Etiquette and Strategy in Tennis

Carolyn 0:07

Hi , this is Carolyn , and I'm here with Erin and we received an etiquette question . That was pretty interesting . Erin , can you read it ?

Erin 0:14

Yes , I'd love to , and thank you to everyone that emails us . We love getting emails from people . This one says I have a question . I was hoping that you would explore this on the podcast . Not sure that you've covered this topic yet . I'm curious how you feel about balls being aimed at people . I am a three five player . I am tall and I get a lot of overheads . More overheads often end up going towards my opponents . It's not exactly intentional , as I don't have a lot of control , but I'm also probably not trying to avoid them either . Is this bad etiquette ? Do I need to avoid hitting players , even if it will cost me a point ?

Carolyn 0:52

Oh , that's a great question , Erin . What did you say it is ?

Erin 0:55

very good . So I don't want to read my exact follow-up because I don't remember what it was exactly , but a couple of things about this . Remember what it was exactly , but a couple of things about this . I mean I know that that I responded saying it is absolutely legal and not bad etiquette to aim the ball at someone , especially in overhead , and hit it for a winner , right . But here's what I have figured out .

Erin 1:20

First of all , people do get really upset . Some people get upset and I feel like a couple of things . Number one don't you feel like it's kind of based on our level . So I feel like at the lower levels , people get upset . Someone was trying to hurt me , someone named the ball at my face . You know you get all kinds of that , right , people get really upset on the court .

Erin 1:38

I have found being moved up to 4-0 a couple of years ago when you and I were both moved up that it is more than often . Someone will apologize if they've hit a ball at me , or if I've hit a ball at someone , I'll apologize , and the other person most of the time says no , that was the right play . Yes , like , don't apologize for it , that was the right way to win the point basically . So I think a couple of things . Number one people do kind of put up their hand or some of us go , oh my gosh , I'm so sorry , I was aiming for the alley , but I don't have great aim , so I hit it right at you . Number one , right ? So I think if you hit at someone and you just kind of give them a hey , didn't wasn't trying to hurt you , trying to win the point , I think that's great etiquette .

Carolyn 2:20

Do you think so ? I agree I will say this that I really try not to hit at anyone and I kind of get a vibe for the match . So sometimes there's a part of me that when I am really trying to not aim anywhere near the person , and then if my partner gets hit , let's say then it's game on . Well then it's okay , I don't have to worry as much about not hitting them .

Erin 2:50

Gotcha , you know , or being you know , trying to feel out the room I'm trying to feel out the room .

Carolyn 2:55

Yeah , there is a part of me that does that a little bit . That's great etiquette actually . You know what kind of match is this going to be , and I've been hit a number of times and when I get hit twice and I know this may not be good from a strategy perspective or a winning perspective , but a lot of times after I get hit the second time , I back up .

Erin 3:16

Exactly Again , carolyn . I think that goes to speaking to the , you know , from the two fives and the three O's and maybe the low three fives and then from the three fives to the four fives and above . It is knowing that if you're getting hit , you're getting hit for a reason . Either A your partner is maybe throwing up a lot let's say you're the net person If a partner's throwing up a lob and it's coming back and you're getting killed once , twice , three times , four times , you have to change your strategy . I think it's really . I think there's different situations . I think if you are like this person that wrote us and you are not trying , you're not intentionally trying to hit someone , you're not trying to hurt someone , you're just you've learned that going at the player maybe closest to the net is the right move . That is perfectly acceptable in rec tennis , yes . So when I was taking lessons in clinics as a 2.5 , I actually wish that I had not learned from the pro that I took a lot of lessons from to hit at a player to get a point right . So in the early days you know we would be practicing doubles or whatever and they would say you know , if you get the ball , hit it towards the net player or hit it at the net player , literally . I remember him saying hit it at the net player and what that does is , you know , typically that person , because they're closest to the net , doesn't have as much time to react , and so you would win a lot of points that way as a 2-5 . Well , the higher levels I feel like they know that they're going to the ball is going to come to them because that's the smart play and so they're ready . They're ready for it now . So , like you think you're going to hit a winner and you hit someone at 3-5 and 4-0 or 4-5 . And they're like , yep , they just popped the ball back right . So I wish the language actually that I had learned because now it's sort of muscle memory and ingrained in my brain like hit at the hit at the player is . I wish they would have said hit between the players or hit where there's not a player on the court .

Erin 5:13

Because even when I was in Costa Rica , we worked a lot on defending against overheads and you know your first line of defense is move back .

Erin 5:23

But a lot of times you can't be back far enough where you're still not going to get hit at , but a lot of times the higher level players will hit at someone's feet or that's what they think of now Like if you hit the ball low , that's going to be the hardest ball to get .

Erin 5:36

And so what Karen Rembert taught us in Costa Rica which I thought was so smart , and we practice it and it works is if you know the ball is like an overhead is going to come at you back up till you , you know , don't , don't be moving while the ball is like coming towards you , because you're probably going to not mess it up , but get a really wide stance and put your racket down on the ground at an angle so that when that person hits at your feet , the ball is going to hit off your racket and usually pop over them almost like a lob for a winner in the back corner . And I can't tell you , carolyn , how many times that worked over and over and over again . But hitting at or towards a player at the high levels to me isn't as effective as it is at the low levels . But I will say , the people that get hit out at the low levels and lose a point are the ones that are always upset about it .

Carolyn 6:25

Yes , yes , where they say you hit me , why are you hitting at me ? Yeah , people do get upset , people get really upset over it .

Erin 6:34

And I do think there's a difference between trying to hit a winner , an overhead winner , even directly at a net person , even if you hit them in the stomach or the feet or the lower part of their body , is absolutely acceptable . What's not acceptable and I know a lot of people not that a lot of us have aim , but I do know that a lot of people complain about someone that I've heard a lot of people say she tried to hit at my face- oh yes .

Erin 7:01

That is not good etiquette . Hitting at a person is okay and I don't think it's considered good or bad etiquette , but trying to hit at someone's face is not the way to play tennis ever yes and you don't .

Carolyn 7:14

and you don't want to hit anyone , you don't want to hurt anyone . Yeah , no one's getting paid .

Erin 7:20

I think what you said at the beginning , which was , if you've been hit several times , the strategy is don't get up , don't get mad . Have a different strategy Back up or make sure your partner doesn't hit a lob , or hit the ball somewhere differently , I don't know . But yeah , if you continue to get hit , I don't think you can continue to get upset . I think at that point you need to make a change on the court .

Carolyn 7:43

I back up really quickly and the times that I've been scared on the court where you know I'm like I really don't want to get hurt .

Erin 7:53

Hurt has been a mixed yeah , I was different with men .

Carolyn 7:57

Yeah , and to me it was even mixed at lower levels and I felt like it was because at higher levels the men seemed almost more in control , and then at lower levels , I don't think the man was like trying to come right at my face , but he was just , you know going as hard as he could .

Carolyn 8:19

Yeah , he had a short ball . He was going as hard as he could to rip it and it went right at my face and I was able to get the racket up and then I immediately backed up and I never again am I going to be near the net with that person .

Erin 8:33

So yeah , Well , and the other thing too . I just thought about this , but you have a really good attitude about getting hit at . I don't know if you even know this or I know you remember this . I know you'll remember the story when I say it , but Carolyn and I were playing a playoff match together for our team to make it to States and we were playing against these two women who were very serious about the match . We were all very serious about the match . It was . This was to go on the state tournament .

Erin 8:59

This is for the state tournament , where we were going to get a towel , you get a medal if you win .

Erin 9:03

Yes , medal , that's true . But if we won our local league , we were going to get a towel or a shot glass or a bag tag . I mean we were going for it . Right , it's for everything . Yeah , we were going for it .

Erin 9:17

So Carolyn and I were playing together and I remember , like I said , our parent opponents were very like just businesslike , right , there was no niceties , there was no you know , giggling , talking about children . There was nothing . We were there to play tennis , win a match

Sportsmanship in Competitive Tennis

Erin 9:34

and move on to States . And Carolyn I don't know how , but somehow Carolyn got hit . I probably threw up a bad lob or sent it right to the net player and the net player hit Carolyn Kind of think it was like stomach area ish . I think you probably got your racket just because you have such quick reflexes . And I remember her kind of putting her hand up , saying you know , apologizing , like I didn't mean to hit you , like at your chest or you know whatever . And you said do you remember this ? You said to her no , no , do it hit me again . That was smart , or you know some something to like ease the tension .

Carolyn 10:08

Oh , yes , I remember that . Like that's a great shot .

Erin 10:11

It was great shot , do it again . I remember you specifically saying like do it again . That was smart or so you know something like that that cut the tension of that court to the point where after the match was over and you and I lost I don't know if you remember that about it they were so nice to us , like it was like you got immediate respect from that person because you weren't like I can't believe you didn't , I can't believe you'd hit me at the net . You didn't cause an argument . You didn't say that's bad etiquette , you know you shouldn't hit me . You said that's smart . And she immediately and I remember saying to her out to that woman after and I did not know her well at the time I said don't you steal Carolyn , try to get her on a team of yours . But she immediately respected you because you didn't like complain about it . You were like that was the right move and they won the point and they won the match .

Carolyn 10:59

Yeah , because it is hard , because you do hear , especially if you're super aggressive at the net and you do hit someone , people do get upset . They get really upset and it is part of the game and I don't think anybody is like trying to hurt anyone out there .

Erin 11:15

I think there's some you know some out there , but there's always you know , there's always people on the fringe , right . What do you think like if Mike were on this right now ? If Mike were on the podcast right now , what , what ? What do you think it looks like ? Have you watched enough of his men's matches ? Cause my husband doesn't play , so have you watched enough of his ? Do they hit each other ? I think they do that and they just move on .

Carolyn 11:38

Yeah , I think they hit each other all the time and there's very much , you know , if I don't want to get hit , I move back . If I get hit a couple times , I'm not going to , you know , do that . But they get hit a lot and there's no , you know , animosity .

Erin 11:50

And then they have a beer after .

Carolyn 11:52

Yeah , yeah , I think it's a little bit different . But I will tell you , with mixed , I think mixed is a little mixed , is strange , and we're gonna have another episode on mixed soon . Yes , alert , alert , we're doing a mixed episode . Yes , because of the new mixed rule . So we'll definitely have a lot of comments about that . But I know when Mike's playing mixed he'll get hit . You know the woman will hit the ball and the man may hit it right like nail him at it , you know , and he's like what are we doing here ?

Erin 12:23

You know he tries , especially in mixed , not to hit anyone , not to you know , do that His partner , his woman partner , will hit a ball , hit it to the man and the man will basically like it's a weak shot , and so Mike pays the cost because the guy will take the opponent guy will take the ball and hit it right at Mike for a winner .

Carolyn 12:44

Yeah . So like the 3 oh woman hits the ball Right . And if Mike were playing seven oh mix , and then the the guy nails Mike with the ball . So I do think there's a little bit of like what are you doing , you know , with that ? Mike's , like you're not reading the room , you're not reading the room , like he could do that too on a seven0 court , but so I don't know , it's just hard .

Erin 13:09

But that's a good point . So you're talking about the difference between 7-0 and like 10-0 . I guarantee those people hit each other all the time . So it's a difference between like 2-5 to 4-5 . Yes , every level that you go up , it's more and more acceptable to hit .

Carolyn 13:30

Yes , I think so . I think that's exactly right , aaron , that I think the higher you go , the more it's acceptable . Or they'll back up , or there's not . The you know like , what are you doing ?

Erin 13:35

It's more of okay this is like what I'm doing is I'm winning the point by hitting you .

Carolyn 13:41

Please let us know what you think . Are you more like that jerk , just hit me ? Or it's okay if you hit me as long as you don't hit it in my face ? Or do you think it changes based on level or what you're playing , such as mixed , or is it just part of the game ? You can message us on our website , which is SecondServePodcastcom . Thanks so much for listening and hope to see you on the court soon . Outro Music .