Two IPs In A Pod
Brilliant inventions, fresh product designs, iconic brand names and artistic creativity are not only the building blocks of successful business - they deliver a better world for us all. But these valuable forms of intellectual property must be protected in order to flourish. We are the Chartered Institute of Patent Attorneys - the UK's largest intellectual property organisation. Our hosts Lee Davies and Gwilym Roberts chat with entrepreneurs, creatives, patent attorneys and the occasional judge about how patents, trade marks, designs and copyright can improve our lives and solve problems for humanity.
Two IPs In A Pod
Championing Diversity: IP Inclusive's 10-Year Journey
A decade of transforming the intellectual property landscape through inclusion, allyship, and community building, that's the remarkable journey of IP Inclusive we explore in this episode with founder Andrea Brewster.
What makes IP Inclusive unique is its ground-up development, responding to the genuine needs of professionals rather than imposing initiatives from above. This approach has fostered the creation of thriving communities including Women in IP, IP Out for LGBTQ+ professionals, IP and Me for those from minority ethnic backgrounds, IP Ability supporting disabled professionals and carers, and IP Futures for early-career individuals. Each community evolved naturally and embraces allies, a concept that's been vital for engaging those in positions of influence.
- IP Inclusive fundraising: https://ipinclusive.org.uk/ip-inclusive-fundraising/
- IP Inclusive six communities: (https://ipinclusive.org.uk/community/)
- Their flagship event looking at how approaches to EDI are changing and how they can keep up the momentum: "The Case for EDI: Why we need to continue" on 4th November, see https://ipinclusive.org.uk/events/the-case-for-edi-why-we-need-to-continue/.
Join us on the eve of Congress 2025: IP and AI for an evening of networking. The event is hosted by the CIPA EDI Committee by the invitation of the Congress Committee. Book your place here.
Yeah, I mean, IP inclusive has to be the crowning glory. And what a nice way to finish the career that I'm not working in IP anymore, but I'm still working with the people. Lee Davis and Gwilym Roberts are the two IPs in a pod and you are listening to a podcast on intellectual property brought to you by the Chartered Institute of Patent Attorneys the Chartered Institute of Patent.
Speaker 2:Attorneys, how's things with you? All good, all good. Yes, I think I've told you before the podcast. I was in a late-night chemist looking for antibiotics last night for a three-year-old, so it's good to be back there, excellent. Yeah, we've all been there at various parental phases, I know.
Speaker 3:We probably shouldn't go through the chemist stories because mine's I think I've told a podcast before. Do you want to tell it again? Go on when? I think the first proper holiday we took the girls away on, and so Evie had never had chicken box when she was younger. In fact she did, and the one or two minor little spots that she had were chicken box, but didn't know at the time. And it meant that we were just getting on. In fact she did, and the one or two minor little spots that she had were chickenpox, but didn't know at the time. And it meant that we were just getting on the plane to fly out and she was complaining about an itch on her side and by the time we'd got into. Well, we were on a Greek island, I can't remember which one.
Speaker 3:By the time we got to a Greek island, it started to become kind of a row of blisters around her trunk and up around her back. So it turned out she had childhood shingles, which is quite, quite rare. Tends to happen when you get chickenpox as a baby, but it doesn't really develop into anything. But it meant it meant that I had to get the local gp, who obviously came to the complex and uh saw evie and that and uh prescribed that we'd need to um get zibirax to treat it and also very kindly had a conversation with our gp back in the uk just to make sure that that was the right thing to do and stuff the medical side all really, really good. But you can't buy Zivirax or get it on prescription in any great quantity on a Greek island. So he had to drive me around various Greek pharmacies, take me in. So the first one, the woman, disappeared, a shop full of a chemist, fullreek greek people, and came out shouting um cream for the man with herpes. Should we get andrea on at that stage in the proceedings?
Speaker 2:I thought, if you change, we could change this a tiny bit and then get andrea on. No, let's just do it, you're right hey, andrea, how are you?
Speaker 1:I'm all right, lee, I am beginning to wonder if I'm doing the wrong podcast, but that's familiar to most of our guests.
Speaker 2:We have almost you almost certainly have. We've. We decided a long time ago, but people keep coming.
Speaker 3:So big year for you, Andrea, big year for IP Inclusive. I was going to say you're almost 10 years old, but you're not, obviously. But IP Inclusive is 10 years old.
Speaker 1:IP Inclusive is 10 years old, although it's hard to sort of put a starting point on IP Inclusive because it sort of all grew a bit randomly from very humble beginnings.
Speaker 3:I'm not quite sure when it became an ip inclusive, but we're calling it 10 years I remember an event it was, I think it was in old super offices, in so in the old hall, and there were a number of us around the table and we were talking about all things, diversity, and I don't know whether that was the first or one of the first, or maybe just me misremembering stuff, and that is the first, and it started out as just hey, let's, let's, seeper, pull lots of people together from the ip sector to chat about important things.
Speaker 1:So we did one of these roundtables on promoting the uk ip professions abroad. But this one was about is diversity in IP a problem? If so, do we want to do something about it, and can we do that together? And we pulled together lots of invitees from different parts of the UK IP sector and we just hit a nerve, I think you know people came along to chat about diversity and suddenly everyone was interested in it. Everyone wanted to do something we had I don't know if you remember this, baroness Neville Rolfe.
Speaker 3:Do you remember? Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Actually invited herself along. She was the IP minister at the time and she was so keen on the idea.
Speaker 3:With a blue flash in her hair.
Speaker 1:Yeah, she came like really clashed with the Red Wolves at Seapert Do you remember those awful bright Red Wolves? So she came along with her blue streak and the red walls and did us a lovely little keynote speech, following which we all felt, yes, we need to do something about diversity. And all of a sudden, things were happening. It was brilliant.
Speaker 3:Sometimes it's just about the time being right, but it's a compilation of factors that you need the time to be right and you need people. People are prepared to make things happen, and that was you. You wasn't it. I mean, without your sort of foresight on this, without your drive, it's difficult to see that it really got the traction that it that it ended up having you need all the components.
Speaker 1:You need that bulldozer. Yeah, so I was that.
Speaker 1:I don't know lots of people did, but you also need a room full of really enthusiastic people who are prepared to volunteer to do stuff, and we also I mean your role in it was important, lee, because SIPA supported it every step of the way and SIPA was sending out these vibes that, yes, this is the right thing to do, yes, we want to back this and we will give it a home until it's ready to float free. So without the home at seaport, ip inclusive arguably wouldn't have been the success it is. So all these components- have to go together.
Speaker 3:It's personally important to me, and I know it is to to quilliam too, and I might even let him speak in a moment, but it's um. You know, I was, I was thinking about this this morning, thinking about the podcast, and to me. So, edi, however you want to frame it, can be incredibly complex, kind of when you start to think about all of the various ways in which different impacts on people's lives and how that impacts on their relationships, their working lives, their friendships and all these kinds of things. And it could also be, and for me, incredibly simple, and for me, for me, incredibly simple, and for me it's incredibly simple because I just want to be the kind of person who helps people lead the best minds they can. That's it. That that to me, that to me, is my take on this, and I don't understand why the whole world can't be the same.
Speaker 2:Don't get it yeah, I know what you mean it's now when I speak yeah please go on I mean I, I think I got involved a little bit later, um, and I think, andrew, you actually basically grabbed hold of me and said we do more, which is brilliant. I thank you. That was exactly the right thing. Um, with your bulldozer pincers, if you wish, wish. I think you're not a bull Zee, you're a snake charmer, or a lion tamer, I don't know, I'm not sure I'd prefer that actually With pincers, yeah, with an effective scorpion.
Speaker 1:Can you stop? This it's going in the wrong direction. I'm sorry.
Speaker 2:I'm trying really hard but failing. But no, you do this brilliant job of bringing people along. I think what you're really good at is identifying the right people who've got the energy. So getting Lee in. You know, once you've got his interest, you can't get rid of him. So you know, I think you did the right thing there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I worked out early on that the best way to get Lee to do something for you was to sort of put it in terms of a challenge. It was to say I bet we can't do this, can we? I bet this would be too difficult and like two days later, he'd have spent his entire night working on it and it would be done.
Speaker 2:Hey, should you and me do another podcast without Lee about how to work? Lee, this would be great.
Speaker 1:No, we shouldn't give the secrets away.
Speaker 2:But more recently. I mean, it's just the momentum has been amazing and you've got so many different threads now and so many things going on. It's quite fantastic because I was going to maybe just ask you to give us a little kind of potted history of the 10 years and how you've seen it develop and you know what you've learned. Really, I suppose it's.
Speaker 1:It's a really hard one, macmillan, because it has grown sort of politely you could call it organ, but what that actually means is randomly, but importantly, it's sort of grown from the ground up. So nobody has actually sat at the top even me as the bulldozer, and said we are going to do this, that and the other. It's more been a case of people saying we think we should do this, we'd like to do this, we can help with that, and you sort of pull all these threads together and that's the direction you go in, because that's where people want to go, and I think that's helped it succeed, because it has been driven from the ground up by the very people that are putting all the hard work into it and ultimately, hopefully, going to benefit from it. I mean, we've had a funny old 10 years. We've had some difficult periods where we didn't know quite what type of structure we were going to adopt.
Speaker 1:To start with it was all very, very loose and sort of parent teachers association, and then it got to the point where we perhaps had to be a bit more grown up and have our own bank account. And then people start mentioning governance and it all gets a bit tricky. So we went through those teething problems gets a bit tricky, so we went through those teething problems. But I think what we've got now is a really, really strong setup where we're working in partnership with lots of IP sector bodies, like our founding members, like CIPA and SIPMA, but we've also got that independence. So, for instance, as the political landscape is getting more tricky now, ip inclusive can still be there, sitting apart from everything else, and it can still provide support because of what it is, and I think the kind of maturity that IP Inclusive has gained over the 10 years has put it in a really good position to serve the whole sector from here on.
Speaker 2:And the network as well. So you know, as you say, it's grown that you've got those enthusiasts in. But quite often those enthusiastic people tend to be also in positions of reasonable influence, because it's enthusiasm that possibly got them where they are in other parts of their life as well. So I think that's been quite useful too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and we've worked hard to make sure that everybody feels able to get involved and to make sure that all the big IP sector organisations, the membership bodies, the regulator, the intellectual property office, to make sure that all of those are part of what's going on. So you can't have something happen with diversity and inclusion in our space now without IP inclusive being involved, and that's a really good position for us to be in. It means we can speak out for lots of people who need us.
Speaker 3:And that's the litmus test isn't it. Whenever we have conversations now about diversity in the IP space, it's always where's IP inclusive on this. That's a testament to how embedded it is now in the IP space. It's always where's IP inclusive on this. That's a testament to how embedded it is now in the IP ecosystem?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think so, which is a huge responsibility, but it means that we can really enjoy what we're doing, knowing, a, that there's a lot of support and, b that it stands a better chance of being effective.
Speaker 3:So you mentioned the political context and we do, on the podcast, try and steer away from any sort of big P political stuff. So perhaps talk more about where society is currently around this. It's quite a challenging time at the moment, isn't it? For EDI. We look around the world and perspectives are changing. We look in the UK and we see stuff that's happening in the UK that's perhaps making us think differently, changing. We look in the uk and we see stuff that's happening in the uk that's perhaps making us think differently. But deep down there is this sense for me certainly that we've still got a huge amount of work to do to make people feel included in the ip profession society in general, and that doesn't go away I think that's right.
Speaker 1:I think a year ago I might have been in a slightly different position, thinking, oh, you perhaps were nearly there is there still going to be work for us to do in the next two to five years?
Speaker 1:But you're right now. It's become clear in the last 12 months that there still is a lot of work to do and that work is actually increasing as we go. And it's a shame, in a way, that people are thinking of it as political, because what's happening is not really political. It's not about who's in power and what economic policies they're adopting. This is about human beings and how we treat them. It's about our society's ethics, general fairness, how we treat our fellow human beings and whether we include them, whether we respect them, and that's really not a political thing and it's a shame it's been weaponized by some in that context, but it is something it's definitely happening. Things are going downhill and we all need to respond to that. We all need to step up to the plate if we still care about building that nice, mature society where everybody matters and you'd like to think that this is just another challenge along the way, wouldn wouldn't you?
Speaker 3:It couldn't always be good. There were always going to be times when, perhaps, circumstances were a bit tougher and we ride it out.
Speaker 1:I think that's right. Yeah, I think there's enough of us who care enough about the fundamentals that we will ride it out. I think we may have to perhaps use different terminology at certain times, we might have to do things in a slightly different way. But you know, I think inclusive is in a unique position because this is what we do diversity and inclusion, in particular inclusion. So we just carry on doing it and we are there as a safe space when everything else is falling around us. You know, if your individual employer is not able to do as much on the EDI front as it used to, well, ip Inclusive is still here, showing that the sector as a whole cares.
Speaker 3:I was having an interesting conversation last night with some colleagues I won't say who, that's not fair on the podcast and it was about how perhaps perspective that firms take now might be different. For the last decade or so firms have been used, particularly if they're looking for business in the States. Their pitches have had to be very inclusive. They've had to give out very strong messages about how inclusive they were as an organization, as a business, and they feel from those that I spoke to yesterday, that that's changed for them. They've not changed as businesses. They still want to be inclusive, but they're conscious that in some circumstances their language needs to change because it's not well received, and that's that's. That's quite. That's quite tough for a space like ip, where it is a business to business relationship, and that's and it's global?
Speaker 1:yeah, it is.
Speaker 1:It's a really difficult one for employers because there's there's messaging these are big clients.
Speaker 1:There's there's messaging vis-a-vis clients. There's messaging in the sort of compliance context you know where is your risk going to come from if you say the wrong things to the wrong people. But there's also messaging vis-a-vis your staff, who want to hear that you still care about diversity, because otherwise you've just been paying lip service to it all these years and that's not going to impress them and you need to keep your staff. You need to keep them well A employed with you, not moving on elsewhere, but you also need to keep them motivated and productive and generally comfortable. So it's really difficult balancing all those different decisions and ways of messaging, and IP Inclusive is hoping to pull together an event soon where the senior people in the profession can perhaps get together a very informal chat and house round table and just have a chat about what are the issues for IP sector employers at the moment. In this context, how are we going to message things and how are we going to protect ourselves whilst also sticking to our principles?
Speaker 2:Can I plug that time a bit more, actually, because that's quite exciting. We've been talking about how that might go, and I think we're looking at two real questions, which is, to the extent I can influence it, what does my organisation do? And then, from a personal perspective, what might I do or might I avoid as well. So I think it should be a really interesting one actually.
Speaker 1:That's probably going to be November time, isn't it?
Speaker 3:So you've got plenty of time to it and how we can help For me because IP Inclusive sits I don't know how to explain this sits outside of the kind of core IP world but also spans it, so it's always sort of like it encompasses it. In that sense, it's always for us been the forum where we could have these difficult conversations and I think that's been one of its greatest achievements, I think, is providing the place where we can talk like we're talking now and be challenged and be stretched and all of those kinds of things where we can talk like we're talking now and be challenged and be stretched and all of those kinds of things.
Speaker 1:We're really proud of the fact that we've been looking at what are the biggest impacts we've had over the last 10 years, because it's a nice thing to look back on as you reach this anniversary and we're going to put out an impact report which sort of pulls together all the ideas about where our stakeholders think we've been successful. But starting difficult conversations and, more importantly, providing safe spaces for them to continue has been a key part of what we've done. And another thing I think has contributed to our success over the 10 years is we're kind of a unique blend of the pan-professional but the sector-specific, if you know what I mean. So it's for anyone who works in the IP professions, no matter what their role or their background. So that's the pan-professional bit. But because we're sector-specific, everything we talk to one another about, everything we learn from one another, can be focused and relevant, and so we're sort of bringing people together from a wide space but in a very structured way, and I think that's helped us reach the position we're in now.
Speaker 2:We talked a bit about and Lee mentioned this as well there's always going to be adjustments and shifts and everything else, and you could look at this whole DEI or whatever movement as a kind of a pendulum. It's obviously swung back a bit. Do you feel it's swung back beyond where you all started, andrea, or in a better place holistically than we were 10 years ago?
Speaker 1:It's definitely not swung back to where we started. So we can we can take comfort from that. I mean, I don't know if you remember, lee, but back in 2015, when we held that first round table, there were a lot of people who said why are you holding a meeting about diversity? What's the problem?
Speaker 1:yeah, remember there were those who suspected there might be a problem but didn't have a clue how to tackle it and were worried about doing so. We have come on in leaps and bounds as a sector and also as a wider community. I think our society does look at diversity and inclusion differently now and, importantly, the next generation does, and they're going to be our flag bearers, I think, and that's why it still has to be relevant to IP sector employers, because your future talent is going to come from a generation that does notice these things, that does care about these things. So, yeah, we're in a much better place even now, even through this somewhat turbulent time, we're better off than we were in 2015. I mean in 2015, I suppose a lot of this nasty stuff that's happening people might not have batted an eyelid about in 2015 that's actually.
Speaker 2:Thank you for that. I didn't know what your answer was going to be and I was quite nervous when I asked the question, so I was really heartened by that answer. Thank you, it's good. It's your point, lee, isn't it? Things are always going to correct and adjust and things like that, but the direction of travel is good, which is really important. I was going to ask if I might actually about.
Speaker 2:You mentioned the organic growth of ip inclusive and uh, that's what that's part of its charm. I think that means it's natural and it's responding to needs rather than, you know, being orchestrated, which can push things in in weird directions. But one thing I love about um ip inclusive is whenever I go to the website, I always remind myself of the various um, the various communities that you've you've built up. Well, no, like I say not that I think that's built up within ip inclusion is probably the the best way to put that, and some of them certainly 10 years ago I don't I can completely see would have not such raised an eyebrow, just have people scratching, thinking, never even thought about that one.
Speaker 1:So it's quite exciting to see that grow yeah, I think the communities are, in some ways, one of the best parts of what we've achieved and that they have grown from the ground up as well. So we we have not decided we'll have a community on something. We've waited for people to say we'd like to have a community on this and we're prepared to put it together. Okay, ip inclusive will support. For a while we had a community for non-traditional family members and that was there when it was needed and then, when it was no longer needed to the same extent, it ceased to become an IP inclusive community. So that's a nice sort of that's a natural way of developing. Nothing's enforced. In the same way, we started out very tentatively with a working group looking at perimenopause support a couple of years ago and that gained so much momentum that it became a formal community and is now IPORS. So, again, responding to what people were saying on the ground Back in 2015, you just thought, okay, diversity, you're probably going to have a women in IP group, fair enough. And we did and we have done and it's very, very strong. They might have thought you'd have something for people from what they called BAME backgrounds back then. Yeah, we have IP and me for people from minority ethnic backgrounds, but the others, yeah, it was less clear they were going to emerge.
Speaker 1:I think IP Out has been a huge success story because I think in 2015, there were LGBTQ plus professionals in IP, almost certainly, but they didn't talk about it. And suddenly there's a group of people who say, okay, we are prepared to step up to the platform and talk about this and support other people in the same boat. Suddenly, there was IP Out. They had this most fantastic launch event I mean, they know how to party and there were feather boas and Darren Smith wore his multicoloured technicolour waistcoat and we had that fabulous event. But it was a point at which people in IP realised, oh, there is a place for me here and I can talk about it and I can find other people in similar, similar positions. So you know, real success story there the ip ability one as well.
Speaker 2:I think again, neurodiversity.
Speaker 1:I'm not sure I'd heard that phrase 10 years ago no, no, we didn't talk about neurodiversity 10 years ago, um. So disability support heaps better now, thanks to the hard work that ip ability are doing, and a big part of that is supporting people who are neurodivergent in some way, and also carers, you know, often the forgotten people who weren't given particular support. They're being championed as well by ip ability, and then we've got ip futures who are sort of looking after people in the early stages of their careers. So there's a real, really nice suite of support networks here, and the great thing is A that they're all open to allies and always have been.
Speaker 1:So women in IP is for people of all genders, so long as they care about the issues that affect those that identify as women. Ip and Me is there for white allies as well as people from minority ethnic backgrounds. So they're all open to allies and that gives you this wonderful intersectional kind of approach to diversity, which means everyone can be involved somewhere in some way. We can all be allies to someone somehow, and they also work together and they do a lot of things together our communities and that's made them stronger in aggregate lot of things together our communities and that's made them stronger in aggregate.
Speaker 2:I've always thought that concept ally which again 10 years ago I wouldn't have known about has allowed the movement to be adopted by everybody in a way that was difficult before, when you could identify a minority that you basically belong to, which is like me and I won't speak for you, lee, but certainly me I've always been bang in the middle of the bell curve in terms of, you know, all the normal flags apply to me, as they were, so it's brilliant to have this allyship concept.
Speaker 1:It's really important that those people feel they've got a role here and help us out, because historically those are the people that did tend to occupy the positions of power. So unless we've got them on board as well, we're just, you know, we're beating against a brick wall. So it's so important to have the allies helping out, because the people in the positions of relative privilege are best placed to to make positive changes unconscious privilege.
Speaker 2:That's what we were talking about, wasn't it?
Speaker 1:I remember yeah, I think people are becoming more conscious now of privilege and privilege is not to make positive changes. Unconscious privilege that's what we were talking about, wasn't it? I remember? Yeah, I think people are becoming more conscious now of privilege, and privilege is not such an it needn't be such an emotive thing. Yes, I have privileges that I recognise relative to people who are disabled, people in all sorts of other positions, but equally, there are people who have privileges relative to me, and that's how intersectionality works.
Speaker 2:We all help one another to the the other thing, as I mentioned quickly, lee and I actually was chatting to Andrea about 45 minutes ago, so I'm kind of teed up a little bit is that you were saying, andrea, that kind of allyship has been a big theme for you guys over the last couple of years, like you said, but you're shifting now. You're shifting the focus a little bit.
Speaker 1:You were saying Towards the end of our two-year business plan, which get more challenging out in the wider world. What's really going to be important about IP Inclusive is it provides that safe and supportive community for individual IP professionals. So there will be a change of focus. Watch this space.
Speaker 3:So that was going to be my question. Let's roll it back a wee bit. It may be about 10 minutes ago. You talked about the celebratory things that ip inclusive are doing. So how are you mark in the 10 years, what are the activities that ip inclusive will be involved in this year that are about celebration? Because it feels like we started to send a little bit of a downer in terms of thinking about the current climate and stuff. So let's, yeah, let's, let's move it up.
Speaker 1:B so we've got a working group that's um been putting together ideas for ways we can celebrate on the limited budget that we have. You know what can we do? That's going to have a big impact to make everyone feel really celebratory. And our annual meeting on 2nd of April was the start of that really and it was a wonderful occasion. It was a little bit longer than our usual annual meetings and a bit more special and we had a proper panel discussion and lots and lots of deliberation of the things that the communities have been up to and how strong ip inclusive felt, even in the wake of what's going on around. So that was a nice starting point.
Speaker 1:Caris bello and fellows and associates have kindly designed us a new anniversary logo, which you may have seen, and then super kindly paid for that to be put on a banner that we can take along proudly to our events and things. We had cupcakes with the logo on at the annual event. These sound like little things but they, they all sort of make us feel a little bit more celebratory. And then over the course of the year we've we did an impact uh survey not long ago of our charter signatories and individual supporters and we're going to put together an impact report based on that, and I think the theme will loosely be 10 years, 10 impacts, 10 really good things that IP Inclusive has managed to achieve in those 10 years, and then, hopefully towards the end of the year, we can start some discussions about OK, so 10 things we're going to do going forward, 10 things we can commit to to keep the momentum.
Speaker 1:So there will be, hopefully, things like this podcast. There will be other podcasts if we can organise them. There will be some events. We have a coffee roulette in the offing for later in the year. We're writing about the anniversary wherever we can. You know if anyone who's prepared to publish us will write or speak about it, but it's. It's generally about sort of reflecting on the impact that we've had and how we can build on that. What's going to be important about our priorities, which I think have become particularly important because of what's happening on happening outside. That's a bit of a waffly answer, isn't it? We're trying to stay positive and this is a good hook to have for us.
Speaker 3:It was a waffly answer but also tantalising hooks that you're not going to let us have, are you? We're going to be talking about these 10 great achievements, but I'm not going to tell you now. We're going to be thinking about the 10 great things we know of the future, but not going to tell you just yet.
Speaker 1:Absolutely yes, you've got to keep people interested. But I think something else that comes out of this somewhat waffly and random answer is that IP Inclusive has very few resources. So everything we do we do on a shoestring. So we're having to look at things which give us a bit more bang for our buck, really, and we're involving lots of volunteers wherever we can to do things for free, because they too want to celebrate.
Speaker 3:Is there more that we can do by way of fundraising, generating income?
Speaker 1:I think, just to keep on asking, in particular, the companies that work in this sector. I know things are tight on the EDI budget front, but if you want a really cost-effective way of spending what little edi budget you have left, ip inclusive is where it should go, because you need us to keep going. I think the ip sector needs ip inclusive to keep going to get us through the storm, and it can only keep going if the businesses that care about it and whose employees use it help to fund it.
Speaker 2:If people were interested in doing such a thing, where do they look to find out? Can we stick it in the blurb as well? I think, lee, I guess.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, we can definitely put links in the blurb.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we've got a fundraising page on the website, or people can just email contact at ipinclusiveorguk and just, yeah, I'd like to make a donation, we'll do the rest.
Speaker 2:We also have a just giving page for individual donations, but it's all on the fundraising page of the website thank you, and it is a great place to put it, and also the coordination um, I was always worries me when charitable slash, your well-meaning organizations end up competing with each other. I think, using the great work that IP Inclusive has done and linking in If you've got an initiative in this area, I think my comment is always the first thing We'll check in with IP Inclusive and find out what's going on so that we have collaboration, not competition, kind of part of this community idea that you're talking about. I think.
Speaker 1:But equally, you know, don't take us for granted. We can't survive without the funding and the support and the volunteers that are here. So if you need the ip inclusive to be there in the background to turn to when things get tough, there is a bit of a cough to it. Um, you know, help if you can just actually one quick sales point.
Speaker 2:I think for me really is that I think ip inclusive is actually a bit of a flagship to the uk ip community more broadly because it's I think it's quite famous worldwide and it's kind of absolute trailblazer. I think that I'm not I still don't know if there's any other national organization or the lone regional that has something quite like this. Have you come across?
Speaker 1:yeah, the, the australian patent attorneys representative body, did get in touch a few years back and say we, you know, we'd like to set up a model similar to ip inclusive and I don't know how far they've got with that, but we offered a bit of support and guidance where we could. Yeah, the impression I'm getting is that other countries don't have a similar model and it may be that exactly the same structure wouldn't work else in the same way elsewhere. But to have that sort of pan-professional but sector-specific thing, I don't know. I think the uk is leading the way there.
Speaker 2:We can be proud of that it has to be it almost has to be structural, because I've had conversations around the world on this kind of topic over the last few years and everybody's got a different take on what's important and what's and it's so cultural, what the key, key elements are for different places. But what is important that this organisation brings is that it can be done and you can deal with that difference very easily, but the structure and the energy, and long may it stay. A PTA, by the way, a Parent Teacher Association, is lovely.
Speaker 1:This is an interesting point though, gwilym, because I'm not sure that will translate to every country. You talked about the cultural differences. The UK really understands this sort of volunteer thing that we do things on a shoestring and everyone does stuff for free. It's the old wartime spirit, isn't it? But I'm not sure that would translate into every other jurisdiction, so maybe we've got the edge there.
Speaker 3:I've got a closer question and that would take things on a little bit longer.
Speaker 2:No, no, no, we've got a closer. We always have a closer. I'm glad you've got one. I had an idea in the end, but I'm glad you've got one.
Speaker 3:Oh, did you? Do you want to say your idea was?
Speaker 2:No, because I think you it was no, unless it's yours. I'm just going to say oh, for goodness sake, I had that one, but go, go, go.
Speaker 3:I've never tried to remember what it was because I've just been talking. Now it's kind of like slipped out of my pea brain, which is quite a good brain to have on a two eyed peas podcast yeah, you could have written.
Speaker 2:You should write things down. I should?
Speaker 3:I should write things down, shouldn't I? I should, I should pop it in the chat to you. I forgot to do that. I may not have a closer now it's gone. Do I do mine then?
Speaker 2:yeah, go on fine and you kind of you kind of close off a little bit, but that's cool, that's fine, I'm good. Which was? Uh, andrea, as lee picked up, you mentioned that you know, you, the 10 great things you've done in 10 years. I was going to ask you what the best one was, but it sounds like that's going to be a secret. That's a teaser for later, so I'm not going to do that. But in a similar way, lee, what's the best thing you've done the last 10 years?
Speaker 3:the best thing I've done in the last 10 years. Oh wow, so so many things. Uh, do you know what? I'm going to be really boring willem, and it's going to. You're going to hate this, but it's cptpp brilliant. That stands out for me professionally to have to have been involved in that work and to deliver the right outcome for the uk profession will always be something I'll be fiercely proud of. So, yeah, you don't get.
Speaker 2:You don't get a humorous one for me this time around well, yeah, you do, because, as far as I'm concerned, what you're most proud of is that you can actually say the acronym in full without hesitating. I think that's what you're most proud of comprehensive and progressive agreement for trans-pacific partnership cptpp that's what you're really proud of in the last 10 years.
Speaker 2:Um, andrea, it doesn't have to be a giveaway for ip inclusive, but what have you got the last 10 years? It could be ip inclusive actually. I think I've got it. I think I know what it is.
Speaker 1:I think it quite possibly is. I mean, I'm proud of a lot of the stuff that I did when I was super president and you and I made that quite an interesting time and there was lots of stuff we changed back then. I really loved the meet, the members visits that we did. They were just something else and to everyone that gave me biscuits and cakes, thank you. I still remember those with fondness. And, yeah, I mean IP inclusive has to be the crowning glory and what a nice way to finish the career.
Speaker 1:I'm not working in IP anymore, but I'm still working with the people in IP that I really value. They're wonderful people. They've shown that through what's happened with IP Inclusive and I think of everything IP Inclusive's done. Just starting the difficult conversations and keeping them going is the underlying thing that's made a difference. Keeping them going is the underlying thing that's made a difference, and organisations like SIPA and SITMA and the IPO they've all helped us with that, as have lots and lots of individual professionals in their firms. So thank you to everyone who's been involved. Really, it's not my work.
Speaker 3:So come on then, gwilym, come on. You only asked that question because you've got an absolute stonker to declare now.
Speaker 2:You've got to have a stonker. Well, I think if I was to say my whole life, I'd feel a bit guilty for not mentioning getting married and having a baby, but they never listen. So I'm not going to bank that one. But no, on the professional world, I think it was working with some awesome people and it was a really noticeable group of people over the pandemic in various different guises with yourself lee, with um managing partner richard harris somewhere at my office, with people at the epo, with the ipo and being part of quite an impressive community who not always just because it was their job title, because they thought it was the right thing and they kept a lot of things going and made things a lot better than they might otherwise have been within the UK kind of IP world over that weird year or two. Looking back, that was a real, genuine global crisis that you know. I was part of a group of people that made, I hope, a little bit of a difference then yeah, that's a good point.
Speaker 3:Almost feels like it's in the dark, distant past now, doesn't it? We've sailed on past that.
Speaker 2:Did it even happen? I remember I'm sure I said something about 2019, I feel like all the big crises are over now. I think I was right.
Speaker 1:It's had a lasting impact, though, and a lot of it for the better.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think so. I think so.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we needed a bit of a reset in some areas, didn't we? And it gave us that yeah, totally that's good hi, andrew. Thank you so much for coming on. William, thank you for pitching up again. It's always good to see you. Hopefully you've enjoyed the podcast. If you have, then just leave us a little review somewhere, and then people will learn where to find us, and that's good.
Speaker 1:We'll see you next time.