Mastering the Art of Influential Leadership: Balancing Power Without Force - 184

Have you ever faced the paradox of wielding influence without tipping into tyranny? Today, I, Sean, invite you to explore the subtle dance between power and force in leadership on Reload. We unravel how leaders can inspire action and foster collaboration, sidestepping the temptation to coerce. I'll share stories from my journey and those of my clients, where the battle to exert authentic leadership transcends gender and tradition, pointing to a universal yearning for leadership that's rooted in sincerity and strength.

Communication is the heartbeat of any great leader, and in this episode, we dissect its complexities. Discover ways to align your team with your vision, all while keeping the dialogue open and the atmosphere free of strain. I'll illuminate how staying in sync with the 'flow' is crucial in steering clear of burnout and championing organizational transformation. You'll get a glimpse into my coaching sessions where I contrast the emotional resonance of empowering leadership against the frosty consequences of force. Listen for how these approaches can make or break the delicate fabric of team dynamics and talent retention.

As we wrap up, I offer a prescription for powerful leadership that eschews force—a vision passionately shared and supported across every level of your organization. I'll divulge practical tactics to lead with poise and instill a culture of curiosity and patience, drawing from my experiences as a performance coach and combat veteran. The conversation concludes with a toolkit for self-reflection and strategies to manage impulses that could lead to heavy-handedness. If you're looking to shift the paradigm of leadership in your life, share this episode with a colleague or friend and spark a transformative dialogue on what it means to lead with genuine power.

Are you an executive, entrepreneur, or combat veteran looking to overcome subconscious blind spots and limiting messaging to unlock your highest performance? Feel free to reach out to Sean at Reload Coaching and Consulting.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:01

Welcome to the Reload, where we help unconventional leaders craft the life they truly want by questioning the assumptions they have about how life works. My name is Sean and I'll be your host on this journey. As a performance coach and Special Operations Combat Veteran, I help high-performing executives kick-ass in their careers while connecting with deeply powerful insights that fuel their lives. Good morning or good evening, or whatever it is for you, thank you, as always, for dedicating the time to listen to these episodes and, obviously, if it is your first time here, well, doubly welcome.

Speaker 1: 0:42

Most recently, I have been discussing the topic of power versus force with clients and, given sort of the ubiquitous nature of this conversation topic meaning that it's shown up with almost all my clients and that it tends to show up consistently throughout an engagement these two factors kind of communicate to me that it's a topic worth discussing, because it's not an easy one. It's one with which people struggle. Whether it's a male client or a female client, or a client that doesn't really prescribe to those norms, it doesn't really matter. I've seen it play out all kinds of different ways and ultimately it's, I think, getting to a deeper understanding of what is the difference between power and force. Now, if you're listening to this, then chances are you are either an entrepreneur or an executive of some sort and that generally, much like my clients, you are in a position of power and authority, whether it's in the private sector, public sector, whatever. And chances are, if this episode caught your attention, that it's something that you've recognized inside yourself, that you often attempt to achieve your goals with force rather than power. Is it possible to be a powerful leader without having to be forceful? I think it is.

Speaker 1: 2:44

Now, before we dive any deeper, what are we looking at when we talk about power and force? And here I guess there is a certain element of subjectivity. So one of the most recent conversations I had around this topic was with a client, and while we were both talking about the same concept, each of us gravitated toward a different label for those respective concepts, meaning essentially we were sort of inverted from one another. So what I was considering power, he was considering, he was using the word force, and vice versa. So ultimately, I don't think it really matters too much what the labels are. We just want to make sure that we're clear about what we're really talking about. So, for the sake of this episode and, I guess, generally just a sense of clarity around it.

Speaker 1: 3:42

I'm going to say that, when we are talking about power, that we're looking at where it is, that we are operating from a position of clarity, we're operating from a position of collaboration, we have a deeper understanding of what it is that motivates people around us, that we're also deeply connected to our own sense of confidence, that we feel like we are enough, that we're grounded not just in our mission or our purpose, but also in ourselves and what we bring to the proverbial table. And so, then, when I use the term force, what I mean by that is, in some ways, it's the antithesis to power, where it is that we have a certain title or a certain role that puts us in authority, but that there is a deep crack, I guess, in our sense of confidence in that, and that perhaps we may have clarity around purpose and mission, but that perhaps we're not feeling totally aligned with it, or that maybe we don't fully understand how to bring that vision forward, and therefore there's also a lack of confidence, and that when it comes to our interactions with other people, when we are forceful, that we are actually attempting to utilize our authority in order to coerce. So I'm trying very hard here not to use the label actually in the definition, which is surprisingly challenge in an extemporaneous talk here. So, oh yes, and I guess that reminds me I haven't done this public service announcement in a while. If I talk too slow for you, then you go ahead and I am going to empower you to double or triple speed my speech, which will actually serve us both, because I will sound way smarter talking a lot faster. But given that I don't operate with a script and just have some bullet points in front of me, because I do want this to be organic, I do want it to be something that, even though I have put thought into it, I don't want it to be read like some sort of scripted speech. So, anyways, if my slow talk is annoying for you, go ahead and speed it right on up. Anyway, back to the topic.

Speaker 1: 6:26

But when we look at this idea of power versus force, power is often very attractive. You know, if you think about the person that you are dating or the person that you ended up marrying, there was a certain power that they had. Now there might be, I don't know, relationships out there where you were forced to marry someone or forced to partner with someone. But often when we look at what it is that brings us into union, whether it's romantically or whether it's the union of a team, then we see something powerful, we feel it. We feel power and it's attractive, it's drawing us in, whereas when we are forced or coerced into something, it often feels less than virtuous, let's say, it feels like we're operating from a position of constraint, that somebody is putting those constraints on us, they're forcing us ah, do escape, using the label in the definition but we're being forced onto a certain path that we don't want to be on.

Speaker 1: 7:34

And so oftentimes in my head when I'm thinking about this and when I think about it not just in the sense of, like coaching CEOs and vice presidents and et cetera, et cetera, but in my own life, where it is that I am attempting to shove somebody from behind versus what is it that is pulling them forward in a self enticed kind of way, carrot versus stick, and it's not. I think oftentimes that language carrot versus stick can sometimes conjure up this notion of bribery, and that's not what we're talking about. We're not talking about, I guess, appealing to somebody's base or instincts. What we're looking at is in trying to be a truly powerful leader? What is our understanding of the other party's intrinsic motivation and how are we able to communicate the vision to those individuals in such a way that it lights them up, it inspires you. Think about times where you have been inspired in your life. You're often then connected to something very powerful inside of you. So a powerful leader is also someone who is able to reach out and touch the emotion in the other party, and not simply smash the other party onto a specific agenda, for instance.

Speaker 1: 9:11

Now, if we start to entertain the question why would it be beneficial to be powerful without having to be forceful and let me take a quick side journey here. Hopefully it won't be too long but am I saying that we, as leaders can never be forceful? No, I'm not saying that. I believe that there are probably times when being forceful is effective. I'm going to avoid labeling it as good or bad and really focus on is it effective? Where might being forceful actually be effective? I would say in times of emergency, in times of truly genuinely constrained time, meaning immediate crisis. If we don't do something right now and I mean right now then terrible things will happen. Now. The trick is that in most corporate settings there are, are not those conditions present.

Speaker 1: 10:35

My wife is a top-notch corporate attorney who also happens to do litigation work, and one of the things that I've noticed with her and then all of my classmates from law school who did get into transactional work excuse me at a high level, is that companies often create sort of arbitrary deadlines, things that quote-unquote, have to happen by tonight at midnight, and I see that in my clients as well. They're very prone to generating pressure and stress about how quickly something needs to happen. Now, part of that is because they recognize that there are a lot of dominoes that are tied to their individual decisions and they do understand, okay, there's a long chain of events that are going to have to happen when I make a decision this way or that way. But oftentimes I think we inadvertently run in this kind of panicky firefighting mode because we haven't gotten very clear about what's truly important and where it is that we have more time than we believe. Not everything has to be crisis mode.

Speaker 1: 11:48

But getting back to the main topic of today, looking at when it is effective to be forceful, is often when that immediacy is present, legitimately present and how is it that we can sort of quickly snap everybody into common purpose. But, based on what I've seen from my clients, if you rely on force too frequently and also too intensely, then it tends to create sort of strange counter reactions in people where they become obstinate and resistant because they generally don't want to be forced. And if you find somebody, if you find a team or you have hired a team or grown a team or whatever you want to call it that is willing to be forced all the time, you're probably facing a team that's not going to be that effective in the long run because they're willing to bend over all the time, they're willing to just go on autopilot and have you give them all of the instructions instead of thinking for themselves, instead of pushing back on you when it is appropriate, when you might not be seeing all the details or you may not be considering certain ramifications. So, yes, I do think that there are times when being forceful can be effective. But why is it beneficial to be powerful without having to be forceful? Well, I already alluded to one answer there, in that generally high performers who are capable of executing independent, autonomous leadership and thereby allow the senior, most leader, to scale themselves and to avoid being a bottleneck in the organization. Those kind of team members, from a psychological and emotional perspective, generally detest being forced and they will operate at a much higher level if they are connected to a powerful vision that you have been able to provide and also that you have taken the time to really understand how to communicate the vision to that individual. It's not necessarily a one-size-fits-all kind of vision, or at least the communication of that vision is not one-size-fits-all. So when it comes to senior, most leaders who have really truly taken the time to understand okay, this person is going to want to hear this vision this way, this other person probably this other way, etc. Etc. Then you're going to generally find you're far more effective at being a powerful versus a forceful leader.

Speaker 1: 14:57

So much of whether people are on board is do they understand? And so much of understanding boils down to communication, and communication in turn is really much about letting the listener receive the message in a way that is accessible for the listener. You know, when I was in corporate training, there was an expression that comprehension is measured at the listener's ear, not the speaker's mouth, and while that's not 100% foolproof, I think it can be very guiding in terms of yeah, okay, how do we communicate? How do I, as the person who is attempting to convey the vision, ensure that you, the listener, the recipient, have actually understood what I am saying? How do I test for comprehension or check for comprehension? And if the comprehension level is not high enough, how do we continue to have a conversation that doesn't start to get, all you know, tense, because it's like God, why aren't you getting this? It's so easy to understand, which is where a number of my clients do end up going, because they feel a certain sense of pressure that they okay, I got to get this whole team on board and we got to get moving and got to make it happen, and et cetera, et cetera.

Speaker 1: 16:23

So what are some other benefits to being powerful without having to be forceful? Part of it is it keeps the emotional tension at a more even level. We're able to operate with lightness, the certain, dare I say, sense of ease, instead of trying to smash a square peg into a round hole or instead of trying to push the river, as it were, all these kinds of a Kochi imagery and metaphors. We're able to understand what the flow is and, in part, adapt ourselves to that flow, and this is another part of being a powerful leader is? It's not necessarily about, okay, I'm going to redirect the flow of the course of this river, I'm going to push it Now, sometimes being a powerful leader, and also a powerful leader that has longevity oh shit, are you kidding?

Speaker 1: 17:33

Yeah, longevity, not just in your role at the given organization, but also the internal sense of burnout that comes with so many leaders, so many of the people that I'm working with Whoa man, are they tired? They're physically tired and they're mentally and emotionally tired, and part of that is where it is that they've been trying to sort of push the river to a totally different track instead of recognizing okay, there are going to be places where you adapting to the course of the river metaphorical river is going to help you in terms of burnout and it's going to help the organization, because an organization a group basically is what we're talking about a group of humans can only accept a certain amount of change and difference in a given period of time. Now, I'm completely incapable of providing you an exact measure of what that looks like, because it changes based on the organization. If you work at some massive blue chip company that has a really long established history and massive amount of protocols and procedures and entrenched bureaucracy. Or if you work in a government, let's say that's going to be a radically different environment, with radically different personalities, than if you're working at some seed stage startup. That tends generally to attract individuals that have greater flexibility, a greater sense of adventure, a greater sense of. Let's tackle the unknown, which is not to say that startups are just some paradise of oh wow, we're so flexible and we can do whatever we want. No, there's plenty of stress and chaos and uncertainty. That shows up in those environments as well. It's just proportionally looks different.

Speaker 1: 19:45

What are some other benefits of being powerful without having to be forceful? Well, I think also, when we look at it, oh gosh I hate saying this because it's gonna sound so touchy-feely, but there is actually a warmth. There's a warmth between the leader and the subordinates when they are able to be powerful without being forceful, and perhaps it's gonna be easier to talk about it from the other side when a leader is forceful and I know this because I often coach multiple members in a team, including the leader of that team, and so I'm coaching the leader and I'm coaching the team members, and so I get to hear some of these conversations unfold and the ramifications that they have on the individuals involved. And I can tell you time and time and time again, when a leader is forceful outside of those very rare circumstances where time is of the essence no bullshit, we gotta move right now but other than those rare times, if the leader is leaning on being forceful, the impact that it seems to have on the subordinates is they withdraw, they sense I don't know sort of a coldness, right, there's a strain on the relationship itself.

Speaker 1: 21:21

And then, from a more tactical perspective, what ends up happening is reduced communication. And I mean that both in terms of frequency like literally how often people talk because the subordinates are trying to avoid you and also what they are willing to tell you because they don't want their face blown off by this super volatile leader who's being forceful frequently. And if you think that you're gonna be in charge of an organization effectively when your people are not talking to you, either in terms of frequency or in terms of what they're actually disclosing, then you are sadly mistaken. And the irony is that when that communication starts to break down oftentimes forceful leaders as opposed to powerful leaders forceful leaders often end up gripping even harder, which manifests in micromanagement, which then communicates to the subordinate oh you don't trust me. And then the subordinate shuts down even further and it's just this spiral to the bottom and it sucks for everybody. And then eventually the people that can leave will leave, and it's usually your highest performing people that are gonna bail out first because they know that they can go somewhere else, and then you're even more screwed.

Speaker 1: 22:50

So I'm not laughing because I think it's well. I guess in part I find it somewhat humorous because it's just so ludicrous that we go through the cycle. But I also have a great deal of sympathy for my clients that are facing this and I strive mightily to help them sort of get in front of that cycle. And oftentimes it does require some apologies, it requires some soul-bearing, which can be deeply uncomfortable, and I have a profound amount of respect for my clients that go through that process with their teams, where they lay themselves bare and they say, man, I'm scared right now, which, ironically, is very powerful.

Speaker 1: 23:29

It's a very powerful manifestation of leadership when the leader is able to communicate, not in some sloppy spilled milk sort of way, like, oh, I'm panicking, but how is it that the leader can communicate? Hey, I don't have all the answers here and, yes, I do my best to be confident, but I, like you, do not have an answer book. I have a playbook. I have a number of plays or tools or resources or perspectives that I can draw on and I have a general sense of intelligence, of deductive reasoning and ability to figure things out, and I think that I have a good intuition for hiring or drawing toward me good people, you people. But when the leader is capable of laying themselves open like that, it is deeply powerful. And again, I know this because I coach both the leader and the subordinates.

Speaker 1: 24:32

Often, and unbidden by myself, the coach, the subordinate client, will often start to talk in a session about, oh my gosh, the CEO or the president or the vice president or the whatever Started to talk about blank, blank, blank, blank, blank. You know their fears and where it is that they didn't have all the answers and et cetera, et cetera. And it's such a powerful moment for the subordinate to see their bosses' humanity, to see their fallibility, but also to recognize and this is where you know, I don't want you to turn into just a spilled puddle on the floor they also began to recognize that the leader was communicating that vulnerability, but from a place of power. It's not just oh, this guy's falling and let's all just commit suicide. Here I mean like notionally, but I don't have the answers and still I have a confidence that we can figure it out. And this dovetails into this notion of what does it look like to be powerful without forcing others. Part of it involves vulnerability, and vulnerability is a topic that has come up throughout you know so many episodes on this show Because it is so empowering and it's so powerful. And it's so powerful Because it is so empowering, it's so connecting.

Speaker 1: 26:09

And again, if you think that you're gonna be an effective leader without being connected to your people, good luck. I mean, I wish you well in that. I have never seen it work. Not that it can't work, obviously I haven't seen everything, but I think you're gonna be creating a real struggle for yourself if you are not deeply connected to your people. Does being deeply connected to your people mean that you're gonna be chummy and everything's gonna be like best friends forever? No, because as the senior, most leader of whatever group you're in, you are still gonna be responsible for ensuring that performance standards are met, and that means that oftentimes there are gonna be some uncomfortable conversations about where somebody's potentially not chipping in the way they ought to be or they're not meeting the standard, et cetera, et cetera, and that's still part of your function as the senior leader of whatever group. But we can still be deeply connected to each other and to the purpose that we are attempting to achieve, and that's another element.

Speaker 1: 27:29

Oftentimes when I see a leader who is being forceful, they are often unwittingly, unconsciously serving their own ego versus being truly in service of the purpose of the organization or the group, and that element can be highly corrosive to your ability to be effective as a leader. So when we look at tangibly how this shows up, some of it already mentioned right when is it that you are dedicating time to understanding the individual personalities on the individual level and how they're actually being able to do that? And in the individual personalities on your team, how they like to be motivated, how they receive communication, what types of circumstances cause them to thrive or shrink? How can you have truly effective communication, especially around difficult topics? What is required in order for you to set up an effective conversation about something difficult and oftentimes something that you've had a track record on?

Speaker 1: 28:58

How is it that you focus somebody's attention by invitation, not force right Invitation, on okay, hey, you know, this project seems to be behind schedule or it seems to be off track in some other way. If we were interested in solving that. Well, let me back up for a second. Does the other party agree? Do you share that perspective? And when a senior leader is talking to a subordinate, it is all too easy for the subordinate to simply say okay and for the leader to assume that that means that the subordinate is in agreement, versus simply relying on a linguistic construction that just kicks the can down the road because they don't want to challenge your assertion or they don't want to challenge your assessment. So we have to actually be very clear up front. Do you actually agree with this? Or are you simply saying okay because you want me out of your ass?

Speaker 1: 30:10

And it invites conversation, sometimes uncomfortable conversation, but presuming that both parties agree that some sort of project was off track or whatever, then you can begin to focus the conversation on okay, hey, what is the vision? You know, if we just take a moment to go back to what was our original vision for this initiative or this project or this whatever, we quickly sort of brush the dust off of the genesis of why a certain project or initiative was started. Then we can begin to say okay, well, you know, it's been a few weeks or it's been a few months. How do we think we're tracking along that? We've just said that we don't think it's tracking very well. We've just said that if we were oriented towards solution and not just fault finding, what would we be doing different? Do we need to shuffle a couple of the players because maybe it turns out that they're not in the right role in order to execute like we need? And that doesn't necessarily mean fire. Sometimes it just means you know, this is probably not where you're thriving, so let's get you in a different seat and get somebody else in this seat, or whatever. You're incredibly intelligent and creative people, so I'm guessing that you're going to be able to figure this out.

Speaker 1: 31:29

But the point is, how do we focus ourselves on a positive future as opposed to finger pointing and blame Again key characteristics of a powerful leader versus a forceful leader? And that vision that vision, I think, is so, so dynamic. Being able to come back to the vision, being able to come back to the openness do we all share in this vision? And that is especially relevant when it comes to senior leadership teams. Having worked with different teams at different levels of organizations, I can say that the senior most leadership team if all the individuals on that team are not bought into the vision actively and that they understand sort of the collective communication around that vision but then also have their own individual tie in, then you are facing a very, very strong challenge to the success of the organization Because each one of the members that sits at that senior leadership team table is responsible for being that champion of that vision along their respective departments or divisions and it has massive ripple consequences if everyone at that table is not able to access the vision On a more tangible level.

Speaker 1: 33:14

Being powerful without forcing typically involves I don't know a calmer tone of voice. I mean that may sound a bit pedestrian, but I'm surprised at the number of times that I'll end up talking with a client and they will somewhat embarrassingly that's not the way to phrase that with a sort of embarrassed tone of voice, they will communicate to me that, yeah, they yelled at a team member or they raised their voice in some way or they ended up getting sort of snippy and short clipped tones and so being able to connect with a sense of patience is also very powerful. To be inquisitive Instead of simply saying here's the path, you had better put your fucking feet on it and start walking. Can we be curious for a moment? I'm not saying you need to be curious for two years. Obviously, you have, as the senior, most leader in whatever group you have the, not only the authority but also the responsibility to ensure that. Okay, hey, you know, collectively we've decided that the path is over here, and if you have an outlier on your team that's not getting it, yeah sure, step in and say hey, what? What do you not see about this path? Or is there a disagreement about the path that we're all on?

Speaker 1: 34:51

You know that's another area where the powerful leader versus the forceful leader. Oftentimes the powerful leader is able to communicate and not sorry is able to connect with their own sense of curiosity and their own sense of receiving feedback, Whereas the forceful leader is often in a position of just, no, this is the only way that it's going to work, my way, or the highway. So that powerful leader is able to take in feedback, feedback that actually does very effectively alter the trajectory of the organization and it's not a bad thing. So what to do if you are recognizing that you are more forceful than powerful in the way that you conduct yourself as a leader? For starters and again this is sort of more on the practical level solicit feedback. Solicit feedback not just on your individual behaviors, for instance, like, how often do you resort to yelling or short clip tones that communicate effectively? Hey, you better get your ass in gear and get on my program, otherwise your tenure at this company is probably going to be pretty short.

Speaker 1: 36:15

Dear subordinate, but also some of the intangible things. Do people feel that you are genuinely accessible? I mean, you have leaders all the time talking about their quote unquote open door policy and yet nobody's walking through that door because nobody wants to be around them. So how relaxed and how free is the exchange between you and your team members, your subordinates? I know that in today's I don't know happier and more individualized society that we tend to live in, that this notion of having a power structure, you know, superior subordinate relationship is somewhat unpopular, but the reality in many organizations is that, yeah, there's a power structure, so we might as well deal with it. So if your subordinates are tense and tight and everything has to be sort of organized talking points and they're not willing to speak in a free and open, extemporaneous manner. They're not able to have those conversations that just flow.

Speaker 1: 37:36

And you notice that across more than one, I guess subordinate, I mean, if it's just one, there might be some sort of one off situation going on there, but if you notice it being more of a pattern, it's probably you so, to start with, collect information and then, based on what that information is telling you, you can start to look at okay, yeah, why might I be resorting to yelling? Oftentimes, at least from what I've seen with my clientele, it's when they feel pressured either a time pressure or something is extremely like a high ticket value item, meaning they've dumped a lot of resources into some sort of project or they're receiving pressure from the board, since a number of my clients are CEOs, but you can substitute board of directors or boss but when there's pressure applied, that is often where it is that people start to get kind of reactive and forceful. So you can begin to ask yourself, okay, why I've identified that these are my you know one, two, three, whatever biggest pressure points. For instance, just to make this more tangible, let's say it's pressure from the boss. Whether the boss is an individual or a board of directors doesn't matter. So what are the commonly associated messages or inner messages that come with pressure from the boss? Well, for starters, is my job safe? And it's not just the job, it's my ability to provide for my family. It's my ability to think of myself as a winner instead of a loser who gets fired.

Speaker 1: 39:35

Oftentimes, people view their ability to retain their job as a direct measure of their success, and I get it. But I would sort of offer a challenge in there that sometimes we have disagreements about the vision of how to move forward and that there are often things that are so far beyond in this particular case I'm talking about a CEO that I'm thinking of but are so far beyond what the CEO can control that sometimes it is bad luck. I know everyone likes to think oh, if I'm smart enough and I'm dedicated enough and I'm hardworking enough, then I will completely circumvent any impact of bad luck, bad circumstance, and that's unfortunately not true. There are times when things stack up against you, things that are totally beyond your control. One lesson from my own experience was when I was in combat in Iraq and there were guys who were amazing operators, tremendously proficient, just top shelf operators, and they died. They were killed in combat through no fault of their own, and I survived, not because I was better than them, but because I was lucky. There was no tangible difference in how I operated versus how they operated. I didn't make a choice and say, oh hey, you should be over here with me because this is where it's safe. No, we were all doing basically the same thing and they were unlucky and I was lucky.

Speaker 1: 41:31

Now, the more spiritual implication behind all this is that there are times when the universe stacks up against us and causes us to quote unquote fail in an endeavor because it is connected to a deeper, more powerful lesson that we are most likely not going to learn any other way. And that is another element of being a powerful versus a forceful leader is being able to see what are the deeper implications, what are the deeper patterns that are going on in my team, in my organization, in myself. And can I see that? Or am I going to just blindly, reactively, stay locked onto this path that, somewhere along the way, I decided was the way, and I'm going to just try to smash everybody into this path that I've been decided a long time ago was the way, or can you begin to recognize? Hey, maybe vision changes over time and this is certainly not going to be a daily conversation. I think if you introduce something like that it's going to create way too much churn. But I don't know.

Speaker 1: 42:45

Half yearly, yearly For an organization, is that too frequently to reevaluate the vision and redetermine whether you're connected to that vision or whether there's something that the marketplace or the economy or whatever has been sort of communicating back to you as to? Oh, maybe we need to pivot a little bit here. In your personal life is annually or bi-annually or I don't know some sort of other major chapter headings in your existence the right cadence at which to ask yourself some penetrating questions about what you want out of this experience, this experience called life, whether it's the professional side of things or the personal side of things. These are some of the deeper explorations that you can go through if you do recognize that you're more tapped into force than power. And then, of course, asking yourself OK, if I were interested in being a operating more from a position of power than I am force, how do I tap myself into a deeper level of confidence or a deeper groundedness in what I feel inside, my own worth, my own value, my own contribution. And then how am I able to go out amongst my team members, amongst the people in my life, and let that exude from me without having to try to again smash somebody into being on the path? That I think that I've calculated is the way. So frequently, when I see somebody who is not deeply connected, grounded and confident in where they fit, how they fit and the value that they bring, that is when they tend to rely more on force, on authority.

Speaker 1: 45:07

Years ago I came across an article that was talking about different types of authority. You have role authority or formal authority, meaning that you're at a certain place in the hierarchy and therefore there are certain powers that are invested in you. You can fire people, you can hire them, you have budgetary control, p&l control, etc. Etc. And also responsibility. There's technical authority. Oh, we listen to that person, even though they are much, much, much lower ranking than we are, because they know the answer.

Speaker 1: 45:46

And there's also charismatic authority, when people follow you even though you technically don't have any authority in the organization, but they follow you because well, partly because they like you, but also because they have seen something in you I don't know. Sometimes it's a calmness, sometimes it's a pronounced willingness and dedication to taking care of the group, really caring for the group, whether it shows up on an individual one-on-one basis or whether it shows up collectively. How does it just come out naturally, organically, in your language, what you choose to focus on, or perhaps, better said, instinctively, what you focus on? There are a couple other forms of authority out there, but ultimately, this notion of charismatic authority Are people. Do people gravitate to you? And if they don't, what is fracturing your sense of confidence in your own place, your own contribution, your own value? How would you address that if you wanted to be more engaged in being a powerful leader versus a forceful leader? All right, I'm going to cut it there. Hopefully this was helpful for you.

Speaker 1: 47:22

I do my best to kind of tie both theory and concept into practical application, like what can you actually do? I know that so much of this coachy stuff can be very esoteric and feel, I don't know, nebulous and without borders sometimes. And well, what do I do? And just recognize that that discomfort is pretty normal and I struggle with it myself when I'm working with a coach. Is that sometimes like, oh God, okay, I have this concept and I get it, or I have a sense, but what do I do about it? And we actually benefit from that struggle, from that tension of trying to turn theory into practice. All too often, when people want to shortcut straight into practice without having really gotten a grip on concept and theory, they often fuck up the application. And it's often it's the wrestling with, the grappling with the theory, the concept, that allow us to put practice into effective action.

Speaker 1: 48:42

Anyway, enough on that. If you are enjoying the show, I would love it If you would like follow, smash whatever thumbs up button happens to be on whatever app you're using and, more importantly, share it. Pick one person Doesn't have to be the perfect person. Pick one and say, hey, I listened to this and it made me think of you, and I think that we could have a really interesting conversation around this once you listen to it. And I think we would benefit from challenging each other, maybe challenging Sean and his assertions, so that we can be more thoughtful and more effective in how we run our business or how we live our life and, until next time, take care of each other.