The Pressures Creators Face & Relationship Building vs. Networking with Dusty Cressey

In this episode, we are delighted to host Dusty Cressey (@dusty.cressey), a Canadian freelance photographer, videographer, and creative director, known for his captivating work in the travel and adventure niche. 

Topics of Discussion:

• The Pressures Creators Face
• Visual Storyboarding and Narrative Crafting
• Aligning Your Creative Content with Your True Self
• Longevity as a Creator in a Dynamic Industry
• Networking vs. Relationship Building: Nurturing Genuine Connections
• The Journey of Self-Discovery: Figuring Out Who You Are as an Artist
  
  

Subscribe to TPM's Youtube page and watch full length episodes: https://www.youtube.com/thephotographermindset/

Thanks to Tamron Americas for being our lead sponsor this episode! Right now they have their MARCH MEGA SALE happening where you can save up to $200 USD and $300 CAD on select lenses for your mirrorless camera. Sale on now until April 7th, 2024! Visit Tamron's website to check out their lineup of lenses https://tamron-americas.com/ or head to your nearest photo retailer to save on your next lens today!

If you're listening on Spotify you can now interact with us directly by typing your thoughts, opinions, or questions in the Q & A section. We read them and publish them. It's a great way to make these episodes more of a two way conversation so be sure to add your two cents after each episode!

Make a donation via PayPal for any amount you feel is equal to the value you receive from our podcast episodes! Donations help with the fees related to hosting the show:
https://paypal.me/podcasttpm?country.x=CA&locale.x=en_US

Thanks for listening!
Go get shooting, go get editing, and stay focused.

@sethmacey
@mantis_photography
@thephotographermindset

Transcript

INTRO:

00:00.00
aaronmannes
Yeah.

00:00.12
smacey
Hello and welcome back to another episode of the photographer mindset podcast I'm your co-host Seth Macey and congratulations buddy on selling out the Alaska 2024 retreat it's going to be so much fun. Sorry if you were interested. Um, but it is officially sold out.

00:04.59
aaronmannes
And I'm your cohost Aaron Mannes

00:18.62
smacey
And I guess we'll have to get working on 2025 s that's not right.

00:20.90
aaronmannes
Yeah, for sure. Maybe maybe sneak one in in 2024 another one who knows. But yeah I'm excited I think it's a good group and man we're going to Alaska.

00:25.67
smacey
You know.

00:32.38
smacey
It's gonna be really really, really cool and as always if you're liking these episodes before we introduce our guests today feel free to leave a rating and review on Spotify and Apple Podcasts cost-free effective way to support the show and it means the world to us takes a couple seconds and it's tremendous impact. For us today we had on dusty cressy for the second time we caught up with him after what about a year see where he's at um I think one of the cool things to hear him talk about was kind of changing his content to more accurately depict who he.

00:51.60
aaronmannes
Um, yeah.

01:02.59
smacey
Is currently or who he has become over the last little while kind of making the congruence between what his content that he's putting out to the world is and who he actually is which I had mad respect for.

01:15.26
aaronmannes
Yeah, he's well spokenken a lot of good ideas. A lot of good thoughts I like how his I like his approach to creativity and content creation and the business side the passion side um staying diverse in terms of his likes and what he pursues it just seems very well-rounded. Ah. And pretty happy I would say.

01:33.87
smacey
I would say so well with that. Let's hear we're from the sponsoring get into today's episode.

INTERVIEW:

01:41.62
smacey
What have you been up to dusty? It's a pleasure to have you back on the show. It's been what about a year maybe over a year?

01:44.00
aaronmannes
I Forgotten her.

01:45.35
Dusty
Um, yeah.

01:52.92
Dusty
Yeah I think it's almost over a year now it's honestly kind of crazy I've been all over the place and doing quite a variety of stuff so I don't really have a good way to explain it but kind of doing the same thing as last time but doing a lot more and trying to travel more and just do things I like that's always the motto of what I'm doing so. Little bit of freelance a little bit of personal stuff and then also some social stuff.

02:14.83
smacey
Um, yeah, and just try I guess it. It's all it's doing the same thing but scaling right? and you said before we and started recording. It's interesting to just follow the people because it is a Thai community here right? Follow What everybody's doing and how they're leveling up.

02:26.67
Dusty
Absolutely yeah, I've been in doing this now full time like around 3 years and then in the scene for like 7 years so some of the people have like dwindled off but like seeing where some of the people have made it to and even just like in my small circle some like 3 or 4 of us have made it full-time. So it's really cool and then. Watching people like you guys who have met along the way. It's just definitely is a wild thing especially to see like you they start in one point and then they might end up somewhere completely different but it's really cool to be able to really fall along not just like on the sidelines with social you see so much of the journey.

02:58.00
smacey
Yeah, and let me how are you following along and I mean what does following along do for you is inspire you are You are you somebody who gets like excited when other people are winning. Are you do get hint hints of jealousy. Do you You know.

03:08.23
Dusty
Yeah, well I mean I think that I'm quite selective on that front. So like I guess like you guys that we've had a like connection in terms of this space. We both both maybe added some sort of value to each other so you guys would be I mean we aren't best friends likely.

03:24.26
smacey
Um, right.

03:27.87
Dusty
Um, maybe regard me as that but I don't think you I didn't meet it in that way I realized after that it. But you know you you've got like these different tiers of people that you meet kind of along the way you have like your right eye people and then those people obviously are cheering on and then you meet people like your guys selves that obviously you're rooting for to win like.

03:28.41
aaronmannes
I go.

03:28.87
smacey
Um, we're not um, right right? skin right? Of course.

03:47.69
Dusty
We've had some great interactions. We keep in touch so like for me I Love seeing people winning in what they love and doing the stuff that they love and beyond that obviously you have like the superstars in the space which maybe Sparks jealousy but I always try to turn that into more of a ah drive thing and.

04:01.21
smacey
Um, yeah.

04:02.83
Dusty
Just like learn from those those experiences that you're seeing through others.

04:05.64
smacey
Um, yeah I think it's important to remember that I think we've said this bunch of times on the show. It's enough cake for everyone right? I mean you can get into scarcity brain mode where if somebody's winning I'm losing or there's less piece of the pie like there's less opportunity for me now.

04:11.75
Dusty
E.

04:19.20
smacey
But you know I'm really somebody who thinks that it's end. It's an endless pie. It's an endless cake. There's always new companies. There's always new ideas. There's always new technology to leverage. There's always new networking connections to make I'd I'd be curious to to see how many people answer honestly whether they think that pie is infinite or not Aaron. What do you think. Um, that.

04:39.64
aaronmannes
I mean infinite I don't know but I think there's plenty of room to find your your own little like creative niche. Um, what you're good at maybe it's telling stories on Instagram maybe it's. Ah, video for Youtube. Maybe it's you're great at stop motion animation like whatever it is. You know you find your thing and find a little space for your your setup and and show people what you got you know I think I think it's there surfing.

05:03.26
smacey
Dustsy. What are you good? At yeah, if you're answering for yourself. Someone said what? um like if I'm just asking you. What are you good at in your opinion own self-reflection like what are like what makes you.

05:06.37
Dusty
What am I good at ah.

05:16.72
smacey
Do well in this space.

05:20.40
Dusty
Honestly I think that I'm a like slightly above average creator like I've gotten this far to be professional. But I think I'm good at chasing the things that I like and finding ways to do that like I've done such a variety of stuff but like the overarching like push behind all of that is like just. Being genuinely inspired and actually sticking to that. So I think that's like something that I feel like I feel like a lot of people get get as stray on and like not actually following their interest and where their skillset is at the time or their interest at the time. So. I Could so go and say oh I'm a good photographer and all of these other things. But I think like it's actually outside of the creative skill sets for myself and like I guess consistency in that mindset.

06:01.69
smacey
Um, right sorry if I'm hearing you correctly you saying you're not maybe necessarily the best photographer technically but maybe your competitive advantage is you know what you like and you know it, You know what? you know very well like you're very self-aware in that sense and and what you want to pursue.

06:13.96
Dusty
Yeah, absolutely I think like creativity stuff aside is just like just general life drive is like pursuing those things and being able to to kind of acknowledge where my passion lies at the moment and like continue going in those directions. Like adapting and actually like seeing at the whole picture and so like right now working as a full-time freelancer and a creative is like using my skill set that I have to continue to pursue the stuff that I like so it's a very odd answer I imagine but I think that's like where with a lot of self-reflection is like that's what's driving up.

06:45.27
smacey
Um, yeah, and so like what's it. What's a day to day look like you look like for you now today as a freelancer is it a lot of are you at a place where you can.

06:49.17
Dusty
Us. Yeah.

07:00.17
smacey
Put your feet up a bit and just have repeat clients. Is it still going out and finding work is it. You know what are you doing to push the creative edge for yourself personally, even if that's not even doesn't even involve money. Maybe it's certain content. You have a passion for for creating on Instagram that doesn't pay any bills I mean what are how are you pushing that that edge because you know. The people we have on the show yourself included for the most part are are always trying to find the next level right? and I'm curious when people come on what what the method is for finding that next level maybe even outside of photography.

07:24.39
Dusty
Me.

07:32.47
Dusty
Yeah I think this is a huge thing that I've been thinking a lot about lately I definitely have had like the most successful year last year of like financially and that allows like just some lifestyle stress alleviation which is really nice but I still don't feel like they're. Has alleviated all those stress that creatives have in general of like trying to push the ah to the next level in that aspect like I've been a wildlife outdoor travel type photographer for a long time and I feel like my niche kind of that's what it's been built into on Instagram for example, using just that.

08:01.30
smacey
A.

08:10.21
Dusty
Like small portion of being a creative and now I'm feeling like that's not really who I am as much as I Love all of those things that I'm creating about like I'm trying to figure out what I want to do on social now. Even though I've found somewhat of a success in terms of being a creative and making money and stuff like that like now I'm finding myself. Wondering what I'm doing on social and like's now I went through a really good growth phase and that was great doing those things but now it's like now I've had the growth and it's like maybe this isn't exactly what I want to do and like I see myself wanted to build more of that personality and personal brand side of things. But then um, yeah so I'll just finish this thought Well I have it there. But.

08:40.35
smacey
Bright.

08:47.86
Dusty
Ah, and then on that same point. It's like I Still don't have that like stress-free freelance Lifestyle where I have like a bunch of return clients I definitely or in terms of recurring like month-to-month stuff. But I do have a really good client base where I built some good relationships up as well as like good relationship.

08:58.38
smacey
A.

09:06.74
Dusty
With other creators in the space that do seem to like be bringing me like work on a consistent basis like over the last couple of years. Um, but I definitely am still feeling all those same kind of stresses. Well I might be able to have a little bit more relaxation I still am feeling a lot of those same things. Ah. As I was in the beginning but just in a different way.

09:28.00
smacey
Yeah, and I mean what to elaborate a bit on that. What are some of the stresses you feel that other creatives face and that you face like what's typical in that sense you said there's a lot of pressure that's been alleviated financially having a good year last year. What still remains um that you're trying to maybe combat or. Work to and I don't want to say eliminate but kind of accept and and grow with.

09:52.66
Dusty
Yeah to figure out I Guess yeah I think one of the big things I like I see amongst all of us is like just figuring out who you are as an artist and like which is such a fluid thing that's changing constantly I think that's probably the most relatable thing of anybody that's. Especially people that have done it like to make a living from you start having more pressure because you are doing things for clients and for other people or chasing social trends that maybe push you in a direction that isn't who you are necessarily um, some of the other things would be too is like just longevity I come from a very like. More entrepreneurial perspective on a lot of creative stuff and so I think looking at this overarching thing while I have a great lifestyle and I Love what I'm doing I'm just trying to figure out what that looks like when I start or decide to have kids or. When I want to retire and like how what I'm doing now is actually building into that and I think that may not be as relatable to somebody that's starting out. But I think it's or they haven't thought about that as much but I think that's something that is actually behind the scenes of every creative because especially if you don't have like. Ah, big agency where you can just have a turn keyy and pass it over Inuffk Dad especially like solar newer type creatives. That's probably the other biggest one that I am facing in my own place right now with my business.

11:17.60
smacey
Um, yeah, that's interesting I've I've actually had that thought pop in a couple times I mean what does this look like when I'm 30 years older right? am I and I think it goes back to again what we talk about I'm more than a photographer like we we got to be entrepreneurial. You got to have well you don't have to.

11:24.66
Dusty
Yeah. E.

11:34.68
smacey
But I mean it's worthwhile to you know, have ah have a teaching business of photography or a podcast or I don't know something that that you're able to kind of switch lanes is that a fair maybe fair term. Um, what does it look like for you when you think about that.

11:50.75
Dusty
Yeah, okay.

11:54.57
smacey
Like where are your thoughts.

11:57.35
Dusty
That's what this whole this whole growing phase or like self-introspection thing that I was kind of alluding to is like I'm trying to figure that out currently. But I think that.

12:03.19
smacey
A.

12:08.20
Dusty
Doesn't even maybe have to do with photography I think that or Creative. It'll always be a part of my life and I don't think I want to leave that business model. But I think I want to build in like extracurricular industry stuff whether it's like a new I'm not that there yet I'm just like going through these paces but it's like. Ah, do definitely like the the idea of having a business outside of this whether that's like a legitimate product launch. That's not to do with creative whether it's and I don't want to go into too much detail on that but something I'll not along those lines or even like starting copyrighted copywriting agency or whatever that looks like is those are just like some examples. But. Something that's completely separate so that you have a little bit more depth um of Market. You know like I don't know how to go much further into that but I see myself possibly starting or building into other industries just because I Love what I'm doing and then possibly in the future if I can separate. Doing creative for fun and for work and not have to do it for work as much and just have like a personal brand and be a photographer and shoot birds and little things like that which I love to and you know and have fun doing that I think that would be really cool as well.

13:13.90
aaronmannes
So with that with that statement with that statement I'm curious everyone everyone talks about turning your passions into money. There's the risk of the passion sort of fleeting so is is that something you experience with.

13:14.44
smacey
Um, yeah, remind go ahead Erin sorry.

13:31.90
aaronmannes
You're obviously passionate about it. You chase things you're climbing things you're you're fine in things. That's your passion Now, you're you're kind of stuck to doing client work so that you can survive financially and and pay for things and your your basic needs all that stuff so that transition have you felt that and what's that feel like.. How do you get out of that funk all the questions.

13:52.10
Dusty
Yeah I guess I kind of maybe like pointed that conversation the wrong direction because I don't necessarily feel like I've lost that passion I Still love creating I Truthfully don't love having somebody else tell me what to do just in general. Which I feel like most people can relate to but probably at different levels but I like shooting creative stuff. But I love having the control and like the actual creative direction. So like some things definitely suck that ah like creative inspiration out of me which I really really try hard not to put myself in those projects. But sometimes things come along and like just really make sense financially or just career wise building relationships. Um I Think on that point of like how to get away from that is like picking a part of the industry or and a niche which I don't also love niche your downs yourself down too much but also. Putting yourself in a situation of where you're gonna be able to have that longevity like so for myself like I obviously have a passion for the outdoors and for wildlife and and all those things that are just in that outdoor photography niche. However I've been able to Combine. And most of the projects I do to like kind of fit within that it doesn't have to be directly related but like I was just in the yukon on an auto project and we were shooting the northern lights in Landscapes and incorporating another product into those scenes that we wanted to and we did all the creative direction on that. So.

15:22.53
Dusty
Stuff like that is like allowing you to kind of be adaptable but also still stay within your niche whereas like you see so often like wedding photography can be a great business but I feel like there's so many wedding photographers out there. Um not to be a guy calling that industry help. But I feel like there's so many that just see it. Pick up a camera then they're like oh this could be lucrative and then they go into that and they realize after they did 30 weddings in like four months that it's really just drained them and it's not actually worth the the money and they're not passionate about that type of photography too. So um, yeah, that's a big one I think.

15:52.87
aaronmannes
Um, yeah, good answer.

15:56.13
smacey
Um, yeah, it reminds me just a backedal a bit when we were talking about longevity I think it's important to not get your identity too wrapped up in I am a photographer like that's who I am to reference our our guy again Aaron Goggins you know he said you know. Doctor tells me or I'm I'm physically incapable of running anymore I'll bike if I can't bike anymore because whatever I'll swim or I'll do something else or I'll switch lanes I think he uses the example of imagine being a vegan and you get some like kind of food allergy that you can't sustain your. Your body anymore by eating plant-based diet and you have to eat meat like it would rock your world. So I think it's it just made me think about kind of not being so attached to a particular identity because if it's taken away from you. You're kind of just like could get crushed so being able to switch lanes kind of like you mentioned.

16:48.92
Dusty
Me.

16:52.72
smacey
I'll start a copywriting business. Maybe I won't be ah out in the Bush forever you know lying prone photographing animals when I'm 75 but I can do this other thing that I'm still wickedly passionate about right? So just kind of made me think of that.

17:04.38
Dusty
Yeah I definitely agree along those lines of just like being adaptable and willing willing to change I camera like I don't know or exactly one on this. But I think that point that you said is pretty much hit the nail in the head of. Not like especially socially wise and and pushing like a photography career into that you obviously want to be an expert at something but it doesn't mean that you can't adapt or incorporate other things into like that personality. For example, myself, especially right now like noting on that other conversation with social pressures is like i. Love skiing and travel and those things probably more than photography. But now I'm a photographer on Instagram so I felt that pressure even though it's probably not a wordly felt I can probably adapt with like just because I've been on there and doing that so long I feel like I can't just adapt and like start.

17:56.58
smacey
Right? Well this just made me think of a question that I'll pitch to both to you if I told you you could be like the most insanely great photographer ever. But it's all you can do.

17:57.90
Dusty
Doing that stuff there more.

18:10.93
smacey
Like it's all it's where all your attention goes to obviously outside of like family and stuff. It's your one passion that you put all of your energy into 100 % would you pick that or if I told you you could go in your instance dusty let's say 80% skiing 80% photography like not full throttle. But you can have both at like 80. What would you pick.

18:31.42
Dusty
Um I would probably oh definitely pick skiing.

18:36.34
smacey
Um, but like the split or ah 100 all in on 1 thing.

18:39.55
Dusty
Oh no I'd pit eighty twenty if that's that's what the numbers he said right? Yeah yeah, oh yeah I hundred percent do that for sure I've never been like I love photography because the way it ties into my lifestyle. Not.

18:42.81
smacey
Um, yeah, are just like 80% effort in both things.

18:57.16
Dusty
Because it's just photography.

18:57.26
smacey
Um, right Aaron what about you.

19:00.77
aaronmannes
Yeah,, that's a good way to put it I think I think it's the same I think photography has gotten me traveling again and and seeing things and experiencing nature and learning from what the while to what have you?? Ah, but it's not the end. All be all, you know there's There's a lot of cool things golf. Whether it's skiing paddleboarding hiking alone without put the camera down like that kind of stuff and and my day job as well is is a different beast completely but satisfying in a different Way. So I don't know I like the ah the potpoury of of life. Just everything.

19:36.28
smacey
Um, I just wonder how many people are out. There are like yeah I would go 100% in this thing if it means I would be like the greatest I could possibly be interesting.

19:43.54
aaronmannes
Then they would I think it's like Tiger Woods would say yes you know like yeah I'm going to go a hundred percent into golf and that's what happens.

19:46.29
Dusty
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

19:55.40
smacey
Um, right.

19:56.22
Dusty
Yeah I mean I maybe disagree with that because like think of every one of us that you know is like that's pure like the photographer on Instagram for example that you obviously see they have these other interests but like when you start talking to them any one of my friends for example, has like other hobbies that. Almost rival or are above their creative thing. Especially if you do it full time just like you said with your job and then I have friends that are like olympians and stuff like that too on the opposite side of the spectrum which I obviously didn't make it that far into competitive skiing and they. Probably spend just as much time surfing and skateboarding to outside of that which is like it's almost their job but they had that much more drive than I did too and they still have these other facets of interest that are um, equally as interesting to them.

20:39.91
smacey
Right? So are you saying then maybe that not being 100% fully invested in only that 1 thing actually aids your creative output in that thing.

20:52.12
Dusty
I think I I wasn't trying to say that but I do agree with that. Actually it's but anybody that I know that's like the best at what they do or some like say an olympian Ski or some of the photograph like the bigger creatives that I know that are some of the best in the industry I would say have.

20:57.64
smacey
Um, yeah.

21:08.74
Dusty
Take most of their inspiration outside of that or they don't even view social media because they don't take their inspiration from that. Yeah.

21:14.43
smacey
Interesting. Yeah because I mean I I I have some days. Ah as you know, like as some people know right now I'm training for a full marathon. My first one ever and some days I'll be running like yesterday I was running 3 hours and I'm like what am I doing this isn't making me any money it doesn't make me a better photographer. This is it. You know like I just have sore legs at the end which is a great reward in its own right? But you have those thoughts sometimes and yeah, but you know what it makes returning back to the other things more enjoyable. It's it's.

21:31.77
aaronmannes
Yeah I had the same thoughts for you I was like what is he doing. This isn't making me any money. This isn't no just kidding.

21:47.41
aaronmannes
Um.

21:48.16
smacey
It's making life novel which we all crave. We talked about that a couple episodes ago with Arthur right? and I think it makes me more excited to get back to the other things right? because now my legs don't work today and I'm excited to edit and send emails and you know bust through barriers that way. So I think that's that's an interesting idea as well.

21:57.90
Dusty
Okay.

22:05.90
Dusty
So yeah.

22:08.84
smacey
Um, so you were talking about I can't remember exactly what you said, but it was about 10 minutes ago um you know when you're networking with people who are becoming extremely successful in the photography world who you may consider them friends. How does does that? Do you find that that. Helps you like does that bring you business is networking affecting your bottom line literally I know you're not thinking that when you're talking to a friend I mean we just we just talked and we support friends because we're good people and you know it's human nature but is there a byproduct of that have you found.

22:42.63
Dusty
Yeah, let's let's call it real. Let's call. Let's call networking relationship building and I think relationship building does I don't think networking necessarily does in terms of oh I'm trying to build this connection. But I definitely think like.

22:48.90
smacey
Um, sure.

22:57.70
Dusty
I guess for example, like the people I was in the yukon with that I said earlier is a friend of mine that I met like around four years ago Victor Arden which you guys have probably seen his work super talented guy but we. Kind of networked through other friends or built a relationship and then it's built up now to where we do probably like 35% plus of our work together even though we have our own businesses and that's just like 1 small example, especially bigger people in the industry. I.

23:15.24
smacey
Nice.

23:24.58
Dusty
Try not to be that guy. That's like oh trying to build those relationships but when it does happen. Authentically I have experienced some monetary gain from that. Well it's not because I was searching that out but just because you get put in different rooms. But it's like it's not because I force myself into that room and it's like oh I've asked for that. It's just. You built like good relationship there and actually become friends with those people. It's just like how your guys' relationship works is as it begins as it's just like anything like that you start to find those places that might be a good fit but then I also have the opposite ones I'm really might be really good friends with like a bigger creator but we don't.

23:47.20
smacey
Right.

24:01.23
Dusty
Create in the same way and we don't have any business relationship together too. So I think it's just like oh finding that kind of good middle ground of ah where it makes sense to pursue those things too. But that's getting a little bit off topic of your original question of like have I seen the return on those. Networking things. But I do think um that the whole general thing of just building really authentic relationships as much as that's a Buzzword phrase is like the key to it all so not putting all your eggs into a couple baskets but like being open to these one-off relationships even like these conversations like. Seth put me in touch with Tamron and I've been able to work with Tamron for like over a year now I'm not that it was a major contract or anything but it's been a really cool relationship building thing too and like that's just from us being in contact doing a podcast so that's great example of that.

24:50.40
smacey
Right? Yeah that's actually interesting I want to chat about that because you know they were asking me who is some they're trying to expand more into Canada right? and they're asking. You know who would you recommend and by no means in my like the oracle of knowing all that but I kind of sat there and I was like who would I you know who would I put my reputation. You know, kind of on the line for because it's a reflection of me right? who you recommends a reflection of yourself and. You know we're not best friends like you said, but we're you know we we chat every now and then and we're on a podcast for the second time together if I ever had a question I'd hit you up. You know you'd help me out and um so I was like my criteria was people who do good work and who seem. Like reliable and who are nice, friendly. That was literally my criteria not I didn't I don't even know I don't I can't remember how many followers you had at the time I didn't care you know which is which is I just kind of wanted to put that out there.

25:47.33
Dusty
And.

26:00.80
smacey
But based on what you were saying it kind of begs the question. So if someone's listening and they're thinking to themselves I struggle Maybe with that genuine relationship building I know this is tough to put into words in the way relationships unfold and build and grow and prosper over time is very unique and it's tough to put. Into you know, chronological steps but in your opinion How have your best genuine relationships kind of started and flourished either digitally or in person with people in the community.

26:34.00
Dusty
Ah, again, it is a kind of a weird thing because we're also unique personally and with our own skills and and weaknesses. But I think like honestly the most powerful thing is finding a unique error. Ah, common interest or a common passion. So like all 3 of us have an interest in outdoor photography wildlife I think we probably all have more interest than the average person stuff than stuff like that. So like that's an immediate thing which is going to give us a higher chance of having a good friendship or a good relationship. Um, so even just. Looking at somebody. That's maybe on Instagram they don't know anybody they just moved to a new town and they want to meet somebody I think even for myself, it's just finding those people that are sharing work. This is going very specific to like Instagram creative people. But this sharing work that's in your own own interest you already stoked on what they're creating it aligns with like.

27:19.25
smacey
Yeah.

27:28.12
Dusty
Values in terms of how they're doing it. Whatever that may look like for you and then also just trying to put yourself in those places where they are in a mutual kind of way that's going very simple but Instagram Meetups were such a big thing back in the day but they're not as big now. It's usually like individual creators. Putting them on and there may not be as many people show up. But I think going to kind of those common areas whether it's like in Calgary we had soity house or something which was created by Scott Ba and just another photographer in Canada but it. I wasn't generally frequenting it. However, something back in the day that would be a great place to go and just like meet other creatives and you're not going to become friends with all of them at once but just putting yourself in those situations, especially like I'm more of an extroverted person generally so it's a little bit easier for me to like. Even socially reaching out to people or like commenting and just being in those interactions. But if you are more introverted is trying to put yourself in places where you're comfortable enough as um to actually talk to people and get out of your own bubble I guess it is and kind of That's why I said finding a common interest allows you to like alleviate that stress because you automatically have something to talk to and I also think it's not going into it with a business mindset is like going into it with just like building connections or building community more so than that even if you are trying to like strive for the business side of things.

28:52.70
smacey
Yeah I mean that also another question when you were chatting earlier to you. What's the difference really between networking the intent of networking and the intent of relationship building is it just based on where you are in the relationship those 2 words or is there a distinct difference in your opinion.

29:07.85
Dusty
I think I think it's the action of it I think networking is the idea of like you and I fly to I don't know fly to Montreal and set up like 700 meetings and try to like build business connections through that I think there can. Be a way that you're like that type of networking can work just because you're putting face to name and stuff like that. But I think doing like community billing or whatever that looks like I know I was saying or I don't what did I use return something like that can anyone can? yeah yeah I think that like is taking into.

29:36.82
smacey
Um, building genuine connections build genuine relationships. Yeah.

29:45.20
Dusty
The whole like making a big picture of like is it realistic to me to build a relationship with with this person if we're looking at their social presence. All of these things or the business that they have is there any reason um like why it. That's not a very good thing is it is it genuinely going to be a good option for me to make a connection here or is it just going to be me taking from them or them taking from me I Guess that's like a very broad perspective of that. So I think adding value looking at it of especially on the social front is like trying to make friends over money right? at at the front.

30:08.78
aaronmannes
Um, yeah.

30:17.42
Dusty
Stages of that. Um, but I think networking is just very kind of can be very sharky versus like just trying to actually build friendships and people that you build friends with and like community community with before you go into business relationships are going to have your best interests at heart way before somebody that you just. Dmed and asked for like I don't know support or something like that or ask them where got the whatever you know.

30:39.40
smacey
Um, yeah.

30:43.42
aaronmannes
There's true and that's a good point I think I think ah with a lot of clients. There's got ah if you can show. There's a little bit of skin in the game whether you already bought their product and you're a fan like like there's got to be something that shows. Maybe maybe it's trust maybe it's loyalty. Maybe it's something above. Hey can I take photos for money like that's that straight kind of cold call where it's like hey I love your product I did this I could do more of this. Do you like it like that immediately. There's probably a tire connection there where it's like oh that's cool. The person's into what we're doing and no one's more into what they're doing than the company. That's running it. You know because it's it's their passion so to show that you have that same sort of interest maybe goes back to what you're saying of making that connection with people whether it's I can tell that guy like skiing I like skiing we both shoot you know wildlife. This could be a good match. Ah, the company's probably doing the same sort of thing.

31:39.15
Dusty
Yeah, absolutely Eron I Think that kind of ties it into like the business side of things when you're reaching out to brands very well because even if it's not like you said like oh I have the product. It's like legitimately that like Mutual interest and stuff is like a lot of ways that I'll build that. First connection if I don't actually have the product or something like that is like watching there even if it's like there's short films or something like that. It's like oh you did a short film on a fly fishing trip in my area. Oh I Love fly fishing that and this area is like my backyard I Absolutely love it out here. So cool. We did that and it's like. Ah, really good way to actually tie those in and it shows that you're actually interested in the brand and also that you can do a little bit of research and you're not just like asking asking asking I think networking on terms of the business side is slightly different than just building relationships within like the creative community.

32:25.10
aaronmannes
Um, yeah.

32:34.20
Dusty
Where you can be a little bit more cut and dry just because like in the end of the day you are looking for that looking for a dollar to make things go around but you can build a good friendship with the people behind those brands and I think that's first and foremost realistically.

32:51.29
aaronmannes
Vehicle ah whoop sorry.

32:52.11
smacey
Um, would it be fair to say. Do you do you guys? think that like networking is ah you scratch my back all scratch yours whereas a genuine relationship is offering help advice guidance support without expecting anything in return is that fair and do you think. You two agree with that.

33:11.24
Dusty
Think that's definitely the right direction but like the way that I see networking is like oh you scratch my back like 5 times and I may scratch your back. That's how like that's why negative connotation because that's.

33:19.51
aaronmannes
Me.

33:28.22
Dusty
Purely because there's people that take advantage in those types of situations I see fairly often. You know, no not I'm fairly like I I have a pretty tight circle and I have my guards up a little bit in that aspect I've.

33:30.73
smacey
Has this happened to you.

33:31.26
aaronmannes
Yeah.

33:43.70
Dusty
I don't know but I have seen it a lot of times, especially for people starting out and brands can be doing that as well. It's not just like creator to creator. So I think that.

33:49.41
smacey
Woo here we go What gives you the Ic What gives you the I in the inbox. Yeah.

33:56.94
aaronmannes
Um, yeah.

33:57.69
Dusty
Yeah freebies I'm pretty nice to be ah, always answer all that stuff I you got to look at it from the perspective of they're trying to make it go by 2 and sometimes the people in those positions don't have any budget or their bosses really mean. So.

34:09.82
aaronmannes
Yeah.

34:11.58
smacey
What's your answer to the freebies I think it's important when those freebies come across the inbox like hey can we'll you know can you send us some photos for a mention or whatever I think it's important to you know, kind of lecture the wrong word but kind of enlighten people who may not know of why that's not the. Not the way of the road.

34:30.73
Dusty
Yeah,, that's just such an interesting thing for me too because I actually think that the brand I'd say 75% of the brands know what they're doing and that's like they don't need to be lectured on it because they know what they're doing and it makes sense from them from a fisco standpoint so they're trying to get the most out of it. So like they're. Whether whether you want to use the term of taking advantage of creators to get that like content made. Oh Do we just have them drop. Yeah yeah, all good. Um, whether they're taking advantage of the creators. So like they know what they're doing but on the other standpoint. It's like new businesses.

34:54.33
aaronmannes
Yeah, but keep going with your thoughts. It's still recording.

35:09.45
Dusty
And small businesses that don't have budget behind it like a lot of people don't have any idea what's going on So I don't think it's good to like go at their throats necessarily either. So I try to like kind of take ah the midline and not like go too hard be as informative as possible and kind of.

35:15.82
aaronmannes
Right.

35:27.55
Dusty
Um, give them a little bit of rundown or offer like what my rates would be for like the requests and say like I can't do it at this rate. Unfortunately I'm not taking any free or unpaid projects. But I also from the business side of things too. Which.

35:36.98
aaronmannes
Um, yeah.

35:43.80
Dusty
Some pure pure creatives really just don't see it from that standpoint but like looking at Entrepreneurly I try to take that mindset on onto those freebie asks.

35:50.57
aaronmannes
Yeah, it's our it's our job to say no, they're allowed to ask for whatever they want. We can go into a restaurant and say could we have this meal for free and it's a potential they might be like sure I guess or they might be like no no, you can't and then. Enough restaurants say you can't have this meal for free. We're going to pay for a meal. You know.

36:12.86
Dusty
Yeah I agree on that it's it goes also for the opposite of 2 is like if you don't ask for 10 k you're never going to get 10 k and that doesn't matter the deliverables. It's like it changes too. So like. Just having some sort of awareness to like who those asks are coming from is that's definitely how I judge my responses for sure.


00:30.84
Dusty
Upper management's not giving them budget or if they have a budget and they're not trying to allocate it towards creators I think like fiscally some brands are trying to use that and to their advantage so that makes sense I've given them a little bit of crap. But I also think that small businesses and people that are just starting out really just don't know. What creators are worth or what content is worth in today's market so I think it's a he kind of can't give everyone too much hell and just kind of take that perspective into those relationships. Um, yeah, and that's kind of where I was going with it.

01:02.11
aaronmannes
Yeah, he said a good point I mean first of all for both of them. They're not going to get free photos if they don't ask for free photos or assets and we're not going to get paid if we don't ask get paid. It's kind of as as simple as that.

01:14.73
smacey
Right? So you can't take it personally almost huh.

01:20.71
Dusty
That that I kind of ah have a hard time with people like giving brands a really hard time of that is just like you as a business to always trying to ask the same as much as you can or not to be like greedy but you're trying to get the most budget that you can that you think is reasonable and where you can provide value. And then at the same time like a larger corporation is going to have a different perspective on that interaction as Well. It's not like they're looking at you and like let's just take advantage of this person who puts all their effort into their art. It's like let's try to get as much spend out of our ad dollars that we have and get as far as that we can. So yeah, definitely don't take that.

01:53.49
smacey
Right? So it goes both ways. Good.

01:56.38
aaronmannes
Yeah, and it's you're usually dealing with middle men or women you know're like it's not so Seth you own a company I'm working for you. Dusty's a creator I'm going to ask you know 100 people for free photos dustsy says yes and I come to you with his assets and I'm like.

02:02.76
Dusty
Ah, me.

02:15.76
aaronmannes
This dude's gonna do it for free just for like 1 of our shirts and then he knocks out of the park he has this hero thing. No licensing whatever we use it on all our billboards I am the big winner I'm getting a raise you know.

02:25.75
Dusty
Absolutely, It's a truth though. It's so true that the other point too is like I know people that have to get the same email from a brand.

02:27.13
smacey
But that's a hell of a sound bite.

02:32.27
aaronmannes
The big winner.

02:41.47
Dusty
And then that's asking for free stuff and then they turn into like a multiten figure project from that brand all by building the relationship and saying the right things too. So it's like that's why I don't think it's worth being an a hole towards every single one of those freebies asked. Yeah.

02:51.64
aaronmannes
Yeah, no yeah.

02:54.32
smacey
Right? Never being an ahole. Never be an ahole. But if you're not if you're not if you're not up to do that work for free even just in your opinion. Do you need to give a reason why you can you just say no what would you do.

03:02.80
Dusty
Yeah, be honest I Just ah I Just usually generally say I don't have the cap capacity to take on it any free or unpaid work at the time this is. What I would be able to do in order to fit you into my current schedule I'd love to work with the brand. Um, there's this these these this this and this reason why I think there's a great fit here and I think we can provide each other a lot of value but under the certain these circumstances I can't take the product in the exchange for what you're asking. But. I'm definitely open to further communication.

03:36.23
smacey
Fair enough fair enough, Let me ask you this and changing changing topics here and this isn't meant as like a loaded question or to get your backup but I'm Curious. You know someone as creative as yourself. How much time Maybe you spend gaining inspiration. From your social media apps like viewing and consuming for the the purpose and intent of oh that's cool. All that's neat I Want to try that and do you ever find yourself getting lost. Maybe okay like I've kind of veered off track and how do you catch yourself. So does that question make sense.

04:12.38
Dusty
Yeah, absolutely I think it's a very good question for me because I'm kind of a little bit scatterbrained especially like using phone. So my especially my social is it's not like I don't have my following accounts like who I'm following is like just a mix of everything that I'm interested in from. Ah, dwarf photographers the photographers in our niche and then anything over to like my proke friends and then cooking stuff too. So um I don't follow anything that I don't have interest in so I look at it all as there's opportunity for inspiration. But I definitely do get off track in terms of just viewing social in general. Um, but are that something that I'm taking into account especially this year I'm trying to get a little bit more conscientious of how I'm viewing that stuff but I don't also find myself like needing to go and search for inspiration online unless there's like a specific ask where like say for this. Northern lights auto project that we're doing is like oh we're looking for maybe some different automobile shots that we could do and I'll go and search that out but on a day today like I have my things that like skiing or hiking and my passion of just wildlife in general. That's like fueling my interest or my inspiration. That I don't find that I'm searching that out on a day-to-day I guess.

05:28.99
smacey
Right? So when you're storyboarding in your head or on paper. It's just it's just manifested itself. You're creative. You know how is that work for you. How does that process work because I think it's interesting for listeners to hear all all methodologies.

05:38.93
Dusty
Yeah, ah.

05:44.80
Dusty
Yeah, absolutely. So definitely 1 thing for me is like starting on like pen and paper is getting a look actually like writing stuff down even on my daily notes like that helps me get like transferring from my mind into like more of a physical thing and I can write stuff out like that. But I've been using. I'm going on the broader scale here of this breakdown but I've used an app called millanote I don't know if you guys have heard of it. But it's basically like a storyboarding thing and you can put in links images all sorts of stuff like that as well as write notes all in 1 place. So for me, especially looking at like a larger freelance project where. We're um, bringing in like multiple people that allows you to see all of you see the same thing and put inputs there. But then the creative definitely takes me a little bit of time to kind of get down I'll write down like a general overview of that which is like the client's not going to see any of this. But. Kind of just getting my original like my initial thoughts like down as as much and as like detail as I can and then I like to like just let it breathe for a little bit of time depending on obviously the like the turnaround times but I definitely need time to think about things like the inspiration. Definitely. Comes from many sources but it's usually not like sought out. It's like shower all like oh this is where that transition will come from or like this is like a nice way to tie in these interior shots to like the the nature scenes or something like that and those like detail pieces that I have.

07:11.89
Dusty
Figured out from the puzzle usually come a little bit later but I try to flesh it out and give myself as much opportunity to see the whole picture um to like fill in those little cracks because I find if I go too detailed right? away that I'll have like. This really really detailed plan all the way through and then I'm missing out on like key aspects that sometimes come at a later time whereas if I have like a little bit more of a broader overview when I'm approaching something like getting a good idea of like. Like just generally how I'm shooting this that are we doing like more handheld stuff 24 frames per second or like um the type of imagery like whether it's more landscape wide shots or a lot of tight. Obviously you're getting a lot of mixture of stuff. Those is just examples but just having that broad broad opportunity allows me to like. Kind of pull from a lot more areas versus having like a really detailed structure to it for myself. Anyways, I know when you get into like the higher level production stuff like usually you have that creative down to a t and that allows you to like execute things a little easier but kind of in the midrange where we are right now we have pretty lean team and we can kind of. Adapt and and change as we go. So that's kind of the structure that I use.

08:18.98
aaronmannes
Are.

08:20.99
smacey
So when you're thinking about maybe some more nuanced decisions like okay I've got this scene that I've envisioned and I need to decide what focal length I Want to use or what do I want motion in this shot are those are you figuring those ideas out on the fly. Are you ahead of time sitting down and. With intent dedicating time to figuring out that problem or is this more of a shower thought as you you know put or is it a mixed bag.

08:45.77
Dusty
Yeah, but and right now I'm a pretty big mix bag Honestly I'm like I said I'm pretty scattered ranges if I'm gonna be an all honestey creatively and all this things so having that structure like I said there is really great, but. Um, I'm also no director at this point like I'm getting to learn how to do all these different parts of being a creator but I'm not working on large productions but I definitely think Ah, it's better to do the ladder of like getting very detailed than having like really good um reason behind like your shot choices. But the team that I work with we usually have like I said like a fairly broad overview and like the stylistic feel say for a video project that we want and then in the field we can adapt to like whether we want to use a long shot or a wide shot or just capture variety I think as we start to like get into these larger stuff that's more on the commercial side and. Beyond social. It's maybe like a small Tv spot or something like that you have to have that nailed so that you can execute within the time and with your talent but since a lot of our stuff is like really under control. We go a little bit cowboy with it I think and more so than maybe that you should but that's just. Being honest about how things are and we work really well together and you can kind of bring that together and also think that it also depends on how you like to edit to if you're okay with having a little bit left to the editing side and meshing that story together. You can get away with some things. But if there's certain shots.

10:17.92
Dusty
We'll usually execute like the ones that are musts and then build out from there, especially if we don't have that good of a plan in terms of full legs and what ah but not like that. Yeah.

10:23.68
smacey
Yeah. Yeah I was gonna say there's kind of 2 spectrums when you're putting together a a video whether it's a real or a long form video I mean I'm no expert. But in my my experience I've I've gone the route of I'm gonna film exactly what I need and then I can build my story out or I'm just gonna film. Everything and then when I get home I'll build the story from what I have have you done Both of those things is there is there a better approach I mean like you kind of just touched on it. But maybe you can elaborate on my my spectrum.

10:47.23
Dusty
Read.

10:53.10
Dusty
Yeah, no, that's that's exactly what I'm kind of talking about like we go from the spectrum of like commercial production like in l a or something like that they have every single shot list or like a car commercial. They have it down to the t. And then they'll have like a pickup guy which is picking up all the extra shots. That's maybe they'll toss it in which is just like a running gun setup but I find for myself especially because we do have a little bit more latitude of like. Social stuff, especially if it's more my channel it's like I'm generally the last person that has to say on like those creative things. So while I want to be more of like write it down. Get everything very like dialed in I just often too with the budget in the time and some restraints with like not having 5 people on set. I think I'm fitting in that place. Ah, where you want to be have your details the stuff that you really need to so you're not overshooting but then also have like leaving out to like being able to do a little bit more of that. Ah just random shots of your shooting everything like you said I think. That's kind of a nice place to be because then you're not overshooting like we both run into before but then you also have the confirmation that you've already nailed these like really key shots and oftentimes especially with like the smaller scale stuff. You can kind of get away with that.

12:12.81
smacey
Yeah, yeah, I overshoot when I'm when I've booked a plane ticket to somewhere that I don't know if I'll ever be back and it's a lot of money I say I'm going to shoot everything This is more personal right? but.

12:19.97
Dusty
That.

12:23.84
aaronmannes
Um, yeah.

12:24.35
Dusty
Yeah, yeah.

12:26.63
smacey
I Think you got to remind yourself like if it's commercial and you're overshooting, you're costing yourself money right.

12:30.40
Dusty
Totally That's a good. Yeah I was just gonna say that's a really good way to look at it too because like I shoot so much stuff often like for my personal thing That's just like it never ends up going where is anywhere but then also the odd time that you do or if you have a really.

12:30.75
aaronmannes
Man time time and money.

12:48.54
Dusty
Project in mind and you've overshot and these like memories with friends and family and stuff that's for social. That's also really cool to have and go back to so like as a creative we have like this spectrum of all these things and looking at a commercial project compared to something that you're shooting of your family and friends on a hiking trip to like. A small brown partnership is like just looking at it of what's going to give you the best or turn on like your input and I think it doesn't have to be like fiscally wise or like um in terms of just direct pay to time input. But it's just like all of these things are constantly changing and the best that you can look at through a lens of of. If Yeah of that way is like that. It's always changing is's going to be the best kind of woger That's a ramble.

13:27.26
smacey
Yeah, so no, it's good. What are you working on right now and not like project wise but just like skill wise that you know you're excited to kind of learn this skill but you feel a complete rookie in that you know is there anything on the table I I know someone like yourself is constantly trying to learn.

13:41.22
Dusty
Will we listen? yeah.

13:47.26
smacey
You know it's It's a common denominator with creatives who are trying to push the limit. So but we all feel like rookies. You know when we're trying to learn that new thing I'm curious if there's anything on the plate right now for you.

13:51.98
Dusty
Yeah, well we were just been talking about it for half an hour as getting storyboarding and stuff like that. It's like I'm in that place where I said I'm halfway in between and some of the bigger things that we've had coming up is like.

13:52.86
aaronmannes
Yeah.

14:10.57
Dusty
It's definitely lacking and actually having that like ah pre-production really nailed and it's not like every single shot has to be there but like just making sure that you have the really good structure as the Skeleton of the project so that we can we especially if you don't have a lot of time or if you have time restraint so that you can. And Nail those things as something that because we've been doing kind of small social stuff or like our own shoots is like get pushed to the side on those but I definitely have felt the pressure sometimes when um I didn't really get it all planned out all that well and that's definitely been something that I'm trying to work on and it's also like. The way to do it on how to get that down into words So it translates to other people on the set and also just Beyond Just the storyboarding is like the production side of things is like actually producing it getting your models contracts all those things as things start to scale up is like when you're.

15:02.64
smacey
Um, right.

15:05.17
Dusty
Ah, fairly small team. It's like you have a lot of hats but also trying how to figure that out I I mean I can keep going on of things that I want to Learn. It's like even just trying to properly budget. Projects and like especially when budgets started to get bigger and how you're quoting to actually maximize what you're getting and then actually being realistic on how much time you want to put in what gear you need all those types of things. So like I think that's a constant learn especially as you evolve as a creator because the scale is changing and then you so all of a sudden. May have a much larger budget but you've brought on way more people or more gear or whatever that is models anything like that and then all of a sudden you're not profiting as much too. So That's a um, fairly important thing This is not so much creative related. But I think that's something that I'm always striving to get better at especially as like we said like.

15:45.74
aaronmannes
Um.

15:55.22
Dusty
Just being a good businessman Even if we have to transition in the future is ah a really good skill set to have so that's something that I'm striving to get better at and then there's simple things like getting better at color grading or having a better timeline strategy or structure things like that photography. I don't have as much to I'm I'm fairly satisfied in that but video is definitely something I'm trying to push.

16:17.21
smacey
Sound exactly like me where it's like photography is kind of not saying that you can't get any better at photography right? or that we're experts but it's kind of like I get it I get my workflow I know like I need something to like suck it for a bit and like learn and I love asking people these.

16:21.90
aaronmannes
Um, yeah.

16:22.25
Dusty
Yeah.

16:31.10
Dusty
Heard.

16:31.24
aaronmannes
Are.

16:35.10
smacey
I love asking people who are in the process of learning new skills. What's working for them in that current moment because I just feel like you get more insight from asking somebody how the climb of Mount Everest has been when they're halfway up versus at the summit to use that analogy does that make sense I feel like you can get a lot more.

16:47.25
Dusty
And yeah I do totally? yeah.

16:53.93
smacey
Yes, I mean and any anything you've just talked about whether it's storyboarding or budgeting. You know you just caveat it by no means are you like the expert but what her maybe some 1 or 2 key points. You've learned that have like helped you or your business or you as a creative that you feel would be useful for people listening.

17:09.14
Dusty
I Think you said it I got the start there when you're hint trying all these questions is like the being open to constantly learning is like even how we said we're doing really well or we feel confident when our skill set in photography is like. At that same point is like I've still been learning things or different strategies on how to do that and I'm open to to that. So I think the basis is just being open to learning and actually like searching out ways to improve and being very analytical or self aware to being like oh I'm not like an expert expert at this.. There's probably ways that I can improve. And so like just taking time to do a self reflection and being realistic and like spent whether it's business creative or this and like which is going to bring you the most value and I also think is like we've been talking about this whole time is like having these very transparent conversations with. Friends and close people in your inner circle. Sometimes the best like creative partners or business people that you work with don't have to be friends either but being able to talk to somebody that you respect and ask them for their honest opinion on your situation and stuff like that and here. Where they think that you can improve on whether it's creative business or even sometimes just relationship wise is like a huge thing I think for me and I have lucky to have like a community or small circle of friends that I trust with those opinions and then on that same merit is like making sure that you find those people.

18:35.20
Dusty
And not just taking anybody's opinion on those things too. But yeah, have.

18:39.53
smacey
Yeah, finding the balance ah finding the balance in.

18:39.98
aaronmannes
That's a good point you ah you obviously allude to Instagram being a big cornerstone to your your personal brand your business. Um I mean I started an Instagram five years ago so I have a snapshot of what. Social media and Instagram look like back then and what people were complaining about what it used to look like 5 years prior to that and now we've jumped forward I'm curious where you think this whole thing's going in the next five years and are you just using that surfboard behind you and riding the wave or do you have a sort of ah. Strategy or investment strategy if you will in terms of where you think it's going are we in trouble are we in good hands. What are the skills we need for the future.

19:28.20
Dusty
Oh it's a very big question. It's like I've I'm not frustrated with Instagram but it's like it does change so often. So it's like my mindset is a little bit skewed right now because I don't feel that confident in what I'm doing there I'm trying to re. Um, figure out what that is like not for the app necessarily but like who I am on Instagram so like that's a big thing for me right now. But then you look at across the platforms and just the way that social is growing totally I personally don't think it's going anywhere but it's like we're talking about looking at. Like how brands are and some people go at look at it of like a really negative thing when they're asking is like that's how I look at Instagram in general as well. I think that there's pretty much always some sort of opportunity. We're still seeing people that are growing there I think the big thing that could be something to be aware of or thinking about is like. The way that brands are are spending and where their marketing budgets are going I don't have fear right now because I think if you're building a good business skill set that you should be able to pivot and that's going to be a huge thing but it might be an adjustment to see how. But maybe brands are bringing on ugc people in-house and they're not going to creator. So I definitely am thinking about that I definitely invest a fair amount of time I've over the last about only about a month or so I have seemed to like just pull back. It wasn't like a conscious decision I got.

20:52.42
Dusty
Quite busy and a lot of things were happening since the new year. So I haven't been posting a lot and I've actually been declining in followers for the first time in a little bit of while so that's interesting and that's hard too because you feel like oh you have attached it to all these things and you want to keep growing but at the same time It's almost good to realize that. I can still be successful in my business and I can actually be losing followers. So that's been kind of a weird introspection to have even though I do have aspirations to keep growing and building those relationships with that followers on Instagram but ah overarchingly I think used in the right way like social in general is.

21:18.14
aaronmannes
Um.

21:29.93
Dusty
A fairly positive place for creatives to be and I don't think there's any fear and continue to do that As long as you're using it with the right amount of balance and actually building skillset and like putting fires in the iron outside of just this fire if that answers your question I Kind of.

21:45.67
aaronmannes
Yeah, yeah, no, those are your thoughts on it. What I mean well said lot of good points. It is ever changing. It is different in you know my short time. The.

21:48.47
Dusty
Went all around the place there but those are kind of like general thoughts on that property.

22:00.71
aaronmannes
Instagram Live was a huge thing now then the reels of course a lot of stuff in between a lot of things being promoted threads you know, ah, what else do we have? That's just was so hot and then not yeah clubhouse moving good on.

22:02.55
Dusty
Me.

22:11.55
smacey
Too many too many things.

22:15.89
Dusty
Um, yeah, what are your guys's thoughts on that. Why I'd love to hear that actually I know it's I'm chatting but I'd love to hear.

22:21.70
aaronmannes
I think I think it it is forever changing I think they're they're trying to incorporate everything that's cool out there right? like they they copy the snapchat thing with stories they're doing the Tiktok thing with reals. They're I think doing a decent job of competing. With those entities. Um I think if something cool comes up. You know they might swallow it up. Ah, it's just it's just an interesting I think environment for social media and where it's going. It's definitely media and ad heavy. Ah, so like um I'm sorry video and ad heavy for me I see very few photos from creators. Um, maybe 1 and then there's definitely an ad or sponsored post and then a lot of reels so that's definitely changed. Um I know me personally for photos. They don't. They don't go very far anymore you know and that's just been a change and that's okay and still it is what it is without it I don't think my photos would anyone would see anyone and except my friends when I'm texting them so it's still a cool service. Still a cool thing. Um, definitely. A.

23:19.96
Dusty
A.

23:38.43
aaronmannes
A casino effect with the reels and going viral and all that stuff. Um, they know what they're doing So that's what I'm seeing.

23:46.14
Dusty
Sorry I'm just gonna cut right there for a second sorry guys. My yeah, my camera battery just died. So I'm just gonna swap it couldn what a day.

23:53.48
aaronmannes
Yeah, what a day.

23:54.35
smacey
Um, that's okay, that's okay.

24:01.73
Dusty
Um, at least I was watching.

24:03.96
aaronmannes
Sure Seth do we stop? Yeah, probably our our cameras. Not this.

24:10.65
Dusty
Sorry guys.

24:10.86
smacey
We stop? Yeah, we stop it not the audio. Yeah yes, just have 1 more question for dusty that'll be our wrap up question.

24:21.57
aaronmannes
Um, yeah.

24:23.26
Dusty
Yeah, this one maybe got a little all over the place with the stop and starts I was losing my thought.

24:28.43
smacey
We well yeah, it's been hard Aaron edits the video in the past. It's been a cluster fuck for him. But I think we have a system now for when connection issues happen and stuff so it shouldn't be too bad.

24:38.26
Dusty
Oh yeah.

24:45.51
smacey
Are you recording video yet sd okay Aon I'm recording video Seth.

24:46.50
Dusty
Hopefully I'm recording now.

24:47.47
aaronmannes
Okay, all right little clap.

24:57.71
Dusty
Dusty Double clap.

24:57.91
aaronmannes
Nice double clap.

24:59.99
smacey
Um, all right, all right? Well to wrap up if you had to give 1 piece of advice to your beginner photographer self. What would it be.

25:12.20
Dusty
Just keep going. It's super super simple, but it's like like I was saying with seeing people like ourselves starting out is like some people have fallen off, but it's only because they didn't continue I've seen people that I met at the start that didn't find really success until this year looking at Instagram wise or other things like that business. But even if they had to pick up another job for a couple of years and stuff like that they stayed with it and then all of a sudden they'll like blow up on Instagram and then then in turn follows also freelance too is like if you just stick with it. Even if you're not on socials. Um. You're going to learn those skill sets over time and even if it's fine. The scenes like learning those things is even if you don't become a full time person ever. Those skill sets are going to transcend beyond there and then it's just it's so nuanced and cliche to say was like just keep going and be persistent. And hopefully you'll and be subware and you'll learn along the way that's like as simple as I can go and like I honestly think that's the biggest thing to be honest, ah, that's as much as I'm going to say.

26:13.83
smacey
Yeah, yeah I mean you eventually get there as long as you don't stop I mean within reason right? I mean I'm never being be able to dunk a basketball I'm not going to try that. But I know I'm good at photography. Yeah okay to your point that's self-awareness right? exactly.

26:15.90
aaronmannes
Makes sense keep going.

26:22.50
Dusty
Yeah, ah but that's self-aware right? self awareness you got have selfawareness.

26:33.12
aaronmannes
Um, and you you might you might be able to.

26:33.24
smacey
Yeah, you got to know what you're good at know it. But I just hang from the monkey bars for a year and grow to six six and

26:35.21
Dusty
Yeah.

26:40.10
aaronmannes
No, there's there's shorter. There's shorter people than you that have dunked. You're an athlete.

26:40.13
Dusty
Yeah, no, you got to follow and means over.

26:46.93
smacey
There's also genetics. Yeah, there's also genetics I'm not dunking a basketball anytime soon. I'm just I'm a very optimistic person.

26:49.85
aaronmannes
I Don't know after the after the marathon after the marathon go into a training program to dunk. Let's see there's there's training. Yeah yeah.

26:50.29
Dusty
It.

26:57.14
smacey
Just go from but.

26:57.28
Dusty
I agree go follow by follow Knees over toes guide if you don't follow them already and and you'll be able to fix those knees up and you'll be able to jump.

27:07.50
aaronmannes
Yeah.

27:09.25
smacey
He's over toes guy like how you both know what that is I'm sitting here saying what the hell is what's a fiding got okay, cool cool I love watching the athlete next videos Jeff Cavalier you know that what you.

27:12.73
Dusty
The one of the best ah isio ni guy on Instagram yeah, it's really I don't know that oh I know Jeff Cap yeah

27:25.67
aaronmannes
Day. Ah.

27:26.42
smacey
You're a gym guy come on like I fixed my IT band pain I was like all right I trust you I trust you? Well dusty. Thanks for coming on for a second time buddy really appreciate it. You're welcome back anytime and excited to see. Um.

27:27.18
Dusty
I know Jeff this guy's as good as that I'm yeah.

27:34.30
aaronmannes
Um, yeah, he so tos.

27:40.89
Dusty
Yeah I Love chatted.

27:41.60
aaronmannes
That's good Chan.

27:44.97
smacey
Yeah, excited to see where your content heads sounds like you're trying to align it more with who you are and that's ever changing. You know it's exciting to see people evolve starting new chapters. Keep some of the same old bring in some new so we'll see where yeah.

27:57.24
Dusty
Absolutely appreciate you having me and absolutely East chat with go.

28:01.67
smacey
Thanks! Very much Aaron appreciate your time as always as well. All right guys till next time.

28:02.51
aaronmannes
Yeah, Youtube 1 see yeah might.