Understanding Short Sets in Tennis

Carolyn

Hi , this is Carolyn , and I'm here with Erin and we're really excited to have Tom and Dave back with us again . They were with us previously and did one of the most popular episodes we've done on how to choose a tennis partner . So if you haven't listened to that one , please go back and listen . But tonight they're laughing and hugging each other right now . Tonight we're going to talk about short sets or pro sets or playing them at states . You know , the thing I love about adult tennis is that you play outside , but the thing I just dislike about adult tennis as well is that you play outside when the weather's bad . Like about adult tennis as well , is that you play outside when the weather's bad , and Erin and I , before this podcast started , started asking each other what is a short set , what is a pro set ? We've played them before , but we couldn't like . We both thought they were different things . Can you guys talk a little bit about what a short set or pro set is , or what you played at States ?

Erin

Yeah , what you did at States , because we had about 50 texts go back and forth about what we thought was the correct answer and we found out there's multiple answers . So tell us what you guys did .

Tom

So for us and it's and a lot of it depends on States and what the weather's going to be like right . Uh , for us it was pretty clear the weather was going to be bad all weekend . Uh , you get some in on Friday . Saturday looked like an almost washout . Sunday didn't look any better . So they decided they were going to do the shortest thing possible , which is the short set , which is you play two sets and the first of four wins .

Erin

First of four by two Okay .

Tom

But at four all you do go into a , uh , into a tie break . So you go to a just standard seven point tie break for a set tie breaker . But it's fast . Yeah , um , you know , you get , you do an eight game pro set . It's a little . It's a lot different . Right , it's , it's a little . That's a little closer to a regular match than a , than a true short set , with only , you know , the first of four .

Dave

It's , it's A lot of times I don't know how you start , but sometimes I feel like it takes one or two points to actually get the rhythm going , especially if you're in the tension and the pressure heavy pressure of a tournament . Yeah , recreational tournament , but you still feel this . You get going , you , I remember being ready to switch sides and move on and they go no , it's next set . I was like what ? Wow ?

Tom

but you know , and it's you know . I'm sure everybody's lost count of the score during a long point . Right , and you get done , you go . I don't even remember what the score is . Same thing happens in the short set . I did the same thing , we had won , and I walk back . I'm getting ready to serve and my partner looks at me and goes oh it's over , we won . Oh wow , if you're not paying attention , it goes fast .

Erin

So you do two of those short sets . But here's my question Do you , if you do two of those sets , do you do the same switches , like , do you switch at game one and game three ? Yeah , so you could potentially just switch . I mean you could switch once , I suppose . No , you'd still switch at one and three , and then it's over , it could be over , and then it's over . I take four games just to warm up . Not points , but games .

Tom

And I mean the amazing thing about that is only switching twice . You're doing this because the weather's bad , right , so if one side's worse than the other and you're going to pick , you know you flip the coin . Do you want to servers ? That question gets a little interesting now because picking the side could really make a big difference at that point , because we had some where the wind was just coming from the one side and you couldn't hit a ball out , no matter how hard you tried after that one side that actually happened so .

Dave

So I had a guy , um , lobbed the ball , so I think we both rushed to the net and he lobs the ball over us and it's like , oh , that one is gone now . This is a windy weather , uh , very gusty , and so we relaxed , turned around , go get the ball .

Erin

It landed on the line , but it was so far gone , but it went above the windscreen of the chain-link fence and changed direction , got caught in the Gulf Stream . It literally had its own weather pattern . Yes , wow , so that's another interesting thing . In that situation , lobs probably can really work in your favor or to your . You know , obviously , if your opponents do it to you to a disadvantage .

Tom

This actually happened to be a 6-5 combo , which meant he and I were not partners .

Dave

Right .

Tom

So we were playing with other people and I played with a partner I had never played with before and he had seen me play in the past . And apparently this guy loves to lob and he wants his partner to run to the net all the time . Right , and he had seen me play . So tom likes going to net . I want him as my partner and we'll go ahead and play . And first day it wasn't so bad . Um , the second day , his lobs . Would you know he ? He'd hit him , they'd lob , and then they would just stop right at the net on a string for the guy to just nail it back .

Tom

Or he hit one and I thought , oh , that's a perfect lob and it ends up six feet out to the other side . But his game was the lob game and it really the weather impacted him a lot more than it would impact him .

Carolyn

Right , did you guys win your short sets ?

Tom

I won some yes .

Carolyn

How many did you play ? Did you play just one or did you have to play it throughout the weekend ?

Dave

There was five matches planned for the weekend and the weather was terrible forecast for Saturday and Sunday , so Friday we played four matches , okay .

Erin

And normally you would play like one or two . Yeah , oh , good , okay so you play four matches in one day One day . But , they were short sets , Carolyn .

Carolyn

Still , that's a , I mean .

Erin

Yeah right . She's stressed already .

Tom

And old man tennis ? No , that's even worse .

Carolyn

Did you guys get injured ? I would be injured by the end of it , even if it is short set .

Dave

At least we didn't have the hot weather . I mean , what was difficult is this has been the warmest fall we've had . I mean , every weekend was gorgeous and all of a sudden , the weekend of the tournament , it became 40 degrees and moist and rainy and just miserable , horribly cold . And so two things One is you've got to adjust and be ready for anything that happens in a tournament .

Dave

The other thing is , when it comes to the scoring on these short sets , there's a little tweak to it because , guess what , all software , tennislink , usta , everything is based on a six-point match . You can't put in a score that says 4-2 . So they provide a conversion chart and they only kept it at the tournament coordinator's table . So it became very difficult because you got , like you said , so much going on , so much stuff to remember . But if you had a match that or a set that you won for two , if you got four points , the rule was you added two points to that , so that could become six . But if you got two points , the rule was you added two points to that , so that could become six . But if you got two points , if you're losing , you only got one point added to your score , so that becomes 6-3 in tennis length .

Tom

And then how they calculate tiebreakers and everything else . So I think that's the other part about being flexible is you know ? It's really important . The captain has to understand the rules , but every court needs to understand the rules because the tiebreakers and we lost this state in a third , the third tiebreaker , we lost the state championship in a third tiebreaker . So understand what they are and what you got to do , because we could have , like you said before about hunker down , and if we would have taken one more set along the way , one more game along the way , it would have been different wow , it came down to that .

Carolyn

It was that close , huh was it around , robin , so that it you didn't go down ?

Dave

everybody once , right , no semifinals . Yeah , there's a total of six teams , five matches and , um , it was interesting what happens on the scoring , because if you have a set where you won 4-1 , 4-2 , instead of being two or three points added to more than the other team got added , you actually got three or four points more than the other team got added . So , because of that conversion , now does that mean if we we want all straight sets , if we had won all five matches , it doesn't matter . But what happens is when so two teams had won four and lost one . And so you go into those tiebreakers , you look on the other columns down the row and all the way down on the far right , um , total games won , which is not games one , it's actually the points one .

Dave

You know you get six for every point , every match you win , or whatever every set , um you know they pulled out ahead , you know so that they earned it and they got it , and we all agree by the scoring and that's how it goes , but it does , is it the dynamics ? That's all I really want to say , and just be prepared for that .

Erin

Yeah .

Dave

It changes .

Weather Impact on Tennis Matches

Erin

Yeah , that stings , though , when it comes down to it it came down to a conversion and , like you said , you could have won one extra game or one . But you don't know that when you're just playing and you're you're trying , you know you're just trying to win the match you know you're just trying to win the match .

Dave

Honestly , I think it'd be more fair if they go to short sets to have the software adapted so that it could just be squarely you know I have a question would you guys have won if there had not been the conversion ?

Carolyn

like , if it really was for two , like , did you add up all your games and compare it to their see if it was not converted ?

Dave

I thought about going into all the detail of looking at every match , that every we play , that's what 15 , we played five matches time , so 15 . And calculating , recalculating all that and especially , I actually thought about that and I said you know what ?

Erin

It still stings . It might just sting worse , if you really know .

Dave

But I will say this there definitely is a potential that it could change that tiebreaker outcome . Yes , and if it did change the tiebreaker outcome , it's still because they won by the opponent won by a greater amount than you did . It's just the variation is amplified . The variation is amplified and you know you could analyze this to death , but it does make a difference .

Tom

And how many games you get right , because it's basically multiplied by 1.5 . So you're converting four to six . You multiply it by 1.5 . So if you get zero , if you get beat 4-0 , zero times 1.5 , you still get zero . But if you get one , it's now 1.5 , which makes it two 1.5 , you still get zero , but if you get one , it's now 1.5 , which makes it two . So it's , it's interesting to go . Well , I got a little more if I only got one than that . You know the ratio goes . But it's uh , we didn't go back and check , I we did .

Tom

I don't think , I don't know , I don't go back and check the uh , the rankings of the people who beat me either , Cause I just don't want to know .

Carolyn

I think , know , I think I would I probably would .

Dave

I should say , because tom is smart , carolyn and I yeah , carolyn , and I would obsess about it and call each other 50 times and I think we won yeah right right but you have to watch what you allow to get into your head because , yes , it can drive you nuts , yeah , and you know we're talking about the short set , but but just weather in general at States can be a big impact .

Tom

We played our spring States for 3-0 . And Dave and I were playing and the weather actually seemed pretty good . It was good and we were winning pretty handily and won the first set pretty well . We were up in the second set and the skies opened up .

Dave

Wow , Just I mean not just a light rain , this was like cats and dogs all over the place .

Tom

So we're waiting around , we're thinking well , this is over . There were clay courts . There was no way that they were going to be good to go . But they also had indoor courts and , depending on the tournament , they may or may not do the indoor , Because a lot of times they have to pay the extra money to get the indoor courts . But they did so . Our match moved inside after about an hour .

Dave

Yes , I mean there was a whole big delay and some guys left and some you know it was like , oh , we don't know . Well , you can't leave because they haven't called it . We don't know , but you can tell the courts were not going to dry out today . But , sure enough , about an hour later they said , yeah , they opened up the indoor courts and all of a sudden we're playing and you go from playing on an outside sunny day to a dark , neon or LED light indoor court and you only have a quarter of the game left or the match left we lost .

Erin

It didn't end well yeah yeah , I had a friend years ago at States and same thing . We started outside on hard courts , we got moved indoors about an hour away , luckily towards home . So those of us that were leaving after the match were able at least an hour towards home and a friend of ours had to go and play two points . She had to wait around , I know , and that was not necessarily a deciding match , but it was like you don't want to retire a state's match but you also don't want to drive an hour to indoor courts to play a couple extra points . Even if those two went her way , you know it wasn't , it wasn't going to end well but not two games .

Carolyn

Not two games , two points .

Erin

They ended in like yeah , yeah , it wasn't even two games , it was well , Tom , you had that this spring in just a regular USTA match Got rained out in a tiebreaker .

Tom

Good thing we're playing them again the next week . So we just said well , we'll just show up early .

Erin

That's a smart way to do it .

Tom

That didn't end well either , so we'll pick another topic , because this isn't really working .

Erin

We have figured out the title to our episode . It's not going to end well , it's not going to end well .

Carolyn

Thanks very much to Dave and Tom for speaking with us . We have a part two of this episode discussing more about weather and short sets . If you'd like to see a picture of Dave and Tom , please check out our website , which is SecondServePodcastcom . You can also check out previous episodes and we've even included a resources section that has the websites we go to to check for ratings and the rules . Thanks so much for listening and hope to see you on the court soon . Outro .

Tom

Music .