Photographing and Filming Golf Courses Professionally with Evan Schiller

In this episode, we sit down with Evan Schiller (@evan_schiller_photography), a renowned professional golf course photographer and videographer. Join us as we delve into the world of golf course photography and explore Evan's journey to becoming a sought-after expert in capturing the beauty and excitement of golf courses.

You can visit Evan's website by clicking this link: https://evanschillerphotography.com/pages/store

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Thanks for listening!
Go get shooting, go get editing, and stay focused.

@sethmacey
@mantis_photography
@thephotographermindset

Transcript

INTRO: 

02:45.24
aaronmannes
Speaking of vitamin d being out on the golf course today we have Evan Schiller a golf photography expert. He spends his time professionally taking photos of golf courses around the world. Ah. As you know I love the game of golf I I was very attracted to his profile and the way he kind of goes about his his craft I had to have him on the show. Wanted to discuss you know what? it's like his transition from golfing as a professional and in the sport to still being part of the game I think that's very interesting. Some of the the commonalities between photography and golf that I've found I wanted to bounce some of that off of him and see what his thoughts were on that. There's tons of parallels in terms of the mindset and I was just kind of jealous of the the amount of golf courses and spectacular signature holes. He's taken a look at and gotten from ah a bird's eye view literally in terms of getting these. Pictures taken these photos taken of these beautiful places I thought it was an interesting it. It was a golfing chat. You know if if we're going to clap for this one. It's going to be it's going to be quiet it was ah it was a golfing chat but we loved it and I don't know Seth do you have anything to add.

04:05.50
smacey
Well, it was tough to get a word in this one because you know you're just golf golf golf golf golf and he's golf golf golf and that's great I like it I I like when people are passionate about things I'm not as passionate so you took more of a lead on this one but I was it was.

04:14.00
aaronmannes
Um, yeah machine golfers.

04:23.20
smacey
Still enjoyable to sit in and and chime in when I could I was a bit of a spitfire in this one when I did chat just because I think ah coming on the mend had some opinions and we'll we'll see if I'm a little ah we'll see if I'm a little more cheerier in the next. Ah the next episode. Um.

04:32.49
aaronmannes
Um, yeah.

INTERVIEW:

00:53.78
aaronmannes
Welcome to the show. This is the photographer mindset podcast as we said we like to get into a lot of the ah the mindset and the the creative headspace of creators I came across your profile. And as ah, a golf lover myself I immediately reached out and was like you got to be on the show because it's such an interesting I mean it's a mix of sports landscape portraiture like whatever you want to call it. It's just ah I find it ah a very pleasing to the eye niche of photography. So welcome to the show Evan and Seth's here as always hey Seth how you doing huh.

01:31.11
Evan Schiller
Thank you for having me on appreciate it guys.

01:36.74
smacey
Yes, sir I'm doing well I think you're you just you're biased to the game of golf so you had to go out and find someone like Evin.

01:46.10
aaronmannes
I did I thought it'd be a ah different little take on things. Um I'm curious I mean Evan you're going to tell us our story but or your story but I want to hear you know from the beginning. Yeah, your love for the game and how it transitioned into photography. What came first. How did it transition.

02:01.90
Evan Schiller
You know? yeah.

02:03.66
aaronmannes
How did it become your profession now. How do you transition from thinking professional golf to professional photography. Um all those little things and yeah I think we'll we'll just go from there.

02:16.12
Evan Schiller
Okay, yeah, well well golf, neither golf or photography was really you know like when I was a kid. It was never neither one was planned. My father got me introduced. You know, introduced me to the game. He loved it. I mean i. Was never a professional but you know I know maybe he was at best a nine handicap um and so he's gave me my first lessons he took me to drive range. He took me to the golf course and so I you know I started getting interested and I started playing and I think it was in.

02:39.24
aaronmannes
Um.

02:53.25
Evan Schiller
High school. Um where I met a couple guys on the golf team and they said you know you should try out so I tried out and wasn't any big deal. The coach watched me swing and goes. Okay, you're on the team. It wasn't any great. Yeah, um so that's you know where my.

03:06.13
aaronmannes
Good enough.

03:12.90
Evan Schiller
And I had played in some you know junior tournaments and things like that growing up, you know? So yeah I mean I probably started playing tournaments when I was pretty young. Um, she's I don't even know twelve thirteen something like that.

03:27.80
aaronmannes
Um, yeah.

03:31.70
Evan Schiller
Um, then I played high school golf and played college golf and even when I got out of college I didn't think I was good enough to play professional golf but my father was always really supportive. He goes. You know what? Why don't you just give it a shot. You know you don't want to look back. 10 years and say hey I wish I had tried to do this and then it's too late right? So he goes listen I'll support you to the degree I can emotionally and somewhat financially and if it gets too expensive. We'll you know we'll get some guys together and you know get a group to sponsor you so that's.

03:53.24
aaronmannes
Um, yeah.

04:08.52
Evan Schiller
You know how it started off and it was you know it was kind of rough starting off? yeah because I remember playing you know Amateur golf and it was It was a lot of fun. You know you'd go to these really nice tournaments and you'd be with your buddies and they treat you really nice and um.

04:10.88
aaronmannes
Yeah.

04:28.36
Evan Schiller
Yeah, it was. It was really nice was fun and then my intro to professional golf was playing mini tours in Florida where you're driving in carts and you're playing with these guys you know or you know. Been out there for a long time and they're kind of a little bit rough and beaten and you know it just didn't seem like golf to me and as it was really soured me but I said anyway I stuck with it and you know I played a lot of tournaments I played on mini tours I played a little bit in Europe. You know I went to the tour school and made us to the finals 1 year um and it was I think I'm kind of fast forwarding this story. Um I think it was a nineteeneighty I want to say 7 or 8 I was playing in the California open. And um, it was out in Palm Springs and it was the middle of summer. It was one hundred and twenty degrees it was the hottest I'd ever experienced and anyway somebody said hey. You know you guys when you're done with this tournament should go down the street and play this this new course it just opened up. It happened to be the stadium course of pj west it was a pete diy golf course and it's okay so the morning after tournament we got up really early. My friend Tom Patrie and I went down and um.

05:51.13
Evan Schiller
Teed off early so we would beat the heat and we came to the ninth hole and it was this beautiful peat de hole it a slight little doglike left and had the sand trap running the length of the fairway. It had the railroad ties and then the back drop the back of it. Yeah, you know was. Backdrop was this beautiful mountain and there was a lake and there was a perfect reflection in the lake of the mountain it was. It was beautiful even though it was you know a little bit later in the morning it was still really beautiful. In fact, the whole is the name of the hole is called reflection and it like didn't have cell phones then so I see you know I should I really wish I had a camera um so I went home and bought a camera you know? Ah I think it was a manulta thirty five millimeter and started toting it along with me just taking pictures of some of the courses taking pictures of my buddies I would hang them on the wall. Just for kicks you know I'd give some to my friends and then a number of years later I think was like four or five years later the same guy Tom who I had played with was an assistant pro at westchester country club and in New York and I had been working as an assistant. At club down the street Quaker Ridge and he said you know would you like to come over here and work and so I talked. It's yeah sure. Um, and while I was over there. They had the buque classic the tour vent and.

07:20.73
Evan Schiller
You know so toms you know why don't you put some of these photos. You've been taking up in the pro shop and see if we can sell some and I laughed at that idea because I just thought who the hell's going to buy these things right? I mean I had no real photography background I mean my mother was a good photographer. My father was a.

07:30.94
aaronmannes
Yeah.

07:39.88
Evan Schiller
Filmmaker not professionally, but you know you know amateur filmmaker. Um, but that was about it I never took a photography class and anyway so we put the photos up in the pro shop and the first day a few of them sold to my surprise and we put a few more and they sold and. Then I did it at a few other clubs in the area and that's how it got started kicked off however many years ago um

08:06.38
aaronmannes
That's really that's really cool and it's cool I saw that Youtube click or that or clip that interview where you talk about that shot with the reflection and how how this one landscape in a sense just encourage you inspired you to buy a camera and get into photography.

08:11.99
Evan Schiller
Um, yeah.

08:21.56
Evan Schiller
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

08:23.51
aaronmannes
Think that's ah, that's a cool moment like a specific hole. Um and and like golf a specific hole can make or break a guy's year you know in terms of are they going to make a q school or the tour or this tournament or the cut that then allows them to get paid to keep going like it.

08:32.95
Evan Schiller
Um, yeah.

08:43.40
aaronmannes
It just is very. There's some parallels here for sure.

08:46.23
Evan Schiller
Yeah, and ironically um, years later my wife and I bought a place out there a little a condo little condo and you know we lived just down the street from there. You know we've got out in the winter we since you know I since sold it and I had. You know pj west became a client of mine. So I you know I photographed and went down. They have six six courses there I photographed all the courses. But every time I'd go back to that ninth hole to take photos of it I remember that day and how different it is now because when when I was there I mean it was just a golf course. And desert sand and now all holes are lined with houses or yeah houses or condos just lined so different. Yeah, there was nothing out there now. It's you know, completely built over. Um, so it's changed a lot so but every time I come back to that hole I remember that.

09:28.91
aaronmannes
Um, ah injurson.

09:39.96
aaronmannes
So do you have photos? Yeah, do you have photos from before all the condos or or both got you. It's cool. It reminds me of um.

09:43.12
Evan Schiller
That day I yeah I do yeah they're somewhere buried in a box.

09:56.90
aaronmannes
I don't know if you've ever read read the book. There's a book tour confidential um by you and porter I think is the author and golfer and it just talks about the grind and for people that don't know a little bit about golf I mean we see the we see the best players of every week and sometimes there can be trends and.

10:02.51
Evan Schiller
Right.

10:14.30
aaronmannes
We all know you know the rories and the tiger woods and the people that are kind of guaranteed to be in tournaments but there's this whole other echelon of golfers that first of all, you're paying for every tournament that you enter a good amount of money to enter a tournament and if you don't make the cut you get $0

10:33.70
Evan Schiller
Um, yeah, yeah.

10:33.72
aaronmannes
Money. So if you're missing a lot of cuts and you're one of these players that's starting off and trying to make it. That's where Evan was talking about getting sponsorship and having a lot of people pool money that are kind of betting on you and that is a ton of pressure that's.

10:48.72
Evan Schiller
Yeah, because most you know most guys are not although now there's more opportunities to make money than when I was playing but still, it's sells some more expensive to travel. You know you got hotel and food and car and plane and what have you? yeah.

10:51.58
aaronmannes
That's a ton of pressure.

11:02.17
aaronmannes
Um, yeah.

11:07.77
aaronmannes
Yeah, so in this book he he went over miscuts by 1 stroke how many times he missed a cut by 1 stroke and the difference between that one putt are not ah equated to $400000 in in his lifetime. So like to to 0 like.

11:07.79
Evan Schiller
So.

11:18.82
Evan Schiller
Um, yeah, yeah, yep.

11:25.27
aaronmannes
Because of one shot. Um, so when people talk about like the yips or not able to Putt or the pressure gets to them in golf it it really surrounds. Ah ah around that sort of financial piece. Um for a good portion of the field that's out there that get the opportunity to make a name for themselves or.

11:39.25
Evan Schiller
Um, yeah.

11:44.39
aaronmannes
Or go home and never be seen again. You know so ah.

11:45.99
Evan Schiller
We used to call. Yeah, we used to call them trunk slammer. So if you missed the cut you were throwing your bag in your trunk and slamming it and you joke with one another god you do I'm slamming it this week

11:51.51
aaronmannes
Trucks. Yeah yeah.

11:53.90
smacey
Um.

11:57.64
aaronmannes
Um, man I mean it's a it's a.

12:04.40
aaronmannes
Ah, well I mean it it is ah I Love the game. It's a frustrating game. It's like um I mean there there is a golf God somewhere that that plays Puppet Master I Think with some of our some of our rounds but enough about golf for now we're going to get into.

12:13.91
Evan Schiller
Yep.

12:17.23
Evan Schiller
Yes.

12:22.68
aaronmannes
Golf stuff but we want to get into the photography stuff. Um, you're big with the drone right now you have a monster drone What what is that baby. You're flying is that is that ah a helicopter. Basically yeah.

12:25.60
Evan Schiller
Um, here.

12:29.92
Evan Schiller
Yeah thing. Yeah, yeah, well essentially I mean mean it's a flying camera I mean basically um I have been using for about a year now. Um Sony Air peak it's

12:44.75
aaronmannes
Wow.

12:46.80
smacey
A.

12:48.90
Evan Schiller
Sony's first foray into the drone world. Um, before that I had been using and I still do at times for some things and Dgi inspire too. Um, but when Sony came out with this thing. Ah you know the the camera on a.

13:00.16
aaronmannes
Um.

13:07.80
Evan Schiller
The inspires micro four thirdds camera and there's no drone out there other than if you make your own that can fly a full frame Dslr at you so but ah, you know you could build the drone and then you know build a gimbal for it. Or maybe buy a gimbal and okay and then hook a camera up to it. But when Sony came out with this all in 1 system that they built specifically for that in other words, the drone is built to fly Sony cameras with. It designated sony lenses I jumped on that I did you know I did my due diligence but essentially yeah I am flying a Sony air peak I use a Sony a 7 r 5 or 5 that just came out six months ago.

13:59.36
aaronmannes
You yeah, that's what I shoot I would not put that up in the air I wouldn't want to. There's no way oh is it is it a little scary. It must have been a little scary the first couple times. Yeah.

14:02.65
Evan Schiller
61 yeah it's it goes up all the time. So at first it was at first it was like holy shit. Holy you know holy shit.

14:17.51
aaronmannes
No, you can you can swear for that on this show. That's fine. Yeah I'd be swearing.

14:17.77
smacey
You absolutely can.

14:21.76
Evan Schiller
Because you know I'm applying this thing that's I mean this huge um compared to what I was a big drone flying this um you know full frame Dslr camera with you know I have I one two through 4 I think I use a four lenses different lenses. You know you're limited. Can't use all the lenses because some of them are just too heavy. You know like the um the the 50 gm 1 one point two is too heavy so I use the the 1.4. Um, so yeah, it's been a real game changer I mean well.

14:41.95
aaronmannes
Um, yeah.

14:59.53
Evan Schiller
You know the quality of the images are just you know so far superior to any any other drone out there now other unless you're flying. Ah you know some drone if lives at Dslr and you know it's um, there's a lot more to it than you know with a. With a lot of these drones. You know you take them out of the box and bo you know you off, you know what? the inspires a little more. You know you had to you know the the landing gear will go up and down. You had to mount the camera. You know they put a lens on but other than that you know put the props on and you're off, um, you know with this, you got to.

15:22.64
aaronmannes
Um.

15:34.81
aaronmannes
Um, yeah.

15:37.87
Evan Schiller
You got to put the gimbal on then you got to balance it? Um, yeah, you know? yeah it is yeah so it takes you know it takes a little longer to set up and put you know and put down. Um you know it's bigger and heavier. Um, you know it's a little more complicated. It's.

15:42.20
aaronmannes
Yeah, it's serious. It looks serious I mean just in that video. Um.

15:57.15
Evan Schiller
You know the flight time is you know, less substantially less I mean they just came out with some longer life batteries. But you know the longer life batteries. You know, probably it can stay up 13 minutes max but more like twelve twelve and a half

16:14.32
aaronmannes
Yeah, got to get it down safe. You can't mess.

16:16.23
Evan Schiller
But yeah, you got to get. You're not goingnna fly to 13 you're gonna fly until you know there's I have it set so it gives me a warning when it's at 15% so yeah but the the nice thing is it's it's hot swappable. In other words I don't have to turn it off I can just leave it there and you know put.

16:23.93
aaronmannes
Me.

16:34.64
Evan Schiller
Switch out the batteries real quick and I go right back up So I just I travel around with a but lot of batteries.

16:38.77
aaronmannes
Yeah, now when did that Sony come out to be honest I've never even heard of the Sony drone.

16:44.54
Evan Schiller
It came out where are we here now I want to say it's close coming up on maybe two years ago maybe I think maybe the first what what year are we in 2023 we're going to to.

16:53.31
aaronmannes
Okay, all right Seth did you did you hear that Sony made drones.

17:01.81
Evan Schiller
Maybe the first ones came out the beginning of 2022 maybe the first versions. Yeah, that's what I want to say? Um, yeah yeah.

17:11.70
aaronmannes
Okay, so a year two years ago yeah relatively new. That's that's pretty cool I didn't I haven't heard much of it. Ah, Seth have you.

17:21.38
Evan Schiller
It's.

17:22.51
smacey
I didn't even know Sony made a drone.

17:24.88
aaronmannes
Um, yeah, that's so that's all I'm saying.

17:27.50
Evan Schiller
And yeah, they yeah so yeah, it's it's um, it's not for everybody. You know it's not like you know we're a lot of people will go. You know they go buy up mavic to pro or Mavic three you know there's a lot of people because it's. You know? Well, First of all, it's a lot less expensive and it's not the kind of drone you're going to. You know this is unless you're using it. You're you using your profession I don't think you're going to get one of these just for kicks, you know it's quite an investment but it's been real game changer.

17:46.63
aaronmannes
Um.

17:47.24
smacey
So.

17:52.48
aaronmannes
Yeah, right? That's that's very cool all right? So so getting into get yeah I'm sure I mean golf courses are big and to be able to get that vantage point I mean there's pictures of you climbing up ladders to try to get a little bit higher. You don't have to do that.

18:03.26
Evan Schiller
Yeah.

18:12.18
aaronmannes
Much anymore. Um, so in terms of ratio right now in terms of shooting um and your landscape shots of golf courses. Would you say it's 8020 drone to handheld or fifty fifty where are we at.

18:29.60
Evan Schiller
It's probably more than 8020 yeah they're mostly shooting with that. But you know and I think it's it's gone more with the drone since I started using the sony now it's because.

18:30.33
aaronmannes
Yeah, so most most of yourself.

18:45.32
Evan Schiller
Before I was shooting with a Fuji gfx 100 and which is a not really nice camera but you know now that I got the the Sony instead of climbing up a ladder I mean I could just hover this thing.

19:03.66
aaronmannes
Um, yeah.

19:03.82
Evan Schiller
Seven feet off the ground or 8 rather than getting my camera crawling taking a tripod crawling up the ladder I can just you know I can I can fly it. You know six feet off the ground eight feet off the ground ten feet off I can move it back and forth. So it's pretty much.

19:08.49
aaronmannes
Yeah, of course.

19:21.49
Evan Schiller
Been shooting mostly with it.

19:23.39
aaronmannes
What are some of the emotional connections or feelings similarities. Um from being a golfer and we all know a great shot. Actually we don't maybe all know that I do um, Seth Golfs a little bit but some of our listeners might. But I mean everyone that's I think that's what the game's addicting is because you can day one and maybe you hit 100 balls of ah you know 100 balls in a bucket and you hit 1 perfectly and you're like oh if I can do that once I suppose I could do it every time. Um, and there is some sort of like crazy rush that happens with like ah a well-struck golf ball I mean as you get better and you you try to shape the the shot and armmon hit a low stinger that's drawing to the left and you. Pull these things off. It's very artistic and and there is a good sense of like reward external sort of validation. What Parallels have you found golfing and getting ah an amazing sunset or sunrise or or shadows or a golf shot. I mean photography golf shot. Um, what sort of Parallels can you draw from both of those.

20:40.39
Evan Schiller
Well, it would be like you know going out on some morning or afternoon and it's just this incredible scene. You know, maybe it's some unusual weather pattern or there's you know like I was in California I woke up one morning and there was this low level fog. The golf course kind of sat down in this little bowl and it was this low level fog that just was hanging there and you know the sun came up over the hill and you know hit the hit the it was just it was wonderful scene and you're there to capture it and it comes out just the way you thought it might um. It's very satisfying. You know there was a I think there was a moment in abandoned dunes a number of years ago or I took this photo you may have seen it of the fifth hole and you know it's probably 1 of my if not my one of my favorite shots I've ever captured and.

21:20.92
aaronmannes
Um.

21:38.19
Evan Schiller
It was a um well you know abandoned dunes is along the coast and it was this I think it was end into April beginning in may it was this overcast misty somewhat foggy morning damp and you know I went out there. It was it was cold. Had my rainsuit on him hat and I wasn't expecting much you know it was misting and the fog was kind of coming in off the water and then you know you could watch the fog I actually runt run up the cliffs like the wind the air would hit the cliffs and the fog.

22:11.85
aaronmannes
Um.

22:12.60
Evan Schiller
Or and it would kind of roll over the cliffs a little bit I was sitting out there waiting and I knew the golfers were coming so I was probably gonna have to move because they were having a tournament and and I looked on the horizon to the East and there was this little bret break in the clouds. And I still I thought you know if that for some reason I get lucky and there that happens to open up a little bit right? This could be you know this could be Epic. So I mean and it was missing a little bit I don't like to fly my drone in the rain. It's you know it's not great idea. But I said screw it.

22:39.78
aaronmannes
Um, yeah.

22:45.37
aaronmannes
Now.

22:50.35
Evan Schiller
So I flew it out like back towards the fourth green and or kind of hovered it over the cliffs looking down the coast just hoping you know I put I remember I I thought that I got to put new batteries in here. So I can keep that thing up as long as possible case. So because I didn't want to have to.

23:02.75
aaronmannes
Yeah.

23:07.67
Evan Schiller
You know like also sudden the sun comes out now I got to launch the drone and get it over by the time I get it over there. It's gonna be too late. So I said I got have this thing in place because if the sun comes out I mean not and I can hear the golfers coming he a hey Dude what's that that a drone Ne they were talking amongst amongst themselves and.

23:20.84
smacey
Are.

23:24.96
Evan Schiller
The sun broke through for you know thirty Twenty seconds 30 seconds I mean there was I I want to say I got off maybe twelve fifteen frames but only probably 4 or 5 of them were any good like.

23:29.86
aaronmannes
Incredible.

23:44.62
Evan Schiller
Because it was kind of still like some parts of the whole were in sun some were not and mean it was probably 4 or 5 4 or 5 frames that were really good. Um, and then that was it clouds. You know came back over and I said okay I'm happy and it was.

23:55.37
aaronmannes
Um, yeah.

24:02.80
aaronmannes
Um, yeah.

24:02.61
Evan Schiller
When I went back to my room I remember going back to my look at this and I go Wow that was you know worth going out there in the cold and the mist and and yeah, so whenever I'm out there in the morning and that's cold or you know looks like nothing I Always you know I always remember that.

24:10.67
aaronmannes
A yep.

24:22.00
Evan Schiller
Moment you know it's like listen, you just never know you just you just never. It's like you never know when that you know great shot Golf's gonna come so you gotta keep like showing up or keep swinging or you just never know. Yeah.

24:25.37
aaronmannes
Um, just never know and.

24:32.52
aaronmannes
Yeah, keep swinging keep staying in the Present. You can't be thinking too much about the the missed shots and the bad shots and this is a waste of time and driving around aimlessly because then you're gonna you're going to miss that moment if you if you stay in the moment I think it's. Absolutely I mean very similar to the golf mindset in terms of having having to kind of just trust the process. Trust your training. Trust everything that you've done to get to this point and let it go and then and then see what happens.

24:53.56
Evan Schiller
Yeah, it is yeah.

25:09.11
aaronmannes
And sometimes you get lucky sometimes you get a great shot and it has a terrible bounce Sometimes you you have a kind of terrible shot and it turns out okay and I think that's the same with like the weather and shooting and you just.

25:11.82
Evan Schiller
Now.

25:22.44
aaronmannes
Look like a rainy day in a cloudy day but those are the days that kind of break open and get super dramatic or have the potential to you know? So um.

25:27.64
Evan Schiller
Yeah, there was you know it's like you know most shots in golf are mishis they are. It's just that's just part of the you know game and I listened to Brooks keptka.

25:35.14
aaronmannes
Um, yeah, yeah.

25:44.42
Evan Schiller
Talking not too a long ago I don't remember it was an interview or and he one of the things he said he goes I think something shifted for me when I realize that he goes when I go out in the golf course and play I Rarely if ever hit a shot exactly how I want to hit it. You know.

26:01.00
aaronmannes
Um, yeah.

26:03.63
Evan Schiller
It's a little off centerer. It's a little offline. It's not quite on high. It's never exactly how I want it So when I realized that no shots ever gonna be perfect that made a huge difference because what's like it's just never going to be exactly how I want it right.

26:13.56
aaronmannes
Yeah, it makes sense. Yeah I think I think it was Bobby Jones

26:21.88
Evan Schiller
And most and and that's not the like you said the mindset of most people most people think it should be a certain way and when it's not they get upset.

26:28.86
aaronmannes
Um, yeah, right right? It's It's how bad your miss hits are right? like that's that's what it comes down to ah.

26:33.31
Evan Schiller
Yeah, yeah, and he goes you. He says you still intend for it to be great. It's like you show up on a cloudy day and it's Overca I mean I had I was just in California and a number of them and you know just. Just hang out you wait. You could you never know and it would find last the last morning you know we were about just to pack it up and the sun came out. It was beautiful. So yeah, you just don't know.

27:01.46
aaronmannes
Well let's let's move on towards so you start selling a couple of your photos out of westchester country club and they you thought you know who's going to buy these but someone did ah what are the next steps in terms of going to all these courses abandoned Dunes California

27:07.89
Evan Schiller
Um, yeah.

27:18.75
aaronmannes
Ah, Pete die courses. Um I mean I don't know what your count is in terms of courses you photographed, um either professionally or even just on your own. But how how do we get to these next steps where now this is your career.

27:28.26
Evan Schiller
Right.

27:35.60
Evan Schiller
Ah, yeah, so it's interesting. So when I first started. Well first of all, there was no ah social media you know, ah you know there was some email but um.

27:47.93
aaronmannes
Um, right.

27:53.00
Evan Schiller
Wasn't the big thing and there wasn't wasn't nearly it wasn't any of the ways of communicating that you can today in the words like today that there was no drones so you know somebody could go out take a picture with a drone then post it next thing you know 5 minutes they post it on their you know Instagram account there was none of that. So a lot of the communication was through phone calls or let written let and know typed letters emails and at first it started off I was trying to get work. You know via emails or. You know, letters or whatever and it was. You know, not a lot was coming in. You know you throw a lot of lines out but you don't get a lot of bites. Um, you know and and then you know you you basically you do anything just so you can go photograph a golf course like hey can I come out and.

28:38.75
aaronmannes
Um, yeah.

28:47.89
Evan Schiller
Take pictures of golf course I'll give you the photos. You know it was kind of stuff like that which I'm sure guys do today get started. Um, you know and. I Also I remember contacting once I had some photos I contacted some calendar companies I was just trying to figure out ways you know I created a website I was trying to figure out ways to get my work out there or you know how how do I get courses to hire me I mean who the heck's going to hire me I have no track record so you just start writing letters and. Trying to figure out creative ways to you know at least at least get on property at least to let have somebody let you shoot their golf course. You know, give me do I'd be Willing. Do it for free just to get the experience or get my name out there. Maybe they'll buy them. Um, but then after a while. And this is why I think pretty much you know when social media started growing the tide started turning in other words instead of me having to throw some lines out. They were coming back. It's like now the tide's coming back in before it was all going out now.

29:53.10
aaronmannes
Um, yeah.

29:54.53
smacey
Um.

29:55.60
Evan Schiller
Then then it started to turn and come back in.

29:55.81
aaronmannes
Now Did you start social media as it had you already started photography and I take that back. Let me start over a lot of people found social media first and then got into art and photography because oh there's this great vehicle. I can share my work I'm I'm guessing or hearing I think that you started photography and taking photos of of golf courses prior to social media being big so you had that thing already set up.

30:15.70
Evan Schiller
Yep.

30:31.93
aaronmannes
That sort of love and passion already set up Now you have this vehicle to share it.

30:32.80
Evan Schiller
Um, get.

30:36.31
Evan Schiller
Yeah, yeah I was I was shooting way before social media came out. Um, yeah, and even when it started to come out I was just like what is what is this? You know.

30:46.68
aaronmannes
Now Evan how did you survive without getting tons of tons of likes and thumbs up on your art like how did you? How did you sleep at night knowing that thousands of people didn't like your stuff and comment.

30:55.59
smacey
Um.

30:55.94
Evan Schiller
Um I have little idea.

31:04.74
aaronmannes
Fire Fire Fire Emoji You are awesome.

31:07.38
Evan Schiller
It was a lot of sleepless nights now I yeah you kind of wonder like how do yeah, how did you survive? It's you know the yeah that they should call it. Vanity media not social media.

31:18.31
aaronmannes
That's funny.

31:25.62
aaronmannes
Yeah, well you know I mean I did meet you on there and we have you on the podcast. So there there is that social aspect. We like to poke fun of it of course. Um, but like you said it it changed the tide so you have all this you have all this art to share this digital photography and now.

31:27.71
Evan Schiller
Um, yeah, yeah.

31:41.74
aaronmannes
Ah, it was Instagram your main thing for social media Facebook what was it myspace.

31:46.65
Evan Schiller
Well, starting off it was starting off. It was Facebook um, and then it was Twitter and then I I jumped on Instagram I don't know if I jumped on Instagram early. But early enough I mean I got I remember on when Instagram first started I mean you make a post and you that I get 200 followers like you know like nothing I mean it was just like I get 200 new followers a day and I only had 500.

32:09.55
aaronmannes
Oh man.

32:16.85
aaronmannes
The the good old days. Yeah.

32:21.00
Evan Schiller
You know it was just like whoa. This is cool. Um, and now you know it's like you know I got close to 80000 followers and you know it's just a whole different ball game now. Anyway, um, but ah.

32:31.90
aaronmannes
Yeah, for sure for sure.

32:37.90
Evan Schiller
So where were yeah so social media has made a huge difference. It really has um, yeah then I got on Linkedin and Instagram and yeah, that was.

32:49.39
aaronmannes
Um I think Linkedin just want a little sidebar here. Linkedin is like the dark horse that a lot of people love it comes up a lot in this podcast. It's like the sneaky one. It's the sneaky one.

32:54.12
Evan Schiller
Um, yeah, yeah, ah I think a lot of my business now I buy I think a lot comes from that. Um.

33:04.69
aaronmannes
Um, yeah.

33:09.62
Evan Schiller
Yeah, it's yeah it is. It's a sneaky one? yeah.

33:10.25
aaronmannes
I Think that's I think that's where people mean business right? And if they're looking for a photographer that does certain things you have a good chance of being found for that and approached.

33:23.61
Evan Schiller
It's a lot. The whole vibe is a lot different. You know you don't get a lot of the you get it less on Instagram but you know it's like you inevitably you post something somebody's gonna have some critical comment and know I being nice.

33:36.82
aaronmannes
Um, yeah, yeah.

33:39.72
Evan Schiller
Or some but yeah, there's always something. There's always, but you don't get that on Linkedin. It's much more civil much more professional. Yeah.

33:48.19
aaronmannes
Interesting. Yeah I keep making a note and I should probably look into it a little bit more um, just because you know people people bring it up a lot and I don't know Seth do you have a Linkedin.

34:02.73
aaronmannes
Um, yeah, yeah, mine's covered in dust too.

34:02.96
smacey
Somewhere in covered in dust. Um, ah you know I So I yeah I struggle to I Just can't.

34:05.77
Evan Schiller
Yeah, yeah, and I do I use it I use them a lot.

34:19.26
smacey
Place my attention across too many different social media platforms. Otherwise I'll just burst into flames and leave this realm I got to stick with a few you know that I enjoy the user interface of you know I like Instagram's user interface I like.

34:27.72
Evan Schiller
I.

34:30.53
aaronmannes
Um, told you that.

34:35.53
aaronmannes
Um.

34:38.85
smacey
I enjoy it personally Linkedin I I fall asleep on like is it effective I'm sure for some people but like I'm just not excited about it and so when like the user interface isn't exciting to me I lack the passion to.

34:39.30
Evan Schiller
Yeah.

34:55.30
smacey
Get on there and figure out a way to make it useful for me if that makes sense and I just like the idea of putting my time into a couple things and and like we're talking about that could be different for everybody right.

34:59.20
aaronmannes
Um, yeah.

35:00.66
Evan Schiller
Um, yeah, you know.

35:09.73
smacey
Twitter I've tried I can't even tell you how many times to figure that beast out but I don't like it enough to really dig into it and figure it out right? You can even argue that with whatever, whatever and even Instagram I mean I don't have that.

35:14.53
aaronmannes
Um, well first of all, it's called x.

35:18.34
Evan Schiller
Yeah, it's got both.

35:25.87
smacey
Go back and forth between how much time do I Really want to spend on this and I've said it so many times the less time I spend on that damn app the better I perform in every part of my life. You're hearing me speak from passion right now because this is like I'm feeling that way right now I feel like I'm spending too much time on it.

35:38.19
Evan Schiller
Um.

35:43.70
aaronmannes
Um, yeah.

35:45.10
smacey
And I need to step away for in how 4 years this podcast how many times have we said that and every time I do that my performance increases outside of the digital world.

35:55.93
aaronmannes
Yeah, well I mean it totally makes sense totally makes sense I mean time time into anything is time out somewhere you know, um the more I practice golf the worse my photography goes and the more I do photography the worse. My golf game is.

36:01.53
Evan Schiller
Um, yep.

36:02.87
smacey
Um, right.

36:12.52
aaronmannes
So you know yeah I mean it's a skill you got to refine it and if you're spending hours on anything that's different than that I don't want to say it's a waste of time. It's just a different allotment of time. Yeah, yeah.

36:12.57
Evan Schiller
Um, yeah.

36:13.56
smacey
Um, I believe you.

36:23.51
smacey
No, and I'm I don't use the platform as optimally as I should I'm speaking of Instagram I did the thirty days in a row and that was optimal things were happening. Audiences were growing engagement through the roof that was really cool. But. Is just like ah okay so what right? and I'm sure I'll get and I'm sure I'll get back into it night

36:43.94
aaronmannes
Yeah, what's the tradeoff right? yeah.

36:46.83
Evan Schiller
It's a lot what it's a lot different now you can go 38 in row and it' the engagement on on Linkedin on Instagram is way down for everybody. It's it's so saturated.

36:54.60
aaronmannes
Um, yeah, yeah, it's saturated and I think they.

36:58.80
smacey
Yeah, but it also gets to a point where it it gets to a point where you just that's like I get to a point where it's almost like so what right? So what? there's so much more to to life I mean Evan do you have a career without Instagram still for sure.

37:14.80
Evan Schiller
Yeah, well yeah, but I you know and if it wasn't for my business I probably wouldn't even be on it Honestly, it's all for business like well, it's just um I know there's I I have a lot I I get a lot of business from it.

37:16.16
smacey
Right.

37:21.51
aaronmannes
Um, yeah.

37:22.89
smacey
Um, well let's elaborate on that. What do you mean.

37:32.60
smacey
Do you I.

37:33.98
Evan Schiller
Just from people going to my website like yeah purchasing prints I get notes all the time when I shoot a golf course hey is that gonna be on your website. The buy I want to buy a few. Yeah so I get business from there and I get I get Dms all the time for people ask me have you shot this golf course if you shut this golf course. You're gonna shoot this one and what are I How do I get you to come and shoot my golf course. it's it's it's definitely it's for business and if it wasn't for my business. What I do it for kicks probably very little so it it. It has definitely helped my business and I know it's um, ah.

37:56.88
aaronmannes
Um.

37:57.70
smacey
That's awesome.

38:02.51
smacey
Right? We'll see.

38:04.13
aaronmannes
Um, what do you think because I sense this.

38:13.33
Evan Schiller
Yeah, because and also because people ask me all the time and you know and I think people will comment that I really enjoy seeing your stuff every day and it's fun and I just you know I sometimes I make my bucket list from your you know from your posts and you know and I also have.

38:23.43
aaronmannes
Um, no.

38:29.38
smacey
Wow.

38:32.70
Evan Schiller
Also have guys who handle you know Instagram and Facebook ads for me. They they you know they're pumping out ads and so it's all connected in link so that help one one kind of feeds the other. So yeah.

38:49.90
aaronmannes
It's very cool I I mean I'm getting this from those last couple of sentences but and there's something super personal about golf or golf courses or this hole or that hole. Um, and um I mean it's a really neat.

39:00.83
Evan Schiller
Um, maybe.

39:07.80
aaronmannes
Niche of photography. It's it's a landscape but there's such a personal touch to it to each whole. Um I remember back in the days when you know tiger woods the the Ea Sports golf game put on Tpc River highland the cromwell course the travelers.

39:07.90
Evan Schiller
Um, yeah.

39:25.16
aaronmannes
And that's the course that I've played many times and to be able to play that like on the video game was such a selling factor for me in terms of like getting an Xbox and buying that game I'm not a I don't play games I'm not a gamer I've did it very little in my life. But that alone created.

39:34.50
Evan Schiller
Right.

39:44.22
aaronmannes
Ah, basically a $500 purchase when I was younger and $500 is a lot of money to get Xbox to be able to play tiger woods at River Highlands where I've played golf and like let's see what score I can do and blah blah blah but the just the the connection to.

39:45.44
Evan Schiller
She yeah.

39:58.58
smacey
Um, give you.

40:02.45
aaronmannes
Golf and certain holes are going to a tournament one of these tournaments that pros are playing um and being able like I've I've stood there and I I birdied that hole or I pard that hole with a chip in like there's such a connection and I can see that being like you know behind you, you have 2 beautiful golf holes. If anyone had an emotional moment on any of those golf holes. They're going to want to purchase that photo.

40:24.22
Evan Schiller
Right? Yeah, that's true. Yeah, they you know they usually purchase photos of courses. They played you know in that I mean I get Dms all the time ago. Yeah, once I go play that I'm going to buy a print from you of it.

40:42.00
aaronmannes
It's so cool. That's very cool.

40:42.81
smacey
Now how many golf photographers videographers are there in the space of the you know Instagram Social media no

40:42.94
Evan Schiller
Yeah.

40:50.80
Evan Schiller
I I have no idea I have really no I I have no idea and I honestly don't really pay that much attention to it. Um I do know that there's I get Dms. Quite a bit um from guys who want to you know? Oh I play golf I'm a photographer and how do I get into golf photography. How did you get into it. Give me some tips on how to you know, get started I be guy, get those all the time.

41:22.98
Evan Schiller
Yeah I don't know but I don't know what I I don't know that I tell them a lot I said I said you know I think everybody should kind of find their own way. Don't copy me? No I I found my own way to just find you know, but.

41:24.16
aaronmannes
That's cool.

41:37.38
smacey
So you offer them any piece of advice or not really.

41:42.12
Evan Schiller
I said I'm not sure they have a lot of advice tips I said just keep doing what you do and love and you don't find your way you know.

41:51.67
aaronmannes
Now are you are you professionally being hired for private courses and or public courses. But by the course or is this a Pga entity like you're you're taking photos of the tournament people there or a little of both. You know. Where where does the where's the money coming from was a personal personal prince from um people clients.

42:11.79
Evan Schiller
The.

42:18.15
Evan Schiller
No, it's it's the courses are hired me or you know, almost a hundred percent of the shoots I haven't shot a tourna in a long time I've I've have shot few of but I've done it in a while.

42:22.66
aaronmannes
Got you.

42:34.41
Evan Schiller
But you know majority if not all my shoots now are because of courses are hiring me. Um you know I was in October I was down in Florida for almost three weeks I shot you know 1 2 4 5 courses down there. They were all commissioned. They all hired me and then I just got back last week I just right before Thanksgiving I I was out in California for ten days shooting four courses they had all hired me so heading down back down to Florida on Sunday to shoot. And other course. So yeah, these are all yeah and they're all because of the courses hiring me. Yeah I know I get like I'll get messages on Instagram a lot time hey come and shoot my golf course.

43:17.56
aaronmannes
Very cool.

43:24.15
aaronmannes
Um, yeah, ah.

43:27.49
Evan Schiller
I You know because I just don't I'd lot I Lots times I think people don't quite understand that my business model quite I mean I know there's guys who go around just taking photos of golf courses and posting them on social media. But that's not my look kind of my business.

43:41.76
aaronmannes
No, and I think that's the battle for everyone that does photography or content creation. Professionally we're trying to get paid for it and trying to take it seriously and do it really professionally is the undercutting of like I'll I'll go shoot your your golf course you know like.

43:49.44
Evan Schiller
Yep.

44:00.50
aaronmannes
The the free guy that's going to go do it and you know if they want to go that way. They're probably going to deal with some potential headaches or or issues that they're going to have to versus dealing with a professional doesn't mean those people aren't talented. Doesn't mean they don't have skill doesn't mean they.

44:13.42
Evan Schiller
Um, what.

44:16.90
aaronmannes
Can't get really lucky with an amazing sunrise or sunset and have a spectacular photo. Um, and sometimes it can go smoothly but there's something to be said for bringing your car to a certified mechanic versus you know the neighbor down the street that says I can fix breaks.

44:25.37
Evan Schiller
Um, yeah.

44:33.40
Evan Schiller
Yeah, yeah, and I'm sure it's part of any industry on some level.

44:35.85
aaronmannes
They might do a great job. Yeah, yeah for sure for sure. Ah, so so going forward. You know you? So you're at this point where. You're you're getting hired for all these golf courses. You're traveling around at least the Us right now mostly Europe um, maybe sometimes um and taking photos is it when you go there with your deliverables I'm curious maybe personally but is it. Yeah I'm gonna get. Your signature your signature hole or a couple of holes during this time am I going to spend days there getting and the best shot I can of each hole of your course does it depend on the package and what they really want um and the last follow-up question are you incorporating any video with your drone and. Ah, cinematic sort of views of um, the golf course as well.

45:32.96
Evan Schiller
Yes, um, so yeah, there's different packages. For instance, this last trip to California all of the shoots. All 4 of them were 2 day shoots so they essentially they hired me for two days and they said? yeah, go go at it go have at you know here are some of the holes that we want photograph I of the nat we're just going to leave it up to you? Um, you know there's but there's even with a 2 wo-day shoot. There's a lot of coordination. You know, like with the superintendent or golf. You know like a couple of places they like 1 place didn't allow carts for 4 days prior to the shoote because they didn't want car tracks all over the place. Yeah, it was very smart I mean they had the benefit of you know there was a day of rain so it made it easy. You know they wanted the golf course to look.

46:15.67
aaronmannes
Smart Smart. Love.

46:25.24
aaronmannes
Um, pristine.

46:27.18
Evan Schiller
Sharp and the you know the superintendent every morning you know I give him a list of holes and he'd have his guys up early out mowing fairways Racon bunkers you know mowing fairways approaches green so it looked you know pristine and you know some places do that they go above So there's a lot of coordinating.

46:39.51
aaronmannes
Um, yeah.

46:46.50
Evan Schiller
With you know the superintendent and the golf staff this shoot I'm going to do in Florida is a much bigger 1 they want still images of all eighteen olds and they want video of all eighteen olds so I got to do both so you know that's you know it could take me.

47:00.48
aaronmannes
Um, well.

47:05.22
aaronmannes
Yeah I would think so because you you want good light on every hole. So and.

47:05.89
Evan Schiller
5 or 6 days and yeah, you know the window to shoot especially in Florida you know, maybe an hour in the morning and maybe an hour and a half in the afternoon somewhere in that vicinity you know.

47:17.92
aaronmannes
Yeah, yeah, it's tricky and you're yeah and you're covering a lot of ground. So I mean you can't you got to would would you pigeon off 3 holes for the hour 2 holes for the yeah.

47:23.30
Evan Schiller
Pretty well light's probably an hour yeah

47:31.27
Evan Schiller
It depends you know it depends you know I mean I can usually what I like to do is I like to do it junks like if there's 5 or 6 holes nearby and I can get around them pretty quickly. Yeah I can you know I could shoot 6 holes in an afternoon. You know, get some barriers I mean it's with the drone. It's you could move it around without moving around. Well.

47:57.70
aaronmannes
Yeah, yeah for sure. Ah, just another follow up question and Seth you can jump in I think I'm done after this but a lot of questions I'm getting golf excited even though golf can be a sleeper sport to me. It's just a beautiful game.

48:07.52
Evan Schiller
Um.

48:14.66
aaronmannes
Um, but you it sounds like you wished you had a camera on that hole in California the the whole reflection which is a really cool photo. Maybe we'll overlay it on the video terren ah overlay it on the video and what we.

48:23.34
Evan Schiller
Um, yeah.

48:33.54
aaronmannes
Or what you came from that was like I need to go buy a camera so your passion obviously was born from this moment on the golf course now. Did you veer anywhere else now you have a camera does camera inspire you to oh I want to go to Yosemite and I want to I want to take my skills from these landscapes that are. Very particular their their gulf landscapes and transfer that to you know, big sur in California or while you're out in these places like I want to see these national parks landscapes wildlife portrait photography anything else or has it always been for the last.

49:09.85
Evan Schiller
Um, yep.

49:09.91
aaronmannes
What are we at thirty years thirty plus years ah golf course photography and are you bored of it.

49:17.30
Evan Schiller
No not bored I I love it. You know and I think also just having this new equipment and the Sony therapy. It's not. It's like I can't think of another way to say but it feels like real photography now like I got you know I got myself like a.

49:33.39
aaronmannes
Um, yeah.

49:35.77
Evan Schiller
Full frame Dslr real thing and I'm flying us on a drone versus this little you know and then the little you know camera on the inspired took some nice fixers. Um, it's funny. You should mention Yosemite because I wait I mean I haven't in a while but I made a number of trips up there.

49:39.88
aaronmannes
Yeah.

49:54.97
Evan Schiller
And I remember driving around and capturing all these landscapes for no other reason than I just love I never did anything with them. They were sitting in a box. You know there were slides transparency I still haven't sitting upset and I just love traveling around taking pictures up in Yosemite and I drove down fix her and did the same thing. Um.

50:02.77
aaronmannes
Awesome.

50:14.80
Evan Schiller
And to africa 5 times I think yeah well I played golf down there played the south african tour for 1 2 three years and while I was there we went out to the Bush on Safari and I just.

50:20.25
aaronmannes
Um, wow.

50:25.72
aaronmannes
Of ah.

50:32.73
Evan Schiller
Absolutely loved it and I had my camera and I took some photos and I said I'm going to come back one day and so my wife and I have been back there 1 2 3 4 times just done you know and actually 1 trip who's funny because 1 trip the first trip we made.

50:40.85
aaronmannes
So cool.

50:49.36
Evan Schiller
I had made 3 previously but 1 the first one I made with her. We went to South Africa and we spent four days or five days four days up in the Bush a place called mall mall some just on the edge of kruger national park is is an amazing place and. Then we flew back to Johannesburg and I went and actually shot some golf courses down the coast and at the end of the trip we looked back and we said I think next time we're just going to spend the whole time in the Bush and every year we went back.

51:22.73
aaronmannes
Now.

51:24.79
Evan Schiller
Like next year we spent ten days but it was just no golf courses just in the Bush and then next day next year we would spent eighteen days out but and just taking photos of wildlife I have I mos there's 1 right here have it's sitting to my wall that I took of a leopard you know? ah.

51:32.22
aaronmannes
Um, yeah, now is your is your.

51:40.38
aaronmannes
Sick Now we're talking now we're talking Let's get into the leopard now I get I can.

51:43.27
Evan Schiller
Yeah I was ten twelve year I mean it was like yeah and it was just it's like I it is a big 40 by 50 print I have up my wall just leopard that I took a picture of and and. We had seen her the same blep two years in a row and the one time we were there I mean we saw her like every day and our guide said that is so unusual and then we saw her the next year

52:08.27
aaronmannes
Um, ah, that's that's incredible. That's your leopard. That's your spirit animal. Yeah.

52:11.93
Evan Schiller
Yeah, and so that was every time we go back and I said we just want to see cats I just want to see leopards and cheet does and 5 cats. Yep, we used to have 6 Yeah.

52:19.54
aaronmannes
And now you have 5 cats in your house. This is this is where I do the funny look to the camera.

52:23.19
smacey
Oh.

52:32.70
smacey
1 of those.

52:32.81
aaronmannes
Five five tennis

52:33.85
Evan Schiller
And they're no blueprint. They're no different than those big ones in Africa they're just smaller.

52:40.62
aaronmannes
Yeah, right exactly. Thank Thank goodness. They're a little smaller. Um I did have a.

52:45.98
Evan Schiller
Um, yeah was my friend said if my cat if my cat were the size of my dog. It would eat me.

52:46.10
smacey
Um.

52:52.96
aaronmannes
Oh absolutely if my dog were the size of my dog I think it would eat me which doesn't make sense but it does to me? Um, anywho ah, just you know to to round up the conversation we're we're coming in on an hour

52:58.12
smacey
Are.

53:10.48
aaronmannes
Um, so you you did kind of expand and and you do expand and and take photos of different things in golf course I just have to ask does does your wife play golf. Okay, so she understands because I'm sitting here going.

53:19.50
Evan Schiller
Yes, yes.

53:26.18
aaronmannes
I mean there's all the memes and the jokes about the husband out for oh, it's a 4 hour round but it's really 7 hours and not only do you love golf and play and I guess that's a good follow-up. Question has this overtaken your love for playing. Um.

53:28.27
smacey
He.

53:43.54
aaronmannes
But you also have to tell her like hey I'm going to go I have to take photographs of golf courses as well and I also want to play at times 2 is that cool. So yeah, good. Okay.

53:54.85
smacey
Um.

53:56.28
Evan Schiller
Yes, she's in she's into it. Ah, we in fact I played you know in the last ten years I played more golf with her than anybody else and she like she's like she'll look at the photos.

54:04.30
aaronmannes
Good. Well then this this works.

54:12.44
Evan Schiller
And she's gotten to know the architect she goes. Oh yeah, is that a pete die course or is that a you know just say is that a Donald Ross or you know? Yeah yeah, she loves the architect. She loves the architecture you know I'll start rattling off golf courses and golf course architecture.

54:18.95
smacey
Yeah.

54:19.11
aaronmannes
Oh that's hot right? ah.

54:25.51
aaronmannes
Who.

54:28.36
Evan Schiller
And she'll start saying oh yeah, you yeah, he did thiso and this one you know it's like yeah, it's a Donald Ross well yeah he did Oakland Hills and hill and you yeah.

54:33.47
aaronmannes
Wow Baby baby talks lower. Yeah, you know that that makes sense that this works.

54:43.20
Evan Schiller
In fact, she was just down here before the call pack and count were sending out my 2004 calendar she was just packing calendars. Yeah yep.

54:52.47
aaronmannes
Oh look this? what? Ah what a working relationship I love it I love it. You know, have overlapping interests. It makes things really nice. That's great. That's awesome. Ah, Seth any any concluding questions any thoughts.

54:53.31
smacey
There you go.

54:59.92
Evan Schiller
Yeah.

55:08.26
smacey
Um, I'm just listening to 2 golf guys really talk about their stuff mom over here she over here shooting a hundred. So.

55:10.20
aaronmannes
Yeah, yeah, do do hey edits it. Oh.

55:15.61
Evan Schiller
When she also might she edits my calendar to yeah she edits it. She's a writer. She's a marketer and a writer and she'll actually she writes some things for it and she edits it. Yeah.

55:22.82
smacey
Oh.

55:30.67
aaronmannes
Very cool I like those joint projects I Think that's a nice I think in relationships the Venn Diagram is nice with a little bit of overlap a little bit of separate passions I think that's good as well and some overlap of each other's passions and and encouragement is ah.

55:33.52
Evan Schiller
Yeah.

55:39.00
Evan Schiller
Yeah.

55:47.91
aaronmannes
Is a nice thing so that sounds like a winning formula to me? Yeah, ah how often are you golfing these days where you put the camera down and you're not thinking about it and or are you always bringing the camera out like I always bring the camera out on the golf course. But for wildlife.

55:51.90
Evan Schiller
Yep, it is.

55:57.44
Evan Schiller
I.

56:06.43
Evan Schiller
Ah, actually this year I haven't played that much just because so bi it's probably the busiest year I've ever had shooting? Yeah, just and it's tough that like when I'm on shoots. It's tough. It's people say oh you play All it's it's There's not always time.

56:11.59
aaronmannes
Well good, Good congrats.

56:22.84
aaronmannes
Um, no, ah.

56:23.63
Evan Schiller
It's tough, especially this time a year when the days are short. You know I mean I I was was one day in this last shoot where I literally I was out shooting in the morning I didn't even have tiny breakfast because I had to get back to the room to charge the batteries because I needed. Need to charge all my batteries and need about 3 hours for the drum. So I it's like oh my god I got to be back here I left the golf course at ten o'clock was a late. It was a long morning. Um, and I got to the room as I got to be back at the golf course.

56:43.71
aaronmannes
Yeah.

56:58.97
Evan Schiller
And oneirti I So I don't know if I barely have enough time to charge batteries.

57:04.45
aaronmannes
Yeah, no, that makes for a long day where you got to just get it all. Chop chop organized. So listen we like to keep these around an hour we appreciate your time. Um.

57:04.91
Evan Schiller
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

57:18.35
Evan Schiller
Who oh thank you? Ah well my well Instagram is Evan Shiller for they can find Evan Chiller Photography

57:20.46
aaronmannes
Where can people find you give us a little plug of your work.

57:27.97
aaronmannes
And we'll put all the links in our episode as well.

57:31.45
Evan Schiller
Yeah, and now my website is Evan Fisher Evan Chiller Photography Dot Com yeah yeah

57:37.42
aaronmannes
Well, that's easy that is easy. Um, you know I said it in the beginning I think it was before recording. But I think you figured out the transition from golf as as we age and maybe get a little bit less. Um, ah.

57:38.26
smacey
Um, awesome, easy.

57:55.12
aaronmannes
Pro at Golf ah or skilled at golf as we age as a golfer you love hearing the phrase. Wow Great shot and you've been able to transfer that into photography and we'll continually be able to get the comment Great shot.

58:11.91
smacey
Are.

58:13.33
aaronmannes
For the rest of your life. You won't even be able to you. You could be 103 not be able to lift a club and people will still be saying hey that was a great shot. So ah, bravo to you for for you think you figured out the loophole you got it.

58:13.82
Evan Schiller
I hope.

58:30.11
smacey
Um.

58:30.56
Evan Schiller
Thank you? Well when they stop hitting they stop saying great shot I'm going to get a different job. Yeah.

58:30.88
aaronmannes
You got it.

58:36.42
aaronmannes
Yeah, a new Hobby design The golf horses you've seen them all. Maybe you could start designing them. You know.

58:44.70
Evan Schiller
I Used to on my pad and my in school when I got bored with design golf holes.

58:49.56
aaronmannes
There you go, you're you're what we call a golf nut. At this point you're drawing golf courses. You're taking pictures of them and you're playing at ah at a professional level so you you love the game I do too. It gives a lot back. Um. I always say you want to know someone play golf with them. You'll know exactly who they are in that four to five hours you'll know if you want to be their friend. You'll know if you ever want to talk to them again. It is a it is a telling and revealing sport of character and I truly do love it.

59:14.70
Evan Schiller
Um, yep.

59:25.37
aaronmannes
It reminds me a lot of photography I think that's why I fell in love with photography as Well. There's a lot of parallels that coincide the 2 and I'm ah I'm a huge fan of Both. So I appreciate you being on I think we learned a lot I think it's a really interesting niche and um, ah yeah I look forward every time I see your posts. I Do make those mental bucket lists as well like I I want to play this whole for Sure. Of course.

59:48.97
Evan Schiller
Cool. Thank you guys. Thanks for having me on appreciate it. Good good way to spend and.

59:51.81
smacey
Awesome.