Strategies to Land More Clients for Your Photography & Videography Business with Nash Hagen

In this episode, we sit down with Nash Hagen (@nashhagen), a renowned resort, hotel, and travel photographer, videographer and content creator coach.  We discuss powerful strategies for differentiating yourself and landing more clients in the photography business. With his expertise and experience in the industry, Nash shares valuable insights on how to attract and retain clients, navigate the competitive landscape, and elevate your photography or videography business to new heights. Gain actionable tips and inspiration from Nash Hagen in this episode focused on growing your client base.

You can find links to Nash's valuable assets including his Youtube by clicking this link: https://bio.site/nashhagen

If you're listening on Spotify you can now interact with us directly by typing your thoughts, opinions, or questions in the Q & A section. We read them and publish them. It's a great way to make these episodes more of a two way conversation so be sure to add your two cents after each episode!

Thanks to Tamron Americas for being our lead sponsor this episode! You can check out their website below to see their full lineup of camera lenses or visit your nearest photo retailer to purchase their products:
https://tamron-americas.com/

Make a donation via PayPal for any amount you feel is equal to the value you receive from our podcast episodes! Donations help with the fees related to hosting the show:
https://paypal.me/podcasttpm?country.x=CA&locale.x=en_US

Visit our website here: www.thephotographermindset.com

Visit our Youtube here for full interviews with video: https://www.youtube.com/thephotographermindset/

Thanks for listening!
Go get shooting, go get editing, and stay focused.

@sethmacey
@mantis_photography
@thephotographermindset

Transcript

INTRO:

00:00.00
smacey
Welcome ack to another episode of the photographer mindset podcast I'm your co-host Seth Macey and what do we get into today?

00:06.33
aaronmannes
And I'm your co-host Aaron Mannes man we had a school lesson. We went to school I feel exhausted with the homework.

00:13.70
smacey
We got schooled. We went to school today.

00:23.10
aaronmannes
That I have to do forthcoming. Ah yeah, Nash showed up. Um, he just really gave us like ah a beat down on. How to approach companies how to make pitches some some incredible tips. Some things I never thought of and it just makes me feel like this is my first day on the job just some obvious things potentially maybe not obvious I guess but they felt obvious ah and. That's the best kind of knowledge when it's like oh like why didn't I think of that that you know it's a good idea when you're like why didn't I think of that so that that was this episode times a million.

01:05.46
smacey
Yeah I don't have anything more to say than that other than I learned a lot and when your head hurts after an hour um you definitely learned a lot and I invite people to listen to it twice. You know I i.

01:09.18
aaronmannes
Yeah.

01:15.41
aaronmannes
Yeah, take notes.

01:19.13
smacey
And that's not just to get more listens like I listen to it in the recording and then I listen back when it gets published and there's things I missed and take notes seriously even if they're just mental ones even if they're just mental ones written down is better, but not if you're driving of course. Um.

01:25.40
aaronmannes
Um, yeah.

01:30.88
aaronmannes
Yeah, yeah.

01:38.19
smacey
But there is a lot of useful information in this if you're especially interested in how to scale your photography business to make it more of ah, an income and I think some some interesting tricks to go from. Cold email to in a Zoom to onset. So. There's not really much more to say than that other than you know I guess you have something to say here.

02:06.27
aaronmannes
Yeah, and I do I think too If you're if you've ah had any sort of trepidation or so or fear of like I don't want to reach out to company I don't know what I would even say I think he gives a true tested. Sort of just blueprint of like hey this works pretty well if you do it this way like I've tried it hundreds of ways This seems to get the best results and I think it would give the confidence to maybe give it a try if you were kind of unsure about how do you even approach a brand that you want to work with how do you even.? How do you set yourself apart I think this might give you the confidence to be like oh if I did it like that I think I can make some headway so hey without further ado I say we just get into it.

02:55.24
smacey
Yeah, well I mean I'm rest as soon as I'm you' off here I'm heading to his Youtube page to to school myself even more and kind of go through those and link to that is in the episode description. So.

03:04.31
aaronmannes
Soke it in.

03:10.29
smacey
Head there after this episode and message from our sponsor and we'll get right in.

INTERVIEW:

00:19.58
smacey
You know you can you can watch the same tutorial so many times and always find out something new or somebody's way of explaining something just kind of makes more sense to you than maybe somebody else. It doesn't mean someone is less of a youtuber.

00:20.97
Nash Hagen
7

00:32.59
Nash Hagen
Right? yeah.

00:34.27
smacey
Maybe right off the bat I'm speaking your language here but sometimes like you just you just get what people are saying it makes sense to you so I'm a big fan of watching the same title essentially the same title of a Youtube video or a tutorial like 5 times and just really burning it into my brain. Ah, but yeah, this osmo 3 is pretty cool to start not going to lie.

00:40.69
Nash Hagen
Um, any.

00:47.36
Nash Hagen
Yep.

00:52.43
smacey
Um, not sponsored by Dgi at all actually um, kind of had pains in the past with them with drone issues and stuff. But so far it looks like they've hit the mark with this and like as soon as I bought it I texted air and I was like check good. So look what I just got I don't buy a lot of gear I don't buy a ton of gear.

00:54.17
Nash Hagen
Um.

01:04.90
aaronmannes
Which is a rare. It's a rare purchase for you like purchasing you don't buy a ton so whenever you do I immediately drop everything and I'm like what.

01:05.60
Nash Hagen
Um, the eyes. Nice.

01:09.35
Nash Hagen
Um, I'm with you that much.

01:11.96
smacey
And yeah, well I take it upon myself. How can I I'm just like so into barter or like bartering. How can I cleverly figure out how to get something for free with my brain and with some elbow grease and some work and then when you know you pay full price for something you're like huh.

01:23.80
Nash Hagen
Totally.

01:30.24
smacey
Mean Yeah, my banking heads a little lower but that was pretty easy and now I don't have to do any deliverables. Yeah, it's so much easier. Just yeah, just pay for it right? anyways.

01:31.70
aaronmannes
Um I Wasway that's so much easier.

01:35.88
Nash Hagen
Don't have to give me 20 photos by real hope. Yeah, totally. Yeah yeah, no I'm with you on that though I don't I like rarely buy gear I know so many people are gear heads and stuff. But I'm like I mean.

01:40.37
aaronmannes
Yeah, that's funny.

01:53.27
Nash Hagen
What I have works and no client has ever said my quality's not good. So like what's the point. So yeah.

01:53.64
smacey
Right.

02:00.80
smacey
It's like whoa. You're only shooting with the a 7 3 na na no get off my site.

02:01.40
aaronmannes
Um, yeah.

02:03.69
Nash Hagen
Now I got the s 3 So so we're good. But I love it I shoot everything on it on occasion clients will need like a red but that's very rare. So yeah, every once in a while I'll I'll rent that. But for the most part it just.

02:06.14
smacey
Oh cool, How do you like that.

02:22.17
Nash Hagen
And takes care of the job. So and I love s long too I'm shooting on S Log and it looks great. So yeah, yeah, are you guys mostly photo only or well yes, the podcast.

02:22.34
smacey
Awesome.

02:26.23
aaronmannes
Yeah, it's key.

02:28.74
smacey
Cool.

02:34.57
aaronmannes
No, we're doing video right now. Yeah, get with the times Nash This is a video world. It's a video world.

02:36.45
smacey
Um, yeah.

02:42.60
Nash Hagen
That is true.

02:43.53
smacey
It's funny. We we brought up up a ton on our show. Ah like it used to be always. You know you see an awesome shot and okay I'm going to get a great photo and ah video is too hard I'm not even going to bother are the moments so fleeting especially because we do wildlife so you know.

02:55.11
Nash Hagen
Fear.

02:59.25
smacey
Got a photo great I'm happy with it. This moment may never ever happen again. But we're always trying to push the limits I guess right? if what are we doing here if we're not trying to improve right? So me personally I'm always thinking photo first now right? I mean a video first now. So and if I can get a great sequence.

03:08.12
Nash Hagen
Is that? yeah.

03:10.90
aaronmannes
Video First yeah.

03:17.87
smacey
Then I'll flip over to photo mode and capture some stills just because there's still a medium for that. It tells a different kind of story and we all need covers for reels. Um, not that That's the main attraction for photos. But.

03:32.63
Nash Hagen
And so yeah.

03:35.29
smacey
It's still' still you know, print still exists still still tell a certain story and um I don't think that kind of medium's going anywhere but video is just so much fun and you can tell so many more different kinds of stories I think because you add that fourth element of motion right.

03:49.60
Nash Hagen
Absolutely for sure.

03:50.23
aaronmannes
And and music sound everything like I mean it's incredibly emotional so you can really like key it into exactly what you're trying to portray you know. So yeah, it takes way longer.

03:52.24
smacey
Yeah, it's just so much fun.

03:56.24
Nash Hagen
Really,, It's just more engaging in general I think. Yeah, yes.

04:07.95
aaronmannes
Takes way longer to plan out and shoot and edit and just the editing editing choices like it's it's endless. But sometimes I miss just editing a photo for 20 minutes and being like that that was good. Let's post that up there. Boom done? Yeah, but.

04:13.99
Nash Hagen
Yeah.

04:19.16
smacey
Is.

04:24.57
aaronmannes
Ah, no, we both get into it. Um, but this isn't about us. Let's talk about you first of all, thanks for being on the show Nash um, he's you're all the way in Hawaii I mean yeah.

04:24.65
Nash Hagen
Yep, back in 2018 yep

04:33.83
smacey
Um, yeah man.

04:38.15
Nash Hagen
Yep, all the way like yeah, got the Hawaii theme got a surf for the palm tree. The whole thing sets got a palm tree that's cool. It is.

04:39.64
smacey
Surfboard behind them too.

04:44.88
aaronmannes
Yeah, as as winters. So and yeah, ah yeah I need a palm tree I'm um Palm tree less. So.

04:47.12
smacey
Yeah, it's not yeah, it's not real I feel like yours is real just full disclosure I knew my audience I Guess it's not a total accident.

04:57.40
Nash Hagen
There you go for sure. Yeah, ah you are maybe after this episode, you'll have to get 1 there you go.

05:03.55
aaronmannes
What can you do? I'm going to searchge on Amazon immediately immediately or the fakeree dot com. Whatever it may be. Ah, anyway, you're in Hawaii half the audience is pissed off now as winter sets in over here. But you mentioned earlier it's raining there. So.

05:20.11
aaronmannes
Ah, jokes on you. But yeah, yeah, well, that's what you get? That's what you get for rubbing it in.

05:20.51
smacey
Um.

05:20.74
Nash Hagen
It is right exactly? Yeah, one of the few days that are has reigned all day. So yeah, but yes I know right? yeah.

05:31.91
aaronmannes
Ah, well welcome to the show. We're gonna We're gonna go through your story. We're gonna go through. You know what got you here and I discovered I Guess the origin of this meeting is I discovered one of your reels and it really just struck me something that we've talked about in the past. How.

05:51.35
aaronmannes
No in terms of a pitch to a client is is nothing but sort of a data point and a learning opportunity to figure out all right. It's a no because why.

05:59.20
Nash Hagen
I yeah.

06:02.22
aaronmannes
It's not a failure. It doesn't mean pack it up. It doesn't mean go away it means let me just try to figure out what I need to do and I'm going to do this 100 more times and if I get a hundred nos it's still. It's still a win in the sense that I've learned a hundred times over what works at all what doesn't work. What.

06:19.45
aaronmannes
Completely doesn't work where I need to change and that really struck me as something Seth and I really talk about so I knew right away you kind of got that mindset of like let's go get it. Um and we like that and I I think our audience and and people out there.

06:21.56
Nash Hagen
Yeah, yeah.

06:35.84
aaronmannes
Um, there might be a little bit of trepidation with like going after a client or like they probably have their own marketing team or they probably have a million photographers they work with or I've seen a million photos better than me on this one day like scrolling through Instagram so why would they pick me. Um, we want to impart that sort of like why? not.

06:48.80
Nash Hagen
3 yeah.

06:55.12
aaronmannes
Give it a go and I think part of that real was like if they say no, you're in the same spot you were if you didn't even ask so Ah so yeah, tell us about ah your journey where you are where you've been how you got here and we'll just go from there.

07:12.18
Nash Hagen
Perfect. Absolutely I'd love to um so first of all I've been into the creative space or just interested in telling stories forever. Basically I started filming videos on my parents dad cam when I was at 8 years old would recruit my siblings to to be a part of it. They weren't always that excited because I was bossy a lot of times. Um, but you know we've made these little skits and videos and then during high school I did a video production class and got into that and just started to have more fun with it and realized that. People are actually making a career doing this like it wasn't just a fun hobby. It's like something I could actually make a living at which is cool but I had no idea how so I was like maybe the only option for me is to go to film school because at the time I wanted to be like a dp I wanted to work on movies. All that kind of stuff so I went to film school and. In film school. They teach you all kinds of stuff like how to light things how to frame how to tell stories how to write scripts all that kind of stuff. Um, which is great but I think the part that film school fails is what we're talking about the business side of things. Ah because like you can know you can be the best photographer in the world. But if you don't know how to pitch yourself. Or if you don't have the correct expectations going into a pitch then it it in a lot of ways. It doesn't matter. Um, so that's kind of a way that film school failed me in a lot of ways. Um, but I didn't know it until later on in my career. So.

08:37.32
Nash Hagen
After film school I ended up working on a series of different movies Tv shows all that kind of stuff I ended up moving to Hawaii actually because I was working on Hawaii five o because at the time I was still running I did jurassic world which was dope you for cool but I was a yeah.

08:46.22
aaronmannes
Sick sick. Well yeah, wide fivo Cleve your autograph. Ah.

08:46.88
smacey
Wow You see my face.

08:56.54
Nash Hagen
Yeah, we yeah dude we were like blowing up Helicopters and like crazy stuff like that. It was so much fun. But I was a Pa like kind of just watching it like I like the front row view but I was just telling the homeless people like not to walk in away the the scene you know so.

09:02.56
aaronmannes
Cheo sack.

09:12.30
Nash Hagen
I saw the dp I saw what they were doing but I wasn't like actually on the set. So after doing that for a while few months I guess I realized like the the only path through the film industry is is kind of militaristic in the way that you have to work your way up right. So you go from being a pa to being like a camera pa to a second ac first ac and then eventually maybe a camera op and then you know if you're lucky you get to be a dp unless you kind of just try to get your own gigs right? So that's the other option so that's what I start to do I was like well maybe I'll just try to get my my own jobs. Well like I said film school doesn't teach you how to do that. So I was basically finding ebooks on the internet I was looking at Youtube videos and kind of just copy and pasting a lot of scripts that I would find on blogs or whatever and of course most of the time they don't work because they're super generic and they don't speak to specific pain points or anything like that. Um, so yeah I ended up sending over 100 like Dms or emails and getting like 0 responses or just people saying we're not interested. Um, so you know that's that's super discouraging when you get to that level and you're like well you know if so many people talk about the hutle culture like just send. Send more do more work. Whatever but it's like if if we're doing more of the thing that's not working then it just like what's the point so at that point I had to figure out. Well maybe what I'm sending is is not working because it's it's not talking about the right thing which sent me on this whole journey of.

10:31.74
smacey
A.

10:44.23
Nash Hagen
Figuring out how to correctly speak to companies how to find the the right person to talk to what they're actually interested in how to frame it the right way. Um, and then over time I mean fast forward and and we can get into the story and everything but today I mean I've worked with 4 seasons Marriott royal caribbean. And Msc like basically the vast majority of the travel brands I probably worked with and it's because I realized these specific things that I'm sure we'll get into in terms of how to how to actually pitch clients. So yeah.

11:18.55
aaronmannes
That's awesome and that's a I mean you're the second I can't think of maybe Seth Ken there was another guest on that talked about film school and it just does not teach the business side of yeah I mean it's just a common theme that we've heard and it makes sense like we're gonna we're gonna teach you the art and the craft but there's.

11:23.98
Nash Hagen
I move right.

11:25.25
smacey
Oh who was that.

11:32.10
Nash Hagen
Yeah.

11:36.38
aaronmannes
There's no, you really need a minor in business as you're doing it or something to to figure out that side of it because to be good at photography or videography like I think Seth and I talked about it last week even like that's not enough anymore like.

11:38.15
Nash Hagen
She throw.

11:49.49
Nash Hagen
Me right.

11:50.19
aaronmannes
You need you need some other aspects. You need to be able to talk. You need to be able to pitch you need to be able to have a conversation and to be represent yourself represent the Brand um stories narratives like you have to be able to present it all and.

11:51.62
smacey
Um, and.

11:56.56
Nash Hagen
Yes.

12:05.67
Nash Hagen
Early.

12:08.46
aaronmannes
Just being able to use a camera and know the the exposure Triangle I Don't think it's going to do it anymore. You know unless you're working for someone and that's your that's your sole job I So I suppose.

12:11.64
Nash Hagen
Yeah f row.

12:16.44
smacey
Yeah I think we talked about how you can't be just good I think we were speaking in the social media sense to stand it on social media. Everybody is so amazing. So oh here's a video of a wolf or oh here's this epic travel video. There's a million of those. So I think our point was okay in that sense we got to be.

12:30.71
Nash Hagen
Yeah, yeah.

12:31.97
aaronmannes
And time.

12:36.17
smacey
More than just what we're presenting you know and I think our example was including ourselves in in little clips. But maybe this is a good question is being is simply being talented or great. Good enough in the commercial sense where you're not looking for online visibility. You're not looking for any of that stuff I mean I suppose you could say.

12:38.10
aaronmannes
Hope.

12:41.66
Nash Hagen
1

12:55.83
smacey
It's always about being more than being really good. You know you have to know how to network with people you have to know the right things to say you need to know when to back off when to push but you know I think that that is being good. An overall general sense or being really good or better than others. You know what? I'm saying.

12:59.38
Nash Hagen
Lovely.

13:11.41
Nash Hagen
Yeah, so when you refer to good I'm assuming you're talking about like creative skill right.

13:15.48
smacey
Yeah, just like from the raw sense of this person really knows how to work a camera. They know how to take a photo. There's so many of those right.

13:21.61
Nash Hagen
yeah yeah I mean so totally and anymore that's it's a commodity right? Like there's there's fifteen year olds that can operate a camera or can operate their phone in a very similar way that you know some professional corporations can do and from what I've found and this is really interesting.

13:28.40
smacey
Um, me.

13:41.57
Nash Hagen
Is the way you pitch yourself Nowadays is not like this is the quality of my work or it's better quality than somebody else because that's kind of originally how I was doing it and it can always find someone who's going to be better. They can always find a production company that has.

13:50.71
smacey
M.

13:58.30
Nash Hagen
You know more experience or has worked on bigger projects or whatever right? So if you're playing that game then you can't really compete with a production company. That's been in business for 40 years you just can't so the only option there is to lower your price which you can only lower to 0 and if you're lowering to 0 like you don't have a business as a hobby you may as well. Just go get a job right.

14:06.69
aaronmannes
Um, yeah.

14:07.51
smacey
Right.

14:17.72
Nash Hagen
So the option instead of doing that that I've found is to actually differentiate yourself in a different way other than your creative which was what we were talking about is actually coming up with strategy for how brands can use the video so instead of just saying hey I'm going to shoot a thirty second ad for you and you have a good day. Have fun right.

14:29.54
aaronmannes
Are.

14:36.48
Nash Hagen
We can actually come up with strategies of how they can use this content and strategies of what types of audiences we're hitting and why we're doing certain things. So then we almost become like a marketing strategist versus just solely an editor or solely a video production company I use this example, sometimes it is.

14:50.96
smacey
Bright.

14:55.15
Nash Hagen
You know say a company has $100000 ad budget to to throw at a video right? They could go hire some production company for a hundred g's and they could produce something that looks incredible. They could run it on tv whatever that doesn't mean they're gonna get any kind of roi on it though, right? because maybe they produce a movie. And looks incredible, but it doesn't convert to any kind of sales form. So it's a waste of money right? So but on the flip side you could pay. You could pay some kid five hundred bucks to make a Tiktok video that's shot on a phone and if it hits the right audience at the right time with the right message. It could go viral. Get. Whatever you know 10000000 views and be the biggest ah roi the company's ever had so it becomes less about I guess the actual tangible result of how it looks creatively and more about what kind of results that's bringing the company and of course as creatives. We want to make it look as good as possible, but the the balance is how do we make it look. As good as possible but also take that aspect of the marketing with it. So that now we can't be compared to other people if that makes sense.

16:00.53
aaronmannes
Yeah, it does make sense and I mean to dig in pretty specific here. Ah like you just said a 5 second Tiktok video that I mean could reach 500000000 views and have the best ah ro I that they.

16:04.51
Nash Hagen
I.

16:16.91
Nash Hagen
Under.

16:17.80
aaronmannes
That they've ever seen you know versus that $100000 scripted thing with production. Let's close down this town like you know they're they're spending a ton of money and they might they might miss the mark that five second clip might miss the mark but it was a 5 second clip for probably not 100 grand that five second clip might hit the mark. And and like that a lot of effect just go go bonkers. So when you're building in this sort of aspect. There is a little bit I mean I don't know if there's a system that anyone understands the algorithm completely like this video will get 500000000 views I don't I don't know if anyone can say that.

16:38.98
Nash Hagen
Yeah.

16:50.18
Nash Hagen
No yeah, um.

16:55.31
aaronmannes
But they have certain formulas that that might get a better chance of doing that there might be certain things that have a better chance. Do you work that into your sort of return on investment for you in terms of a budget like hey I'm going to do this video. It's at base rate it's X but.

17:12.45
aaronmannes
If this goes nutty and it's going to return a ton of views and sales for you. Ah I expect this much more in terms of the budget. But that's only if it performs.

17:12.52
Nash Hagen
My.

17:19.28
Nash Hagen
Yeah.

17:27.47
Nash Hagen
Totally um, so there's a few different ways that I've personally done it. So if it's just a one off video I actually haven't done that before but I would probably use this similar concept to what what I'm about to say is say I'm on a retainer where I shoot 15 short form videos for a company in a month right so that's they're just going to post it organically and I'm not posting it to my page or anything I'm just giving it to them now. So say it's just a flat rate of whatever foregrain for that now say that one of those videos specifically does really well and they're like hey we could actually run this as an advertisement because obviously it killed it organically. Um I give them the option to essentially license it as a commercial ad and then I take a percentage of whatever the revenue is like if it's an ecom product take a percentage of whatever revenue is generated off of that ad creative. Um, you know so for the the duration of however long they want to run that for. So that way. Obviously you're incentivized to make the best product or the best creative possible. They're incentivized to just run it to the moon because it works for them and then you get a kickback on doing good work and another way that you can kind of do this is like say you find something that works well organically you can just take the exact same video. But film a different hook at the beginning so a different like 3 or 5 second clip to put at the beginning and basically split test it so you have almost unlimited versions of it. So.

18:53.50
aaronmannes
Yeah, that's smart and and just a technical question like if they like um again, let's say a Tiktok or a reel that's 16 by 9 vertically and they're like we want to run this as an ad are they talking we want to just put money behind it on on Instagram reels and and.

18:56.58
Nash Hagen
Um, this yeah.

19:11.22
aaronmannes
And play it the same way or are they saying we want to make this like a Tv ad and we're going to do it. You know landscape 16 by 9 horizontal I'm just curious I'm just curious in terms of your filming style like do you go out being like this is just going to be vertical. Maybe I'm asking because I always have an internal battle in my head with like.

19:18.76
Nash Hagen
Yeah, um.

19:28.21
Nash Hagen
Literally.

19:31.10
aaronmannes
Which way do I want to film this because where's the final thing going to land and and where's it going to look best and then can I splice it to 16 by 9 vertically or should I just start that way or will I be able to stretch it out the other way. So I'm I'm just curious maybe in that.

19:44.68
Nash Hagen
Yeah, so that's something that you would talk to the client in Pre- bro like hey what are we going to use this for if we're on a reals retainer like the one that I just explained then I'm probably going to shoot that vertical.

19:51.27
aaronmannes
Um, and.

19:58.64
aaronmannes
Yeah, that makes sense.

20:00.12
Nash Hagen
Just because that's that's where it's going to live and when they run it as an ad it would probably be on social so on Instagram Tiktok whatever it is now if they say hey we want a version of this that we can have be horizontal in case, we want to run as a Tv ad or just a horizontal whatever Youtube ad or something then I'll probably shoot that horizontal. And then if I have time depending on how long the shoot's going to go if I have time? whatever then I might try to shoot that same shot vertical obviously not all the time are you able to do that. You don't have the luxury of that all the time but or like if I'll I'll shoot resorts right? and some of this stuff. It's like we're shooting a shot of.

20:28.32
aaronmannes
Um, right.

20:38.24
Nash Hagen
The the entrance and there's nobody in the shot. So it's real easy to just flip the camera and get ah a vertical version of it. You know for stuff like that then I'll do that just to make sure I cover my bases. Um, but if if I know there's a chance that I'm Goingnna have to have it be horizontal then I'm gonna shoot horizontal every time and then just crop in for the shorts.

20:56.37
aaronmannes
Makes sense.

20:57.80
Nash Hagen
Yeah.

20:58.58
smacey
Yeah, totally I'm looking into your bio site right? now you know or link treee or whatever people want to call it and you know you have 2 links, you're pricing calculator free trial and make $10000 a month shooting content. My question to you is is is maybe a 2 wo-parter the first one is.

21:01.50
Nash Hagen
Right.

21:11.33
Nash Hagen
I.

21:17.36
smacey
This may be a simple answer Why share that if it's a competitive industry and what's your response to people who say oh if they really knew what they were doing. They wouldn't be like they wouldn't need to sell it. You know you ever see those kinds of comments. What do you? What do you say to.

21:30.56
Nash Hagen
Yeah, oh hundred percent all the time.

21:35.28
smacey
Yeah, what? What do you say to that. So I Guess why share and you know I'm just saying this to explore you know this topic. Of course we want to build up together I don't want to give the impression that it's all about me. Um, but you know it's a genuine question in a competitive Industry. You know, potentially people can encroach on your your revenue. And yeah, the second part. Why do um, what's your response people who say off they were making that much money they wouldn't be selling you a course or whatever.

22:04.50
Nash Hagen
Um, so there's a few answers to that first one if you look at my Youtube channel um I post pretty much exactly what to do? Um I don't hold back like the stuff I talk about on my Youtube channel is stuff that people are charging too grand in a course for.

22:07.10
smacey
Um, sure.

22:18.70
smacey
Um, right.

22:19.69
Nash Hagen
Um, and the reason I do that is because I know that 99.7 of the people are going to watch it and do absolutely nothing with it. So it doesn't matter I know it's really sad. It's really sad, but it's just true.

22:28.25
smacey
Um, that's so sad. Did you hear my genuine sadness.

22:29.88
aaronmannes
yeah yeah I did I saw a little tear I think now now that we're on video I see the tears Seth and everyone else can yeah.

22:36.84
Nash Hagen
Um, it's It's just true.

22:39.46
smacey
Um, we'll get back to that. We'll get back to that stat I'm gonna let you finish your thought I I and I know but like it's it's up there for sure. It's up there for sure I don't mean literally.

22:45.98
Nash Hagen
Yes, yes, well I don't know if that's ah exact so we we might have to act check that? Yeah no, but it's yeah because I think about what it takes to to run a successful creative business like you guys obviously know this. But. First of all, you have to be good at the creative Second of all, you have to actually get clients results because like they could hire you and if you don't get them results then they're going to find someone else right? You have to know how to run a business in terms of the accounting the marketing how to run sales calls how to constantly be getting influx of bookings or influx of calls that you can. Close potentially the systems behind everything like there's a lot to it right? And most people they'll they'll see somebody like you guys or myself and they'll be like oh that's sick. They're traveling the world and they're shooting for 4 seasons. It looks like something I could do. And they probably could if they actually put in the work to be able to do all these things. But once you see everything that's involved it. It becomes a lot more intimidating for a lot of people and it's easier to say well I'll just go work for this marketing company and shoot their photos for them because then all I have to do is be creative and I don't have to worry about the business side which is totally fine if people want to do that.

23:55.32
smacey
Um, right.

23:56.31
Nash Hagen
Um, but that's that's kind of the the first thing that kind of my philosophy of that. The second thing is I genuinely want to give back to people because when I was first starting out. There was absolutely nothing out there that like I said I would copy and paste blogs. Of scripts and it just wouldn't work and I was like why doesn't this work. So what I give people is not scripts but it's more frameworks and ways ah ways to think so they can think for themselves on how to actually do these things because a lot of the stuff I talk about is um, it's like it's ambiguous. It's stuff that you know. You you do have to think about like okay if I'm reaching out to this marketing manager where are they in their life. What would allow them to get a promotion. What would their job or what would their ah boss say like hey this is a great job I'm going to give you a raise for like what kind of things can we actually offer a marketing manager that they're able to look like the hero. For the company and that's not a script you can give it's not a framework. It's going to be different for everybody. Um, but when you talk about that stuff then it ah it gives people that actually care and actually want to do this then they reach out and they ask questions and then I don't actually sell a course personally I sell a mentorship program in ah, a system. Basically.

24:54.72
smacey
Bright.

25:11.40
Nash Hagen
Um, for getting more leads and more bookings and and more clients in general. Um, so I mean courses are great for basic information and that's why I have my Youtube channel for free. But I think when it comes to getting to the next level you really need to have the insight of somebody who's been there before um and also like the systems in place to be able to actually. Get yourself to that level because maybe you're reaching out to a hundred companies a day but if you don't have the ability to take on that many calls or you don't know how to run the sales calls then it it becomes very difficult. So um, yeah, that's that's another reason is it's just a different market I guess I'm I'm promoting to.

25:47.30
smacey
Okay, speaking on free knowledge right now and you mentioned sales calls perhaps not knowing how to run a sales call off the top of your head. What are some of the biggest mistakes people make in ah in a failed sales call.

25:51.67
Nash Hagen
Um, yeah, yeah, one of the biggest ones is not taking authority right off the bat. So a lot of times creators will will get on a call.

26:05.34
smacey
Um, a.

26:08.73
Nash Hagen
And they'll be like what do you want or that's that's the general vibe of asking the client what they want and the fact is if the client knew what they wanted most of the time if they're coming from a cold email they they probably wouldn't get on the call with you. They would just say hey this is what we need so when you approach the sales call from like a diagnostics point of view. Like hey where's your business who are your competitors. What are some of your goals for this year what's preventing you from getting there. What have you tried in the past. Why do you think it didn't work like those kind of questions allow you to diagnose where a client is in their business and then you can come in and provide a solution to them. But if you're just saying hey how many photos do you want or. Or a lot of people. The sales call will be just going and pitching them right off the bat for something they don't even know if the client needs because they haven't even expressed any any kind of pain point yet. Um, so really trying to uncover what that pain point is is first and foremost what you need to do and then showing why. Your solution in terms of content is the best option for them to get to their desired angle. Yeah.

27:11.72
smacey
Um, right.

27:11.85
aaronmannes
Now a ah pain point is I assume just like it sounds an area in their business where maybe they're lacking. Maybe maybe they're on social media with 0 video content this day and age and you go like hey this would help you know.

27:17.12
Nash Hagen
Um, yeah.

27:30.70
aaronmannes
Is that a correct assumption for everyone listening for my mom out there.

27:34.34
Nash Hagen
Totally yes, um, that's yeah, so that's that's part of it. Um, but sometimes it's not just like hey you need to be posting whatever 10 videos a month on your social just for the sake of having it because it's the twenty first century we have to get to why does that matter for them. Um, so what is posting 10 videos a month going to do for their business like yes, they might get more followers. Yes, they might get more engagement but what does that do for them specifically. Um, so in the case of a brand. It could be that we're building brand image. But we're also. Directing traffic straight to their linktree or their direct website link because when we're talking about brands. They're running paid ad campaigns mostly so they're going to be spending a certain amount of money per lead that comes to their website whereas when they use content on their social. Yes, they're going to pay you upfront for it. But it's essentially free marketing for the duration that that piece of content is on their on their social media and can direct people to the age where they can see more stuff get nurtured further and there's also maybe we can talk about this as well. But there's different types of content. So. There's there's like viral content. That's really the entire point of that is just to get views to get people's attention to get people to look at you. Um, that's the whole point of it and that's the part that most people focus on.

28:58.57
Nash Hagen
But the thing is there's also other pieces of content that are necessary for the entire sales funnel for a brand right? So if we're just all posting trends and stuff then we don't actually build brand. It's just like you know we become the trend page so you have to have ah branding stuff so that's Like. What are some initiatives that the brand has um you know are they eco-friendly. Are they sustainable. Um, what is the Brand Story. What is the founder's story like getting into that kind of stuff. It's not going to go viral. The numbers aren't going to be as sexy as you know some of this other stuff. But that's okay because it's it's geared more towards the people that are already like embedded in the brand. And then another one is like the educational side of things which is kind of on on par with brand but that could be more so things like sales or promotions that are coming up events or just general education about the product and why it matters to them. So again, that's not going to be as viral as the viral pieces. But. That serves well in terms of getting people to their website. So when you can pitch like a full content strategy like that it it just sets you apart because it sounds like you know what? you're talking about it sounds like you're not just making a video for the sake of it but you actually have a plan of of how they're going to use it.

30:09.58
smacey
Now question for you I know you mentioned that one of the big mistakes is not taking authority and that if you're on a call like this. You're the one in charge. You're the creative. You should be really helping fill some gaps here or locating those pain points now we had a guest two weeks ago

30:16.74
Nash Hagen
Yeah, yeah.

30:29.51
smacey
Where her view is more of the side of and maybe this is because she sort of knows what she's doing with social media and her own strategy but don't tell me what I need ask me what I need or don't try and come in and you know, kind of.

30:35.99
Nash Hagen
Um.

30:41.58
aaronmannes
Don't assume yeah, don't assume you you know you? and what I'm trying to do so she was a little put off because I I basically asked that same exact question like would this be helpful if someone pitched you with um hey I noticed this problem I can solve it I'm curious if you're interested.

30:45.94
smacey
And assume you know my business. Do you ever.

30:46.53
Nash Hagen
Right? yeah.

30:59.19
aaronmannes
Is as simple as that and reasonably. It's her opinion she was she was just like ah no I'd be kind of put off by that. Um, because you're assuming like you don't know what I'm trying to do my own strategy. Um, so I'm I'm curious Seth I was thinking the same thing.

31:01.11
smacey
Right.

31:01.33
Nash Hagen
Yeah, yeah.

31:07.91
Nash Hagen
Yeah. Um, I yeah.

31:16.51
smacey
Yeah, yeah, so we're on the same page I'm just curious if a you ever run into that or if maybe we're talking about 2 different kinds of clients maybe at 2 different stages something along those lines or what you just think of that comment in general.

31:20.59
aaronmannes
Breathe.

31:28.54
Nash Hagen
So yeah is is this from like say a cold email and somebody responds is like hey that's not actually something we need is that what if you're saying or is it on the sales call itself.

31:43.53
smacey
Um I think it would be more cold right? Aaron tough to say we didn't dig too much into that.

31:44.92
aaronmannes
Um, yeah I suppose but nash to your point you there's a preliminary. There's There's the research that you said and maybe there's conversations where you're you're getting a feel of their company and then you come back with ah based on our our conversation based on my research.

31:47.97
Nash Hagen
Or back. Yeah.

31:51.83
smacey
Right.

32:04.43
aaronmannes
I propose this because X Y and Z and I would hope that it would return X Y and z.

32:04.45
Nash Hagen
Yes.

32:09.79
smacey
Well, you know what this begs the question before we even start How do you in your you know if you can share some strategies how you acquire that sales call how you get them on the phone because you know it could be a simple email as to what we're talking about hey is there anywhere where your business needs help in the in the scenario we were talking about. They could be no I'm good.

32:10.38
Nash Hagen
Yeah.

32:21.50
Nash Hagen
Yeah.

32:22.23
aaronmannes
Um.

32:28.24
Nash Hagen
Um, I yeah swim.

32:29.43
smacey
Essentially now I know what my business needs and then you never actually get on that that sales call. So I guess that really begs the question. How are you convincing people to give you fifteen thirty minutes of your time. So I guess converting them from a text to an in-person.

32:39.22
Nash Hagen
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

32:46.62
smacey
Meeting which we know always goes better for those you know.

32:47.35
aaronmannes
Um, yeah.

32:49.71
Nash Hagen
Ah, hundred for good. Yeah, so ah, it it comes down to this mindset that ah depending on what brand you're reaching out to if it's a local company. They might not get hit up at all if you're reaching out to someone like Dgi. They're getting thousands of inquiries every single day so you got to be able to stand out so you got to understand who you're talking to number 1 but most people are probably not going to That's not going to be their first person they reach out to They're not going to reach out to a massive fortune 500 your company. Um, so that being said, either way, you have to increase the entry.

33:03.36
smacey
And.

33:19.74
Nash Hagen
In your first initial email and you have to decrease the friction to engaging with you further. So the entire point of the email is not to pitch them. It's not to sell them on your solution. It's not not to do any of that. It's basically just to say that you noticed them that you noticed a certain inefficiency in their business. Let's say. For example, they're not posting. Consistently and what they have been posting is just you know it's not converting based on how many comments it gets based on the views and and you could do a lot better so you can point out like hey I noticed that you haven't been very consistent and then you can drop a case study. So if you have your own case study. That's ideal. If you can say hey I help this company go from posting basically nothing to posting 15 times a month and this is what happened to their page then that creates intrigue or if you can just make ah like a quote right from adamissary the the Ceo of Instagram that says that Instagram is a. Ah, video platform and if you're not posting video then then you're missing out right? So like if you can quote something or a specific case study then that's ideal then you can say I'd love to get you similar results to this or you can even make a specific claim of what you're trying to do that is bold but it's something that you can actually attain. Right? that it that backs up from that case study and so that all creates intrigue and we're we're doing that in like 4 sentences. We're not writing a book to them. We're we're doing in like 4 or 5 sentences and then the last line we don't want was that um, that first part. So.

34:46.81
smacey
The whole email is 4 to 5 sentences right? okay.

34:53.71
Nash Hagen
Total you might be looking at like six seven maybe something like that. So that first part is just to create intrigue. So if if we look at the anatomy of an email. What's the point of the subject line to get somebody to open it. That's literally the only point so we got to stand out. What's the point of personalizing an email.

34:58.36
smacey
Um, right.

35:05.54
aaronmannes
Um, yeah.

35:12.18
Nash Hagen
It's just to create the connection. So someone wants to read Further. What's the point of sharing these case studies and our results literally just to create intrigue you can be like oh Wow, that's interesting that they did that and then when we get to the call to action Point. We're not pitching a service. We're not saying we can do this amount of deliverables for this price or anything like that where we just say something like. Hey if you want to know the exact strategy that I've used to get these types of results for that client I shared then just reply yes and I'll share it with you So all they have to do is just type yes or say I'm interested like 0 friction. Yeah, so so 0 friction and then when they say yes.

35:43.75
aaronmannes
Real real smart.

35:51.72
Nash Hagen
All all you do is you share a quick you could share a loom video where you explain it in like 5 minutes or you could do like 3 bullet points where you're like hey I'm gonna do this type of video this type of video this type of video. This is what we did for the client this is how their page changed. This is what I want to do for you if you're interested in learning more about this. I'd love to hop on a call and I can explain it more in depth and exactly how it applies to you here's ah, a link to to book a call with me and then and then boom then there they've already showed interest and you've explained the whole thing how it's relevant to them and then it makes it so much easier to get them on a call.

36:28.60
smacey
Yeah I love that just just reply. Yes.

36:28.99
aaronmannes
Dude I I Freaking love that I love that and just reply the as is zero friction. So now you know if you need to spend I mean there's nothing worse than crafting an entire email.

36:34.77
Nash Hagen
Um, yes.

36:41.57
Nash Hagen
Um, young. Ah yeah.

36:41.81
aaronmannes
Links and this and that and and getting nothing back. It's like that was a lot of work for for nothing So a quick email to the point are you interested in me then explaining more yes or no like yes, okay, great and then I love further.

36:52.96
Nash Hagen
Um, yeah.

36:54.27
aaronmannes
The the video presentation now they get a sense of your personality. Can you speak on camera. What do you look like? what's your style like and you can explain a lot in words really quickly and give them ah a quick video where they feel more comfortable. Probably with you now going forward.

37:02.49
Nash Hagen
Um, yeah.

37:12.11
aaronmannes
In terms of like yeah I could get on call with this guy or girl like no problem you know and I just think that's brilliant then I then you know, blasting them with another 505000 character email where they look at it and they're like I'm going to lunch and then it's gone forever.

37:15.85
Nash Hagen
Um, but ah.

37:26.64
Nash Hagen
Um, yeah, hundred percent

37:28.76
smacey
Um.

37:29.58
aaronmannes
You know? So if there's one video file it automatically I would think would be like huh like what's that like let me press play. Oh it's 5 minutes long like I'm gonna get to this later but I'm curious. What's behind this video I love it.

37:34.92
Nash Hagen
Um, yeah.

37:43.21
Nash Hagen
Yup, yeah, 100% and the reason that works so well because if you if you shoot out a video cold on the the first email then you're risking them having 0 context for it and also probably not even watching it because they're you know they're they're giving 5 minutes of their life to some random person that emailed them.

37:52.18
aaronmannes
Um.

37:55.97
aaronmannes
Um, yeah.

37:59.26
smacey
Bright.

38:00.96
Nash Hagen
When you get that first commitment of yes I'm interested then they're committed to at least learning more about it. So they're much more likely to watch that video. Um and when you do it that way that first email you can templatize for the most part without with the exception of the little personalization that you make um, so you're not like.

38:11.74
aaronmannes
I think.

38:15.15
smacey
Yeah, yeah.

38:19.70
Nash Hagen
Hyper personalizing every single email you send so you can do it more at scale.

38:23.56
smacey
Um, that was going to be you literally use the exact same terminology I was going to use I was going to ask you? How do you scale that in terms of customizing the next step with video. You must have several templates that fit different scenarios.

38:27.70
Nash Hagen
Yeah, yeah.

38:34.79
Nash Hagen
Yeah, you're you're talking the first initial email. Yeah.

38:37.81
smacey
Yeah, after the after yes, no after after you've gotten yes as a reply and you're onto the video stage are you customizing every single one of those videos. There's no way you can scale that right.

38:46.60
Nash Hagen
Um.

38:52.88
Nash Hagen
No, and again it depends on the client right? If if it's a dream client somebody like dja I Then yeah I'm going to pull out the stops and and make something really good. Um, but if it's just a client there that you're like you know it's not a dream client but it's somebody I Want to get whatever I create what's called a vsl So video sales letter.

38:55.50
smacey
Um, right right? Okay, right.

39:09.42
Nash Hagen
And essentially it's like that 5 to 7 minutes long and are you guys familiar with video sales letters how it works okay, cool. This is great. Awesome! Okay, yeah.

39:14.10
aaronmannes
No, not until right now and I'm I'm blown away at how dumb I am that I've never even thought of this or heard of it and not used it like I'm literally blown away so tell me the Vsl give me the vsl.

39:15.60
smacey
Um, not at all. Yeah I'mquiman.

39:27.56
smacey
Um.

39:28.41
Nash Hagen
So to be on it. so so I got super into the whole marketing thing right? and a lot of people who are in the marketing game use Vsls so like click funnels. They're huge on that. But in terms of the creator industry like literally no one uses it? Um I have never seen anyone else use it. So. That's why it's so dangerous because. Like you can stand apart immediately because of it. So essentially what your goal is is to to give proof that you know what you're talking about. So it's easy to show footage that you've shot before so you're not sending them a ah website portfolio but you immediately have footage you immediately have client list. Um, and then you give a case study like your your most bond case study that you have of the results that you've got in the client. Basically we want to say that they're in the situation that they're in and it's not their fault. It's because they were. You know, ignorant to something and you're not going to use the word ignorant obviously but they they didn't understand something about the business and that's okay that they didn't understand that. But once they implement this thing which is your content strategy. It's going to do wonders for their business. It's going to be completely different and it's going to get results similar to this case study that we mentioned. Um, so in my specific example what I'll do is I call it the social accelerator program and this is for like my social retainers. So I have different vsls depending on like what kind of what kind of project I'm trying to pitch but I'll talk about how most clients will just post up a video and hope it works and that's not.

40:58.27
Nash Hagen
That's not how social algorithms work. That's not how the sales funnel in general works because businesses get clients first by getting attention then by nurturing that attention then by getting that attention to go to some kind of sales page and then lastly converting that attention which means that we have to get attention through virality. Okay, so we need to create viral content. Need to nurture that audience by creating branding type of videos. Why should we care about your resort. Why is your resort better than the 50 other ones that are within the one mile radius on this strip of beach. Um, and like how do we specifically target your target market and speak their language on that then. Once people are stoked about that we have to have some kind of way to get them onto a website so we need to have you know those educational pieces or or some kind of call to action piece of content that gets somebody to click a link in the bio once they're on the website we have to have conversion assets. Because somebody can go to a website but if it sucks then they're just going to click off think it's a scam not want a book there. Whatever so we need to have conversion web assets on the website that allow people to believe in in the resort or believe in the brand think that it's going to get them the transition they want or the experience they want and therefore they book. So content is critical for every single aspect of that sales funnel and when you're missing any single part of that then you're just missing out on a complete section of the sales funnel. So that's what I want to do. That's what we want to fix and this is how I want to do it.

42:27.95
Nash Hagen
But to be able to explain it further. Let's jump on a call and I can tailor it specific to your company and we can see if it works.

42:33.21
aaronmannes
Um, now are you doing this all on your own. Do you have you have like a team. No just the the whole process like your your business is this is this you.

42:36.60
Nash Hagen
Um, yeah, well I'm I mean the video.

42:44.72
Nash Hagen
Yeah, so I do a lot of the shoots I do outsource some of the shoots like the ones that I don't want to do as much so I do that So I have contractors. Um I also have a sales guy a closer so he takes on all my sales calls now. In the past I was doing it all. But I kind of trained him on doing that and I actually am in the process right now of hiring an outbound Team. So I'm training them up to basically do all my outbound for me. So I don't have to do any of the initial outreach and yeah, basically duplicate myself so and I also have an editor.

43:17.85
smacey
Amazing! Amazing. It gets to a point where you need a team I mean we're we're starting. We're probably a little bit behind you with our own business but like we're getting to a point with the show where like we need a team you know, otherwise you you have no life. You have no like.

43:19.10
aaronmannes
Um, yeah, really.

43:19.66
Nash Hagen
So yeah.

43:26.71
aaronmannes
Um, yeah, yeah.

43:27.73
Nash Hagen
Um, yeah I'm set totally.

43:34.66
smacey
You're you're totally invested into hustle culture and maybe that's for somebody where you're you know you're going to bed at 3 and up at 5 and you're disappearing and all you're doing is working on your business. That's not for me I don't think that's sustainable for anyone. You know we're we're here to have fun. We're here to have a joyous life and you know building a business is fun right? But like maybe you want to go surf you know, maybe you want to go rock climbing.

43:39.83
Nash Hagen
Um, yeah, no.

43:40.28
aaronmannes
Um, no, it's not good. Yeah.

43:51.97
Nash Hagen
Yeah.

43:54.42
smacey
You know, maybe you want to go do those things my question for you Aaron hold on Aaron camera. Okay.

43:57.40
aaronmannes
Seth hold on Seth. Thank you, it's still going though I checked. Ah, while we took this pause though. Everyone look at the camera and say hat to tarran and she's going to be editing this so speaking of a team just look at the camera and just say hey Tarin.

44:08.35
smacey
What do you mean? which camera there's like 4 of them on me. Oh hey, Taron thanks for editing this thanks Erin you're the best.

44:12.20
aaronmannes
And so the the real one the your osmo your osmo. Yeah hey hey, thanks for editing? Yeah um, know the camera's still going. So let's we can keep going.

44:18.78
Nash Hagen
Um, the computer. Oh okay, darre.

44:27.10
smacey
Cool My question to build off of sort of what you're talking about is are you creating content that hits all of those those. What would be the term those areas attention nurture conversion or does it depend or. Sometimes you only pitching hey I'll create you content. That's just for the attention part looks like you got everything else covered or just for the nurture part.

44:53.35
Nash Hagen
Right? Ah, yeah, totally depends on the brand right? So sometimes brands will have the viral side down like they they've built the page and they have a bunch of people coming In. Um, but they don't have any of the nurture or conversion side of things. So I would tailor the pitch more towards that. Now the video sales letter is going to talk about all 3 of them and why they're important so that you can just scale that and just just send it out to everybody but when it comes to the actual sales Call. We'll tailor that specifically to the brand specifically to what they need So that's on the social side of things now sometimes they'll be. For example, a resort that needs updated room photos or they just underwent a renovation or something like that and obviously most of that stuff is kind of irrelevant to them. So What's more important to them is to showcase the the new design of the room or to showcase the new renovations or whatever it might be or if they have a restaurant. Or sometimes ah this is another thing with reports is they'll have like events or they'll have a celebrity chef come in so they're constantly updating constantly having these new little like marketing initiatives or whatever that they need content for um because you can just post a photo graphic that you make in Canva but it's not really going to do much for you. Whereas you know making a video Obviously as you guys know is going to be much more engaging for that So you got to tailor it to the client depending on what they need but you can templatize a lot of like the specific processes.

46:20.50
aaronmannes
It's really smart I mean it just really is I think with this day and age everything so fast paceced video is King I mean why? Why not translate that to everyday life to email to pitching to like. Here it is like it's the next best step versus getting on like a Zoom call together like here here's the movement here's the life here's the life behind what I can do quickly just to pitch you or talk to you about the sales funnel like look at the quality of this video that's happening right now it checks off like a lot of.

46:37.96
Nash Hagen
Um, yeah.

46:48.24
Nash Hagen
Um, well.

46:53.93
aaronmannes
Question marks that an email does not I mean email can be written. You could chat gbt like make a wonderful pitch for Marriott in you know, key west and it will and like but that doesn't that doesn't give a lot of the question marks like who's going to be filming like what's the person look like what's the demographic like.

46:55.32
Nash Hagen
Right.

47:02.25
smacey
Um, he.

47:02.96
Nash Hagen
Um, yes, yeah.

47:10.94
aaronmannes
What's their attitude. What's their work ethic like it doesn't doesn't give any of that which this this Vsl does Vsl Vsl I do I do have to ask a I do have to ask? Ah I think a tough question because.

47:11.34
Nash Hagen
Right.

47:16.60
Nash Hagen
Um, yeah, yeah there you go? Yeah, so when you're talking about.

47:21.33
smacey
Um, it's Aaron's new favorite thing he can be up all night

47:31.50
aaronmannes
This is where maybe fear comes in and and working past that fear is you're researching, but you're you're promising an unknown sometimes I mean I mean you might have an idea you might have a probability or a hope. But you're kind of promising an unknown.

47:32.60
Nash Hagen
Yeah, yeah.

47:38.86
Nash Hagen
Yeah.

47:46.74
Nash Hagen
Check.

47:48.31
aaronmannes
Like someone's page might just not work or your your video might not strike what they're hoping they might be hoping oh this guy's coming on like it's going to go viral and then it's a slow trickle or it starts to come up. Are there return.

48:02.00
aaronmannes
Ah, return emails or return videos or calls where they're like hey man like you you promise XY and z and like we're not seeing it like how do you? How do you turn that around or does that happen. It must happen sometimes um and and what's the attitude behind that because that fear for I'm feeling that fear of.

48:11.66
Nash Hagen
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

48:22.30
Nash Hagen
I need.

48:23.74
aaronmannes
Promising a company like hey if I do this video for you I think it'll go viral on your page when I mean who who just who knows who knows.

48:30.28
Nash Hagen
Right? Yeah and that comes down to to what you guarantee right? Can you guarantee the thing is going to get 2000000 views no no one can like it could be the best but you could copy a video that has 2000000 views and post it on their page and it might not get that so setting those expectations upfront of like hey we're going to follow frameworks.

48:41.71
aaronmannes
Are.

48:49.31
Nash Hagen
That have proven to work for these companies and you can even show them examples of like hey this template worked for this company that we want to apply to yours now. Is it going to be the same no because you're a different property. You're a different page like you've been around a different amount of time different audience all that kind of stuff right. Um, different timing even like sometimes just the timing of when it is maybe it hits a trend or whatever right? So. There's so many different factors so you just have to set the expectations of like hey we're going to do our best to do exactly what we did with this company but we can't guarantee. It's going to perform exactly how it is It might even be better who knows.

49:22.13
aaronmannes
Um, yeah, that's true.

49:25.95
Nash Hagen
Um, but yeah, you take the expectation away I guess in terms of you know, tangible like it's going to hit this exact number right.

49:31.35
aaronmannes
Yeah, it's more like this worked here. This is what we want to replicate Hopefully it it does Well, it's not going to be worse. It's going to get you on the right path a follow-up question to that in terms of detail is like everyone's different in terms of their their social media marketer or their marketer or.

49:33.39
smacey
M. Right.

49:42.63
Nash Hagen
Um, totally.

49:48.49
aaronmannes
Um, you know Seth and I do some airbnb stays and and content for airbnbs and we might have a pitch or we might do a certain theme or narrative or celebrate a holiday for them that's coming up like things like that. But you hand over the content unless I mean I can't tell you how many times a reel gets posted and like. Musics maybe they even forgot music or trending music or they don't do the caption or a thing and you're like ah like like I don't have the final say on like when this goes out how often it goes out or maybe they're doing the real like once every three weeks and you're like I gave you you know.

50:17.12
Nash Hagen
Yes.

50:28.65
aaronmannes
20 for the month hoping you would do them every week to see that growth and and and and feel that like oh I hired this guy and I have this great return on investment where does that sort of control where do you let go of the like okay like now it's on you guys or.

50:28.94
Nash Hagen
M.

50:45.40
Nash Hagen
Yeah.

50:47.42
aaronmannes
Is it really spelled out all the way to the end like hey I want you posting on Monday through Friday at Eleven P Eleven a m or like whatever it is is it so spelled out.

50:54.22
Nash Hagen
Yeah, so that's when we get into things like offers right? So what makes you guys as Airbnb shooters different than anybody else who shoots an airbnb because anyone can go shoot a video and hand it over to the client. But what could make you guys different An example.

51:08.97
aaronmannes
Um.

51:13.79
Nash Hagen
Is when you can solve every single problem. The client has so maybe they're lazy. Maybe they don't know maybe they just completely forget that they even hired you and that's why they're not posting right? So how do we take care of that issue. Well we can offer like an automated posting schedule for them or we can even post it ourselves. We can hire va. There's all kinds of different options that we can do. Where we basically handle that portion of the business for them so that it it doesn't end up looking bad on us right? So that's something that we can do. That's something I've done with clients before that they'll have a like a marketing agency that specializes quote unquote in posting. The the social media content for the company and it's just not very good right? And then they hire me to to shoot content and I'm like hey I see what you guys have this is what you're posting right now. How do you like your your current setup with your social media agency and a lot of times they're like oh we're locked into a contract for the next year with them. But we really don't like what what they're producing for us. So the response to that could be like okay well since I'm already producing the content for you guys I know the strategy I know why we're producing it I know what? the best captions will be when to post it all that kind of stuff wouldn't it make sense to just bring me on to actually do the posting handle the posting side of it so that you guys. Don't have to worry about that at all and you're not handling like 2 different vendors like it just makes more sense and a lot of times they actually appreciate that because you have you have the firsthand perspective of why it works because you become the strategist instead of just the guy handing over videos plus it just looks better for everybody and it's easier to stay on retainer that way. Um.

52:46.82
Nash Hagen
Because here's another way you can do it is like say you initially shoot 15 videos but you can just reorganize the clips and the videos put a different song on it and now all of a sudden you have a month's worth of content. Um that you didn't have before but they but you can still charge them that monthly retainer for it.

52:57.90
aaronmannes
Um.

53:03.87
Nash Hagen
Um, so there's just all kinds of advantages for that.

53:07.33
aaronmannes
That's a great point again, you know there's so many just avenues to business. There's so many avenues to this whole game where it's like it doesn't have to stop at content. It doesn't just have to be content like I can give you 25 videos and you know 50 photos.

53:19.42
Nash Hagen
Ah.

53:25.19
aaronmannes
And then that's it but like what are you going to do with them. Do you do you have a plan because I can help you with that too and for a price like I will take my time for the next two months you'll have a post every day. Let's see what growth we can do and if it's great hey you want to continue this now. Hire me to get some more content.

53:30.93
Nash Hagen
Yep.

53:36.93
Nash Hagen
Um, yeah.

53:43.32
aaronmannes
And then I'll continue the two months let's do another two months see where we're at and then once you take I feel also with with with business with life. You take something you take a chore off someone's plate. You take it off their plate. They don't they don't want it back as long as you're doing a decent job.

53:48.20
Nash Hagen
Ah.

53:53.75
Nash Hagen
And.

53:59.60
Nash Hagen
Totally right.

54:02.65
aaronmannes
They don't want it back like time is money you know in terms of you Seth in terms of editing like Seth edited all these podcasts. We finally said you know we got to give this to someone else. We got to free up some time Seth doesn't want it.

54:11.75
Nash Hagen
Yeah, yeah. The.

54:18.83
smacey
Um, and someone who's better on top of it right? How dare you sir How dare you sir.

54:18.90
aaronmannes
Yeah, a little better I almost went way better I'm kidding ah the tiniest bit better dex the tiniest bit better, but my point being set if Seth were being honest am I do you want that? Do you want that back like that chore's gone.

54:21.25
Nash Hagen
Yeah, totally. This.

54:36.34
smacey
Absolutely not not that I'm above it though just because I have so much more time to do other things and I'm rest easy knowing someone who's better than me at that task hasn't handled. You know.

54:40.61
aaronmannes
And now it's freed up. So Once you get that. Um, of course oh absolutely so and that and that's business like how can I help you? How can I help you helping yourself.

54:48.22
Nash Hagen
Um.

54:50.63
Nash Hagen
Okay.

54:56.60
smacey
And it costs money. But then you wait you you budget for that and you realize my time is worth that amount being spent or we decide that realistically you know I think what's what's also been really fascinating about this discussion and something that's.

55:07.84
aaronmannes
Yeah.

55:09.52
Nash Hagen
Yep.

55:15.56
smacey
Wanted to kind of blurt out I you know it's already been said but really hammer home is the data is inarguable. So when you're talking about case studies or here's my framework or here's my strategy that works 80% of the time or it worked for this person or it worked for this company that's inarguable. You can't argue with objective concrete.

55:29.20
Nash Hagen
Right. M.

55:34.40
smacey
Data So I like that idea of running your own case study. Even if it's you know, small scale if the results are there. You can scale that over time I'm sure so that's definitely something that you know I've taken note of.

55:41.17
Nash Hagen
Um, yeah, hundred percent um and I think something to note on the case study thing is that a lot of people confuse case studies with portfolio. So they'll go and they'll take free.

55:56.33
aaronmannes
Are.

55:57.13
smacey
Good point.

56:00.31
Nash Hagen
It's for you know for a hotel or they'll take free shoots for a brand which is fine if you're building portfolio. Um, but they'll never get a testimonial.. They'll never figure out any kind of like tangible result of where that content was used as far as we know like yes, it's on your personal portfolio. But maybe the client never even used it. Maybe they didn't like it who knows right? so. Whenever you do free work. It's yes you want to get the portfolio but even more important than that is some sort of testimonial or some sort of just tangible result that came as as a result of you working with this client. Um, because that's going to be infinitely more valuable than a free stay or a free product or. Ah, just throwing some stuff on your website and you know yeah.

56:38.55
aaronmannes
Yeah, absolutely and to yeah and to to that point when you're when you're ever, you're doing or whenever I'm doing something new or find myself in a new situation and let's say it's sort of ah centered around social media I'm always taking a screenshot of where their page was and what it looked like.

56:40.98
smacey
Um, yeah, even an endorsement.

56:48.32
Nash Hagen
The.

56:55.87
aaronmannes
Before let's just say my 15 photos showed up and now I have like ah even if they're following grew you know, whatever ah 10% you can you could still say like hey I did this and within a month the following grew 10%

56:59.94
smacey
Smart.

57:00.45
Nash Hagen
Yeah.

57:09.65
Nash Hagen
Yes.

57:09.82
smacey
Um, you can argue it.

57:13.78
aaronmannes
And you can you can change stats and and move stats and shapeshift stats to make it seem pleasing in whatever you're trying to prove. But if there is growth behind and after what you've done I think it's really good to show that especially if you're like taking over an account like let me post for you for two months like hey. Ah.

57:14.29
Nash Hagen
Of see.

57:35.17
aaronmannes
Our last post we got you know a thousand views when I started we got 25 you know, like even to be able to say that is whatever percent increase that is of a bajillion I don't know if that myths right? but but yeah to be able to to be able to say that are those little things I think it's important to keep track of like.

57:40.50
Nash Hagen
Yep. Is that like a 400 x or something crazy. Yeah.

57:53.33
aaronmannes
Where were they before they worked with me and where are they after and what can I show from that.

57:59.41
Nash Hagen
Yup, yeah hundred percent's and and that's what when we were talking about case studies in your initial email. That's what creates intrigue. It's not necessarily like hey I worked with you know name drop random brands like that's cool, but so of a lot of other people. So but when you can show that actual result that's when you set yourself apart and that's when they're like okay all these other content creators are pitching me to do 10 photos and two reels. But this guy is actually pitching me like a tangible roi and like here's proof that that actually works I'm going to talk to him because.

58:30.38
aaronmannes
Um, yeah I think that's spot on this is this is why Seth I enjoy this show because I'm sitting here like I've never pitched a brand before like that's what it feels like.

58:32.74
Nash Hagen
He seems like he knows what he's talking about.

58:36.32
smacey
Yeah, totally.

58:41.85
Nash Hagen
And.

58:47.73
aaronmannes
Ah, you just keep learning you keep learning like these little things and I I commend you for putting it out there for you know free. It's not free for you like the the time and the effort but to put that stuff out there to get conversations going and and get you know people thinking and I mean it's really awesome I Think there's just so much.

58:47.73
Nash Hagen
Yeah.

59:09.29
aaronmannes
It's out there that people can take and I guess the choice becomes like you said do they want to you know, really make the moves and and have a further conversation with you and there's that sales funnel get the interest and if they are if they're serious. They're going to want to have a conversation with you.

59:15.93
Nash Hagen
Right? yeah.

59:26.47
smacey
Or not even not even necessarily serious. Maybe they want to fast-track results. Maybe they can learn everything they need to know from Nash's free videos. Maybe you know maybe they want to speed that process up by having guidance for their own unique scenario because every it doesn't matter.

59:26.49
aaronmannes
So it works in every every sort of avenue.

59:27.10
Nash Hagen
Yep.

59:31.56
aaronmannes
Um, ah.

59:31.68
Nash Hagen
And right.

59:41.81
aaronmannes
Um, yeah.

59:45.88
smacey
No business or no brand or is going to be the exact same in terms of how you're pitching even if you have a strategy or template I mean it's just there's going to be different variables. No matter what there's an infinite amount of permutations. So I mean I think there's something to be said for that and back to you know something I said at the start of the episode was maybe there's some people.

59:51.40
Nash Hagen
Um, yeah.

59:54.98
aaronmannes
Um, yeah.

59:57.80
Nash Hagen
Um, yeah.

01:00:04.12
smacey
Who just the way like if 2 different 2 or 3 different people are saying the exact same thing in terms of how to grow your your photography business. You're going to vibe or understand just through better. You know, communicative connection. What Nash is saying or what person b is saying.

01:00:18.20
Nash Hagen
Right.

01:00:22.77
smacey
It's all how it's presented and personalitiesities play such a big role in how we understand information. So There's going to be people who vibe with Nassh there's going to be people who maybe don't understand as much as somebody else and I think that's really interesting and that's why I think we can all not we but in certain Industries. You know companies or people can pitch the same service of or same tutorials and you know get so many different kinds of clients.

01:00:46.31
Nash Hagen
Yeah, yeah, hundred percent I mean transparently the goal in my free videos is to get a photographer from 0 to like 3 to five thousand a month like that's my goal is if you just watch my videos that you can get there. Um, then.

01:00:58.44
smacey
Right.

01:01:01.55
Nash Hagen
Once you want to get further then let's talk and I can help you work with bigger brands bigger budgets licensing deals all that kind of stuff. Um, so like I get people all the time that dm me screenshots of like hey I was just getting free collabs or I was getting denied all the time but I just closed a $3000 deal just from watching your Youtube videos and that's like like gets me stoked like when i.

01:01:18.37
aaronmannes
So sick ten ten percent sent to rainy Hawaii 10% sent to rainy Hawaii right? That's what you should Dm back? yeah.

01:01:20.20
smacey
Yeah, well because it gives you a sense of purpose right? It gives you purpose right? You know.

01:01:21.53
Nash Hagen
Stuff like that I'm like that's awesome. You know? yeah do it? Yeah no so like even if they never sign up.

01:01:36.31
smacey
If it was just about the money you wouldn't do anything right? You wouldn't You wouldn't make videos. You wouldn't do any. You just keep it all to yourself. So I mean there's an inherent. It's clearly an inherent need to contribute back right.

01:01:42.49
Nash Hagen
Right? Totally and ah like this this gets deeper into it but I feel like the the pulse of culture is driven by art driven by art right? Whether it's music whether it's movies whether it's. Videos on Youtube whatever it is like the way the culture goes is through art. But if artists are like they they can't produce because they can't make a living then then what are we left with. We're left with not very many and probably not that great because they're selling out so how do we get. Artists to be able to understand the business side of stuff so they can actually charge what they're worth because I hate the whole starving artist thing freelance like my motto is taking the free out of freelance. Um, and and how do we have them like create an actual living for themselves so they don't have to focus on like taking any job that'll.

01:02:20.11
aaronmannes
Um, yeah.

01:02:33.62
Nash Hagen
Give them five hundred bucks but like focus on things that they actually care about and then go and tell the stories that need to be told. So yeah.

01:02:36.13
smacey
Right.

01:02:40.92
aaronmannes
I think that's great and I mean yeah I mean to add to that Seth and I we really talk about I think we have an episode called like don't give away the farm. Um, you know like knowing you're worth and the artist usually is that you know left.

01:02:41.40
smacey
Um, well said.

01:02:50.88
Nash Hagen
I.

01:03:00.34
aaronmannes
Left Brain emotional nice person that wants to be appreciated for their art and like even I think that's where it's gotten out of hand where it's like there's no dentist or surgeon that's like as long as you're like. Long as you'll tell your friends about it like I'll do this for free like you know there's there's associated value with that skill yet artists. There's so much value in someone liking your art that you can easily be taken advantage of and.

01:03:20.34
Nash Hagen
Writer.

01:03:32.45
Nash Hagen
Um, yeah.

01:03:35.45
aaronmannes
Granted, they're allowed to take advantage if we're allowing it So we really just promote like knowing the value and being careful with trading for this and trading for experience trading for exposure like that kind of language. Um and knowing the worth and if we all rise up if the tide all rises.

01:03:49.66
Nash Hagen
Yeah, totally.

01:03:54.81
aaronmannes
Then it just makes it better for everyone. So I think giving that education out to people. Um, readily is is just very very important. So Bravo Bravo well thank you, thank you.

01:03:55.13
Nash Hagen
Really.

01:04:04.21
Nash Hagen
Yeah, hundred percent agree with you for sure. Thanks and you guys too. You guys are doing awesome.

01:04:15.33
aaronmannes
We we do what we can Seth any more questions. Ah yeah.

01:04:17.81
smacey
Yeah, well now I'm just when my brains start at the end of an episode I mean it's a good sign. So I mean I've said it before we have the pleasure of having you know folks like yourself on weekly and we get a free education too just like all of our listeners so just wanted to um.

01:04:30.42
Nash Hagen
You know.

01:04:34.97
smacey
You know? Thank you once again for offering up your time I know we said it here and we've said it a million times on this show that time is money. So thanks Nash for coming on and and Sharon all that you did today and um, you know his link is link. Ah what is it Biosite. His Instagram and biosite is in the episode description. You can click on that for you? Those are you listening and you can find ah all his pages check out some of those those free tutorials and his Youtube and all that good stuff is there anything else that you want to add nash.

01:05:03.55
Nash Hagen
Ah, yeah I mean honestly like we go way more in depth on my Youtube channel. So like I talked about you know people are landing deals just off those videos. So if you want to check it out. It's nash underscore hain if you guys could drop the link there. But yeah I have tons of stuff from.

01:05:13.85
aaronmannes
Um.

01:05:15.64
smacey
Um, absolutely.

01:05:18.68
Nash Hagen
How to get deals if you don't have case studies to how to properly pitch clients how to structure an email what they care about how to price yourself licensing deals like all that kind of stuff is on the Youtube for free. So yep.

01:05:28.80
smacey
Amazing. That's in the episode description folks. He I'll tell you what we do Aaron I tell you what we do. We do the free course on Youtube watch a mall do a case study and we could be a case study for nash.

01:05:33.77
aaronmannes
That's sick I I feel like we're gonna need a part 2 and maybe dive into some some more specifics with this at some point.

01:05:37.85
Nash Hagen
Let's do it.

01:05:43.28
aaronmannes
Are.

01:05:46.90
Nash Hagen
Where you go. They'll be sick. Let's do it.

01:05:48.51
smacey
Come back on the show a year from now and let's see what's up.

01:05:52.10
aaronmannes
And the son of that's not a bad idea.

01:05:53.80
smacey
See where we're at we'll have grown. You'll have grown just saying.

01:05:59.58
aaronmannes
Nash I I have 1 quick question because since I was watching your videos. This is the 1 thing that hit me is you're doing these major resorts these beautiful places. Ah, how do you get the people out of the freaking way like how is it.

01:06:00.34
Nash Hagen
Um, that be awesome. Yeah.

01:06:17.16
aaronmannes
Ah, like what time of day. Are you filming this resort and there's there's basically no one there in the drone shot and there's like ah what's the magic here.

01:06:19.12
smacey
Um.

01:06:19.18
Nash Hagen
Ah, yeah.

01:06:27.60
Nash Hagen
Yeah, so photoshop exists. So that's great. But for video it doesn't yet. Well they have firefly So maybe kind of but ah, no, usually it's sunrise. Um, so sometimes you'll have to work around like the pool cleaner because that's usually when they clean the pool. But if you can get there within like.

01:06:30.49
aaronmannes
Um, yeah.

01:06:47.42
Nash Hagen
Maybe an hour of sunrise not like just when it's rising. But you know when when the sun's up a little bit so the the water's blue and stuff that's usually the ideal time anytime after like eight thirty nine you're getting all the people with the pool towels and the kids and the floats and all that stuff. So there's that.

01:06:49.46
aaronmannes
Um.

01:06:58.88
aaronmannes
Um, yeah.

01:07:04.89
Nash Hagen
Occasionally depending on the shoot depending on the budget. They'll they'll shut down areas of the resort. So yeah, just depends on the shoot for that. But I usually always try to get the majority of the hero shots within that first hour after sunrise.

01:07:18.35
aaronmannes
Awesome and just for maybe a quick sound bite. It's just a quick question. But um, what's the number one most important thing when you reach out to a company.

01:07:29.60
Nash Hagen
I Think it's what we talked about with creating intrigue and reducing the friction if a client can see that you actually care about them that you are in their psyche and you understand what makes their business better. As opposed to just saying hey I want to do this for your brand. This is how much it costs all that kind of stuff but when you actually show genuine care then they're interested because you're interested in them and when you reduce the amount of friction involved in engaging with you by just saying hey if you're interested say Yes, then they don't have to write a paragraph to you. They don't have to think of how they can apply what you said or what kind of budget they can allocate or anything like that. It's just say yes, great. Let's move on Now, you're committed at least a little bit now we can talk the real Stuff. So I think that's probably the number one tip in terms of getting someone to respond.

01:08:13.56
aaronmannes
Um, yeah, that's awesome in a nice concise form. You're welcome taran. Hey thank you.

01:08:22.53
smacey
Excellent, excellent, all right gents until next time It's been a pleasure talking to both of you.

01:08:24.44
Nash Hagen
There you go. Awesome! Thanks guys.