Laurel Didn’t Ease In… She Went All In on Turkeys, Deer & Ducks Year One

Turkey season turns us all back into rookies, and Laurel makes it clear why that challenge is exactly the point. We talk mentors, mistakes, and the kind of hunting community that helps more people get outside and stick with it.
• why turkeys are addictive and why run and gun works
• how Laurel starts hunting in college with mentors
• building Sisterhood Of The Hunt to connect women hunters
• why the outdoors is more than harvesting animals
• first turkey adrenaline and learning to manage the moment
• calling strategy and why silence can mean they are coming
• bowhunting turkeys vs shotgun ethics and recovery
• coyotes predators and pressure changing turkey behavior
• learning deer bowhunting through cameras weather and patterns
• handling early success then resetting goals
• waterfowl hunting as teamwork and an easier on ramp
• dealing with social media judgment and owning what you do not know
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Transcript

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Cold Open And Welcome

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Everyone has a moment you realize the show is for the one stories for religious stories. This is more than a podcast. This is a start of something real. Let's chase it.

SPEAKER_02 1:02

Well, welcome back, everyone. And this week we got another great guest for you guys. Pretty happy and and proud to announce our guest, Laurel. Welcome to the welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_05 1:15

Thanks for having me. Excited to be on here.

SPEAKER_02 1:18

Yeah, no, we're we're we're really excited to have you on. And you know, really to start out, because we're just in that time frame, and you you're just telling us, you know, uh before we got on, is it's turkey season, you're gonna be heading out to to Wisconsin pretty pretty soon. So and you know, your your your caption there is you know, look at it right there. It tells tells you everything that that you need to know. So uh is is that your number one, like it is are turkeys like your number one like animal that you like to chase?

Turkey Obsession And Run And Gun

SPEAKER_05 1:49

Uh yeah, if I had to pick one, it'd be turkeys for sure. And that's kind of what got me started in the outdoors, so that'll always be my fave.

SPEAKER_00 1:57

Oh man, look you're gonna help me out today, then.

SPEAKER_02 2:02

Yeah, where yeah, it's turkeys for me, and you know, I I love hunting just in general, and like I got some buddies that are like some stone coat stone cold killers when it comes to turkeys, but great deer hunters, like they love they deer hunt all, but they're like always like, yeah, no, if I can only do one, it would be turkeys, it'd be turkeys, and it's like I I I haven't got I don't know, maybe it's because I haven't had a a Tom gobbling 10-20 yards in front of me yet. Like, I haven't gotten that full like experience, you know. Maybe that's exactly what I'm missing. But what was it for you that really got you hooked on on turkeys? Obviously, I think you said just what you started with and everything like that. But what was it about turkeys that really like so solidified it for you?

SPEAKER_05 2:52

Um, I mean, everything plays into it. Like, you gotta be quiet, you got you gotta be still, you can't be seen. I mean, and also I can't sit still for very long. I mean, when I'm bow hunting, I kind of have to, but um, for turkeys, you can kind of make a move if you need to. Like, you can get up and chase them, you can sit. There's like a bunch of different ways you can go after them. So keeps it interesting for me.

SPEAKER_02 3:18

So uh I do love the run and gun style for for turkeys. I will say, like, when I'm turkey hunting, you know, I can't just sit there in a blind. And for people that do it, that's that's no, I can't sit, I can sit still deer hunting and bear hunting and stuff like that. But I don't know when it's turkeys, it's like I don't feel comfortable just sitting there and waiting for birds to you know to come to me. Like I like being active and and moving and like you can cover five, six, seven miles, like we cover like a lot of land when we're turkey hunting and stuff like that. So I get that whole aspect as as well, uh, that you're talking about right there.

SPEAKER_05 3:57

Yeah. I mean, if I'm turkey hunting, I'm gonna be against a tree. I'm not gonna be in a blind.

SPEAKER_02 4:03

I got you, right? I I I a hundred percent agree with with with that right there. But um, so every every guest, right? You know, they give us a backstory and everything like that, you know. Uh, for those of you don't who don't know who you are, you know, why don't you give them a quick uh introduction, real quick?

SPEAKER_05 4:20

Sure.

From College To First Hunts

SPEAKER_05 4:21

So I'm from North Carolina. I didn't start hunting until I was in college. Um, I went to school for agriculture, and so most of my friends were guys and they all hunted and came from farming backgrounds, so they had access to good hunting land. Um, so I got started in turkey hunting, like I said previously. Um, and then I kind of just fell in love with it the very first time I tried and was grateful for good mentors and people who helped introduce me to the sport, but then I kind of took it and ran with it. Um and then I met my best friend JC. She lives in North Carolina now, but she's from Texas. I actually met her through Facebook and we I messaged her and asked her if she wanted to go on a women's duck hunt with me because I didn't know any other women that like to hunt. And so she said yes, and we didn't know each

Building Sisterhood Of The Hunt

SPEAKER_05 5:13

other. We went off to Arkansas and killed some ducks, and then we were like, we should like do this for other women, like connect other women, like we got connected through social media. And we started Sisterhood of the Hunt, which is where we plan women's trips across the United States, and we do everything from like duck hunting to turkey hunting to bow fishing to noodling, I mean, inshore fishing to dove hunting. I mean, we do it all. Um, and we're basically just working to connect women who like the same thing hunting, um, who don't necessarily have a way to get in the outdoors or find other women who like to hunt too.

SPEAKER_02 5:54

So no, I I I I I love that. And it's something that I I talk about all the time. You know, we we really try to to hit this on the head because like hunting is already looked at as you know, it's not in a great light, you know what I mean? And you know, for for me and everything like that, I always get the thing like, oh, like a it's a white person's thing or a white man's thing, and and everything like that. But it's one of those things like everyone, it's for everyone, but everyone should be welcome into the outdoors. And you know, something especially for me that I've noticed since probably like COVID is the amount of you know, women that have got into it, the different, you know, ethnicities that that have gotten into it. You know, we know a couple guys from uh Jersey City, uh the back damn productions crew, and they're all you know, um just different backgrounds and and everything like that. And they tried to bring all those inner city people into the outdoors, they take them out and do all these things. So, like I think it's that's no better way, uh, you know, is to setting up something like that and to get people into the outdoors, and you know, it it's something that everyone can do. And then, you know, look at yourself, like you this wasn't what you're you probably thought growing up anywhere close or remotely, what you what you thought you'd be doing, and it and everything like that. So, and and and now look at you now, it's this is what you do, and you love what you what you do.

SPEAKER_05 7:25

Yeah, I mean, I was always outdoorsy growing up, but I never hunted. I and it really just takes someone to invite you or to mentor you, and then most of the time, if you if you got a passion for it, you're hooked, and if it's not for you, it's not for you, you know.

SPEAKER_02 7:41

Yeah, and if there's if there's oh go go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 7:44

I was just gonna say, Laura, that Laurel, that kind of just reminds me, and just real briefly, you know, as we were just talking before the show started, um, with how you know you're originally from Wisconsin. And I originally was born just outside of Chicago, didn't grow up in a hunting family. Long story short, when I met my wife, I wanted to get out of there. She didn't want to raise a family in in outside of the big city. So she grew up in Iowa. We moved to Wisconsin, and in my job, I met uh an education coordinator at a hospital. We hit it off. I saw all the pictures and mounts and to have what he had in his office. I'm like, God, what does he have at home? And he literally asked me if I had ever bowl hunted. And I like I just said, I said, no, I didn't come from a hunting family like my uncle Pheasant hunted, but that was about it. So this is almost 21 years ago. And uh from that moment, like you said, like a mentor or whatever, we became instant buddies, and him and his brother are the ones who taught me everything, archery. And like I said, going on 21 years now, and I've never looked back, like outside of my wife and my daughters. Like, I like like we all do, we sleep or wake and whatever bow hunting or hunting, just anything. So that's kind of interesting, just how many people that's similar to.

SPEAKER_05 9:09

Yeah, it only takes one person to invite someone else who's never done it before.

SPEAKER_02 9:14

Yeah, yeah, no, and and and that's usually like you know, with you and for other people, and that's usually the case. Like,

Mentors Inclusion And The 99 Percent

SPEAKER_02 9:21

you get so many people of like when I when I talk to people that are so intrigued by it or so curious, but then once they actually see just taking a walk in in nature and wildlife, and you know, getting to experience and see the things like I tell people like us hunters, you know, uh outdoorsmen, fish, whatever you want. We are seeing things that no one really gets to see. Like, have you have you ever really got into the woods and actually got to watch the sun, the sunrise or the sunset, or you know, some of my favorite stories is watching like hawks. Like, I I had a hawk and an owl down in Delaware when I was hunting fighting like each other. Like, and I've never like I'm like, wow, this is like Nat Geo. Like you're actually and you're you're literally right there, and it's like, you know, I tell it, it's not about killing, you know. It's yes, killing's a part of it, but it's the one percent, it's everything else that goes into it. And and that's what get people really hooked on is is you know, the 99% of the rest of it. Don't get me wrong, I love the killing part. Like, I can do it, you know what I mean. Not everybody, not everybody can, you know what I mean? But you know, the 99% of what we do it attracts people and gets people like pretty hooked on on you know everything that we like to do here.

SPEAKER_05 10:42

Yeah, and I mean, not every hunt is ever the same, not one hunt is just like the other. So I go on a tons of waterfowl hunts every year, but not one is the same, and every sunrise is different. So it's just like you're out there and you're like, wow, I'm never gonna see this exact picture ever again, or I'm never gonna get this exact tornado of birds ever again, or you might see a bobcat on your deer hunt or something, and it's just like wow, like the people at my work don't see this, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:13

Yeah, and it's and it's like you tell people the stories about what you've seen. I mean, you know, to your like I I remember a rud hunt, um, it was October 30th, like I don't know, eight, nine years ago. I had a small barred owl literally land on a branch, like no kidding, like four feet from my face. Jeez, had no idea it was there, did what it just sat and didn't move for a couple minutes and then flew away. But like to to the people who are in the outdoors and live it, like you just said, Laura, like that is something that those are the stories that you pass on to share with your friends or whatever. But for the people who aren't in the sport, and that's why it's so awesome to get people into hunting like myself 21 years ago, they don't understand like the the significance, like Mike just said, like, yeah, we all love harvesting animals, whatever you're hunting. But for me, like it doesn't matter what I'm hunting, every single hunt, whether it goes good or it goes bad, I take a learning experience from every single hunt.

SPEAKER_05 12:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:23

No, definitely. So

First Turkey Rush And Mistakes

SPEAKER_02 12:25

what do you what do you remember from your from your first ever turkey hunt? You know, your your first ever hunt. What what are some of the things that stuck out and that you remember? Um and also like now you look back and you're like, oh my God, I can't believe I, you know, I I made these mistakes or I I did this and and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_05 12:49

Um well the first time turkey hunting, I feel like was the biggest adrenaline rush of my life. I think for everyone, the first time they hunt and are successful, it's probably the most adrenal the biggest adrenaline rush they'll ever have in their hunting career. I mean, not to say that you lose like excitement, but the first time is just like the craziest.

SPEAKER_02 13:10

I think you I think you start to manage your adrenaline, like those adrenaline rushes a little a little better. Did we lose her?

SPEAKER_05 13:18

Sorry, someone was calling me.

SPEAKER_02 13:20

Oh no, no worries, no worries.

SPEAKER_05 13:22

I'm back though.

SPEAKER_02 13:23

Um you I don't know what what you heard, um, but basically it is I think we we better start to uh manage our adrenaline rush. That's what I think changes. You know, you you are like, all right, take a deep breath. You you know this, you go through the motions. Your first time, you're not going through the motion. Everything kind of like hits you so fast. That's like the one big thing about those ever first. I think whatever animal you're chasing for the first time, you could be an experienced hunter, but if you've never hunted bears before or you never hunted waterfowl before or turkey before, when you go to switch that to that new animal, it's a brand new process all over. And it's like a brand new adrenaline rush all over.

SPEAKER_05 14:07

Yeah, yeah. And back to what I was saying was it was opening weekend in North Carolina for turkeys. It was Easter weekend, I remember. And the first morning I shot my first turkey, which was a Jake, which I I remember that hunt pretty well, and it was super fun, and I was super happy with it, even though I didn't really understand like, oh, this is like a younger turkey. I was still like so happy with it. But and then I remember the next morning we went out turkey hunting again, and I just remember it happening so quick, like it was two toms, and they came and beat up the decoy, and I probably shot him less than 10 yards, and my wad actually got stuck in his body. But that was at the point too where I was so fresh that I was like, I was like, I'm aiming at the body because I'm gonna get this thing down. Like, I'm not gonna miss, you know? But after I've been doing it for a couple of years, I'm like, yeah, I'm not shooting a Jake, but I don't look down on other people who do, especially like as you're for your first turkey, or like if you want to shoot a smaller deer for your first deer, like if you're happy with it, like go ahead. If it makes you happy, do it. Who cares what everyone else thinks, you know?

SPEAKER_00 15:17

100%.

SPEAKER_02 15:19

Yeah, I still were you like no, go ahead, Mike. No, no, no, no, no. I didn't have anything good to say.

SPEAKER_00 15:26

I was just gonna say, like, one of one of my first uh turkey hunts, I'll never forget. You may remember this area, Laurel, but I used to lease land for a number of years with uh one of the brothers of the fellas who taught me how to bow hunt. And uh, we leased land out in Bear Valley out in southwestern Wisconsin, uh near Richland Center, which is known as like the driftless country, and just you know, huge high bluffs with all the timber, and then down in the down in the bowls is where all the agar. So it's just phenomenal uh habitat for for monster whitetails. But for one of my first turkey hunts, we um this property that we leased, if you could just visualize for everybody listening, kind of like a thimble, and it was basically like a logging road all the way down, and at the top, it was probably like 200 yards wide. And during the rut, for anybody that bow hunts, that's where the big boys are gonna be running, you know, looking for the estrus does. Well, that's where we set up um for the first time I had ever turkey hunted. So, like we had said at the beginning of the show, the unbelievable sunrise, we were both sitting against a tree. And my buddy that was with me, I mean, he had been hunting everything since probably he was seven, eight years old. And the one thing that sticks with me about turkey hunting that I will never forget, and I've never experienced it since that first hunt, there were two toms that were strutting back and forth, probably about 60 yards from us. And there was a hen that had, I don't know how far it was, but we could see the toms going back and forth and to feel, and I didn't even know what it was at first, but when they the toms both started drumming, and I could literally 60 yards away in my body, I could feel that vibration. That was one of the coolest things I've ever seen in hunting.

SPEAKER_03 17:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:30

Yeah, but I'm I'm missing, I'm missing that whole thing, and and that's the thing. Like, I I've been I like I've heard Tom's gobble and draw, like I've I've done all the, but not I don't think close enough. Like I've had birds come in range and but just get completely silent, you know.

SPEAKER_05 17:49

Um well that's when they're coming.

SPEAKER_02 17:52

That's when that's when they're coming.

SPEAKER_05 17:54

That's where you should get your gun up.

SPEAKER_02 17:56

So this is the funny, like, this is like my first, I've only been turkey hunting now. I think this will be year three. So I think of seriously, have only done it two two years. So this is my first year. I think this was hunt like one number two of the year or or something like that. And we're set up perfectly. We have birds just gobbling all over, and we get this Tom coming from behind us. But where I was sitting at the edge of the field, I didn't mean to, but I actually sat in like a little ditch, kind of like my back is against a tree, but it goes, it's going like this, and then it dips down. And I was sitting in the in the dip, and this bird, he wasn't far of me, and he was right, and I could just barely see him, but I couldn't move at all. Like I had my gun, but because I was sitting in the dip, if I wanted to shoot him, I would have had to like move myself up a little bit, and I was like, and my buddy, he he was right behind me. He was like, After the bird left, he's like, Why didn't you shoot? I was like, dude, I hadn't realized, like, I thought I was in the perfect spot, but once that bird came, I realized I wasn't in a good spot at all. Like, I needed to be like up a little bit, and I couldn't, I didn't want to risk moving up and just completely blowing the hunt because, like I said, we we were just having we had so much action, like it was absolutely crazy. And you know, when it was just one of those things, like it's an adrenaline rush. Like, I I'm not gonna like I love it. I do, I do love it, but it hasn't gotten me yet where it's I could push it into like my I don't even think it's not in my top three. It goes deer, bear, and waterfowl for me. You know what I mean? But turkey, it's I'm hoping it gets it gets up there, especially when I get something like one of those experiences. Because I I want to be a full-breaded like turkey killer, like these guys, like I want to be able to to call correctly and know when to call and everything like that. But it's a whole new learning experience. I'm a rookie all over again, and that's the thing I gotta keep reminding myself is I'm a rookie when it comes to to turkey hunting.

SPEAKER_05 19:58

Like well, just from looking at y'all's stuff, I can tell y'all are big white-tailed people for sure.

SPEAKER_02 20:04

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Big, very big white-tail hunters. Um, and then us being here in Jersey, big black bear hunters. Um, you know, we're that that's our our our bread and butter, and then you know, a whole on passion, which we'll we'll definitely get into with you as well, is is the waterfowl. Like I've become obsessed with with waterfowl hunting at as well, too.

SPEAKER_00 20:27

So um yeah, hey Laura, one of one of the things I I kind of want to ask, so I I probably did it the absolute unorthodox way. Like what

Calling Silence And Bow Challenges

SPEAKER_00 20:36

the first time is the story I just told a minute ago. I had a shotgun with me with my buddy. The past three years, um, I've been in a blind on our good friends on a farm where I do a lot of my rut hunting for deer. Uh, and I've strictly had my bow with me for turkey. Obviously, hunting with a bow, as you know, it it changes everything in terms of the challenge and whatever, but I just I thrive on that challenge. Now I started, I bring my bow with me and my shotgun. So I'm kind of curious, have you ever um bow hunted for Turkey yet? Are you still shotgun? And um I guess my biggest thing would be in my question to you would be um in terms of calling, like how much is too much and how much is too lit too little? Because I'm in that where I think I call too much.

SPEAKER_05 21:38

Yeah, yeah, I'd say I still probably call too much too. But um, when the turkey gets quiet, that's when you need to stop calling, really. Um, but that's funny you brought up the bow hunting because I was just at the bow shop today because I'm planning on bow hunting uh in Texas and up in Minnesota with my friend Leah Anderson. I don't know if y'all know her, but she can.

SPEAKER_04 22:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 22:02

Um, so I prefer to use a shotgun for turkeys. I just love to like smoke their heads off.

SPEAKER_04 22:09

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 22:10

Um, and I've had bad experiences with bow hunting turkeys in the past, just with like I think because if you have a really heavy draw weight on your bow and you're shooting a turkey at like 10 to 15 to 20 yards, I mean it that arrow is not in the air for very long before it's going through that turkey. And it's going through really fast because I mean my bow is set at like 50 pounds. Um, and then I was using expandable broadheads, and I had I've shot a few turkeys in the past with a bow, never recovered them, and like videoed it and everything, and you can see the arrow. I don't even think the broadhead had time to expand because it looks like it just slides right through the turkey and the turkey runs away like it's fine. But you watch the video, you watch the video, and you see the arrow go right through him, like right through his wing bone and everything. And we ended up tracking the turkey after that. Found him laying, and I think I cut his wing so he couldn't really fly very well. Found him laying in the woods, and he was trying to hide. And I was like, yes, and I spoke to Tsunami, like took off. But just I mean, I prefer to use a shotgun just because they're gonna be really close. I mean, it's more ethical. Um for turkeys, it's tough to bow hunt, but that it's kudos to those who do it.

SPEAKER_00 23:34

I mean, yeah, it's hard. I mean, I I've gotten so frustrated the past three years, like um, you know, I've already been thinking. I actually was just at our friend's farm yesterday, and uh I had gotten a new Winchester SXP long beard 20 gauge, and uh I sent the boondocks team pictures of, and I think it was like five shells I put through there, and my buddy who owns the farm came out and he's like, Yep, that thing's dead. And uh, but it's so tough. I mean, to come back from, and I would I would sit, you know, obviously, as we and all very different than the rough for deer hunting, but you know, I had more coyotes coming in to the diaphragm call than I did the turkeys, and and I could see them up on the uh wood line to the south, probably about 225 yards. But and a lot of people in Wisconsin, uh, the past couple years had commented the same thing. Like that for some reason the toms were just not responding to calls, and it didn't matter if you had a Jake there and then just a hen, they just would not leave where they were, and it was like, God, it I had a pistol on me, and I I drew and I was gonna try to shoot the coyote. And the second I hit the safety on it, and boom, the thing was in the woods. But um, that's I it's just I would say turkey is is gotta be, in my opinion, one of the hardest animals to haunt and be successful.

SPEAKER_05 25:09

I think they're either really smart or they're really stupid. And I mean the same way with deer. Um, but the big the biggest thing that I would say is like once those those toms are henned up, it's almost impossible to get them to come to you. Um, so if you if your morning plan doesn't work up work out and you don't connect with them right off the roost, I mean you might as well wait till 10 a.m. or noon to go back out there and try and when he's by himself, like he's looking for love. Yeah, he's already hung with his ladies. Now he's going to look for some more ladies, you know. Um, and it's also different in every state you hunt, like these southern birds, they they get fired up pretty early.

Predators Pressure And Season Timing

SPEAKER_05 25:53

Um, and it's our in my opinion, our season starts too late. So they're like they get real quiet once they're already all bred. And um, I like hunting up north in the Michigan, Wisconsin area just because I think their seasons are timed a little bit better to where you can have a little more success calling them and everything like that.

SPEAKER_02 26:13

Okay. My my buddy, uh, my guys who are they're they're the turkey expert. I get all my knowledge from them. They say the same thing about Jersey of like it's a little too late where most of them already hend up, and it gets very it's a it's a very difficult, difficult thing there. But um, you know, one thing what what Connor said and everything like that, and you know, I don't know what it's like in North Carolina, like over here we have a very big coyote population, especially in West Jersey. So we had this piece out that we're hunting, kind of the same thing. You would get maybe one call, and that was it. After that, the birds would be silent the whole entire day because the minute they they yelped, gobbled, whatever, coyotes would be just on them like that. Yeah, you know, and so they just they just know just to to be quiet. So, of course, that makes everything very difficult. It it makes hunting uh turkeys even even more difficult, and you know, to me, I think turkeys is the hardest animal to hunt so far, you know. But it's yet again because I uh there's just I'm still a rookie at it, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 27:21

You know, and also I think it depends on, like I said, what state you're from, because if you talk to someone from out west, they're like turkeys are the stupidest birds ever, but those marriages like are totally different from hunting an Eastern in the woods, you know?

SPEAKER_04 27:35

Yeah, um, but yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:39

So Laura, how long, like like when you're turkey hunting wherever you are, was Wisconsin, Michigan, North Carolina, Tennessee, like how long, like if and that's my my plan this year, I'm gonna do all sitting against sit against the tree. Um, a couple times I've I've got a couple blinds set up that I will you know be focused on Bo, but how long? Like after like the turkeys will come off the roost, yes, like you said, they may be gobbling for a while before they come down, but like how long will you sit at a specific set before if you're running gunning, like you had said at the beginning of the show, like how long will you sit before you're like, all right, time to move?

SPEAKER_05 28:22

I honestly really don't give it that long, and it depends on a hunt, on what the how the hunt's going. Um, but most of the time, if it's not going the way that I thought it was gonna go, like probably 45 minutes to an hour or maybe even less. Like um, I'm actually not in North Carolina anymore. I'm in Nashville, and it's it sounds like y'all have a lot of predators up there, but coincidentally enough, like every hunt turkey hunt I've ever been on where I've seen a coyote, like I've not had a successful turkey hunt and I don't hear them gobbling, and it's like almost impossible, like because they know they're they're the coyotes are there, they're not gonna talk. Um, so if the turkeys aren't gobbling and they're not fired up and communicating back to you, then it's almost impossible to hunt them.

SPEAKER_00 29:11

Yeah, and and that's the thing that's always been strange to me. And Mike, I don't know if if if you have any thoughts on this, but here in Wisconsin, um late January till mid to late March is peak breeding season for coyotes. So if you think about like white-tailed deer, those bucks, once they've been chasing for a couple months, they're going towards back to food, they're run down, they gotta, they gotta put the uh the weight and the calories on for the winter. But I also, and and maybe I'm ignorant to it and I'm wrong, but like I that's why I thought it was strange so often during turkey hunting when I see the coyotes more than I do the turkeys, because their their rut has just wound down at the end of March. So I've got um second week of turkey this year in Wisconsin, which is I think it's like April 22nd. So that's always been strange to me. Now, again, I guess it's common sense. Yeah, they've they're worn down and they're looking for food, but it's just bizarre to me because it's like peak time for turkeys, and maybe maybe that like you said, maybe that's just their defense mechanism is they're just if they're not henned up, they're just not moving because they know those coyotes are close. I it it's just it messes with me the past three years.

SPEAKER_05 30:35

Yeah, I in Kentucky. I remember one morning calling in a coyote and it came in from behind me, and I just remember it was less than it was less than 10 yards from me, and I turned around, I was like, dang, that's loud. I look back and I was like, and he looked at me and we kind of stared and then he ran off. But I was like, Well, this turkey hunt's worthless. Because when I see a coyote, I'm like, yeah, there's no way those turkeys know that coyotes, they're loud, they're not very sneaky. I mean, so I just gave it up. I was saw that and I was kicked it in for the day, you know.

SPEAKER_02 31:13

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's one of those things when you for us here in Jersey and stuff like that. Like, if you see if you see a coyote during your deer hunt, your hunt, like I your hunt's pretty much still good. Like you're you're fine. Like it may suck, like that 30 minutes, like it may suck, but like usually we still see see deer and everything like that.

SPEAKER_05 31:32

But with turkeys, it's like yeah, definitely not with turkeys.

SPEAKER_02 31:36

It's done. Like, what will help help us? Like, it depends where you're hunting in in Jersey. Like the cool thing about Jersey for everyone who doesn't know, it depends where you are in the state. You know, uh, we have ags, we have you know, big woods, we have we have all these different things. So if you're actually in one of those big bean fields or cornfields and everything like that, you if you see a coyote, is those birds the the problem is the birds are just gonna chill in the middle of the field. They literally go and park themselves in the in the big field, and they won't move until they you know they'll they'll slowly work their way maybe in the opposite direction. But besides that, like your hunt is kind of blown no matter what. Like if you see the coyote, they already know they move to the middle of the field, and there's no you're not calling them in. You're not you're not even going to chase them because there's nowhere you can go.

SPEAKER_05 32:27

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 32:29

So um another like so when did when did you and because this is our bread and butter, when when did you start deer hunting?

Learning Deer Hunting With Data

SPEAKER_05 32:39

Um I started deer hunting the same year I started turkey hunting. Oh, so you get it all to but I started with a rifle, and I will say in North Carolina the deer aren't very big. So when you see like a six-pointer or eight-pointer, they're skinny there, they're not thick, they're not really wide, their bodies are small, so it's a little tough to get excited over the deer out there. But I mean, I still got excited over it because I was learning. But um, I didn't pick up a bow until I moved out here about three years ago. Um, didn't know anyone, had a lot of time on my hands, and so I was like, I really want to kill a deer with a bow. And I started setting up cameras, getting permission, uh, putting cameras on family land and on the land I got permission on. And then there were good bucks on these spots that I had. And I was like, gee, whiz, like if I kill one of these deer, like my North Carolina friends are gonna be like, what the heck? Because I just picked up a bow. Um, basically was teaching myself and asking everyone I knew for help who had already bow hunted, um, which is a huge help. I mean, finding an archery shop that can help you. And um, I had a lot of friends in the industry who are really big bow hunters and they helped me, like siding in my bow and everything like that. And once you get the hang of it, I mean, really, it just takes practice. Um and coincidence, I don't believe in coincidences. I think it's this was all God. Um, the deer that I was watching, I was studying his patterns, I was watching the moon phases, I was watching the barometric pressure, um, all that, and just taking notes. And I didn't even hunt the whole week of opener, bow opener in Kentucky. I because it wasn't right. The conditions weren't right. And I was I there was this one day I was at work on Friday, and I was like, tonight is like gonna be a perfect, like perfect wind, moon phase is right, everything's right, pressure's right. Um, and I just went home. I mean, I drove two hours because my stand's about two hours from where I work, and I just went for an afternoon sit. I mean, it was starting to get pretty late, and then I saw the young bucks come in. And normally when they're there, he wasn't there on my camera. So I was like, damn, like I timed it wrong. Like, he's not gonna come. And then I was watching them and focused on them and videoing them, and I looked to the side and he's walking like 15 yards right under me. And I had my phone on the on this hand, and I was like, oh god, and I've like slid my phone in my pocket, and this was the most stressful hunt of my life. Like it really was because this deer, I mean, he's right on the wall behind me, he's right there.

SPEAKER_00 35:30

Oh, awesome.

SPEAKER_05 35:31

He's a 149 and a half, and never, I mean, I had killed a doe with my compound, but this would have been my first buck with a compound, so I was nervous. And I pulled my he, I he no, I never didn't get a shot on him for about 20 minutes because he was chasing off the young bucks and kind of going back and forth, and I didn't have a good broadside shot. It was he was kind of head on at me. And then he came right under my stand and kind of turned broadside at like 12 yards, and I pulled up to shoot him. And my I had been sitting there for four hours already because I wanted to get in there and like be quiet and have them not know I was there. So I was there early, and my arrow had come unknocked when I was fidgeting or something. Never even realized it. Like drew back, and the arrow was like bouncing around, and I was like, I literally was like drawn back, and I was like, Oh my gosh, Laurel, you are stupid. And then I just let down real slow and he didn't see me because the way he was turned, he I don't know, he was focused on the young bucks. And I freaking knocked the arrow as quick as I I was like, he's either gonna see me or he's not, so I might as well just try to do it as fast as I can. Knocked the arrow. I mean, redrew and like took a really deep breath and double-unged him and watched him run not even 20 15 to 20 yards, and the sun was going down, and I watched him fall, like his shadow fall in the sunrise. And I was like, there's no way that just happened. And that was the first the first day I ever sat that year, too.

SPEAKER_02 37:13

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_05 37:15

I was like, I can't believe I'm I mean, I just shot my target book, and like what do I do now?

SPEAKER_02 37:22

Right. It's there there's so much about deer hunting, right? And you you break down that you know, this story, and it's first of all, you you do everything that you're supposed to do, you know, your the wind, the you know, the pressure, everything like that. And it's it's one of those things with trail cameras, and even uh I do it all the time too. It's like sometimes we overthink the trail cam pictures like, oh, like whenever you know the young guns are out, he's not showing up, right? Yeah, but it it's it it's always like now looking back, it's he probably does show up, he just doesn't show up on camera. Like he's usually probably just not far, and I love how it works out because this happens to me all the time, and usually doesn't happen in the the way that that you have it where you end up with they with the bow kill and everything like that. Like I'll be filming like these these other deer and completely concentrating on on you know those deer, and you know, like you said, your hitless buck or you know, a doe or something like that is like walking right next to you, and usually I always get caught. I you know, I always get caught and get blown at and everything, and I'm always just like, Jesus Christ, like come on, and I have to tell myself, like, come on, Mike, you gotta stop like just slowly focusing on the deer that you see in the out in the distance or you're filming and everything like that. Like, you still gotta pay attention no matter no matter how many years I've been deer hunting, it happens every single year. I get sucked in at watching whatever animals I'm watching and they're not watching what's right around me and everything like that. But I mean, that might be one of the best uh stories.

SPEAKER_05 39:05

Like, I mean, I don't know how it could have gotten any better, and I didn't even have to walk alone in the dark in the morning. That's what I was most thankful for.

SPEAKER_00 39:13

Well, just and just listening to your your story, Laura. Like, obviously, when you had the the group of deer, and then the buck was over on your other side. Clearly, you had the absolute perfect wind, yeah. Because to me, that big boy, obviously, he's standing off there for a reason. He's always gonna watch what the younger bucks and what the does are doing, and then he'll come in. But it yeah, it sounds like from that scenario, it had to have been the absolute prime time primo, you know, for you to be able to get a shot off. And yeah, that's an awesome, awesome story.

SPEAKER_02 39:48

I love it, and then getting to watch him drop in the sunset.

SPEAKER_05 39:51

That that is like I mean, that's like poetry or something, right?

SPEAKER_02 39:57

Uh well, that's that's what you see in all those like big YouTube videos now that you watch. Like, it's like when you're watching these videos, like, oh my god, like I can't believe that happened. Like, why do these things not happen to me? Like, you describing it was like, I need now a buck to to fall like that in the sunset, uh, for me. But like, you listen, that that's an absolute that's absolutely incredible.

SPEAKER_05 40:20

I mean, the craziest part about the story too is that he was like a day or maybe a day and a half out of velvet. Um, and in Kentucky, when they shed their velvet, they disappear for like two or three weeks, and they you don't see them. You're like, where did this deer go? And I think that day, the day before, or something, or within the last 12 hours before I had hunted, I saw him on that. I had seen him on my camera, and I was like, He's in the area, like he's back, he's still alive, he just doesn't have velvet. But he has still had blood on his antlers and everything. It was crazy.

SPEAKER_02 40:53

The the time frame of of you hunting, right, in in Kentucky. So it I know generally, so like we hunt Delaware, um, and that starts September 1st for us. I know Kentucky is usually right around there. Like, is this the time of the point? Like, are we early September? We must be early September if his velvet must have just came off. So, like, yeah, when so the season, I think they're like September 1st or something like that, too, as well.

SPEAKER_05 41:20

Yeah, I think for September 1st or and I think I shot him on like September 17th. I mean 16th.

SPEAKER_02 41:28

Okay, hey, my birthday, yeah, but but it was hot, like it was still hot.

SPEAKER_05 41:35

I remember sitting there, and I now that you say about the wind, I don't think there wasn't much of a wind. I mean, it was very stale. I just remember sweating, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:45

Yeah, yeah. Don't don't we all don't we all during the during the early season? That's the one this year was this year was good in early September, but two years ago, I'll never forget. Like, I I hiked out and I was in a bean field September 1st. Not I think it was like 90 degrees with the high humidity, and I was questioning everything that I was doing at that point. And the the worst thing is, so I I hike in with my saddle gear, I got all my sticks and everything like that. And I'm like, all right, like I can't find a tree. Um like there's no good trees in in this area. This is my first year ever hunting hunting down in Delaware. Like, all right, screw it. Let me hike all the way back. I'll go get my ground set up. So I go get a chair, get my ground set up, hike all the way back, get set up, and then I forgot my water. And I was like, all right, let's hike all the way back, back to the truck, got the water, and I I did that like I literally like three or four times. And I remember just sitting there, just like, why am I doing this? Like, I I'm not a heat person, I can't move down south. I can't move, like I can't I can't go to like I can go to Texas on vacation or go hunt for like two days, but I don't know how you know you people down in the south do it. I am dying when it gets hot out. Like, I and hunting, like I'll do it because I love to deer hunt. But I'm always questioning my like all my decisions of like, why am I doing this? Like, and I'm usually sitting there hot, bugs flying all over. I'll see deer. I've never killed a deer in 90 degree weather. Never. I knew I'm hoping it happens, you know, once, you know, coming up, you know, maybe next year or whatever. Hopefully it's not 90 degrees, but like it's just one of those things where it's like, man, why did why do I keep doing it? And yeah, two years ago, we were gonna go to Kentucky, you know, because we wanted to hunt earlier. We're like, we're gonna go, and all my buddies who live out there are hunting, they're like, it's just hot. Like it's it's hot during that time of the year, and it's like I mean, the deer prep is killer too.

SPEAKER_05 43:53

Like, just going in there to check cams, change batteries, and put uh blocks out or anything. I mean, change. Change up your stands, like I come out with ticks back.

SPEAKER_02 44:04

I can imagine. I can imagine. And and and you guys have rattlesnakes too over there.

SPEAKER_05 44:09

Uh no rattlesnakes, but we have no rattlesnakes. Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 44:15

Yeah, I I still remember a couple hunts. Um, yeah, it would have been because you know, middle of September, right around my birthday, every year is when you know boat hunting kicks in in Wisconsin. And I still remember a couple hunts this year. And I think I probably Mike had, you know, sent to the team. Like, I got up on stand, got got settled, got my bow, got my arrow knocked, finally, you know, settled down, and I sprayed the crap out of myself with you know a senseass, and and it it's just literally like per me running off me. And I'm like, I don't even know if this is doing it, but just the smell of it made me feel better. But yeah, like my brother-in-law uh lives down in uh near Charleston, South Carolina, and you know, some of the people he knows down there who are big bow hunters and talk about like if in Laurel, you would know this better. But and I know you're in Tennessee now, but if I remember correctly, like the bow hunting seasons for Whitetail down there in the Carolinas like starts like early August. Is that correct?

SPEAKER_05 45:21

Uh, I can't remember, honestly. I think it's about the same time as like early September.

SPEAKER_02 45:28

Okay. I think it depends. I think it depends on what zone you're what zone you're in. Because I remember uh Joe um from uh OSEO, I think he said something like that. Like they it depends where I think they they get like an August, and it's kind of like floor, like down if you go down to Florida, like I think. Oh yeah, Florida's all west fly, like yeah, they run like all year down there, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:51

Like 98 degrees and going bowl on, like yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 45:56

Um but yeah, so you know, you you go you go from there,

Staying Motivated After Early Success

SPEAKER_02 46:02

right? You're you're you're hunting. I've I've seen you know a couple of the the beautiful butts that that you've shot over the over the years and everything like that, you know. After after that, such a successful hunt, like how did how did deer hunting go like is it is it hard something as being you know more of a a new hunter of having success like that and then also still managing the the downs of hunting too? Not every hunt is perfect, not every hunt you're gonna kill somebody, you know what I mean? And I think that's something that makes a lot of us great is how mentally tough we are when it comes to hunting, you know what I mean? So how how is that for you not growing up in it and always having those you know, those downs or going your first couple years without even seeing stuff? Like I know people that you know in certain states that have don't see deer, you know, or don't see turkey or or something like that, you know, you you had success. So how was it managing those days where where things weren't going well for you?

SPEAKER_05 47:02

Uh honestly, since I had already tasted success, it was a lot easier for me to keep going. Um, I think just like y'all say, y'all haven't caught the turkey itch yet. Um, my best friend JC was just the same way. Like she has tried and tried and tried and tried like for four years. I think just like two years ago, she got her first turkey. And I had hunted with her plenty before then, um, just unsuccessfully. And but she just kept on. I mean, it does get tough to keep going, even especially, I'm sure, when you haven't tasted success. Um, but for me, since I had tasted success, I mean, it was just all the more reason for me to keep going. Um, but I will say, after killing that big buck, um, the year after, I was like, I'm I'm not killing nothing smaller than him. Like, and then I was telling, then like at the end of the year season, I was like, if I keep telling myself that I might never kill another deer, because like that's a good deer. And then the season after that, there was a decent buck that kept coming consistently. I ended up shooting him because I was like, I have to pull the trigger. Like, he was a good buck. He wasn't bigger than him, but I was still proud of him and I still had um, but it is tough to like keep going up or keep setting a higher goal for yourself in the outdoors, um, especially when you've had such great success right off the bat.

SPEAKER_02 48:34

No, I I I I think I I agree with that. I like for me, and it's cool hearing that from from you, you know, you're able to keep pushing with this success. Like for me, I I've always felt like I struggled in my first like couple years, I was the first one in my family to bow hunt and everything like that. And I I struggled. Like I it was I was still learning this, you know, and everything like that. And I I wasn't finding it depends how you measure success, right? And I'm not talking like I was getting on deer and stuff like that. So I measured that as as successful hunts and everything like that, but not not kill not killing anything, right? And now I look back of you know, when I have struggle and stuff like that, it's like all right, like I've been through this before, so like it's it's no problem now, you know what I mean? You know you're gonna get hot, you know you're going to eventually connect and you know, kill a doe or kill a buck or you know, kill a bear. And listen, the same thing I know eventually I'll kill it, I'll kill a turkey. You know what I mean? Like I I I I will be there, you know. I'm going through the suck right now, but you know what's going to be coming. You know, you've done it before, so just just keep on going. You know what I mean? So I I I love both aspects of it because I feel like we're getting, you know, I've had a lot of hunters who from very young they started hunting and they say the same thing. Well, of course, when I was, you know, 12 years old or what whatever it was, and they shot their whole quiver out of dough and they missed every single shot, and that made them a better hunter and everything like that. But then now hearing also your your perspective, like, no, like I've had success already, like I've I've done this excess, so I know what I'm looking for. So when things don't go well, like you keep pushing yourself because you want to chase that same success that you've already that you've already had.

SPEAKER_05 50:26

I also think to new for new hunters, they need to remember it's not a race, especially in the generation we're in. Like when you're looking at social media and you're seeing all these people kill bucks and you're wondering why you're not killing a buck or you don't even have good deer on your camera. I mean, it's it's it's not a race and it takes time. I mean, everyone will get a turn. Um, so just stay impatient. And I mean, you also get to a point of maturity in your hunting career to where your success isn't measured off of your harvest. It's literally just what you learn because you there's endless opportunity to learn. Because, like I said in previously in the podcast, like no hunt is the same. Like you're always learning something new. So, like that just going and sitting and learning something new or learning new patterns, that's successful to meet. That's a successful hunt to meet.

SPEAKER_00 51:20

Yeah. Yeah. And that's one of the things, like Laurel, like I think is something I've tried to teach, you know, my daughters, more so my eldest daughter. I live in a heavily wooded neighborhood here in Wisconsin. We have a river that runs through it. So we've got a huge, I mean, we've got massive bucks in my neighborhood. But of course, you can't hunt of any kind. So of course you get giants. But yeah, you know, the you know, so when we've gone shed hunting or whatever, but one of the things that I learned, you know, through my buddies that I mentioned earlier in the podcast, um, is something to watch for, you know, at our friend's farm when we've gone over there for holidays or whatever, and you know, we've taken the wheeler out there and gotten close enough to just where it can watch and I can teach her something. But I one of the things I learned that's so cool is just to see how all the wildlife and nature, how they work together. And and one of the things that I taught her that's always stuck with me is that when you see a flock of turkeys out in you know, a cut cornfield, or if it was beans that season, whatever, and if they're all there and they're comfortable doing their thing, you know, I taught my daughter that the the white tail are not far behind because the eyesight, as you know, of a turkey are absolutely unbelievable. I mean, as you know, they can pick off a finger movement at 300 yards away. Yeah, whitetail, incredible eyesight and ears, but they're from it, in my opinion, from the eyesight standpoint, they're not on the same level as turkeys, not even close.

SPEAKER_05 52:59

No, yeah, and I mean they don't even see color, so yeah, and turkeys, they see color, so that's what makes it even more difficult to hunt them.

SPEAKER_00 53:07

Yeah, and and that is just kind of cool. As I've you know, as you had pointed out, every hunt you're learning something, even though, like those couple of times when we had been out there on the fringes just watching, um, you know, those are memories that I always take with me, even though we weren't hunting, I was there with my daughter. But sure enough, you know, like 15 minutes later, you know, those flock of turkeys, and my daughter's kind of like, okay, dad, I want to go back inside. Sure enough, that first dough came out. And I I try to teach her that when they see with as skittish as you know as turkeys are, if they see that they're comfortable, the white tails know it's safe for that moment, and so that's just always kind of been cool. Like, I'm it doesn't matter what it is. Um even if I'm driving for my job, like I'm always trying to learn something. It may be wrong, and I may need to be corrected on it, but I mean that's life.

SPEAKER_05 54:07

The best way to learn in the woods is trial and error, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_02 54:11

Yeah, yeah, I a hundred percent. Now,

Waterfowl Camaraderie And First Big Trip

SPEAKER_02 54:15

the the next the next topic it's gotta be waterfowl, right? Uh I'm become a big waterfowl guy. And let me let me tell you when I when I I think I I found your page probably like last year, I think I I I originally started following you. Um to and I know one picture definitely sticks out is I'm pretty sure you have the geese and you have the diamonds in your teeth.

SPEAKER_04 54:40

I absolutely love absolutely love that.

SPEAKER_02 54:43

Love that picture. Like I think it's hilarious. Like it, and it gives, like, for me, of being like a you know, uh on the outside of it, is it gives like outdoorsman as hunters and everything like that, it it's character. This is the new generation that that we also are in, you know what I mean? And it it shows, you know, to me, you know, probably the the old heads of those guys who are in their upper 50s, 60s, and seven, those traditional hunters, yeah, they're not gonna like it, but they're also not on social media, so it's a different, different age, but it it's kind of like something that reminds me of the NHL. Like, we're me and Connor are big hockey guys, we grew up playing hockey, and they always talk about this, like letting the personalities go and everything like that, and and having them dress how they want and wear the clothes that they want and everything like that. Like, yeah, you don't get that, you you you don't, and I I I I love that whole thing. Like, I was like, that's that's absolutely hilarious. Like, I think it's badass. And then um one of the other ones too that I that I think is badass too is the Corvette one, right?

SPEAKER_05 55:44

I when I saw that I was like I saw two most hated posts on social media and those are my two favorite ones.

SPEAKER_02 55:54

It's funny, it's funny enough that you're that you're on today because so earlier I was driving and there was a Corvette that was that was for sale, and I'm I'm looking on the new market for a new vehicle. I need a new new hunting vehicle. And I literally am like, oh, I go, well, there we go. I and it was a red Corvette too. So I was like, I was like, for sales sign, I was like, well, there goes my next hunting vehicle. And I forgot whoever's song to I was like, hey, what do you think you think I can fit a deer in there or a bear in there or something like that? I was like, I would love to show up to to deer hunt or to a bear hump or to camp like in a Corvette. Like I I I would think that would be so funny and so just like so badass, but I a hundred percent see how it got a lot of hate because people they're just not a really they don't like stuff that is that is thinking outside the box, in in my opinion, especially on social media and and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_05 56:48

Yeah. I mean, what me and JC talk about on a lot of the podcasts we go on is that when we first started hunting, we just got hated on a lot because we were women in general. Yeah, um, and we're misinterpreted for the reasons that we're hunting, and a lot of people will say we do it for the likes, we do it for the follows. Um, but I'm trying to prove you can be unique and you can do cool things, but you can still have a genuine love and passion for the outdoors. Like if any like a lot of people just see what they see on social media and they form opinions, but anyone who knows me is gonna say, yeah, that girl hunts hard. Like she likes she loves to hunt. Um, but looking from the outside in, I could see people are like, oh, she's just doing it for the pictures, or she's just doing it for the cloud or the likes or whatever. But I'm just doing it, I'm just being me, dude. I'm just doing what I want to do and having fun and trying to make people laugh and hoping the girls have a good time too.

SPEAKER_02 57:52

I I think like you know, you know, the one thing what you say is like you get a lot of hate for being a woman and like oh, it's for likes. But I always say, and listen, I don't care who you are. What whatever you do, if you post a picture in your bikini and that's what you do, if you're killing shit and you got bigger deer than me and you're killing more animals than me, like how the hell am I ever going? And I always say that like, how the hell am I ever gonna complain? Like, cool, like you you may not be doing it in you know, you it in the way that that I like I would do, like I wouldn't do something, you know what I mean? But that's you, and you're your own, your own person, whether you're a woman, whether you're a guy, whether you're black, white, span, it it it doesn't matter, right?

SPEAKER_05 58:34

Yeah, you do. I mean, I also think a reason for the such kind of like like outlandish posts that I've been posting is because I'm trying to also prove like you can be a woman and you can be unique and you can be different without like using your body to draw attention. Like you can do plenty of other things besides that.

SPEAKER_02 58:55

Yeah, and I I know that like I we we've had a few ladies on here and everything like that, and they're all diehard hunters who they all kill. Like they're awesome killers, right? Is it is it ever tough when you know maybe you you know you see or you get compared or or whatever it is to someone who, yeah, maybe they're they're not, maybe they're really not doing it for the love and you know, for the outdoors and the hunting, and they're just doing it for likes and for money or or whatever the case is. Like it has that ever crossed your, you know, your guy's mind of like, oh, like, damn, like this, it's it's an unfortunate part of it.

SPEAKER_05 59:36

Uh when me and JC first started hunting, I mean, I think that was one of the things we set out to prove is that like there are girls who genuinely hunt because they love to hunt and not just because um they want to show they're trying to draw attention to their bodies or whatever. They're just you know, um I mean everyone's always gonna come look at you from the outside in, not knowing you, and compare you to people like that just because y'all are both women. Y'all are all women, y'all are bunched into one category, but that's kind of something we're trying to set ourselves aside. And honestly, those girls who do it for their own reasons and don't have a passion for it and don't have a genuine love for it, they're not gonna make it that that far. They won't make it very far at all. And that's I just kind of hope that not all women are looked at in that negative light. And we're trying to we're trying to kind of help that.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:33

Yeah, I I agree. I I grew up with four sisters. I'm the only boy. I grew up with four sisters. My and one of my sisters is absolutely complete, and all my sisters are complete badasses. Let me not say that. But the one, the one is like a is a big wrestler, and she went, you know, to college for wrestling and everything like that. She stepped outside her comfort zone and and did something that was a male-dominated sport and everything like that. And I, you know, you know, she got a lot of hate for it and and everything like that as well in the beginning. And then, you know, once people started realizing, oh shit, like she's actually good and she can kick ass, like things, things started to change uh when that whole when that happened and everything like that. So I I know it it's it's one of those things like now, like, I don't know, at least for me, like when I when I see you, it's like, damn, you're you're a freaking amazing hunter, and you're you're an outdoors and just like you know, just like the rest of us, you know what I mean? And and I I think that's exactly what you guys want people to see you as is you know, like our brother and sister out of of you know, in the outdoors, and you know, we're all one big family and everything like that. We all are here to support each other and and and help each other and and in those matters.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:42

Uh yeah. I mean, I really hate to say it, but women in this industry, they have to prove themselves. I hate that that's the way that it is, but I mean, like I said, when me and JC first started hunting, like we got hated on, but we proved ourselves and we earned the respect. I mean, it doesn't you can't just pop in and start hunting and expect everyone to respect you. Um, and a big thing that I always stand by too is own what you don't know, because you'll gain a lot more respect from people, hunters, especially if you're you own what you don't know and you're you ask questions and you're willing to learn, and you don't go in there acting like you know it all already, because I mean, anyone who is a good hunter and has been doing it for a while, they'll see right through all that, you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:29

Yeah, yeah. And I think that also to your point, Laurel, I think that's that's evident. I mean, just in our in our like what I do for my everyday job, you know, I I've always you know, you and I think it's something I try to instill. My parents did to me, your parents probably did for you, and Mike, like you, as we've talked about many times today, like you're always learning. And I like what you had said. Like, some people would look at asking questions because you don't know, some people are afraid to ask them because of oh, will there be repercussions? Or is somebody gonna talk smack to me for not knowing that? But not only does it make you a better hunter, but in like my everyday life for all of us, like it makes you a better person. And and I like what you said there, like, people are gonna respect more the fact that, like, like so the guys on boondocks, like I'm not afraid to ask a question of something I don't know because one I'm gonna learn, and I I think just the respect fact of it, and people just know that you're genuine and what you're asking, and that you really don't know. Because as you said, like walking around in this world thinking we know the answers to everything. Well, you know, people got a uh another thing coming. So yeah, I I think just being real and being I think the the better word and is just like being doesn't matter if it's hunting, work, personal life, whatever, being vulnerable to what you don't know, yeah, only makes you that much more of for a hunter, a killer, or whatever. So yeah, no, those are all really good points that you made. I like it.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:10

I think, for example, I think women who have never met me may look at my social media and be intimidated. But what I mean, little do they know. I was at the bow shop today asking a bunch of stupid questions. I mean, how else am I gonna learn if I don't ask? I mean, you can try and teach yourself, and you're you can teach yourself, but it's better to lean on other people and have find a mentor. I mean, find people who are good at it who can teach you and who can help you, you know, 100%.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:36

Yeah, definitely. Um to and and you know, for for for that whole situation, like anyone listening, like and you know, we talk about all the time. Just if if you're nervous, listen, you can reach out to any of us, like all the guys from Boondocks are they're great with this, you know. You can reach out to Laura over there, she she'll answer you and everything like that. Like I I get the nervousness, like I was there at some point too, especially you know, on on social media, you don't want to look stupid and everything like that, but it is so much better to ask questions too, especially on something like at the end of the day, hunting is a fun thing that we all do, but it is also a very serious thing that we do. We do handle weapons, we are out in the woods, and and things do happen and go wrong. So it's better to keep yourself safe, give you a peace of mind, maybe your family a peace of mind. Uh, so you know, when you go out, you're at your best of your abilities, and nothing, you know, gosh forbid, nothing bad or anything like that happen happens to you.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:41

So yeah, I mean, when we do these women's trips, um, I respect the girls who come and ask questions and way more than the girls who come and they act like they know it all, but they're they don't even know how to load their shotgun shells, you know? Like it's not it's not embarrassing to. ask a question.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:02

Right. Yeah. Yeah. And you know, and for and and that's another thing for all like the like young, young hunters that are just getting into the sport, for you know, we all see all of us on social media, on you know, all the hunting shows on sportsman's channel or whatever. And you see, you know, most of what we all see on there is not reality for the majority of hunters in terms of the properties, in terms of the white tail management, whatever you're hunting. But like my whole like philosophy is is even the most successful hunters or even business people in life, for anybody to think that somebody is like on a pedestal to where they're not unsure on the unsure of themselves at some point or nervous or scared or or want to ask a question, no matter what level they're at, but they won't do it. For anybody that thinks there are people out there they're like they're flat out wrong. And if they tell you that in my opinion they're liars.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:03

That that that's just my thing because in my opinion that that's just not real life. Nobody on this planet is that sure of themselves. I mean if they are that that's not me. So knowledge is power I guess is my point.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:19

Yeah definitely definitely agree um we'll get real quick back into into the waterfowl fowl talk uh before before we we we start to wrap things up but um did you start water waterfowl hunting at the same year as you started turkey and deer hunting too as well yeah I mean I started all in the first I would I'm a well-rounded hunter now but I mean I wanted to do it all I wanted to try it all so um a year a year of a lot of first for you what what was that uh first waterfowl hunt and and everything like that uh all and it's cool like you you did all three all in your first year and you got to see all the differences and the challenges that go into hunting each game animal as as well.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:09

I think what stood out to me most about waterfowl that was different is that it was like more of a camaraderie type of sport versus like deer hunting you it's like you against yourself and you're by yourself and you're trying to prove your one up yourself um in waterfowl you're you guys all come together for one goal trying to make the biggest pile or just just trying to have a good time or whatever.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:35

I mean you're in there laughing cutting up and being loud I love um but it's a totally different uh type of chase for sure you you're and Connor I don't know how much waterfow if you've done waterfowl or guys uh you know anyone listening has hasn't right I'll tell you I I look forward after grinding and chasing and putting yourself through the work of deer season which I do love I do love the grind of deer season it is that nice release and relief when waterfowl season gets together and you you meet up with the boys and you're in the ground blind and you're literally just you're laughing the whole entire time you know there's there's mornings where we're cooking up tail uh here in Jersey we call it Taylor Hammegan cheese um with salt pepper ketchup on it you know you have your your coffee or hot chug chocolate if you want to smoke a freaking cigar you could smoke a cigar you know what I mean like you're you're you don't have to worry about how you smell or nothing or how you don't have to worry about yeah anything until the birds come once the birds come then it's a hundred percent game on and your movement and everything you gotta do has got to be on point. But yeah outside of that like yeah you're you're just chilling and it's like oh hey you know you finally get to talk and like have fun and not yeah not tiptoe not have to worry about the scent not you know worry about being too loud or anything like that it is it's a great way to get people into hunting too I believe as well like if I was to introduce brand new people I would want to introduce them to uh waterfowl hunting before I get into the others yeah I mean it's a great way to get comfortable handling a firearm I mean it's fun it's not like if you go out and have a slow set deer hunting and you don't see anything you're discouraged and you don't ever want to do it again.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:29

I mean kind of if you go waterfowl hunting you're gonna probably most of the time want to do it again.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:35

Yep. Agreed uh definitely agreed. So take take us through that uh that first hunt and uh you know some of the things that you that you remember from it.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:46

Uh well other than uh wood duck hunting in the swamp in North Carolina my first like legit waterfowl hunt was in Arkansas with JC. Um it was an all women's hunt but it was a guided hunt and then an outfitter but we got to shoot ducks we had never we don't get to shoot in North Carolina like mallards and I mean we get a little bit of pentails in North Carolina. We got to shoot pentails, spoon bill, I mean specs. And I had never even heard or seen a spec in person until we went out to Arkansas. So I mean and just being with a big group of women was just impactful and I was like dang this is fun. Like I'm not going with a bunch of guys like I usually do at home. I don't feel like intimidated to prove myself to these guys. I mean I was still kind of intimidated because the girls I was like dang these girls are legit they're badass like they like to hunt like that's so cool.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:40

But once y'all all get together and y'all are sharing a blind and y'all are picking at the ducks I mean it was just a good time everyone was like minded um yeah I mean it was a great time I I I think it's uh and Arkansas is from my understanding and yet again I'm still learning the water is the holy grail of kind of like waterfowl hunting and you know uh not anymore not anymore I wouldn't say that anymore no oh well it was it was that it was it was yeah what is it now I would ask uh that's still to be determined it depends who you ask yeah I I remember what when like when my uh wife and I first started dating years ago my father-in-law with a crew and that was the first thing I ever did you know was pheasant hunting my father in law taught me how to pheasant hunt we had unbelievable ground in uh northeast Iowa um to pheasant hunt on but he would go every year and it was to Arkansas for duck hunting and I think he did that 10 years in a row I do have an answer to that question.

SPEAKER_05 1:12:50

The best the new place to be is wherever the ducks are I mean they they migrate so they do migrate follow them with the migration I mean you're gonna be on them. If you go to Arkansas in like November or December like those ducks are coming all the way down from Canada. You think they're all down there yet? Yeah like I mean you can have just as good of a hunt in Missouri as the same flyway if you just time it right like yeah that that's very true.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:20

You know here I I will say like we got ducks have been kind of lacking over the last couple years at least in in our spots the geese have not I've loved yeah the East Coast has got some geese that's for sure yeah yeah yeah like I'm pretty like our this year our number was one so our limit was one per person this year so we only it was horrible even though like we're in a flyway so like our limits one and we're seeing you know you could see probably five hey keep going I'm gonna plug my phone in yeah yeah no worries uh you could see five to ten thousand you know birds in in a day you know what I mean so uh for for us in Jersey it's a complete was a complete waste this year of waterfowl hunting and everything like that but in years in the past I mean when the limit is at least a minimum three in New Jersey goose hunting is tons of fun we have a lot of black ducks here in New Jersey too um which I know a lot of places don't you know I don't know if uh you guys have black ducks and everything like that at um but we have black ducks but you do get a few yeah plentiful on the east coast for sure yeah yeah yeah we get a lot of mallards and and things like that obviously wood ducks and and stuff and so Jersey does have that like kind of like and then we also have the sea too so we get a lot of sea ducks and everything like that. So Jersey does have like a lot of those roots of Jersey is such an un underappreciated state because no one thinks of hunting and we're such a tiny little you know everyone thinks of the Jersey shore and like everything like that. But for hunting we we get we get a lot of a lot of the good stuff it's just you know you you just don't hear about it. Yeah I've hunted Maryland before for early season honkers yeah and that was awesome I've heard yeah we're when we're Delaware we're not far away from from Maryland at all and you're probably a little more southern probably when you came to to Maryland everything like that uh than us um so Maryland's another great state and everything like that. I'll I'll tell you man duck hunting it's incredible. I'm thinking about it right now and I can't wait can't wait for for for next year and everything like that. But

Dream Hunts State Goals And Closing

SPEAKER_02 1:15:37

um for my big question for you and I ask every new guest and I I gotta ask you before I forget and we we if you could two weeks your dream animal money's not a thing so it doesn't make matter how much the it costs and everything like that what is your dream animal to hunt and where would it be uh I would love to shoot a big bull elk with my bow um probably in like Arizona or New Mexico. Oh Arizona's a good one I like that we don't usually get that too much on here in Arizona or New Mexico and I I've heard great things about both those states for for elk hunting.

SPEAKER_05 1:16:19

I think it's really tough to draw a tag there. I haven't started putting in for tags out west for elk just yet because I know even if I got a tag I wouldn't be able to afford to take the trip out there just yet but I'm hoping one day I'll get an opportunity to do that and have enough money to do it.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:37

So I I think the the cool thing about elk and I always tell people like I think elk is definitely the more achievable one um out of like if you look at like the people like mine's Alaskan bull moose like I may never be able to get to do that. You know I I got people that do you know big sheep like uh bighorn sheep and everything like that. How many people actually get to do that not many where elk I mean obviously you look at Colorado they had to change the rules and everything like that because so many people were going out and and doing that and and everything like that. So I don't mind because you already have that in New Mexico and Arizona and stuff like that. Like I I do think that is something that you know you you probably should put a limit on and and and have a draw and everything like that.

SPEAKER_05 1:17:24

So we have it for generations and generations to come hopefully you know what I mean now if we're talking turkeys I'd love to kill a ghoul maybe yeah okay do you do you want to do the slam um I've done my grand slam but I have my 49 states now I think I'm at like 23 let us know what let us know when you come to to New Jersey we'll we'll get you on a bird. You'll you'll you know well we got some spots I'm on I'm at a point in my life honestly where if I'm re-hunting a state I'd rather take someone who's never killed a turkey before who hasn't killed one in that state but if it's a state that I haven't killed a bird in I'm like I'm shooting this bird like I'm pulling I'm hitting like I think five or six states if you if you come to Jersey hopefully by then I've already killed I've already killed one so we don't have to fight over who's who's pulling the trigger um yeah but um yeah like yeah we it 20 that's a lot of states already yeah that's a that's a good amount of what what has been your favorite state so far to to turkey hunting uh that's an easy answer my favorite state is and always will be Kentucky I mean I've been hunting it since I started hunting I was unsuccessful the first couple years and once I got my first Tom I mean I was it's just fun here like lots of people don't realize there's foothills um so you're walking up and down base basically mountains um with tons of leaves on the ground so you're trying to be quiet you're loud as crap um the birds are smart because there's lots of predators lots of pressure hunting um I mean it's just uh I like the pole walking around running and gunning thing and I feel like it's definitely a challenge here and it's definitely easier other places but I like the challenge and I'll always like hunting here in the spring. So yeah sweet well what what's Kentucky like in the spring you know yeah I know I've heard you know summers what winters are like you know is it what's the weather usually looking like oh over there by by this time of the year uh it's either hit or miss it's like last week I mean y'all are like is she from Kentucky or Tennessee but uh I live in Tennessee but I live like right on the border of Kentucky and Tennessee's really hard to get permission in so I'll I'll go up to the little rinky dink towns. I hate to say that but like towns like no the population like 400 or whatever and door knock because most of the time it's old people um who farmers and stuff and so I'll I'll get permission pretty easy. But it it can be anywhere from like 30s all the way up today it was 85. But last week it was 33.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:22

So today yeah today was 40 something for us and yesterday was 78 not quite as obviously hot and uh for us like like it is for you guys but it was a definitely a big change and I think tomorrow's going to be 78 again with with rain i I think the weather's just all out of whack right now this year for for almost the whole entire country. Yeah I mean up where Connor lives it's beautiful and green in the springtime and here it's like uh it's when it's green it's green but like it I swear it goes from like brown to green overnight and it somewhere in April yeah oh man um but uh Connor you gotta you got any more we're almost at our our mark here our our speech about where we like to be at Kentucky uh I might actually be going out there for early season uh bow hunt this year that'd be my that'd be my first how is my invite well it we'll see I'm sure you could probably go now Kentucky's gotta be one of the highest states for out of staters coming to uh whitetail hunt is that it's gotta be i it's gotta be people come from all over i would probably agree with you especially because they start so early um you know like i said if we didn't find out about Delaware um Delaware is only a two hour drive for us and we're talking about that if we can hunt deer and velvet in Delaware two hours away we're not gonna drive however long 12 13 four whatever hours it it would have been to to Kentucky don't be wrong i we do at least want to get a year where we do go to Kentucky and and hunt velvet down in Kentucky like it's something that we've always wanted to do but we're like damn I could get away with being in Delaware a lot longer with the with the fiance and everything like that than I can in Kentucky so uh you know we we pick Delaware and and everything like that but um such a really interesting state that I I definitely want to get to and um you know definitely plan on on hunting in in the future I think we get a lot of Florida and Georgia out of staters a lot of Florida really yeah they want to kill a big deer they don't got them down there.

SPEAKER_05 1:22:42

Yeah they don't they don't they don't have it down there you're right either that or get away from the heat yeah but I also think like a lot of east coast people like Kentucky and Tennessee is a good like midway point for them. Yeah yeah like when I lived in North Carolina Arkansas and Kentucky and Tennessee was a good I would drive to that but not much further. Now that I'm in Tennessee like I'll go out to Oklahoma and deer hunt. They got even bigger deer out there.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:08

But like one of our guys one of our guys just got back from Oklahoma.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:13

I I can't wait yeah like Zach on our Tlahoma yeah we're going out November 5th through the 10th um I can't remember Mike if you remember it I don't know how far it is from Oklahoma City but uh yeah I cannot wait. I mean just to see the difference in the terrain out there versus the Midwest.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:34

Uh so I'm really looking forward to that oh yeah y'all were hooded at a good time too they were really hard out there sweet well yeah yeah you're gonna be ready for my arrow well your arrow better chase a deer running 25 miles per hour because they do be running out there I'm gonna give it my best shot um but yeah uh listen we we've had a we've had an absolute blast uh having you on you know we we definitely got to get you know both you you ladies back on for for another day to talk more about you know your your programs and and all the hunts that you guys are gonna be doing and and getting people you know uh women into the outdoors and everything like that I would love to to get both of you guys on in the future um but we we we definitely appreciate you coming on listen I'll tell you if you when jersey's on your list make sure you come you know let us know if you ever want to come out for bear let us know oh heck yeah that would be awesome love love bear hunting up here uh Connor he's gonna be flying in this year from from Wisconsin to to partake in our our bear season like we have some I mean north and uh you know I don't I don't know how long and how much where in North Carolina and everything like that but I've heard great things about North Carolina's bears like they they have a big number of bears and and big bears and everything like that. So it's it's basically the same thing here in New Jersey except for we're a smaller state so you could throw a rock and you could probably hit a bear uh here so that that is that is definitely the plan but we we appreciate everything you know and for you coming on and you know everything that you guys are doing it it's absolutely great love love following along and in your journey and everything like that.

SPEAKER_05 1:25:23

Appreciate that appreciate y'all having me it was a blast talking with y'all and I know JC would love to get on here and tell y'all a little bit more about sisterhood and what we do over there.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:33

So yeah that's awesome well yeah we'll see we'll see how things go here in Wisconsin Laurel but I may be hitting you up to see if you can uh be my guide turkey on that yeah let me know if you have any success we're not coming until late May so hopefully they're still kicking then yeah don't worry yeah I'll I'll keep you I'll keep you I'll I mean Connor obviously you'll be keep kept updated don't worry uh Laura I'll I'll keep you updated on my you know hopefully successful but if I'm stressing out and freaking out because the birds keep beating me again you know you'll you'll probably be one of the first people to know of like up back at it again where the the turkeys at this point a hundred and me me zero so you know look at looking forward to the turkey season and everything like that. But um like I said everyone you know we hope you guys enjoyed this episode make sure you check out uh the links in the description above give give her a follow um give their their company a follow and and and everything like that. Everything will be in the links below we hope you guys enjoyed this episode and we'll see you guys next time.