Brotherhood Breakdown: Episode 5

In this episode, Tosca, Lauren & Ali break down Episode Five of The Black Dagger Brotherhood. If you haven’t watched the episode yet, press pause and watch it first. We’re diving into major plot points, character moments and behind-the-scenes insights that could spoil the experience.

Come back after you’ve watched for all the juicy details, laughs and fan-favorite moments!

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Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction and Spoiler Alert
• 0:57 Beth's Emotional Journey
• 1:36 Wrath's Proposal and Character Growth
• 2:29 Beth's Transformation
• 3:06 Butch and Marissa's Relationship
• 3:29 JR Ward Added Line
• 8:45 Marissa's Stand and Butch's Realization
• 10:30 Mr. X and Billy's Creepy Moment
• 12:15 Wrath Meets the Scribe Virgin
• 17:26 Butch and V's Bonding
• 19:17 Beth and Wellsie's Bond
• 21:05 The Perfect Dress and Costume Design
• 21:58 Showcasing the Brotherhood's Physique
• 29:26 The Wedding Ceremony and Brotherhood Rituals
• 34:02 The Omega and Lesser Transformation
• 35:17 Cliffhangers and Emotional Finale
• 38:43 Signing Off!

Transcript

Lauren: Welcome back to another episode of Brotherhood Breakdown, our Companion PassionPod. This week we are going to be discussing episode five, and so this is a disclaimer for everybody. If you have not yet watched episode five of the Black Dagger Brotherhood, turn away. Now, do not listen to this episode.

Save it for later. Pin it for later, but do not listen because there will be massive spoilers. We are so excited about this episode. We talk about it a lot, so do not. Do not listen to this episode unless you have watched the episode already. Um, and I'm Lauren, the Director of Development here at Passionflix.

Ali: I'm Ali. I'm the Head of Marketing and Publicity, 

Tosca: and I'm Tosca. I'm the CEO and founder of Passionflix, and the Director of the Black Dagger Brotherhood. 

Lauren: Beautiful. 

So, so much happens in this episode so much, which is one of the reasons I was excited to talk about it. 

Tosca: Yeah, I It's not very long episode. It's the longest episode. I think it's, yeah. 

Lauren: Like so much of my favorite things happen in this episode. 

Ali: Same. 

Lauren: So I'm excited to talk about it. Um, but it opens with, we see Beth in the fade. Yeah. Uh, and I was wondering what the emotional tone you wanted to strike with that moment was and how you approached to visualizing it.

Tosca: Well, I always pictured the fade as that. Mm-hmm. This giant void, you know, we open, we're not sure if she's dead. And then this is a moment and it's the only time that we see maybe dad over there. Mm-hmm. We see Darius. So I think it was, uh, a lot of emotion in that she had to convey in like one very, very small scene.

Mm-hmm. Um, and, uh, as well as a recognition of her father. 

Lauren: Yeah. 

Tosca: And then, um, and then the yank back. 

Lauren: I know the yank back and then she, she is okay. And then I love the, the wrath proposes right after. I know. And then, and then she cannot respond 'cause she's still transitioning and just like, 

Tosca: but it's like, what a, what a way to propose. I know. It's like I nearly died. Will you marry me? What, what's going on? What's going on? 

Lauren: My god, it hurts so bad. And he's like, it's okay. It'll be over soon. Um, and then so, and then so, 

Tosca: and he's so caring. He is. He is. I mean, this goes from like, I am this like brutal. No, I can't love anyone guy to like, i've got you.

Yep. It's gonna be okay. 

Lauren: He has so much growth. I the end of episode four where he's like begging her not to leave him. I was like, oh, kills me. I know. Devastating. Um, so I love seeing how much he's like grown as a caring mm-hmm. Person. I have grown as a caring guy. Um, and so we also see Beth discovering her fangs for the first time. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I love that part, which I loved. It's a very physical transformation that comes with her identity shift. What were you hoping the audience would feel in that moment? 

Tosca: I think it's the excitement mm-hmm. Of something new, something. Fun. Yeah. And she's finding it kind of cool and sexy and 

Lauren: Yes.

Know that it was so funny when she takes, when she has to take her contacts out 'cause her vision's changed. Yeah. Uh, it made me think of like Spider-Man when he gets bit. Oh yeah. He has to take it. 

Tosca: I did it. Yeah. It's a very similar thing. We did actually reference a lot of those things. Yeah. 

Lauren: I loved it. I loved it. Um, we also see. More. I, I love Wrath and Beth, but I also love Butch and Marissa. 

Ali: Oh, I love them so much. 

Lauren: So we see, we get to see way more of them in this episode, which I love. Um, but we also see them chatting on the couch right before Rhage and Wrath interrupt at the same time. And that Rhage moment was hilarious to me. I was wondering if you could talk a little bit about what filming that moment was like. 

Tosca: That was actually really funny. Um, and it was really fun because Alex, who comes in his Rhage, he's like, I'm gonna take this dagger and I'm gonna throw it. But he was throwing this dagger at it. It was just like going everywhere. But eventually they got it. It was really, that was fun. Yeah. Yeah. Catch it. 

Lauren: Well, he got it a few times when we weren't rolling too. Like he was practicing and then Oh yeah. It's always, and that, I think that was one of the days that we had the founding and signature members on set too. And they were just cheering for him. We did like quietly behind the model be like, you can do it, you can do it. 

Tosca: It was fun. But that's also, um, an added line, um, that's not in the book. Right. From Rhage. 

Yeah. Um, and it was written by JR Ward. I love that. And she's like. He's like, oh, you try and do something, don't kill the human. No, because he's walking out.

And that was just like, it's one of my favorite lines. Yeah. Yeah. Jr's like, it'd be really great if he said this line. So we added it in, even though it's not in the book, but it just really portrays his character. Mm-hmm. And makes that humor. And I, what my favorite part is that you have like Butch, fully like fish out of water going, what the hell is going on here?

Like, what's going on? And he's like. Okay. Don't kill the humans. What's going on? They have daggers throwing daggers. There's this girl here. 

Lauren: Well, and Rhage comes into the room saying, get away from the king shellan. And he's like, what? What are those words exactly? Um, but I'm, I was also so proud of Marissa in that scene after Rhage leaves and she finally gets to have her like voice heard by Wrath.

Like, you know, you don't have to protect me anymore. Yes. And you know, I, I want something else for myself and yeah. Turns out that's his butch. 'cause I like him and I just love that for Yeah. 

Tosca: I'll have the human if I want to. Yeah, I know. Well, and I, I was for you, 

Lauren: I was super impressed that even in the old language we were still like feeling that through the, um, even through the closed captions, but through the language they were speaking, you could still feel that tone.

Tosca: Yeah. 

Lauren: Have we talked about how you created the language? I'm trying to remember. 

Tosca: Yes. I don't. Uh, yeah, I think we did. Oh, okay. Um, but yeah, it was so many different, um, languages put together. Yeah. I love it. Um, but I love that they were arguing in the old language, so in the book mm-hmm. We actually don't hear what they say.

Right. They go, Butch says they're going there, they're speaking some language, but it's all actually shown from Butch's perspective. Mm-hmm. And he's just watching them having this argument and then she comes back to him. Yeah. Um, but I thought it would be really nice. To have her actually push Wrath back.

Yes. Mm-hmm. And wrath does not back up man. No. Yeah. And Marissa's is like, I'm backing you up. You are gonna stay away from this guy. This guy's mine. 

Lauren: Yeah, that was great. Blocking, I loved that. Um, and, but then Wrath of course, has to threaten Butch of 

Tosca: course, as he does. Yes. 

Lauren: Um, and I, 

Tosca: but he threatens him for a good reason now. He is like 

Lauren: for a great reason. You know, I also loved his ending line where he is like, you're in my world now. Cop. 

Tosca: Yeah. 

Lauren: It's like Butch does not even know how true that is until a little bit later. Yeah. Um, shortly after that, Beth comes upstairs, you know, checks him with Butch all that's fine. But then my other favorite moment as she goes in to see where Wrath is in the dining room.

Oh yeah. And all the brothers are there. Yeah. They, they all kneel before her. Which came out so well. Yeah. And that like it's looks so good in the show. Thanks. But I was wondering if you wanted to talk a little bit about filming that scene. 

Tosca: Well, I mean it was great. I did it sort of like a dance dance. I was, yeah. So as they going 1, 2, 3, 4. 5, 6, 7, 8. Yeah. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8. And they all had to move in this way and then on from different points in the room. Different. It's crazy that they were able to sink it so Well. Yeah, but there's me in the background going 1, 2, 3, 5, 6, 7, 8. I was like. Ballet or dance moves these guys, I mean, they were so great and they, they, they know these characters.

Mm-hmm. And they're just, they are like so empowered by them and it's so, they're like, great, we'll just coordinate it. And so as soon as we said, okay, we're just gonna do it on the count, they were like, all right, in, we got it. 

Lauren: Yeah. And my, one of my other favorite lines of like the whole book is Wrath. Wrath Comes in and he is like, oh, they like you. They like you. I'm just like, great. Yeah. The daggers. Yep. 

Tosca: That's so great that they like me. Yeah. Um, can you just imagine from Beth's perspective though, you're like, da, da, da. They're like, oh, I'm a vampire now. And then, oh God. All these very, very large people are coming towards me with daggers.

Lauren: She did such a good job with that. She was so good. Yeah, she's so good. And then we have another Butch and Marissa scene. More of them. Yeah. I love them so much. 

Tosca: My, my favorite is like, Marissa goes, I will go now, um, but I will touch you before I go. He's like, and Butch's, like, anyway, the way that he says that I touch you, like, anyway, I was like, 

Lauren: yes, but they're so good together, so good.

Tosca: And then she's like, your mouth and it's like, but I was like, what? I know it was. So good the way that they did it. Mm-hmm. And she's so innocent and he's like, oh my God. Mm-hmm. This is like the most amazing experience of my life. And you, you just, I mean, we all know Butch's background, so like, this is like, he's not so delicate.

And then she's like, it's just a, and he's like. Okay. And then I mean, how he's like basically then just like accuses her of being like a prostitute. Yeah. 

Lauren: This is definitely a drug Lord's house, like, you know. 

Tosca: Yeah, exactly. It's so hard up for pop and cherry. So I was like, oh. And he does it. So well, so good. And she was just like, what? But what I loved so much about that was, so then she once again stands up and she's never really, as the character, you know, stood up for herself. Mm-hmm. And she's like, I have never once been touched like that. I know. Like her speech all, and she did it. So well, yeah. Victory, so great. Mm-hmm. Um, and it was just, I mean, when we were filming it, I was like, I have a tear in my eye again. Mm-hmm. Every time she performs and she stands up for herself, I was like, yes, you go Marissa, I can't wait to see your journey, but she did it so well. Mm-hmm. So we just held on her for that. And that just allows Butch to be like. 

Lauren: Oh my god. Like, I'm just a fucking idiot. Like, I love you. Should be mad at me for a week, a month or more maybe. Yeah, I know. 

Tosca: It's like, I forgive you. No, no. You can't forgive me yet. So that's not how this works. I'm, you're supposed to be mad. 

Lauren: Well, and then, and then she disappears. 

Ali: Oh, that's my favorite, favorite part.

Lauren: What is, what does he say again, Ali? 

Ali: Oh. Shit. And I heard when you guys were editing that, I kept hearing Oh shit. Every day in the office. That is one of my favorite parts of the whole season. 

Lauren: It's so and so, and I wanted to know if someone disappeared right in front of you, how would you react? 

Tosca: I would probably go, oh shit.

Lauren: Exactly how he did. No, he, yeah, he portrayed it extremely well and like, like, and then he searches around the room for her a little bit. Yeah. Like, no, she's hiding somewhere clearly. Yeah. Oh my gosh. 

Tosca: And like, it's just so funny because then you have like, is everything okay? No, no, she just disappeared.

Mm-hmm. It's like now he's just like, like you would say that. 

Ali: Mm-hmm. I also, I like it because we've seen Michael and Driven and then we see him as Butch this whole time, but I've not seen his acting comedy chops until down. Mm-hmm. He's so good. He's so funny. 

Tosca: He's. He's very, very talented. Yeah, 

Lauren: because I love all of his and V's moments too.

Oh yes. Where they bond over the Red Sox. Yeah. Yeah. After he learns about them and we, so we also see that Billy agrees to work for Mr. X. In this episode. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And we see Mr. X use a little bit more of his powers on Billy. Yeah. With the convulsion, which I like. I think we had watched it pre you adding all of the effects and sound and stuff.

Mm-hmm. I was like, oh my God. Like that. So creepy. Such an intense, creepy moment. Um, do you think Billy truly knew at that moment, like what he was getting into? 

Tosca: I don't know if he does. I don't think so. I don't think so the way I put it. Agree. Yeah. 

Lauren: Yeah. Um, he's still kind of like not fully aware. He's like, oh, I'm just joining the academy. Yeah. Yeah. 

Tosca: I mean, definitely feels like there's a new life for him, but no, I don't think that he's fully aware of his, you know, his heart's about to be chopped out and his. Blood. You know, red, you know, human blood turned into this black omega blood. Oh yeah. And switched out. 

Ali: You know, when we filmed that scene, I just remember sitting there in shock because I had no idea it was gonna be that graphic. Same because I do have behind the scenes of that. Oh yeah. It was so gross. So gross. 

Lauren: It was so gross. 

Tosca: I was like, yeah, it was gross. Yeah. But I was like, and you know, not normal for me to do that kind of thing. Yeah. 'cause it's very sort of more horror feeling. But you know, this is. That's sort of like a horror romance in many ways.

Right? And um, and it was great. We have to thanks and we have to get across how brutal and when he throws up and stuff was like, oh, oh my God, to be, you know, transformed by the Omega because we have to sell. We wanted to sell that. And um, and of course as we move further and further into the seasons, we will see it more and we just need to, uh, you know.

No. That it's not a pleasant process. Yeah. 

Lauren: Well I think we definitely got that across. Yes. Yeah. So Wrath also meets the Scribe Virgin. Yes. Which is huge in terms of, it's one of the most mysterious and mythical scenes of the whole season. Mm-hmm. When he goes to visit her, what were some of the biggest creative challenges for creating the Scribe Virgin?

Tosca: There are a number of things. One, the first day an all white courtyard, so we had to build that courtyard. It's all white and, and when I first read it, I actually thought it was like. Large. Yeah. But no, it wasn't. It's, it's a small courtyard like that per JR. Ward. And I was like, okay, well that actually makes it a lot easier.

Right. But we had to build everything, so we had to build that fountain and make it, make a white fountain, build the tree, build the cut, everything was Yeah. Built. Mm-hmm. From scratch. So that was wonderful. The art department did an amazing job. Mm-hmm. And I think it looks really beautiful. And then, um, and then of course, Scribe Virgin, the hardest thing is that we can't show her face.

Mm-hmm. And that she's supposed to glow. Right. And so some film, some shots of, of what she actually was wearing, but, and the actress was fantastic. 

Lauren: Yeah. Kate Kovac, she was, yeah. 

Tosca: She was so fantastic. And she did not complain at all, but she was covered mm-hmm. In lights. Yeah. 

Ali: Yeah. You should talk about that process and how long it took to get Oh boy.

Tosca: A very, very, very long time. Hours and hours and hours of covering her in lights and, and making sure that it's shot. And then like when we're filming her, like she can't lift her head too much and you can't see too much of her face. Mm-hmm. And that was, uh, it was hard. Um, and, and it's also interesting because later on we do see her face. Yeah. So it's like I have to like Right. Not make it so impossible. And so, and she's also, it's a very long scene. Mm-hmm. Her voice had to be so. Great. Mm-hmm. Uh, in her performance, which she did, Kate did an amazing job, um, that we don't need to see her face. Mm-hmm. Um, and it was one of the things that I was saying to um, JR as well. 'Cause in the book it's like she raises an eyebrow, she's looks, looks down him. I was like, okay, we can't see any of that. Yeah. Yeah. We can't see her raising her eyebrows. We can't see her. Doing any of those things right. 'cause we don't see her face. Mm-hmm. We don't see her face. So I, I I thought it came across so well.

I thought she was great. Agreed. Yeah. Um, you know, also the, um, the prism from the fountain, right? Oh yeah. And you can finally see color for a minute. Oh yeah. And then, and Wrath's eyes being able to see, yeah, that was really cool. And visual effects. And it was kind of confusing 'cause when I read the. Book. I thought that when she touched the fountain, the whole world became colorful. Oh. So I thought like the trees became colorful. Mm-hmm. Like all the white was removed and that it's not that obviously. Um, it was this prism effect. So I was like, oh God. Okay, prism. 

Lauren: So it's not like that would've been a bit more set design, having a whole other courtyard that was fully colored. Now it's fully colored by the way.

Tosca: I went through like. 12 to 15 versions of that prism. Oh, I bet. And visual effects, like, no, it's not that prism. No, it's not that you get it right. It's this, this color. No, it's not that color. And, and it's multiple shots and it has to go on his face and mm-hmm. So yeah, that prism effect. Yeah, but no prison. The birds prison. The birds. 

Lauren: The birds. That scene is one of the more devastating to me in the books. Just 'cause like, you truly realize how alone the Scribe Virgin has been. Yeah. That she's like, you haven't sought my counsel. Yeah. You know, I, your father and I were such, so close. Yeah. And so I'm glad that he, she's like, ha ha, he's come to be wanting something and now I can make him be king. 

Tosca: And then she hands him the ring. I know. 

Lauren: Yeah. The ring. That giant ring. 

Tosca: Yeah. And that ring. As you we find out afterwards, is that when he gives it to Beth that it was his mom's ring. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And so there's so much meaning because we previously heard that his parents mm-hmm. Were burnt and there was nothing left for him to bury. Yeah. So that ring was not there. Right. Yeah. And so this is like. The emotional attachment to that ring. I mean, it's just so beautiful. Yeah. No, it's so good. So like JR 

Lauren: I know she so many emotional beats she hits. Yeah. And I'm glad we portrayed it really well. Yeah. 

Tosca: And but also in, in that scene with the Scribe Virgin, we have to learn so much information about the vampire world too. There's only this small community of vampires here. Nobody celebrates all these things and so we had to get all the information out while at the same time as you know. All these things. 

Ali: Yeah, it came across really well. 

Tosca: Thank you really, really well. I loved it. It was fun. It's one of my favorite shots is when before going to the Scribe Virgin, um, is when wrath is kneeling on the floor in the white with the pearls.

Yeah. Costumes got real pearls. Wow. It was expensive, but I just thought it was so great. He looked so good in that white, in the black room. And then as you and we moved across. You know, and there was Beth sleeping and then, um, Butch and V having their frank conversation chatting about, you know, um, baseball and, um, I love that.

Yeah. And the brothers, the other brothers in the dining room. Mm-hmm. And I was like, I just thought it was really. Nice. I, I like that sort of, uh, it was planned and it was great that it was planned that way, but 'cause that's how it's also written in the book. Mm-hmm. But I just, I thought it came off really well.

I really like that shot of him kneeling. 

Lauren: Yeah. No, it's a great shot. It's, it's perfect in my opinion. Um, so we also see Butch and V as. Bunk buddies, you know, roommates and I, I kept forgetting that that scene was ha was gonna happen. And then I remember seeing that set and I was like, oh my gosh, they share this room. Yeah, it's so good. But they and fans, the tiny, tiny beds, the little twin beds, the tiny bed. It's so funny. Um, but fans love. Butch and v's. Chemistry. Yeah. Um, was including the scene kind of a deliberate nod to their future bond? Absolutely. Yeah. 

Tosca: Yeah, absolutely. It was, and also it's where Butch, um, says to v What's up with the tats?

Mm. Yeah. And, and v's like, I didn't bother you about your curse. And because he knows mm-hmm. And so, you know, I'm not gonna tell you about mine. And we know his, and I was like, oh my God. It's like so much foreshadowing. 

Lauren: Yeah, so much foreshadowing. And I love, I love it because I feel like fans might even pull back from that episode once we get to those seasons. Oh yeah. 

Tosca: And, and how did he, but I also love the casual threat. Don't open those blinds or my, my brothers will leave you shitting in a. Got it. Well hear you. I hear you. Yeah, 

Lauren: I hear you. Mm-hmm. But I also feel like it was like he, I mean, he had to tell him just in case, but opened the blinds. But also it was very trusting in that moment too, of like, yeah, you could kill me if you wanted by opening the blinds you would, you would die too. But yeah. Um, I like that. How, how did you, how did the actors play off of each other? 

Tosca: Did you, oh my God, they're so good. I mean, these guys all just, they all get along. They, uh, they're, they're prac, they're brothers already. Yeah. All of them. It's so great and, and you know, that is a high risk, right? When you're making a show like this and you have so many main characters. Mm-hmm. The fact that they all get along and they spend time together, it's just like, I can't believe it. A blessing. 

Lauren: We got, we got so lucky. Like it, they're, it's, it's cute that they, I I love seeing that they still hang out. Yeah. Yeah. Even after shooting, it's really special. 

Tosca: So this is the episode as well where Wellsie and. Beth meet Beth meets Wellsie. Mm-hmm. And I thought it was, it was so cute. And she just sort of comes in with this chest and she's like, here's a dress, which is red and black and full of beads. Mm-hmm. And it hasn't been worn since the 18 hundreds. Oh yeah. And, um, and Beth's like, Ooh, great. I'll wear this dress. It's so sexy. And it is. Yeah. Um, but, um, what do you think, what do you think about the significance of their bond? 

Lauren: I really, I love that scene because I feel like we, like, just like how Wellsie said, she's like, yeah, I haven't had, you know, I've been the only. You know, shellan of the brotherhood and, but now we can talk to each other, like if you're ever having a hard time.

And it was like, wow. They like kind of becoming like sister-in-law, sisterhood ish. Yeah. And I, I appreciated that they could then be there for each other. And I thought Kim Whalen did a great job. 

Ali: Kind of, she did a great job feel more real too for me. That, that Beth was now really in this world and yeah, here's. Here's my new life, here's my new friends and Yeah. Yeah. The found family again. 

Tosca: Yeah. It is very much so found family. And especially when they're talking before the wedding, um, and you know, helping her get dressed and she's like, we are, this is your family. Yeah. And it's really beautiful. 'cause Wellsie's like mom in the same way that Tohr is like dad.

Yes. Yes. You know? Yes. Yes. And um, and then I love that Tohr comes to the door. Yes. Before the wedding. I know. And he's like, oh God, what's wrong? Is it the baby? Yeah. So, and he's just so sweet. Sweet Joel is just so lovely, so lovely. Um, but it definitely feels a little bit more like a family. Mm-hmm. Right? So beforehand it's like, ha, we're vampires and we kill people and it's all the fighting. But now you see how close they are mm-hmm. And how much of a family they are. 

Lauren: Yeah. And I know, I know she probably felt like she was already getting wrath, but I think it probably hit her more that she was getting everybody. Yeah. I think is lovely. 

Ali: Can you talk about the dress? 

Tosca: Oh yes. The dress is incredible.

The dress is incredible. That was made for her. Oh, yes. Yeah. Oh, Jose did a great job. Jose, our costume designer, did a phenomenal job. We literally went through like 20 different designs, but it was so specific. 'cause it's so, it's written in the bed, it's red and it's got black beads on it, and it's sort of got a little, it's an 1800's.

Mm-hmm. But it can't be old fashioned, but it can't be modern. And we wanna cover the arms because it. It was like all these sorts of things that we had to go through and, um. I think what we ended up with is just so perfect. And when JR saw it, she's like, oh my God. It was just, it was exactly in her head.

It was like, so she was so happy with it, which, you know, I'm, you're constantly stressed that it's not gonna be exactly right. Absolutely. And uh, and she loved it, so I was like, yay. Okay, perfect. I know 'cause we want you. That's how you know, once Jr's happy. Yeah. But I did think that costumes deserves like a specific kudos for the brothers outfits.

Oh, he knew what he was doing so good. He knew what he was doing. I was like, 'cause we're having those conversation and, and Jr's like, well, you know, it's like they're wearing jackets and flowing pants. And I was like, okay, but can the jackets be he like. Okay. Even to here, because they all have beautiful abs. Yeah. And we wanna see them all. 

Lauren: No, when they, when they came out of their trailer, its just for the scene, and I was waiting for them and they didn't have shirts on. I was like, is this your whole, is that the whole wardrobe? I was like, all right, let's do it. 

Ali: Let's go. And then we absolutely didn't. Impromptu photo shoot that night. Yep. As you do. 

Lauren: Yeah. Yeah. As you do. That's amazing. 

Tosca: Yeah. Um, but, um, I, I thought that was very important for, I was like, these guys have, you're looking out for us too. Yeah. It was there for you. Thank you. Um, but it was so important. I mean, all these guys have like. Perfect, perfect bodies. Yeah. And so I was like, okay, we have to have at least one scene where we see them all. Mm-hmm. Because otherwise, the rest of the guys, we'd, we see wrath of course, and he's right. Perfect body. But I was like, what about the other guys? Yeah. Yeah. I, I remember the very first conversation I had with Sia the first time we. Met and he came to, um, they were all living in the same neighborhood for shooting and we all going out for dinner and he's giant. So I was like, hello? And, and big. And, and when I give him a hug, he's like, he's literally, he's rock solid. Mm-hmm. You like, yeah. Yeah. There's no give there. Um, but I remember talking to all of them and going, so, you know, um, all the vampires are hairless. You have to be constantly shaved everywhere except for his goatee and their hair.

On their face and their head. Um, but otherwise they're completely hairless. And she was like. I'm always completely hair. God dang. See that's hilarious. Like that's how I am. I will say, and I'm like in his deep, deep voice. Mm-hmm. That's how I am.

Lauren: He is one of the boys that I should, I'm like, he's one of the guys that I did not have to wait on in the hair and makeup trailer to get shaved. Like, no, because to shave his chest, because thanks. I need to thank JR for that because that was timing. I never gave Carlos. I was like, oh, they're ready. And then suddenly they're taking out like one of the buzz raise and I was like, you've gotta be kidding me. Do a quick, if you can like it just. We gotta go, we gotta go shave their bodies. Well that's like everything, hair on their arm. Because they would everywhere the, when we were getting ready for the wedding scene because they have the split shirt. Yeah. They all had to shave their chest again. Uhhuh to make sure. And I was like, and they, some of them save it for right before to make sure it's as close as can be. Yeah. Yeah. I was like, I appreciate that. But the timing, this is gonna take, yeah. Uh, but it was worth it. It was so worth it. Totally worth it. It was so worth it. 

Ali: Um, also, I think we need Sia's skincare routine because oh, we do, God, we're seeing more perfect skin. How is it so than that man has, I don't know. 

Tosca: May we are gonna have to get him to do something.

Lauren: He's gonna have to show us a tutorial. Exactly. 'cause it's great. Um, it's impressive. Yeah. It's just flawless skin. It is flawless that we then covered, flawless, covered in V's tattoo. I know also, you know, pre the wedding, we have the, the chair scene between Oh. Butch and Marissa, which I, I feel like you guys blocked that so well in that. Like, I just love because it's her first time. I dunno if it's her first kiss. Well, I think it is her first kiss. Yeah. But just like Butch is like, I'm, it's fine. It's fine. Um, but I was wondering too, if you could talk about who you blocked that scene with. 

Tosca: I imagine it was me and Carlos. 

Lauren: It absolutely was. I asked because Ali may have mentioned she has a picture of me. I do. Me and Carlos, 

Ali: you asked me to sit with him at first, and then I was not doing it right. And you're like. And then you got up and you had Carlos sitting there and I have a great picture of you just leaning over him. 

Tosca: Yeah. That's basically how all our things are, uh, blocked. 

Lauren: You're a very hands-on director. 

Tosca: Me and Carlos was great. Carlos was like, and then we're gonna do this, and then Carlos just lie there and, 

Lauren: okay. So good. It was so good. But I, I just, I love, I loved another moment of the two of them getting to know each other and Yeah. Like it's just their chemistry is. And it's great. 

Tosca: I will kiss you 

Lauren: now. He'll kiss, kiss you now. Oh, I know. He's like, I can't handle this. Like brutal honesty. And this upfrontness like, okay. 

Tosca: And she's just so sweet. She's like, he's like, how? How do you feel? And he's like, she's like, I feel warm. Here. I know. And here, and he's like, oh. He's like, you're killing me, man. Man, you're killing me. He's like, do you feel anything? He's like, oh, you better believe it. 

Lauren: Like, it's so good. They did such a good job. 

Ali: I loved that. When we, um, showed the video of JR Meeting Wrath for the first time. Mm-hmm. The broken chair was in the background and quite a few fans noticed it, and they, they called it out. Oh, that, so they really Oh, that's hilarious for that scene. I love that. 

Lauren: And so we also. Before the wedding see Wrath and Mr. X finally come face to face. Mm-hmm. Oh, that was cool. 

Tosca: Oh my God. Was a really fun. That was so much fun. 

Lauren: I completely, for forgot until watching it again that he like launches from the woods and I know stuff physically stops the truck.

Tosca: I was like, oh my God, that's so good. I know. It's badass when we, so it's, that's another one of those stunts that when we, when we filmed it on the day, it just like, I was like, what just happened? I know he flew out of the woods. Mm-hmm. And stops the truck. I was like. That was amazing. Mm-hmm. That was so much fun. That was so good. It was, it was a definitely, um, a highlight. I can't wait for all the more stunts. More stunts. Fun, fun. 

Lauren: More stunts. Right. They're fun. And Mr. X realizes that the blind king is mm-hmm. Not a myth. He's real. Um, and I, I feel like from the book. Wrath might have been feeling some evil behind him, but do you think that wrath even fully knew exactly how bad of a guy Mr. X was when they came face-to-face the first time? 

Tosca: I think so because, um, of, of how white Mr. X's hair is and how pale his eyes are. Yeah. Because that's how we know how long they've been a lesser Right. And they know that, and that he said, we'll be seeing you and the new recruit. So he knows that he's recruiting Billy. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Um, and also, you know, from what he's been told from Beth and Butch, um, he knows how bad Billy is, so. Mm-hmm. So now we understand that lesser's recruit and all that sort of thing. Mm-hmm. Um, I don't think he knows that he's the Forelesser Yeah. But I think that he definitely knows he's a strong lesser, 

Lauren: but that makes me think of the end of the.

Wrath v Butch seat upstairs when Butch is like, oh yeah, I got kicked off the force. He's like, why? Oh yeah. And it's 'cause I, you know, knocked some dude's face in. Yeah. Mm-hmm. He is like, who he is, like the guy who, you know. Yeah. Tried to, I was 

Tosca: like, I wasn't, I wasn't, um, inclined to believe him when he said that your wife, your, she, he was asking for it. Your future wife was asking for it or whatever. 

Lauren: And the Wrath's like haul ass, V. But I also love that wrath. Then immediately goes and hugs Beth. Beth when he sees her, because it's just like, oh, I could have lost you. Like that's, I know all the emotions. 

Tosca: By the way, that was the first time in the first time that, um, Robert and Olivia kissed.

Lauren: Really? Yeah. 

Tosca: That was their first kiss when shooting. 

Lauren: So out of all the, you know, wow, I'm so discombobulated. 

Tosca: So that was their first time. And so he held her and then they kissed and I was like, okay, can we, we're gonna do that again because I, you know, little bit more passion. He goes, yeah, not, it was their first time. They're like, okay. And I was like, no, try again. Do it again. 

Lauren: I know I was, because we, 'cause we do, we do shoot things out of order. Yeah. And I, yeah, that, but I'm. That's just a great job. Thanks. 'cause you can't tell they wasn't first. They were. 

Tosca: And also it's like, that's not literally like a grab passion kiss either.

More like, but it needs to be a heartfelt kiss. Mm-hmm. After, after they got got past the first kiss, then they're like, oh, okay, now I can go. We got it. Yeah. We got this. 

Lauren: Uh, so can we talk about the, uh, location and set design for the wedding? Oh yeah. And how did you want it to feel, uh, when you were planning it out?

Tosca: Well, it had to be Wrath's bedroom without furniture. Right. That's how it's described. This is true Wrath's bedroom without furniture. This is, yeah. And I was like, where'd that furniture go? Um, but that's, that's really all it is. So we actually had to film that first, and then we got to film all of R's bedroom things, because you can't just, in the world of filmmaking, it's, it's a bare room. Right. And then you film the bare room. Then you dress the entire thing. Yeah. So that was the first time that any of us had seen it. But also because the room is black everywhere. It's black. Black everywhere. You can't walk on the ground 'cause you'll see footprints everywhere. So everyone's wearing these little slippers and stuff like that. Booties? Yeah. Little booties. 

Lauren: Oh yeah, the booties. Yeah. I forgot about those, but that's important 'cause Yeah, we don't wanna see Random poor art department would've been like, ah, trying to clean it up. But, so the presence of the brotherhood during the wedding, uh, added so much, I think gravity to the moment just them being there. 'Cause it was, it was more than just, um, their wedding. It's also the king's wedding. Mm-hmm. I was just wondering, how did you want to show their respect and unity through the scene? 

Tosca: Well, I thought it was very important to show that Phury is sort of like this. Not the minister. The uh, why are we officiant tt Wow. We all got there. You know, when you're not a priest, but you're actually like, you go and you do that little certificate and then you're able to marry your friends, that sort of thing. 

Lauren: Yeah. He's the officiant. Yeah. Yeah. I like that. 

Tosca: And so, uh, so I, it was important to show that that's who he. That's his role.

Yeah. Mm-hmm. And he, um, makes sure that we follow the ritual mm-hmm. That we are doing things the way that it's supposed to be. 

Lauren: Yeah. Uh, and I like that he said, we'll try to do this as English as much as possible, so you understand? Yeah. And like he was kind of calming Beth right before Yeah. He Wrath arrived, just shows up in the room.

Tosca: Yeah. And then he speaks to wrath and Yeah. You know, basically. Guides, officiates that mm-hmm. Union. And then they take, uh, they take each other to Scribe Virgin. Mm-hmm. Another scene with the Scribe virgin, another place where we couldn't show light. Yeah. And that one, that scene just with Scribe Virgin, her.

Shooting just took like, I dunno if it was three hours, that took a long time just to put her into that outfit. Right. Um, that was hard. And she did not complain. She was phenomenal. Yeah. Um, seeing the brothers all together there, they're all together and then they sing that mm-hmm. Song. 

Lauren: I was gonna say Yeah. We hear Zsadist singing. Yeah. Mm-hmm. And, um, it's a pretty, like, deeply. A deep moment for his character, I would say. Mm-hmm. Because we haven't seen that side of him yet. No. Um, and what was it like crafting the song and working with Andrew on his performance there? 

Tosca: Well, actually it was Mike Carpenter. So Mike, who works with us here at Passionflix, he's our director of music. He wrote that song. Mm-hmm. Beautifully done. And then he worked with the actors. Yeah, that's good. So he would go and meet them and he worked with them and, and recorded it. And I, I love Mike so much. He, he was like, this is so important. And, you know, he was like, it's gotta be great. But he really worked with, um, with Andrew on that. Andrew was determined to do a great job and I think he did a great job. 

Lauren: He did. He did an amazing job. It came out really well. Yeah. I feel like that's gonna be one of the favorite moments from the episode. Yeah. 

Tosca: What do you guys think about the slicing into Wrath's back? 

Lauren: Oh, my back. Oh my God. I mean that was something from the book that I was like, why are they doing this?

Ali: I knew it was happening, but still even on set when you see it mm-hmm. On this back. It's so wild. It's so wild. 

Lauren: It's so wild. Yeah. Yeah. And just, yeah. I love, but I, that was another moment where I appreciated the fact that Wellsie was there. 'cause she could kinda hold Beth back. Yeah. And be like, you gotta let them do this. This is their my manly man thing. Yeah. Like the brotherhood thing that they just have to do to show. And he like that like. The brothers are kind of proud that he's not making any noise. He's just taking it and yeah. 

Tosca: And then, um, and I love Beth's thing. She's like, can we just not do that again? And he's like, you better brace yourself when we have children. Yep. And I was like, oh yeah, because then it's like all over your back. 

Lauren: Mm-hmm. 

Tosca: Yeah. 

Lauren: Mm-hmm. Um, no, that was, ugh. The whole wedding in as, as a whole. I'm glad we got to see it in this episode 'cause it's just so beautiful. 

Tosca: Yeah. 

Lauren: Um, and then you see them all having fun after. 

Ali: Yeah. And that's great, 

Lauren: Fritz. Freaky. He was dabbing his eyes. 

Tosca: He was, did you say he was like, yeah. He was so cute. He, I love so good. And there's butch. Butch is like, I'm here man. Yeah. I'm here with Marissa 

Lauren: and marissa. They're just like, all right, we're witnesses. 

Tosca: I, yeah, we came for the wedding. It's gonna be great. 

Lauren: Mm-hmm. Uhhuh. Um, but so we, we also kind of af right after that, we see a bit of the Omega. When, during the scene where Billy gets changed into a lesser, can you talk a bit about what wa what it was like getting the Omega ready to shoot as well? 

Tosca: Well, very similar to, um, Scribe Virgin, although we didn't need to see that much of him. Mm-hmm. Yeah, because even in the book it's just, you see this white, um, iridescent. Cloak. Yeah. And a glowing hand. So, you know, we, we just, we, we didn't wanna show too much of him. We are gonna experience that later on, um, in this series. Mm-hmm. Um, but so it was just, it was the same thing. Just very, very simple shots, not giving too much away. Yeah. Um, but understanding that. You know, especially with Mr. X watching, and Mr. X is just watching and he's like, this is so good. I know his face. Oh my God, his face. And I'm like, wow. 

Lauren: Anytime I come to Mr. X I'm like, Jesus. Oh my God. 

Tosca: And he's just like, welcome, Mr. R. 

Lauren: I know. He's so creepy, so creepy. So creepy. 

Tosca: He loved it. He's so, you know, in real life he's just so sweet and so nice and he has like bunnies and he's like, I have bunnies. And then he is like me and Supreme, 

Lauren: but just shows how good of an actor he is. He can completely become the character. Yeah. So we see Marissa go home and we see that Havers is really upset. Yeah. With the fact that she was at Darius again. Probably seeing the brute. Yep. Um, and we kind of end on a cliffhanger when he and Z. Have that conversation in the alley that I mm-hmm. I always forget that we show this, but Tohr overhears it. Yeah. And immediately, immediately disappears right before the, the whole show cuts out. And I was like, yeah. And that part of the episode, I was like, oh my God. Oh my God. Oh my God. I know. Um, what do you think, do you think the audience is like emotionally prepared for what the finale is going to be? What's gonna come, like episode six? Yeah. What's gonna happen? Do you think anybody's ready for all of it? 

Tosca: No. No. I mean, it's just 

Lauren: No, no. 

Tosca: Even I'm not emotionally prepared for episode six. Yeah, same. Um, so much happens and it's scary. Mm-hmm. Um, so, um, it's brutal. It's brutal. It's brutal. Yeah. Yeah. And, and Havers man.

Lauren: He's this poor guy. He's going off to that deep end. Yeah, he's suffering. 

Tosca: Yeah. Fucking havers. Oh my gosh. I know. And Kellen again a nice, such a nice guy. And I'm like, dude, you play a really, no, we don't like you. Yeah. No, no. 

Lauren: Um, but I did wanna know which scene were you most proud of in episode five? Or we can also just have you 

Ali: say if you have a favorite scene. I was gonna say, I'll go back to my favorite scene still in the way you did it with. With, but, and Marissa and, and her materializing that still, that whole section was my favorite. Same fun. It was just so fun. It was so good and it just added such a lighthearted moment to everything and I loved it. Yeah, that was fun. But also, I'm so proud of you for the Billy scene, which hard I know. Yes. Holy shit. I didn't know you had that in you, but, 

Lauren: well, I'm, I also wanna know what the hardest scene to shoot was, but I'm wondering if that was it or which one it would be. 

Tosca: Well, the most complicated scene was the wedding. Yeah, that makes sense because there's so many people in it. Mm-hmm. So many things and there's so many practical effects. Right? Yeah. So the Scribe Virgin and then Wraths back and all those things and all of those things take time. So complicated and, and took a very long time to film that. And I wanted to get it right 'cause it's a wedding and weddings always, you know, people are waiting for this. Yeah. Um, and then, um. It's hard to pick. I'm like, it's so hard to pick. 'cause like, you know, there's rage and Wrath in the Dagger and then there's, there's V and Butch in the bedroom and, and that was really fun. Yeah. And oh, and the shower scene. Oh, yeah. With Wrath and Beth. Mm-hmm. And that was so, mm-hmm. Beautiful. 

Lauren: I feel like you've also over the years, perfected the art of filming shower scenes in our, in our movies. 

Tosca: Well, I built that shower, so I did film shower scenes. We shoot so many shower scenes. There are so many shower scenes in all romance novels. Yeah. That we built a shower that we could film in to allow us to be able to have cameras in certain places. Yeah. And not get wet. Yeah. Yeah. That's important. Yeah. A lot of, a lot of Passionflix movies have been filmed in that shower. Yeah. 

Lauren: I love it. It's just a little, um, Easter egg shower. Yeah. It's the same one. You just don't realize it. Yeah. Um, many different colors. Many different colors. Exactly. And I'm excited as well. I'm, it's the finale next week. Yeah. But we also get the finale companion episode with you and JR. Mm-hmm. Again, yes. Which is super fun 'cause I had a great time watching you guys do the first episode together. 

Tosca: Oh, thanks. 

Lauren: Yeah, so I think people will really enjoy you guys doing the finale as well. 

Tosca: Okay. Yeah, she's awesome.

Lauren: She's great. 

Tosca: Yeah. 

Lauren: I just wanted to also reiterate, we are hoping to do a, uh, PassionPod episode where we take just. Black Dagger Brotherhood, questions from fans. Oh yeah. So if you have a question about the series or the season so far, feel free to leave it at our phone number or our email info@passionflix.com or any of the comments on our YouTube or any of the other channels.

Uh, and we will take a look and we'll add it to the show. Um, and if you call in, we, we will even play the question, which is fun. Um. But thanks guys for talking about this. I love episode five. I'm so glad everyone got to watch it now. 

Tosca: It was so much fun. And, and again, I'm gonna ask all you guys to please keep sharing this series with all of your friends. Um, it means the world to us that you guys are watching and, um, you know, I understand that there occasionally some technical difficulties, but we're working on it. And, um. But, but please, you know, share with your friends. Um, the more you guys watch, the sooner we can make season two. And we just love this series. We really, really appreciate your support and, uh, love that you're loving it. Yeah. Along with us. 

Ali: Yep. 

Lauren: It's awesome. All right. Thanks guys. Thank you. 

Tosca: Have a great day.