Trusting the Universe & Sh*t

If you're avoiding temporary pain, you might be pushing away a big gain

• Stacey Lee & Ané De Hoop • Season 1 • Episode 30

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A small moment of pain for a big gain? Most of the time we avoid the pain at all costs, we're a very pain avoidant society. Maybe it's better sometimes to feel the pain for a fraction of the pain that will compound in the future.

If you find yourself in a position where you need to make a tough choice, and it feels hard - know you're not alone.

You'll walk away feeling more confident about facing those crossroads and trusting yourself to make the right call.

What you’ll hear in this episode:

  • Why hard decisions can be opportunities 
  • How to use your intuition to guide you
  • Practical tips for getting clear on what you really want
  • Setting boundaries that support your bigger vision
  • Real stories of making bold choices in business and life

You can find Ané and Stacey on Instagram at:

Stacey - @barefootbranding
✦ instagram.com/barefootbranding
🌐 barefootbranding.academy

Ané - @mgmnt__
✦ https://www.instagram.com/mgmnt__/
https://msha.ke/anemgmnt

Visit us here: 🌐 trustingtheuniverseandshit.com
Email us: 📩 hello@trustingtheuniverseandshit.com

Intro music by Tyler Dixon

Ané:

sometimes it isn't a timeline that you really wanted to go down because maybe there is a couple of hiccups, but it's for the highest good of all.

Stacey (2):

our highest timeline isn't necessarily the things that we want for ourselves. But it is for our highest good.

Ané:

Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of Trusting the Universe and Shits. Of course it's with Stacey and I here. Yeah,

Stacey:

Hello. So good to be back, honestly. I feel It just grounds me, honestly. This podcast. Yeah,

Ané:

TikTok, maybe YouTube, who knows? You have to see Stacey's setup right now. It's actually hilarious. She looks like a freak. There is shit everywhere at the back of her because she just recently moved. But yeah, it's like really funny. You know, there's TV shows where it's like, I don't even know what they call it, but they like literally hoarder TV shows and they go in and there's just like a little lady, like laying on all the shit. Like that's sort of the vibes.

Stacey:

and you have to climb around. So I spent about an hour just before this episode, just carving out just enough space to have my laptop and my microphone all set up. And I've just got just enough space just for me to sit on this little funny little chair that I'm sitting on and this is just a perfect example of use what you have because we could have said to ourselves I'm not going to do it today I'm going to wait another week until it's all set up but I didn't want to do that just use what I have and whatever resources I have at the time podcasts in their cupboards because they have kids and things like that so you just do what you can. Yeah,

Ané:

Hormozi or whatever he's done. Like, I think he started in like, like the videos in like a cupboard and it's just tells people like exactly if you have this limiting thought that you don't have the perfect, you know, view or Microphone or whatever. Start with what you have, honestly. I mean, I remember when we just started, I was also in between housing. I was staying with like my partner's like friends, houses and stuff. And I too was in this random room just. Doing what I can. I think I bought a microphone like 20 bucks on Facebook marketplace at the time. Like, you know, so this is your little sign to go do the damn thing.

Stacey:

exactly, preach!

Ané:

Today we're going to talk about making hard decisions and having hard slash, difficult conversations and asking questions that could be perceived in a way, but it's actually benefit for all. So this is something that. I feel like as we come more adults, it's really a skill that we have to learn and, and, you know, practice daily, if not weekly, to have those hard conversations to really speak from your truth and from your heart. And sometimes, you know, it may be perceived in a way that isn't of. intention, like pure intention, but it actually is. So anyways, we wanted to talk about that and yeah, the challenges that can come with that.

Stacey:

yeah. So, you know how you can be saying to yourself, I don't want to do it, I don't want to do it, I don't want to have that conversation, I don't want to say that really hard thing to my partner, to someone in the workplace, whatever it is, I But if you did, if you spent this really short amount of pain, just in this moment, to do this really hard thing, the benefits are going to far outweigh that small amount of pain, but we do everything we can, don't we, to avoid that. that pain. And I think another thing I wanted to talk to today about is having that relationship with pain and in life and getting more comfortable with the pain and not really being so pain avoidant.

Ané:

Yes. Oh, I love that. I love that you brought up the, the uncomfortable feeling of possibly being in pain or in suffering in some sort. And, you know, I think that there is this, this masking that we do of, let me just overdo it. Let me just over. Be busy or, you know, do their part of their work or whatever the conversation that you want to have because you don't want to kind of put them on a higher standard because you're not sure how that's going to be perceived. So I love that you're bringing that up. Yeah.

Stacey:

So I had a client who became a friend and we worked together for a long time and it really got to the point where it just wasn't really working anymore. So we had to kind of get to that point. point where we're having the hard conversation to say, actually, let's not move ahead. And you really don't want to do that, especially if it's a friend and you're saying to your friend, like, I don't want to work with you anymore, but for us, it was sort of better just to be friends and not to be working together. And sometimes people will say, never work with your friends, never work with your family. I don't hold those beliefs because I think that anytime you can continue working with someone or you can stop working with someone, just as long as you're willing. to have those hard conversations. So I don't think you need to just completely block out, you know, relationships in business with your friends just because you have this fear that it's going to turn sour one day. I don't think that that's necessarily the way to go. I think it's better to have the really hard conversation and then, you know, If it's working well, it's working well. But if, if at some point it stops working, you can always reassess where you are. Like people will say stuff like this to me, like, Oh, it's too late now. This is already the relationship we have. I'm like, it's not too late. You can reassess your relationship and you can redefine the way that you interact with each other. Even if it's like on a friendship level, you know, it doesn't have to just be on a business level, but. That relationship that you've cultivated can be, can be reassessed at any point.

Ané:

Yeah, and it's kind of like ripping off the band aid like at first, like the first time we have hard conversations, it's going to feel uncomfortable, there's going to be things that's coming up, there's, you know, your voice might be a bit like shaky and you might be like really anxious or like very shut offy and avoidant and that's okay because you're kind of rewiring your, Nervous system in your body to be okay to take a breath, breath and you know, say the thing. And you can always word it in a way that's like, this is a difficult thing for me to say right now. So, you know, please be gracious with me and please know it comes from love. And then say the thing. I think, you know, really being transparent and open with, with that, there's no other way, but for the other person to at least try and understand your viewpoint, right. And I think that's really beautiful that like, yeah, the first time it's going to be hard, but then eventually you're going to get into this really great rhythm where you can have a hard conversations more and more. And yeah, same here, like there's, there's been clients where right now that they're going through a really hard time or I'm just not in it. And I would rather be like, Hey, let's pause our retainer. Let's do this. Cause I'm not delivering what I can and I know that I can deliver more and vice versa, you know, maybe they're distant with me and I'm not getting what I need from them. therefore it's actually the best outcome for all, but it's hard having that conversation when you know, you know, that it's intended, well,

Stacey:

Yeah. Especially if you want to over deliver to a client, you want them to have a really good experience with you. You're a people pleaser. You want people to be happy with what you've done and you over deliver. I'm a very guilty of over delivering with clients. So. You know, like, I want them to be really happy, but what ends up happening is it comes at a cost to me because I don't want to have what's, to me, a perceived hard conversation, but maybe even on their end it isn't, and maybe it's something really simple like, Hey, my rates have gone up an extra 20 an hour. Or my packages have gone up from, you know, 1, 000 to 2, 000 or whatever it is. And you don't want to do that. You don't even want to say it because you're like, Oh no, maybe they're not going to work with me. Or maybe they're going to think that I'm not good enough at what I do to charge that or whatever it is. So, having those hard conversations is going to pay off. So much in the long term for this really short, painful moment. And I feel like you said before about practicing it is really key. Practicing, having the hard conversations, do it again and again and again, and practice and think it through. Think about what you're going to say, rehearse it if you even need to with yourself, write it down. And you know, you might fumble a little bit, you might be a little bit You know, I've had to have conflicts, you know, even with my parents when I've been really raging. And I've had to just have a really deep breath and then say the thing and just say this thing in this really heated moment. But eventually I started getting better at it and I thought, oh, okay,

Ané:

yeah.

Stacey:

this is working. This is getting better. In the heat of the moment, I can control myself more and more and more.

Ané:

it's actually really cool that you brought up the whole right thing, because I recently had a client where I told her it was going to be X amount. And then I did the numbers and I did the hours and the deliverables changed a little bit, like as. I sent her the contract. She wanted more things and I could have easily folded, which I used to, I used to fold it, be like, just suck it up. It's only a month retainer or three months. And I'll just do the overwork. But I was like, I had to breathe. And I was like, no, this is actually more. And the rates actually going to be more because of the bandwidth and all the things. So I just, you know, took a couple of deep breaths and then I sent her voice message and I don't say it in a way that's like, this is it. Take it or leave it. Like those old sales, car sales, like, you know, done it, you know, the deal is done kind of energy. No, it's a conversation. Hey, how do you feel about this? Does this also make you like, do you feel, you know, respected and like that this is going to be the trade off and stuff like that? Like, do you feel like, Opening up the conversation, I think has been the biggest thing for me to shift having hard conversations because I think for so long, I thought it was this very bro marketing sales tactic. But if you have conversations about money or like about rates, with people just have it as you are having it with a friend like that's been my biggest thing it's like how would you talk to a friend about this you know yeah so

Stacey:

Yeah, and even when you're talking about rates, there's something else that you should consider is that Every time someone says to you, Oh, can you just add this thing? And you think to yourself, Oh, I'll just do it. That's fine. And you don't think to add that extra amount for the, what I call scope creep. So this is when the scope of the project increases, the client wants more. And you just say, yeah, I'll just fold that in. So you kind of eat the cost of it, but it ends up whittling down your alley, right? You end up getting less money because you just want to make them happy. You don't want to have to. say this is going to cost more but every time this happens you are like whittling away at your self worth in a way because you're saying like i'm not really worth charging that little extra it's going to be too difficult to have that conversation you don't have the conversation you don't grow the muscle it's going to keep happening to you again and again with all of your future clients

Ané:

i love that it's such a yeah exactly it's it's it's Training that muscle to have those conversations and not having too crazy expectations of how it's going to go has really helped me a lot. So yeah, I love that. I love how we're saying like hard conversations. Let's talk about client rates, but actually it's, you know, it's one of the same at the end of the day, because money makes the That's a whole nother taboo conversation about people feel a type of way with it. So that's also having those being okay to having that uncomfortable part of business, uncomfortable conversation and knowing that you're doing the best you can and just Speaking to them as if they are a human being, like even recently when I bought a, my, my car at the dealership, there was, it's the same exact car, two different dealerships, but I instantly knew I wanted to go with this, this dealer sales guy, because I was like, he just speaks to me, like I'm a freaking human. The other guy was like, obviously I'm going to be like, you know, is there any flexibility with the rate with the pricing of the car or that? Like. Opening up the conversation. The one guy was like, nah, I'm losing money by this number anyways. No, no, no, no, like very like This is it. Like you either take it or you leave it. And the other guy was like, Oh, like, what do you mean by that? How much are you like, again, he's also having a conversation. And for me, that was like, I'm going to go there. And then after we've done all the, you know, we signed it off and everything. I said to him, Hey, actually just wanted to share with you. Like there was the other

Stacey:

Oh, you did.

Ané:

all the thing. Yeah. Cause I was like, I wanted him to know that like, Thank you for treating me like a human. You know what I mean?

Stacey:

Yeah, yeah.

Ané:

he was like, you know, he's been in, he's been in a car dealership since he was like 16. So, and he's obviously, and he's like mid thirties or like 30. So, and he said, that's the number one thing that he, that like really sells people make mistakes is treating them like numbers and, and, you know, credit cards rather than freaking human beings. And I don't know, I feel like that, That insight has really helped me figure out how to have these conversations. And so I wanted to share it here as well. Like treat people like they are people, because that's at the end of the day, how you're going to have that transaction that feels nurturing and nourishing for both ends.

Stacey:

Actually, this is very true because the way I always say it is I'll say, Okay, it's going to be X amount. Is that okay for you? That's all I put in the email because they say, How much will this be? And I'll say, It'll be this. Is that okay for you? So then they're there. They can say yes or no. If it's not okay, that's fine. You know, and if they want to go ahead, they can go ahead. So. It is nice to just, just to sort of detach your, your self worth from your pricing too, and just to put it out there and say, yep, like, this is it. You can take it or leave it. And it starts to not feel like this hard conversation as much because you're doing it more and you're having that practice at it and eventually it'll get easier.

Ané:

I love that. That's, that's so true. And I feel like this applies with like, anything, you know, friendships, family, like, your partners, like, anything. It's like, okay, this is That's where my standard is going on my expectation or my understanding about this. What is your thoughts on it? And it's like having that conversation. And I think that's the number one way to open up a hard conversation without your brain going into like fight or flight, like, Oh my God, like, you know, and you're like nervous systems getting like really cooked up and you're like trying to keep it cool, but you're not. And. Having saying that like, you know, this is difficult for me to say. I, I hope you can take it with love.

Stacey (2):

Other than the business. Hi conversations that you have to have. Sometimes you need to have these with your friends. And I was living somewhere once where we had two. Kick out the girl who was living with us. And she would have the loudest sex with her boyfriend in this house. It was really weird. That was not the reason we were going to kick her out. She was just erratic. I was sort of a bit scared. For myself and we just, we just thought she, yeah, ended up she had schizophrenia, bipolar. She was not stable. And anyway, we ended up having to sit down one day and say my partner. And I were like, okay, let's sit her down. And we're going to tell her. And so we sit her down that day and we're all amped up. We're all ready. Right. We sit down and then she says to us, Oh, I'm really sorry, but I'm moving out. I was like, oh, I had to like hide my happiness because yeah. My partner was like, kicking me under the table. He was like, like act better. And I was like, oh no, That's terrible.

Ané:

Your prayers have been answered. Literally.

Stacey (2):

Yeah. And she used to listen to like Sigur ROS, which is like this. Icelandic like wailing music. If, you know, if anyone knows, you know, what I'm

Ané:

Oh my god.

Stacey (2):

while they were having sex in the room, when she moved out, the wall was all like purple, like smudge with all this like purple stuff, which was so weird. But. Anyway. Even though we didn't end up having that really hard conversation. We were going to. And then we ended up having a really, like, it had a huge ripple effect on my life. I ended up. The girl who moved in, ended up becoming a really good friends with her and then her best friend and then her best friends. Boyfriend ended up becoming really good friends. The boyfriend. Ended up getting other girlfriends that I ended up becoming really good friends with. You know, I started working with that company. You know, we went, we've done trips together. Like all these huge ripple effects that happened from that one decision. So you think to yourself, I've got to make this really hard choice right now. But in future, even though you can't see a future, you can't predict that far. You know that there's going to be. Really good outcomes. If you just trust in it and you take that leap when you go. And you can just like psych yourself out, whether this be quitting, your job. Whether this be moving into an apartment. Whether this is. You know, telling a friend that you need more from them. It's you know, or your partner now. Having these hard conversations of things that are on your mind. If they're on your mind, you need to say them out loud and they need to be said. Because if we don't, I feel like they just fester inside of us. And then we're just going to feel really strange. And we're going to be in this state of dis-ease and it's not going to be. Harmonious to live like that.

Ané:

yeah, that I love that you brought up that like the ripples on both ends like either the good ripples of like, you know, it's like a catalyst of meeting new people and being more in alignment with these people and the actual the other ripple of not speaking your truth or like what you want to speak about or have a conversation. Also ripples negatively in yourself internally, but also externally with the people around you, like maybe, you know, and that's like resentment is one of them, like the most. One of the most like, you know, negative emotions that you can conquer and have is, you know, resentment and like that can bleed in relationships, not even like partnerships, like you can have in friends as well and family. And that's such a detriment to having a harmonious relationship. And so I love that you brought it up on both. And I think that, that, That's the question you need to ask yourself before having this hard conversation. Is it like, a, is it led with love? B, does it actually, is it actually the highest good of all, like at the end of the day, if after you've had this conversation and see, like, you know, can you see that this can be an equal, respectful, like encounter essentially. And I think at the, yeah, that's how I would really some, like, Audit it before having that hard conversation. And one thing I remember a friend saying to me about having a hard conversation, she's really said like, don't sleep on the energetics with this. So what I mean is like really visualize and imagine like your, your highest self, you know, your most purest lovable form of your highest self that wants the most highest outcome for all. Have that hard conversation with the other higher self, that person, like truly meditate on that, really call the higher self in and like really build this imagination of the you two having this conversation and it having the best outcome of all. And I've done this a couple of times. Prior to having hard conversations, especially the ones that you really resist. Like, yeah, you could talk about rates and then, you know, if it doesn't go well, oh, well onto the next. But there's other ones that you're going to find you're so resistant on and maybe sit with it for a week or a couple of days and have this like, you know, five to 10 minute meditation of you both. Having this conversation and it is so beautiful and it blossoms and it ripples in the most positive way. And then I think once you actually do it physically and practically even if it doesn't go exactly like you did in the meditation, I do believe that there is this like, you know, power within us that can really anchor them into the best possible realization or intentionality with it. So yeah, that's something that I would also recommend. Yeah. Yeah.

Stacey (2):

when you said for the highest outcome of all, I liked how you said audit it. Before you say it and then think about the highest outcome for all. And also when I'm thinking about like the highest timeline. I'm also thinking our highest timeline isn't necessarily the things that we want for ourselves. But it is for our highest good. It's not necessarily the thing that we think. This is what I want, but our highest timeline, isn't always what we want. It, it can, you know, it can be something else. And we, we must allow sometimes for the universe to surprise and delight us in that way. So that. We let go of the outcome of everything all the time. And the other thing that I was thinking was, would you rather. Death by a thousand cuts or would you rather a bullet to the head? So when you're talking to somebody and you, you feel really bad, you think, oh, like, I don't really want to hurt this person. But do you want to just, you know, deliver those thousand cuts? Would you just want to get over and done in one? Go. I would prefer it, to be honest to me from somebody. And not for someone to pretend and lie and be weird. And. I would just much rather know. Where we are and where we're at, then even if it, if it feels painful, Then for it to just be weird and hanging out there and then not knowing. And. Oh, Yeah.

Ané:

Yeah. And that's, that's like, I love that you mentioned like the analogy of the death by a thousand cuts. Like exactly that. It's at the end of the day, it's like, would you rather, and this is what happens like with dating, you know, when you start dating and then you're like, Oh, I don't see it going moving forward. And then it's like, you leave them on because like they give you some sort of like validation or whatever the thing is. It's, it's like. Do you want to expand and evolve in that moment? Or do you want to just keep running the same pattern? And this is actually where we get these moments, these nudges from the universe to be like, come on, let's, let's, let's expand here and let's do the right thing and not leave them on a lot, you know, Play this game just because you're getting something, but long term it's actually because I, you know, you reap what you sow at the end of the day. And I think this is like a huge benefit with having hard conversations. And yeah, sometimes it isn't a timeline that you really wanted to go down because maybe there is a couple of hiccups, but it's for the highest good of all. It's for the highest good for everyone around you. And it's for your evolution. So it's kind of like, it's kind of a game. Like, I feel like when you get those hard conversations, like it's like at the end of the level, you know, the end of the level was like always a little, like really hard and you either like die or you have to redo it again until you can pass that. I feel like the hard conversation is there, like what do you have it? It's like next, next stage, next level, you know.

Stacey (2):

Yeah. And isn't that why we're all here ultimately is for our expansion and our growth. And as long as we're expanding and growing, even if it's not necessarily. Oh, I wanted to win the lottery and I wanted a million dollars and I wanted, you know, that pool in the backyard or whatever. That thing is. You've got to just trust that your growth and expansion is for your highest good. Even when it feels really painful sometimes because we can't really go through life, just avoiding pain, because nothing will ever happen if we completely avoid pain because. Pain is so fundamental to living. It gives us that contrast. And. I just think that the more and more we, we have a good relationship with pain and we acknowledge that things are hard and we do them anyway. And we have those hard conversations. I think the better off we will be for it.

Ané:

Beautifully said. I love that. And I think that's the thing, you know, there's people that like always complain and they always negative. And like, I feel like we get those, we get those like moments where of course, life is not always going to be rainbow and sunshines. Like, of course, there's going to be the polarity and the contrast that we're talking about. But I think that that's a sign that like, Is it a hard conversation that you need to have? Is it a moment of you really stepping in your power and putting the right up? Is it a moment for you to go and shift some things in your life like that? So that you don't stay stuck in that negative, always complaining, always boo me victim mentality. You know what I mean? Like that's possibly the signs that you get. And yeah, I, I, I don't know, this is just what I'm thinking out loud, but

Stacey (2):

Yeah. Yeah. I love that. Ah, I feel like that is a good place to wrap up the episode. I hope that there were some golden nuggets in here for you. Take what you need. Leave the rest. As we say. And thank you so much for being here.

Ané:

Thank you guys for listening. Of course it will mean the world to us if we got some stuff, some ratings on, I think it's Apple podcast. And then, yeah, like if you guys want to email us with any questions or any stories, we'd love to share and love to, you know, support you in any way, shape or form. Please share, you know, any episodes with your friends, with your family, if they go through hard times, have a hard conversation, hopefully this will inspire them to. To lead with love and to have those conversations.

Stacey (2):

Yeah. Beautiful. Thank you so much for listening and we see you on the next episode.

Ané:

Bye guys.