The Benefits of Becoming a One-Stop-Shop For Content Creation with @yulneverroamalone

Today's episode features a discussion with Canadian photographer, content creator, and influencer Jenna Marie (@yulneverroamalone). She specializes in short form video, cabin photography, commercial photography, art direction, influencer collaborations, and social media partnered giveaways. In this episode some of the things we touch on are:

• The power of creating an all-in-one-content creation team
• Helpful applications and software to up your efficiency as a creator
• Upselling after you handed in your deliverables
• Corresponding with commercial businesses and tourism boards

If you're listening on Spotify you can now interact with us directly by typing your thoughts, opinions, or questions in the Q & A section. We read them and publish them. It's a great way to make these episodes more of a two way conversation so be sure to add your two cents after each episode!

You can find links to all of Jenna's work that we referenced in the episode by clicking this link: https://bio.site/yulneverroamalone

Below are some of the applications we mentioned in this episode. These are not official sponsors, nor are they officially endorsed by the podcast. We just wanted to provide them as resources referenced in this episode for you to check out at your own accord:

Milanote - A web-based tool designed for creative individuals to visually organize and collaborate on their ideas and projects.
Canva - A free and user-friendly online graphic design tool that enables users to create various types of visual content such as social media posts, presentations, posters, videos, logos, and more.
Pixieset - An all-in-one platform designed for professional photographers to host, share, deliver, proof, and sell their client photo galleries online.
Jasper AI - An advanced AI-powered writing assistant that utilizes custom language models and third-party algorithms to help users generate high-quality content for various purposes. 

Thanks to Tamron Americas for being our lead sponsor this episode! You can check out their website below to see their full lineup of camera lenses or visit your nearest photo retailer to purchase their products:
https://tamron-americas.com/

Thanks to OnCore Golf for being this episode's partial sponsor!
Check out their award winning perimeter weighted golf balls here:
https://www.oncoregolf.com/shop-golf-balls/
Use code TPM15 for 15% off any order!

Make a donation via PayPal for any amount you feel is equal to the value you receive from our podcast episodes! Donations help with the fees related to hosting the show:
https://paypal.me/podcasttpm?country.x=CA&locale.x=en_US

Thanks for listening!
Go get shooting, go get editing, and stay focused.

@sethmacey
@mantis_photography
@thephotographermindset

Transcript

INTRO:

00:00.00
smacey
Welcome back to another episode of the photographer mindset podcast I'm your co-host seth macey.

00:06.41
aaronmannes
And I'm your co-host Aaron Mannes. I got fired from doing the introduction. Nope nope you you as soon as you stop recording last time you were like ah we have to have a conversation. Don't you ever take my role again.

00:10.43
smacey
Ah, you want to take it over from here. Let's go.

00:21.87
smacey
Yeah, he I berated him. This is my intro my intro you hear me anyways.

00:23.66
aaronmannes
I was like dude I'm sorry and yeah I'm sorry and I I just said I'm sorry and that's instant just kryptonite for a Canadian they were like ah okay, that's fine. Let's move on.

00:36.13
smacey
While Aaron is the other co-host sorry for the interruption in my usually flawless intro. This is the photographer mindset podcast where we talk about how to develop a more resilient mind as creators how to you know, strategize individually our own you know. Framework for how to land more clients or just be better artists in general. You know how to maximize our full creative potential sometimes we do episodes together sometimes we do episodes with guests like we did today and before we get into sort of our intro of today's episode if you like what you're hearing you've listened to a few episodes or us your first one and you like what you hear feel free to leave us a rating on Apple. Podcast or Spotify it really does mean a lot to us also new feature on Spotify is the questions and answers thing if you kind of scroll down while the episode is open. You can leave feedback if there's something that you um, you know. Connected with in this episode or something you disagreed with or a question we read those we can publish them other people can see those and it's a good way to make the conversation more of a 2 wo-way street. So that's my pitch That's my intro I've reclaimed it after Aaron did the intro last week maybe we'll give it back to him next week we'll see see but what I am going to do right now is I'm going to hand it over to you to give a little intro of what today's episode is about what you liked because we've already recorded it and um, you know some takeaways so go ahead.

02:14.99
aaronmannes
Yeah, we had ah we had Jenna on um, and you know I I feel like I've walked away learning a ton a ton of tricks of the trade. We talked about the transition between becoming an artist and then becoming um sort of. In the marketing field and how you market yourself and how do you look at a company and say I noticed something I don't want to call it a problem but I do have a solution for it and how you sell that. Sort of concept and but get comfortable in that role of a problem solver and I think that's an ah important transition for anyone that wants to use their tool use their craft use their talent to potentially get some things in return whether it's money. Ah, or experiences or travel. Whatever it may be um I I found it very interesting. What struck me the most I think is how well organized of a machine. Ah her and her boyfriend are in terms of their collective team in creating. These solutions and packages for companies and the way they go about it. The tools that they use. It's about the tools in life and and how good of a set of tools. Do you have and how can you access them and she for sure is probably 1 of the most organized person.

03:42.20
aaronmannes
Ah, persons I've ever had the pleasure of listening to in terms of this is how I go about this process put me to shame I got a lot of work to do.

03:52.62
smacey
Yeah, and I think also the importance of becoming a 1 ne-stop shop for content creation I think that was clearly defined as one of the ways that um, you know clients choose them and there was lots of useful apps and. Software tools dropped in this episode. Maybe we'll put some of those in the episode description and you know I think also we touched on the benefits of finding a photography teammate. You know whether that's a significant other or not and I think we also touched on you know, setting boundaries whether you're in a photography team or just. On your own setting boundaries of when you're thinking about work and when you're recovering or having downtime I think that's you know, very important too. So with that. Let's get into our episode with Jenna Marie also known as you'll never roam alone right? after we hear a quick word from today's sponsor tamron.

INTERVIEW:

02:24.40
smacey
Can you introduce Jenna our guest today?

02:35.33
aaronmannes
Yeah, this is Jenna Jeni marie ah her handle is you'll never roam alone I never actually said that out loud to realize like the play the play on words. Yeah.

02:48.29
smacey
Um, what it actually says Wow It seemed like it seemed kind of obvious there man do you feel an all right.

02:52.15
aaronmannes
Yeah, that's the first time I know but ah yeah I just never like read it. You know how some people have like I just like saw it like and I was like oh it must be post. Malone's sister or something but no, it's not.


03:10.25
Jenna
Um, do you know what? the why youl stands for because um people. Okay, so the y you will. It's the um airport code of Montreal.

03:10.29
aaronmannes
Ah, no, so tell me.

03:18.24
smacey
A little Easter egg.

03:19.47
aaronmannes
But there you go.

03:21.73
Jenna
So at the time when I came up with the name I was like well I will I'll always be leaving from Montreal right? So it was kind of like that's where I got the y you well from and like never roaming alone so just put that all together and it just worked.

03:32.24
smacey
Wow.

03:34.70
aaronmannes
Um, yeah.

03:37.73
aaronmannes
Um, yeah, it does work does work it it. It took me took 2 years to really sound it out and be like wow you'll never roam alone that happened live folks.

03:39.33
smacey
Wow True creator here. Okay, very clever, very clever.

03:41.44
Jenna
Oh.

03:50.87
smacey
Um, it was worth the wait. It was worth the wait. So how'd you 2 meet Aaron and what was your plan for an episode when you reached out to her.

03:51.82
Jenna
Yeah, that.

03:55.15
aaronmannes
I I guess on clubhouse. Yeah so I guess Jenna reminded me that it was clubhouse back in the day we bring that app up every once in a while that that hot burn of an app. What's it now threads is that the new thing that was up and ah.

04:09.76
Jenna
Have.

04:13.42
aaronmannes
Hot for about a week and now no one's talking about it my my my theory on all these things is. It's a it's a brand new dopamine rush and they did it really well with like your followers will come over with you. So ah, a first time in a while we're like.

04:14.70
Jenna
Now.

04:28.80
Jenna
Um.

04:31.51
aaronmannes
I got a thousand followers today like threads is awesome. It's the new thing and then you realize it's the like no one's liking or commenting on post. It's the same exact thing. It's like this feed the ego following like everyone's following me sort of new app. Ah, that that shiny new app that new smell of the new app. It's like so fancy and you have to get on it because it's so great and you get all the followers but I digress at digress we met on clubhouse ah the relationship ah continued. We talked every once in a while. It's been about a couple years. We'd we'd check in. Feel like we have like spontaneous ah meaningful conversations once in a while with like ah you know hey deep questions. Where's this place or like tell me everything you know about this or do you have any experience with this and then it would go like radio silent for however, long. But recently we started a chat group.

05:11.73
Jenna
Okay, so.

05:28.94
aaronmannes
Um, with a bunch of cabin shooters in the area people that I know um and throughout the group people were adding other people. So It's about 20 of us at this point that shoot cabins in the area or Airbnbs or and any rental properties really. And the idea was to kind of come together as a group to just get a feel of hey what's everyone's experience because we're not really competing against each other. We should be helping each other and not hurting each other if someone's charging. This amount of money and we're doing it for free. We're hurting both of ourselves really um and just kind of trying to come to an understanding of you know what? the culture is and what everyone's trying to do and what their expectations are um and then slowly. Think we're going to take this and try to create culture and maybe um, ah just sort of consistent even paperwork or or writings or documents where people can share and use things and feel comfortable going to. Ah, Airbnbs or rentals or hotels and say like no this is like kind of standard this is industry standard I'm not going to do it for free. Um and and kind of just have that sort of strength in Numbers. So That's where we kind of reconnected. She's helped a lot.

06:52.33
aaronmannes
Ah, in the group and shared a bunch of her stuff. Ah um, her and is your it's your boyfriend Jana Jana ah kind of worked together as a team as a business. Um.

06:57.43
Jenna
Yes, Donna yeah.

07:06.31
aaronmannes
And they have a really organized way of marketing themselves and and showing like this is the value. This is what we're going to do this is how we can help you. This is why it's important to do so um and I thought it was some of the most organized and well put together. Stuff you got to see at Seth some of her pixie set stuff which was new to me. Um, that's ah, that's a program online that you can use. Um, and yeah, so that's that's where it is and I think that's kind of where I wanted to take this conversation where.

07:27.14
smacey
A.

07:41.93
aaronmannes
I was saying earlier I feel like there's this moment where we're artists maybe to start right? like the creative field give it give or take like you you want to take a photo you want to make it nice for yourself. It's pleasing to you. Ah, it serves a purpose in terms of a memory or an emotion. Whatever it is. Ah, and there comes a point where people might want to start using that photography to make money for themselves whether it's marketing or have you promote something for them and there's this shift that can be a little bit confusing and uncomfortable where you have to turn the camera. And sort of market yourself and and make the art about yourself and who you are as an artist which is a ah definite switch from just taking the picture of the product or the landscape or even yourself for your friends and family. Um, so I think that shift is an important one and one that. Is somewhat hard to embrace for everyone and maybe a little bit uncomfortable. Um, and I felt like we can get into some of that so I'm longwinded I think I was nervous because now the button was recorded where I did it in like 3 minutes before really succinct and now I just really talked for I'm sorry everyone left sorry Janna.

08:56.83
Jenna
So.

08:58.62
aaronmannes
Everyone just hung up on the podcast they got bored. There's There's the one out there.

09:02.10
smacey
No, that was beautifully said that was beautifully said and I want to know if Jenna agrees with what you're saying or has any more to add and and um, maybe if there was a moment where you realized okay I need to be more than just a creative artist I need to. Like Aaron said find a way to market myself or integrate myself into things that I'm selling into products and services that I'm selling. How am I going to do that I'm interested to hear the creative journey from I started photography with my camera just because I love it. It's fun being creative to okay I need to take this to the next level. And figure out how I can set myself apart from the billions of people on this app that are you know, essentially photographers. So I guess and and take that that journey to present days so I'm being long-winded now. But I'm interested to hear that and your thoughts on what Aaron just said. Okay.

09:32.91
Jenna
Puff.

09:44.80
Jenna
Full. Yeah, so if we rewind I'm actually a registered sorry license veterinary technician. So I've been working with animals for the last ten years so that's my number 1 true love and passion. And it was back in 17 where I start. Um I went to Hawaii actually and that's where I bought my first camera I bought the Sony a 6000 that was my first camera had no idea what I was doing I went to Hawaii and we all know that's how it starts right? And then I realized I loved traveling. Love taking pictures and then from there. Um, it was mainly like I'd be on Instagram and I would just like post what I was doing and I'd have people that I knew that would come and ask me like oh like where'd you go how long do you stay for like oh this cabin here like I'd like to go here so I was like oh like maybe I would like to start blogging. So I started a website so I did everything from scratch like just taught myself everything and then next you know you'll never own alone was the name change because I use my personal account and then everything from there was like self-op moving forward and.

11:03.84
Jenna
I always had a huge like love for cabins and that's where I kind of like I started getting known here in Quebec for that like shooting cabins and then I started going like more like worldwide like working with hotels working with tourism and then just like building up from there.

11:20.90
smacey
Let me interrupt you there. How did you get involved with tourism boards because that is a number you know that's a big question people ask a lot. They don't know how to get their foot in the door and I'm not asking to give away the secret sauce. You know some of that's proprietary I understand but what would your advice be to somebody who's who's thinking you know I have a decent following I I have the confidence to you know.

11:22.81
Jenna
So.

11:40.20
smacey
Ah, pitch my my service. My video service or my photo service or whatever it is to you know a big organization. What would your advice be to that person of where to begin how did it? How did it go for you.

11:42.80
Jenna
What up.

11:50.55
Jenna
Who honestly well for me. The first time I was actually reached out to which I was pretty surprised. It's um's called ga and it's a gas busy. It's like a region here in Quebec and they had reached out in a conjunction with um I don't know if you know the brand. Neck Mountain equipment yeah exactly so it was like ah where they were like were merged together and they had kind of reached out so it was like a taste. Um, and yeah, they came in like it was a small budget but at the time like for the first time it was pretty like.

12:10.27
smacey
Yep Mountain equipment cooperate.

12:25.45
Jenna
Interesting like they covered like everything for four days and they paid and then from there. Um I just started sending emails I guess like because I had now like I had worked with the gas busy tourism so I was like oh like let me try another place here in Quebec. And then I got a second one and then after that. Um, okay so hold up let me rephrase? Um, so now what we're doing. So when I started. You'll never own loan I was with someone else I started it more of like um as a travel couple so like our marketing was very different so you know at at 1 point like it was really big like the whole like travel couple like I don't know what to call it but it was it was big. Yeah, so we were.

13:11.79
smacey
I would call it that. Yeah.

13:17.47
Jenna
It was more like that we were going in as a travel couple. So um and now with Jana we went in completely different because back then I wasn't we I wasn't doing like offering video Jana and as a team I come in as like the creative director photographer with the influencing and he's like full on like the the filmmaker. So.

13:25.84
aaronmannes
Are.

13:37.30
Jenna
Joining forces. We were like the like a 1 ne-stop shop and that's how we started to like build up on that and we're like okay so how can we market ourselves and because we were like working on our new websites. We're like how do we showcase our portfolio and that's where jona came up with like the genius idea which Aaron you saw with our cabin stuff.

13:41.15
aaronmannes
Um.

13:56.36
Jenna
Like how to place everything just on like one landing page which is where we have like the video banner plane and we have like um both of our pictures where it says like the team like meet the team little description of us. We we put our metrics so we put like our media kits.

13:57.62
aaronmannes
Are.

14:12.93
Jenna
And then underneath that we have you know like brands that we've worked with we have um you know like our like reels and photos to show that like we can offer everything and then like branded video in like long run format. Um, and then we just started like pitching with that we would. You know, kind of just like reach out to tourisms and be like hey you know we like we specialize working with luxury um tours and and tourisms and kind of just went from there and started working so I don't know if that really.

14:46.52
smacey
Now Are you going into those cold pitches with a sort of leaving the door open being vague allowing their response to come up with the ideas for you. You know, coming up with. Content ideas for you to create or are you going in with a specific idea a specific narrative that you're pitching doing some of the heavy work and heavy creative thinking before you you know, even get there.

15:13.60
Jenna
Yeah, so that was a thing that we had battled out a little bit um because we used to do pitch decks and they're very long and consuming right? like because you then yeah, you have to do a bit of like obviously the research right and see like. You know you go on and you see like okay does their website like what can they benefit from pretty much you have to find you have to solve a problem for them right? So is it. You know is their banner outdated like is it photo and we all know now like video is is high up there. So it's like maybe they can change that. Photo banner to a video banner now that showcases more like pulls people in is it social media that they're looking for so we spent a lot of time and energy using canva and like coming up with specific pitches for each for example brand for tourism and then. It was just felt so like it. It was just exhausting when you would get the know where you would get ghosted and we're like there there has to be a different way I need to like speed up the process. We can't be spending so much time creating something so specific because it's a fifty fifty right so we're like let's go in a little bit more like with the door open where it's like hey this is who we are like a brief introduction. We would just be like hey this is who we are. We're a team. This is what we can do here's our portfolio. We'd love to hop on a call and that was a game changer trying to get them on a call.

16:37.70
Jenna
I Try to avoid going through the back and forth email because it's just so time consuming and it's just so much easier to get on the phone with them and like that too took me out of my comfort zone like it pushed me out of my comfort zone because I was like oh my God like you know getting on phone calls. Um, But. We did a lot of that this year and it's definitely a game changer.

17:01.62
aaronmannes
That's true. That's ah, that's a great tactic and point I mean the emails everyone I mean my email personally is I've had it for a long time and I get so much spam and junk like there's there's just times I miss.

17:14.12
Jenna
Is my.

17:15.00
aaronmannes
Important things like yeah and people that live in ah or work in a business and and they're getting pitches all the time nonstop so you can't take it personally but sometimes it just like they might like you for a second and then get busy and then it's one ah hundred emails down the. Thing. But if they put ah a time in the calendar if they answer that much and put a time in the calendar and they like you and they want to have a call then it's set up and it's it's going to pop up and they have to get on a call and and they also you're selling your personality and you. Even your style your look whatever like whatever it is that you you can sell and and give attributes towards you're you're doing on a phone call or a Zoom call. Um, and I think that's ah, that's a great way. The but the back and forth emails. it's it's tough you can't read tone. You can get.

18:01.22
Jenna
Yeah.

18:04.00
aaronmannes
Ghost said you just can't figure it out versus looking someone in the face.

18:07.38
Jenna
Exactly So we definitely. It was definitely a game changer because yeah, like once you get on the phone with them. You know it's the same thing like you know what? we just did right like a little introduction like tell me about yourself. How did you get started and then you know like then they see like oh you guys actually are.

18:20.94
aaronmannes
Um.

18:25.92
Jenna
Team and like you offer everything. So if we want longer format video for example for Youtube or for our website banner. We have that oh but we want Instagram reels tiktok. Well we got that as well. You need influencing you want to be tagged and doing all that stuff when we are there then yeah, so that was um. Definitely something that like really pulled in their interest and and then you just let them do the talking basically like that's what something I realize is that once you get on the phone with them. They end up talking more which is great because that's what you want you want to hear what they're lacking so half the time we.

18:53.81
aaronmannes
Um.

19:03.19
aaronmannes
Um.

19:05.24
Jenna
Bareily did the talking. It's like we would be like okay this is who we are what we do. We would love to you know, help you like achieve what what you need and then next thing you know they're telling us. Yeah, like we do need more video. This is our target audience and then what's a great selling tactic too is that when we offer. You know, like the longer format video um like horizontal for banners and whatnot then we can also like cut that up and then be like oh well then you'll get social media for that because we can turn those into real so it just makes them like realize like oh yeah, Okay, and then you know.

19:40.66
aaronmannes
Yeah, yeah for sure. So yeah, Seth this was on our call Seth interrupts me when we're pitching and he gets mad because I I say we're a traveling couple and he is like no, we're a team we have to change the lingo.

19:41.45
smacey
I Like what you said a bit. Oh.

19:51.86
Jenna
Um.

19:59.92
aaronmannes
Like traveling couple was five years ago that was cool back then I'm like oh I'm so bad I'm so bad at social media I don't know what's anything's called is it a Tiktok is it a real. Is it a real talk is it Tackeys I don't know ah and he always corrects me.

20:04.23
Jenna
Um.

20:13.80
Jenna
Um, finish it you ah.

20:13.11
smacey
Your humor is one of a kind man.

20:19.14
aaronmannes
Yeah, always corrects me what are you going to say so.

20:21.29
smacey
I was I'll be brief I was just going to say you know it's a great point that um yeah I think the phrase was let let them do the talking. It's amazing. How much of a good impression speaking glass leaves on people I've found that time and time again.

20:37.48
aaronmannes
Um, move.

20:37.58
smacey
I think there's an urge to fill silence with your own voice and to me that just portrays that you're kind of a runaway train and you're you're filling space with with talking and because you're almost nervous or insecure of of the the silence or there being nothing and also nobody walks away from a conversation. Saying oh that person was terrible to speak with when all they've done is when when they've done most of the talking you know what I'm saying so the other thing too is I mean it's you know, psychology though the 1 asking the questions is in charge of the conversation I truly believe that if you're the one you know prying and digging and asking what somebody wants and you're.

21:01.93
Jenna
Of who.

21:02.94
aaronmannes
I.

21:16.71
smacey
Even in just a casual conversation if you really wanted to you know break down like I hate saying this but ah, you know like almost like a power dynamic of who is in control of a conversation. It's the one who's asking the questions I mean that's that's important to take note of but what I was going to ask before you actually just answered it. Was I was going to ask you? You know? What do you think it is about you and you know your your content creation duo that is the is the you know, final selling point to any organization that you're pitching I think you answered it when you said that you're a 1 ne-stop shop I Think that's really important because. Now Whoever you're you know pitching to work with they they understand that they don't need to go elsewhere for everything they can get everything they need should they need it in one Space. So I think that was important that you mentioned the the one-stop shop concept.

22:07.42
Jenna
Um, yeah, that's that's exactly it because we would like say we went in with like I know we let them do the talking but say we had like an idea for ourself like okay like we think they need this and in the end they come around and they speak to their team and they realize well they need that. Now. It's like they don't need to go anywhere else. We can offer it all which was sometimes well most of the time difficult to relay that through email right? because you don't want to be writing long paragraphs and being like oh well we can. So it's just it's just so much easier to get them on the phone and I know that during like certain. Times of the year it's just a lot harder to get them on the call. But um, when you do get them on the call. It's definitely a game a game changer I know I keep saying that and then even like for bringing a budget because it's like you're in it and then it's like oh you just you bring it, you bring it in right away. It's like you know we're we're. Taking care of it all on one call and then moving forward from there. So um, definitely facilitates things.

23:05.96
aaronmannes
Yeah, and that's that's a good point and an interesting point too because through you know past experience and just feeling out the game if you will I've gone too many emails where it's like you're planning the whole thing and then you're like oh my God We haven't talked about money.

23:21.96
Jenna
I have.

23:23.99
aaronmannes
Or any exchange like what? Ah what is this? What am I promising for and then it's like hey not to be awkward, but ah, what are you paying me, you know and it's and then like oh I didn't know.

23:29.37
Jenna
I.

23:38.57
aaronmannes
You know and then it's like oh my I Just wasted hours and hours and hours of time and time as money. Um, so I think getting into that quickly is you know it's kind of like you. You don't want to you don't want to ruffle the feathers too much where you're like I might lose this opportunity or scare them away. But. On the other hand scare them away fast because if they don't want to pay you probably don't want to really be doing it or planning for it for so long because you're you're just spending time where you could be looking for other companies and reaching out to other people.

24:04.62
Jenna
You have.

24:13.74
aaronmannes
Versus like hey this is our budget. This is how we do it. It costs a lot It's a lot of work I just did a cabin shoe and I said in our group I was laughing while I was setting up a shot for Seth it was like ° in humid. Ah. I'm setting up a shot really for like myself and I'm like this is a shot they may or may not use I know I'm going to like it. Ah but it had props. It had electric guitar an amp I brought my own lighting I set up chairs. The the porch looked exactly like a stage and I was like I want to kind of create like this rock and roll.

24:37.27
Jenna
Um, proof.

24:46.79
aaronmannes
Scene and I'm like I'm doing all this for 1 shot like there's just so much work. Ah, but you don't want to plan all that stuff without like that conversation of of what you're doing and and what's happening. So I think that's a great point to get to that point and don't be scared of that point very quickly.

24:56.97
Jenna
Yeah.

25:05.70
aaronmannes
You know, like get get there rip the band-aid off.

25:06.17
Jenna
Yeah, so.

25:13.97
aaronmannes
With that said, um, you mentioned your portfolio and getting on to Pixie set I Just want to mention that quickly because I think it's a yeah exactly. So I'm going to stop talking because you know it better than I do um and and we'll we'll leave a link to your.

25:20.29
smacey
Um, yeah, what is that I've never heard of that do I live under a rock or.

25:23.42
Jenna
Yes, yes.

25:31.39
aaronmannes
Website essentially is what it is but it's a cool sort of website for photographers and especially photographers that have any sort of clients or portfolio needs and I'll let Jenna explain it.

25:43.65
Jenna
All right? So actually I can't take all the credit for it. Chana is the one who introduced me to it because before this I um wasn't using pixie sets when we were not together. So it's a great. Ah, website to use in terms of placing a gallery. It's like it's basically a gallery and so you put your work there. So for example, when we work with our cabin clients we for um, say we go in and like normally we shoot 20 photos. That's what we're we're giving. Um, we then let them know that once we're done to shoot and we finish editing everything we will create a gallery on pixie set. We obviously always shoot more than 20 photos and then we create this beautiful gallery for them with sometimes 40 to 60 photos. And then it allows them to go in and make their selections in the beginning I would choose what I thought I like the most right and I would just hand them over to the client. It's like here's your 20 photos. That's it. That's all so I didn't have the mindset of like upselling I was not into that. And then meeting Jana and working together. That's where he taught me where he's like well if you present a gallery. He's like the possibility of upselling is there because now they're seeing more and you know just the like cur. It's almost like curating it like you know like with Instagram like we cut you.

27:05.80
Jenna
You put everything nicely. So It's like visually aesthetic and then they can go in and they can favor. It. So as soon as they favorite their their pictures it create like they put in their email and it creates like a favorite folder that both now myself and the client can access. And then next thing you know they're coming back to us and they're like Wow like we selected 40 photos and I don't think we can select anything less so like how much do you charge for an extra 20 and the next thing you know you're walking away with you know then buying 20 extra Photos. So I'm definitely also a huge game changer.

27:34.56
smacey
Ah, yeah.

27:39.40
Jenna
And we've been doing that for the last year and a half and we have always been able to upsell.

27:46.10
aaronmannes
Um, yeah, that's amazing. So let me just make sure I have this right? and maybe you can use it in 2 different ways. So if you promise 20 photos let's say and you go through you you call your photos that you take and there's 50 that you starred that you really like and you could edit.

27:54.58
Jenna
Um, ah.

28:03.27
aaronmannes
Now Could you use it in the way of like here are the 50 here are the 50 raws. Let me give you an example of a raw versus an edited photo like don't don't be alarmed by the raw which which one should I spend my time editing and save that time or do you always edit all 50 or 45 of them. And throw them in there completely done and that kind of gets them excited like oh I How can I pick the twenty like I want all of these.

28:22.36
Jenna
And that.

28:29.26
Jenna
Yeah, um I don't do the whole raw thing. Um I've just I've been doing cabins for so long I have like my presets and I know like based on you know if we go to some places like we have some clients where they have more of like that.

28:37.00
aaronmannes
Are.

28:44.96
Jenna
Minimal Ah minimal look ah white bright you know? Um, so it's like I have presets for that other cabinets that have more of like that log look deeper. You know like like darker vibes. So we're very very like quick at editing So it's just easy end to draw and even with.

28:51.37
aaronmannes
Um.

28:58.64
aaronmannes
Are yeah.

29:03.27
Jenna
Drone photography a huge huge sellinglling point as well like just with you know and then also Jana's very good at doing. He's into like astro and like night photography so that's another thing that like really like we're able to upsell because. Presenting their cabins like with all the lights on and the stars and all that and they're like oh my god and like next thing you know it's so crazy because sometimes they end up because we also shoot horizontal and vertical. So sometimes they'll choose like the same photo but just like in horizontal and vertical and we're like well it's the same photo and also sometimes you know like if it's a good client that it's reoccurring. We'll just like.

29:38.35
aaronmannes
Um, yeah.

29:38.73
Jenna
Call it like 1 You know it's you know, but um, we always edit and we present the gallery like that.

29:46.57
aaronmannes
Yeah, it's really, that's really smart and that's a very cool tool I don't know if I'm sure there's other things like it. But that website is I got to dig into it a bit more Um, but.

29:52.38
Jenna
Um, enough.

29:57.16
Jenna
It's super. It's super easy to use like it's very user friendly. You just have to make sure like there is like um I know people I probably should but I guess I have too much trust in my clients I don't watermark because technically if they really wanted. They could like screenshot but I've.

29:59.74
aaronmannes
Um, yeah.

30:13.66
Jenna
I've been very lucky knock on wood that no one's ever done that so but there is like a button that you can Toggle because you could they could download right away from from the gallery. So You just have to make sure you turn that off and then when you are ready you could send them like ah they have like a code that it'll like. Generate and then you send it to them and then they're able to download the final twenty that they pick I personally like to just send it through we transfer once they make their selections I go back in I Do my final touches ah touch up and then I just send through we transfer.

30:47.58
aaronmannes
Yeah, it's very cool Seth I could see you lighting up with like oh ooh this would work nicely for XY and z um.

30:53.36
smacey
Well I think people are always trying to figure out how to upsell and also at the same time people are nervous to ask for more money I'm not advocating for not stepping out of your comfort zone but it definitely sounds like and a little intricate way to. I Mean if you've done an amazing job to put a ton of photos into this set and obviously they're going to want more and so you just basically get the upsell without ever asking I think that's quite clever.

31:18.82
Jenna
Yeah, exactly. That's exactly like we. It's all mentioned and like our we have like we created we're in the process now of actually making because now we go under the cabin whisper That's our that's our brand. Um, so Jana is in the process of finishing the entire website. So Aaron what you saw is just ascend like a it's like a landing page and then we direct it to canva and that's like the 1 ne-stop shop where we show like the photography and everything's written there that will send you a gallery and then we write like each additional photo cost this much and then we also tell them like sometimes they'll come back and they'll be like oh we want like 8 and we're like oh well if you take 10 we'll drop like each photo will now instead of it being For example I don't know like $80 a photo. It'll be 75 so you're saving some money and then they're like okay and they just take 10 extra just little things like that you know, um.

32:05.79
smacey
Right.

32:11.67
smacey
Yeah, and shout to canva I use that every single day that is my favorite subscription of anything that I am subscribed to is that and Jasper Ai Canva and Jasper Ai is literally open on my tabs.

32:11.90
aaronmannes
Yeah, and it's a it's good.

32:11.97
Jenna
Makes a world of a difference.

32:22.83
Jenna
Oh.

32:24.94
aaronmannes
Um, yeah, but that's ah, it's a great way to have. It's a great thing to think about strategy in terms of upselling. Um.

32:28.60
smacey
Every single day. It's nice hearing you say canva.

32:29.47
Jenna
Yeah.

32:39.90
aaronmannes
And and again it's that transfer and mindset from just artist to businessperson and I think every artist whether it's music or photography or painting like you have to go you have to have a little bit of that sort of cutthroat a little bit cutthroat sort of personality of like.

32:45.20
Jenna
How.

32:59.63
aaronmannes
You paid for twenty I know I did forty and they're done and what am I going to do with them. But that's what we agreed on like maybe I give you 22 because I want to I want to overdeliver a little bit but I'm not just going to throw in everything I'm going to this is like my business. This is my my job too.

33:18.63
Jenna
Ah.

33:19.46
aaronmannes
Um, and and if I give you 40 photos like you don't need me again for a long long time right? So like you you have to pay for the content. You have to pay for what it is and I think it's it's sometimes too easy to.

33:26.37
Jenna
Um, we true.

33:36.48
aaronmannes
Again and Seth we've talked about this ah where it's like we love our own personal art and we want people to love it and be so impressed with us. So if we said 20 and I give you forty I'm going to get that email that's like wow.

33:45.33
Jenna
Have.

33:53.92
aaronmannes
You're amazing. Thank you so much and that's going to feel good but at the same time like I have to allow that to go away and say we said 20 like that is what we agreed on I need to either get better at budgeting my time and.

34:02.88
Jenna
Not.

34:10.41
aaronmannes
And taking 20 photos that I'm proud of versus 100 and feeling like I need to edit them all or I need to just you know draw the line and say like hey like yeah if you want those extra ones I don't have to travel again. It's great. It's going to be a little bit cheaper but it's still a package.

34:14.30
Jenna
Yeah.

34:27.77
Jenna
Um, well the goal with Pixie set in the beginning I don't think like it was initially for upselling I think that like it was in the back end. But I think what we really liked is.

34:28.29
aaronmannes
You know.

34:40.23
Jenna
Um, allowing our clients to have the option to pick what spoke to them because we're artists right? So it's interesting sometimes because the selections they'll make I mean it is our own work. We love our work but sometimes I'm just there and I'm like wait they chose that over that like how you know, but.

34:42.44
aaronmannes
Move.

34:57.97
aaronmannes
Yeah.

34:58.60
Jenna
Remember, It's like what it's what's to them. It's their space. It's their their cabin that they put their heart and soul into designing it and decorating it. So Maybe that photo speaks more to them than that's so I guess that's where it came from where it's like I want my client to feel like they're part of the the process as Well. And also then the upselling comes to from a lot of the times we have clients that it's like a brand new property so they need real estate so they'll ask for real estate and Lifestyle which is real estate in itself If you have 4 bedrooms you have your kitchen you have your deck you have your hot tub. The amenities and all that stuff then you want drone shots. You're definitely going over 20 and I've had some clients where they're already aware of that they're like they do like the quick math and they're like ooh it's going to be more than 20 and we're like yeah but we'll make you like a ah special package and they're like okay so as long as there's that open communication and everything is written. There. Shouldn't have an issue.

35:54.24
aaronmannes
Um, yeah, um, moving forward just I'm curious. So Jonas is a videographer first or photographer first.

36:09.15
Jenna
Yeah, he does. Um I would say he's like fifty fifty but he definitely leans more into the the video like when we're working together. He's ah tapped into the video.

36:11.66
aaronmannes
And we yeah and we.

36:22.75
aaronmannes
And it's nice and we've had a couple of um, couple like team members that work together. Um I don't know 3 by now I think and it's been interesting to hear both sides sometimes we've had both guests on.

36:29.43
Jenna
Um, ah.

36:37.24
aaronmannes
At different times and hear like both angles of the business and and where everyone's strengths are in um so video and photography That's a clear one but where else are there strengths that are divided where you're like he is really good at that and he might say you are really good at that.

36:51.25
Jenna
About.

36:53.82
aaronmannes
In terms of I mean there's pitching there's editing there's you know the organization of Files like all that stuff working together. Um have you melded into one sort of this is the way we got to do things or is it do each have your own things.

37:10.32
aaronmannes
Give me give me some of that juice.

37:11.73
Jenna
Wow! So in the beginning we were going a little head to head because um I think I mean unless you know someone that really loves pitching because it it ain't us like we definitely It's it's time consuming. it's it's Daunting um so in the beginning we were butting heads because um, we both have like our strengths like he he taught me a lot in like in in terms of like selling. Um I'm really good at writing but so is he so but I'm also an overthinker. So I'll write something and then I'll keep going back to it and I need to like um I need to perfect it I'm like oh does it sound good does it sound too much. Are we going in too strong like and he would be like you need to stop like you're wasting too much time. So at some point yeah, we had to like have a meeting between us and yeah because we're both artists at the end of the day so we both.

38:01.35
aaronmannes
Um, ah.

38:07.75
Jenna
Want to be creating and we both want to be editing and advancing our skills. We both don't want to be doing the admin work so we had to like come in and divide the tasks. Um, so I took on a little bit more of the admin stuff. But. Recently we it's been ah maybe a year now we started using the app called millanote I don't know if you've heard of it. No, but you should take Mill a note. So MIL a note. Um.

38:29.83
smacey
No no, what's it called all right.

38:34.24
aaronmannes
Um.

38:41.46
Jenna
I Love this I Keeps using this word, but it's also a game changer. Um I use Millano for everything like all our um like for our to-do list our projects with our clients. We send our proposals through there as well.

38:45.20
smacey
Um, title of the episode. It's a game changer.

38:48.10
aaronmannes
Um, game changer.

39:01.12
Jenna
And it's cool cause you could send them like um like a view link and they could see and they can go through it. They could leave notes. Um, it's amazing and I work like when we work with other creators. We can all be on the same like board because there's boards and then we like. Co-create in there and like we make like shot lists and like who we're reaching out to and it's it's amazing. So John and I started using that this year and so I'm the organizer I like that I like the to do list I need to visually like check things off. Um so he's better at. When we get on calls together. Um, he takes more of the lead. He's a little bit like stronger in going in for the budget stuff for the money stuff just a little bit like oh you know? Um, so he he definitely plays a huge role in that um and was selling video. Obviously. So what else What other roles are there. Um editing I think comes out that the same thing because like when we come back from a project. He'll go into editing all video I go into editing all the photos so we can divide that work. Um, speaking with clients. It's it's a good mix because some some clients like.

40:09.00
aaronmannes
Um.

40:15.40
Jenna
Just have more the lead with them I created more of like ah a bond with them. So like I take the lead and he's just like Cc to everything and then there's some clients that he takes care of like that which is also nice so that we can like divide that up. Um.

40:29.74
aaronmannes
You guys get home from a trip who is done editing and here's the here's the folder I'm done with my who's first and now he's got a video and ah god knows video is somewhat annoying.

40:37.54
Jenna
Um, depend. Yeah yes, um, probably probably me. Um I feel like it's a bit quicker for photos depending how many photos there there needs to be and then the video it depends like.

40:48.15
aaronmannes
Woo.

40:54.75
Jenna
What I can help is there eventually I would like to start going in and cutting up and like picking scenes with him but I'll help like with music selection and then if he needs like my input on like you know like the creative direction of it. But um, it's tough to say it depends What we're like what.

41:09.40
aaronmannes
Yeah, now in a relationship I imagine it's very important to be able to turn off work and and say like all right. It's six p M like don't don't talk about.

41:11.95
Jenna
Project was and what the deliverables were.

41:18.42
Jenna
And.

41:24.71
Jenna
And hopefully.

41:26.69
aaronmannes
Talk about this. We have to focus on something else. Otherwise it all becomes like a ah work sort of thing that that's all you're doing now I Guess that's my opinion I don't know what you do or what is better or worse or if there is anything but I'm just curious is there are there strong boundaries in terms of like. And we have a relationship Also that's separate than just filming and creating content.

41:53.20
Jenna
Interesting that you bring that up. But yeah, that was also something that we dove into this year because um, at one point yeah, we did lose ourselves like there were no boundaries Jana is a night owl he loves to get super creative at night. Um, which is. Ah, good thing because during the day there are a lot of distractions emails coming in clients are calling. You need to eat family members because they know like that's another thing like friends and family like they know we're home because we're working from home. But we're working right? but they'll call and like we'll take it so it interrupts.

42:21.86
aaronmannes
Um.

42:24.84
Jenna
Um, so yeah, we definitely had to have that big conversation where it's like okay we need we need to like make clear boundaries of when we talk about work or when we stop work and when we are actually in a relationship and not colleagues.

42:36.99
aaronmannes
Um, yeah.

42:40.32
aaronmannes
Are.

42:42.35
Jenna
So it definitely it definitely um, the lines get skewed sometimes where we just really have to like snap each other out of it because yeah nisino you're like at the dinner table and you're talking about work but it comes. It's so natural right? and it's like we love what we do as well and like we're traveling and that's where it all gets mixed up too because we like to be outdoors in nature. Love going to cabins and sometimes it's like that's where it gets like mixed up because we're working and we forget to spend quality time because it's like you know you said it before like just to set up 1 scene and now it's not like we're just going there to do photo. We're going there to do. The influencing they want giveaways. They want us to post stories. So we're doing that then we're going in. We're setting up scenes for photo then we got to do it for video and then it gets tonight and then he's like oh I'm gonna shoot like all the night stuff or you're like it does it ever end. You know so you.

43:23.75
aaronmannes
Um, yeah.

43:35.60
aaronmannes
Yeah, absolutely I think even as like ah ah, a single shooter out at a cabin. It's hard to turn it off and be like like chill dude for a minute like enjoy this meal without being like oh I could I could go get this photo like right now.

43:52.79
Jenna
Um, yeah, create this.

43:52.87
aaronmannes
Like yeah, um, even on my last day at the cabin it was pouring in the morning and I was like thank god like I I don't have to get up for sunrise like I already got 3 like I don't I didn't not need to wake up. Um, and. But then it just starts going and you have to catch yourself. You're like ooh I could get some like really moody like rain stuff right now like it's like oh my god like just stop stop? Um so I can imagine like 2 people and then trying to also enjoy each other's company in the in the space and the time and.

44:12.73
Jenna
We have.

44:23.24
Jenna
Okay.

44:27.60
aaronmannes
And give yourself some reprieve from working. Um, it's got to be just a little bit of a dance and I'm I'm sure you give each other grace and ah yeah, just like you said snap each other out of it maybe like hey um, we're supposed to be eating dinner now we said we're going to like take an hour off put the camera down or put the computer away like let's chill for a bit.

44:43.61
Jenna
Now.

44:46.81
aaronmannes
Think that is important and important for even people not in a relationship to be able to do that themselves. Yeah to be able to do that themselves and and turn off the the brain from like you know, just cons and that that even goes back to like what did we? What did we agree on you know 20 photos. Okay.

44:49.10
smacey
I was just going to say that.

45:06.42
aaronmannes
You're you're good bud like you can stop now you can stop. You don't have to like keep going forever. You know until you're burnt out and absolutely hate it. No I'm not I'm not I'm talking to myself mainly ah and then I have those like laughing moments where I'm like.

45:07.29
Jenna
The.

45:14.94
smacey
Um, he's not talking to me for everybody concerned.

45:17.89
Jenna
Um.

45:24.27
aaronmannes
Oh that'll be another good set like here's 5 more photos and every time you do like 5 more photos that's work to take the photo or do the video but then I'm laughing because I'm like yeah times going home and like editing these 5 on top of the other five that I wanted to do real quick on top of the other five. So it's it's just a compounding. Ah, like time suck if you don't have the boundaries and like the self-care to be like hey like take freaking 20 minutes to enjoy this coffee and sandwich like you don't have to like get up in the middle of it and and take another photo. So. Ah, yeah, good good for you guys for like talking it out and and feeling that out and um and creating those boundaries I feel like that must be important for a good relationship working and personal.

46:06.40
Jenna
Um I was good. Yes.

46:15.82
smacey
Where do my questions go I had a list of questions gone.

46:20.57
aaronmannes
While you're looking is your internet skipping or is it just me. Are you guys good is it pretty so it's pretty smooth Jenna all right I might reconnect while you're looking for your questions just real quick.

46:25.74
smacey
Um, me I'm good. Okay, no, don't zoom out. Don't get out or don't don't yeah, don't don't ruin things.

46:28.10
Jenna
Yeah, and smooth.

46:36.35
aaronmannes
Will ruin things. Okay, how old all right never mind all I'll stay I'll say guys. Thanks! That was a test to see if you wanted me to leave.

46:40.95
smacey
Otherwise friends off.

46:46.62
smacey
Ah, yeah I Want to get some more into personal branding. You know, like the moment you realized I got to incorporate myself into what I'm creating Beyond just like yeah I'm a great photographer but so is everyone else, you know to really take this up to next.

46:47.44
Jenna
Um.

47:02.23
smacey
To another level I got to somehow add some personality when did that start? Well first of all, did that thought occur and if so when was the moment you realize okay I need to flip the camera around I need to be. Part of the scene or my person I needs to be part of what I'm selling beyond just you know taking great photos so question makes sense.

47:23.74
Jenna
Um, like are you yes maybe like like being more you mean like like talking to the camera talking to my community. Are you like.

47:34.19
smacey
Well and just and like you're in a lot of your photos and I think that's part of your success is that you know you've you've made a personal brand out of photography as opposed to being just someone who takes photos and I'm curious to know when that.

47:49.80
Jenna
Um I.

47:53.80
smacey
Moment was that you realized that could be a good idea to start including that more into my photography or if that's something you've always done just because you wanted to or naturally.

47:57.87
Jenna
It was something that I always did from I think because I always started off like with my Ex We start off as a travel couple like we were yeah stems from that So which was.

48:10.85
smacey
Right? So it stems from that.

48:17.62
Jenna
Really good too because I guess it took time for me to realize that like I was doing creative direction from the very beginning because we we forget about that like we wear so many hats and we forget about it and because I would when I was with my ex. He wasn't into like the photography stuff but he was like more doing the blogging and everything but you know we were like a duo So All those pictures that we've ever taken. It was myself that would set up the scene right? So I would visualize it and I'd be like okay like we're gonna go stand there. And then you know I would place him set the Tripod and then like run into the shot right? So that takes time and energy and and from there. It's like that. That's when I started to realize like okay yeah, like I wear more than than one happened it took time to realize that because you're just you're just going going with it. Um, So yeah I think from just the very beginning I've always like it was always a mix.. There would be like the landscape there would be you know a subject putting myself in it. You know? Um, so from the very beginning. It's been like that.

49:25.11
smacey
Makes sense.

49:30.30
aaronmannes
Yeah, and I mean with that it maybe came more naturally and and that's kind of what we were talking about is that that switch where you have to market yourself and and create as much of a 1 ne-stop shop as you can I think that's ah, that's a good lesson.

49:35.74
Jenna
Um.

49:46.93
aaronmannes
And can be a game changer to use the phrase. Um, if you can market yourself as more than you know? ah a photographer or just not just but a photographer or just video or I just model or I just write behind the scenes like if you can say I.

49:57.84
Jenna
Yeah, oh.

50:05.98
aaronmannes
I have a drone I have a 3 six E cam I have a gopro that goes underwater I do video I do reels I do ah photography here's my portfolio here's examples of all of that. Um, oh I have I have a network of friends and people and other photographers and and other models and actors blah Blah Blah. So if you can create. Something that someone goes like oh anything that I've ever wanted in terms of this um field I can go to this person and and pretty much get a really good product I Think that's a really important.

50:36.00
Jenna
She's what.

50:40.63
aaronmannes
<unk>or endeavor for people to look at in terms of themselves and creating that one-stop shop The best that they can if they want to pursue this kind of stuff. So with that question and and it it sometimes works with teams too I think I think there's a lot of lone wolfs out there.

50:48.31
Jenna
Her yeah.

50:59.90
aaronmannes
Ah, especially in the art world. It's kind of you know that's kind of the way it goes for the most part. But if you can team up with someone that has similar but different skill sets. Um I think Seth and I have been way more successful when we go into something together.

51:16.66
Jenna
Okay.

51:18.94
aaronmannes
And approach a company or a brand or a cabin or a retreat or whatever it is versus ourselves individually just trying to get out there and do something um I think.

51:28.12
Jenna
Well of course because any project you do at the end of the day Even if you're on your own Yous we all need that little bit of help right? So if you market yourself alone I'm sure you're gonna maybe bring a friend along to model for that brand or or whatnot so in the end coming in as a team. Definitely.

51:36.26
aaronmannes
Yes.

51:47.49
smacey
1 I think it also helps get approval or get said yes to on idea pitches. You know before you even get there I think also Aaron right.

51:48.80
Jenna
Definitely helps.

52:00.88
aaronmannes
Yeah that's that's what I'm saying too and like it it may it may give the illusion or maybe it's not an illusion. It's true and just of like ah oh this is a team of 2 competent people like we're it's going to work out because we got we got backup in a way like. You know if 1 guy's camera breaks at least there's like someone else there too and that's just a dumb example, but like it just kind of gives probably the the confidence that oh like they're together. They have you know they have more following they have more reach they have more equipment they have more.

52:36.15
smacey
Brain power.

52:38.35
aaronmannes
Ability to help set each other yeah man like whatever it is. They can move a couch together like whatever they need to do? um it can happen with a team and I think that's important and also a selling point just as a side note that um I use with like that's an upsell in my cabin shots like.

52:45.13
Jenna
Um, but perfect.

52:57.52
aaronmannes
Yeah I could head. Ah if you want me like midweek. Ah when you find out that there's a cancellation like three days ahead of time I might be able to go on my own but I'm probably not going to be able to bring ah like ah, a crew. Ah or people that can act or model or. Lifestyle shots. It's going to It's not going to be the same experience and if you do want that like I have a huge network in terms because of the podcast and Instagram and whatever like I can I can gather a group of people but it takes planning um and that's kind of a nice way to.

53:17.79
Jenna
Um.

53:32.80
aaronmannes
Upsell The the imagery of like lifestyle and and multiple people in one shoot versus just my mug sitting there drinking coffee. You don't want to see that you don't want to see that I'm I'm very big I make cabins look so small. That's a problem.

53:33.18
Jenna
You know.

53:42.59
smacey
Some of us do.

53:51.42
aaronmannes
So problem in in photography I'm I'm tall and it makes the cabins look really tiny remember I couldn't be in the warner's camp pictures in the kitchen I couldn't yeah.

53:56.64
Jenna
This.

54:00.42
smacey
Yeah, you are you do make them look small. Yeah, it's true because your head was at the ceiling it looked like one of those Ripley's believe it or not books.

54:09.47
aaronmannes
Yeah, yeah, it was absurd. It was like someone did the perspective tool on photoshop and just stretched me out. But now I kid but my.

54:10.10
Jenna
Must.

54:17.81
Jenna
Um, this is.

54:25.29
aaronmannes
Just my point is I think numbers are great and you guys have a built-in sort of team and that's that's awesome. Um, Seth you got to see the pixie set and like the portfolio the presentation. It's really really cool.

54:30.10
Jenna
It's.

54:38.36
smacey
Um, yeah I mean I went through all the links and everything looks top notch like very professionally done I think one of my biggest takeaways from this conversation I don't know if I I can't really remember if I got to reference it or not or if we moved on quickly was because I've struggled with this.

54:39.94
aaronmannes
Yeah.

54:53.31
smacey
I Think you mentioned it takes time to individualize and customize a pitch deck or a template to to a specific client that you're trying to you know work with that takes a lot of time for them to maybe say yes. So.

55:06.27
Jenna
Ah.

55:11.18
smacey
And that can be a huge letdown you put 10 hours into something that looks magnificent and they're not even you know, interested at all. But you also don't want to pitch them with nothing to demonstrate your professionalism. So I like the idea of looking for a hybrid model where you're not too vague and you're not spending too much time customizing something that. They may have 0 interest in that's been a big big takeaway for me. So I appreciate you sharing that? yeah.

55:31.88
Jenna
Um.

55:34.18
Jenna
Welcome. Yeah I mean I feel like as artists like there's no right or wrong way right? There's no, there is no manual. No one gives you a manual for this stuff and we just you know we go with what works and like I know some other creators that they make like personalized pitch.

55:52.58
smacey
Um, I think there's an individual style. You know there's a style in how you take a photograph. There's a style and how you craft an email. There's a style in how you structure your day. There's a style and.

55:52.61
Jenna
Decks and it just works for them and I'm like that's great I I can't do that. So um, so yeah I guess it's yeah.

56:09.39
Jenna
Stoper.

56:09.47
smacey
You know all these different things. There's so many different ways to be creative and there's so many different ways to be. You know, efficient and they're all individualized. You know I I Personally believe that and obviously there's principles and foundations within photography within structuring your day and all those things I just mentioned that. Proven to work. But I think it's how you tweak the small things and optimize for the way your brain works when you have the most energy your strong suits your weak suits that you know effectively gives you a one of a kind strategy for whatever it is. You're trying to do.

56:42.60
Jenna
Um, and again like back to the whole artist thing. Another big thing for me this year is I ended up doing a bit of coaching with um. My friend Rob he's from Toronto rob I don't know if I'm saying his last name ands. Its rob vans it not sure anyway. So yeah I I hit him up and I was like listen I'm like the pitching.

56:57.62
smacey
Not sure.

57:08.35
Jenna
Marketing myself and like I need some assistant this year like assistance this year so I did a month coaching with him and it it definitely really helped cause it helped me like dive in and ask questions that um cause that's it. We're artists right? So we go in and we want to be like inspirational. We want to sell our our work and I was forgetting that I needed to solve a problem for the brand for the companies and whoever I was reaching out to so I was doing too much of like trying to sell myself instead of going in with like hey.

57:31.49
aaronmannes
Are.

57:42.70
Jenna
You know like this is what like these are the issues that I see you're having and this is what I can provide you with so it was business linual that I was like missing like cause we don't We don't do marketing technically so we didn't go into marketing school.

57:49.12
aaronmannes
Yeah now.

57:57.87
Jenna
So there was that aspect and it's okay to ask for help like that's what I had to get into this year it's okay to ask for help and invest in myself because we have this like um I don't say it's not ego but because we've been wearing so many hats for so long when you go into this, you almost feel like you have to keep wearing all the hats.

57:59.46
smacey
Any.

58:15.98
Jenna
And you don't want to like outsource or ask for help. But I think it's important that we do do that and we go to the professionals right? because people come to us because we're professionals as photographers right? So you want to go to someone who understands marketing and business and get their take and help you.

58:29.40
aaronmannes
Yeah.

58:34.64
Jenna
Advance your business so that was a big thing too that um helped me like with wording and how to brand myself this year

58:43.20
aaronmannes
Yeah I think that's that's a common theme with some of the most successful people on here is the outsourcing and and getting help where where needed and and just that thought of um, you need to solve a problem and you need to go to the company with like this is the problem here's how we can solve it.

58:57.20
Jenna
No.

58:59.38
aaronmannes
Is a pretty quick concept but unless you get there on your own magically like it could take forever to figure that out on your own versus someone that's been there to say hey like look at it this way and you're like oh okay, like it's It's not too complicated, but it's just not the way.

59:07.54
Jenna
Um, what.

59:17.80
aaronmannes
You have blinders onto like that concept because that's just not how it has unfolded before. So I think um, yeah, asking for help not being afraid to to pay some money to try to improve yourself. Um is is a must and and.

59:29.22
Jenna
No.

59:34.75
aaronmannes
Stuff We do all the time in like other avenues whether you're paying for a rock climbing membership or meditation or yoga or whatever it may be like we have no problem paying for the gym like why not pay for advice that could help you business wise you know.

59:46.82
Jenna
Um, yeah.

59:48.29
smacey
Right.

59:52.41
aaronmannes
So it's a and really important point.

59:55.36
smacey
Break Sometimes it's so hard to see what you're paying for and there's physical experiences with those other things and we forget that sometimes you know ah intangible are worth the same amount or worth our dollars. So totally agree.

59:57.85
Jenna
Yeah.

01:00:00.90
aaronmannes
Um.

01:00:05.82
Jenna
Yeah I agree with that too.

01:00:05.88
aaronmannes
Yeah.

01:00:10.46
smacey
Well, what do you think.

01:00:12.49
aaronmannes
Well you yeah I think we're about the hour point and that's where we start to wrap things up, you've got a really good thing going. Um, you're well-spoken. You've got a great teammate back there. We'd love to have him on the show at some point. Um, so. Yeah, you guys are doing ah again a really good job. You've been really helpful and generous with your time with the group and sharing what you know so I appreciate that you know and I'm sure all the people in that group do as well. So thank you for that I always look forward to your posts and and seeing what you're up to um.

01:00:46.20
Jenna
Think Thank you.

01:00:48.60
aaronmannes
So yeah, keep it going.

01:00:49.58
smacey
And links everything in the episode description. So people can see you know all these ah you know Pixi set and websites. We've talked about throughout this episode.

01:00:57.40
Jenna
Yes.

01:00:58.56
aaronmannes
Yeah, for sure we gotta get pixie set to you know, give a little free advertising there. It just talks about like putting your foot down this whole episode not giving stuff away. Wow What an organic ad what an organic ad.

01:01:02.66
Jenna
Um, with this.

01:01:07.23
smacey
I Legit had no idea what that was to be totally honest and fair here. So not giving anybody well I'm not endorsing until I try it but it looks good. So.

01:01:18.50
aaronmannes
Oh my god.

01:01:21.66
smacey
Anything else. You want to add today Jenna that we maybe missed maybe any upcoming projects or anything you want to promote or extra things you want to say.

01:01:28.43
Jenna
Ah, upcoming projects. Yeah in October we are we finally it was a long long one to go through but we finally we landed. We're working with visit Madeira so we'll be heading to madeira um, in.

01:01:42.38
smacey
Um, where's that Oh wow.

01:01:45.19
Jenna
Portugal Island of madeira um, yeah, we like we reached out to them like the end of last year like in 2022 and yeah I see how long it takes with tourism like the back and the back and forth and then like just all the logistics. So we're pretty.

01:01:46.49
aaronmannes
Um, wow.

01:02:04.42
Jenna
Soked on that we are going in the dolomites right before and then right after that we'll be going to the Maldives Maldives Mel. Okay, so that's 1 thing for me I really don't like god through Instagram I don't know if it's because it's like that.

01:02:10.38
smacey
Are these all Dm reach out to are these emails.

01:02:11.45
aaronmannes
Or a dea.

01:02:22.18
Jenna
Immediate like you know if they ghost you right away I don't know what it is but I really know like going through Dm I have like no um emails. So if I could give one more I've been giving some tips So me you said So I've been using. Um, it's um, what's the word.

01:02:23.30
smacey
So.

01:02:32.70
smacey
Um, yeah, bonus.

01:02:42.80
Jenna
It's a browser extension I think this is called it's called apollo I don't know if anyone has heard of it before. Okay so I use it and it like links with Linkedin I've been using Linkedin this year to find contacts.

01:02:47.98
aaronmannes
Um, now.

01:02:57.94
Jenna
So I'll like look up a brand and then I'll see like the employees and I'll type in like who the marketing person is like you know and Apollo gives you their emails I know I don't know if we should both have this go up. But um.

01:03:09.75
smacey
Whoa. It's intense.

01:03:10.60
aaronmannes
Um, Woa Creepy got to cut this out.

01:03:16.79
Jenna
That too is a game changer because I just find I know if you guys had that but I have a lot of brands that like to gate keep like you kind of tell them like hey I'm going like I have this exciting like idea like Concept. Would love to you know work with the brand would it be possible to be putting contact with the person in charge of marketing and everything and sometimes it goes buzz and the other times it's like no sorry we can't give out that information but like pass it on to the info at and like we'll pass it on and I'm just like no, you're not going to do that like ah gatekeeping like what's the point.

01:03:46.94
aaronmannes
Um, yeah, yeah.

01:03:50.30
Jenna
So I don't know but that too has been a game changer.

01:03:54.12
smacey
Wow, That's intense I don't know if we'll keep that in or not.

01:03:57.30
aaronmannes
Um, yeah, yeah, gives their their personal email their address their their telephone their 10 schedule when they're when they're alone at home.

01:03:57.71
Jenna
Um, yeah is for you guys? Um, so yeah, or it's not there. No one white there a give a gives.

01:04:06.70
smacey
Their tennis schedule. Yeah when they order Uber eats.

01:04:15.34
aaronmannes
Man.

01:04:16.16
Jenna
Yeah, cause you' know on Linkedin it's like it's weird like when you go look at someone's profile it tells you like I don't know why Linkedin so here you don't have to go through that process that you don't see that you're looking at their I've never had anyone ask me like how do you get my email. It just worked. It gives you their.

01:04:22.80
aaronmannes
Um, yeah, no, it does it does.

01:04:32.63
aaronmannes
Um, cool. Yeah, no, it's fine. You're you're a stalker and you're creepy. That's fine. You do We gotta do.

01:04:33.30
Jenna
Their work email I mean.

01:04:39.35
Jenna
Um, yeah me it was.

01:04:41.60
smacey
Well there you go do what you got to do.

01:04:46.79
aaronmannes
I'm just kidding. No that makes sense. It's an email big deal Big whoop You got an email Ah, that's not a big deal. We're just joking with you. Ah, thank you so much for all the tips and all the sharing of wisdom. Um, again, you're doing a great job. Keep it up.

01:04:49.64
Jenna
Oh no.

01:05:00.66
Jenna
Thank you.

01:05:04.57
smacey
And thanks for joining us today and thanks for ah for offering your time for us and our listeners very appreciative.

01:05:11.70
Jenna
Yeah, so thank you for having me. Um.

01:05:13.50
aaronmannes
Youre welcome I can cross you off the list now doing it set. She did say I ah I was like hey would you ever want to be on the on the podcast and of course like it's it was pretty seethro because I like can you do it tomorrow. Um.

01:05:19.24
smacey
Ah, new, Big big whiteboard.

01:05:30.36
smacey
Um, we need see through.

01:05:31.29
aaronmannes
But see through in terms of like I we need like we needed a guest and she was like oh who canceled I'm like no I know I I said I said we don't I say I said you know what never mind you never mind.

01:05:33.84
smacey
No, we didn't you and I do guests all the time you and I do podcast together all the time we don't need her. We're honored to have her but we be okay.

01:05:37.71
Jenna
Um.

01:05:48.22
aaronmannes
Never mind. We don't never mind I take it back and I unsent the Dm request Um, no, but I said I was away like I was at a cabin Yes, that.

01:05:53.78
smacey
How it actually went down. We've done so many episodes together and we haven't done a guest in a while like I'd really like a guest I don't have anybody in mind who do you think and here you are Jenna that's the true story. So.

01:05:54.42
Jenna
Um.

01:06:06.82
Jenna
Here I am.

01:06:09.50
aaronmannes
Is is that not what I said exactly I was like I was at a cabin we've done 3 in a row by ourselves. We really could do a guest. Ah.

01:06:13.50
Jenna
Yeah, he did say that you said that after you said that? Okay, what wait What did you say for? I don't remember now but I do remember upside down list that was that big one.

01:06:22.65
aaronmannes
Um, that you're I don't know I think are yeah as a year on the list. But.

01:06:31.78
smacey
Um, sometimes Aaron sarcasm doesn't land. So it's okay, now it was good to have you and it was yeah.

01:06:35.27
aaronmannes
Well if you listen to the show if you listen to the show you would get my sarcasm so it's just proof that you don't.

01:06:36.58
Jenna
Um, and.

01:06:44.16
Jenna
Now I've heard some but even in your ear and your Dms when you when you answer it like you can we can. We can hear the sarcasm.

01:06:46.28
aaronmannes
Some sarcastic comments.

01:06:54.95
aaronmannes
Ah, yeah from you too. So my point was ah I said hey would you like to be on and her first comment was it's about time you asked.

01:06:55.87
smacey
It's good when people get it.

01:07:02.61
smacey
Oh there we go.

01:07:03.21
Jenna
Know I be honored and then I said it was about time past.

01:07:06.70
aaronmannes
Yeah, and I was like here we go. Okay, alright thank you everyone? Oh we'll talk soon. All right bye.

01:07:10.67
Jenna
This.

01:07:12.99
smacey
All good stuff all right? Thank you so much. Okay, Bye see yeah.

01:07:16.40
Jenna
All right? good. Thank you don't take care hi.