Second Serve Tennis

Navigating Tricky Tennis Rules

• Second Serve with Carolyn Roach & Erin Conigliaro • Episode 274

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What should you do if your opponent yells watch out when you are hitting an overhead? What happens if your opponent's shoe falls off during a point? What if your dampener flies off? What if the dampener hits the net? Carolyn and Erin discuss these rules and more!

Thank you to Leah for all these great questions! 

We are replaying a few of our most popular episodes and this was one of them.

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Carolyn:

Hi, this is Carolyn, and I'm here with Erin and we recently did some rules episodes and we got a lot of comments and questions back, didn't we, aaron?

Erin:

Yes, we did Lots and lots of emails and questions from people.

Carolyn:

And so we thought we'd go through a few that we received and just kind of talk through. You know what we would do and maybe what the rule says. So, erin, do you want to start us off with a few that you received on social media?

Erin:

Yeah, I received a few from Leah. She messages me when she plays a match and then has a question, which I love. So here are some that she sent that we thought were super interesting. So this, the first one, has to do with hitting an overhead. She said random rules question. I can't even count the amount of times that I've set up for an overhead to hear an opponent yell look out before I hit it. I guess they're warning their partner, but what's the call on that? If I stop the, do I stop the point and play it over? I always tense up because now I know that I need to watch the ball for my overhead and also see where the net person is, and there just is a lot going on in the court. So I think this one is pretty cut and dry, isn't it Carolyn? Or maybe I shouldn't say that None of the rules are really cut and dry?

Carolyn:

Well, I think there's the rule. And then what people normally do. What did you tell her Erin? What did you say? Oh gosh, that's a good question, or do you?

Erin:

remember I should have looked at my well, because I think I know the rule and I get confused when hindrances come in. But the rule is you are not supposed to yell out when the ball is traveling away from you, right? So if I've hit a lob, the ball is now moving from my side of the court to someone else's side of the court and I'm not supposed to say look out or you know, watch out or move or run. You know any of that, but it is so natural. If I were to guess, I would say a very, very, very, very high percentage of rec players say something.

Carolyn:

Yes.

Erin:

If they know they're going to get their partner at the net killed, right, yeah, but what's the actual rule? Do you know?

Carolyn:

Okay. So I looked up the rule and it is talking when ball is in play. And this is what it says Singles players should not talk during points. Okay, talking between doubles partners when the ball is moving toward them is allowed Toward them, toward them. Okay. Doubles players should not talk when the ball is moving toward their opponent's court. Okay, just exactly what you said, aaron. And then it says any talking that interferes with an opponent's ability to play a ball is a hindrance. Now what's interesting is in front of court they say, for example, if a doubles player hits a weak lob and yells, get back and the yell distracts an opponent who is about to hit the ball, then the opponent may claim the point based on a deliberate hindrance. If the opponent chooses to play the lob and misses it, the opponent loses the point because the opponent did not make a timely claim of hindrance. So this is what happens.

Erin:

That's what happens. Yes, so that's even more interesting when you think about it, carolyn, because if I hit a weak lob and I yell out, carolyn, move back, watch out and it messes them up. Here's what's going to happen. Here's, 99.9% of the time, this is what's going to happen. Our opponents are going to hit it straight into the net and then they're going to be mad at us and they're going to say you hindered me by yelling out and you can't do that. The problem is they actually have to stop play before they literally have to catch the ball or let it bounce and just say you hindered me. I'm taking that point.

Carolyn:

Yes, and no one does that. Super awkward, that's super awkward.

Erin:

Have you ever been in a match where someone does that, where they say I haven't either, but almost every single day that I'm on the court, somebody throws up a weak lob and somebody says, watch out.

Carolyn:

Yes, and then somebody gets mad afterwards, and a lot of times what they say is we need to replay the point, which isn't the rule, but that's what they say a lot of times.

Erin:

So follow-up question to that. Then, Carolyn, Speaking of replaying points, when is the only time that you replay a point? Is if it's a let correct Versus taking the point? Yes? No, I'm just saying replaying a point in general.

Carolyn:

Okay, so in general. So what Rebel Good told us is a let is how you should think about it. I remember him saying this and I hope he's listening so that he can correct me.

Erin:

Because he will email and say ladies, this is how I don't understand why you don't understand what are you talking about Carolyn?

Carolyn:

But I think you have to think is I've been hindered on making a play on the ball. And then you say was it intentional, Was it unintentional? Oh gosh, and if it was intentional, you take the point, and if it was unintentional, you replay the point. Okay so you have to think. It's hard. This is the part I do not enjoy, because Well, and the other?

Erin:

thing. You have to think quick, right? So you have to decide. Am I mad about it? And like there's a lot going on and you have to figure out? Yeah, if it was intentional or unintentional.

Carolyn:

But I would like to hear if anybody's actually done that when someone's getting ready to hit an overhead Because people do it all the time where they say watch out or weak shot.

Erin:

I feel like we almost need to do training on that. Yes, literally Like from now on in your matches, the next time someone throws up a lob and someone yells out, watch out, back up, whatever they say, catch the ball and just get used to doing that. But then you are going to be the jerk that enforces the rule. Yes, Just so you know that's what will happen.

Carolyn:

It's going to be an argument if you then say, catch the ball and say my point.

Erin:

My point, move on. Leah has some other good ones about taking the point, which I'll get into. But the next one she said is during a match on a different court, we saw someone's shoe come off and she really stuck with that point until it was over. Then she got her shoe back on. People in my court were like what the heck? But I just learned from your podcast that that is not a let and that you keep going. That's correct. That's correct. So if a shoe comes off, a racket flies out of your hand, you fall. It's all part of the game you play through.

Carolyn:

Yes, okay. So in friend, at court it says a player's racket coming out of the hand or a shoe coming off is not the basis for either player claiming a let. So no one can call it. You can't call it and you can't really hinder yourself, so you couldn't call that anyway. But the opponents can't call it. But it says something else and I want us to kind of go over this. We may need to do an additional episode on this. But it says a let is never authorized for a hindrance caused by something within a player's control, such as when a player's control, such as when a player's racket comes out of hand, when a player's shoe comes off or when a player trips over the player's own hat. I was going to say hat, but then it says however, if a player's hat falls off during a point, an opponent may immediately call a let due to an unintentional hindrance. To me this does not make sense.

Erin:

No, that's super gray.

Carolyn:

Yeah, it's like okay, my shoe comes off, the opponent can't call anything. But if my hat comes off, an opponent can, and I just don't understand it. We need to ask Rebel about that Rebel.

Erin:

Wood. Yeah, that's just incorrect in my book. It just doesn't make sense. There's still pieces of equipment. It's like I always worry about, like you know, those little racket dampeners yes, no-transcript across the net and hit one of the other players or got in their way or they like. Is that a let?

Carolyn:

Was I hindered and making a play on the ball?

Erin:

I wasn't doing it, it wasn't intentional, so it must be a let.

Carolyn:

Well, it depends on whether they're making a play on the ball Number one. I also think you know if it would hit the net, then they would lose the point. Right, because if you or anything you touch hits the net, you lose the point.

Erin:

Oh gosh.

Carolyn:

But that is an interesting question. But you see how this can be really confusing. So you're saying if I can't, you think tennis is simple and a simple game with simple rules, and then all of a sudden these weird situations happen and there's no official for us and you don't know what to do not only is it not simple in the rules and in like just from the rule standpoint, it's also not as simple as just having a racket with a ball and trying to get it over the net.

Erin:

There's a million ways to do that. Yeah, spin flat strategy. Yeah, it's very much not a simple game, like when I started and thought it was going to be.

Carolyn:

I know and you have to remember the score.

Erin:

So on top of all that. So okay, one more, super quick back to that. So you're saying if I hit let's say I hit a forehand or a backhand, my little dampener flies through the air, hits the net. I would lose the point, I believe part of my equipment. Touch the net. That's the net before the ball was dead. Interesting. Again let me double check.

Carolyn:

I think we need to double check the rules and double check with Rebel Goat on that. But that's what I would say like part of your equipment touch the net while the ball was in play. You lost a point. But I think again, that would go over real well with the people that that happens to. Yeah.

Erin:

The opponents really agree to that one, right? I would love this next one. This is kind of just a statement, but I just thought it was very funny and I wanted to read it. And it came from leah. She just said I had someone tell me that she can say anything she wants while I'm getting ready to kill, basically, a lob, and she told me that I was wrong. And she told me that my our expert guest was wrong. I am positive, especially after listening to your podcast, that she is in the wrong. I just thought that was funny. So this lady is arguing with Leah, telling her that our expert guest was incorrect.

Carolyn:

Yeah. So basically I think she's saying that Rubble Good, who does the Court? Of Appeals column for Tennis Magazine and the Stomp, the Ump column for Western Wake Tennis Association.

Erin:

The guy that has officiated at the US Open. Yes, that guy's wrong.

Carolyn:

Yes, yeah, and so she's saying that her opinion.

Erin:

She can say anything she wants.

Carolyn:

I can say anything I want, anytime I want yes, yes. And see, that's what's hard about playing adult tennis.

Erin:

Because she's going to stick to that, even though she'll never read the rules. She is going to stick to that and she's going to tell other people the same thing that she knows the rules and that she can say anything she wants at any time.

Carolyn:

And then it becomes that weird. Do you argue this or not? Like right, what do you do from a practical standpoint when you're out there and you can?

Erin:

just walk away.

Carolyn:

There's, there's, no there's no getting through to people like that. Or do you say whatever you want and keep going? I don't know. Maybe that would be fun.

Erin:

Maybe you go to a dark place, like Carolyn does sometimes, and just say whatever you want.

Carolyn:

That's good, yeah, okay For the dampener question. I looked it up in Friend at Court and Rule 24G states the point is lost if the player or the racket, whether in the player's hand or not, or anything which the player is wearing or carrying, touches the net or the opponent's court at any time while the ball is in play. So, aaron's dampener, if it flies off and flies into the net, she would lose the point. Or if it flies off and touches the opponent's court or, I guess, the opponent she would lose the point. However, I did confirm with Rebel Good that if Erin Stamper comes off and lands in her court then her opponent can call let.

Carolyn:

Also, after listening to the episodes with Rebel Good one more time, I think I'm starting to understand the main situations where no one can call let for something that happens on your court, and those situations are when a racket comes out of your hand, your shoe falls off or someone falls, and in all three of those situations that person is at a disadvantage. So no one on the court can call let. The opponent still needs to finish the point, but if someone's racket's out of their hand it would be very difficult for them to play. But please let me know if I'm thinking about this incorrectly. Especially Rebel, if you're listening, we hope you check out our website, which is SecondServePodcastcom. Thanks so much for listening and hope to see you on the court soon.