it just depends on what kind of style of bag I need. If I need more organization, like for small things, I use the max. If I just need to fit a ton of cam like packing cubes and stuff, I use the every goods and everyday stuff. I use the X type from Koda be and then for slings, I, as of now I use the wonton craft. I got, I picked up one of their slings from their sale a long time ago. So that's the one I used as of now. Yep. That's, those are the ones I use as of now. Yep. Oh what word? Word, 10 or one time craft One hand. I keep saying wanton'cause I love wantons, but I, I got I got, I posted it in like a forum and then they they sh they shadow on me for saying it wrong but it's awful because I even went to them I went, last time I went to Taiwan, I went to go check out the shop and talk to the owner. Yeah. So that was horrible. But Yeah. think forever pretty cool it's forever wonton craft for me for some reason. But but yeah, they make awesome stuff. I actually went to talk to'em in hopes of stocking their stuff. They said maybe next time. May not be, we may not be big enough or maybe they're not ready yet to expand through West, but one day hopefully we can stock their stuff. yeah. They've been making some pretty interesting stuff and they're getting more popular these days compared to couple years ago. And yeah, they make all sorts of I think like canvas and some like leather as well. Slow there. Yeah. I've seen some of their like pilots bag, that's Bag as well. Those are pretty cool. They do have pretty a very rustic kind of military like design for like outdoor, indoor, urban, it's like a good mix. Like a little bit of both. yeah, like you wear like a flannel and like a canvas and that's the vibe. I feel like it's like an Asian huckberry kind of vibe. It is A little bit like that. Yeah. yes. From Taiwan. exactly. like EDC brands Taiwan. think, like from the top of my head, Okay, so yeah we spoke for quite a bit. I ask a few more questions. What do you your role in collaborations? Your role with like other brands is pretty obvious. You, you are like a reviewer. You like showcase products and stuff like that. wHat are your future plans? Like we spoke briefly'cause you, you have like interactions with different perspectives and different industries. What do you, in 10 year, this is like interview in 10 years, like what do you hope to like, achieve like with your personal brand? I Talked about earlier. I think I'll probably, as much as I wanna work with a lot of brands and whatnot, I might be maybe not working what? some, rather than doing product reviews and, like doing, like I know taking videos of. Yeah. And photos of things. Maybe get more involved in the background, like Understanding, like how people do Kickstarter campaigns oh yeah. Of course. Like product design, prototyping. I know all the marketing stuff, maybe yeah. Just because you're interested in nothing else, there's no other, Yeah. Yeah.

keith_1_12-14-2023_001447 1:21:43

interested. yeah,

Edward 1:21:44

Yeah. yeah. I feel like I love the whole everyday carry kind carry space. I don't see myself, no It's so strange to say this I don't mind doing product reviews, but I don't see myself doing it for like the next 20 years. Okay. You're like 80. I Hey guys, welcome to the channel. But I see myself being in the space for more than like 20 years and this is like my interest and passion. So in order to do that long term, it's being that trip to ho Hong Kong, ands, like I wanna learn all the other stuff. But I haven't experienced, like the business and manufacturing and all that. Marketing, building a brand and all that kind of side of things. That's stuff I want to learn, really just future-proofing myself so I could stay here for another, I don't know how many years for as long as I can do it. Yeah. Whether that's, being on the forefront as as a face and doing reviews and front walkthroughs or chilling in the back and cooking new designs. And Yeah. Yeah. it's just, I think future plans just, I. I know I wanna be in this space, so I'm just gonna maximize and learn as many skills I can to make sure I stay in this space. All right. Lemme translate this for you guys who's listening. He, Keith. Keith here just wants to make he wants to learn how to make a bag with his face on it. That's what it is. Yeah. The Keith Maybe this is the end goal, I don't know. Maybe start my own brand with the, face on the Just like the backpack is just your face. And then people can just carry it around. unsee it. You'd be That? I'd rock that. I would just put that in the popup shop. Just like a whole roll of your face. They just, it could be different different facial expressions. Oh, this is good. It's gonna take off It is a limited edition collab Yeah. one of one of 100 Ray Yeah. You be, you better scalp it and sell it. Resell it on eBay to make a quick book. We're gonna sell it, and then we're gonna leave one in stock at the shop. And then Keith is just gonna buy it back and then scalp it on eBay. Yes, I'll be pulling like fifties and then that's how I make money reselling my one of ones. What about your, like interview question. What are your 10 years of Besides the and everything? yEah, I think urban Cred originally started off as a retail, like obviously for sales and stuff online, but people don't know this because, but the original, I mean like the still is the concept of earned credit. We eventually wanted to from the get go. I was very interested in video content the, just like creating this kind of storytelling. And I think it goes back to what I mentioned earlier with the podcast. Sorry. Just learning about people, learning about the brands themselves and the stories behind it, and just that really interests me. And I'm just, I'm personally really interested and invest in the people. So when we do business actually too, oh, we like to invest in people. We like to connect with people relation, like business wise, if possible, we'd like to Talk to their owners talk to and then like work with people, maintain relationships, because that's just what interests me. And I think moving forward in 10 years, I think we want to carry that into the video space, create content around that. Creating entertaining contact and content. Content. And even the other part of it is like retail, but finding a way to use retail and a way to connect people together bring people together. And the unfortunate things that in order to do that, we need to make money to pursue those kind of goals. And that that's the toughest part, just to making more and more money to continue what we want to do. But I think, in simple terms, I think 10 years, we want to eventually create a space where we can Collaborate with brands, but also bring people together. Have people to talk, chat, have fun, meet new people but also create, creating content, creating community. That's such something that appeals to me, yeah, I've noticed you've been uploading these like really well shot Terrible. videos lately. Oh, okay. Yeah, especially on Instagram. You guys been posting like product showcases and everything. yEah. We're trying to get there. Trying to get there. Trying to catch up to you. Would you ever do more product reviews and things on your, like YouTube? I Think the YouTube channel is at a state where we're still experimenting and trying to figure things out. I'd I've come from a business background a lot of photography and videography terms are a little foreign to me. So it's taken me a little bit more time to figure things out. Especially post-production and editing and things like that. And just because I'm so busy with the business, it's hard for me to set aside time to do it or learn about it. But I think like 2024, what we're doing is I'm, there's always a fear of hiring someone and not giving them enough stuff to do for what we're paying them. But I think for 2024, we're gonna just take the lunch. And that popup has given me a little bit more experience working with employees just because we're hiring people for that. So I think I found some people that really are good. People to work with. And I think, oh, another thing for 10 years is to be able to find like-minded people to work with. Just because again, I'm a people person. I like people talking to people, meeting people, working with people. To finding a group, a team of people who I could, hang out, go watch a movie, have some lunch, meet their families to working together, crunch crunch time and holiday season pushing stuff out and working together. That's kinda like something that I'm also really excited and really want to happen. 2024, I'm gonna bring some people on. I'm gonna, throw money basically at them and that, marketing and video and just see Yeah. There me some pie, basically. I'm lovely. Join me yeah, exactly. yeah, that's what we're planning today, okay. Yeah man, it like, 10 years is a long time. Yeah. Yeah. change. Yeah, Yeah. It's exciting. It's very interesting to see your kind of like thought process and you're gonna grow this oven crud. Especially now, everything's on video now that you can look back Yeah. Look back at the terrible stuff that we produced, But I think it's part of, I think that's one thing about like doing video contents kinda like you have record of it and you can look back and be like, you know what, this was the era we started hustling and started growing That's true. And you can always back, even though you crease and c cringe yeah, back at it, it's you know what? It was a good journey, yeah. I spoke with Bo and he was like, his first video was like, he always cringes at his first video, so it's gotta be for the people out there when you just gotta There's something to starting just starting. And there's just something to, there's a right moment, defining moment in time where you, it goes hand in hand. What's the key takeaway from today's podcast? Ed? I think key takeaway right for us is just, for me, it's always like that def for me, it's just the defining moment in life. That's the most important thing to me. Just like, when is that the next defining moment? And when will that next push you to that next step? And it's important to listen to that kind of inside voice and during that moment in time to push you. And then just take that and then go forward. All right. What about you? What do you think? What's your tour your takeaway. Okay. as Okay. What about like in when you know your friends and family, they're no, that's fine. It's that's tough. Yeah. I I think you just need to talk to more people. I think it's important to talk to outside your circle. Yeah. I think I need to talk to outside your circle, if you're able to talk to people in the industry or just like other people who are interested in the same stuff. Like check forums or talk to old teachers or like some kind of just like outside your circle. Then it would open like more like just'cause like you were able to go to Able carry, go overseas, get that perspective insight and then yeah. It just opens up like new, like points of views. For me, I had the experience of 10 years of doing retail, so that, that experience opened up okay, I can probably, I could probably do this even if other people say no. But yeah, I mean at, or worst case scenario, just do a pros and cons list. And then tr try. Yeah. Try not to be, not. Oh man. I hate s swat analysis. Just just pros and cons, guys. Just keep it very simple. Don't think too hard about it. Just do pros and cons, but try not to be biased. And then just just be honest with yourself, yeah. What about you? What about you? What about looking at the cons list and looking at it just makes you sad and you just spiral into depression, You might have to, you might have to readjust your your plan or readjust your plan to cover your weaknesses. Yeah. Or, you know what? Fuck it. Just do it and then see what happens over you. Yeah. Honestly, just, probably the best yeah, because, Yeah. and the pros and cons, the cons outweigh the pros for urban credit, honestly, they're different. But then I was like, you know what, this is depressing. And I think like the one key takeaway is like, if you don't do it, you're gonna regret it. Like it's gonna be in the back of your mind. You're like, oh, I should've done that, or I could've done that, or I could've done that. If you did it and you failed, at least you can say you did it. And then you've just, just another experience. And then like you can, let's say if that fails, you can build off it to do something else. And that's kinda what I did with my earlier business. I did like for eight years, and then that, that didn't do as well as I hoped. Then I used that experience to apply to my current business what I learned. And then I'm still learning new things while doing this business. Yeah. Yeah. Fuck it. Just fuck it and do it. Yep. And just it. And then don't worry about it. Don't look back when. Maybe in a few years' time you can look back and start Cring true. Very true. Just don't worry about the cringe, just for it. yeah it's like the it's those those moments in time where you, it's so embarrassing. Like you ask this girl out, but like you said it in such a weird way, I. And then she's rejected you. And then it will always trigger your mind in the most cringe way, cringe worthy way. Just it's, that's just gonna happen. And then you just gotta move on. That's all. Okay. Thank you for the wise words. the better. What about you, man? Is there any doing maybe YouTube or, Key takeaways. I, or even just starting Instagram or TikTok or any kind of long term long form stuff? What is, and they're not sure they're in that like incubator mode. They're like, oh, I don't know. Maybe I'll do this, maybe I won't do that. What do you think they should do? Start? I think at, I mean at the moment there are, I'm always talking to a few people who wanna jump on YouTube and but they've been doing Instagram. They're like, I kinda wanna do YouTube, but like I'm really kinda like concerned about, like all the, besides all the technical things, like camera lighting sound. It's like the strategy? What, how do I get into it? And I think back to hopping on your kind of train of thought, it's like for me, I think finding someone or speaking to someone who's ahead of you is always a good thing where it doesn't matter if they're like, I know maybe like a couple months or A co a hundred subscribers ahead of you, or I think just finding someone ahead of you who may, even if they're learning with you is also a good thing. They're discovering kinda like new trends and things that should implement. And you guys bounce off each other. I think, having someone ahead of you is always A good thing, especially when you run into any, I don't know, issues or concerns and you can ask'em for opinions. Maybe like brand deal. It's like this brand's asking for this and this, but I don't want to do it. How do I turn it down? I think yeah, having someone who's doing what you wanna do, but just ahead of you is like the perfect candidate. Wow. Yeah. I think building off of that, I think that's super, actually. That's great. That's great. Like advice. That's a great point because I actually have someone who's ahead of me. I talked to not a lot, but the conversation we do have makes such a big impact. Like I, I shout out Brandon, he's he's one of the designers at Breit have you heard of that back brand? Hey, the camera back background? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So he, they're based out in New York, in Brooklyn. And then we met like way back and then he he came by the pop-up and was really supportive. Picked up a few bags and we spoke. And then just like we, there's this one, I, so there's this one conversation I had with him where we spoke in depth about some of the kind of ideas that I wanted to do. And as a business owner, there's always I don't have a DHD, but there's always so many things I wanna try and I wanna experiment with. But talking to him let me really narrow and focus down on what I need to do. Instead of trying things that doesn't make sense at this, that point in time. And just having that insight from someone who's been there and done that is so important. And some people say that, oh, meant then you should go find a mentor. But, but it's super important to find someone who's in the same space as you, rather than a random mentor on the internet. Like I had a mentor who's vice president of Macy's. We met and then we spoke and then he would help and he helped in like aspects like of general business stuff, but I got more value. And he was great, he was helpful. And I'm not saying like mentors are bad if they're like from a different, sector. But just when I spoke with Brandon, he was like more, it was just, it just a lot more relevant information, a lot more relevant advice. And it just really helped guided what my next steps were. So yeah, I mean that, it's, that's a really good that's a really good advice. I. Yeah. I think from me to like creators who want to jump on YouTube, I guess I'm acting like the mental that I wish I had, Like advice and making sure I didn't fall into the same mistakes I did

Track 1 1:37:20

yeah,

Edward 1:37:20

don't fall into the same mistakes and I dunno, it's a very, it's a very kind of rewarding experience as well, like just giving ideas and suggestions and coaching people. yeah. You don't know. You don't know until it actually, you actually start doing it. How rewarding it is sometimes. Like you, we look at, I look at mentors, I'm like, oh, why do they do that? But once you start doing it yourself in some capacity, it could be small at large, then you start realizing it was, it feels good to be able to help other people along the journey. So yeah. Yeah, we will everyone should head on over to my website and download my content creator course Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then and

keith_1_12-14-2023_001447 1:38:02

for for

Edward 1:38:02

and you can use my discount code on Skillshare or Udemy. Yeah. No, no of them my website. oh, yeah. You I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. I'm not giving any revenue split every, everyone's like looking, oh, I want, I'm totally into this. Keith, where's it? I understand like the rewarding side of teaching yeah. it's fun. Yeah. Wow. Alright. Can't believe it's been two hours. we we prior to this interview we were talking about so we, I interviewed Keith previously. It was a terrible interview we did it again this time and I I wanna say this one was much better than the one previously, but the previous was two hours and this was also two hours. So I'm not sure how this is gonna, how this is gonna be cut because we talked about a lot of stuff and I might have to split into two, two episodes like I did with Boiz Mono. Maybe I'll just do that. But thank you for coming on. It was wild that we spoke about. It was like I love this conversations we had. It was great. We talked about so much stuff and I just appreciate, thank you for taking the, I know you're so busy'cause You just came back and you all, you have all this brand deals and like you're famous, you're talking to Kim Kardashian, Kanye West, and you're like, working with like, all these big brands, Chanel and Abel Carey, and, alpaca. So you're busy. I know. But I appreciate you for coming, taking this time to come on Thanks for having me, man. And I really, I noticed that you've done more planning this time around and it's, worked. Fall asleep today, Five minutes more. You're improving man. You're improving the next podcast. you. You gotta, instead of five minutes of playing, you gotta do six minutes playing Exactly. minutes and then maybe it won't be two, two hours long. And rather than getting your coffee, you can do both at the same time. Yeah. Yeah. I we had this joke for you guys who don't know what the heck we're talking about. It's just I had I just basically woke up and I had to make a choice between prepping a tiny bit more, or like making myself a cup of coffee. I. So I did the cup of coffee because I needed to wake up. Yes, maybe I'll do both next time. All right, Keith. This is Keith. This is Keith fro a Keith, AKA Keith fro he's on Instagram and YouTube and he's doing a lot of stuff awesome stuff on YouTube. I love his content. It's such high quality. And his photos are great. He's doing a lot of collabs with a lot of brands in terms of doing their video work and stuff like that. So definitely keep tabs on him. He's doing awesome stuff. And as as through our conversation, he has a lot in store for 2024 and in the future maybe in 10 years or sooner. Definitely keep tabs on him. If people wanna find you, Keith, where should they go? Instagram and YouTube. I think those are the two main places you can find me. it's a, it's, they're both at Kero, right? Yep. Correct. Okay, great. And then he's again, also, be sure to hit that. Be sure to hit that and subscribe. But what was it? Smash that and subscribe. For more, comment and share. yeah, for more content. Yeah, so definitely subscribe to both of us'cause we're gonna shoot a more awesome, better produced content in the future. And I hope to see you guys again. Yeah. Bye. you later. Bye Bye. Where's the stop button? Okay, here we go.