Brotherhood Breakdown: Episode 1 (with J.R. Ward)

⚠️ Spoiler Alert!

This PassionPod episode dives deep into Episode One of The Black Dagger Brotherhood with Tosca Musk and very special guest,  J.R. Ward. If you haven’t watched the episode yet, we highly recommend doing so before listening! We’ll be discussing major plot points, character moments, and behind-the-scenes insights that could spoil the experience. Go watch first, then come back for all the juicy details!

In this episode, Tosca Musk (Founder and CEO of Passionflix) and acclaimed author JR Ward discuss the creation and adaptation of The Black Dagger Brotherhood series for Passionflix. They delve into the challenging (yet exhilarating) process of bringing J.R.'s beloved book scenes to life, the intricacies of casting, and the impressive dedication of the actors. From hair-raising transformations and meticulously created sets to the importance of capturing character chemistry and managing detailed consent issues within love scenes, this episode offers a comprehensive behind-the-scenes look at the first episode of The Black Dagger Brotherhood (premiering June 5th). Tune in for fascinating insights and some humorous anecdotes as Tosca and J.R. reflect on their passionate collaboration.

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction to the BDB Companion Episode!
• 0:54 JR Ward's Reaction to Seeing Her Work on Screen
• 2:37 Challenges and Triumphs in Adapting the Book
• 4:56 Casting the Characters
• 9:00 Creating Iconic Scenes
• 13:20 Ensuring Authenticity and Consent
• 16:25 Introducing Mr. X
• 17:14 Introducing Cherry Pie and Butch's Future
• 17:43 Shooting Out of Sequence: Challenges and Triumphs
• 18:23 Olivia's Emotional Rollercoaster
• 19:06 Directing and Rehearsing Scenes
• 20:01 Handling Intimate Scenes with Care
• 22:06 The Chemistry Between Robert and Olivia
• 25:01 Creating Authentic Sets and Locations
• 29:02 The Importance of Attention to Detail
• 32:27 Concluding Thoughts and Teasers for Episode 2

Transcript

Tosca: Hi everyone! This is our first Companion PassionPod that goes along with the Black Dagger Brotherhood. We are discussing episode one today. So if you have not watched episode one, do not listen to this podcast. There are a lot of spoilers. Go watch the episode, then come back and hear me and JR Ward talk about it.

Hello, I am Tosca Musk and I am the Founder and CEO of Passionflix. And welcome to another episode of PassionPod with the awesome JR Ward. 

JR: Hi, my name is JR Ward and I'll be here for comic relief as Tosca douses us with a professional presentation about our joint Passion project. The Black Dagger Brotherhood Series.

Tosca: Brilliant, brilliant. No stress at all. Um, so JR Ward, what was it like seeing your words that you wrote on paper? Uh, being said out loud by characters that we create, 

JR: it really fucked me up. Like, I know, like, all right, like, so I know that I'm supposed to be all professional and shit, but we know how that goes.

It, it really was a cognitive dissonance that I was not prepared for because like, this is dialogue. I can remember specifically writing 20 years ago and now like. It's like this living, breathing thing. And like one of the good things about going with you is that you stay so true to the books. Okay? And that goes, and that's everywhere from the sets to the scripts, to the characters.

I mean, everything. But that also means that there's like, the suspension of disbelief kind of morphs on me because I'm like, well, you got what you wanted. She stuck with the books and now they're like talking. Um, so it was. Great. But I was amazed at how that reaction for that clip that went crazy with me seeing Wrath for the first time.

Yeah. That was so cool. That was an honest reaction. Like my little brain was like, whoa, whoa, whoa. I like, I needed like a minute, you know? Yeah. And I think that that is a testament to you and what you do. Like, like that's such a testament to what Passionflix does. Like if you're an author and you, you put your heart and soul into a book, and then you wanna take it to the screen like you want someone.

To Marco that polo like to, to have that same level of commitment. But it also will fuck you up when it actually happens because it's like, oh, it worked. Oh my gosh. It's Wrath. Yeah. 

Tosca: These people are, are coming out. They're gonna say those lines. They're gonna say those lines. Absolutely. Um, what did you think about, you know, there's so much in. The, in the Black Dagger Brotherhood world, the lore that basically that, that you've created. Um, and so for me it was very important in episode one for us to, um, make sure that certain things were explained. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But so how did you, how did you think we handled that? 

JR: I think you did great because like.

Tosca: We have to say how they died. Yeah. We have to say how they live. We have to say, who's a good guy? We have to say, who's a bad guy? We have to say, right. Uh, what a Shellan is. But I have to say, 

JR: yeah. But then like, also like, um, when, when wrath, like when wrath says as each of the brothers appear and he names them.

Like, and, and I thought that was one of the challenges I think. For you all. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Um, was like, how do you like, because in the book, I've got all the pages, all the words, all the things. Mm-hmm. Um, and, and um, although I have learned that I do need to clear things with you because some of the shit in the book, I can remember when we were doing the scripts, not just for episode one, but for all the episodes.

I'm like, okay, I gotta just touch base with Tosca. 'cause now you were like, well, I'm not sure how we're gonna do this. Yeah, but you did, you did all the things, including my absolute favorite Tosca moment, um, which is when you blew the car. 

Tosca: Oh my god. I was gonna say that. 

JR: That wasn't, oh my god, when you sent me the video.

Yeah. And it was like, and then it explodes and it was like a real explosion. Everything. Yeah. And then all of a sudden there's this like silence and I hear your voice. Go mother. Fucker. I was like, I'm getting to her. 

It's working. It was so great. I was like so impressed. 

Tosca: I, I think I said a few more words, but Yes. Holy mother, something.

JR: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was great though. I mean, and, and that was like, I, you know, seeing, having that in the first episode, 'cause, you know, and the other thing that was really funny is when I wrote the books, I really was just typing out what I'd seen in my head. And, and being able to step back and, and, and see, not just episode one, but all of the episodes.

And I was like, all this book really holds together. Because wrath is like, no, no, I will not get involved with this. Mm-hmm. No, no. And then Darius dies, right? Mm-hmm. And now he's forced to honor the memory of his brother. Yeah. By doing the very thing he did. I was like. Yeah. Oh 

Tosca: yeah. I was like pretty smart.

That was pretty good. Well done. Look at that. You did good. Yeah. Um, but that was, so, so that was also one of the things that I thought was so important for us to, when we, when making this episode was, you know, we have this one moment to get to know. Darius, to me it was like, how do I, um, make Darius so important?

Mm-hmm. Like, so, like, really love him. Yeah. And so it was the hardest character to cast because I had to find, you know, we had to find somebody who, who, when they. When they spoke about Beth, when they spoke about the woman that he loved, that he, you could actually feel his, his 

JR: commitment and his Yeah. His commitment, his pain. Yeah. 

Tosca: And I thought Piotr did an amazing job. 

JR: Oh yeah. He did an amazing job. Yeah. He really did. And he had a quiet strength to stand up to the fierceness of wrath. 

Tosca: Yeah. 

JR: Um, and I, I thought he did a wonderful job. Yeah. And I mean, can we just have a moment to. Glorify may go too far, but I mean, how, what a wonderful job Robert did.

Tosca: Oh my God. 

JR: Like so I will tell you that when you know you were kind enough to share. A ton of auditions with me. Um, and I had a lot to learn about how to judge an actor's performance. And one of the things that's been really cool for me is learning from you. Like when, and I've said this before, like when I think about the number of hours in my life that I've spent consuming visual content, movies, TV series commercials, YouTube, like whatever it is, um, scripted, unscripted, the whole thing.

Um. Understanding how, how difficult it is to judge a performance, to extrapolate, to, to find. And so I learned so much about the casting from you and that was like a really cool, like bonus education for me. Um, but the thing I remember most about. Robert is, when I saw him, I was like, that's wrath. Yeah. Like, like it was like, it was so clear to me.

And then to know that he was trying out for rage and he was like, well, I want to, you know, broaden my horizons and you and I were like, no, no, no, no, no. 

Tosca: We have our, I was like, oh, that was a really nice Rhage audition. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. Um, your wrath and, because you can even just imagine if you had Rhage pretending to be wrath. Like in our, in the, it just, they just, it just, he couldn't do it. No, no, 

JR: no. And the other thing is, is that there was something to be said for him being so effortlessly authoritarian. Yeah. And there is a quietness. Yes. And a composure to Robert and like, even in real life, like not, I mean, I don't know him like you do, but like, like he's just so unflappable and he's actually rather soft spoken, you know?

Very much so. Yeah. And, and so. In that role with WI in costume in that role, his ability to hold silence. Mm-hmm. And you know that there, that is an, that is authority and control personified because everyone else gets quiet around you. It was great anyway. It was great.

Tosca: Yeah. But that's exactly how he was to work with.

So yeah, he would come, he, he's. So incredibly professional, but he comes to set and it takes him like almost two hours to get ready. Right? Because there's a lot of business that goes on. And also you, um, insisted that all of our brothers have no hair on their body. So I forgot it daily. Oh gosh. They had to shave.

Oh geez. Their whole body. 

JR: Oh, I didn't even do the math on that. 

Tosca: Whole bodies, a whole body didn't top to bottom. 

JR: Oh my gosh. Except for their hair. 

Tosca: And so, um, so they had to do that. Oh my 

JR: god, how did I not do the math on that? 

Tosca: Like, okay. It's pretty funny. Um, so, and then he has like tattoos and wig and all these things and, and so he had a lot to go through every day, but he comes.

Quietly. Sits there in the chair, gets ready, goes through all his things, and then comes to sit and then I'm there preparing, directing whatever else might be happening just before he comes to set. And, um, and then you'll just turn around and be like, you're right. Oh, you're right there. Oh, oh, you're right there.

You sitting next to me for like, the last 30 minutes and he's just quietly? Yep. Yep. He's ready. I'm ready. 

JR: He's wonderful. Um, I think also for me, Olivia was so clearly my Beth. Yeah. And I can remember we looked at like six or seven actresses Yeah. For that. And there was just something about she has this power.

Tosca: Yeah. 

JR: Um, and, and we needed a foil. Uh, for, and, and, and, and I think those scenes with Billy Riddle, and I remember seeing those, those scenes in my head and, and when I watched what You All did, I was amazed at how close it is. And then of course, Butch, he is butch to me. And that scene where he grinds Billy Riddle's face into like, into the ugh, loved it.

It was one of my most satisfying scenes in the whole series. 

Tosca: Yeah. Every time I watch that. Scene. Yeah. Because of the sound. Yeah. That's in there. Oh, the crack and the blood smear on the ground. Yeah. Um, I cringe. I mean like the whole body just, uh, but it was so good. And, um, RJ uh, Billy Riddle, who did such an amazing job.

Oh, he was fantastic. So he's so fantastic. He was like, no, it's okay. You can really punch me. I'm No, no, no, no. No, no, we're not gonna really throw you on the ground. So, um, that's pretty funny. 

JR: Okay, so like, fun back of the scenes moment for me. Of course, something happens in episode two. We won't say what, but it involved stitches and blood.

So all of the bathrooms on set are like plugged up with people and we've only got a few minutes to go. And I'm like, all right, I'm gonna go up, use the ladies room. So they said, well actually you can use the one that we shot the thing in. I was like, all right, fuck it. I'm like, so I go in, there's like doors, I'm shutting myself in, whatever.

And then I look on the counter and I'm like. What the fuck's on the counter, and there's this blood and on the counter with like, you know, like, and, and like the whole sewing kit. The whole sewing kit. And I'm like. Oh. And so I, of course walked over because I had to fuck with it. So I, I picked up the, the, and this goes to how far Passionflix goes to get things right.

I picked up the scissors and there's this like, stream of viscous red stuff and I was like, so anyway, anyway, things happen in episode two, but back to episode one. I wanna talk about wrath and the brothers meeting, but when Wrath show shows up in the backyard of Beth's, um. Apartment and I had such a clear vision of what that looked like in my head and, and the sliding glass door and the cat and the little apartment and this massive shape outside in the dark.

And, and I remember when I watched the scene happen, I was so struck by how close it was to exactly what I saw when I was typing that scene. That's so great. And he, and he comes forward and all of a sudden she's pinwheel backwards and she's breaking things. And then like, it isn't until the next morning, like she thinks it's a dream.

Mm-hmm. And then all of a sudden she realizes it isn't. And I, I, I was, that's one of those moments that just gives me shivers that like. You know, watching it happen on the screen. 

Tosca: Yeah. 

JR: After what I saw in my head. 

Tosca: I'm so glad that that's what you saw in your head because Yeah, we built Beth's apartment and the courtyard and where Wrath stands, um, a little further away, so it's exactly how I saw it in my head too.

Yeah. Yeah. So that's really good. Yeah. We had to build it because trying to find that Yeah, exactly. Is impossible. Yeah. That doesn't, I don't know of any apartments with sliding doors that have a porch chart. You're welcome. Have brick walls that are, that are have another apartment. Yeah. That they can stand there and stare in.

Yeah. It was a little hard to find that. But, 

JR: and then for him to like come in and then when he returns, um. And then he walks and see 

Tosca: And the red smoke. 

JR: Yeah. And the red smoke. Yeah. Because you and I went back and forth about that because like Yeah, it was really important to me, you know, and, and very important to you that there were consent issues that we didn't want, you know?

So, um, and I thought that you handled it very well. And the image on screen of, of Robert as wrath. You know, smoking. Mm-hmm. And just blowing it out. I, and I thought it was just such a beaut. It was beautiful. His, the way he looked in that shot I thought was really lovely. And then, um, it's actually in one of the trailers.

Um, I think it was the first trailer I. When she looks up and she goes, where are you gonna take me? 

Tosca: Mm-hmm. 

JR: And I'm like, oh, that was beautiful. Yeah. It was a beautiful moment. 

Tosca: Yeah. Well, it was so important to speaking about the consent rule because of course we wanted to make sure that, um, this red smoke mm-hmm.

Um. Because in the book you write that this doesn't enslave her. Yeah. This, but nobody actually says anything like that. Yeah. Right, right, right, right, right, right. And so I was like, well, it can't be that he drugged her. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right, right, right. So we have to say those words and we have to say it in such a way so that we know that this is not a drug that's.

You know, making her do this, 

JR: but, and at the same time not kill the vibe like, like the same time not kill, not kill the vibe and not like, complicated with a lot. This is red smoke and it will not, you know, like Exactly. And so that was one of the things that you taught me, um, not just in episode one, but in all the episodes is so there's a lot of things that you can do that I've learned from you about how you mark emotions with.

Music, 

Tosca: yes. 

JR: Lighting. Mm-hmm. Um, how you change your shots, the cadence of the shots, the number of times you choose one camera angle against another. It all informs the scene. Um, you can't do that in a book, obviously. Like you can't, like, like it's not, I can't add music to all of a sudden, like, whatever. So what was the other thing that was interesting for me is learning from you both the limitations of movie making, um, and, and, and then the things that movie making can do that writing can't.

Tosca: Yes. I mean, obviously we have, we have so many different elements to deal with, right? You know, we can't, we don't have. We have no way of describing something. Yeah. So we have to show, show, not tell. And we actually try and use less words. Yeah. Because more words you use. 

JR: That was the thing that you told me.

Tosca: Yeah, I remember you said, now listen, less words is better.

JR: I remember when you told me and you before you sent it, because you knew I was stupid. I was young and stupid and naive, and you had to educate me and you were like, listen, when you get the script, do not be surprised that there's not a lot of actual.

Dialogue. Yeah. And you said if you have any concerns about that, bear in mind actually go and listen to your favorite TV show or your favorite movie. Um, and then that made me think that like, you know, what is it, 80% of communication is nonverbal anyway. 

Tosca: Yeah. On that, on that red smoke scene. Um, one of the things we did in order to make sure that we got across that there was consent was we used Boo the Cat.

Yes. Yeah, yeah. Right, right, right. So the cat coming in, purring rubbing against Wrath's legs. Um, made us believe that there was no threat. Right. 'cause any animal that you own would, wouldn't needly. 

JR: And I did that. The fucking, I did that. Yeah. And it's so funny, I did that in book. 

Tosca: You did that book? 

JR: In the book You did.

Because I was like, because I, I said to myself like, what woman? Because I mean, you've lived alone. I've lived alone as young ladies, you know, whatever. Um. There's no way in hell I'm opening my fucking door. Right. To some guy, like, no way. Yeah. But if all of a sudden my animal, particularly cats who tend to be very suspicious ca can be very suspicious.

Dogs can too. I did the same thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Right, right, right, right, right. 

Tosca: So being able to use that, then you're like, oh, okay. Well there's no, the cat's not feeling a threat. I love that we filmed almost the entire thing with red light. 

JR: Yeah. 

Tosca: So that, yeah. Right, right, right. Smoke feel.

Right. We also met Mr. X. Mm-hmm. Um, in this one. Oh yeah. 

JR: Can we talk, can we talk about, about him for a minute? Dar Oh my God. Okay. Okay. So first of all, so good. The hair and makeup, the transformations between what the actors looked like when they tried out for the roles and what they looked like in costume.

Tosca: Yeah. 

JR: Um, Darrell was one of the ones, he's a very handsome gentleman. 

Tosca: Very handsome, 

JR: and, and, and, but, but one of the things that I think he does really well, particularly in episode. One is the creepiness factor. So good that, that he had an innate, creepy, icky, weirdo thing. And um, one of the things that I thought was great was that when the readership and the Passionista saw Darryl, they were like, wait, Mr. X is hot too. Yeah. Like it was, it was such a like, 

Tosca: well, and so that's why in this first episode, it was also really important for me to introduce cherry pie. Yes. Right, right, right. Cherry, yes. To introduce cherry pie. Yes. Also, because I'm thinking. Um, very much so into the future for Butch's character.

And, and so it was very important for us to show that at the very beginning. Yeah. 

JR: Um, one of the things that surprised me when I got the, the shooting list, like of scenes and stuff Yeah. Schedule. The fact that you're like, yes, it's called a schedule. Um, uh, how, how, when I saw episode one, it was all. It it, there was a cognitive dissonance for me that everything was shot out of sequence by ne necessity.

And so one of the things that I think was really amazing was that the actors. Managed to portray what was in those scenes, even though they were doing them, you know, first one and 50th one and second and four, you know, and I, I thought that that was so interesting. 'cause that was one of the things that I wondered before I saw the episode, um, where I was like, oh, I was like, it really did work.

Like they are actors. 

Tosca: Yeah. Um, well, it would be very funny because, um, Olivia, who plays Beth has to go through so many mm-hmm. Emotions. Yeah. Like, she's constantly going through so many emotions. Yeah. So she'd come to set, she'd like, oh, it's gonna be another good day. First time, happy, and feeling like something could be good and then I'm gonna nearly die.

Yeah. And then I go to, and then I'd laugh and then I. Cry, and then I cry more. And then I, then, then I am gonna be trying to be happy and then I'm gonna be sad and then someone's gonna try and attack me and, you know, take me to an alley. And so she would like, it was, it was. I mean, she did an amazing job.

And so it's, it's a lot of credit to, it's all the credit to the actors Yeah. To be able to pull it off. 'cause they constantly have to think about like, what just happened? What's gonna happen next? 

JR: But it was also really interesting for me to be on set and watch you direct, like, because that's one of the things that I've, I've never been able, I've never had that experience before.

And, and, and just how, 'cause you would rehearse the scene and then you would do it over and over and over again and capture. The different camera angles. And so I, I found that so interesting. I, I really, I found that such an interesting thing. And they repeated it as if they'd never done it before over and over and over again.

And then there was like, there was like certain takes were tinted this way and certain takes were. And so it was really interesting to watch the final product. 

Tosca: Yeah. 

JR: Um, again, not just episode one, but the whole thing. 

Tosca: Yeah. It was fun. Yeah. 

JR: Uh, okay. So I, I, okay. The, can we just, 

Tosca: you wrote it. 

JR: Okay. Yes. 

Tosca: I know what you're gonna say.

JR: I, yeah. 

Tosca: And you wrote it. 

JR: So one of the things that I, I, I didn't, I wasn't sure what was gonna happen, was the, um, the, the, in the intimate, intimate, intimate scenes mm-hmm. Um. And I, I am, I, I am reminded that there is content in the books that is kind of mm-hmm. Hot and heavy. Mm-hmm. And I, I'm just gonna be really honest here.

I, I really didn't know how that was gonna go. 

Tosca: Mm-hmm. 

JR: Because it's very explicit in the books. Mm-hmm. Right. And, and I knew that we were not going to make really, really explicit things. Mm-hmm. And I thought to myself. So much of this relationship hinges on the passion, like how was it? I'm gonna be honest.

Was it gonna be like fucking cheesy? What? Like, how is this gonna like work? Like, like was this gonna be like I I, I was fairly confident about like, obviously the action scenes. 'cause I knew the actors had come early and had done training for it and I was very confident about the sets. I wasn't worried about that.

You had, at that point we had picked out all of the clothes that they were wearing and. The contacts in their eyes and everything. And I remember that first episode because I, I have script approval, so I read the script, so I knew where we were headed. And the entire time when I screened it for the first time, I was like.

It's coming. It's coming. And I was amazed at, at how it, it really held up and it was beautiful.

Tosca: Thank you. 

JR: And it was hot and sexy and wonderful, but not gratuitous in any way. And I. I, I really, I, I was remember, I remember being anxious about that because I thought that, that, so much of it really hinges on that, that physical connection, because you can't, you can't divorce it from the content of the books.

You can't divorce it from two people being in love. Yeah. Mm-hmm. And at the end of the day. This first episode, as every episode is, and as every book is, it's about the main characters falling in love. 

Tosca: Yeah, absolutely. 

JR: So, I just wanna tell you, you did an excellent job. 

Tosca: Thank you. Thank you. It, I, um, was really impressed with Robert and Olivia.

Yeah. They, we filmed that scene the second to last day of shooting. Mm-hmm. After. Mm-hmm. 45 days of filming. And so those two actors knew each other very well and they were very comfortable with each other. Mm. And so when I said, this is how we're going to be doing it, they were like, okay. Mm-hmm. We got it.

Um, and they, uh, I mean the whole idea is to make it beautiful and a connection between two. Yeah. Right. 'cause that's what it is. It's not just, 

JR: it's the emotional landscape. Yeah. That's really happening. Yeah. More than anything physical. Yeah. Yeah. 

Tosca: Um, and that. That connection I think we really achieved in that very, I think it's a beautiful love making scene. Very sexy. 

JR: And, and the other thing is, is that like you can do lots of disparate scenes among d disparate characters, but will Robert and Olivia have that chemistry and that, and that's not something they can be the best actors in the world, but I think the human eye, maybe it's 5 million years of human evolution, you can suss it out.

Tosca: Mm-hmm. 

JR: And, and one of the things that I thought was so. Wonderful about that casting job is they found an accord that was all their own. And as you read it and you listen to the words that are spoken, uh, you, you apply that. Affinity and accord to the work that we did, but that really is about Robert and Olivia's two human beings.

Yeah, and I'm not talking about it in an innappropriate way. No, no. It's a prof. It's all a professional Yeah. Thing. But I thought that there was a mutual respect and mutual accord there and, and I think it really comes through and that gives that that crucial love story, the wings, it needs to really. Really soar

yeah. And I, I think it does. 

Tosca: Yeah. The two of them were, were so good. They were very honest with each other. They told each other from the very beginning, this is what I'm comfortable with, this is what I'm not comfortable with. Um, let me know if I cross a line. They were so open about it. Yeah. And then they just became friends.

Yeah. And so, and as soon as they, as soon as people are honest and Yeah. Right. They say, this is what I'm good with. This is what I'm not, and then I'll let you know if you do anything that I don't like. Yep. And as long as they remain honest and then make an effort to. Become friends, which they did. Right, right.

Um, then that chemistry just blooms. 

JR: And I think that, you know, even though this gets in much into, much further in the episode, I think when you look at the, the chemistry among all of the brothers, 'cause that was the other thing. Yes. I think as a group, even as they appear in that first group scene Yeah.

As they all appear the the boys. And I remember you saying to me that you were gonna bring them in mm-hmm. And, and, and have them in spending time with each other. Yeah. For seven to 10 days beforehand. Yeah. And that was brilliant. 

Tosca: Yeah. 

JR: I was like, y'all are gonna hang out. Yep. And you're gonna, and and they all do.

Tosca: And they do. And they still hang out. 

JR: Yeah. Which I love. Yeah, I love that. I love it so much. Yeah. So one of the things that was really interesting to me was how are you gonna reproduce the exact scenes in the book? And, and, and, and I, you were so kind and so inclusive about is this the kind of house, is this the house?

Is this the house? You know, speaking about Darius's house, I thought the house that was picked had that stately vibe, that very old money, very old. And one of the things that was extraordinary to me was that the outside shots were not the inside shots at all. 

Tosca: No. 

JR: And, and, and, and the day I came on set, we, it was stuff that was inside the house and I was amazed at how.

You fed the exterior shots in and then the interior is something altogether different. And, and, and I'm amazed at how I just went with it, even though I knew viscerally that like, okay, those are two different. Totally fucking different places. And I just was, I was fascinated by that part of it. 

Tosca: Yeah. It actually is so amazing in film.

Like often the inside of any location is not the same as the outside. It happens all the time. Um, but even, even myself, I have to remind myself, I'm like, that was not the same place. That was not the same place. Yeah. Yeah. Because it was, you know, you have to do it. We actually had to, so we had a, a door built for, um, Darius's home.

Yes. And we transported the door. To the different locations. Right. We always have this doors that we could match everything. So it was pretty funny. 

JR: And the other thing was just the, the picture of the, the king. Oh, yes. Yeah. That, that, that opens and closes. Yeah. And like of course I'm pulling this shit outta my ass 20 years ago, never knowing that I was gonna stick you Yeah.

With, okay, now we gotta do this. And so how you manage to make it so it swings open. Yeah. 

Tosca: And also finding a house that has that sort of Yeah. Um, that stone staircase. Yes. That goes down into a creepy Yes. Underground. Two beautiful bedrooms. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. That was very hard. That was particularly hard.

That was, that was, that was basically probably the hardest thing to find. Yeah. Yeah. Because, you know, when you walk into people's homes and, um, and they have a, an underground sort of lair um, it's concerning. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. Um, and so that was hard to find. 

JR: Yeah. Um, the other thing that was great, um, was the Screamers shot.

Yes. Because I was wondering it was so much better. And then that woman who's got this like, I don't know, buzz saw or some shit I know with sparks going off, but 

Tosca: she was awesome. Oh my God was, I loved her. I loved her. It was really fun. So that one, we actually built it on our stage, our sound stage has a loading dock.

We were looking at different places for Screamers, and I was like, yeah, but every nightclub that you go to is kind of like a little. Fancy. Yeah. Yeah. And a little like clean and, and this is Screamers, man. It was great. It's gotta be rude. Oh, it was great. It was so great. I was like, I kind of feel like we could take our loading dock.

Yeah, yeah. We can turn it into a really cool bar. And the art department did it. So we painted everything this like slate gray and, um, everything. But if you look at it, it's actually a loading dock. You'll see the rolling board there, and then we built the stage and the stairs and all that sort of stuff around it.

JR: I love it. I thought it was great. It was just the right vibe. Yeah. But, but as you said, like. And as you say, like it's, it's, or even if you think of the shots of Beth running down the street Yeah. After like, you know when Billy Riddle Yeah. Like comes after her, whatever, and then, and then. You know, when she runs away, um, establishing that place, that field, the darkness.

And one of the things that I remember is when you first started shooting, um, you, you poor sons of bitches, you guys were out in the cold. So night was cold and oh my god. And I just, the idea that poor Olivia was out there. And I would get these texts. And I would get these texts. 'cause I'd wake up at three in the morning, you know, I'd go to bed like a toddler, you know, really early.

And I'd get all these and you'd still be on set and I'd be answering your questions. Yeah, like we, we had, I, 

Tosca: it was actually really funny 'cause I'd be like, I was like, well, I don't have an answer for that yet, but, uh, Jr's gonna be waking up in the next 3:00 AM, you know, hours or so. And I'll be able to get all the answers like at like three o'clock in the morning, four o'clock in the morning.

I was like, yep, all the answers, we'll talk. 

JR: No, and I will check and I'll be like, all right, we're, we're in, we're in, you know. Um. But yeah, that was, and that was the other thing that, um, the, the contact lenses 

Tosca: Yeah. 

JR: For the guys. Mm-hmm. The colors, they are like, like your attention to detail was, was almost like, I had no idea how you could do your job.

Like there are literally a hundred thousand tiny minute decisions that you made. 

Tosca: Yeah. 

JR: And that you looped me in on. Yeah. You know, and we were just bouncing back and forth, bouncing back and forth. Yeah. 

Tosca: Those contact lenses. Man, that was hard. Oh, I blame myself. And you know, one of the things I, you know, also to the credit of our, of our wonderful actors, SIA, his lenses came in and they were just slightly not right.

But I was like, no, I think that they're fine. I think that they look good. They look good. And Sia was like. I don't think this is his eyes. Uh, and, and uh, and I was like, no, I, I think it's, I mean, it could be. I mean, and then, um, after a while he's like, they're really not, they're not his eyes. And I was like, you're right.

They're not his eyes. Yeah. We're gonna get, we're gonna get them. We're gonna, and but those contact lenses are individually painted. Yeah. And they take two weeks to do it. So I was like, I had to contact the, um, lens guy and, and you know, to his credit, I was like, Hey. I said, it has to be like this, this Huskies eye that we agreed on and all that sort of stuff.

And he, he, they just had to keep redoing the eye and I was like, and I need it. I need it in like three days. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So they were great and they ended up doing it. Um, I wonder that, I'm really glad that. Sia, um, pushed to have it done right. Um, he was so dedicated to making sure that he portrayed vicious so perfectly.

Um, and so, you know, that, that's great because in, in a situation like that, I, I have so many things to do with and I'm like, oh my God, I'm sure, I'm sure the eyes eye can fix them in visual effects. I'm gonna be fine. We have like a million other things to deal with. Yeah. And I just need to make sure that I can film you.

'cause if you don't have contact lenses, I can't film you. And so, um. Uh, but I'm glad that he pushed for it and, uh, and then even the, the tattoo Yeah. 

JR: Yeah. On his face. Um, everything. Oh my God. I can remember you said, how does this and this and this and Yeah. 

Tosca: So it was like we were trying to figure it out and trying to get this, you know, we, we came up with, um, we, we knew what the, what it was saying, and we have the alphabet from you.

Mm-hmm. And so we were writing it, writing these words down, and we are like, how do we make it feel like, um, it was. Done, you know, the way that it was done. Mm-hmm. As we all know how it was done in the, in the. Future. We'll find out it, every time we were doing it, it just became, it was too pretty. Yeah. It was always so clean and neat and so pretty.

And she was like, that's what look like. How's, that's what it looks like. And there was actually our, um, makeup artist who just sat next to me and I was like, these are the letters. And she just sat next to me and she kind of just scribbled it down in this sort of like triangle. 'cause I said, it has to be like this so that it can go here on his eyes.

She just kind of scribbled it down and I said. Yeah, it looks perfect and gave it to them. So it was Indigo, our makeup artist that was just scribbling it for me. Oh, that's wonderful. Me. And I was like, yep, perfect. And so that's how we did it. And then we like put it on his, on his face and he's like, yes, it looks great.

And so anyway, I guess on that, I'm just saying how incredible it was to work with these actors. While there are so many millions of tiny little pieces, the fact that I had such a wonderful support team of actors who were. Very determined to make sure that they portrayed these characters exactly as the book.

Yeah. Um, describes them was, was really helpful. So. Well, thank you so much for joining me on our thank of episode one. Yay. Um, don't forget to, uh, tune into episode two next week. Yes. And, uh, what can we tell you about what's gonna happen in episode two? I'm gonna give you a little hint. Mm. Wrath and Marissa?

Yes. Oh, she's fabulous. She's so fabulous. Oh, I adore her. So good. What else, Mr. X? Cherry pie. Uh, just things to look forward to. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. So thank you so much for, thanks for having me. Thanks for being here. 

JR: And listen, I'm so excited for people to, I hope that you enjoyed it as much as we enjoyed it. We had a great time making this shit, and we did, and it was wonderful.

It's a great experience. 

Tosca: Tune in for episode two next week.