Second Serve Tennis

Rallying Through Breast Cancer - A Crossover Episode with Michelle from Talk Tennis

• Second Serve with Carolyn Roach & Erin Conigliaro • Episode 293

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Michelle from Tennis Warehouse and the host of the Talk Tennis podcast found a lump before Wimbledon. Carolyn got a cancer email before getting the opportunity to sit in the President's Suite at the US Open with Erin. Hear how tennis and the tennis community carried them through diagnoses, wigs, and tough calls. 

Michelle is one of the most recognized playtesters in the world. In addition, she is a ridiculously good tennis player!

You can watch the full interview below:

Youtube: Talk Tennis Youtube

On TW: https://www.tennis-warehouse.com/podcast/

👉 Connect with Michelle at michelle@tennis-warehouse.com or Michelle's Instagram  

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Carolyn:

Hi, this is Carolyn, and I'm here with Erin, and it's October, which is Breast Cancer Awareness Month, and we're doing something we've never done before, which is a joint podcast with Michelle from the Talk Tennis podcast with Tennis Warehouse. Unfortunately, both Michelle and I both had breast cancer, so we discussed a little bit about that, and Erin talks about what it's like to see your friends go through it. So here it is.

Michelle:

Well, let's officially kick it off. Welcome to the collab you didn't know you needed talk. We've got Talk Tennis Podcast with me, Michelle, and then we have Second Serve Podcast with Carolyn and Erin. This is a different podcast, but I'm very excited to be doing it with both of you. And tennis has brought us together and continues to bring us together. And today we're recording this on October 1st. It is breast cancer awareness month. And Carolyn and I have something in common. And Erin, you're just a badass, awesome friend supporting. And so we're going to talk about breast cancer today and tennis.

Erin:

Yes. And how it relates to tennis. You wouldn't think it would, but it certainly does.

Michelle:

It's absolutely wild how much tennis actually has to do with everything. So I don't know how we want to start out. I don't know if you want to dive into your diagnosis story and kind of like weave a picture and let us know how it looks. It sounds like we both have diagnosis stories that revolve around tennis, of course, because we're tennis players always.

Carolyn:

Michelle, do you want to start with yours since you're actually in the trenches? I'm in it, guys. I am in it. You're you're in it. And and does everyone around you know it? Um, yes.

Michelle:

So well, not everyone. I don't know. I found a lump and I probably should have said something sooner than I did. And it was one of those things that growing up as a high-level tennis player, I've actually always had a very interesting relationship with my body. And so when I saw my lump, I I just assumed that I had gained weight. And a lot of times they tell women, give yourself a couple months, a couple period cycles, and you know, it will probably go away. And instead of, you know, taking a second look, I was like, let's train harder, run more, do more, try to figure this out and make it go away. And in June, it was actually Friday the 13th, is when I said something and spoke up. And I have still a crazy story because I don't actually have a GP doctor because the doctor issue in my area is insane. That's a whole nother podcast. Literally. Um, I I wanted to like write a book that's like going through breast cancer without a GP doctor. Um, so I could not get anyone to see me. And I was actually told I couldn't get an appointment for a mammogram until October. So I wrong.

Erin:

That's crazy.

Michelle:

I yes, I was calling everywhere, and um, I finally had a nurse call me back and she's like, I need you to be seen. Call this number. If they can't get you in, go to urgent care. So I got my initial breast exam at urgent care from the sweetest PA ever. And she just said, uh yes, you have a lump. It was obvious my my tumor was 2.7 centimeters. I don't think this is cancer. It's not presenting like cancer. That's good. Okay, you know, like that will hold me over until I get my mammogram and ultrasound. In the meantime, life is going on, obviously, and in the back of your head, you're like, okay, this is fine. We're just gonna think positive. I had been invited to go to Wimbledon with Babylon and um then go to Europe for uh at our tennis warehouse, Europe offices. And so my mammogram ultrasound was the day before my trip to Wimbledon.

Carolyn:

No.

Erin:

Yeah. Yep. This is this is eerily similar to what we're gonna get into with Carolyn.

Michelle:

So I go in. I literally remember putting on the pink gown, and you're just sitting there, you're like, really?

unknown:

Yeah.

Michelle:

And I I even like snapped a photo, like, this could be my last moments before I know I have cancer and I and I kind of, you know, I don't know, Carolyn, if you felt this way. I was like, yeah, this is cancer, like it's fine. We're gonna handle it, it will be fine. So I get the I start the ultrasound. They come in to give me my results. The doctor, the radiologist comes in and he goes, I know you. And I'm like, Oh, you know, it's a small town. And then he's like, No, I I know you. I watch your tennis world. Oh my goodness. That's amazing. And he's like, I I am so sorry to say, like, you it looks like you have a cancerous tumor. And I was kind of like, okay. And he was like, and unfortunately it spread to your lymph nodes, and that was what was like, oh shoot. Yeah, that one really got me. And he was like, We need to set up a biopsy and all this. Oh my gosh, the PA, that was amazing. I've got goosebum goosebumps just talking about it. Um and he's I'm like, Well, I'm going to Wimbledon tomorrow. And he's like, I really wish that you weren't. And then the PA's like, well, she couldn't get an appointment tomorrow anyway. So went to Europe, did my thing, didn't sleep at all. No sleeping.

Erin:

Yeah.

Michelle:

Um, came back the day later, did my biopsy. They, I mean, they knew my tumor was cancer right away. Um, and then you know, the rest is a lot of a story. And as you know, um once you start, it's scary. And there's a lot. You have appointments, you have three oncologists, you have MRI, PET scan, blood test, genetic testing. Um, so it spiraled from there. I keep joking that the summer I had cancer. Like, but now we're going to the fall I had cancer. Um the summer I had cancer. Because uh yeah, and so I told my team, they found out after I did my MRI that I had two lymph nodes that were infected, which it sounds like you had more. Okay, overachiever over there. Right. And you don't want to achieve in that.

Erin:

Yeah, you don't want to be an overachiever on cancer. Yeah.

Michelle:

Um, I guess if we're like getting into it, it's so interesting because like once you start learning, there's like three main types of breast cancer. So I'm ER positive, PR positive, HERS to negative, stage 2B. I was um told I was going to have to have chemo before my surgery, and that terrified me. And the port, and I am curious to hear about this from your end. So basically, when I went in for my chemo teach, which yes, you go in and you have a whole day dedicated to learning about chemo. Another appointment, yes. Another appointment. That's terrifying. Uh, they were talking about the port and the the nurse, they're so sweet. But the nurse goes, Yeah, if you play golf, you're you're not gonna be able to play golf. And I'm like, Okay, well, I don't play golf, but what about tennis? Yeah. And she's like, Well, do you screw swing aggressively? Uh yeah. So, anyways, um I was terrified about the port, and I was like, Cool, I'm never gonna play tennis again. Just knowing that it could flip. That's what everyone was telling me, and like just terrified, absolutely terrified. Um two days before I had my port surgery, they did a last-minute, you never do this in breast cancer, but they ran my oncotype before because I was presenting to not have benefit from chemo. My oncotype came back very low. Low, and all of my other tests, um, genetic testing was very low for reoccurrence. So they pulled the plug on chemo, and then that's a whole nother story. This could take hours to get through. So I'm gonna pass the baton.

Carolyn:

Yeah.

Michelle:

Carolyn, what are you working with? What were you working with?

Carolyn:

Oh, bad. Oh, Michelle, I'm so sorry. When I found out that you had it, I was just devastated because it's that's the first well, and I feel like it's the logistical nightmare on top of cancer, just getting through day to day. So I was just so devastated.

Erin:

I found out, and then I was like, the first person I don't want to contact is Carolyn to be like, guess who else has cancer? Like that's not super fun.

Michelle:

Well, I was like leaving breadcrumbs too. Like I had like posted some stuff like just keep swimming, like as I'm like starting the process, and like people have no idea. Yeah, yeah.

Carolyn:

Anyways, because it's such a mental, it's a mental, it does a mental job on you. You don't know what's up from down. Your entire life switches as soon as they tell you that. So what happened with me is that Aaron, I don't know if you know this or not, but sure I do.

unknown:

Go ahead.

Carolyn:

You probably do, and I forgot that I told you. Yes. Aaron called me and said, so I had had the biopsy on Wednesday. I had gone in and had a mammogram, a biopsy at 40. And on that Friday, Aaron called me and said, Have you checked your email? We got invited to be in the president suite at the US Open. And so I was on cloud nine. I mean, we got to go to the US Open with friends. It was gonna be my first time. Right.

Erin:

And now we were gonna get to know that at the time, but it happened to be Serena Williams.

Carolyn:

Her last match.

Michelle:

Was it her last match against Ivan Tomianovich?

Carolyn:

Yeah, there was, you know, we were gonna get to interview the USTA president. There was all this stuff coming up, and we were super excited. I had the biopsy on Wednesday, and nobody had called me yet, and they told me they would have results by the weekend. And so it was Friday, and I was like, I'm doing great. Let me give a quick call to the nurse, make sure that's all good, and then keep going. And um, I left a message for her and she called me back. And I remember she said, you know, we know you have cancer, we don't know um all the information yet, but you'll get it in my chart this weekend. It looks like it's stage three, and we'll contact you on Monday.

Michelle:

Thanks. Have a nice weekend. Bye.

Carolyn:

Yeah, have a good weekend. And I I remember thinking I went from the highest high to lowest low in a matter of 15 to 20 minutes. Yeah. So it was such a crazy experience from there. I had also at um 37, I had felt something. So I'm 43 now, but at 37, I had felt something, and I had gone in for a biopsy and um, or mammogram ultrasound biopsy, and they said it's um pash, it's nothing to worry about. For a for a year, every three months, I went back and had a mammogram, and then they discharged me and said, come back at 40. And so it was just, I really wasn't worried, you know, the way you kind of knew. Yeah, I didn't know. You were the opposite, yeah. And so that's and I even questioned, should I go to the US Open? So I went through. You went though, right?

Michelle:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Carolyn:

We did thank goodness. I think what I mean, Michelle, I don't know how you feel, but like take the trip.

Michelle:

No, absolutely take the trip. And like that do everything, yeah. And it was like one of those things where I was like, this could be, you know, you never know.

Erin:

And but still get the experiences. Like, I mean, Carolyn is an early to bed girl, and we stayed up. I don't want to fast forward through the story, but we were still at the US Open at 1:30 in the morning one night on Friday night. And I think I looked at you at like 11 something and I was like, How are you feeling? She's like, keep going, let's go. And she normally would be like in PJs and in bed by nine. And she didn't sleep at all. Like that whole weekend, I know when we were in New York, she was, you know, she was getting up, I'm saying that in air quotes, at five because she is super healthy and she works out even when she's on the road, but she just wasn't sleeping all night. So, like we saw her at seven for breakfast, and she's like, Oh, I was up at five and working out. But we knew it's because she just never really ever fell asleep, you know, because of just that spinning. I mean, that was only two weeks before the US Open is when you found out, right? Yeah.

Carolyn:

And my husband was very adamant. He's like, You have to go. You have to go. And I'm so glad I did. So yeah. But that was kind of how it all started. And then um, it's just been, you know, Michelle knows you don't sleep, you're anxious, you're a part of a club you don't want to be part of. Um it's the best club once you're in it. It's the best club, and you feel love like you have never felt in your life. So from your tennis family.

Erin:

Yes.

Michelle:

Yeah. Oh, I have my oosebombs.

Erin:

I was telling, I was telling Michelle off air before we started um recording that I was hoping that you would be willing to tell your wig story, Carolyn, when we went wig shopping.

Michelle:

Which, like, also before you start, Carolyn, you were talking me down because I was ready for you guys don't even know. And we're gonna talk about like the mental game of it all and how it relates to tennis. But like I was so prepared. I think I told, I don't know if I told you, but I was like, I'm gonna be a pumpkin spice, pumpkin spice chemo girl. Like I was getting in a red wig that was all short. So like I was all in it. And it's not that I like said, no, I'm not doing chemo, like it didn't work for me. But like it's weird sometimes being the cancer girl that like still has her hair, but I want to hear the wig story. Sorry.

Carolyn:

Because, well, people don't know that you're going through it. I think it was very, it's very obvious to people when they saw me. Because even though, you know, I got a wig, it was so amazing. Aaron came with me, another tennis friend, my friend Teresa came with me, and they made it a super fun experience. So something that would be really hard for me, they made it fun. And I'll start crying. I don't even want to.

Erin:

I know, exactly.

Carolyn:

We've done a lot of you if I don't like it. And I was like, perfect. We'll see. Okay, so I'll tell you.

Michelle:

I'm like, wait, why?

Carolyn:

Yeah, yeah.

Erin:

She got two actually. Well, she got one with a hat with a hair, which looked super cute. But I'll tell you, when we showed up, so I I'm just kind of obsessed with wigs anyway. I don't know why I don't have one, but like I'll watch wig videos and like they're so crazy.

Carolyn:

I'll give you mine, Aaron. Okay. I'll send you a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a brunette.

Erin:

But um, you know, they have all these toppers now, and like it's just crazy. Like it's a culture of like wearing wigs now. Like we've just sort of, but we went, we went early because we're early girls. So we went to because you had to have an appointment to the go to the wig shop, and all three of us pull up separately in our three separate cars and we get out and we have like a little meeting. I don't know if you remember all this, Carolyn, because you were in the thick of it. We had like a little meeting in front of the door, and I was like kind of like, I hope they don't see that we're being weird out here standing, you know, before our meeting time. I mean, before our wig scheduled time or whatever. And Carolyn was like, Listen, I brought you two because you will be honest with me and do not let me spend this kind of money if I'm gonna look stupid, right? Like, so and I told her, I said, I am very fearful. I'm not gonna like anything. Like I remembered that right? Do you remember? I was like, this is gonna be bad. I don't, I'm really nervous. That and we went in there, and first of all, it was spectacular, like how good they looked on her. She put some on. You still had your hair at the time. You hadn't started chemo. Yeah, you got she got it before she actually was had lost her hair. And they matched it, like you would not even know that it was not her hair. I was blown away. So I was like, get all the wigs. I'm so impressed. Um, and then Teresa, our friend who went with us, um, was trying them all on. She's like the blonde wig. She's Asian. She has dark hair.

Michelle:

She has I would have gone, that's what I would have done. Like extremes. Like this is not me.

Erin:

For such a stressful, you know, Carolyn knew what was like, I don't want to start crying, but she knew what was ahead, you know? Um, so she did.

Carolyn:

She got a cool great wig and the hat, which she wore, I think, a lot with the but it was my tennis friends stepping up so many times with everything. Yeah, everything. It was tennis people. I don't know if you felt the love, Michelle, from tennis people, but there's something about this amazing community that I mean, they got me through it. All my tennis friends did.

Michelle:

That's cool. Mine's a little different because I don't I don't play on a team, but I do coach a team.

Erin:

Do coach, yeah.

Michelle:

Which so telling, yeah, I actually didn't think I would coach this season before cancer. And I was like, no, it's too much. And um, I'm not gonna lie to you. Like, you know, some people try to figure out where and how everything happens to cause this. And the first thing anyone will ever say is like, you're never gonna find out the root cause. But I will be completely honest, I've been running myself pretty ragged the last three to five years. And um, I think coaching, uh adding that in was a lot was a lot. So I had already decided I did not want to do it. And my athletic director was like, one more year, one more year, and he's gonna retire after this season. So I was like, one more year, fine. I kept saying I'm like, I don't know my why. I need to know my why if I'm gonna do this. Long story short, his wife, I joked, is my cancer fairy godmother. She, I'm genuinely, I genuinely believe she is the reason why I'm coaching this team because the second I told him about my diagnosis, and I had no idea his wife went through it, he was like, talk to Jenny, she's amazing. She will walk you through every single step. She, she will be there when you need her, like whatever you need. Don't feel like you have to like be a friend back. Like, she's gonna be there. And like, if you go through our text, like paragraphs, I literally would copy paste what she would tell me, send it an email to my mom and my sister, like, hey, here's what's going on now. And like, oh, I owe so much to her for because it's overwhelming. And I don't know how to navigate how anyone would navigate it without knowing what to do. Cause you, and you're so you're just thrown in it. Like you literally get your biopsy results, and then they connect you with a surgeon, and you're like, oh, a surgeon? This is crazy. I'm gonna have surgery. And then they're like, no, no, no. But now you meet your medical oncologist, and now you meet your radiation oncologist, and it's like all these things, and like, no joke, it's like, okay, chemo's happening next week. Get your port, get your CT scan, get this, and then you're like, okay, and you don't even and I'm sure for you, I don't know, maybe not, but for me at the beginning, I was like, I will do anything and everything to get this out of me and be fine.

Carolyn:

Yes, absolutely.

Michelle:

And you're terrified, and like I cried every day, every morning I went to work, I cried, and then just let it all out. And like sometimes I'm usually one of the first ones in our office. Sometimes someone would ask me something and I would just lose it. Yeah. Just crying. But so I had, yes, and my my girls' team, I didn't know. Well, uh when I thought I was getting chemo, which I was like, okay, they're gonna see that I don't have hair. I have to explain.

Carolyn:

Yeah.

Michelle:

So I did share it with them at the beginning of the season. Um, it's very cute. They have been so supportive. Um, on their tanks, they have a pink breast cancer ribbon embroidered on. They wear pink in their on their pink ribbons on every match, pink in their hair. Um the yeah, they rallied and they have no idea, you know, one one of their that's what I was gonna say also, one in eight right now is are diagnosed with breast cancer. So I have 14 girls on my varsity team, one of their moms have gone through it. So it's like you know that like this is going to affect them. So it's like you want to share, you want to be a positive role model in that way, but it's weird because some days you're just like, I just want to get through this day. Yeah, yeah.

Carolyn:

Anyways, it it's so hard. It's so hard. I was really lucky because I you were talking about there was someone that led you through it. My sister-in-law is a cancer navigation specialist. So if I had not had her when I got my results on that Saturday, I I would have been completely lost because you don't know how to read anything, you don't understand what it's saying, you don't know what anything means. Um, it would have been terrible. Like that it just is so hard. It's so hard for everybody. It's hard for everybody involved, but you do. You start saying you have it, and then you realize or you're going through this. So many other people have too. I mean, just people that are on my tennis team have had it. There's a girl that I went to college with. Um, she got it at 35 and was able to walk me through everything. I mean, you really you meet these people that just support you and help you through it. I I remember Aaron, do you remember this? You capped in a singles team and I was on the singles team and they won the state championship. And at states, they put um Jen made tattoos.

Erin:

Temporary tattoos, yeah. One of our opponents that we were playing in one of the matches came up to us after the match and she said, I saw that you had a breast cancer um tattoo on. I also went through it. Um, you know, please tell your teammate, you know, that if she wants to reach out, I mean, this was a complete stranger and was like, if she needs any support, you know, I mean, she was that that woman was amazing too. But she was um, I think our my friend Canna played her and she ended up taking a selfie with her because we just adored her so much, you know, she was just awesome.

Carolyn:

Yeah, and it was so good to hear these good stories of like, hey, there's somebody 10 years older playing tennis at the state championship, and that, you know, maybe 10 years from now, that'll be me. Um, and then even my spring team, I remember they made hats with my initials on them. Although someone from my spring team did ask me if I wanted to captain, like this is for legs. And I was like, absolutely not.

Michelle:

Not don't sign me up for anything extra after cancer.

unknown:

No.

Erin:

Would you like to be the face of our team, the breast cancer girl that we're wearing hats for, and do all the hard work and captain for us?

Carolyn:

I'm like, I don't want to captain when I'm healthy. I definitely don't want women to be mad at me for putting them on a line. They don't want to be online. No, literally. We have one more episode with Michelle where we discuss how our tennis community helped us through the difficult times. Michelle is going through radiation appointments every day. So if anyone listening would like to send Michelle a motivational quote or positive vibes or has any questions for her, she told us we could give her contact information. If you'd like to hear the complete interview, we've included a link to the Talk Tennis podcast and YouTube channel. Thanks so much for listening and hope to see you on the court soon.