Second Serve Tennis

Advice for Combo or Playing Across Levels - Part 2 (Try Smiling!)

• Second Serve with Carolyn Roach & Erin Conigliaro • Episode 280

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What do you do if your opponents are only hitting to the lower rated player? What are some tactics for playing against higher level players? Francie Barragan is here to give advice for playing combo or across different levels!

We are replaying a few of our most popular episodes and this was one of them!

Francie played college tennis for NC State and was the Assistant Coach for NC State after graduating. She was the Head Coach at Methodist University, the Director of Professional Tennis Management at Methodist University, the Director of Tennis at MacGregor Downs Country Club, and is a PTR & USPTA certified pro. She is currently the USTA Southern Manager of Coach Development and Training and the Tennis Service Representative for North Carolina.

She was inducted into Methodist University Athletics Hall of Fame, the Fayetteville, NC Sports Club Hall of Fame, named PTR Pro of year for NC, and received the USTA NC Lifetime Achievement award. 

Tennis is booming and needs more coaches! If you would like to learn to coach you can contact Francie at Barragan@sta.usta.com. 

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Speaker 1:

Hi, this is Carolyn and I'm here with Aaron, and this is part two of our conversation with Francie Berrigan. Francie played college tennis for NC State. She was the head coach at Methodist University and also was the director of tennis at the McGregor Downs Country Club in Cary, north Carolina. She is currently the USTA Southern Manager of Coach Development and Training and the Tennis Service Representative for North Carolina. If you want to learn some tactics for playing against players that hit with less pace, please check out part one, but here is part two.

Speaker 2:

OK, so the opposite of that question is what are some tactics for playing against higher level players? Sometimes I feel like I'm just out of my league, you know. Like you know, sometimes I'm like I'm out skilled, I'm out played. I'm they've just have more, more experience than me. So maybe give some ideas about playing higher rated players.

Speaker 3:

Good question. So of course, in any match whether it's the same skill level lower rated, higher rated we want to start out using our strengths, seeing if we can just win with our strengths, and ideally we would be able to win every match with our strengths. But that doesn't always happen. So if it's a higher rated player and they're just out rallying you that day, you know you're not going to be able to beat them just with your game plan. I'm going to flip that question and get the two of you thinking what if you have ever lost to someone that maybe is a lower rated player? What did they do to you?

Speaker 2:

Consistency.

Speaker 1:

Consistency? Yes, they are consistent. They just got it back.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, every ball back.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, that's actually true.

Speaker 3:

That is true. So one of two things either that where you take them out of their rhythm and maybe you throw in I know we said we like to hit the ball hard, but maybe we throw in a couple of lobs over the net player's head, Maybe it's slice, whatever we can do so that they're not in the rhythm that they like. And if that's not working, then another option is if we are that aggressive minded player that likes to hit it hard, rather than trying to overpower them and hitting 10 straight powerful forehands, maybe we hit one or two powerful forehands and we get into the net and then we force them to come up with the goods. The pressure's on them to hit the winner, to hit the law, but whatever it might be. But suddenly, if they know they can outrally you, they're gonna be very comfortable just staying back there and doing that rally.

Speaker 2:

I played a woman this week Carolyn, you've played her the way way she had like an amazing slice hard at my feet return, and so we were losing a lot of points. That's why we lost the first. In the second I finally figured out if I gave her kind of like a much like lobby or serve and I hate to say that because you know I can hit a hard serve but when I just kind of like got it in the box and with a lot more spin on it, not like I don't have a kick serve, so let let's. I won't call it that, but I know what, I know what a kick serve is. I don't have it, but I do have like a.

Speaker 2:

You know, I could kind of lob it in there or it would still come back with slice, but it would come back high into my strike zone and I was like, oh, and of course we lost the second five, seven. But I'm like if we had figured that out in the first, that might've made all the difference in the world. But it was like we were just trying to throw the kitchen sink at them, like everything was working for them. Nothing was kind of working for us. So you know, but that was one of the tactics that I used. I'm like okay, I have to change my serve because her return was just killing it every time and getting points off that.

Speaker 3:

So that's smart. I wish I could put it all together earlier. Exactly Well, what I asked you earlier if you'd ever lost to a lower rated player. It sounded like they did that exact same thing Take the pace off. Consistency probably gave you an off pace serve out of your strike zone. So really, when you're playing against that better player you know, take yourself back to what makes you uncomfortable when you're playing against players that you should beat.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I remember I won. I will never forget the singles match. There was a lot of factors. The woman had her child out there he was. Do you remember this story, carolyn? He was um heckling me.

Speaker 1:

Yes, I do remember that story. Yeah, but I but I want.

Speaker 2:

And it was a super frustrating match, not just because her child was heckling me the whole night, it was just frustrating but I literally remember. I will never forget that match because I won in match tie break against her the very last serve. I literally and this is not a knock against any two five, cause there's a lot of two fives that have good serves but I as a three five or four at the time I two five served her the softest serve I could do, but still get in the box and she slammed it into the net and I was like, yes, serve I could do, but still get in the box and she slammed it into the net and I was like, yes, I actually had a college teammate at NC state that did that some, and you know, and when she won the point she'd get excited and pump her fist.

Speaker 3:

And that made the opponents even more upset. I mean, they wanted to throw their racket because here they are playing in the ACC and this uh, my teammate was just throwing in a lob serve.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah. Well, they say winning ugly it works yeah.

Speaker 3:

That drove them crazy.

Speaker 1:

Okay, and I know you said you get this question a lot too, and it's when I play a lower-rated player, our opponents never hit the ball to me. What do I do in this case? And I have a story. After you tell the answer to this.

Speaker 3:

Well, I know everybody. Usually it crosses their mind to say, well, you go, stand in the alley or maybe even sit on the bench and I'll take over. But that's not what we want to do. We're here to make some friends. So really, if they're not hitting the ball to you, let's take it at a few different angles. If you're the player at the net and your partner's at the baseline I think Carolyn said you were a basketball player growing up I like to relate it to basketball. In basketball you have assists and I like to think of it as I'm trying to assist my partner. I might not get to hit the ball, but I'm going to try to help her win that point. And by doing that I'm faking, I'm poaching, I'm closing into the net, I am just moving all the time, so my opponents have no clue where I'm going to be.

Speaker 3:

And ultimately, if they're trying to play, keep away from me if they don't know where I'm going to be. That adds some stress to their life and some uncertainty. So I might not always poach and get the ball, but as long as I'm moving, then they know they have to go for a little more and I'm getting that assist. If I'm the baseliner and my partner's at the net, the temptation for the lower rated player is to start scooting back a little bit. There's a fast paced ball coming out back off the net when actually in actuality that makes it easier for them to dip it at your feet and a harder volley for you.

Speaker 3:

And if you're the lower rated player. The last thing you want to do is have to hit a harder volley against a better player. So I'll try to get my partner to scoot in a little tighter on the net as long as I'm ready to run down the globs potentially, and then they get the easier volley. You know most people don't want to hit it to a net player if you know the net player is going to get a high volley. So if my partner scoots in, they're getting the high volley Suddenly. You know no one wants to give someone a high volley. So I start getting a few more ground strokes until they start lobbing over my partner.

Speaker 2:

Then we have to figure that out, but at least it works for a little while.

Speaker 3:

And then one other solution a lot of teams have is well, let's go both back, which sometimes we need to do if they're lobbying, but then that makes it easier for them to keep away from the better player. So what I'm doing in that scenario is I'm going to tell my partner okay, you know, if you're getting every ground stroke, let's look to step into it and get into the net and we'll move forward, either together or maybe I. Once again, I'm just looking for opportunities to put my partner up there in that winning position where they can build their confidence and get some of those easier volleys and I'll take care of everything that might go over her head or, or, you know, to the baseline where I can keep us in the point. I see a lot of teams let's just stay back and you know, really, if you can get your partner up there closer to the net to hit some winners, that's going to build their confidence and then that can turn the momentum of the match.

Speaker 1:

That's great advice. So I was at the 6-5 state tournament and I was the lower rated player, so I was the 3-0 and we lost a match and it was an important match. And afterwards the 3-5 told me like five times they just she just didn't know what to do Because all they did was hit the ball to me. They weren't hitting it to her, they were only hitting it to me. And so I wish, you know, I wish during the match we could have figured some of that out, because at the end for her to say that I'm like, okay, I get it, I was the worst one on the court.

Speaker 2:

I'm the reason we lost.

Speaker 3:

That's how I translated it as well, well, yeah, and we all know, because we've all been in that situation where you're the one getting picked on. You know you're getting picked on. So if your partner can say, hey, you know, close in and take some risks, I got you. If they hit it over your head, then yes, you're putting yourself in an easier position to win the point. And then then yes, you're, you're putting yourself in an easier position to win the point. And if your partner can help you out by moving a little bit, then that takes some pressure off too.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, if she would have poached a little bit, maybe she was right, I was, I was the worst one.

Speaker 2:

I actually had a funny story I played I think it was seven, five years ago, and I was playing with a woman who I was three five, she was a four but she was getting ready to get bumped to four five. I mean, she was well above everybody on the court, she was well above our skill level, right, and she did the and I'm sure, francie, you've probably heard this from other players she goes, she gets frustrated, she hits the ball out. You know, somebody gave her no pace or whatever it was Right. And she looks at me and sighs and says I just cannot play at this level. And I looked at her and I said I am your handicap, you have to play at this level because I am not this good to be on this court.

Speaker 2:

Like I was a. I might've even been a three oh plane as a three five and she was like we might've been a on a seven five court but I may not have even been a 3-5. I might have been playing up and I literally said you better stick in this because you're the higher-ranked player. Like it's up to you.

Speaker 3:

There's not a lot I can do here.

Speaker 2:

But I just remember, like exactly what court I was on, what club I was at and telling her straight up get your act together, because you're going to be the reason why we win or lose. You know you got to make it happen and then she quit tennis. After that she got bumped to four or five. Well, she didn't have anyone to play with, so she literally did quit right after that. Not after that match, but after that season Okay.

Speaker 2:

I know now she would have plenty. This was years ago but I just remember kind of not yelling at her but basically telling her, giving her a pep talk that she better get it together.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, that's probably an example is what you don't want your better player to do. It is a better player. Their job is to build the confidence of their partner, exactly.

Speaker 1:

So, francie, what is the best advice you've ever received?

Speaker 3:

Well, I'd say I have to give my parents credit, Although when I was a teenager I might have rolled my eyes a few times with their advice. But whether I'd get nervous for a big junior match, or maybe I faced a cheater and I was just frustrated at the end of the match that I had gotten some bad line calls, they always would tell me when you get to be our age, meaning adult age I wouldn't remember necessarily the results or the scores, but I'd remember the friends I'd made and the experiences that I'd had with those friends. So they were always able to keep it in perspective and I feel like now those commercials where you're becoming your parents. So when I'm coaching and I hear people complaining about their captains she put me with the worst player on the team for three straight matches. I just want to give my parents advice, Like it's going to be okay, Just be a good friend and, um, you know, that's what you're gonna remember 10 years down the line. So yeah, I've pretty much become my parents now.

Speaker 2:

That's really good advice, though. So since you've played for so long, you must have a crazy story. So what's the craziest thing that's ever happened to you on a tennis court?

Speaker 3:

I have been playing for a long time and I have a lot of crazy stories. I heard Claire Bartlett's interview with y'all and I've had something similar, where opponents flip the score. So I don't want to copy hers. But when I was in the girls' 12s and I was in a hot summer match battling it out and when I say battling I mean probably hitting a million lobs, because it was the 12s and I had to ask my parents you know, can I have Gatorade in my water bottle that day because it was so hot. So they gave me a mixture of water and Gatorade and we finally got to a changeover.

Speaker 3:

I was so excited to chug my Gatorade and I go to chug it and I took that first sip and I knew something was wrong and I had forgotten to close the lid on my water bottle. And sure enough, in the summer there were yellow jackets everywhere and they had gotten in the water bottle, the water jug, and when I took that chug yellow jackets it was a stew of Gatorade and yellow jackets. They fought all the way down and one stung me inside my throat and stuff. So that was the craziest story and lots of Benadryl and um ibuprofen solved it. Uh, you know, with some doctors. But, um yeah, I guess the moral of the story is always close your water, your water bottle, especially if you have sports drinks.

Speaker 2:

Could you finish your math?

Speaker 3:

No, I had to retire, but I did get the sportsmanship award from that tournament.

Speaker 1:

Wait. So you chugged it and the yellow jacket came down your throat.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, so they had all flown into my little water jug, you know, because I left the cap open and I didn't look before drinking. And yeah, I took one big swallow of yellow jackets.

Speaker 2:

That is crazy. That is definitely one we've never heard. All right, you get an award for that, francie.

Speaker 3:

Good, because I know you've interviewed hundreds of guests, right, right.

Speaker 1:

Francie, can you also tell us your most memorable moment on the court?

Speaker 3:

I've had a lot of those too, and you know they all center around team competition, whether it's college tennis, league tennis. There's just nothing better than playing as part of a team through tennis and uh, but I've been a coach and those are probably my best memories. I'd say one of them, um, that maybe your listeners can benefit from. When I was coaching at Methodist university, we were on our spring break trip. We were playing a team from Pennsylvania that, on paper, was a lot better than us. We should not have been competitive that day, but my players came to play. They strung together some wins and before we knew it it was all coming down to one singles match. Actually, it was, I believe, number four singles. It was our senior. She never lost. She was one of those players that took the pace off the ball and ran down everything and just never missed, never lost. She was awesome.

Speaker 3:

Unfortunately, it wasn't awesome that day. She lost the first set. She was down 5-2. And I went out there to talk to her and she was just bawling. She was so upset because she was going to let her team down and she was the upperclassman. She wanted nothing more to pull off that upset for the team and that girl was good.

Speaker 3:

I didn't know what to tell her as the coach, so all I tried to do was just try to get her to stop crying. I'd read some sports psychology books and I said you know, I've read that when you smile, it's nearly impossible to be nervous, sad, mad. It releases some chemicals into your bloodstream that suddenly, you know, just makes you happy. So let's try it. So I made her smile at me for 15 seconds, that changeover, and she wanted to kill me. But I made her have permagrim and she did it and I said okay, now you're going to go out and play and after every point you have to look at me and smile. She rolled her eyes again and she went out there.

Speaker 3:

She won the first point. She looks at me with the most fake grin anyone's ever seen, but she did it. She did it and then she wins the next point. You know she continues to give me the fake smile. She strings together that game and suddenly her smile got a little more genuine and her opponent got crazy. She was like I'm getting ready to close out this match and win it and for some reason, you know this girl's just laughing and smiling. What's going on? And before we knew it, my part, my player, had gotten to five on the second set. Second set by this point she really was. She was smiling during the points, after the points, before the points, and she came back and she won that set 7-5. And then the third set. I don't even know if she lost the game, she just put it on cruise control and it was really just about releasing that kind of stress and that negative energy through smiling.

Speaker 3:

And suddenly she got in a groove, she got in his own that's a great story so her teammates all ran out and pretty much tackled her on the court and it was one of the biggest wins at that time for our program um in history. So it was awesome. And, uh, I'd like to say it was my coaching advice. But, like I said, I was pretty much trying to get her to stop crying and she did the rest.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, but most people would you know give advice about like do this with your forehand or try a drop shot or you know like tactical. But you just did the emotional part, which that is credit to you.

Speaker 3:

Thank you. So now, when I coach adult players and they're heading to States and I know they're going to be nervous I do the same thing Even though I'm not out there on their court. I tell them they have to look at their partner and smile in between every point.

Speaker 1:

And it calms them down and hopefully provides a little more fun of an experience for them too.

Speaker 3:

I'm going to start doing that. I don't do that. I'm going to start smiling out. There you go. If nothing else, your post will wonder what's going on after you lost a point.

Speaker 2:

I know I want to see the big fake smile that would make me laugh Like when, you, when.

Speaker 3:

I know you're just faking it. That would make me start laughing. For sure, definitely. I want to see that too.

Speaker 1:

Anything else. Francie.

Speaker 3:

Well, yeah, I'd say in my current position. As your listeners probably know, tennis has been booming since COVID and we need more coaches. And so for league players out there that often think, oh I see my pro, I could never coach tennis, if you know more than someone that's never picked up a racket, then you can be a coach because you have something to offer them, and whether it's coaching kids, coaching adults, any age group, any skill level we have wheelchair, tennis, abilities, tennis we have so many different opportunities to make an impact, either as a volunteer or to make some extra money on the side. I encourage all your listeners, if you're passionate about tennis, to contact your USDA district or tennis service representative and they can help you get started. We do a lot of free trainings and low-cost trainings, but would love to have more people just using their passion to grow the game of tennis and introducing the sport so they can have the experiences that y'all have had.

Speaker 1:

We really appreciate Francie coming on the podcast. Please check out our website, which is SecondServePodcastcom. Thanks so much for listening and hope to see you next time.