Becoming an All-In-One Photographer that gets Hired in Any Genre with Ian Jones Artwork

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The Photographer Mindset is a podcast specifically created for photographers, and those who believe their purpose is to create, inspire and develop into their full potential. The photographer mindset podcast was initiated to help creative individuals understand that their success depends on more than just skill and dedication. In this podcast we learn to develop a winning mindset based on attitude and out of the box thinking strategies so that we can grow our clients, brand recognition & confidence. We want to work smarter towards our goals, not harder.

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The Photographer Mindset

Becoming an All-In-One Photographer that gets Hired in Any Genre with Ian Jones

January 01, 2024 • Ian Jones • Episode 196

In this episode we welcome back Ian Jones (@iansjones), a tenured returning guest on the podcast. We explore various methods for attracting attention from companies to get hired as a photographer, regardless of the genre of photography you specialize in. Ian shares creative and controversial techniques to improve email subject lines, ensuring prospective clients are enticed to open them. We also discuss the importance of developing a quick workflow, from capturing the perfect shot to sharing it and leveraging it to generate business opportunities.

Check out Ian's website here: https://www.isjdesigns.com/

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Thanks for listening!
Go get shooting, go get editing, and stay focused.

@sethmacey
@mantis_photography
@thephotographermindset

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02:52.88
smacey
That's good. It's true. We met at the Hilton Sedona and Ian tax me says can I come to your house I was like let me just tidy up my place first.

02:56.30
Ian
Your room was cooler than mine though. Yeah.

03:04.20
Ian
Um, was like what's your address. It was funny.

03:06.45
smacey
Thirty thirty um but yeah man it was good meeting you I noticed about you you shoot like I already knew this about you but I got to watch it in the field you shoot everything you're kind of like your your eyes are on different planes. So like your right eye looks looks that way and your left eye looks that way and you're having like.

03:22.38
Ian
And.

03:26.18
smacey
50 different ideas at once and man Aaron the speed. This guy gets stuff out it I was like I'm just slow or ian super fast. 1 of the two I was like we shot that 15 minutes ago it's on his story. He's like I'm reaching out to the hiltons. The donuts want to see if they want to collaborate on I'm like dude like.

03:36.51
Ian
Um, but we would.

03:43.00
smacey
Wax. It's not even breakfast yet.

03:44.57
Ian
Yeah, they they didn't talk to me. They talked to me on like on Google but they didn't I don't there was I don't know who I wasn't able to get in contact with the social person but I posted it anyway.

03:48.11
aaronmannes
Are.

03:57.36
smacey
Um, bright.

04:01.64
Ian
But yeah, no I would I would just go back to my hotel room and I would just like sit and edit and post stuff I don't know what you were doing in your room making money.

04:09.98
smacey
Whining down I sit on photos. Maybe that's a bad thing like I sit on photos and I sit on videos and you get them at like a rocket ship has speed served you? well.

04:16.44
Ian
Yeah I I feel this I don't know I just feel this like necessity like necessity this necessity to post like instantly I don't know why.

04:25.39
aaronmannes
Um, necessity.

04:27.63
smacey
Right? and heads that ever served you well in the sense of I guess Speed a good is speed a factor for your performance. Yeah yeah, this guy won't stop talking about it.

04:32.69
Ian
Um, ah well that is that real that I've made that that real that I made that's about the hit 5000000 views I posted that well I posted that the second I made it I I mean I posted that at like eleven at night and I actually.

04:42.76
aaronmannes
Yeah, Miss Humble brack.

04:49.90
smacey
Um, okay.

04:52.57
Ian
Well I contemplated not posting it I was like this is kind of late and I was like yeah, whatever fuck it I'll just post it anyway and then it served me well woke up in the morning with my dopamine rush of notifications. Yeah, still a junkie. Well now I'm just going to.

05:04.19
smacey
Um, you're still junkie. Ah.

05:08.88
Ian
Chase that white rabbit all the time it don'll never happen I mean realistic I was I was saying about this the other day I've been on Instagram since I think two thousand and twelve twelve

05:10.85
aaronmannes
Um, yeah, five millions would be tough. That's a dragon.

05:13.90
smacey
Night.

05:22.83
aaronmannes
Um.

05:25.25
Ian
And it took that long to have something quote onquoco viral then now it's never gonna happen again I mean are we even going to be posting on Instagram when we're like 60 I mean I think about that sometimes.

05:31.44
smacey
No.

05:31.60
aaronmannes
It will in about 2031 that's when you're due.

05:41.33
smacey
Do you where does your thought process go.

05:41.44
aaronmannes
Yeah, but yeah, it'll be. It's a Facebook it'll be like that Facebook's for like my parents generally like it's an older social media instagram I I survey kids in school and kids don't even mention Instagram it's.

05:45.20
Ian
Yeah I'm like when when do we stop? what.

05:58.31
Ian
Are on the tech talk.

05:59.57
smacey
Um, it's got to be Youtube right.

06:00.87
aaronmannes
It's snapchat Youtube ah Tiktok Instagram's like a small percent of kids favorite social media thing. Yeah, it's awful.

06:05.50
Ian
I Absolutely hate snapchat. Well I mean if you're an adult male and you have snapchat sums up Sums up sums up. What.

06:14.25
smacey
Wow The bold statement.

06:16.61
aaronmannes
That's true deleting snapchat right now now I don't have it I Really don't have it.

06:24.70
Ian
Ah, no I have a ah like a bit moji thing on my like I message you don't mean a little thing. It looks like me and in order to edit it I had to download snapchat So I downloaded snapchat and it just like sends everybody your contacts a text. It's like bloop.

06:32.53
aaronmannes
Um.

06:39.70
aaronmannes
Yeah.

06:42.48
Ian
Ah, Ian Jones has no downloaded snapchat and I was like fuck and it's like why are you on snapchat. It's like I'm not I had to fucking so I like did what I had to do and then billieed it and but yeah, what do you snap and well yes well I'm just like if you want to send me a photo just send me a picture.

06:44.82
smacey
But.

06:51.16
aaronmannes
Um, yeah, it's a.

06:52.62
smacey
Damn damn.

06:59.13
aaronmannes
But does it disappear.

06:59.30
smacey
Fair enough where does your thought where's your thought process going. You're like oh am I gonna be doing this when I'm 60 Yeah, it's a good point am I gonna do this forever.

07:05.76
Ian
Yeah, what and snap I mean on Instagram I mean I know I mean probably probably still will be I mean is as long as I'm taking photos of stuff like where am I going to put them. You know do I print them out and put them in albums.

07:19.29
smacey
Um, right? sure.

07:24.59
Ian
For like my children to see have you think about that.

07:28.13
aaronmannes
Um, yeah.

07:30.51
smacey
Um, yeah, so you got to stop at some point.

07:32.40
Ian
I mean I hope I mean just just sit down with your kids and be like look at me look at my page just scroll or no because like not like I have physical photo albums of like.

07:36.57
smacey
Look at my grid are.

07:42.72
aaronmannes
There's a great. There's a great comedy bit. This guy is like if hey listen if you interrupt me 1 more time you're off if you interrupt me 1 more time you're off okay was I was saying there's.

07:51.53
Ian
My family would Horseruker. What. Or at least I'm looking at you.

07:58.61
smacey
A.

07:59.58
aaronmannes
There's a great comedy bit and you just start talking. How am I supposed to now go back to the great comedy bit. No I'm going to keep this in to show the world who you really are.

08:06.60
Ian
Well, you can edit it.

08:15.48
smacey
You get a tells your bit I don't know he's good. He's drinking water. Go.

08:17.54
aaronmannes
Seth can I tell my story. Okay, ah this guy just goes what if twenty years ago people printed photos like they curate their own Instagram they would be complete psychopaths. It's like. You met a girl at the bar and she's like can I show you some photos and she brings you to her room. She takes out 15 albums and she's like this is my face. This is my face. This is my face. This is a this is a face. This is my cat. This is my brunch. This is my face and it's just like it's just funny. It makes fun of.

08:44.41
smacey
Edit it.

08:53.28
aaronmannes
How much we post and if you actually printed them and and albums of a thousand selfies in a row. You'd be like time to a mental hospital. Yeah, it's a comedy bit listen it's it's just for Haas.

09:01.93
Ian
But well I mean if we were posting selfies. No I I I ah.

09:03.49
smacey
Um.

09:12.58
aaronmannes
So he he interrupts and then he shits on my bit.

09:14.37
Ian
I I know exactly what you're talking about I feel like I knew that's where you were going.

09:22.36
aaronmannes
Um, anywho.

09:24.11
smacey
Um, I like our first ten minutes with Ian just kind of get things moving. We never do these with you in the morning which is funny. Um, we're gonna have to get into some some valuable content soon. Um, but you know it's good to get. It's good.

09:28.57
aaronmannes
That is good.

09:33.43
Ian
Yeah, it's fine. Well you have the you have the question system.

09:39.29
smacey
Do have the questions. Actually we had a really good question was it 2 episodes ago Aaron from Rachel that I said I knew nothing about and I said you know what? a good friend Ian who's been on the show a bunch of times might be able to and I'm sure you will elaborate on this topic. And Aaron can you ah can you kind of paraphrase what the what the video question was.

10:03.40
aaronmannes
Yeah, um, she basically said or her question actually was niching down people say you know you should niche down and have one thing does that help business. She likes to shoot a lot of different things portraits weddings Products. Airbnbs Cabins ah travel photography. Whatever it may be does that make it more difficult to land business deals does it make it confusing that was basically the line of questioning.

10:32.16
smacey
And how do you? How do you make a business. How do you monetize as ah as a photographer doing everything when you don't want to pick one or 2 things and I said I know just the guy I mean like when we're out in the desert you're like dude I've shot engagement.

10:44.45
aaronmannes
Um.

10:47.70
smacey
Done engagement shoots I've done I do like food I do car washes and what would you know somebody was asking you that question or brought that topic up I mean where would you start.

11:01.15
Ian
I don't know it's I mean it's it's like even when you ah first asked me that or brought that up. It's like I still kind of think about it's like a hard thing to answer like the reason why I take photos of literally everything is just because. I like to take pictures and and of stuff. So I just like see something and I'm like oh that's cool I want to take a picture of that. Um, but I think like where start is it's it's like different because when I was doing street photography.

11:20.47
smacey
Um, right.

11:34.53
Ian
Like that's kind of where I initially fell in love with like photography and editing and stuff like that. So by doing street photography and doing that often I was building my account and kind of showing off that I could like take photos. So from.

11:50.52
smacey
Of anything.

11:53.35
Ian
There that started to grow my Instagram account but clients weren't like nobody would be like hey can I pay you to go take street photography so that was a niche that wasn't really it wasn't going to pay. In the long run. But what it did do is grew my account and then that allowed brand deals to come in. So I think doing that niche. You're not necessarily going to make money off the pictures but that your account's going to grow. Where like the brand deals and stuff come in I mean that's one ah hundred percent how I got tam runs um like attention but by doing that and taking pictures. You just take pictures of other stuff that like can make you money if that makes sense.

12:47.19
smacey
Okay, well true or false you have to niche down or you should to in order to have more success from your opinion 1 guy's opinion.

12:47.67
Ian
It's so it's a harder answer.

12:55.86
Ian
I I think if if you want to grow your account and be like a travel photographer and get paid off of your exposure and you want brand deals and stuff like that then I would I would say yeah you have the niche down and do 1 thing but I think if you want to. Actually make money taking photos ah of the doing photography I think you should showcase that you could take photos of whatever.

13:20.77
smacey
Right? And then how do you structure that on a more official page like a website. How do you? How do you get somebody who who lands on your page or who checks it out to kind of get who you are you know? is there a way or do you just how are you structuring that or.

13:34.30
Ian
I mean my like if you go to my website you're going to see food photography or like real estate photography and you're going to see like portraits and then like some street photography stuff in there. But you're. It's just kind of like ah a smorgasbord of of all the things that I've done that I'm like proud of like because there's like on my website. There's sort of like Jay Leno crystallia a lot of the food stuff I've done and then there's also um.

14:00.73
smacey
Um, right.

14:11.21
Ian
A couple portraits of people like ah like a family session and then ah the food stuff. So it's just like all kind of there and then.

14:18.46
smacey
So your method so your method of organizing because my point is is that you shoot everything and it could easily be chaotic but it looks very much curated and it makes sense and like people can understand who you are just by looking at your website or your your Instagram page.

14:35.85
Ian
Yeah, yeah.

14:38.21
smacey
And so are you saying that part of the reason that's so nicely curated is because you're just picking things that mean something to you is it. The color grade is it is it more than 1 thing I mean the question there is how are people despite everything you're shooting able to say I get what this guy. Is about.

14:59.79
Ian
I mean I mean I think all the stuff looks curated because I'm the photographer like I'm doing it like I'm seeing it I'm shooting I'm editing it so it. To a certain extent everything that I take a photo of is going to be essentially in my style so not necessarily. 1 thing is going to look different than the other I mean like if I do like real estate stuff. Those photos are look completely different than like like a street.

15:28.11
smacey
Right? So then if you're not posting real estate on your website or on your Instagram because you're not right? Typically how are you all right? great. So then how are you.

15:32.30
Ian
Shot or like food just because the way it needs to be shot and edited No I know I.

15:46.10
smacey
This this pertains to the topic we're talking about how are you managing to you know, be online on your website. Be a food photographer be a portrait photographer and then have multiple companies say yeah, come shoot our house is it just talking to everybody. Is it back To. We talked about where you post and tag everybody. How are those? How are you able to get those opportunities within those genres without marketing your ability to do so on your socials or your website because this is talks about shooting everything right.

16:21.78
Ian
Yeah I I well I got the real estate stuff because um, a client who has airbnbs follows me on Instagram and just Dm me was like hey would you be interested in shooting some airbnbs I have. And I was like sure so that's how I did that and then that's how I was able to take the photos and then throw them up on my website to be like well now I can do this and um I think I think I might have I think I made them.

16:48.47
smacey
Right.

16:55.71
Ian
Like a real estate real or something. Ah and I posted on my thing but I also like if if I were to do if I were do to do ah like a real estate job since I'm very social I post everything on Instagram I would put it like in my story that I was like hey I'm doing this at this you know.

17:03.63
smacey
A a.

17:13.12
smacey
Um, of course right.

17:15.45
Ian
Um, but I wouldn't necessarily post like a ah real estate you shot on my page but it definitely I mean they definitely go on my website I mean most of the stuff I've done or the obscure shoots. It's just because people have reached out to me but like hey would you be. Willing or interested to do this I Know you're a photographer and I like what you do would you do this or would you try this and I'm like yeah I will.

17:42.30
smacey
Okay, so then follow up question with that and I don't mean this an insulting way. Why are they reaching it to you. There's other local there's there's real estate photographers that only do that niche are you constantly communicating with them just casually.

17:54.50
Ian
Um.

18:00.62
smacey
You know, just talking through Dm. Are you genuinely interested in the content they're posting. You know how does that because I I doubt I could be wrong. But I doubt the very first message they're sending you is hey can you come do this for me without knowing anything really about you through. Online discussion or am I entirely wrong.

18:19.22
Ian
I I think it really just boils down to that person. The reason why they asked me is they like mom like my style in general like what they see on Instagram so they probably are just like my like what he does here. Maybe he'll do this so I'm sure that's how.

18:38.58
smacey
And have you had prior have you had prior to right right remind us how that came to be run it through how you going through a car wash The most random esoteric thing. How.

18:39.70
Ian
Like the ask would come like I mean that's a hundred percent how I got the car wash.

18:48.61
Ian
Um, um.

18:52.76
Ian
See.

18:58.28
smacey
You going through a car wash came to money in your bank account from start to finish as quickly as you can.

19:02.46
Ian
Drove to a car wash was inside of it pulled out my phone you know took a little story of going through the car wash because the car wash always look looks cool. You know like the lights and stuff. So I put that in my story and then found the brand of the car wash.

19:07.44
aaronmannes
Ah.

19:11.91
smacey
Yeah, yeah.

19:21.36
Ian
Put them in my story and I shrunk down their tags. So no one else can see only the brand could see it. They happen to see my story right from my story. They went to my profile went to my website and then within like 20 minutes there was a dm from them. Ask could be if the if I would be interested in contract work and then literally from there I hopped on a phone call like two days later figured up a contract and then it started to turn into money like all said and done. So.

19:43.33
smacey
Nice.

19:56.31
smacey
Um, right.

19:58.49
Ian
Over the course of maybe like a year that car wash trip of me putting in the story probably generated me about $18000 so it was totally worth it. So.

20:11.49
smacey
Um, Wow. Wow So moral the story right? Some moral of the story is what in your opinion. Just really.

20:15.31
Ian
Sometimes when you do stuff like that you catch a w Sometimes when you do something like that. It doesn't nothing happens.

20:25.66
Ian
Um, well the story is just like tag. Everybody you never know you know and you you literally never know like that that food reel I made the other day I fricking tagged carry gold butter in it.

20:29.30
smacey
Um, bright.

20:42.60
Ian
Like it's butter like what am I going to do but I mean the butter's good, but like what if they saw it they're like hey I'm going to send you a bunch of butter and I'll be buttered up.

20:42.36
aaronmannes
Um.

20:49.53
smacey
Now Do you think? do you think this advice let's call it pertains to people who are interested in shooting everything They don't care about being a travel influencer or doing that kind of stuff. They just want to make money with their camera.

20:49.71
aaronmannes
Um, butter dump.

21:04.95
smacey
They're interested in a lot of different things. Do you think this advice only pertains to people who are who are looking to be diverse and versatile or you know if you are the travel influencer thing you still would you still say hey tag everybody.

21:14.87
Ian
Well, if you're a travel influencer or you're trying to go that Route. It would be wise to tag everybody because if if you're if that's what you're doing already like it would make sense to tag everyone like the clothes on your back. The the vehicle you're driving the hotel you're staying at because all those brands could help you out could help your road to be a travel like a travel influencer you know like car Rentals Hotels. What not butter I mean I.

21:43.22
smacey
Right? Take the stick of butter on the plane with you smeared on your face I'm kidding luggaged you know airline? Yeah yeah, me.

21:47.00
aaronmannes
Um, I think that.

21:53.17
Ian
No I mean it's like it's very hard because like I don't know why I do what I do I don't know why I do the things that I do I Just do it like I've I've had a good track run with with brands and um, doing that. So I just.

21:59.80
aaronmannes
I Do I know what you do I think I do.

22:12.40
Ian
Oh wait I Just continue to do it Plus my brain doesn't like stop like marketing myself like no matter what I do I try to I don't know it's just like it's a very annoying for me.

22:20.91
aaronmannes
Well Seth you you described him as someone that's oh like I'm gonna shoot this I'm gonna shoot that I'm gonna shoot this I'm gonna shoot that constant constant ideas constant thinking I think there's there's there's probably more than two but there's 2 ways to approach getting paid in photography is one is you you just.

22:26.64
smacey
Yeah, yeah.

22:40.20
aaronmannes
Double down on something that worked say it's car washes now Ian can say like oh that worked how many car washes are in the state of ah Pennsylvania I'm going to That's what I'm going to do I'm going to just go from car wash to car wash and do this method and improve my skill my niche of car wash photography. And I want to make a career out of that replace car wash with portrait wedding photography sports photography like whatever it may be concert photography like that's your thing or you're and then you're getting you know 20 car wash gigs a year and that's your life and you're getting paid and you have a salary but I think for someone that's really interested in lots of things and their attention goes elsewhere that might not be fun that might not that might get old very quickly so he might have 1 or 2 car wash gigs a year but also 1 or two food.

23:25.77
smacey
A.

23:35.30
aaronmannes
Gigs 1 or 2 real estate and you kind of throw a lot of things at the wall and see what sticks and then you're able to do it so he's kind of like the handyman of of photography versus someone that like specializes in I only do plumbing versus a handyman that can come into your house and be like I do I can do anything.

23:50.51
smacey
I was laughing because I thought you meant plumbing photography I was like I just had a I'm not laughing at plumbers. That's an incredible like that's yeah I'm laughing I human plumbing photography. It's just butt cracks.

23:52.48
aaronmannes
Could do anything pretty good plumbing photography. Yeah no, it's but like if if you have a niche you have to really figure out that niche and put all the energy into that niche if if you like a lot of things.

23:55.60
Ian
Um, and that's what I follow to I don't um.

24:07.36
smacey
Yeah.

24:12.33
aaronmannes
You can't put all the energy into every single one and figure out how to dominate the field you have to kind of do a good job. Be able to prove that you can do ah maybe a B plus a minus job for everything and then when people know you we're through different things or. Hey you did this but I have Airbnbs would you be able to do that and you're Personable. It kind of spreads around and it probably keeps your attention a little bit more in the the photography space of like oh I Want to go Ju I Want to try that that'll be fun. It'll be new and exciting.

24:42.18
Ian
Um, I like when I was doing those car washes. It got to that point because they were like the same over and over and over like how many times can you make a car wash look different.

24:43.19
aaronmannes
Versus this is my fiftieth car wash of the year like I can't stand this.

24:55.20
aaronmannes
Um, yeah.

24:59.60
Ian
When there's like multiple, especially it's like if it's the same one but like going off what you said like if if someone were to ask be like hey would you be interested in this. Um, like I think about it and I'm like you know that would be fun to do like I'll try it. You know I'll see where where that goes and then if you do a good job now you have ah a client who likes the photos that you've you know took of their air Bnb. So now I have an air b and b client and then over here I have a food person.

25:17.19
smacey
Um, yeah.

25:34.48
Ian
Over here I have a family that I did you know ah like engagement photos for so now I have a different pool of people who use me for different things so it keeps it interesting I mean if if you were to just do 1 thing over and over and over and over. I mean you're going to be doing a plus job of that 1 thing for the rest of your life. But I don't know that may get boring sometimes.

26:02.53
aaronmannes
Yeah I think I think that's how my brain works too a little bit like I think it would get I think it would get tough. You know to just do the same thing.

26:03.40
smacey
Yeah I think.

26:09.40
Ian
Okay.

26:11.10
smacey
So then follow up question for people who are maybe listening and then who go to your page. They say oh well I dont this system works because you have 27000 followers you know what would you say to that person because you didn't at 1 point right.

26:22.95
Ian
No I mean I didn't I mean that's just I mean yeah I mean if you look and you see that there's 27000 there but there's definitely not 27000 people that actually pay attention to me and they're actually not like local like right near me.

26:40.67
smacey
Right.

26:40.69
aaronmannes
Um.

26:42.58
Ian
You know I mean some of those people are probably all across the country so they're not really going to help me at all. Um I feel like the big number only helps sadly with when your deal with like brands and stuff you know because a brand will look at your content. They're like oh I like his content. Oh. He's got a decent amount of followers. Sure we'll do something with him you know like so like I said Sally the the number is just like a like a status symbol for a brand.

27:02.40
smacey
Um, bright.

27:10.30
smacey
As opposed to creating content and visual media and giving it to the company for a set price right? and I think the other thing too is I You know I was just typing on my keyboard and I was pulling up your page. Um, for reference I Think yay.

27:15.82
Ian
Um, yeah.

27:23.18
Ian
Like Instagram hey your our website page. Oh.

27:27.25
smacey
Instagram page and you know we've already kind of said this. But I mean I land on your page I see awesome street portrait with a dog a motorcycle a camera in someone's hand a landscape of Sedona your Tacoma truck all within like 15 seconds so I feel like if you're wanting to. Be someone who shoots everything and can monetize shooting everything when people land on that page. You can't just have only engagement shoots I mean if I'm that car wash. Okay, she's she or he is great at engagement shoots right? whereas when I land on yours.

28:01.91
Ian
Yeah, yeah.

28:06.63
smacey
I'm confident you know as a customer that okay he can shoot everything like the odds are great that whatever he comes up with are are going to are going to fit the bill of what I want right.

28:22.90
Ian
Yeah, um, the that food real I did the other the other day just making a mistake. Um, someone made a comment that it kind of made me think they were They were just like joking. But um.

28:35.90
Ian
I don't know exactly what I said a word for word, but they're like're like oh I didn't subscribe to amazing food content or or or like they said something like oh a chef hacked this photographer's page or something just like making a joke being like. All this was this was great and I'm I am the content I feel like like I am the niche like my Instagram page is ran like my life. You know.

29:02.19
smacey
Um, to am that's it. That's a that may be my favorite 1 liner, you've ever said I am the niche like I am you said it earlier I am the photographer I post what I do on my website because I like it that's me.

29:11.78
Ian
Yeah, like I'm on the concept. Yeah I've always I've always ran everything I've done like with the photography my website and stuff is like I'm the on the personality. This is what I like to do and if you like it.

29:28.82
smacey
And that's to the point we've talked about a lot in like maybe the last 5 or 10 episodes Aaron is that everyone makes good content now you know making good content isn't enough. It's people are when they buy a print when they buy a preset when they buy your services. You know they're buying you. They're buying your personality.

29:29.37
Ian
That's awesome too.

29:45.45
aaronmannes
Yeah, yeah.

29:48.44
smacey
And it's been that way for a long time but more so than ever like everyone is making good stuff in every genre. Everything is so good. So.

29:51.99
Ian
I know.

29:55.57
aaronmannes
Yeah, and it's going to get. It's going to get easier and easier as technology gets better and better. Just think about like the iphone and like cinematic mode and like that's just going to get better and better and you know it's going to be more pleasing and pleasing for people to put out really nice stuff. Yeah.

30:07.60
Ian
So have you messed around with the that's I mean that's it's good. Yeah.

30:11.98
smacey
So then we're we're getting to a point then where being a good photographer. The scales are tipping from having the best stuff and it's going to be who has the best personality and who has the most unique personality and who's the most fun to be around or.

30:13.96
aaronmannes
It's cool.

30:28.85
smacey
And in in that sense I think I don't know if it could go as far as say is like let's get a head start on that now if you're listening like really focus on how you can be a personality I'm not seeing an influencer I think being a personality as a photographer is different from being an influencer but how why are people going to pick you despite.

30:46.48
Ian
Yeah, yeah.

30:48.91
smacey
Ah, thousands of other good people whose content is as good or better than yours.

30:53.23
Ian
Yeah, well I mean if you compare that to like actors. There's a lot of great actors out there and ah if if like a director is like making a movie and you have like five actors lined up to play 1 role. You're probably going to sit down. You're like well all these actors are amazing.

31:07.40
smacey
A.

31:09.86
Ian
Love everything they've did but that guy's kind of a dick to work with and he's a painly ass. Let's not have him around because he's going to be difficult. So I mean it makes sense that they would probably it could be the same thing like if people like you are're going to reach out to you and.

31:14.22
smacey
Um, right.

31:28.59
Ian
You know if you're the personality.

31:31.29
aaronmannes
But I mean you bring up a good point and it's the only method that's really worked for me in terms of product photography is is having the product or buying it putting together a good idea showing them.

31:33.82
smacey
A length.

31:42.60
Ian
Oh.

31:47.71
aaronmannes
You're capable with their product. So it shows that you're a fan shows that you already use it and creating a connection. Potentially that goes hey we could do other stuff like this for a reasonable price like that's really the blueprint. That's worked the best versus reaching out and being like look at my photography because. A lot of people like Seth saying have good photography I think it's more about the writing or the narrative or the idea or the just the concept that you can bring a company or the problem solving you can bring a company and say hey this car wash has 0 marketing I'm going to just bust out 10 photos and show them what I could do and what. Could be attracting or attracting customers to their their company and that I think goes a long way to kind of get that first step done a little sweat equity to show them like hey this is what I can do I'm not afraid to do it and it's not just 200 people a day saying can I do photography for you.

32:28.58
Ian
And here.

32:45.50
Ian
Yeah, why? Yeah well I I do kind of the same approach like that. Um like stuff I have in my office or things I buy or things I actually use and if I actually enjoy it.

32:45.15
aaronmannes
Because it's like no we have ah we have an iphone. We're good. You know like that's that's kind of the thought process I think between these people.

33:02.51
Ian
Like I'll check out that brand social or their website or stuff and if if I think I could crank out maybe some photos of that thing and I'll I'll try to reach out to them to just give them the stuff or just be like hey over here look at me, you know, like um.

33:21.69
Ian
Like these speakers I have in my office I like research them it was a long time ago I think they're eddifiers are at edifier. Um I took photos of that stuff in my office like you know I I normally do this is years ago when I was like building my office but now. Have a relationship with them and they've sent me I have their speakers in my office I have a subwulfer of theirs in my office. All of my Bluetooth speakers of my home are that brand. They've sent me numerous headphones. Its all sorts of stuff. Um, and. That just worked off me actually purchasing the first set of their speakers and then since I like them. You know they're in my office I just made some content with them and now I have a relationship with that brand. So I mean that's how I approach like. All brands mostly.

34:18.69
aaronmannes
There's also a no fear aspect to Ian that we've talked about many times but you're not afraid to get rejected or be like you know here I did these I did these photos and they're like no thanks man we got we have a marketing team in-house like we're good thanks that's cool cool good good work but we're good like.

34:19.63
smacey
A.

34:35.51
aaronmannes
You would be like all right cool. Ah this coffee cup looks cool. Let's let's take pictures of it. Yeah and like like like next next nacks next next and I think that's important to not get you know that sort of attitude where you don't get bogged down where you're like there. There are a million other photographers that are better than me.

34:35.57
smacey
Um.

34:39.81
Ian
Are are.

34:40.17
smacey
That's so saying.

34:55.28
aaronmannes
Everyone takes good pictures like no one's going to ever hire me and just kind of stop and like quit if it's something you really want to do you have to have thick skin I don't know if that's the right term but I guess maybe a little bit thick skin with like the rejections and just be like all right that check that one off the list. Let's move on. You know.

35:13.49
Ian
Yeah I mean I have like for 4 is ah like if if outside looking in if you're like all this guy just works with everybody catches w's all the time. That's not true at all like ah, there's a bunch of ls.

35:14.22
aaronmannes
And.

35:28.78
aaronmannes
From.

35:30.63
Ian
But of ls on my resume too I mean but no one really talks about like getting shut down or you know what? I mean obviously social media you post your wins all the time you know, no, one's going to be like man I got rejected from Xyz brand that sucked. You know what I mean. So. But yeah I mean there's so there's just so much stuff out there and your phone and camera like you have access to all that instantly quick like so if you get if you get a know you're like there's so much more.

35:57.74
aaronmannes
Yeah I Also like was was it the car wash you did was that local was that a place. Yeah, so.

36:06.19
Ian
Yeah, yeah, well it was a local car wash but they had multiple locations all around so I was going to like the ones in Pennsylvania I went to Maryland Ohio. All so all the big I went to like almost everyone that was in like a 3 hour drive yeah

36:29.35
aaronmannes
Right? So I consider that local and it started with your your town give or take and I think a lot of a lot of us jump right over that that part of life like our town has so many restaurants and businesses and car washes and. Laundromats and coffee shops and sandwich places and dogroommors you know like there are so many things that we access and use but we go straight to Um, yeah, Seth's wearing Patagonia straight to Patagonia and ask them if they need photography where it's like.

36:51.60
Ian
Um, yeah.

37:05.54
aaronmannes
They they probably have that pretty locked down right now maybe but they probably have it pretty locked down versus you know what? this is a place I use all the time I'm local I'm a customer and and back to my other point someone that uses the product or uses a business.

37:08.30
Ian
Um, yeah.

37:21.61
aaronmannes
There's that there's already a little connection like I like this person because they support what I'm doing and then you show them hey I'm local and I have this skill it can build upon things and then that guy has Airbnb's and that airbnb person has ah a dog collar. They want you to take a picture up with your with your cute pooch.

37:24.85
Ian
Oh.

37:41.45
aaronmannes
You know like things just kind of can snowball if you start local sometimes and take a look around and look around like what products you're using what businesses are you frequenting? You have a skill that's local that you can really hit up and I think that's a good point too. That. People often miss and start to just attack things that they see online or oh I I really like Toyota you know I'm going to I'm going to go after that. Okay, like that's cool for your portfolio. Yeah, you tried that we all have but it's cool for your portfolio but they're they're doing their thing you know so I think.

38:07.57
Ian
I Tried that.

38:13.86
Ian
I.

38:19.21
aaronmannes
The car wash to me is very interesting and very symbolic in terms of like that's a company that you know has a lot of fancy lights. A lot of cool things. A lot of splashing. It's like a fireworks show and probably marketing wasn't on the forefront of they're like we need amazing marketing to get people here.

38:28.40
Ian
Go.

38:38.56
aaronmannes
So there's a problem that you are solving as well and like and giving a solution to like Well that's that's really interesting marketing for something that we never even thought of.

38:47.54
Ian
Yeah I mean it's cool that because when I was doing that um couple couple of my friends were like what do you mean? you're shooting for a car wash I'm like I don't know I'm just doing it and then I started making reels and videos and it looks sick. But.

38:57.89
smacey
Are.

39:03.94
Ian
They were just like I would never I would never connect the 2 dots to to be like why does a car wash need this like awesome content and I was like I don't know but it like it doesn't need to look that sick. It was like some of those videos and realels that I was making I was like these are.

39:13.50
smacey
Um I was just gonna ask this.

39:22.11
Ian
Fucking Awesome dude and they're just for like a car wash and it's just like it's funny but like I don't I don't do that anymore for them because that just like they they just like stop doing it. You know what I mean but.

39:36.58
smacey
Um, ah.

39:39.51
Ian
I Don't know at the time it was just it was just fun and odd. It's like having a like a ah funeral home reach out to you be like hey we need some content I'm like all right no business doing this but I'll try I'll definitely try it.

39:43.75
aaronmannes
Um.

39:51.86
aaronmannes
Um, all right? Ah e eventss last week made a really? Ah, just an interesting point I think he took it from somewhere where for any niche you get 3 different shoots and you're quote unquote a pro like. If you get 3 different restaurants that you're doing food content for and you can show a repetitive skill not just a one one off or like I did I did a cool cheeseburger shot one time. Ah, but you can show different places different foods different things now you can say.

40:28.90
aaronmannes
Good to go So I I Imagine you have many of those little pockets where there's like I proved my worth here I proved my worth here I proved my worth here and it just allows people to come to you I Think as like I don't want to use the word handyman in like ah um. Ah, negative sense but like ah a jack-of-all trades which is often better than a master of one is the end of that quote. So.

40:53.93
Ian
Yeah, um, when we were getting those interviews when we were getting interviewed at Tamron at at Sedona the the 1 guys said I was ah because I he. What is it? The jack of all trades master of none but he said he said youre jack of all trades master at some which is better. He said that's a better way to say it than master of none as master of some sounds better than.

41:11.27
aaronmannes
But is often better than a master of 1

41:24.67
aaronmannes
Um.

41:27.54
aaronmannes
Yeah, well the full the full quote people just say the first half the full quote is Jack of all trades is a master of none which is often better than a master of one. That's the full quote. Yeah.

41:27.59
Ian
Master of none I guess I don't know I liked it.

41:41.83
Ian
I've never heard that never I've never heard that end part. We go scared. You mustn't know.

41:42.44
smacey
Got schooled today I didn't know it either.

41:46.39
aaronmannes
Gould schooled.

41:50.73
smacey
Well so does it ever enter your mind. Okay, let's use the let's continue with the car wash example why the hell does a car wash need an Instagram you know do you ever think of that or is it or is it.

41:58.60
Ian
In.

42:04.62
Ian
What.

42:06.24
aaronmannes
Or or good marketing.

42:07.82
smacey
In your mind is it. It doesn't matter I'm just going to do the best I can and make the coolest content I Can that's not my job sure.

42:11.85
Ian
Yeah I mean I yeah.

42:12.90
aaronmannes
Can I add to that was it for their social medias or was it for marketing internet Youtube like whatever was it was the what was the goal and deliverables.

42:24.70
Ian
So at the I mean I could like give you some ah insight on that particular car wash Anyway, um, their whole marketing at the time what they were starting to do was try to play off this like lifestyle like they were trying to give. Their car. Their particular car wash like a personality a lifestyle like you were cool if you went to this car wash over the other car wash I mean they if you go to their website. It was like all over like it was like ah they were trying to make a lifestyle and their marketing was good and.

42:49.70
smacey
Um, brave.

43:01.10
Ian
I think that's why it just kind of worked out how it did because I had went there at the time they were doing a shift in their marketing and they were like this guy has cool content. We like what he does let's see what he can do for us and then like I said I gave them a bunch of stuff. Um, but then. Over the course of like 2 years with inside the company they cut back on a lot of their marketing expense because they had already got their marketing where they wanted it to so they like were cutting a bunch of people off and that's when I got cut off with they're like we don't need that. Content like this anymore because we have it. We could just like use our phones you know what? I mean so whoever inside the company was doing their social and stuff anymore. They're just like. Do you do do do you know and they're already on like payroll.

43:43.98
smacey
Um, right.

43:52.44
aaronmannes
So when you when you are looking for potential clients is there a is there a tell in their Instagram or social media. Are you looking for like ooh like there's a weakness here. They're not that established in terms of following like I want to. I can improve their their Instagram let's say 30 posts and then like move on or are you looking for established companies that like already like does it does it matter or is there like a ooh that's this is a gold mine like I'm gonna attack this brand because like I'm going to improve this a lot versus. I'm gonna attack Patagonia there in literal Patagonia you know hiking like I'm in Connecticut I don't know what I'm going to do but I'm gonna try to attack this brand image like to me there's there's an obvious answer here.

44:46.10
Ian
Yeah I do that a lot with restaurants like especially restaurants I'm like interested in like actually going to eat their food you know? um, but also like I'll go to a ah restaurant's Instagram account to try to see photos of their food to see what it even looks like.

44:48.81
aaronmannes
Um.

44:55.10
aaronmannes
Um.

45:03.80
Ian
Maybe that'll help my buying decision and if I go if I go to a ah restaurant's Instagram page and they have like awesome content and their photos are sick. It doesn't make sense for me to try to poke them because they already have that unlocked you know, but if they're.

45:13.69
aaronmannes
Are.

45:19.99
Ian
If there are posts and photos of their food and it just looks terrible then it's it's a good poke but then that tells me 2 things. It tells me one. They don't have a food photographer just because they they don't they didn't think about it or 2 They don't want to spend the money on it. So.

45:26.40
aaronmannes
Yeah, yeah.

45:35.90
aaronmannes
Um, right? yeah.

45:38.95
Ian
That poke could either go left or right because 9 times out of 10 restaurants Instagram accounts are ran by like a manager that doesn't have time for it because the restaurant doesn't find the value in spending the money for like food photography and stuff so like it could always go both ways.

45:48.25
aaronmannes
Um.

45:55.59
smacey
How do you in what way, do you help them see the value or convince them. Do you have a like a case study like hey if you do XY and z or you let me do this this will happen for your business. You know how do you? How do you make them see the value.

45:57.85
Ian
Just depends.

46:10.44
Ian
I mean you could always do the I liked I like to do the like Mc Mcdonald's analogy if Mcdonald's posted photos of what their food actually looks like on their social or in their commercials like it wouldn't hit as much as it does is when they do like. You know, professional food shoots with their their food which at the end of the day is not even edible I don't think but it's like you're so you're selling a product and you want people to buy your product and digest it you want your food to look like.

46:35.54
smacey
Um.

46:48.35
aaronmannes
This is this is great now we have to cut to a midroll for Mcdonald's like you you just written this episode is sponsored.

46:49.90
Ian
As best as possible. So.

46:52.27
smacey
But but but.

46:53.76
Ian
Um, but like if if you're if I'm a chef at a restaurant and I make this beautiful dish and I look I look at our social media and whoever put put a photo of it made it look like dog shit. Be like well no wonder no one's coming in here to eat this. It looks like crap. So I mean that's kind of like your my approach to be like you you want your product to look as best as possible. You know, like if you're if you're on a Tuesday night and you're scrolling through your phone and you're like man I'm hungry I don't know what for.

47:13.20
aaronmannes
Um, yeah, yeah.

47:31.85
Ian
And just see like you're like oh dude, this burger looks sick. Where's that from I want it and then you go do it.

47:37.84
aaronmannes
It I mean it absolutely works like there's there's a restaurant right down the street Seth you actually have been there with me um bertil towerron good for you. Nice job? Um, but they will post. You know a photo of their special for the day and that does sometimes get me out of my seat.

47:43.73
smacey
Um, birch birchwood tavern what's it called BurHill nice

47:54.49
aaronmannes
And into the restaurant so like marketing and photography and it has to look good obviously and be described well is there and it brings another point I feel like you're not just a photographer. You're sort of a market analyst in terms of okay this restaurant is packed. Monday through Sunday like they might not need marketing photos aren't great, but they are absolutely full like their their prices are really high and it's absolutely full and the food's good. Maybe not the best attack I'll ask but I'm not going to be surprised if they're like no thank you versus.

48:19.95
Ian
And.

48:28.74
Ian
Yeah, yeah, there's a.

48:32.97
aaronmannes
A restaurant that the food's really good in its Friday dinner time and no one's here what the hell's going on like they need some help and it's not just about photography. It's about how can we? How can I look at their Instagram and say like hey like we need to market this a little bit better. You're not tagging anything in the Pittsburgh area like you're not tagging.

48:36.55
Ian
That.

48:52.43
aaronmannes
Pennsylvania Food Pittsburgh food like we we can. We can do some work here. You're looking for those like market sort of queues of like oh this this is ah this actually makes sense. This is a problem I can solve.

48:55.54
Ian
Yeah, yeah.

49:03.88
Ian
Yeah I hate when restaurants don't use local. They don't use their local hashtags like they'll post a photo of like spaghetti and meatballs and then it'll be like Hashtag pasta night like how is it helping you in your local area like nobody's scanning Hashtag Pasta night.

49:15.92
aaronmannes
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

49:23.43
Ian
I don't even know what I want pasta that night I'm gonna I'm I'm scanning Pittsburgh foodie you know see what's under that see what I want pasta yeah, go.

49:26.20
aaronmannes
Yeah, um.

49:29.55
smacey
Um, right, right? right.

49:32.65
aaronmannes
Yeah, it's got It's got to be direct. You're right.

49:37.20
smacey
Cool, let's move on ah to an interesting topic. Aaron's not sold on it was waiting for his facial reaction up now he cuted on what I'm talking about your little ah, your little email hack I thought was brilliant.

49:39.51
aaronmannes
Um, yeah.

49:47.53
aaronmannes
I'm not.

49:53.64
aaronmannes
Um, I thought it was manipulative and disgusting.

49:55.90
smacey
But the subject line.

49:55.51
Ian
I Ah when they little disgusting me.

49:59.81
smacey
Um, could you could you can you tell us so you left to comment on 1 Our Instagram reels about a little hack you like to use. Um, whether you use that all the time I don't know but you said hundred percent open rate which is bold statement.

50:13.73
Ian
Yeah, 9 eight. Well yeah, it's pretty bold. Okay, so so.

50:18.17
smacey
Um, can you tell us what that was and the the the mentality behind it and then Aaron can yell at you well explain it first.

50:22.36
Ian
So the mentality behind it listen I I hate I Hate Junk Mail I Hate spam mail. Okay, but this is where I came from I always I won't even open up emails if I see it's from like something I bought or like.

50:28.73
aaronmannes
Um, listen yeah.

50:30.94
smacey
Kind.

50:41.96
Ian
Online and now you're stuck in there like email marketing and I'm always just delete delete delete delete delete I bought these I bought these sheets maybe two years ago from this brand bedsheets. Yeah um I bought these bedsheets i.

50:45.60
aaronmannes
Um.

50:52.82
smacey
Bit bedsheets. Okay.

51:00.62
Ian
Getting some new betting or whatever and they send me emails all the time and I don't even open them and just delete them but they sent me an email and they did the REDot and I was like what had I opened it and I was like holy shit I was like I opened it. Because of that So I tried it a few times and it works I mean it's It's not It's yeah yeah.

51:21.95
aaronmannes
Um.

51:25.80
smacey
So to clarify you put you put RE in the subject line short for reply to and then you send that email. It's your first email and then with the idea that.

51:39.66
Ian
Yeah, sometimes.

51:44.69
smacey
Like what happened to you The recipient will say oh it's a reply email I must have I must have already been talking to this person and that they'll open it and read what you have to say and so you've instituted this and.

51:51.36
Ian
Yeah I mean the the few times that I've done it. It works. But you also have it's not just like a end. All be all, you have to word the email Appropriately you can't just be like hey you know like and but like you're begging for something like generally what I like to do because natime.

52:08.24
smacey
Right.

52:26.57
Ian
Usually the person who that is managing a brand's Instagram account is not the same person that's managing their marketing emails. there's there's 100% going to be a disconnect there. So with the email I like to say.

52:36.38
smacey
Um, right.

52:45.97
Ian
I was messaging somebody who has control of your page on social media and they met. They told me to email this address So whoever opens up that email is now like well this person already had some sort of contact with our company.

52:56.00
smacey
Um, right.

53:03.87
Ian
Got this email address Now he's reaching out to me here. So it's kind of taking a cold call and making it a little bit like a lukewarm approach into the brand. Yeah.

53:11.47
smacey
By putting RE in the subject line and so you've had a good success rate with people opening. Well I guess replying to that because how else would you know they opened it with replying to that.

53:24.87
Ian
Yeah, so.

53:29.59
smacey
Lukewarm Slash cold pitch right? and is there ever any I'm not suggesting everybody run out and do this? Um, right right.

53:30.38
Ian
Yeah, oh.

53:37.60
Ian
Yeah, please don't because stuff stuff like that's going to run its course. Yeah I mean like it'll get outplayed just like with anything else and that's something that like I've only tried a few times like it's hundred percent not what I do.

53:48.86
smacey
Right? right? right? So so the point in bringing this up I think is how you can be for me anyways is how you can be creative and clever with in this example with the goal being.

53:54.94
Ian
And.

54:05.71
smacey
How can I get someone just to open my email. How can I you know and to think about again, it goes back to our earlier discussion of I guess like that's being clever as a personality trait Aaron would disagree with this approach. But.

54:07.60
Ian
Well stop.

54:20.70
Ian
Um, yeah.

54:23.57
smacey
Maybe there's a debate here and we'll put this in the poll on Spotify you know is is it more important to get someone to open your email like is there any harm in putting that in a subject line.

54:35.60
Ian
I I think for doing it something that I tried because I saw so someone else do it to see how it worked for me. It was fine just to be like.

54:45.93
smacey
Um, right.

54:52.73
Ian
Just because it it interested me because it took me out of the it just kind of blew my mind that doing that.

55:00.68
smacey
The loop you're in of delete right? The loop. Ah it took you out of the loop that you were in of every time you saw that email address you just delete it and so and I'm also so so to the question I asked earlier How did it make.

55:08.78
Ian
Yeah, but them doing that made me open it successful. Yeah.

55:13.82
aaronmannes
Um.

55:18.23
smacey
You feel when you opened it. You realize I haven't sent them any emails like do you care? Do you care? Do you like oh like.

55:25.46
Ian
I Mean no personally me but but personally me because I'm like in like the marketing field and you know I have that mindset I was just blown away at how fucking smart that was that.

55:33.34
smacey
Um, right.

55:39.10
smacey
Right? So this is my point. So if you're reaching out right? So if you're reach if if you know you're reaching out to another marketing manager if you know your audience and Aaron this is Devil's advocate because you don't necessarily agree with this approach.

55:42.25
Ian
But I say it took me out of it I I I was like Wow that was so smart and I was like I have to try this.

55:56.24
smacey
And I'm not saying I agree with either one I'm just saying if you know you're reaching out to a marketing person like Ian are the odds going to be that they say that's fucking brilliant. This person is clever. That's smart I'm interested to hear what they have to say.

55:59.25
aaronmannes
Um.

56:12.23
smacey
They've differentiated themselves from every other email I've ever received or are they going to say devious. Don't want to work with him based on who you're sending the email to I personally would be like that's really clever.

56:30.87
Ian
I Mean it could go both ways.

56:32.76
aaronmannes
My floor is it my floor I'm just looking at my email because I get so much spam I mean this is not this is not a new this is not a new tactic so I think Ian's right that it it will be like eventually. Ah.

56:35.80
smacey
Um, it's your floor buddy.

56:47.80
smacey
I had never heard of that.

56:48.44
Ian
I.

56:50.82
aaronmannes
Ah I get I mean I've had my email address since 2000 and probably 2 like early. So at this point from buying stuff and email us the spam can be yucky. Ah but I've seen it many times and it does. It does catch your attention like is this something I have to look at because I am looking at subject lines because they're very clear when it's spam email versus someone. That's you know, just says hey in the subject line like that catches my attention more than a long thing like 30% off this is like this whole thing. Ah.

57:25.58
smacey
Um, right.

57:26.11
aaronmannes
Iin's cave caveat of he's talked to someone and he doesn't want the the lead to go cold because whenever someone in Dm says like hey email this person I do have a moment of like I've like oh that's good news like they read my thing and they're sending me along the way but part of me is like. And they're just sending me to the next person That's not going to know what this is about or yeah, whatever it may be so you know that's something and you could you could argue the RE means regarding like regarding.

57:48.99
smacey
Sending you to the email graveyard.

58:00.72
aaronmannes
The conversation I was having earlier with whomever I was having this conversation with and whomever this concerns like this is where we were fine. Ah in terms of ah, a brand and a company I guess my devil's advocate would be first impressions are important. And if you're a company and you stand for truth integrity honesty and being impeccable with your word your start your first line. Your first impression is I'm going to trick you to to open this. And someone might go like oh that got me and that that's cool. Someone might dig a little deeper and be like we never talked like he did the like returned or what's that even mean the re reply a reply. Maybe I don't know ah replied email.

58:41.61
smacey
Um, right.

58:51.39
Ian
Does that what to answer.

58:57.54
aaronmannes
Replying email I don't know um, but I feel like a part of someone might go like ah that was a that's a yuck move. That's an ick like let me look at their work that's fine. But I I don't know I don't know I think it just it ah it begs the question like what's Ian your brand is ian our brand is the photographer mindset if we're asking a company for the first time hey we want to work with you and the first move is a trick so they open the email. I think you run the risk of getting like ah oh those guys are sneaky all right? Well, that's that's I guess that's part of the the conversation and the question I think to I like I mean I I get it when you've already talked to someone and you're like I don't want this to get lost like I really want.

59:33.93
Ian
Oh yeah I Want to do it from your business. Okay.

59:41.38
Ian
No I mean it's.

59:50.20
aaronmannes
The next person to open up this email and see that there's been a conversation and see that there is work like I I get all that and I don't mind it as much because there has been a previous conversation. It's just been shifted over.

01:00:02.24
Ian
Yeah I mean a hundred percent like I said when I saw it blew my mind thought it was clever wanted to try it so I did but it's definitely not something I would exhaust now um, generally.

01:00:11.92
smacey
Bright.

01:00:12.19
aaronmannes
Yeah.

01:00:19.64
Ian
All of my subject lines are exactly the same when I reach out to a brand I do this for a few reasons. Um one I can go into my my Gmail and I can search the subject and then I'll see all of my emails that I've reached out to people so my subjects. I reach out to a brand has always been my username in all caps a space then an x and then the brand's name in all caps to make it look like my brand their brand collab though those are my subjects. Of pretty much 100 % of all my brand emails that I send out and then that allows me to go into Google and I could search I'll do e and s jones space x and they'll all populate so I can be okay, this is this this and this so I can keep track and not like lose lose a conversation.

01:01:05.60
aaronmannes
Um.

01:01:16.59
Ian
And sometimes I could take sometimes I could copy a paste the email and make it brand specific and kind of have a ah like a set email because I feel like if if you guys reach out to brands you kind of have a a basic Skeleton of what you want to say with all your links and stuff in there. So that's.

01:01:16.64
smacey
Um, great.

01:01:32.29
smacey
Um, a.

01:01:35.56
Ian
That's generally like what what I do a hundred percent

01:01:38.16
smacey
That's similar to the way I write emails on our podcast behalf as I write partnership opportunity their Brand X and then ours I like that because even it just.

01:01:47.62
Ian
Um, yeah, boom.

01:01:54.70
smacey
Paints the visualization of our 2 brands working together. It just already puts that in someone's mind like this you know I like that a lot.

01:02:02.21
Ian
Yeah, yeah.

01:02:08.36
aaronmannes
Ones that have worked for me nicely is again, especially when you have a narrative or an idea I I in as few words as can say it just says you know my name and I have a concept. I Really like and I have some proof of it attached so it kind of gives like an interesting clickbait like oh oh he already has an idea and he has proof of it I I do want to see it. So It's like a ah little teaser of what's coming.

01:02:44.71
Ian
Yeah, have you? um, speaking about like nefarious emails that get you to open them have you seen that? Ah, the scam where they send you at where it looks like a receipt that you've already purchased.

01:02:50.19
aaronmannes
Are.

01:02:59.23
aaronmannes
Um, yeah, yeah.

01:03:01.67
Ian
Um, something from like Mcafee or like pay hell um yeah I get this all the time. It's like it's like a receipt from Paypal and they're like thank you for sending your payment of six hundred and fifty dollars for an iphone 15 and and then they're like send you links to.

01:03:04.24
smacey
Um, yeah.

01:03:16.93
aaronmannes
Yeah, check it out. Yeah yeah from from Paypal with 2 l's at the end from like it's always like it's always the weirdest I just I'm always like who falls for these because.

01:03:20.78
Ian
To Dispute this purchase Call X Y Z those I from what. What it.

01:03:34.49
aaronmannes
It's like from paypal 6 nine seven seven seven a JK like at weirdo email dot com.

01:03:38.78
Ian
Yeah, um, at fucking Msn like no company doesn't use Gmail or or I have like ah like a company email. What's up. Yeah.

01:03:45.79
aaronmannes
Or their real email. Yeah yeah, the real email. It's like they have a pixelated logo at the bottom like Amazon that has like blown out pixels. Well oh yeah, absolutely.

01:03:48.87
smacey
Um, death. Um.

01:03:53.58
Ian
But the sad thing is people fall for that shit all the time every day it's why they continue to do it. 1 of the things I can competably say is I've never been scammed in my life but I it it's.

01:04:00.26
smacey
A.

01:04:08.65
smacey
Now you've done it.

01:04:12.99
aaronmannes
Now it's a challenge.

01:04:13.32
Ian
It's really hard to get me so well like whole gift card thing. You know, no please Jesus um no I I'll get an influx of ah emails from Instagram being like.

01:04:14.10
smacey
Well that that people got you The bedsheets got you.

01:04:18.44
aaronmannes
Everyone out there tried to scam Ian.

01:04:32.18
Ian
If you didn't try to change your password I'm like ah I hate those. There's always those always terrify me. Yeah.

01:04:33.40
aaronmannes
Yeah, yeah, those ones? yeah.

01:04:37.27
smacey
Heart stopper while we're on the subject of emails and we're talking about 2 episodes ago where people wrote in or videoed in previous guests are on the show. Um, maybe we can you can make this as succinct as possible. The other topic that we talked about was um.

01:04:55.90
smacey
When you know you've been chatting with the company and then it goes cold. It goes quiet how you deal with that. How many followups are you sending what frequency and at what point do you just say Apps I'm moving on.

01:05:07.14
Ian
I Mean that actually happened to me with um, a fish tank company. Um.

01:05:14.45
aaronmannes
That's the most Ian thing ever said on on the podcast.

01:05:16.89
Ian
No I Um I got I bought this awesome dress like this drawer and there's like a two- shelf drawer and that is it's like white and there's like neons side of it and it like looks awesome and um I was like I really want to put like a.

01:05:18.48
smacey
Oh my god.

01:05:35.90
Ian
Putting a fish tank on here would be cool. A little tiny fish tank and the aesthetic of everything else in my office I was like this fish tank needs to look beautiful like this has to be you know it has to be a gorgeous awesome fish tank with lights and it has to vibe. So I was looking at fish tanks for a while and I found this brand that makes a gorgeous fish tank and it it looked awesome. I was like this really would fit cool in here and obviously it was very expensive. Um, so I was like man I was like I really don't want a fish tank in here that bad. Because I think it was like four hundred and fifty bucks you know I was like but I was like I do know if I do get this fish tank I'm going to make some content with it I do know that I'm going to take photos of it I'm going to show it off and ah the fact that it's going to be in my office is like.

01:06:14.81
aaronmannes
Um.

01:06:32.45
Ian
You you should be excited that I wanted your fish tank in here. You know I reached I reached out to the brand had 2 or 3 emails. They were all in they were like oh yeah, like 100% like pick a color. Whatever whatever and I was like oh this is stoked like I'm all.

01:06:36.36
smacey
Right.

01:06:51.25
Ian
Like I'm stoked for this I'm like looking at fish like I'm like what fish am I going to put in here I'm looking at like crabs and like all this other stuff and I'm like excited for it and they never emailed me back and I was like I was like oh that sucks. So then I did 2 or 3 more pokes just like hey. Haven't heard from you like whatever you know and then I just I got nothing nothing nothing ever transpired to that and it sucked just because like I was like how that what.

01:07:21.68
aaronmannes
I I'm sorry I was I was ah I was I think just imagining your fish tank and the kinds of fish you could have but did they did they respond the first one did you have a conversation going or or okay, okay.

01:07:31.17
Ian
No I actually yeah I had a conversation the the first email I sent they actually directed me to the person who's in charge of making those decisions and so I went through that person then the the second person I actually talked to they even they were from Ohio to. So they even had conversations of me coming out there and seeing the facility and showing me how the fish tanks are made and then I just lost lost contact with them. They just um, didn't email me back so you never know what could have happened that person could have got fired or ah left the job and.

01:07:50.18
aaronmannes
Um, how wow.

01:07:59.67
smacey
Um, what kind of timeline are we looking at.

01:08:04.72
aaronmannes
Yeah.

01:08:09.12
Ian
I got lost in translation because I have I've had brands email me and my original form of contact left the company or got fired or or you know went off to different jobs and they were big I'm your new form of contact.

01:08:24.77
aaronmannes
Me.

01:08:26.95
smacey
So what was the timeline on that and what made you say this? one's done.

01:08:27.71
Ian
So you never know but stuff happens.

01:08:33.43
Ian
I Just think after because I I'm not going to be annoying and I'm not going to hassle or like or hound anybody so like.

01:08:40.80
smacey
Okay, what what constitutes his hounding. Let's like get nuanced like how many emails how many follow ups when 1 person's opinion.

01:08:49.83
Ian
Um, yeah I I think just I think for me hounding a brand is like instantly cold, emailing asking for something right? off the bat for free without. Trying to show value. We're out trying to have an idea like Aaron said like when I reached out to the fish tank company I told them who I was what I'm about I had links to all of my my website. My Instagram.

01:09:14.10
smacey
Um, if.

01:09:23.97
Ian
Also showed them what my office looked like and I was like this is where I want to put your fish tank I think it would look gorgeous here obviously complimented the company on the on the stuff that they do um, told them my ideas for stuff. And then I was like this is all laid out for you right here If you're Interested. You know, hit me back if not then then you're not., But yeah, it's it's more or less be like let's work together on something if you want to and.

01:09:49.44
smacey
Um, so I'm asking for a fish tank. But I'm not flat out asking for a fish tank.

01:09:57.64
aaronmannes
Yeah.

01:10:01.47
Ian
You're going to get x y z and I'm going to get x y z so we both feel as if we got something out of the partnership and I mean the fact that they were like local in Ohio was also cool too because I was like shit I'll go out there. Ah, go out there and take photos of stuff I don't care. But.

01:10:19.51
smacey
So how many weeks beyond that until things go cold and you say and how many follow ups till you're till you're you've called it.

01:10:29.92
Ian
I Think generally when you I I didn't hear back from them I was like I I usually give a I usually give ah like a week like an entire full week because I know I'll lose emails. It'll take like a week to response I Usually wait like a week and then I sent them another one I was like hey just touch them back up touch and base circling back. You know havent haven't heard from a little bit and if you don't and and still still if I don't hear anything back.

01:10:57.39
smacey
Yeah, yeah, put top your inbox. Yep.

01:10:57.91
aaronmannes
Um, put this at the top of your inbox.

01:11:06.57
Ian
I Will just be like well you know i' cut my losses from there. So I'm not I'm not gonna um I'm not going to send multiplely I'm not gonna multiple what's that.

01:11:10.82
smacey
So you're all about speed. You're about speed. That's the you know that's your thing like I mean we've talked about it. Aaron will go until they tell him? No aaron will go till they say no nope. Nope.

01:11:11.13
aaronmannes
Um, yeah.

01:11:21.90
aaronmannes
That's not that was an exaggeration but I do I I I like I like communication if they've already talked to me you know? Ah, but but I know I'm not doing it mueller more than one time a week. You know.

01:11:24.98
Ian
What? what.

01:11:29.26
smacey
Right.

01:11:35.54
smacey
Um, right.

01:11:35.54
Ian
Yeah I know.

01:11:37.66
aaronmannes
Like I'm not going to hound them it. It'll be on a Friday like hey just checking in and I'll I'll keep doing that for a while as a as a follow-up, you know, maybe you said you wanted to work and then now I don't hear from you I just don't I just want to know I just want to know if we're doing it or we're not because I have to plan my life.

01:11:44.75
smacey
Um.

01:11:49.77
Ian
Yeah, yeah.

01:11:55.96
aaronmannes
Not just on I'm not on call for you. You know and then eventually you cut it off and you move on.

01:11:56.95
Ian
So yeah, so and it's.

01:12:02.18
smacey
Um, I'm Gmail does the thing now when you've sent an email. It'll put it to the top of your inbox if they haven't replied and it says it it puts a little tag and it says follow up like suggesting you should follow up with an email and sometimes it's only three days after I've sent it I'm like damn that's quick.

01:12:07.68
Ian
Oh you'll nudge. But.

01:12:14.35
Ian
So yeah, so.

01:12:19.14
smacey
So I'm wondering what the you know the most optimal spacing is for a for an email follow up I'll ask Ai while you continue to talk five days

01:12:28.74
Ian
I'm I'm going to say maybe five days yeah because realistically like people's phones are on them like so quick like if if anybody texts.

01:12:32.18
aaronmannes
Um, yeah, give him a chance.

01:12:44.60
Ian
If you like text somebody you don't hear from them for like 3 hours the case sorry I was busy now you just didn't want to respond like that quickly. You know what I mean so I mean emails could are definitely could be the same way because an email is basically just a professional text.

01:13:00.49
smacey
Do you want to hear Ai's input 3 to 5 business days is generally recommended to wait a few business days before sending a follow up.

01:13:02.87
aaronmannes
Yeah.

01:13:03.10
Ian
You could sure. Okay.

01:13:07.57
aaronmannes
Yeah, makes sense.

01:13:14.38
smacey
So I was a recipient enough time to respond to the initial email blah blah blah blah blah blah but it was interesting that it popped out 3 to five business days after sourcing 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 eight nine different sources online.

01:13:25.76
aaronmannes
I mean what's tough is you know I email Seth he works at a company. He likes the idea but he's got to email Ian and make sure it's okay and then wait for Ian's email but it's not. It's not their number one priority or their only thing they're working on. So if Seth forgets that Ian supposed to write him back.

01:13:35.40
Ian
So.

01:13:45.18
aaronmannes
And then I write Seth back. He's got to still get back to Ian like there can be a lot of inner workings in a company I think it's tough I don't think a friendly reminder is is terrible I mean as ah as long as you you don't flip the switch and get angry that they didn't respond. But if you're just like hey this is I'm trying to help you out.

01:13:59.35
Ian
Yeah, yeah.

01:14:04.85
aaronmannes
Help you out help me help me help you like I'm just ah, just a reminder and and we've gotten that Seth many times where they're like oh sorry we've been so busy sorry we dropped the ball sorry this sorry that which all may be honest, but they're getting back to you and they're recognizing that it took a while.

01:14:22.57
Ian
We I feel like that all goes back to being um the personality and being a nice person and like being like wanting to be around someone because I mean there's no. And all be all of how to approach a brand like if if if I I don't know it's shown how you how you talk to them.

01:14:38.83
aaronmannes
Now.

01:14:47.12
smacey
Um, well I like talking about this with with all the different guests because I hope that if people are taking notes like you know like I do every week I try to find the common denominator between all the success stories I Think that's.

01:15:03.57
smacey
Should be 1 of the main premises behind this podcast is find the common denominators and success stories whether it's email subject lines or being the niche I am the niche. You know, finding those calm denominators and implementing them because. However, many 196 episodes. There's a good sample size here. It was a good sample size and there should be you know there should be a congruency and a confidence in strategies that have been spoken. Multiple times from different people across different genres because then that's inarguable that's objective data.

01:15:42.69
Ian
You know with it.

01:15:49.69
aaronmannes
Yeah, we're creating photography ai yeah, can I ask Ian ah just a kind of closing wrap up question. We want to keep going.

01:15:50.69
Ian
Data.

01:15:53.26
smacey
Um, that a I can just steal and pop out.

01:16:02.17
smacey
Um, no I'm just kidding. Go ahead.

01:16:07.43
aaronmannes
Ian we've been asking our guests some of this or this question in closing if you had to give your younger photographer self advice as you were starting out. What would you tell your younger photography photographer self about. Ah, field about the business and what advice would you give your mini ian.

01:16:33.74
Ian
I Think to start sooner like so I would That's what I would say I just say start. Do it sooner not that I feel like I started. Um.

01:16:42.50
aaronmannes
Did you drag your did you did you rush right? out of the gate or did you drag your feet for a while. Were you like toying with photography for years or is this just an age thing because I feel that too sometimes like I mean I started my mid late 30 s you know.

01:16:56.83
Ian
Now I.

01:16:59.15
aaronmannes
A lot of times I'm like oh I wonder if I started at 25 when Instagram first came out what would be you know.

01:17:06.38
Ian
Um, no like I I probably got well I've I've said this story like a ton of times. Um, one of my one of my roommates was taking photography in college and he like. Was trying to get me into it as well and I'm one of those type of people that if if someone is telling me I need to do something like oh you need to watch a show like you need to watch a show I Purposely won't like I It makes me not interested in it. Um, so that's kind of like what he was doing with photography.

01:17:25.32
aaronmannes
Um.

01:17:42.32
Ian
So when he wasn't home I was like taking his camera and sneakily trying to get into it because I didn't want him to know he was influencing me to take to take photos. Um, but I said I would I would tell my younger self to start sooner. Because I mean ah imagine if like imagine if you got into photography like 10 years before you actually got into photography like where would your skill set be currently plus if you got into the photography Instagram game.

01:18:05.78
aaronmannes
Um, yeah.

01:18:19.58
Ian
10 years earlier where would that account be now because I know the photos that I were posting on Instagram right away were like terrible. They were just like cell phone pictures of like your dog or. Like a cup of beer or like some they were just bad. You know what? I'm talking about so like imagine if if as soon as Instagram came out, you were posting like high quality professional Dslr images.

01:18:58.00
smacey
And so I think that well and so I think that point speaks to something larger because we can't do anything about that. We can't start.

01:18:58.14
Ian
Right out the gate like you you could potentially have like 5000000 followers on Instagram.

01:19:09.47
Ian
Obvious.

01:19:12.26
smacey
Photography sooner. We can't start running sooner. We can't start painting sooner. We can't start playing guitar sooner. But we can start that new thing now we can use that piece of advice we can get into video right away if we're toying with it. You know we can get into doing that seminar or that speech.

01:19:25.10
Ian
Um, yeah.

01:19:31.24
smacey
So I think there's there's a tangible piece of advice in that is don't wish you would start it sooner on something you know.

01:19:39.31
Ian
Yeah I mean I don't I don't wish I started sooner like I'm not like sad or like oh I wish I would do this sooner but I mean just to quickly answer the question I'd be like well maybe.

01:19:46.87
smacey
Okay, okay.

01:19:48.22
aaronmannes
Um, yeah.

01:19:56.85
Ian
Maybe I would start sooner but I'm not like mad I didn't.

01:19:59.88
smacey
Um, that's good point I'm glad to hear that.

01:20:01.82
aaronmannes
Yeah, great point. What I've learned is that you're sneak with your email tactics and stealing your roommate's camera behind his back. That's what I've learned today your your roommate's camera behind his back.

01:20:06.10
Ian
Um, yeah.

01:20:09.51
Ian
And and and to walk behind what back.

01:20:18.75
smacey
Kind of think of it I haven't been able to find my my new osmo since I saw Ian kind of and he's been posting about it and stuff so I don't know maybe.

01:20:20.75
aaronmannes
Taking it out.

01:20:24.27
Ian
Really I know I've been I mean I've been thinking about that since since that day I can't find 1 in New World listen

01:20:37.20
smacey
I've sold like 6 people on this damn dgi osmo dgi sponsored the show sponsor be or the show please.

01:20:42.67
Ian
Like ah I mean ever since you had it and I saw you use it I was like I really want that and I thought it was like really cool and since I got back from Arizona I'm like I want one like I want I want to get it and it's like.

01:20:49.32
smacey
Right.

01:21:02.15
Ian
Five Twenty for the base and then it goes up to like it was like six ninety nine for the yeah, the whole the whole shebang. The the big kit and if I am going to spend that amount of money on something I want it right away.

01:21:08.79
smacey
Creator kit. Yeah.

01:21:21.85
Ian
Because I and I need that that it's the rush of spending the money on something I want and I can have it instantly and it's not in any best buy near me. It's it's in no camera stores. It's not available for me. So.

01:21:28.80
aaronmannes
Name.

01:21:39.14
Ian
I have to order it either from dgi directly or buy it on Amazon and and wait and even on Amazon it's taking like like a week to two week shipping time. So the reason why I haven't bought it yet is because I have to order it. And I have to spend that much money and then not have anything right away and that bugs me and I haven't done it yet and that's why I'm not going to fucking get it until I can physically go to a best buy and be like here is my money and they could be like here's the product here's the thing.

01:22:06.50
smacey
Um.

01:22:13.50
aaronmannes
Um, the the thing give me the thing. It's interesting.

01:22:16.28
smacey
Um, right, fair enough man.

01:22:18.92
Ian
Um, yeah I I don't like to make big purchases and not be able to have said thing instantly. It's kind of like the same as like doing a big job and the the client gets all the stuff and then they're like oh well.

01:22:27.16
smacey
I learned something about you.

01:22:28.47
aaronmannes
It's interesting.

01:22:38.31
Ian
We'll write you a check in a few weeks I'm like well no, you already you got the thing now I want the thing just makes me feel like I did the thing for free. It's it's like those memes where um, the real like the wedding photographers. Where.

01:22:42.71
aaronmannes
Um.

01:22:45.62
aaronmannes
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:22:57.96
Ian
They'll get paid for doing the wedding like months in advance like even sometimes a year in advance like the client will pay the wedding photographer like here's the money and and so then when it comes time to actually do the wedding and they're doing all the work and.

01:23:07.38
aaronmannes
Um.

01:23:16.43
Ian
Editing and handing everything over it feels like they're doing it for free because they got paid so long ago you know.

01:23:17.84
aaronmannes
Yeah, you leave that you'll leave that last third to get paid man.

01:23:23.51
smacey
Wedding photographer.

01:23:23.71
Ian
We just I just thought thought it was funny made me laugh A little admit, um you can't believe how how much I quoted. Um.

01:23:28.79
smacey
Well body. You're a funny guy.

01:23:42.81
Ian
Harry Potter when I got back I was like saying it alone in my house ever be like alone for so long and you don't talk and you say something so you make sure your voice still works. But.

01:23:45.90
smacey
Yeah.

01:23:52.87
aaronmannes
Are these more inside jokes about Sedona.

01:23:54.50
smacey
Know Ian and I love the Harry Potter Meme not me not am I in a ya and we were just like we're so.

01:24:02.52
Ian
High overy himself and then um I mean it was fate when I was making that real and that audio was available I was like that's and we're just doing it. You know I'm talking about.

01:24:02.65
aaronmannes
Um, if.

01:24:16.41
smacey
Um, yeah, he put that audio for his real. It has no relatives has no relative context for what he posts. It's like a landscape in Sedona he stabs himself on a cactus by accident not me not a minor ya.

01:24:18.60
Ian
No.

01:24:27.98
aaronmannes
Oh yeah.

01:24:32.24
smacey
I Don't know sleep deprivation does funny things.

01:24:32.56
Ian
Um, um, yeah, we were tired I mean I was tired. They ran us like they kept a pretty tight schedule. Oh yeah, for sure. No I mean like it was very um.

01:24:33.55
aaronmannes
Yeah.

01:24:41.15
smacey
It was an awesome vento.

01:24:48.38
Ian
Like we're doing this. We're doing this. We're doing this now we're doing this not a lot of downtime so it like went pretty quick. But.

01:24:49.48
smacey
Yeah, yeah, know it was. It was really cool, really well organized. It's tamaron definitely takes care of their creators and that's why you know they sponsor this show.

01:24:59.14
Ian
Um, that um, um, that that night with going about at midnight up at four thirty was was a day.

01:25:10.28
smacey
Um, yeah, iin and I werere we're in Sedona going down and you know hiking some some rock ledges and we're like oh it's probably pretty far if you look down like we're sharing one headlamp and the sun rises and then our way back. We're like.

01:25:19.97
Ian
I know I was the only one that had a headlamp.

01:25:26.12
smacey
That's like a death fall.

01:25:26.66
aaronmannes
Cheese.

01:25:27.63
Ian
I Know we were. We were more cautious and careful when we could see the danger versus when it was dark when it was dark. We were just walking well.

01:25:32.50
aaronmannes
Yeah.

01:25:39.36
aaronmannes
It's probably safer when you're not concentrating on the fear just concentrating where to go. Ah.

01:25:41.77
smacey
Probably.

01:25:44.53
Ian
True I mean if we if we were to fall plummet to our death. We would have just Rag doled and I feel like they Um, yeah, you would have been stiff. It's like how what do they say? if um, you.

01:25:47.52
smacey
You and have been stiffened up.

01:25:54.00
smacey
And car crashed.

01:25:54.28
aaronmannes
It would be scary falling without light and not knowing am I going to hit soon or in 20 minutes like outer space.

01:26:00.33
Ian
Well well no they say um if you do quote me if I'm wrong, but they said what? yeah, it's It's why the drunk driver usually.

01:26:07.00
smacey
I Know what you're going to say you the if you're in a car accident. Yeah, like survives because they're so limp. Yeah, or when you're asleep in a car because you don't tense up.

01:26:18.33
Ian
Is in betters. Yeah, they just you know? Yeah, you don't tense up.

01:26:19.90
aaronmannes
They're loose bull.

01:26:25.38
smacey
Sort of things Lucy Goosey what a way to end to show what a way to end a show if you're going to be in a car I try and be asleep.

01:26:28.49
aaronmannes
On that note she since? yeah, don't do that.

01:26:31.90
Ian
Or just don't don't I mean you don't drink a dive and don't do that. Oh Im still guilty of that. Yeah.

01:26:38.63
smacey
Yeah, don't do that and don't text and drive. Um always a pleasure having you buddy and you got to stop? Um, thanks again for coming on sharing your insight always a pleasure having you man I'm glad you're over your Covid sickness that was nasty. But.

01:26:44.92
aaronmannes
So.

01:26:48.30
Ian
You.

01:26:55.98
smacey
You know you're looking good. You're looking dapper and well until next time then.

01:26:56.65
Ian
Yeah, that was that was that was stupid.

01:27:03.57
aaronmannes
Take care.

01:27:05.43
Ian
Oneka. Okay.