From Tom Brady to Dave Grohl: Jesse Dittmar's Incredible Journey with Celebrity Portrait Photography

In this insightful episode, we delve into the world of renowned celebrity portrait photographer, Jesse Dittmar (@jessedittmar). Join us as we explore the life and career of Jesse, whose work has graced the pages of prestigious magazines and captured the essence of some of Hollywood's biggest stars.

Through our conversation with Jesse, we uncover the fascinating stories behind his iconic portraits. Hear how Jesse's passion for photography began, from his humble beginnings to his rise in the industry. We explore his unique approach to capturing the essence of each subject, whether it's the intensity of Bryan Cranston, the charisma of Peter Dinklage, the wit of David Letterman, or the enigmatic presence of Jodie Foster.

Jesse takes us behind the scenes, sharing the challenges and triumphs he has encountered throughout his career. From navigating the high-pressure world of celebrity photography to developing his own artistic style, he offers insights and anecdotes that will inspire both aspiring photographers and fans of his work.

You can find links to Jesse's work by clicking this link:  https://jessedittmar.com/

You can also check out his book "Overexposed" by clicking this link: https://overexposedthebook.com/store/p/overexposed

If you're listening on Spotify you can now interact with us directly by typing your thoughts, opinions, or questions in the Q & A section. We read them and publish them. It's a great way to make these episodes more of a two way conversation so be sure to add your two cents after each episode!

Thanks to Tamron Americas for being our lead sponsor this episode! You can check out their website below to see their full lineup of camera lenses or visit your nearest photo retailer to purchase their products:
https://tamron-americas.com/

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Thanks for listening!
Go get shooting, go get editing, and stay focused.

@sethmacey
@mantis_photography
@thephotographermindset

Transcript

INTRO:

00:01.46
smacey
Welcome back to another episode of the photography for mindset podcast I'm your co-host at macy and today we had on Jesse Ditmar haven't had a ton of portrait photographers on the show in our almost 200 episodes that's coming up pretty quick. Ah.

00:04.76
aaronmannes
And I'm your co-host Aaron Manus

00:18.34
aaronmannes
Wow, That's crazy. But but no, we have not had I think such a dedicated Portrait photographer to the art of Portrait photography. Um, it was really awesome and really interesting and I I.

00:18.66
smacey
Pretty cool.

00:31.88
aaronmannes
Was most impressed I feel like by his drive and conviction from such an early age that this is what he's going to be doing.

00:36.70
smacey
Yeah, and hearing that story of you know, being a photo assistant for 7 years system to people like Andy Leowitz and then eventually you know going on his own. It was interesting to hear how he said oh I went off on my own too early I liked I liked kind of hearing that story I didn't get the chance to ask if he.

00:52.60
aaronmannes
Yeah.

00:56.17
smacey
Deemed that a mistake or just bad timing or a necessity. Maybe he'll write to me when he hears this. But um, you know going from there to eventually photographing people like Brian Cranston David Letterman peter dinklge you know you can go on his website in the episode description and see. Portfolio of his work as well as clicking his Instagram handle which is also in the episode description. But I think we got into some ah some pretty ah some pretty deep mindset concepts especially around you know when. Thrown Curve Ballsman you've been told you have 2 hours to do a shoot and now you have 2 minutes and people who um may be being difficult on a set or you know just some of the unexpected things I thought was kind of interesting to hear and how to navigate that and of course that comes with with experience. But. You know, trying to get that level of experiences is what it's all about.

01:51.12
aaronmannes
Um, yeah, yeah, there's definitely some of those good stories towards the end of the episode um some personal stories with some of these famous celebrities. So definitely stick around. But I think we should just get right into it.

02:04.64
smacey
All right word from our sponsor and then we'll be right in.

INTERVIEW:

00:31.90
smacey
Well Jesse Ditmar thanks for joining us today man appreciate ah you offering up your time today. Got to say that before we even get started before before we press record you and Aaron came to the conclusion that you're both Connecticut boys so you can.

00:44.15
aaronmannes
Yeah.

00:46.75
smacey
You can bond over that immediately and right now you are in Brooklyn New York how long have you been there.

00:52.58
Jesse
I'm in New York for over half my life now I'm a eight nineteen years nineteen years Brooklyn forever man.

00:56.83
smacey
Like and it's got to hold you. You're never leaving are you Brooklyn Forever right? on and is your studio there.

01:01.42
aaronmannes
Cool exact.

01:04.59
Jesse
Yes, it is. It's in Dumbo downtown Brooklyn beautiful spot and I'm in I'm in lovely bedsty where I live yeah come by say hi. There's lots of coffee shops I'll meet anybody people people message me they want.

01:14.37
smacey
Um, right? So people can stop in say hello Next time they're in that area.

01:23.81
Jesse
Want to talk they want to know how what? what? the secret sauce is I'll buy em a coffee come to Brooklyn say hi.

01:28.48
aaronmannes
From it.

01:28.60
smacey
Um, the secrets. What? What do you say when people reach out to you like that. Let's smooth start right here you know because we're always encouraging people. There's this,. There's this thing where it's like oh I got to have a mentor I got to have a mentor I don't really think it works that way I think it's a lot more organic and starts with a cup of coffee. It starts The hey can I pick your brain What to.? What's your kind of reaction when people reach out to you like that because I'm sure you're at a stage in your career where you know people obviously look up to you for good reason your portfolio is Amazing. You clearly know what you're doing your work is stunning. Um, and how do you maybe decipher some of those individuals who reach out to you where you notice that they've got something they've maybe got an it It factor.

01:52.46
Jesse
Thank you, Thank you.

02:06.17
smacey
Versus maybe those who don't.

02:07.97
Jesse
Um, well those are 2 different questions when when someone reaches out to me I I Usually just have a lot of questions for them. Um, because that's usually what they're trying to figure out is. They want to do and how they want to do it and the best way for them to figure that out is themselves So There's a lot of um lot of what are you trying to accomplish and what do you want to do with your life and your photography and um I think a lot of people come to me.

02:24.93
smacey
So if.

02:40.42
Jesse
Because I I put out such a decisive clear vision of my work and what I want to do and a lot of people aren't really sure what they want to do but they see that I know what I want to do so they come to me looking for.

02:56.40
smacey
Um, right.

02:59.66
Jesse
Some some sort of guidance and and the the answer almost inevitably always is you got to do you. You got to figure out what you want to do and I was lucky enough to figure out that I want to do exactly what I'm doing when I was 17 so I've had I've had.

03:15.30
smacey
So right.

03:19.29
Jesse
20 years of following a path. Ah for the most part without getting off of it and when you've done it that long and have had that strong of a end goal and vision. Ah, you're you're gonna look like.

03:36.82
smacey
Yeah, for sure.

03:37.60
Jesse
You know what you want to do? um so that's that's inevitably what we end up talking about. Um as far as like the second part of your question I guess um, knowing if someone has it or not I mean that's.

03:53.77
smacey
Um, let me rephrase that question if you don't mind knowing if some but because I don't know if I don't really believe in the it factor what I meant by that is if somebody if you notice in notice a quality or a characteristic or maybe an idiosyncrasy that says they really are into this. They really are.

03:54.90
Jesse
Please.

04:11.22
smacey
Interested in in finding out what they want to do or they really are interested in improving or you can insert any sort of phrase there and not just essentially asking you questions for the sake of asking you them.

04:23.23
Jesse
Yeah, cure curiosity obviously is huge huge factor. Um, Persistence is huge, um the ability to prioritize.

04:41.53
Jesse
Those those are probably your 3 most important character traits um to to be to being a successful photographer I guess I haven't really put it like that before but well.

04:56.86
smacey
No, it's interesting and you mentioned so at 17 you were fortunate to know what you wanted to pursue I have a couple questions based on based on that statement is there a light bulb moment for you because a lot of people are searching for that and I think.

05:02.62
Jesse
Yeah.

05:14.64
smacey
For some individuals at age 17 They know what they want to do and they pursue that for the rest of their life and that is incredible and for some people they know what they want to do this month and then that changes next month and then maybe that changes five years from now and I think the the latter.

05:20.46
Jesse
Um, yeah.

05:27.90
Jesse
Um, sure.

05:32.66
smacey
Sometimes get frustrated. Why isn't anything sticking or why isn't why am I not committed to to 1 thing. So first part of the question is what was that moment where you knew. Okay I'm going to I'm going to pursue this because I I know this is what I want.

05:47.46
Jesse
Yeah I Well it's hard I mean I think I think in hindsight you want to simplify moments into light bulb moments and most likely they were a little bit. They were a little bit elongated and kind of evolving but for for me, certainly you know I was.

06:00.33
smacey
Um, right.

06:06.39
Jesse
A lot of things led up to my led up to the quote unquote light bulb moment I so was in it got exposed to a dark room when I was fourteen fifteen and I thought it was super cool and then I had a photography teacher in high school that really nourished my ah.

06:24.40
Jesse
My enthusiasm for for the medium and kept pushing me to to keep photographing and I was kind of like I was definitely a man. You know he definitely mentored me and and pushed just fostered my desire to. Figure out what photography is all about and then and then yeah I mean my aha moment was definitely like sitting you know Connecticut you would know and ah you know sitting in a barnes and noble like on the floor of the photography section and just looking at all the photo the photo books and specifically the portrait books.

06:53.84
aaronmannes
Are.

07:03.58
Jesse
Um, the portrait books of of of Lieowitz and Irving Penn and Avedon and Nigel Perry and Martin Schuller and all these all these people that I was just so at that age I had no. I knew that people I was looking at were famous or important in some way but I had no idea like what the why or the how or those those books being created and I and it felt like at that moment I was extremely. Interested and continued to be interested for decades on the the answering those questions of of why and how and and I still you know last week did a 2 shoots and still thinking about why and how and. And so I got inspired I got inspired on on gross unclean Green Barnes and noble carpet and I haven't looked back since then um, ah yeah.

08:05.80
aaronmannes
Um.

08:07.91
smacey
Is.

08:10.71
aaronmannes
That's funny I think it's interesting to point out that you just rattled off the top of your head maybe five six inspirations that you've had in terms of photographers and and following that path and you can think back to like I don't know if that's true for everyone in this. You know, social media space photography space because it is ah it is a craft that you kind of can just go and get going on and kind of look around at a bunch of you know posts that flip through and you have no idea who the person is and like oh that inspires an idea.

08:35.00
Jesse
Um, sure.

08:45.10
aaronmannes
It's kind of like a one hit wonder in a sense and you go do something you go do something else. But if you think about like musicians. They definitely have musicians that inspired them when they grew up you think about athletes. They definitely have athletes that inspire them when they grew up and I I encourage people myself included to really dig into. Maybe. Um, who are some of the photographers that are inspiring or that give you like whoa like those moments of awe because it it is good to dig into the past and and what has been done and why the why for certain people and and and kind of explore that I think that's interesting. Seth do you like and I'm not putting on the spot because I don't I couldn't list 6 photographers that inspire me the way that Jesse just did um and I you see like I think that I think that's my point. Um, you knew so early and it was such a passion and still is I think that's.

09:31.37
Jesse
I got more how many more you want.

09:42.58
aaronmannes
Just a very interesting path compared to most now like I'm relatively new compared to you at photography. It's been 4 years almost to the day. So um, thank you. It really is just about um my first post. But yeah, um, Seth.

09:51.32
Jesse
Happy anniversary.

10:02.60
smacey
Um, so I could I could name some but not as quickly as Jesse here I would have to think all right? Yeah, yeah, yes, that person but no, there's definitely something to be said for that. Um, the second part of my question was going to be okay, if you've known what you've wanted to do.

10:02.30
aaronmannes
I Mean yeah.

10:19.60
smacey
Very long time. What does it take to keep raising the bar in that lane way. What does it take to continue to be creatively Stimulated. What does it take to you know continue to be. Excited about this Arena you're in when you've been in it for so Long. You've potentially uncovered so much is it taking risks is it changing Techniques. What is it for you at least.

10:48.00
Jesse
I One of the I mean one of the reasons why I love being a Portrait photographer is that part of it is inherently different every single time because it's different person so different people will inspire me. And I'll learn from almost every shoot about something or someone I don't know or didn't know about um, ah, that's that's the biggest answer is that I'm I'm continually you know I photographed last week I photographed a fitness influencer for men's Health magazine and um.

11:26.55
Jesse
And never thought I'd be photographing a Lgbt Q Body Positive fitness influencer and and that's a space that I've got very little knowledge about I mean I'm it's certainly very little knowledge about So so walking into that shoot.

11:42.44
smacey
Um, right.

11:46.40
Jesse
There's creative juices flowing and and ideas and ways to tackle that photographic situation that I've never done before and I've been working for for a decade. Um, and so that right there is. Is is a reason to get excited and reason to try new things and are and a reason to want to keep working. But I think a lot of it is just internal mental illness of wanting to just do it So badly. Um and wanting to photograph and being obsessive. And and being self-motivating ah because the industry is so difficult that if you don't if you don't have some sort of Supernatural. That's not the right way to say it's supernatural. But if you don't have some sort of internal.

12:45.29
Jesse
Ah, engine motivating you it would be easy not to be motivated I think.

12:45.57
smacey
A.

12:52.90
smacey
Yeah, and that's my ears always perk up when for certain Keywords and being self- motivattivated you said that went Ohh let's go here before we get into more portrait stuff. Don't worry folks. We're going to get into Portrait stuff. It's a very, it's very difficult for people to get self motivattivated.

13:01.73
Jesse
And.

13:11.92
smacey
Yeah, it's very people. It's very difficult for people to want to go to the gym. It's very difficult for people who want to start that project. It's very difficult like for some individuals. Um, you know what is getting what is getting yourself motivated look like for you.

13:26.82
Jesse
I You know, um my my brain works that a seed some sort of idea or a seed gets implanted in my brain and then I can't I can't do anything until it's out until I've completed it or yeah or or some you know or.

13:36.50
smacey
Um, or you go crazy.

13:41.79
Jesse
Just needs it just needs to happen. So if I come up with an idea that I want to that I want to shoot or person I want to shoot I'm gonna I'm gonna to the detriment of most other things in my life pursue it until it happens or until I am pretty confident. There's no way it's going to happen. Um or until some other. Idea supplants it so motivation to me as soon as I got a call for an assignment I'm immediately motivated I'm about to someone just gave me an opportunity that I didn't have the split split second beforehand and that just gets my.

14:05.76
smacey
Um, great.

14:18.59
Jesse
Gets me going. Um when I was younger and not not being asked to shoot assignments or projects or whatever and it was completely all myself. It was ah it was a desire to to learn. It was a curiosity. It was a desire to learn and it was ah seeing other people's work seeing.

14:19.91
smacey
Um, yeah.

14:37.60
Jesse
Seeing work in my own head and wanting to figure out how to do it. Um, seeing what I could accomplish seeing seeing what was technically possible. What was technically um what I was capable of ah what would happen if I did if I tried taking. Shoot this way with this kind of technique or equipment or what would it look like if I went that way and what what would it look like if I did photographed models or this or that and just kind of just like exploring and I you know I didn't I just was never. Satiated I would say in the beginning of my career ah before you know when I was still basically when I was a photo assistant and when I was in college and stuff I was just never satiated with the answers. Um I was just continually curious. Um, and.

15:32.90
Jesse
I mean I don't know I don't can't tell you I can't tell you why that is and just kind of like ah, an obsessive compulsive guy and.

15:38.13
smacey
Yeah mean often when you can't put things into words. It says a lot on its own I know some people might say that doesn't make a lot of sense but like I kind of I understand what you're what you're saying.

15:52.60
Jesse
I'm passionate and you have to be This is a kind of work that you need to be I'm compelled and and if you want to do what I do you have to be compelled to do it.

15:57.57
smacey
Um, okay.

16:04.70
smacey
Um, right.

16:04.93
aaronmannes
And and ah and obsessed I think is ah is kind of a good word that maybe gets a bad connotation sometime. But um, but to to stay in to stay in the lane that you started with I guess when you were you know 1718 to stay in that lane.

16:12.59
Jesse
It get me bad. It can be good where it can be bad to you.

16:24.17
aaronmannes
I I find too myself I think photography is pretty easy in terms of a medium to to switch to a different lane and be moderately successful and get that early sort of dopamine rush of like oh like I do sports photography.

16:33.81
Jesse
And.

16:42.96
aaronmannes
I'm going to go do some food photography I have some ideas and and be successful like those were good photos that that worked but to really dive into it beyond the ah the sort of like you know this is this is good enough or this is like a solid b to get to that a plus and beyond. Of a certain genre I think does take that sort of being compelled or obsession for sure and not everyone has that a lot of people are jumping around myself included just you know testing the water seeing what diversifying whatever you want to call it. Um, and there's benefits to that too. But. I think to to really be a master of a craft you you do have to kind of put on the blinders and go like this is this is what I want to do and I want to do it at the highest level you agree Seth yeah, that's.

17:32.16
Jesse
I concur.

17:33.37
smacey
I would hundred percent agree 100% agree

17:39.20
aaronmannes
That's why I have Seth here. He just goes I hundred percent agree with you? No, he doesn't he doesn't I'm just kidding. Yeah.

17:40.24
Jesse
I.

17:40.82
smacey
No, that's not true. You get to push back sometimes.

17:45.25
Jesse
What do you 87% agree on is the question.

17:51.75
smacey
Yeah, so who are some of the people you've had the privilege of working alongside in your career some I already know the answer to this question because I've done my research but.

17:52.43
aaronmannes
We'll find out soon.

18:05.78
smacey
Say don't ask questions. You don't know the answer to I don't or that you already know the answer to I don't think I follow that too often. That's why I'm not a lawyer but who have you worked alongside and how has that influenced you and is it true. What they say don't meet your heroes right.

18:20.44
Jesse
Ah, so yeah I mean you're asking who I've photographed Um, what clients have worked for as a photographer.

18:23.65
smacey
No a lot like who you've worked for sorry no more. So um, as an assistant in your when you're starting out. Yeah.

18:32.48
Jesse
As an assistant. Yeah so as an assistant I worked for I ended up working from idol I worked for any liewiz Martin Scholler Marco Gro um Chris Buck Steve Shore you know you know everybody in my so.

18:36.48
smacey
Crazy.

18:49.71
Jesse
And my space. Um and it was It was awesome. It was amazing. What? Ah what a what a fertile Master's degree program.

19:05.94
aaronmannes
Um, yeah, how I'm just ask the question. How.

19:06.70
Jesse
But I fell into there same same same concept with photography I just I just saw these people doing this work and I was like I am going to focus on figuring out how to work for these people and because they they have the answer they they they have. They have answers and not not necessarily the answer but they have answers that I don't have and so let me go let me go figure that out. Um, and I mean it's kind of it's. In a sense. It's a little boring the answer to this if you if you want to do something enough and you tell enough people about it and then you're good at it. You'll get you'll get there so I you know I just told everyone in my life that I wanted to work fornie leowitz and eventually a guy knew a guy that knew a guy that called me and was like hey come on. Come to set on Tuesday and all of a sudden I was driving a truck and being an assistant for Annie Lee Woods it's so it's it needs to be your people need to people need to associate yourself with with people need to associate you with.

20:19.65
smacey
Right.

20:20.16
Jesse
With the thing and and at that time I was I was photo assistant New York Photo assistant Jesse

20:26.90
smacey
So if you're you know you're saying I want to work for Annie Leewitz I want to work to for Annie Lee butts to everybody is that so that you're in people's mind for a potential recommendation. Should there be an ah should there be a space or an opportunity or is it.

20:44.69
smacey
More so telling people holds you accountable to get it to find a way to get that done right? because I'm I'm a big proponent of that if you tell people something you really want to do.

20:51.15
Jesse
Everything both all. Um, yeah.

21:02.95
Jesse
Since.

21:03.23
smacey
And you tell enough people your kind of your credibility's a bit at stake right? and it's for certain people. It's a nice pressure to put on yourself if you can manage it.

21:07.33
Jesse
Totally.

21:16.89
smacey
In other words like oh I've told all these people I've told all these people let's let's try and find a made way could happen make it happen. Otherwise my credibility is potentially shot can be a nice kicking the ass for some people should it be needed. You know I'm saying.

21:26.30
Jesse
Yeah, totally totally I know I agree I think both I think both those things I was I was looking I was just trying to assist I was trying to learn I was trying to do everything I could to learn as much as I could.

21:39.69
aaronmannes
Um, yeah.

21:42.30
Jesse
And and along the way I was talking about the people I wanted to work for and I was trying to work for them. Um, and once you it and again, another simple kind of boring answer once you get into the business like any business. Ah, you're in you're you're in a community and.

21:43.83
smacey
A.

22:01.45
Jesse
Things start happening within that space. You can't you can't be in without being in and so you know it's it's it's like a common refrain I'll hear from people is like I want to be an assistant and then I'm like okay, what do you do on the day-to-day. Like oh I work it I have a day job I'm like well then you can't be an assistant. Ah you know you're not going to work for your idols if you have a day job um or like ah or are people email like I'd love to assist you I'm available on Saturday Sunday monday.

22:23.39
smacey
Um, right.

22:36.15
Jesse
Like I don't know when my next Saturday Sunday Monday shoot is like let me know when you're available 24 hours a day. It's seven days a week um because those are the kinds of things that were expect of me back in the day things are changing a bit. It's not as type a insane.

22:37.33
aaronmannes
Are.

22:39.69
smacey
I'm right.

22:44.94
smacey
Um, right.

22:53.54
Jesse
As as it kind of used to be in that sense. But but certainly it needs to be your job and if it's not your job and and it's not your number one priority to want to work for these people then you you just have to be insanely lucky. You know you already have to be lucky. Even if you're trying.

23:08.64
smacey
Um, right.

23:10.27
aaronmannes
Are.

23:12.91
Jesse
If you're if you're if you don't have your clean you know, know number 1 the number one I the the number one desirable trade of a photo assistant is is availability nothing else, nothing else happens after that if you're unavailable so that's for step step 1

23:25.52
smacey
Um, right? That's the that's the foundation. Ah.

23:26.56
aaronmannes
Um, yeah.

23:31.81
Jesse
But step 1 be available step 1

23:32.86
aaronmannes
Step 1 be there I think there's also a lack of maybe fear and failure that you have ah well I mean to to put that out to everyone um, a lot of people could be like. You know any leave but it's like what are the chances that someone knows her like this is not going to like I'm just who I'm telling random strangers you know, but there's a um, there's a like oh that's that's probably not even going through the head. It's like what what are we aiming for what are we manifesting? What are we. Like what are we going for versus what could all go wrong like oh this is New York city there's 18000000 people like what are the chances you know, um, like doing that math I think a lot of people do that math whether they're you know, starting out. Musician or songwriter like oh but look at Spotify There's so many song like I'm never going to get breakthrough and you're already done right? Like you're already done if that's if that's the attitude.

24:30.49
Jesse
Yeah, yeah, you won't you can't he.

24:34.78
smacey
Um, that makes the assumption though if you say if you if you just make that if you simplify it that math and say oh well, there's 18000000 people. You're what are the odds. You're assuming that everybody is in a level playing field or equal skill or equally motivated or equally dedicated. And I think that's you know maybe to Jesse's point here even with just being available that sets you apart already from 90% of everyone else. So now you're not fighting 18000000 you're fighting 1000000? Okay, what sets me apart from those 1000000 that's.

25:01.11
aaronmannes
Um, yeah, yeah, yeah.

25:02.12
Jesse
Defma.

25:11.77
smacey
Maybe not even talent related.

25:14.43
Jesse
It's not. It's rarely talent related.

25:17.12
smacey
Um, right, which is just that's I think how you overcome that math.

25:23.97
Jesse
And the math Once you do all the things that to optimize that math. The math is still daunting. Don't don't don't mistake it in any way. Um, it's It's not good math. Um, but but.

25:28.64
smacey
Um, for sure.

25:35.72
smacey
So stop the equation there.

25:36.80
aaronmannes
Yeah, okay.

25:40.41
Jesse
But there it is better math than one in I'm just one person out of the entire New York city population certainly more than that.

25:49.22
smacey
Writes writes. So let's back pedal a bit and then we'll we'll probably finish the the latter half of this episode with portraiture. Um, you mentioned when you're in some some stories.

26:00.13
aaronmannes
And some stories I want stories.

26:02.81
Jesse
For this is.

26:04.78
smacey
Maybe there's you know some that can't be told. But you mentioned you know when you were going to work for these people your idols you were looking for answers and I'm asking answers to what questions at the time.

26:21.78
Jesse
How just how does this happen? Ah what the the shoot the picture. How is this picture happening. Um, which made me a pretty bad assistant at first I definitely got.

26:22.66
smacey
Right? This being right on.

26:34.16
smacey
So.

26:35.40
aaronmannes
Um, and.

26:39.28
Jesse
Fired from my handful of jobs. Um or not asked back. There's no there's not really firing doesn't really happen. But um, yeah I just was I just needed to know I saw those books. I mean to make it very linear I saw those books and then I needed to know how like how is this happening what kind of cameras are using what kind of lights are we using what kind of situations are we in. How was this famous person in front of us. Why is this famous person in front of us. Um, you know what are what are the problems we're trying to solve on this set like what. Does it look like when we deliver files to a client like what is it? What does the postproduction look like what is the pre-production look like what just like how how how um and yeah I was an assistant for 7 years something like that and by the end I learned I learned the answers I learned the how.

27:20.20
smacey
Um I.

27:28.65
smacey
Right? So Jesse was an assistant eron for longer than you've had a camera twice as long for some perspective of long term gratification.

27:34.20
aaronmannes
Um, yeah, it it shows. No they.

27:40.78
Jesse
I mean the the assisting itself was very gratifying I not to say it wasn't it was I got put in I met I've met the last 3 sitting presidents I've been in been in so the weirdest craziest places in the world. Um.

27:45.30
smacey
Um, this is true. Yeah.

27:58.25
Jesse
And I've had some literal one of a lifetime kind of experiences from assisting that I also get from shooting but ah, but the but but the barrier to entry on assisting is so much lower that it's just it's just pretty remarkable. So I really I Really personally really enjoyed assisting.

28:02.99
smacey
Are in it.

28:17.46
Jesse
Especially in hindsight.

28:19.82
aaronmannes
It begs the question you're assisting for 7 years ah and you have to be available twenty four seven that was one of your number 1 requirements. Um, sure sure but are you working other jobs to.

28:29.85
Jesse
It's an I mean a little bit of hyperbole. But yes, no a good assistant makes good money. Good assistant makes good money.

28:36.62
aaronmannes
Pay the bills are you? How are you getting by Okay, well that answers that question.

28:45.68
Jesse
Um, sure my first two years of assisting well my first two years of assisting I was still in school so like I was and I'm I'm a privileged dude so I was getting help from my parents at that moment that not everyone can get my first two years out of school. I was on my own and not making much money at all. Um, so you have to be you have to be able to be poor. Um, it's not It's not a assisting is not a job for someone with many dependents and many financial obligations, especially the beginning of assisting. Um, but once you once you establish some roots in the industry and in the profession you can make really good money assisting and it's a really good job I think I think assisting is a a job that provides a lot of stimulus a lot of exciting opportunities. Not a ton of long-term responsibilities. Um, and so it's the opera you have the opportunity to see and do a lot and you're not your career is not over if a picture is bad. Um, it's not your picture. Um. So you know a really great assistant feels the obligation to try to make the picture as best as possible. But you're not, you're not the name on the on the ticket you're not, you're not the buckers and stock with you? Um, so I mean that that's for the most part. Obviously it's a generalization but.

30:11.50
aaronmannes
Um, yeah.

30:21.13
Jesse
You end up working as our first assistant for any big photographer Annie or Mark or any of these people then like yeah obviously your your level of responsibility significantly increases. But those are those are there's 10 positions like that in the world. So.

30:39.51
aaronmannes
Um, yeah.

30:40.30
Jesse
If you actually want to do that as a as a living come talk to me. We'll have a hu but our own podcast about it discuss that later.

30:46.10
aaronmannes
A pros and cons list. Yeah, got you.

30:48.11
Jesse
There are many pros and cons.

30:52.85
smacey
I'm sure there are so let's ah, let's move this. Ah this journey along. So you're assisting for 7 years how do we go from that to eventually having our own studio and you know photographing people like Peter dinklagege Brian Cranston David Letterman

31:08.66
aaronmannes
Dave Crawl

31:10.29
smacey
Jody Foster the list goes on. How do we get there. Let's fill this gap as best you can.

31:15.71
Jesse
Well yeah, again, the short I mean the short we've already said the answer which is it's it's I was trying to get here from the beginning. Um, so it's not like a system ended and.

31:24.13
smacey
Um, right.

31:30.54
Jesse
And the journey began.

31:31.11
smacey
Um, let me ask a more detailed question Then how do you know it was time to when did you? How did you know? Okay, now now is my time to go off discover some autonomy do my own show. Do things my way with all I've learned.

31:43.55
Jesse
Sure well I thought it was time about 2 years before it was time which is which is tough. Um I was I was a first assistant on a shoot in the Obama white house that was the third time I was in the white house was the third time I had met the president as an assistant and.

31:47.47
smacey
Interesting.

32:01.66
Jesse
Right? before that job I said this is gonna be it I don't need to set up any more sea stands. Ah for for for this one next time. Hopefully I'll be the one with the camera in my hand and that after that job I quit assisting cold turkey deleted ninety. Percent of my income. 95% of my income. Um, and then I proceeded to not work for almost two years as a photographer which was tough um and you know during that interim period I was just it's a bit different now because.

32:39.56
Jesse
Physical physical meetings are no longer a thing really? Um, but I was physically going on a hundred meetings around the country bringing my book to places talking to them getting trying to get people to hire me. Um. And it took some time and and I thought I was ready I thought I was ready to jump because I had been getting art producers crave directors editors saying oh you I was on shootutes as an assistant they were saying oh you were you were up for this job and like we put your name in the ring and blah blah and so when you hear that and then. You also feel like you've assisted enough and you feel like you're not learning as much as you used to. You're like oh well if I quit assisting then I'll get those jobs and the reality is um, you know you know just because just because your hat's in the ring on a triple bid for for an advertisement doesn't mean that if you quit being an assistant you're going to get it. Um, you know I don't get lots of triple bids I'm in now and and I and I am an established shooter so a triple bit is when um, triple bids the bane of my existence and every every photographer's existence ah, triple bit is a.

33:45.81
aaronmannes
Um, what's a triple bid. Just.

33:57.90
Jesse
And agency or a client will come to you eraron and they'll be like we're going to shoot an advertisement for these beautiful all-bird shoes and we need you to bid it and provide us a treatment and they'll do that to 3 3 people and then they will present the person who makes the decision with those three documents.

34:16.60
aaronmannes
Gotcha.

34:17.10
Jesse
And um and then they will pick one. Um and if you are the 1 picked good for you man that's positive. Um, but.

34:24.69
aaronmannes
But it's kind of a guessing game in terms of pricing and what what's everyone else doing and what are we promising? Yeah, the art of the triple axle.

34:35.74
Jesse
This is another This is another completely different podcast. The art of the trip. The art of the triple bid. Um.

34:39.63
smacey
Figure your skating.

34:42.50
aaronmannes
Is that speeds the speed skining. Yeah figure skiating.

34:47.27
Jesse
The art of the triple bit is is a different podcast. Um, but nonetheless then I got I went into to Washington d c on meetings and I met with the the Washington posts. Um. This editor and she met with me. She was like yeah you seem cool here sign this contract and I signed the contract and then like next week she was like what are you doing on Thursday and I was like oh let me check my calendar that's completely open. Um and and she's like oh I've got I've got. Ah, Dina Menzel here at this time and you might have like 10 minutes or something. Do you want to do it're like all right yeahher and then and then the New York Times asked me for if Mike Myers and then the village voice asked me to photograph up Sharon Jones and ah.

35:39.90
Jesse
Then all these places started asking me to do stuff and it was kind of like the floodgates opened in my first year shooting I had 80 photo shoots something like that with celebrities and and people of note and that was ten years ago

35:48.77
aaronmannes
Wow.

35:57.74
Jesse
And 2014 so happy 10 year anniversary to me.

35:59.94
aaronmannes
Yeah, happy tenure for grants That's crazy.

36:00.67
smacey
Yeah, how rude of us we didn't We didn't offer you a happy anniversary back but we didn't know so it's okay, we didn't yeah we didn't know so.

36:06.75
Jesse
Yeah, okay well I'll forgive you.

36:10.42
aaronmannes
Now you said you didn't oh sorry, just quick question. You said you didn't photograph for 2 years was that because of assisting in like and ndas or just.

36:21.25
Jesse
Well I did I didn't work I didn't get paid to photograph for the most part for 2 years um I was I was done assisting I would refuse to assist I didn't look for any more assistant work and I told the people when the people called me I told them that I wasn't assisting anymore.

36:24.92
aaronmannes
Got you.

36:38.60
Jesse
And um, and then I didn't get hired really for about a year and a half two years um

36:43.64
aaronmannes
Yeah I was just curious if there was a like you're assisting these high up photographers with other companies and other things like if you leave and then take business or or get into your own business. Is there any like and Nda or like you you can't do that for a certain period of time. No.

37:01.48
Jesse
No no I mean there's There's a lot of ah unwritten rules and protocols. But ah listen the people I was working for wasn't worried that all of a sudden someone was gonna ask me to shoot their vogue cover. Um.

37:15.85
aaronmannes
Yeah gotcha.

37:18.69
Jesse
It's this is not um, very very rarely is ah is a high high level assistant. It's a different ballgame. Um, there was no, there was no physical or legal constraint. It was purely the fact that.

37:28.90
aaronmannes
Um, gotcha.

37:35.84
Jesse
People don't want to give money and responsibility to someone in their mid 20 s and and it took me until my late 20 s for people to be like oh yeah, you can do it.

37:45.14
aaronmannes
Yeah, what? What do you think open the floodgates was it that one contract in DC and then word of mouth was it old assist assistes no whom you assisted being like.

37:57.76
Jesse
it was just ah It was just a it was just a culmination of all the hard work I'd been doing and getting lucky and being prepared to being prepared to capitalize upon. Luck and an opportunity and like doing an amazing job doing the job above and beyond what the expectations were of the job and making sure I got hired back and then as soon as you're shooting. 1 thing. You've got a great. Marketing tool to go tell people you're working. Um I don't think no one was like get me the guy that did it did photographed demons zell for the post. It was more like oh you just did the thing for the post I'm like oh we got this thing and like but it just it's a little um it was a more of a culmination in my opinion.

38:28.81
aaronmannes
Yeah.

38:45.41
aaronmannes
Um, yeah.

38:48.14
Jesse
But again, you'd have to talk to the people that picked up the picked up picked up the keyboard and asked me what to do the thing. What but motivated them. Ah.

38:55.49
smacey
Um.

38:57.92
aaronmannes
Yeah, for sure and um, it's interesting. The the assisting for so Long. You're around these big shoots you're around these big personalities and these big names and as you mentioned before the the buck didn't stop with you with the the pressure of performing. However, being in the game must have helped the nerves of like oh now they're calling me from the bullpen like I have to go down and like here's this big name but I've been here before I know I know it I know the nerves that come with it. I.

39:23.62
Jesse
Kather.

39:31.20
aaronmannes
I've seen how people react I've seen big names in how they react or how they act or their personalities did that comfort level. Do you feel like really help in your transition.

39:43.32
Jesse
It was all extremely familiar to me I I felt I mean listen none of it is comfortable. Never it's never comfortable. Anyone who says it's comfortable. It's not probably. It's not. It's not comfortable for anyone. Um, the pressure is high.

39:54.19
aaronmannes
Um, yeah.

40:00.20
Jesse
Um, you know it's like condensing the the way to equate it to like to to like you're it's like condensing a wedding shootdown into 5 minutes you know like you're never gonna get the opportunity again. Um your stuff has to work like you have to everything happens. It's a one. It's a 1 ne-time deal um, so the pressure is high no matter who you are um and and what you're doing I also felt uniquely qualified because my father was in the music industry growing up and I was going to a lot of concerts from the age of 5 and going into these into these. Um.

40:38.65
Jesse
Dressing rooms and and backstage areas with these people that I didn't know but I knew were they some they were famous and I was kind of being taught how to interact and socialize in those situations from a very very young age. So once I started shooting I noticed.

40:52.60
aaronmannes
It's interesting.

40:55.92
Jesse
I was using a skill set that was really familiar to me like ingrained in me and that was the shaking. Someone's hand who's famous and being able to talk to them like a normal person.

40:59.72
smacey
Um, yes.

41:07.98
Jesse
Um, that's that's something that you didn't get from being a photographer because again, you're the assistant from being the assistant because you're the assistant. You're kind of not to be seen or heard unless unless asked um in most scenarios. So. I got the technical know-how from being an assistant and I got the idea of what it would be like from being an assistant but the the communication and the um and the interaction with subjects was something that I was really lucky to have. Experience with as as ah, a young person up until I was 18 or so um and I could never have known that until I started shooting that I was gonna be so beneficial.

41:48.42
aaronmannes
Very cool.

41:49.47
smacey
I Yeah I head in my notes. The question is the difference How you treat a celebrity photo shoot versus a non-celebrity photo shoot if there were significant differences to that.

42:06.76
Jesse
Well I don't treat it any differently personally that in in mindset The the differences are usually time. Um, and so time is such a.

42:14.38
smacey
Okay, okay.

42:23.10
Jesse
Forceful factor in what you're doing and how you're doing it that the shoot has to look a certain way based on the time. Um, so.

42:39.33
Jesse
I mean I think the one of the reason why my work looks the way it does and looks the way it does across whether I'm photographing someone who's famous or not is that I treat it very similarly I treat the people very similarly. Um, but but yeah time time is the main issue time is the main factor that differentiates between someone who's like. Famous or not famous and doesn't even they don't need to be famous to not have that much time and sometimes people who are famous have a lot of time so you know it just depends.

43:01.51
smacey
Right? right? right.

43:03.67
aaronmannes
Yeah, and you and you said literally 5 minutes is that like an actual timeframe for a potential shoot like we have 5 minutes

43:10.75
Jesse
Yeah, well I mean like some of the most stressful situations I've ever been in I mean I when I photographed the star wars cast I was I was told I'd have 15 minutes this was a cast of like 15 or ten twelve people or something and total eyes have 15 minutes and then I learned it was 15 minutes for or no I was told I have 30 minutes and I learned it was 30 minutes for the interview and the photo shoot and so I was like okay so maybe I have 15 minutes and then that turns into like you have 10 um because the guy who's the writer is got more. Leverage than you because they're hired by the publication and then 10 minutes turns into it takes like 7 minutes to get everyone to sit down and be quiet. Ah, and then you end up having about 3 minutes to take a picture. Um.

43:59.51
aaronmannes
Um, yeah, but.

44:07.19
Jesse
Before everyone is being whisked away out of the room so it can be less than 5 minutes um you know some of the most famous people I photographed has been around 5 minutes I would say the average is really 20 to be honest, but um, but it can get it can get tight and it can get.

44:26.20
aaronmannes
These photos they might come from different directions different motives like the cover of XYZMagazine or this is for a piece we're doing or this is a head shot or like whatever it may be so is is there a director that's like we don't want smiles or we want big smiles like.

44:26.77
Jesse
Stressful.

44:37.72
Jesse
Yeah, yes.

44:44.97
aaronmannes
Is someone coming to you with what we need to do or are you asking for the input of you know Dave Gros in front of you and you're like hey what are you feeling man. We got 5 minutes like what do you want to do.

44:56.50
Jesse
I'm not usually what do you want to do? um I don't want to leave ah 5 minutes up to someone who might not have a strong feeling about what they want to do and then that's just wasting time. So I'm not usually asking what a subject wants to do.

45:06.40
aaronmannes
Um, yeah.

45:12.28
Jesse
Um, I'm usually giving the subject some different ideas of what I want to do and listening to them if they if they do or do not want to do be part of that I mean it's obviously a any portrait is a give and take and it's a collaboration between subject and photographers. So um. So. It's certainly not super directive necessarily um, but it depends on the client. It's everything Everything is its own unique situation and most often I'm it. It just totally depends. It depends on shoot I'd have to tell you. Um, but so I can get anything from a lot of direction to no direction Honestly, Um, and it's never it's never the same amount of direction depends on your client depends on your editor depends on your subject depends on the day.

46:05.18
aaronmannes
That makes sense.

46:05.30
smacey
Well let me ask then across the board based on all these changing variables. What's essential to a successful studio or Portrait shoot within your control whether that's gear wise, attitude wise, etc.

46:26.46
Jesse
What's essential I mean gear wise I try to make it as simple as possible because it's It's a variable that I know I can control. Um I try to control all the variables that I know with her in my control which are the things that you just talked about my my attitude. My equipment I bringing I'm bringing I'm trying to set the scene in the mood bring in music Um, having a highly curated playlist bringing previous work to show the person so they're aware of the kind of work I make and the level of work I make and what to expect from the experience. Bringing inspiration pictures of things that we might want to try poses Feelings Moods thoughts um and bringing up I think is the most essential part of my work is being. Open and available to understand what is the best way to handle this situation and having the bandwidth to be like this person who is in front of me Needs. An upbeat person right now this person who's in front of me needs a more subdued personality person right now this person needs me to make a self-deprecating joke this person needs me to tell a story this person needs to hear different music. This person is feeling uncomfortable this feeling a person's feeling too comfortable.

47:57.51
Jesse
Like having the ability to be aware and assess what is in front of me in order to put that headspace and that person into a place that is going to make the picture I want to make is the number 1 um, is the number one requirement.

48:20.66
smacey
Know makes sense Excellent answer. Um so what makes a photo reports it with a human subject in it. You know what makes a photo like that leave an impression on an audience or a viewer in your opinion right.

48:34.93
aaronmannes
Um, that's a good question I like that question and I've been thinking that.

48:38.85
smacey
And I know this is I'm simplifying a complex topic but do your best I'm aware.

48:47.88
aaronmannes
Yeah, and I think the analogy sometimes like someone that plays guitar watching a guitarist is like Wow like that is intricate and difficult and I don't know if I could ever get there someone that just likes music will be like ah yeah, that sounds good right.

49:03.63
smacey
Right.

49:05.63
aaronmannes
But I want to know like portrait photography is different than I mean Seth and I have probably have ideas on a landscape or wildlife. Um, or what makes a good cabin shoe. You know those are some of the things that we've done but in terms of portraits from ah from someone that's done it for so long like what differentiates.

49:25.50
aaronmannes
Photo of someone versus a portrait of someone that's going to go into your book. Yeah, but yeah, but what's the emotional piece.

49:27.91
smacey
Um I think think leaving an impression now leaving an impression is different from a good photograph.

49:38.18
Jesse
I Mean well what I'm trying to do I I Honestly can't speak for other people I mean I think that that is ah a question that you probably could run a university course on is what is it? What is a good picture. What is art. You know what.

49:46.72
aaronmannes
And.

49:48.12
smacey
Right.

49:55.36
Jesse
These are questions that are for academia but what I what I'm trying to accomplish is making it feel like the viewer was sitting where I was sitting that they that they feel like they met this person like I met them and that that I'm transporting. My experience through the image to the person looking at it being like oh that the well someone walking away with I feel like I know that person in a way that I didn't know them before is what I'm trying to accomplish. Um, you know I love it when people. I know I'm doing my job when when people will reach out to me and and say oh I saw like you photographed this person and I know them and it was them. You know, um, and so when people say that you're like oh yeah, okay I got it. Um, you're that's my goal. Um, but as far as like looking at other portraits on whether they think they're good I mean depends on what day of the week in mood I'm in you know I like so much I'm a photo historian in my own rate or whatever. Ah.

50:57.69
smacey
Um, who.

51:13.86
Jesse
Historians probably too strong of a word I'm a photo portrait enthusiast in my own right? and so I love I love portraits that feel like that. The technical ability is terrible but they've got an emotion that just can't be captured anywhere else like a David Bailey and I love portraits that are extremely germanic and feels like you're taking a still life of a human like ah you know Martin Scholler does kind of like that and um or an angus. Um, what's the guy's name I'm here to forget by a lot of german a lot of german photographers have that vibe. Um, Marco Grob kind of has that vibe too where you're kind of taking a still life of a face. So I think I think it depends. It's like asking like who is a good cinematographer. You know, ah a good cinematographer is. Utilizing their craft to tell you a story. Um, so what kind of story are you trying to tell and ah, what are your end goals and so I think a really good photograph is hitting those goals hitting those goals that you wanted to and having the. Audience recognize those goals without you having to spell it out for them. They're seeing it in picture.

52:31.10
smacey
Um, that's yeah I Love that last little bit there you know having your audience get it without explaining it. That's incredible.

52:36.22
Jesse
Yeah, when someone can tell me what my work is about and I don't have to tell them what my work is about then I know I'm doing my job.

52:45.45
smacey
Um, that's yeah, that's amazingly well said. Um.

52:49.93
aaronmannes
and and I mean let me ask this question. Don't hit me through the the podcasts mechanisms that we have um I was going through your work and I'm big Gary Clark Jr Fan and

52:55.71
smacey
Um, he might.

53:04.45
Jesse
Um, yeah, as am I.

53:06.21
aaronmannes
Got to that spot and I went oh cool and then beyond the coolness of the photo and looking at it and then you see the words you talk about basketball fatherhood music and then there's this, there's this next level connection where I go I love music I'm a father. And I love basketball like there's this next level connection with words that I would not have gotten to so I guess my question is what to you? What level of importance. Do you know I know a photo is worth 1000 words but sometimes a caption.

53:27.98
Jesse
Ah, yeah.

53:43.44
aaronmannes
Really can make a photo or a little ah blurb about it. Um, in terms of writing that connection to the photo. Can you expound on that a little bit in terms of you know that's some of your feeling some of your emotion gets tied into that moment. But it translated to me the viewer.

54:04.50
Jesse
Yeah I mean I've turned into an author. Ah you know I have 2 books with stories about these shoots and the pictures in them. The pictures of them and the stories behind them and the stories about my process really to pick the words are really just about my process and my experience.

54:14.25
aaronmannes
Um, very cool.

54:21.42
Jesse
Um, that's the only thing I can really speak to with any authority and so I a common theme throughout my work is what am I relating to with these folks who I don't know um and that's something that i'm. Trying to do with almost every photo shoot is get into people's biographies getting and get into their interests figure out a way for us to connect over something that's common. Ah, you know, um. People people end of end of description feel ah feel more comfortable with people that they are like around them and so you will I mean through. Through parroting through commonplace who they grew up through common interests through common friendships or or knowing people that each other knows all of these things are giant are immensely helpful. When you're trying to get someone to trust you and to open up to you so I'm I'm constantly trying to employ those tactics and those tools to to get the person to get comfortable and I did my research on Gary beforehand I mean they we have a.

55:51.49
Jesse
Shit ton in common excuse my language you know music Huge part of my life musics his whole life. We're both new. We are both new Dads at the time we both love ball like we both? Yeah, it's It's just like these are things that you can talk about with anybody. Um, and.

56:03.20
aaronmannes
Are.

56:11.35
Jesse
And all of a sudden it feels like he's talking to somebody that he is not meeting for the first time and that's intra inrical to to my process.

56:16.16
aaronmannes
Um, yeah.

56:24.26
aaronmannes
That's very cool that makes ah I mean a ton of sense and live live action. That's what happened to me so just going through the work and reading those little blurbs the the picture draws you in and then the words give you like that that extra that connection I think.

56:33.10
Jesse
Great.

56:39.95
Jesse
Great. Thank you, Thank you sir.

56:41.78
aaronmannes
So job. Well done. Bravo man.

56:42.35
smacey
Yeah, this is a nice wrap up because you know the very last thing I had on my notes was it was going back to that statement. You made about what you're trying to do you're trying to transport the viewer the audience to where you were and I was going to ask you? you know why is that important right. And I think we've kind of answered it here. You can elaborate if you like but ultimately it just seems like it's important for human connection. It's important for Relatability. It's important to feel like hey I'm not I'm not so isolated in this world. There's people who think like I do there's people who challenge the way I think there's people who. You know or maybe going through the same thing I am so correct me if I'm wrong but is it important because of human connection or is it is it more than that am I oversimplifying.

57:31.58
Jesse
I Think that's true I mean I think my work is a constant search search for human connection and um, and yeah I think that that's a major a major player behind my work I think it's also I think it's also interesting to look at. These I think I think there's a lot of things I think I I like the fact that I can take a picture of a famous person or not famous person and that they'll look so similar and even the playing field. Um that that you know famous people are just people and people are just people and there's not um. Hell a whole lot of difference between the 2 in a lot of respects I like that concept I like the concept that ah of humanizing these people that are very pedal put on Pedestals. Um. I Like taking them off that ah not in a negative way. Um, and and I find that process to intrigue me and intrigue and make and to make for intriguing Work. Um.

58:27.13
smacey
And you know, yeah understood Yeah I know what you mean.

58:43.53
Jesse
But yeah, it's all about connection. I mean that's my my work I get so much juice and so much adrenaline and so much dopamine from connecting with these people and it's it's remarkable I mean it's exhausting. Ah, it's It's my work is really exhausting to do mentally? Um I'll do these shoots where I'll go in and I'll I'll like do a re ah a rebrand for I'll.

59:11.89
aaronmannes
Um, yeah.

59:20.90
Jesse
A Rebrand for a brand and take portraits of a whole brand or something or a whole business or company and like I'll do it'll do twenty of these pictures in a day and I'm just just wiped I'm just totally wiped and my assistants will be like oh my god like.

59:31.60
aaronmannes
Toasted.

59:37.56
Jesse
Yeah, it's like you went on twenty first dates today and like it feels like it went on twenty first dates today. Oh man this is intense. Um, but that's what's so cool about it and I get to you just get to you get to ask people questions that you could never ask and if you don't have a camera in your hand.

59:44.30
aaronmannes
Yeah.

59:56.72
Jesse
Um, I'm I'm kind of getting off the topic of your question where I'm just kind of talking about why it's exciting for me personally not necessarily for the viewer but selfishly selfishly. It's extremely. It's extremely rewarding and um and it gets that.

59:58.87
smacey
Now What's good. Yeah.

01:00:16.33
Jesse
You you you keep getting this this like Newness this new this new hit of connection that that is your job to get which is is freaking awesome.

01:00:27.10
smacey
Yes, Sir unbelievable.

01:00:30.74
aaronmannes
So maybe I mean I got ah I got to ask and we can cut if we if we went too long but we got we got a couple minutes left for sure. Um I I would love to leave with like there's got to be in in your years this this memorable.

01:00:33.77
Jesse
No, you can get I'm around man I can keep talking.

01:00:48.69
aaronmannes
Like you wouldn't believe this story like there's got to be. There's got to be good or bad like whatever it may be leave names in leave names out like whatever but there's got to be this like you will be telling your great grandchildren about this story because it's so aft.

01:00:50.70
Jesse
Um, ah.

01:01:06.55
aaronmannes
Or so amazing or so whatever like just this crazy. Yeah.

01:01:08.62
smacey
Lynch.

01:01:10.60
Jesse
I would say the commonality and the craziness is always the is always the unknown in the curveball I mean like every shoote has it some to put a sports metaphor on it. Every shoote has it some some have a bigger break than others some are hanging.

01:01:18.75
aaronmannes
Um.

01:01:29.88
Jesse
Some some really really screw me up. But but those are the stories that just and and I write about all of them I'm an open book. You can go to my Instagram all of these stories are there. There's nothing that I don't tell. Um. You know there's a way to tell you stories without you know, being negative. Um, ah, but yeah I mean I've been I've been told I have 2 hours and then have 2 minutes I've been told I'm going to shoot.

01:01:52.54
aaronmannes
Um, yeah.

01:02:04.47
Jesse
In this place and I've gotten there and set up and then I've had someone come in and say you have to leave. You can't shoot here that's happened to me multiple times. Talk about it. Talk about a curveball there being like well the person's going to walk in in 5 minutes and I guess I'm not doing a photo shoot now. So what am I gonna do about this? Um I've I've had.

01:02:12.10
aaronmannes
She's.

01:02:21.17
aaronmannes
Yeah, ah.

01:02:23.85
Jesse
Extreme the most famous people in the world I've had Taylor Swift walk onto a photo you'd set of mine when I was photographing someone else and I didn't know she'd be coming so you're like well what do you do now that Taylor Swift's in the room watching you do your work. Ah yeah, what if she just joined the podcast I was like hey guys I'm just Goingnna watch just gonna watch you guys interview Jesse.

01:02:30.24
aaronmannes
Wow T swizzle.

01:02:42.46
aaronmannes
Um, I have so many questions for she's just watching. Yeah.

01:02:42.88
Jesse
That's what well nobody but she's not gonna answer any of she's just watching. Um, ah you know talk about some pressure pressure there. All of a sudden. Yeah high viewing party. Um I've been on a shoot and the president has walked in the room and I was not expecting the president to walk in through. Um.

01:02:56.16
aaronmannes
Wow.

01:02:59.66
Jesse
And all of a sudden you're like I guess I'm meeting the president while I'm on my work on my job today. Um I guess I have to turn on that shoot we we started. We turned that he left and we turned around and we started photographing and we photographed for about 2 minutes without card in the camera we were so we were so so out of it.

01:03:01.18
smacey
If you.

01:03:17.52
Jesse
Like we are just not prepared for that. Um, you know I've I've just got out all kind you know flying on red eyes and then photographing Dave Groll after no ah, no sleep. Um, yeah, it's it's just all of the all of the stories are crazy in their own in their own right. Um, you know photographing Lauren Michaels on the set of Snl like getting to walk around the set of s I got to walk around the set of Snl by myself with no chaperone for 2 hours and just like look at every nick and nook and cranny and be like go back where the hosts walk out and see what that's like which is so.

01:03:47.16
aaronmannes
Really cool. So cool.

01:03:55.94
Jesse
Shockingly small like it's literally just a little like tiny backstage alcove that you walk through there's nothing behind there and and just being able to explore the entire set and then say hey I'm going to be able to put the creator of this anywhere I want in this room. Holy crap. Um.

01:04:09.39
aaronmannes
Over.

01:04:15.30
Jesse
You know I got I was on the top of the empire state building alone at 5 in the morning one time for a photo shoot. It's just ah, remarkable like there's just there's just so many and then and then people have been people have been horrible to me and I've been like you know what.

01:04:21.81
aaronmannes
So cool.

01:04:33.10
Jesse
We're good I'll see you later like you know like it's not all. It's all not all not roses and and candy. Um, you know people people have been looking over my shoulder and whispering my ear and screaming down my neck about.

01:04:35.48
aaronmannes
Um, of course.

01:04:47.30
Jesse
Things need to be done and things need to be over and and people in bad moods I've had people that don't talk to me on the shoot. They just stand there and you're like well how am I going to take a portrait of someone who's not going to say a word to me I've had that happen literally probably like 3 or 4 times where people just refuse to answer my questions refuse to talk to me.

01:05:00.63
aaronmannes
Wow.

01:05:00.87
smacey
Wow.

01:05:06.67
Jesse
Um, so that's that's a weird one? Um, but you know what you learn how to make a good picture in that scenario and and you walk away and you get something good. Um, and.

01:05:09.23
aaronmannes
That's a weird one.

01:05:19.39
aaronmannes
Um, yeah.

01:05:21.75
Jesse
There's a couple of those pictures that are in my books even though I did not tell those stories specifically in the books. Um, but I yeah it's it literally when you're photographing under these circumstances. Um, every single shoot has something ah and.

01:05:24.95
aaronmannes
Very cool.

01:05:36.90
aaronmannes
Um, yeah.

01:05:40.85
Jesse
Ah, that's why I write it right write write it down because like I don't know if I'll be talking to my grandkids about my specific shoots unless they ask me about a specific shoot I think that I'll be like you just read the book Man let's go playcing video games. Um.

01:05:42.80
aaronmannes
Um, enough murder.

01:05:49.93
aaronmannes
Um, yeah, yeah, it's funny. Yeah, ah so you're you're taking red eyes. Occasionally, you're tired. You might be sick one day like you must have the the Chris Farley moments where you're asking. Ah Paul Mccartney you remember that time you're in the Beatles. Ah, you have any of the do you have do you have any of those were 10 minutes later after the shoot you're in your car and you're like I'm an idiot like.

01:06:09.57
smacey
But.

01:06:09.79
Jesse
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, totally totally. Ah I've gotten I've gotten better I have to say like especially in the beginning of your career I had I Hope you know don't interview all of my assistants because they'll they'll remember a few things I've said that I would like to forget? Um, but ah.

01:06:29.22
smacey
Are.

01:06:34.31
Jesse
But I definitely have gotten better I've made I've worked really hard on getting better. Um, and yeah I've been I've been really sick on shoots and can't let anyone know, um this is You're absolutely right? I've had no sleep. Um I've had a shoot the day after my son was born.

01:06:49.14
aaronmannes
You and I.

01:06:54.71
Jesse
You know I've I've um I've been in some pretty challenging mental situations and I mean the other the solve for that is is just experience. Um, it's.

01:07:06.49
aaronmannes
Um, yeah.

01:07:11.38
Jesse
And and being able to say I got to get out for like 20 minutes I got ah I got to you know it's like I got 20 minutes where I got to do it and let's like after that I can pass out. Um and so.

01:07:19.75
aaronmannes
Um, yeah.

01:07:27.44
smacey
Um, brave.

01:07:29.55
Jesse
It's all about having the ability to snap out of it for however, long, you need to snap out of it to get the job done. But I definitely have had my what it was like to mean the Beatles moments. Yeah, totally the.

01:07:42.83
smacey
Um, well with that good friends I think that makes for a great up so Jesse Ditmar ladies and gentlemen. Thanks so much Jesse for joining us today. Um.

01:07:54.39
Jesse
Yeah, thanks for having me guys I Love the community that you're building. It's It's awesome I Think it's really really cool to be talking about the Mindsets I I think that people what your podcast gets at and what is true and what people should totally realize is that um.

01:08:11.68
Jesse
It's it's about more than the skill set. It's about more than the physical skills get and the ability to but operate the cameras having a career has actually very little to do with that. It's essential. But it's apps. It's it's not ah, it's not the biggest thing and to have a podcast that kind of explores that.

01:08:22.44
aaronmannes
Um, yeah.

01:08:29.64
Jesse
I think is very valuable to any any up and coming would be photographers aspiring photographers, etc, etc.

01:08:35.20
smacey
Well thank you man and and you got it without us having to explain it to you so I guess we're doing something right until next time guys. Thanks so much again. Jesse.

01:08:37.26
aaronmannes
Um, awesome kind words? Yeah, it's right? Thank you.

01:08:46.85
Jesse
Absolutely anytime.