PassionPod
PassionPod is the official Passionflix podcast where members of the Passionflix team, including Tosca Musk, Ali Whitaker, Lauren Olsen, and special guest hosts, dive into behind-the-scenes conversations about your favorite Passionflix projects. Tune in for interviews with authors, actors, and the creators bringing romance to life on screen.
PassionPod
Brotherhood Breakdown: Episode 4
⚠️ Spoiler Alert!
In this episode, Tosca, Lauren & Ali break down Episode Four of The Black Dagger Brotherhood. If you haven’t watched the episode yet, press pause and watch it first. We’re diving into major plot points, character moments and behind-the-scenes insights that could spoil the experience.
Come back after you’ve watched for all the juicy details, laughs and fan-favorite moments!
If you're enjoying this series, please share it with your friends!
Do you have a question or comment you would like featured on a future episode? Leave us a message today!
Leave us a voicemail today at (770) 648-3677 or email at info@passionflix.com.
Lauren: Welcome to Brotherhood Breakdown, a PassionPod special. Uh, today we're discussing episode four of the Black Dagger Brotherhood. Uh, so if you have not watched it, if you have not seen that episode yet, do not listen to this podcast. There are spoilers. You have been warned if you continue on from this point and get spoiled, that is on you.
Um, but if you have watched the episode, get ready to enjoy us chatting about it. Mm-hmm. Uh, I'm Lauren, the director of development.
Ali: I am Ali. I'm the Head of Marketing and Publicity,
Tosca: and I'm Tosca. I'm the director of the Black Dagger Brotherhood and also the founder and CEO of Passionflix.
Lauren: Very nice. Uh, so what's one word you'd use to describe this episode?
Tosca: Action.
Lauren: Action. I know like, oh,
Ali: what about you?
Lauren: Mine? Mine is kind of excitement. Yeah, I'll use that. Okay. Just 'cause like some of my favorite moments happen in this episode. Yeah. Exciting for me. Yeah. Yeah, we can start by talking about the op opening scene with Havers. He's clearly showing that he's going through some things.
Mm-hmm. Going through some emotions and he's definitely showing in what I would see as hatred towards the brotherhood or or Wrath specifically. What do you think this is rooted in?
Tosca: Well, so there are a couple of things we wanna try and get across that he's in his lab. Mm-hmm. He's been infusing himself with this mixture of blood that he's created and it's, um, making him feel sickly and actually quite, um.
Angry and a lot of times it's kind of like, for lack of a better word, he's kind of hangry in a way.
Lauren: That's a great way of putting it.
Tosca: So he's, he's, his body is starving 'cause he's not feeding himself. Um, and so sort of getting across that not feeding is starving and he's. Now internalizing this anger and, and hatred, um, towards the, the Black Dagger Brotherhood.
Mm-hmm.
Lauren: And then Wrath and Beth share a tender moment, um, when they're next scene in this episode. Yeah. Uh, but it also, it, and, and he's getting ready, um, to go fight for the evening, but she, we kind of end that moment on her asking how long she'll live.
Tosca: I know.
Lauren: Yeah. Which I was like, oh, I know.
Tosca: And then he's just like, I know. I have no idea. And he grabs her and holds her well. So, and it's like,
Lauren: yeah. Yeah. What do you think people can take away from that reaction?
Tosca: Well, that he doesn't know if she's gonna survive the transition.
Lauren: Oh, it's brutal.
Ali: Will she, will she?
Tosca: We don't know. Don't know.
Lauren: Oh my goodness.
Tosca: Um, but, but you know what I, I loved about that.
That moment as well. You know, it starts, they're all intimate and loving and you know, snugly in bed and he's like, will you stay? Mm-hmm. Yeah. And she's like, I don't think I can walk. I know. I was like, oh, well that was a fun night. And then he gets out of bed and he gets changed and just leaves her there.
And she's like, and she's like, oh. Uh, hang on a second. I said I, I dunno. I was like, trying to say that once again. It's like, so confusing. Yeah. It's like I'll stay. It was so nice. And then he is like, okay, cia, I'm out. Yeah.
Lauren: I think Olivia did a great job portraying that too. Like just watching her face as she, he gets outta bed and she's just like.
Tosca: Where are you going? Exactly.
Lauren: What's up man?
Tosca: Um, and then, um, and then I thought it was really, so yeah, of course that tender moment of, you know, we find out how long he mm-hmm. Uh, has been blind, right? We find out how, how long he's been around. Mm-hmm. You know, how, how old he is, 300 years. Um, and then, um, and then she, then he is like, so you'll stay.
And she's like, I don't know, maybe I won't stay. I know because you just left me. And he's like, okay, I'm gonna drop this bomb. Your dad's bedroom's, like right next door. He's like, he's like, if you feel like explore, if you feel like exploring. Mm-hmm. Just so you know, you can learn more about your past if you stay.
Lauren: Mm-hmm. Just a little. Just a little in incentive. Exactly. Exactly. I also appreciate it, and I feel like other people might appreciate this, that we got to see him suiting up. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Which included him being topless. Um, like meaning, including seeing his arms and stuff? Like, like, like I the brother.
Ali: Why'd you appreciate that? What do you mean?
Lauren: No, there's, there's no reason I appreciated that at all.
Ali: Um, because he's so tiny.
Lauren: There's no reason at all. No, I was bringing that up. 'cause that was, that was one of the wildest early character reactions Yeah. That we got when we released their first photos and they're fully suited up, like full on leather.
Yeah. The leather jackets and everything. People were a little concerned. They were like, oh my gosh. They don't look, they don't look huge. Yeah. And then the boys immediately went to the gym and started posting their gym selfies and being like.
Tosca: Yeah, they are so large.
Lauren: Oh, like I both hands couldn't fit about Robert's arms.
Like they're, I don't know how he got them that bit. It's crazy. He's very, very large. They're very dedicated to their, to their physique and their build and, and just being fit in general. Like they, they, I appreciated the dedication that the actors had
Tosca: and we all appreciated. Thank you, Robert.
Lauren: Thank you, Robert. Thank you everybody else. Because we also see Rhage later. It's fine. It's
Tosca: a, it's a kindness and a service. Yeah.
Lauren: It is a kindness and a service. Um, but I feel like. We can cheekily mention that on these episodes because fans are excited to see it too.
Tosca: Yeah. And I like, you know, yes, it's and definitely so great.
He, he has a perfect body, like, literally like there's nothing like it, but, um, it's wild. But him suiting up was very cool. Yes. 'cause we get to see that he has this, sorry, he has this closet full of mm-hmm. Weapons Yeah. And things. And so that was really important to show that, you know, it's part of his agree.
Lauren: Yeah.
Tosca: His fighting world.
Lauren: Yeah. You know. So Butch and Jose discussed another crime scene, but we see that Butch is off the force as well, but he's still very concerned about Beth and this Wrath character that he, you know, is concerned that she's involved with. Mm-hmm. Do you think that his growing involvement in going after this, after wrath is kind of bringing him further away from the law and potentially being a cop, or where do we see him going?
Tosca: You know what, it definitely, it's definitely bringing him closer to the vampire world, but he doesn't know that he thinks that Beth's getting involved with a drug dealer. And I think at the end of the day, this feeds back to episode three, where, um, Jose said, this isn't gonna bring your sister back.
Lauren: Hmm.
Tosca: I think he, he, you know, we'll learn later more about what happened with his sister, but he.
You know, sees Beth, you know, as a sisterly figure, like a a somebody that's really important to him and he needs to save her. Yeah. He's gonna stray further away from the law in order to try and do what he can to save Beth
Lauren: So, let's talk about the dragon in the room. Um, can you, uh, can you talk a little bit about the process of bringing Rhage's beast to life? Because we do get to see that in this episode.
Tosca: Yeah, you know, it, it was really cool. We used so many different, um, techniques to try and create this beast. And, um, you know, and, and again, I'm just going to note that the base Beast is described as a lime green and purple. Dragon with a mane. Mm-hmm. Um, a black mane.
Mm-hmm. Um, and so that's hard to create in a real world because nothing, no creature is really lime green and purple and looks very real. I mean, you look at like lime green and, and, and purple frogs or lizards mm-hmm. They, they almost, they don't look real, they don't look like they're, they're placed in the real world.
And so we had to try and sort of almost mute the colors a little bit, um, to. To make him feel like he fit into this, this forest. But we learned a lot and it was really fun and to explore the world of, of this beast dragon making and certainly learned a lot for season two. Um, and so that's gonna be exciting.
Ali: Did you speak a lot with JR when it came to. Creating the dragon, how did that mean?
Tosca: I spoke a lot to JR about creating everything, um, definitely about the, the beast dragon, you know? Mm-hmm. I mean, that's what it is. And then, and yes, and there are images and sizes and you know, she, when when you first create, um, the scene, you have to do sort of, it's kind of funny.
It's like this claymation version of the Beast.
Lauren: Oh, cool.
Tosca: And so it's, it looks like, it looks like putty or clay, and it's the shape of it, and it's. You know, the actions that it's doing. And, and so that's the first thing that she got to see when she saw the episode. And then, and then it's discussing colors and how about this look and how about this, this face?
And, and so yeah, so I would send the face and she goes, oh, so at one point we sent, we sent a picture of the dragon's face and she goes, well, I pictured a little bit broader. And I was like, okay, it's so broader. It is. And then she's like, and I pictured a T rexy. And I was like, okay, but just understand if it's T-Rex, then his claws are gonna be like his.
Front legs are gonna be like this, right? Because this is a T-Rex. And she's like, oh, no, no, no, that's not what it's, I was like, okay, so it's not this, this type of thing. But the teeth are kind of T-Rex. The face is almost, it's almost dinosaur dragon esque. And the wings and, and the size of it. 'cause it has to be large, but not too large and.
Uh, you know, and so yeah, we went through all of it together. I think we did a great job. I mean, this is season one. We are learning a lot. I think season two, we will be able to iterate on this dragon and really bring out so many of the very specific elements, uh, bring them, you know, bring them to life. But one of the things I thought, you know, that I really loved about this was, um, when we actually filmed this, I always pictured.
That we would only see the dragon through wraths glasses. Oh yeah. That was cool. Um, and so I never actually pictured us seeing the dragon. In the woods itself. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Um, and then, you know, when we got to it, I was like, oh, it's kind of fun. You know, it's, it's, uh, it's, it's fun to see it briefly. Um, but I like the idea of seeing, uh, of us seeing it through wraths eyes, I guess kind of blind.
But, um, and so we used that as an element to portray how he eats the lessers. Mm. I don't know. It was kind of fun. I mean, at the end of the day, it's kind of fun to create dragons and beasts and, uh. And so it's my first time doing that sort of thing. And
Ali: we did that earlier on in the shoot too. And I, and Right.
I liked the whole scene. I mean, it was fun. 'cause we, we had the lessers flying up. We had them tied to the lines. Oh yes. Yeah. That was cool.
Tosca: Well that was the stunt scene. Yeah. Yeah. That, that fight scene was so cool to do. Uh, and it was almost exactly how I pictured it in my head because I wanted it to be over Wrath's shoulders.
Fight watching the fight scene and seeing Rhage fight in the background.
Lauren: Right.
Tosca: Um, and Alex did that fight by himself. Again, it's one of those situations where we had, we had the, the, um, stunt doubles there, ready to do the scene with him, but he practiced. Yeah. And he did it, and it was amazing. Um, but yeah, we had rigging and the lessers were flying and so that was very cool.
Yeah. I love that the, the dragon breathes into mm-hmm. Wrath's face. Mm-hmm. I know. It's so cool. So this is another moment that I wanted to have, I wanted to have this. This eye to eye look, uh, these, the dragon and, and wrath approaching the dragon. How can I create that and make it feel like it's in the real world?
And that is through the, the breath of the dragon.
Lauren: Yes. Mm-hmm. And it blew his hair so perfectly.
Tosca: I know. And so that was, that was a fun thing to create because obviously. There was not a real dragon there. Yeah. And we had to create that, that burst.
Lauren: But, so, um, something else about the, the dragon, well the beast moment is that this is also the first moment we see his tattoo.
Correct. In the show. Yeah.
Tosca: The first moment on the top of his tattoo. Yeah.
Lauren: Well, 'cause I know that took a lot of prep as well. Getting the tattoo perfect. Yeah. And getting it applied Right. And all that stuff because that's, and you went
Tosca: through that tattoo and the look of that too, that tattoo. A million times.
Yeah. With JR. I bet. And again, purple and green. Mm-hmm. It's purple and green dragon. Yeah.
Lauren: But i, I do like the effect that you did where, um. It's, you don't see the, the tattoo moving, but then when he starts to transform, you do see it starts moving.
Tosca: And I think that the cool thing about this tattoo and this curse that rage has and that we'll be able to explore in season two is that this dragon, this beast can move around on his back.
Mm-hmm. It doesn't always have to be that shape and, and stuck like that to me, I always picture it as it's a living. Creature.
Lauren: Yeah.
Tosca: And so I just, I look forward to us sort of being able to explore a little bit more with the movement of that beast on his back.
Ali: One of the scenes that I love is After Rhage becomes the Beast and he comes back Oh.
And we get to see him with Rath and Beth. Yeah. And, um. I, I love the stills from that. We were talking about all the pictures I had from that day. I'm like, this looks like a very different romance movie. I'll have to, I'll have to share those pictures. Yeah. But I really love that scene. And you get to see Beth.
In that mode of just hopping into Yeah. To help take care of him. Yeah, very. It was really beautifully done.
Tosca: Very motherly and yes, and, and not, not concerned at all, but you know, exactly. Jumping in there and wanting to help and noticing that, you know, Rhage needs a little bit of caring.
Lauren: Well, and that was a big moment for wrath too, of just like, thank you for taking care of my brother.
Yeah. Like that was like, wow, this is a truly a female of worth. Yeah. Like she already was. But that's even more so like, yeah. Oh, that just hit him and I was, and I could see it hitting him and I was like, ah.
Tosca: Yeah, the babies.
But, but going back, so this is when we're in Darius's room, so, you know, right, yeah.
Wrath's left and he's, he's, uh, you know, telling just before the, the, the fight scene with the lessers, he's telling, he's admitting to rage, um, about how he needs to apologize to Tohrment. Oh yeah. I mean, this is something that has never done right, where
Lauren: you're just like. What? He's like, what? Why'd you, what'd you bring up? Exactly, exactly. He's like, well, he's like, well,
Tosca: yeah. Um, but you know, just before that we see Beth going into her father's room. Yeah. Going into Darius's room. This is the first time that we finally see. You know, how Darius lived and this beautiful room mm-hmm. That the, the art department created, but very much so from the book.
Yeah. And all the, the, all of the framed, uh, articles and pictures of Beth on the wall. Um, and then she turns and she sees picture of her mother. Mm-hmm. Or who, you know, she recognizes as her mother. Right. Um, and just how she. You know, it's, it's, you know, it's sort of, it's lending towards that found family trope again.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So it's like she's realizing more and more that there was this father that cared for her, that watched over her, that she had a mother, that she had, um, people that loved her.
Lauren: Right.
Tosca: And so that was really beautiful to me, and I was like, oh. And she, and again, I thought Olivia played it so well, um, because she had never seen what her mother looked like, so, no.
Yeah. That was, and she had no idea. That was a huge moment. Yeah. Yeah. That her father. Um, still pine for her and all that. Yeah. And then waking up with Zsadist in the room.
Ali: Oh, yes, I know.
Tosca: Oh my God.
Ali: He played that. That was such a, so creepy.
Lauren: So creepy. So creepy. And I know he has to that ze character. Yes. But it was so different seeing it versus reading it.
I was like, oh my gosh. Gosh.
Tosca: Well look what we have here.
Lauren: Yeah. Well I, and I thought about it, rewatching it this last time, was that, oh my gosh, like she's immediately crying because she had gone through what she went through with Billy in the very first episode. And I wonder if any of that comes up with just like a strange man suddenly being there.
Ali: I'm sure. Yeah.
Lauren: I was like, how does it not? Yeah, but she played that really well and he played it so well.
Ali: He disappeared in that role. Oh my God. Or, I mean, Andrew disappeared. Yeah. He's no longer,
Tosca: oh, he was so good. He was so fabulous. And then Wrath coming in and telling him to let it go, and he's like, uh, you only like it if you pay for it.
And he's like, I'll toss her. Tells her
Ali: 20. I was, I'm like, oh.
Tosca: So assuming she survives the sex. The sex, yeah. And also if we know about Zsadist, we know. You know? Yeah. This is just a, a kind of what kind of threat this is. Yeah. But, um, uh. But then I, I, I love how Andrew softened. Mm-hmm. Zsadist as soon as he finds out it's Darius's daughter.
Yes.
Lauren: Oh my gosh.
Tosca: And then he walks outta the room, and just as he's exiting the room, he says her name so softly. Mm-hmm. And I was like, break, heart break. He's like, oh my God. Nice to meet you, Beth. Yeah. Yeah. I know. I know, but then, uh, but then, you know, wrath tells us he's nearly soulless. Yeah. And my favorite is that, um, is when he goes, yeah.
Uh, you know, nobody can get through to him except maybe his twin. And she's like, what? There are two of them. Yep.
Lauren: But I, and I, but I also love from that moment and how he softens, we, it does show us that Darius really was kind of the glue, yeah. Mm-hmm. For the brotherhood. Mm-hmm. And now they have to create new glue.
Yeah. And um, yeah, like I know we only saw him in the one episode and, and just for the one scene really, but, uh, Piotr who plays. Yeah. Darius just did such a good job making us freaking care about him. He is. Yeah.
Tosca: Yeah. So amazing.
Ali: Well, we should talk about some of the other fan favorite moments. Butch and Marissa. Oh my God. Which is one of my favorite scenes.
Tosca: Same. Uh, you know, and so this is again, um. Well, firstly, Beth goes through her trans, you know? Yes. She nearly dies. Yep. Butch comes to her place and he's like, we, we gotta, we thinks he's, she's going through a drug overdose. And she's like, no, I've gotta go to Wrath.
And he's like, oh, I know.
Lauren: I was so scared for a moment like that. She, even though I knew it was gonna happen, I was still scared in that moment that he wasn't gonna take her, that he was just gonna take her to a human hospital and her mom, and she would die like her mom. I was like, oh.
Tosca: So then of course he shows up at Darius's house with her and he is like, ah, you know, ready to. Beat the hell out of wrath, who's significantly larger than him. And then, um, and he comes inside and he meets all of the brothers. Yep.
Lauren: That's my other favorite one.
Tosca: And all that leather. Mm-hmm. And um, and then of course, um, Rhage, you know, punches him and he actually punched him in real life, which was like, oh my God, that's funny.
And Michael's like, you get one man. It was so, I was like, uh oh. No. We practice this, you're not supposed to actually punch him in the face. Mm-hmm. Um, and, um, but then they throw him into that room. Yes. And so this is like, this is us getting to Marissa. And so, um, they throw him into the room and he's like, oh God, I gotta get outta here.
And then Marissa just appears. Mm-hmm. Yes. And he's like, no, don't go out there. And he sees her and she sees him and their immediate connection. Mm-hmm. Is so perfect.
Lauren: Yeah.
Tosca: Um, and, and all of that tension and stress and everything that's going on just mm-hmm. Settles down. Mm-hmm. And he's like, wow. You're so beautiful.
Yeah. And you can't be real.
Lauren: Um, and I know we're worried about Beth and if she's gonna be all right. Yeah. But the, like, it's, it's amazing that instantly in that moment I was like, oh no, I'm now, I'm invested in this.
Tosca: Yeah.
Lauren: Yeah.
Tosca: And it's like this, this subtle thing, you know, Marissa's come over there to give wrath a piece of her mind.
Yes. And um, and instead she is now suddenly looking right at Butch. And I, again, I've mentioned this before, but. Marissa does not look people in the eye when she talks to them. Right. She doesn't speak to them. She doesn't confront them. She just, her back's towards them, except when it comes to Butch and her gaze is just locked on him.
Lauren: Mm-hmm.
Tosca: And his on her. Mm-hmm. And they just can't take their eyes off each other. Yeah. And it's really. Beautiful.
Ali: Yeah, I thought it was adorable. He's so goofy in it too.
Lauren: So goofy. He's such a, he in instantly caught butch, like, like he becomes kind of a dork and I love it. I love just the layers, the butch shows there.
Tosca: Oh my God, God, you should wait. Episode five is even more secret. Dork. I can't wait. Butch Marissa can't wait for that.
Lauren: It's so adorable. It's so adorable. But I, I was so excited for that scene because I, when reading the book, I really felt for Marissa as a character. 'cause she. She has never felt desired.
Tosca: No.
Lauren: Mm-hmm. She's never felt wanted by somebody. And she's, the fact that she's been dealing with it for hundreds of years, I know like, uh, like just him keeping eye contact must've been so jarring, but also amazing for her in that moment. And they portrayed it so well.
Tosca: Yeah, I think, um. Is it this episode? Can I touch your hair?
So he's like, you cannot be real. She's like, but I am. Yeah. And he's like, uh, prove it. And she's like, how? And he goes, can I touch your hair? And I was like, I was like, in the book, I was like, can I touch your hair? I was like, can I touch your hair? And I was like, you know what's so delicate about this? Is that Butch? You know, if you know the character Butch from the books, like he's. You know, having sex with the bartender, he's Oh, right. He's a little bit more, um, rough around the edges. And here he is seeing this delicate, beautiful person and he doesn't like immediately go, I'm gonna touch your arm. I'm, but he's like, touch your hair.
And he asked permission. Yeah, yeah. Can I, he has permission and it's like, just wanna see that you're real.
Lauren: Mm-hmm. And when she was like, I can't breathe, I was like, she's feeling it too.
Tosca: So when Butch, um, when the brothers come in, of course, and Butch has thrown on the floor and he's all like, what the hell?
Yeah. I'm like, in this world of leather gang, drug dealers, you know, whatever. It's where all the weather to turn out. And then, and then we have Fritz come in and offer them little spinach crepes.
Lauren: Well, then he says, if you're gonna bloody the human, can you do it outside or in the backyard or something? And I was like, oh my God, Fritz, I know.
Tosca: And there's Butch going, I, I don't understand what's going on. Mm-hmm. Like, there are all these gang members. I was beaten up. Now they're eating crepes off a silver platter. I was told, if you're gonna bloody the human mm-hmm. Like all these things that are going through his mind, it was, I thought that was really great.
I thought it was a funny moment. It is a really funny moment. Of course. And then, you know, just before they, when they throw him in the, in the room before he meets Marissa. And you have Zsadist there again. Oh yeah. Mm-hmm. I hope you run. I hope you run.
Lauren: It's so good. That's so good. Because he does 'cause he'll, he'll, he'll get it.
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Ali: Mr. X shows how he ends the torture session. Can you talk about the process of filming those flames?
Tosca: Oh yeah. Yeah. So, um, so the one thing that I wanted to sort of create, firstly, we wanted to establish a barn mm-hmm. For a very good reason. But, um, and I wanted to see this sort of bucolic.
Scenery and like, oh, it's so peaceful and so lovely. And then what's actually happening inside is somebody's being tortured. Yeah. Um, I dunno, boy, like romance. Yeah. Romance novels. Romance movies. That's what I make. So, um, what, what we'd seen before is Mr. X capturing a vampire. Mm-hmm. Yes. How he did it, this was during the dinner scene mm-hmm.
Where we'd seen Mr. X, um. How he, uh, you know, sort of snares, civilian vampires. We'd seen it in episode two as well. And then, um, and so he captures this vampire, takes him torturing and, and so we get this, this the sense of what he likes to do to the vampires here. And then it's daytime goes, opens the, the doors.
And then of course we. We learn what happens to vampires. Mm-hmm. When they're in the sun. Yeah. They burn up. They burn up. Mm-hmm. Um, so that was uh, you know, obviously difficult 'cause we can't burn. People imagine that when we film. Dang. So weird. So weird. Um, but I always pictured this moment where, you know, we go along the, the va, the, the tortured vampire, and we go to his feet, we see Mr. X open the door, and then we see the feet.
Lauren: Mm-hmm.
Tosca: Uh, you know, burst into flames. So we actually, I dunno if you, if you want me to tell you how we did that.
Ali: Yeah, I think you should.
Tosca: Oh, okay. So what special effects did is they, they had that, that table, this, this metal table, and they cut holes where the, where the knees of the performer would go.
And so the knees of the performer went, the real legs of the performer go down that, no. Into those holes. And then we have fake legs with shoes, prosthetic legs with shoes that like, like extend Nice. And so, and those, they have, um. Little explosives attached to, and then they, and then they, they explode it in real time.
Um, and then we added some visual effects to enhance it a little bit more, but yeah.
Lauren: Cool.
Tosca: That's how stuff. Very cool.
Lauren: That's really cool. Yeah. Because we also see, in this episode, we see Mr. X grooming, Billy Riddle. Mm-hmm. Bit more. Mm-hmm. They have that cafe scene where they're talking about, oh yeah.
Billy's history with. Brutality and his dad. And, um, we see him drop him off at his dad's house later and kind of inviting him to have a job at the mm-hmm. At the Martial Arts Academy.
Tosca: Yeah. He's like, oh, why don't you come work for me? Oh, at the Martial Arts Academy. Sort of, yeah. Yeah. I mean, he did that so well.
But yeah, this is, this is, again, it's another, um, it's an introduction to learning how lessers are mm-hmm. Recruited. Mm-hmm. And this is how you do it. Yeah. You sort of, you find somebody who has this soulless quality in them. Yeah. This darkness in them. And then you, then you. Basically, you know, bring them over to the dark side.
Yeah. Um, but I, what I, uh, like, just going back to that, you know, we have Mr. X and he's addressing the lessers again. Oh yeah. And I think somebody did actually mention it in one of the tiktoks I noticed that they're like, there's one person that doesn't have white hair. Mm-hmm. And that is Mr. O. Yes. This is where we learn catch.
Mm-hmm. Um, so it's Mr. O and it's how Mr. X goes up to him. And, and you can see in this, like, he dismisses all the Lessers because Mr. O. Shows his brutality. Yeah. So, and I know we're talking about Billy, but just getting into that scene, you see all these lessers and then, um, Mr. O is talking about how Yeah, we've, I found one, Mr. X, uh, Mr. O found two, and, and, um, and then Mr. O's disregards the mm-hmm. Um, the hierarchy in a way. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Um, uh, for the lessers. And he just goes in there and splits Mr. M's. Throat. Throat. I know. And again. I think in this scene we, Mr. X dismisses everyone. Mm-hmm. And we can see then what Mr. X is. Power is when it comes.
Yeah. That was as a Forelesser. Mm-hmm. So when he has all the rights and powers of a Forelesser, as he mentions in episode one that he was given by the omega, one of them is the ability to physically control mm-hmm. Um, lessers. Yeah. And, and basically freeze them, paralyze them where they are. And so he does that to Mr. O. And then goes in ands, like there's nothing Mr. O can do. He puts his thumb in his mouth, makes him just feel,
Ali: man, you creeped me out with that.
Lauren: You did in the book. I know, but I, when he makes him say 'Yes, Sensai'. I appreciate that, like the, the, the martial arts as a front really goes deep for mm-hmm. Many of the members who've come in.
Tosca: Yeah. Yeah. I think the, you know, with the idea of these lessers and, and as we get more and more into the books, is they, they have to like, live in pretty mundane Yeah. Mm-hmm. Circumstances. Mm-hmm. They have to have the generic apartment, the generic home. They have to have a, a, like in this situation that he has a martial arts academy, I do think it's a great way to find new recruits.
To find mm-hmm. So that he can see who, who, you know. Can, um, tap into that brutality mm-hmm. As he does with Billy. Um, and also how, how he, how Mr. X treats people that lose. Yeah. Mm-hmm. He really shames them. Yeah. Um, and so it's like how do people react to that shame? And, and we can see the delight that Billy gets.
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Um, you know, from that as well. And so, and Mr. X notices it. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Um. Uh, and then at the same time, it's also, um, as we learn, it's a location for where the lessers can meet. Right. So it's within plain sight. Mm-hmm. Yeah. But it's hidden. Yeah. Yeah.
Lauren: No, I love it. Speaking of real quick, a big kind of emotional kind of gut punch moment.
We also see wrath. Talk about his parents. Oh, in this episode, Beth asked him, who did, who did you lose to the lessers? Like who did the lessors take from you? Yeah, it his parents. I like that. The creative choice you made to actually show his, like the flashback to his family. Not just him just talking about it, but you actually see what he's describing.
And I thought that was really cool.
Tosca: Yeah. Thank you. Um, I pictured it in my mind when he was describing it 'cause he was just telling Beth the story and so when he was telling Beth the story, I just pictured it. I saw. Wrath with this happy family.
Lauren: Mm-hmm.
Tosca: I saw him happy as a pre-transition vampire with a vampire king and, and, um, and then.
Um, being stuffed in the closet and seeing everything, and basically his entire last memory of his family is through this keyhole.
Lauren: Yeah. Oh God.
Tosca: Not that's, he, he never sees them again. Mm-hmm. They, the, the, the drapes are drawn open and they, they, they burn, they burn. There's nothing left. Um, and so that I can only, um, like that must. Have, I mean, he's carried it with him for 300 years. For 300 years. And then he says how he stopped screaming. Yeah. And there's nothing that he could do. And it's described in the book that, you know, he's clawing at the, at the wooden, at the at the door to try and get out, and that his nails are being ripped and he's screaming. But then. As soon as they were searching for him, he clamps his hand over the mouth. We, we actually filmed a section there where he does clamp his hand over his mouth and we put it in the edit initially, and then I took it out because I, I thought it was more powerful when Wrath said it than for us to show it. Yeah. Yeah. And, um, it, it was really, I mean, I thought again, that that young actor, that that portrayed wrath. Just for crying and screaming. He did an amazing job. He did,
Lauren: but I also loved the moment, uh, immediately after that where Beth is like, do not like, think of yourself in this way. Like, you know, like she speaks force.
Don't blame yourself. Yeah. Yeah. And I love that he reacted with like, no one's ever spoken to me like that. Just true. Everyone's too scared to talk to him like that. But there it shows a moment where they're becoming more equal and I really. Yeah. Loved that.
Tosca: Yeah. What, um, get over this warrior crap. Yes,
Lauren: yes. Get over Warrior crap is so good.
Tosca: Yeah. She's like, what? And she's like, oh, and maybe I misspoke. I'm not really sure. Mm-hmm. You're a vampire.
Lauren: Tough love, but to tough love. But to me it kind of perfectly leads. Us emotionally into him saying like, I love you. Don't leave me at the end of the episode.
Tosca: Oh. But I also love right after that. And he's like, Leland, she's like, is that vampire dog for bitch? And he's like, far from it. And of course we know. Um, and uh, uh, I love that he speaks in the old language again there. Mm-hmm. It's really, really pretty. So good. And then what I thought was really funny is that her alarm goes off. She's like, I gotta go to work now. Yeah. Oh. Sorry,
Lauren: babe. I got, I got my life to go back to. I love it. Exactly.
Tosca: And he's like, what? No, I don't like you to leave. And, and she's like, what could go wrong?
Lauren: She leaves, what could go wrong? I'm like, everything, honey. Everything. Don't say that. And yes. So we know the episode ends where we're not sure what happens to Beth.
Mm-hmm. Like, and, and, and Wrath admits these big feelings. Is there anything we can tease for next week's episode for people who might not be anticipating what's next without getting fired? Ali, do you think there's anything we can tease?
Ali: Ooh. We get to meet the Scribe Virgin.
Tosca: The Scribe Virgin. Yeah. Oh Yeah. Yeah. That's a big one. That is. And she, it's so cool. Yeah. Oh, I'm excited.
Ali: And we get to see everyone. We get to see all the boys together. Yes. That's for a celebration of sorts. See more of that. Yeah. Yes.
Lauren: A celebration of sorts.
Tosca: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And Butch gets more of an introductory, Butch gets more of an introduction into He does the chair.
Lauren: Oh,
Tosca: the vampire world. Oh, the chair. Yeah. And the chair. Oh, the chair.
Lauren: That's all we'll say. We don't, we won't say anything else. Just the chair, but Marissa and a chair. Chair, Butch, Marissa, a chair. Got it. Lots to look forward to in the next episode. Yeah. Um, but thank you all for chatting with me today.
Chatting with us today about this episode and, um. Again, feel free to comment on any of the places you listen, um, and our YouTube channel. And you can call in our call in number or your, or email and Tosca. Any last words?
Tosca: Yes, don't forget to share the series with everybody. Please, if you have enjoyed it, please share it with your friends.
Uh, the more people that watch the show, the better we can make season two. So thank you so much for your support. Thank you for watching. Thanks for sharing.