The Creative Cycle: How Taking an Extended Period of Time Away From Photography Can Make You Improve with Bret Blakely

Bret Blakely (@bretblakely), our very first guest on the genesis episode of this podcast, returns to share his inspiring journey back to photography after a long hiatus. Driven by renewed passion, Bret talks about overcoming guilt for stepping away, rediscovering joy in his craft, and how his communication skills elevate his photography. Bret is also the co-founder of "Oncore Golf", a successful golf ball manufacturing company. He talks a lot about how his business experience has translated into the photography world. He reflects on shifting from seeking audience validation to creating for personal fulfillment, fostering a healthier relationship with his art. We also discuss exposure therapy, conquering insecurities, and the power of “the obstacle is the way.”

Expect to learn:

- how to reignite passion and the psychological process involved in this
- how to manage feelings of guilt when stepping away from a beloved thing
- the importance of being a genuine and engaged communicator
- how to focus on personal satisfaction with your own creative work
- how to tackle insecurities and fears head on with exposure therapy

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Thanks for listening!
Go get shooting, go get editing, and stay focused.

@sethmacey
@mantis_photography
@thephotographermindset

Transcript

INTRO:

00:00.93
Seth Macey
Hey, this is the photographer mindset podcast. I'm your co-host Seth Macey.

00:04.99
Aaron
I'm your co-host Aaron Mannes.

00:06.74
Seth Macey
Today we had on the Genesis guest pre Aaron or BA before Aaron, it was Bret Blakely, the very first guest on this podcast.

00:09.86
Aaron
Wow. Oh, B.A.

00:18.29
Seth Macey
So I think I said right in the intro, we'll always have a place in my heart. He has to.

00:23.26
Aaron
Yeah, friend of shell forever.

00:24.80
Seth Macey
episode one. If you're interested, go back and check that out. That was four years ago. Wow. Time flies. If you want to have some maybe cringe moments with me, see if I've developed at all as an interviewer, but this is a podcast. This is your first time listening. We talk mindset. We talk photography. We're two photographers and our goal is to, I guess what, help build mental resilience, some mindfulness in your photography practice to live a life of joy, have some peace, also break through some barriers,

00:53.52
Seth Macey
hit some new milestones, challenge ourselves. And we talk about just how to do that, whether it's just simply getting better or whether it's making an income, passive income. And what do we talk about today with Brett? We talked a lot about insecurities, exposure therapy, getting over that. We talked a lot about how to be an excellent networker and more so how to have good relationships and the value of those. What else did we hit on?

01:21.45
Aaron
Yeah, Brett's a ah good friend. He's been the a key factor in my start of photography. when we get into ah He is, I think, a great speaker, a great networker, how important it is to be a people person, even in maybe an introverted sort of business, which is photography.

01:28.13
Seth Macey
And.

01:42.44
Aaron
he's You can tell he's passionate about his craft and not afraid to take a break and get back into it.

01:48.60
Seth Macey
Yeah, he took a really long hiatus from photography. And I think we mentioned that in this this episode. Sometimes the passion fades, but it doesn't mean that it's gone forever. You can always return to you're the things you love at full speed and maybe come back stronger with some new insights, with some better tools. And Brett has done just that. His most recent stuff is incredible. He's also the co-owner of Encore Golf. So if you're a golfer, check out that company.

02:16.84
Seth Macey
And let's get into today's episode after a word from our sponsor.

INTERVIEW:

00:00:37.38
Seth Macey
Bret Blakely, how are you, my friend?

00:00:39.89
bret
I'm doing good, man. It's been a long time.

00:00:42.39
Seth Macey
Many people don't know, but Brett was the very first guest on this podcast in its and its infancy, in its birth.

00:00:46.64
Aaron
No way!

00:00:49.42
Seth Macey
Four years ago, Mr. Brett was kind enough to trust me to interview him. And that's why Brett will always have a place in my heart.

00:00:57.05
bret
And you killed it. I mean, you were, Both of you were born to do this, but I mean, you kicked it off. You were, uh, I was like, man, what insightful questions, um, just really raised the intellectual game for myself personally.

00:01:06.04
Seth Macey
oh

00:01:11.06
bret
And it was a great experience.

00:01:11.75
Seth Macey
Oh, wow.

00:01:13.22
bret
So it's pretty fun to be back on.

00:01:14.81
Seth Macey
Go subscribe on YouTube so you can see me blushing everyone.

00:01:17.83
bret
All right.

00:01:18.23
Aaron
Yeah.

00:01:19.02
bret
Let's shine a light on that face.

00:01:21.83
Seth Macey
So Brett, you've you've taken a hiatus for a little while and I must say you come back. I don't know how long your hiatus was, but it seems like you've never left. You've come back with some really, really good stuff.

00:01:33.52
Seth Macey
And don't take this wrong way, but way better than what you used to post. You've always been really skilled, but like your stuff recently is incredible. Do you think that your break kind of from, you know, you're focusing on encore golf, the business you run, get a lot of other, like just you're living life. Do you think that's helped kind of come have helped you come back to the space of the fresh mind inspired? Like what's going on with you? I'm here to catch up with you. And I know this conversation is going to be full of gems for people.

00:02:02.27
bret
Yeah, no, i um I definitely think it helped. You know, when we were kind of all talking a lot and doing our weekly calls and, you know, planning epic adventures and all that, I i don't think I was so into it, so bitten and kind of obsessive about it. um Which was great, it was a great place to be. And then a lot of things just did happen. Life, ah you know, stress and and time constraints from the business, um you know, things in the personal life where just didn't have the same kind of flexibility ah to to be able to kind of travel the way I i felt like I wanted to.

00:02:43.44
bret
um And I think just, you know, i there was probably a small point where I wasn't as eager to learn. And I think that's when things get really boring, you know, when you when you don't want to learn anymore.

00:02:56.75
bret
And, um you know, there's so much like so many ways to grow when you're creating and whether it's photography or videography or anything.

00:02:57.71
Seth Macey
Yeah.

00:03:06.12
bret
But I just kind of had needed a break, I think, from it. We all know Instagram can be a game and I let it become too much of that, I think. um And so taking that space and just kind of focusing elsewhere, ah I didn't really expect. I just didn't have a, I guess I wasn't as aggressive about like making a plan and putting into action to get out and shoot or or what have you. And um I do think it helped a ton. I also, it's kind of funny because I look at a lot of my photos in, we'll call it like the first half of the last, you know, six years were

00:03:43.24
Seth Macey
Aha.

00:03:43.94
bret
Definitely like of a really mood moody nature and you know very similar color tone. and um And I still love moody shots, but i you know I got married. And obviously, well, we got engaged in February 2020, got married you know a couple of years later. um And I don't know if that's part of it or what, but I've definitely noticed you know I really enjoy kind of um taking on the color of every scene and picture um and making them so they don't really look like each other on ah on a grid necessarily, but I do think they're cohesive in the sense of i they're all like kind of paying tribute to the various colors that we're going to see. And I have a more colorful style, I would say, than I used to. um So I think it was great for me for sure. I think everybody can use a break every once in a while. And I'm just glad that I found my way back to it because I really am

00:04:39.38
bret
I'm in love with it and you know for all the right reasons and and get really excited about creating and and more importantly, really excited about learning new stuff and learning new you know skills and the in the field.

00:04:49.75
Seth Macey
Yeah.

00:04:53.85
Aaron
Can you think, oops, sorry.

00:04:53.89
Seth Macey
yeah and oh up I we're excited today.

00:04:55.85
Aaron
Oh, and this is what we do. We're so excited.

00:04:57.55
bret
so

00:04:57.75
Aaron
and We just go at the same time.

00:04:58.98
bret
That's a very couple.

00:05:00.19
Aaron
We need a, uh, we need like, uh, a wink or like, uh, yeah.

00:05:03.64
Seth Macey
We need the family feud buzzer.

00:05:06.63
bret
Mm-hmm.

00:05:07.17
Aaron
Or if I, if I'm doing this, I'm coming in, I'm coming in hot.

00:05:09.61
bret
Yeah.

00:05:10.32
Aaron
If I'm stroking the beard, I know that's cause I want to talk.

00:05:10.70
Seth Macey
You're always doing that.

00:05:11.94
bret
Shot call or maybe but questions like that.

00:05:14.33
Aaron
Yeah, shock, shock collar for Seth, but I can just press spacebar and he gets zapped.

00:05:14.32
Seth Macey
Fine.

00:05:17.33
Seth Macey
so Exactly the Amazon wish list.

00:05:21.54
Aaron
Yeah.

00:05:22.25
bret
but

00:05:22.58
Aaron
Yeah. Uh, my question along with Seth, I'm going to piggyback on it is, can you define like a, is there a defining moment when you both knew? That you wanted to you need to step away was there a moment where you need to you said like ah I'm gonna step away or was it a gradual sort of I'm gonna step away and then on the flip side is there a moment we're like I'm gonna get back into this I'm gonna put some effort into this and showing my work or getting back into photography are are there moments that you can define or think of that we're both of those scenarios.

00:05:59.23
bret
Yeah, so for the stepping away, um you know i when I think about it, I really don't think it was intentional. It wasn't like a conscious break. i It was more of just life happening, and whatever was internally driving you know the interests and excitement before, um unbeknownst to me, had kind of dwindled a little bit. And maybe that was because I was just like stagnant with, ah i well, at least I felt I was stagnant with my skill set at the point at that time.

00:06:29.48
bret
um I do remember like when one when I did sort of slow down for, it was probably like nine months, six months, um I had a ton of travel going on for Encore.

00:06:37.35
Aaron
Yeah.

00:06:40.83
bret
i mean It was constant. It was you know one, two times a month. It was just really hard for me to, A, not only you know make time while I'm at home and not traveling um to to not be like spending an hour or two on YouTube and learning new stuff or or putting you know new skills into action. but It was also, I think, really tough i to feasibly have time to take trips.

00:07:08.69
bret
now There's no excuse for anything. I mean, I could just go out to, you know, somewhere in Buffalo and things like that. But, um you know, my personality's big. I i like the epic stuff. and And it just wasn't exciting me enough just to, like, go down the street to Tip Farm or whatever. um I mean, it's beautiful there. It's great. But I wanted, you know, kind of some big scenes. And I feel like I was waiting for something that was really new to me. ah to pull me out of that. And i I'm trying to think from a timing standpoint, what it was, but I feel like I feel like Greece may have been i the trip um because I believe I had already been engaged when I went on my break. And Greece, I think, was like the big international trip, first big international trip that I had done in quite a while. And although, of course, it's you know, it wasn't a trip for photography, but there were

00:08:05.39
bret
There were moments in in there, again, where like I really enjoyed a lot of this stuff that I enjoy about photography. One of the things I always get excited about is you know even the places that might be with some of the biggest tourist attractions on the planet, I always say how cool it is that it's still probably less than 1% of people that will ever see the vast majority of these in existence.

00:08:28.23
Aaron
yeah

00:08:29.50
bret
and it's I mean it is a 0.00001% of people, if not if really nobody, that's going to watch that sunrise from that spot on that day at that moment with the same lens, with everything. like Everything you experience is so singular, even if you're in a place that's really populated. and i remember um You know, Santorini was cool because it was our last night and we went to, did a whole boat thing that day and then went to dinner that night.

00:09:02.54
bret
And I think it's called Wia. Yeah. Yeah. It's like the famous part where, you know, the postcard Santorini, of course, I wanted my sunset um or a sunrise shot from there.

00:09:11.09
Aaron
Right.

00:09:15.34
bret
And I mean, there was, there had to have been over 500 people at the the best vantage point. And it was the whole night walking even though it was an incredible experience. We're in high season and walking down the streets. You are literally squeezing through people no matter where you go. Next morning i our hotel was at the way other diagonal south, southeast end of the island. And I booked like a 4 a.m. you know Uber or a car.

00:09:44.02
bret
um To drive me up in the next day and I got there while it was dark and for about two hours I had all of Santorini in high season completely to myself. I mean there was there was nobody on the streets I didn't see i got I got to go to the same, you know spot for sunrise Got all my shots that I was really excited about was able to just enjoy it like slowly people waking up and then I just walked around for an hour and you know, it's I uh, locals coming out and sweeping off the front porches and one by one individuals waking up.

00:10:16.88
bret
And I just remember how excited, um, I was for getting up, being up early and, you know, just taking the extra effort.

00:10:23.26
Aaron
Yeah.

00:10:25.26
bret
That was, those were probably two moments, uh, on the polar opposite of ends.

00:10:27.81
Aaron
Yeah.

00:10:30.11
Aaron
And that's why sunrises always win for photographers because the rest of the tourists are sleeping in waiting for breakfast.

00:10:36.47
bret
Yeah, for sure.

00:10:38.39
Seth Macey
I just take sunset pics and then when I caption, I say, check out the sunrise.

00:10:42.66
Aaron
Yeah.

00:10:44.04
bret
Yeah.

00:10:44.27
Aaron
Yeah. That's brilliant.

00:10:44.91
bret
Tell AI to make it look more like a sunrise.

00:10:47.20
Seth Macey
I don't do that. I'm kidding. God.

00:10:48.79
bret
and

00:10:50.04
Aaron
yeah

00:10:50.27
Seth Macey
Uh, well, you know what? You're anyone who's seen your work recently, this is a, and if you don't see, you haven't seen Brett's work, go follow his page. This is a refreshing story of how you can leave something you are passionate about and love so much and it's going to be okay.

00:11:07.38
bret
Yeah.

00:11:07.71
Seth Macey
it's really easy to pick things back up that you have built the skill set for. Maybe not at first. I'm sure you were a little rusty when you came back. Things felt clunky, awkward, maybe. Maybe I'm wrong.

00:11:17.72
bret
Now big time.

00:11:17.86
Seth Macey
At least that's how it works for me. But you can leave things that you are passionate about and have loved and you can come back and do really well even better than when you when maybe that passion was fading and and your your story is very ah telltale of that.

00:11:36.01
Seth Macey
I think I knew you were back. He's back. When I saw your Quebec Northern light shots and take this as a compliment because it is so hard to stand out with memorable content on this platform these days.

00:11:41.34
Aaron
yeah and

00:11:49.45
Seth Macey
We all know that and I know the exact shots in my mind that I just referred to, like I can see them.

00:11:57.62
bret
That's cool. Thank you.

00:11:58.51
Seth Macey
And I thought to myself, damn, Brett's back. Brett's back having fun. Brett's back going to be doing some stuff. So let this let this be permission for anyone listening who's like, man, my heart's just not in it.

00:12:04.59
Aaron
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

00:12:04.89
bret
yeah

00:12:11.41
Seth Macey
I got to deal with some other life things. You can come back at any time. Stuff's waiting for you always.

00:12:16.46
Aaron
Mm hmm.

00:12:17.38
bret
yeah

00:12:17.50
Aaron
And, and what a gift for in a way it's it's kind of you could relate to like the golf gods giving you a gift Brett, but uh, you know, you, you took a break, you listened to your heart, you, you kind of faded out for a minute.

00:12:17.55
Seth Macey
Right.

00:12:29.81
Aaron
You had other things to do and you come back and the photography gods, if you will, gives you that Northern lights when you're, you're doing a ah cabin gig and for the, for the hosts of that cabin, they must be like,

00:12:42.88
Aaron
Are you kidding me with these photos? Like, what the? We picked the right weekend and like you guys crushed it.

00:12:47.08
Seth Macey
Right.

00:12:51.10
Aaron
And it was just like, I don't know, very, um very meant to be in that moment.

00:12:51.16
bret
Yeah.

00:12:55.63
Aaron
It was kind of cool. And you call it luck, call it whatever, but you were you were ready and you you captured it.

00:13:01.74
Seth Macey
You're

00:13:02.45
Aaron
And it's like. I've always thought of you as kind of like a blessed photographer, like you get these really cool moments that deer at the

00:13:10.97
Seth Macey
just saying he's lucky?

00:13:12.49
Aaron
no but beyond lucky but so but some of it but some of it yeah and and the more you practice the more you're out there the luckier you get right like that's that's what ends up happening but

00:13:13.46
bret
I mean, lots of huge part of it for sure.

00:13:17.18
Seth Macey
Well, you know what I heard. of I've heard a great saying that stuck with me. I think it'll stick with me forever. It's you have to be good to be lucky and sometimes you got to be lucky to be good.

00:13:26.19
bret
Yeah.

00:13:26.77
Seth Macey
I love that saying. It's so true.

00:13:31.47
Seth Macey
Yeah.

00:13:31.65
bret
Yeah.

00:13:34.54
bret
Well, I mean, we were definitely lucky in that case. It was raining and overcast after our sunset hike where we didn't really get a sunset. It was like kind of a moody. Big miss kind of sunset and we go to dinner and you know um One of the guys from Buffalo is texting Adam Danny and he's just like man It's like a 10 out of 10 tonight where you guys are, you know, how is it and we're like, bro It's literally overcast raining. You you can't see anything so we thought we were gonna have this beautiful light show going on over us and not even be able to witness it and yeah, I mean that's a lot we get back to the

00:14:11.17
bret
The cabin shut off all the lights through the fireplace on, decided to just edit. And sure enough, like 15 minutes later, Adam just kind of sticks his iPhone toward the toward the glass and he's like, I can see the lights are out. It must have, you know, started to clear and it was super windy. um And so, of course, we hopped in our gear and went outside and I mean, it was three and a half hours straight that we spent out there because it was just going nuts.

00:14:37.88
bret
I mean, every, all the colors were constantly changing.

00:14:40.50
Aaron
um

00:14:41.22
bret
You could literally see them pulsing, you know, with your, with your naked eye. And we're like, we're yelling to each other from different vantage points. Can you f'n believe this?

00:14:51.36
bret
You know, what's going on? This is crazy. So, and that's another thing.

00:14:54.33
Seth Macey
Three hours straight.

00:14:55.23
bret
Those are those moments where you're just like, Oh, this is,

00:14:58.10
Aaron
The neighbors are like, shut the fuck up.

00:15:00.13
bret
Yeah. No luck. I mean, it was, it was pretty, there was nobody around.

00:15:03.78
Aaron
No one around you.

00:15:04.02
bret
So we did luck.

00:15:04.30
Aaron
Yeah.

00:15:04.78
Seth Macey
Except it would have been in French.

00:15:06.79
Aaron
yeah feme la bush That's it.

00:15:06.82
bret
Yeah. Yeah. We lucked out.

00:15:09.71
Seth Macey
Something say, oh, I wish I could speak French. I can't. Not all Canadians can speak French for the majority of our American listeners.

00:15:13.54
Aaron
Sure.

00:15:16.74
Seth Macey
That's our audience.

00:15:18.12
Aaron
Yeah.

00:15:18.10
Seth Macey
Stereotype us.

00:15:18.43
bret
yeah

00:15:19.81
Aaron
yeah

00:15:19.97
bret
Yeah, all the Airbnbs that we were working with were definitely, you know, some thick French accents. And I'm like, man, I gotta a got learn this. Gotta learn some French, gotta learn some other languages.

00:15:31.49
bret
Now I'm seeing on the TikTok shop, those headphones or the earbuds that translate instantly.

00:15:34.65
Seth Macey
Oh

00:15:37.76
bret
And so now like, yeah, so now when, you know, I, I just filled out a form for, um, Trova trip, uh, to be a host.

00:15:38.15
Aaron
Hmm.

00:15:38.14
Seth Macey
wow.

00:15:45.99
bret
They wanted me to be a host for one of their workshops or whatever. And it says how many languages do you speak? And now I want to say all, because I'm just going to get these, I speak every language on earth.

00:15:52.35
Aaron
Yeah.

00:15:56.13
Aaron
I understand every language.

00:15:56.67
bret
I speak in tongues even.

00:15:57.32
Seth Macey
I actually have neural link in my brain.

00:15:59.62
bret
Right.

00:15:59.74
Aaron
Yeah.

00:16:00.48
bret
Yeah.

00:16:00.57
Aaron
Yeah.

00:16:01.69
bret
I think that's really going to up, you know, my valuable, um, one of my valuable assets.

00:16:01.79
Aaron
One day.

00:16:06.21
bret
So.

00:16:06.29
Seth Macey
Bread Blakely brain interface photographer trip host.

00:16:06.75
Aaron
Yeah.

00:16:09.61
bret
Good.

00:16:11.69
Seth Macey
Uh, let's rewind. So when you were kind of losing the fire, the the spark to get out and shoot in that phase, was there guilt?

00:16:23.77
bret
Mm hmm. Definitely. It's a good call.

00:16:26.85
Seth Macey
Do you describe that?

00:16:26.97
bret
I probably should be laying down for this because now this is getting deeper. um

00:16:31.09
Seth Macey
Well, I asked this because i i I was, you know, I was betting you would say yes, because we've all felt that when there's something we feel like we should be doing or we've sunk so much time or money into something. I think we feel like we're abandoning the thing or we're giving up on ourselves in a way and we don't give ourselves permission to to step away and then we end up feeling bad about how we're feeling and it can spiral.

00:17:04.33
bret
hundred percent

00:17:04.74
Seth Macey
And I'm curious if this is accurate or if you can maybe describe the nuances of that experience for you.

00:17:05.63
bret
100%. I definitely was, while I was feeling, I was feeling bad about it, I was feeling sad about it that I had,

00:17:22.58
bret
lost something that I was just like, could not wait to do more than anything. Confused as to like why that passion to dip down. um Like looking back on it, I think, you know, Encore is, which is a golf ball company is, we're 13 years into it. And there are so many ebbs and flows of it. You know, there've been a handful of times we've,

00:17:51.11
bret
figured we were writing our last paychecks and then times where we are jumping for joy and feel like we're gonna be, you know, multimillionaires tomorrow. And so that that definitely takes a lot of toll on you. And that timeframe was definitely a point where we had been growing really quick and it was also making it really hard to stay alive and and thrive. And so I think there was,

00:18:19.90
bret
A lot of stuff going on, for one, felt like that was taking a lot of my emotional energy. And for me, I mean, you guys know I'm a super emotional guy, um sometimes at fault, ah and sometimes it's it's good. But photography, for me, is super emotional. like Anything that has to do with like something I feel like I'm creating or getting to capture as it's been you know as it's happening and everything is is it more of an emotional experience for me.

00:18:47.76
bret
um Because it it ties in so many senses, you know, and when I'm editing, I'm listening to music that makes me emotional and whatever capacity doesn't mean I'm crying, it just means feeling something. And so like, to be able to put that much emotion and time into the art form, and still give the time and and effort as I felt I needed to or the encore, I was finding really difficult. But then that that whole thing I think is also what kind of fueled my comeback, if you will. Like it fueled the passion being reignited because there was so much stress around encore and is ah on good days and bad days. Sometimes the good days are even more stressful because then you're like, well, how do we top that?

00:19:37.33
bret
um yeah how do we take the next step? And it really made me evaluate like, all right, so I never felt stress or very rarely, ah other than like, man, I'm really bummed I missed a shot or the weather stinks or, um you know, that that was about it. Other than that, it was just like, it gave me weeks or months of excitement looking forward to the next big adventure or trip. I couldn't wait to get out with whoever i was going with um you know, on these adventures and just knowing there's going to be boatloads of laughs and and memories all the time. um So it made me kind of put in a perspective like, all right, obviously I want Encore to succeed and I hope I can take it to the limit and I hope it gets to a point where

00:20:23.50
bret
um And more, you know, can just kind of let it run on its own and I can spend more time doing this. But if you you were to put a gun in my head, you know, what do I want to do for the rest of my life? If I was able to make a living off of it, I wouldn't care if I made half of what I make running Encore. If I could do photography tomorrow and it could pay the bills and support a family and everything like that, I would do it.

00:20:48.35
bret
just because it's it it does bring that much joy. And it's also made me like really wary of, as I'm starting to learn how to potentially monetize, I'm trying to put like fail safes in place where like agreements with myself to not take on jobs that are gonna put me down the path of losing passion. If it's like Airbnbs, Aaron, you and I were talking about are so fun.

00:21:17.30
bret
Because if they're the right Airbnbs, these are in places and they're the kind of shots that people who like the outdoors and do landscape and wildlife would want anyway. So this is no sweat off my back.

00:21:27.50
Aaron
Yeah.

00:21:29.64
bret
In fact, the product is going to be a lot better for you know the client because I'm going to be super stoked to be there and and excited and you know it's going to be part of a great experience. um you know i i I'm hoping I can avoid feeling the need or having to take on a brand or a partnership of something that I just didn't get excited about. Because I think that you know that's when it doesn't become fun, which is where I kind of go back to like, I don't care if I don't make a boatload of money, but if it allows me to continue to do it.

00:22:04.21
bret
and I can at least contribute as a functioning member of my family and ah and a partner to Susie, then i'd you know I'd love to do that. And I think that's kind of where like fueling the passion is.

00:22:15.43
bret
And it's also given me so much to learn because now its there's a business side that I really got to figure out, building a media kit, all sorts of stuff to go along with that.

00:22:19.94
Aaron
Yeah.

00:22:25.24
Aaron
Yeah. Well, that's a lot of stuff. Seth and I could help you and would love to help you with, um, just in terms of some of the things that ah we've worked through.

00:22:29.67
bret
I would love to take your brain

00:22:33.14
Aaron
And we just had a call right before this recording about that exact same stuff, uh, pricing a job and, and.

00:22:38.18
Seth Macey
Yeah, I was trying to, yeah, I was trying to price them in out and Aaron says, you want to hop on 30 minutes early?

00:22:38.24
bret
Yeah.

00:22:42.73
Seth Macey
And we like to do that because then we, I think Aaron and I play this game and I suggest other people maybe play this game with us or somebody they trust.

00:22:43.49
bret
yeah

00:22:54.75
Seth Macey
Uh, I have a number in my head, usually of what I'm offering. And then I explain it to Aaron, the best of my ability. And then I say, Hey, what would you charge for this? And if we use within the range, I'm like, okay, I'm pretty confident with this.

00:23:08.59
Aaron
Yeah.

00:23:09.42
Seth Macey
And sometimes we're way off and then it's a chance for ah one of us to explain why and then agree or disagree. Usually I agree with Aaron. He's pretty smart.

00:23:20.49
Seth Macey
Pretty smart guy.

00:23:21.41
Aaron
Thanks, Seth. ah Yeah, it's ah it's a fun it's a it's a fun practice, and we we typically go back and forth with little things like that, uh, how to pitch, how to email, how to price.

00:23:34.09
Aaron
Uh, what do you think about this?

00:23:34.41
bret
Yeah.

00:23:35.10
Aaron
You think this is fair? Is this too much? I don't feel good pressing the send. And I'm like, suppress the send. You know, it's just a little encouragement.

00:23:40.66
Seth Macey
It's nice because you're not emotionally invested, right? Like maybe I'm, I have a relationship with this person or I want, I want to make sure I get more of the work.

00:23:45.07
Aaron
Right.

00:23:51.99
Aaron
Yeah. I don't want to lose it.

00:23:52.34
Seth Macey
And you're like, I don't, I don't know these people.

00:23:54.54
bret
Yeah.

00:23:55.04
Aaron
Yeah.

00:23:55.13
Seth Macey
This is objectively what you should charge in my opinion.

00:23:58.01
Aaron
Yeah.

00:23:58.87
Seth Macey
And I go, God damn, me you're right.

00:24:02.71
bret
Do you guys find it hard?

00:24:03.81
Aaron
buttt you said something interesting

00:24:05.88
bret
Sorry, it was just a quick question.

00:24:06.28
Aaron
what's

00:24:07.09
bret
I just wonder if you guys like in the beginning or still, do you find it hard to, i do you find do you find that you're constantly undervaluing yourself?

00:24:17.24
bret
Because I feel like I am in that phase right now where I just almost want to do everything for free just to have, to build a portfolio. Like I feel, I would be so happy to have somebody have, you know, a photo of mine in their house that I would almost rather give it away.

00:24:27.46
Aaron
Brett, you said something interesting.

00:24:34.37
bret
Like it's, it's really tough and Suzo is like, babe, you gotta, you gotta, like people are going to walk all over this. They're just going to take advantage.

00:24:42.01
Aaron
Yeah.

00:24:42.39
bret
Like you're worth more than that. Think how much money it costs you to do that. That's one thing I struggle with big time.

00:24:48.12
Seth Macey
I always say you can build a portfolio with, you can build a portfolio in a day in your house without actually having being on assignment for anyone.

00:24:48.25
Aaron
Yeah that's.

00:24:54.78
bret
Right.

00:24:54.89
Seth Macey
Like you can showcase your skillset, just going out to the golf course with a buddy, taking some awesome shots, some bunker shots.

00:24:59.12
bret
Yep.

00:25:02.08
bret
Yep.

00:25:02.96
Seth Macey
Now you're pitching encore golf, right?

00:25:05.72
Aaron
Yeah.

00:25:06.54
bret
There we go.

00:25:07.90
Aaron
Yeah. And you're, you're, you're new to it. So that this is a very normal new business feeling where you're like, I want to, I want to get in.

00:25:16.12
bret
Yeah.

00:25:17.06
Aaron
I don't want to offend anyone. I don't want to rip anyone off. I got to like, I'm i'm dipping my toes in, you know, and which brings me to a point of something you said, like, I, I think right now you, you, you work, you work hard with the company.

00:25:31.66
Aaron
It's emotional and stressful. Uh, the, the Encore golf. That's how you're describing it like this. That's a lot. And if you could do photography and love it every single day and pay the bills, you would.

00:25:46.02
Aaron
I think there's ah there's a trade-off. I think there's very few people in the world that wake up every single morning and go to get get to go to work and absolutely love every aspect of it.

00:25:57.65
Aaron
There's a trade-off.

00:25:57.68
bret
yeah

00:25:58.68
Aaron
So right now you work a day job, which allows you to be picky with, I'm only gonna do the photography that's gonna light my fire and make me love it.

00:26:09.67
Aaron
Maybe it's a gig once a month, but that's okay because I have my safety net. I think if you take the safety net away, there's still this aspect of life where it's like you you got to do some things you don't necessarily want to do to make it all work.

00:26:26.92
bret
Yeah.

00:26:27.06
Aaron
And I i think that's part of it. I think that's a nice place to be. ah Like I have my day job. I work in a school. It's very fulfilling in a very different way. And I can be very choosy with the photography I want to do.

00:26:40.49
Aaron
Right. But if I said, I'm going to get rid of, I'm going to go all photography, you better believe I'm taking some gigs. I don't want to do because I need to make that bottom line and it might.

00:26:49.23
bret
yeah

00:26:52.11
Seth Macey
And then do you lose the passion?

00:26:53.68
Aaron
Right. And then it might not be as fun. It might have to balance the passion. I might have to put it down. Can you put it down? Can you actually put it down? And that's a very suffocating feeling ah that I fear actually is that feeling of like, you can't put it down.

00:27:09.35
Aaron
You can't take a break. You need to keep grinding and pushing because your live your livelihood depends on it. So

00:27:17.05
bret
Yeah.

00:27:18.57
Aaron
Either way, I feel like it's the rare person that's just like, Hey, show up. And maybe that takes years and years of work where you can get there and you have a team behind you. Um, you just met Chris Burkhardt.

00:27:31.05
Aaron
He's like doing projects he wants to do. And he's a team behind him, but I guarantee the buildup to that was a lot of stress and a lot of hard work and a lot of stuff he did not want to do.

00:27:42.96
Aaron
Right.

00:27:43.05
bret
Yeah.

00:27:43.85
Aaron
So I think, I think either way it's there.

00:27:45.09
bret
so and and No, it's a great point. And you know it's it's not like it's not like i yeah I definitely want to see Encore through.

00:27:55.48
bret
I mean, it's been one of the greatest experiences. Some of the people I've met and you know places I've gone and and all that have been unbelievable. it's It's more so of, you know, almost, I guess what I was saying is more of like, if I had just a choice from scratch of what I would have been doing my whole life.

00:28:15.65
Aaron
Right.

00:28:16.91
bret
you know like I wish, I know we taught used to talk about this, can I wish we had found the passion earlier in life um because yeah these younger bucks and young women, they have, they have yeah I know bucks, it's like totally showing my age.

00:28:35.33
bret
um They just have a head start and you know these people are like some of the video work and things are creating right out of the gate is just unbelievable but at the same time. I guess your passion is is a lot like your you know relationships where sometimes if you had started it at a different time.

00:28:56.20
bret
it wouldn't have resulted in the same, you know, present state of whatever your passion for it is. I mean, I know my wife and I are the same way. We always talk about God, we we met each other so late in life. um But we probably weren't going to work if we had met each other 10 years earlier because we just weren't there in our lives.

00:29:16.83
bret
So yeah, it's a good it's a good point. I i do.

00:29:20.06
Seth Macey
the

00:29:20.62
bret
I feel very grateful um for Encore and and for the fact that it does allow me the flexibility. And it is super fun most of the time.

00:29:30.87
bret
But when it's not is when you're really like, oh, I just want to be over the ups and downs, be over the stress of it all. and um But that's that's with anything.

00:29:39.11
Aaron
Yes, that's business.

00:29:42.29
bret
Yeah.

00:29:43.06
Seth Macey
Producers tell me we have a call online too. People are wondering why the share price of Encore is dropping. One of their directors is saying he's quitting to do photography.

00:29:50.73
bret
Yeah. Well, good thing we're not public. So.

00:29:53.73
Aaron
Yeah. Yeah.

00:29:56.33
Seth Macey
yeah nope You're getting into kind of like this pre-determinism concept. you know When people say, I wish that I had found this sooner, I always say, well, you found it now.

00:30:06.85
bret
Yep.

00:30:07.47
Seth Macey
What a tragedy to have never found it.

00:30:09.86
Aaron
Yeah.

00:30:09.87
Seth Macey
I think it's just kind of a nice antidote for avoiding regret territory or shoulda-coulda.

00:30:17.76
Aaron
Yeah. and On top of that.

00:30:18.25
Seth Macey
Just because it doesn't serve you, right?

00:30:20.45
Aaron
Yeah, on top of that, you're you're literally thinking about something that did not happen or could not have happened, right?

00:30:20.90
bret
Right.

00:30:27.58
bret
Mm-hmm.

00:30:27.83
Aaron
Like, I wish I met my partner 10 years earlier. Well, okay, you're you're in a fantasy land because that's not either possible, did not happen, and neither here nor there.

00:30:37.51
bret
Okay.

00:30:39.42
Aaron
Like, we're spending a lot of time wondering about a different realism, right?

00:30:46.48
Seth Macey
And you're assuming that the current state of joyfulness would occur where it could have gone south.

00:30:53.32
Aaron
Yeah.

00:30:53.43
bret
100%. Yep.

00:30:54.70
Seth Macey
Yeah. Yeah. I just don't think it serves us.

00:30:57.11
Aaron
Yeah.

00:30:58.48
Seth Macey
It's an interesting experiment, but I feel like people can get lost in it.

00:30:59.58
Aaron
Yeah.

00:31:02.46
bret
Yeah.

00:31:03.76
Seth Macey
I only found it. All right. Like I wish I had started this sooner. It's like, well, you're doing it right now.

00:31:08.13
bret
Yep.

00:31:10.48
Seth Macey
unit right now. And I think it's really admirable when you know you see the odd story of like, let's say like an 80 year old who starts, takes a marathon running and you're like, Oh my God, that's sweet.

00:31:20.60
bret
yeah that's all I might be looking like J.K.

00:31:20.99
Aaron
yeah

00:31:22.76
bret
Rowling. and you know There are people who just had tremendous success that didn't even find it until you know well past the second half of their life. um and no i mean It is interesting.

00:31:31.93
Seth Macey
Yeah.

00:31:34.49
bret
and and The amount of growth that you do in your 20s and 30s is pretty significant and just a life experience that you have. um So to your point, there are so many things that could have happened that would have either made it a ah passion that flamed out and flamed out permanently or a passion that never came to fruition um you know because it just wasnt there was nothing that actually triggered it.

00:32:01.90
bret
I mean the thing that got me into photography was my first trip with my now wife that you know six months into our dating had that trip not happened I don't know if there would have been anything that actually pushed me over the edge from always just liking to have a disposable camera on me so I had like memories to know I actually want to learn like the art of photography and get a real camera and stuff like that so

00:32:02.79
Seth Macey
Yeah.

00:32:06.03
Seth Macey
Yeah.

00:32:19.32
Aaron
Yeah.

00:32:27.37
Aaron
Yeah. And the fallacy with the what ifs is we keep everything good, the same, right? So everything good in our life, we keep that the same.

00:32:32.74
Seth Macey
That's insane.

00:32:35.04
Aaron
And we say like, this would be an add-on. So Brett, had you found photography 15 years ago and became someone, you know, huge in the, in the, in the landscape of photography or Instagram or what have you, there's a good chance you'd never meet Susie and have your dog and be in that beautiful house.

00:32:49.83
bret
All right.

00:32:53.80
Seth Macey
Start your business.

00:32:54.01
Aaron
And

00:32:53.96
bret
Yeah.

00:32:54.87
Seth Macey
Employ people.

00:32:54.94
Aaron
And take on board to the, yeah, to the place that it's at. So there's a and Seth and I say it there's there's no, you know, perfect solution sometimes, or most of the time it's just a trade off.

00:33:06.38
Aaron
Like there's, there's these trades, trade offs that you can have, but that's it. So you, you got to kind of take a look at the whole picture and be like, no, this is how I'm where I need to be.

00:33:17.43
Aaron
This is where I need to be.

00:33:17.39
bret
Mm hmm.

00:33:17.42
Seth Macey
Mm hmm.

00:33:18.73
Aaron
And what do I do going forward? Because thinking about how this used to be is. not serving anyone. And since the beginning of Instagram, in terms of like when I've joined, it's always been the same song.

00:33:32.39
Aaron
Five years ago, this was different. Five years ago, this was better. Five years ago, the algorithm was better. Five years ago, I got to see the things I wanted to see.

00:33:40.32
bret
Yeah.

00:33:42.53
Aaron
Five years ago, there were no ads. Five years ago, there weren't reels. It just keeps changing, but the timeframe's the same. Five years ago, it was this, you know, and it's like, We can always complain about what things were.

00:33:54.71
Aaron
It's Monday, morning Monday, Monday morning quarterbacking. It's like, like, yeah, it's easy to see what was worse or better or whatever now, but just who's the, who are the people that are going forward and moving and are alive today?

00:33:57.48
bret
um Yeah.

00:34:09.70
bret
Yep. Now I like that.

00:34:12.26
Seth Macey
It's a good thing I didn't pick a different co-host.

00:34:12.34
bret
It's a healthy.

00:34:16.05
bret
point

00:34:17.08
Aaron
That's right. I would have found you.

00:34:19.49
bret
What a cut of shit.

00:34:19.54
Seth Macey
Oh, and the keeper.

00:34:20.65
bret
Yeah.

00:34:23.09
Seth Macey
I think your comment too about, you know, the young box, as you put it with all this crazy video and stuff.

00:34:27.30
bret
You can edit that out, right? Could you say, I know how to change that?

00:34:30.35
Seth Macey
No, we're keeping it in. ah I looked at the camera thinking I was a young buck, but I'm not anymore. ah i was just thinking when you You also mentioned you know your 20s and 30s is such a developmental stage. it's yeah that What goes on in that stage is obviously different, though, for each generation. I think we have lots of generations that are serious in this space, obviously.

00:34:54.69
Seth Macey
And i think each one to stereotype and in a general sense has its pros and cons so you know the younger generation maybe whiz kids with videos and effects and but they've grown up with a tablet in the house in the time they were ten years old.

00:35:11.87
Seth Macey
right do Do they have your people skills, Brett, to close business deals and get investors? Maybe some, but I think it's just we can we can cherry pick the things we really admire about the other generations and forget all the things that we're awesome at. It's important to keep in mind, I think, and you you naturally practice gratitude that way.

00:35:35.29
Aaron
Mm-hmm.

00:35:35.78
bret
Yeah.

00:35:36.21
Seth Macey
And, and you look at those kids as I'm sure you do as, wow, that's amazing. I'm inspired. I want to learn that as opposed to like, damn kids and their stupid iPads. Right.

00:35:45.45
bret
Yeah.

00:35:45.66
Seth Macey
It's, it's more of, uh, yeah, it's more of less resentment more.

00:35:47.55
bret
alon

00:35:47.91
Aaron
Nintendo switches.

00:35:49.47
bret
yeah

00:35:50.80
Aaron
but um

00:35:52.14
Seth Macey
That's really cool. I may not naturally be inclined to this as you are as naturally inclined as is you are, but I want to learn cause I'm interested in it and, and reach my potential in that area.

00:36:05.30
Seth Macey
which is all you can do and ask for.

00:36:09.59
Aaron
Which is an amazing transition to one of my questions. Brett, we've described you on the show recently, even, uh, in bringing you up as one of the best networking people that we know in terms of.

00:36:25.52
Aaron
When I tell my Genesis story of photography, like you are an integral part in that sort of pumping up my tires, introducing me to people, creating groups, seeing what sticks, doing all these things, right? Like that is you. And I'm, I felt like I was the only person that you were rooting for.

00:36:47.18
Aaron
Honestly, that's the feeling that I had.

00:36:48.09
bret
That's awesome.

00:36:49.89
Aaron
Despite, I'm sure you son of a B were doing that with many other guys and girls. And I don't want to know about it and because I felt like I was the one.

00:37:01.17
Aaron
ah

00:37:01.88
bret
Oh my god. yeah

00:37:06.02
Aaron
However, my question is this. How important you have photography and you have people skills. how important for the whole picture, whether it's creating income in photography, creating business, where where is the puzzle piece for people skills in photography and what has it got in you?

00:37:33.90
bret
I might be premature to comment as far as like where that puzzle piece fits into the business part because the business part, you know, is pretty brand spanking new to me.

00:37:46.17
bret
um So I don't know how much, you know, monetary or monetary.

00:37:51.24
Seth Macey
What about with Encore?

00:37:51.30
bret
but What's that?

00:37:53.43
Seth Macey
What about with Encore in a case study that you've lived for a decade or more?

00:37:57.26
bret
Yeah, that is, you know, if there was a title relationship guy, I think That would be me for Encore and I love it. It's my favorite part of the business. um I love the human connection. i you know I have a ton of insecurities that I think have made me very empathetic growing up. So I think that also makes me actually really get drawn more to the relationship with people because I feel very appreciative of

00:38:30.42
bret
anyone in my life that you know sees past what I think are like huge insecurities or flaws and they're like, what are you talking about? Nobody cares. um You know, so there's just like, a I think that's why I like people. It's just, I'm appreciative of it. And that's where the emotional part of it comes for from. And for Encore, it's been um paramount. I mean, most of the, ah you know, 95% of the stuff that I think I've contributed would be in the um relationship space. I remember one of the coolest moments was when we had our

00:39:08.84
bret
Our first celebrity tournament that we were hosting that we put on. um I mean, it it was, you know, nine months of planning. It was getting sponsors. We had never done any of this. I mean, it was because we were having Anthony Anderson fly in and Josh Allen was heading it and allows all these big names from all over the country.

00:39:27.47
bret
And we had to book flights. We had to you know pay for their flights. We had to do all this kind of stuff. And so, of course, we needed to get huge sponsors because we were not going to be able to foot that bill ourselves and went off without a hitch. But the night before the tournament, we had a big VIP you know a celebrity party. It was so much fun. And of course, you know we had a videographer and I remember him The next day, being like, you're gonna love this footage, he said, I went up to every celebrity and asked them why they came to Buffalo for this event. And he said, every single one of them said, because Encore makes me feel like family. And I thought that was, I like i have said those exact words so many times to people that I meet at tournaments, when somebody is asking about the golf balls or

00:40:20.22
bret
you know at the PGA show or when I'm talking in front of high school kids I say you know we always want to make people feel like they're on the journey with us and um that they're not just like a customer a dollar sign like that they're really part of something and that we we care about them and everything and so for that to be repeated back without being fed was definitely one of my favorite um Happenings and and I was just like regardless of what happens with the business ah It could go bankrupt tomorrow, but like that part of it was a huge success. So I think

00:40:56.11
bret
I think taking that into photography is going to be really fun on the business side. I mean, I just got back Friday from Sony's Creator event, which I'd never been to, you know, just saw it on their on social.

00:41:11.95
bret
And I mean, talk about getting inspired and like just giving you a little shot of photo adrenaline, if you will, being around so many like minded people, because so many of my close friends could give two shits about photography. And I used to take it really personally, like how, how can you not care about something you can see that I am extremely passionate about to like, you know, this is an early days to even like throw a like on my phone, you know, I mean,

00:41:46.65
bret
Now it doesn't bother me at all. I totally get it. They're just not into photography, it doesn't matter.

00:41:50.62
Aaron
Mm

00:41:52.45
bret
um So it's really cool being around a lot of like-minded people and I think

00:41:53.86
Aaron
hmm.

00:41:57.78
bret
even being then not necessarily in a room with 200 people or 300 people that are photographers but being in the business I'll be having discussions with more people that at least appreciate the art form or appreciate ah you know creators coming in you know the talks I've had with the people running these Airbnb's that I did and that I'll be doing this winter and stuff has been so fun you know it's it's they get it they're outdoors people they um so it's nice to know that like they appreciate how you see the world and and so that's where i i do think it it

00:42:25.81
Aaron
Yeah.

00:42:33.32
bret
The more relationships we have too, if I think are gonna keep that fire alive. Cause it's more people that you can kind of keep in your surroundings and in your atmosphere ah that are gonna be excited when you talk to them about it rather than like, oh, I'm like the only person I know that does photography other than a couple people. And one lives in Canada, one lives in Connecticut, you know, what whatever. So I'm excited for that part of it too. And I do think that's where it will become a benefit.

00:43:02.08
Seth Macey
To Aaron's point about how when you two were talking or conversing, you made him feel like he was the only person at that moment who was important in a more nuanced sense. And maybe you can describe this. Maybe you can't. How are you able to give people that sense when you're talking with them, when you're communicating with them, whether it's a business deal or just a friendly interaction that they,

00:43:28.42
Seth Macey
have 100% of your attention beyond just like obviously not pointing out your phone.

00:43:33.82
bret
i

00:43:36.28
Seth Macey
I'm not talking about that stuff, but just how are you, do you feel like able to give that sensation that they are the only person that matters and really tying a knot on that emotional connection, even if it's a simple conversation?

00:43:50.82
bret
Well, I mean truly when I was talking to Aaron, I mean when I was talking to you like You were all that mattered, you know at that moment.

00:43:58.81
Aaron
Yeah.

00:43:59.32
bret
I I don't think it's something

00:43:59.64
Aaron
That sounds cheesy, but I was going to say the same thing. Like I think in that moment, he's so genuine.

00:44:04.92
bret
yeah i get

00:44:05.12
Seth Macey
That's why I said it might be hard for you to to describe because i it seems it's so virtuous, but I think it is difficult, can be difficult for some people to give that impression. and I think to add to this,

00:44:22.42
Seth Macey
You are very much someone who goes into a conversation or an interaction without the urge to come out the other side with something.

00:44:25.99
bret
Yeah, I get really excited.

00:44:35.03
Seth Macey
I feel like you go into a conversation without expectations, just, hey, I'm here to give what I can, whether that's my attention,

00:44:35.12
bret
Mm.

00:44:44.92
Seth Macey
my empathy, a great deal. Is that is that fair to say that that you go in interactions to give? And if so, how has that served you, that concept?

00:44:56.49
bret
um I mean, first off, truly, i like those are such kind words, and i you you're making me sound probably way better than I am. I i do i do think that my... It's probably partially i from having just so many like personal insecurities and things. From a very young age, like I had a bunch of surgeries when I was ah a little kid, and that always kind of rang on or you know hit hit on me hard. and

00:45:23.94
Seth Macey
Mm hmm.

00:45:23.95
bret
um So I think like first grade, I had six surgeries on my ear because I had to basically have it formed on my one ear. And so from a very early age, I was, I think, having this big personality and wanting to be liked so bad so that whenever what I felt was such a physical in deficiency or something to be you know insecure about, it wouldn't matter. So I think that's kind of where it stemmed from.

00:45:52.28
bret
But when you do something or you act a certain way long enough, it becomes just part of who you are. So like, I do think that whether, like the things that I, that I'm not insecure about, the things that I love about myself are all the things that you, you mentioned.

00:46:07.78
bret
So I do think, you know, luckily for me, because I do like that, I think those are very genuine. I, I, of course there's business meetings where you're going in with an intent and you hope to get something great out of it because, you know, there's never gonna be a person who's not selfish, at least some of the time.

00:46:19.49
Seth Macey
I mean.

00:46:24.36
bret
And I can be selfish a lot of the time. I'm also very, i you know, I can be, i I'm an emotion, hard on my sleeve kind of guy so that, like I said, it can be a good when I'm feeling really good and I can be, you know, pretty moody if I'm, you know, just really down, it's hard for me to hide. um But I think like, with, I don't think it's anything, I think if you're doing it just to like,

00:46:50.76
bret
do it and make people feel like it's like that, that can be people can be really convincing at it.

00:46:50.83
Seth Macey
Yeah.

00:46:55.99
bret
um We see it in politics, we see it in all sorts of stuff. ah We see it in daily life. But I think, you know, it's not going to be like long lasting, and it's definitely eventually going to be um figured out because they're not that guy or they're not that girl or they're not that person.

00:47:12.86
Aaron
Yeah.

00:47:14.40
bret
But if you if you genuinely, you know, do if if relationships with people of any kind are something that I, you know, are really just important to you, that is automatically, in my opinion, going to come out.

00:47:29.47
bret
And I feel really lucky about that because I feel like right now everything is so uncertain. um You know, it's a really It can be a really scary world and time and everything and I'm i'm really glad that ae that you know having people in my life and loving people and being loved by people is at the top of my priority list.

00:47:53.70
bret
um i I kind of feel like people are missing out if it's not. you know If that's not one of their main goals and a lot of their

00:48:01.57
Seth Macey
Yeah.

00:48:03.30
bret
They're dopamine rushes and stuff are going to be short lived and not from a place of purity maybe.

00:48:04.95
Aaron
Yeah.

00:48:08.39
Aaron
You see this a lot with Well, I guess there's two roads you can go down with ah insecurity, like it becomes your superpower, like the the polar other end of it, ah or something that keeps you down, right? Like you could have easily gone a different way of like, I'm gonna retreat, I'm not gonna put myself out there, I'm not going to interact, I'm not gonna emotionally connect because of the fear of being rejected.

00:48:37.02
Aaron
But instead it became like this, I need to connect and I better make sure I know how to connect in a certain way. Um, which is, you know, all in your own head and your own narrative, but it did create this, this thing where you are really good at and genuine at connecting.

00:48:54.88
bret
No, I appreciate it. It's funny because it was such an impact that, I mean, even through college, in college I took a public speaking course.

00:49:05.67
bret
And I was still so shaken, even though I had, you know, again in high school and I played every sport, um you know, I was pretty popular. Like I didn't, I never got bullied that I could remember ever.

00:49:18.26
bret
ah So again, this was all internal for sure.

00:49:22.01
Aaron
Mm hmm.

00:49:23.13
bret
But when it came to being in a room with people that I didn't have an opportunity to hide my insecurities and get them to like me first, where it was just like full blown exposure, you know, here you go, rip the bandaid off. I was ready for that. And I took a public speaking course in private with a professor.

00:49:41.49
bret
um who had Interestingly enough had a ton of insecurities growing up and then he overcame it to a point that he was teaching public speaking one of the best things other than the little moments of you know longer-term relationships where ah You know, I actually had discussions about it and and of course and a whole lifetime of friend great groups of friends that never judged me like of course I was always kind of chipping away at it and But it was encore that threw me into the fire um The first time I had to go on CNBC was fairly early on and I remember asking our PR people ah Hey, I don't know if this is even possible.

00:49:49.93
Aaron
Yeah.

00:50:20.57
bret
I don't need to be a diva, but is there any way they can shoot me from the other side and They're like yeah, I was like I'll just be more comfortable and they're like there's nothing we can do you know, really do about that.

00:50:33.15
bret
they have Their whole set and stage at the NBC is set up. And that was the first time that like the camera was gonna be facing my insecurity dead on the whole time.

00:50:44.05
bret
You know, I had to turn my head and look at the um the people. And that was like probably the best thing that could have happened ever.

00:50:51.99
Aaron
Hmm.

00:50:52.88
bret
And pretty much since then, I would say I went from like a stress level of here down to here over it. And now I don't care. And now I actually bring it up when I talk to like students.

00:51:02.31
Aaron
Mm hmm.

00:51:04.59
bret
um and do public speaking stuff because you know I related to how the technology in our golf balls is different and um how you can leverage you know your uniqueness and being different. And to your point, it's a kryptonite versus a superpower. For me, it has become it was a kryptonite in a sense, but it was always kind of fueling the superpower that gave me, I think, the best parts ah of myself.

00:51:31.98
Aaron
And surviving through those moments of, you you call that the pinnacle of, not to bring up another golf ball company, pinnacle of sock, by the way.

00:51:40.30
bret
ah ah Nice.

00:51:41.97
Aaron
but But the pinnacle of the stress of, wow, the camera, the first time I'm on TV is going to be pointing at at my insecurity at the, you know, and

00:51:51.86
bret
Right.

00:51:53.92
Aaron
again, you have you have a couple choices in those moments, fight or flight, like I'm gonna know I'm out of here. we're We're not switching. I can't do this. I can't do it. And that sends you down a road where that wall becomes stronger, right? That that block becomes stronger versus getting facing it getting into it and getting through it and then coming out the other side and in the relief that you felt like

00:52:20.17
bret
Yeah.

00:52:20.41
Aaron
not that it healed you but it took a huge it must have chunked away at that wall with a giant sledgehammer and let you feel like I survived and I'm looking back like at the at the video that that's that looks way better than I thought in my head it would look and I spoke pretty well and I made a few jokes and I laughed and I represented the company.

00:52:44.98
Aaron
These are all wins.

00:52:45.17
bret
yeah

00:52:45.98
Aaron
Like maybe this is bigger in my head than everyone else's.

00:52:47.33
Seth Macey
Right.

00:52:49.37
Aaron
And I need you to learn from this as a viewer that, oh, this, this, I'm so glad this happened. And I'm so glad I got through the other side because next time um I'm not going to ask about the chair.

00:52:59.90
Aaron
I'm just gonna, I'm gonna do my thing.

00:53:02.34
bret
Yeah, no it was, it was one of the great days.

00:53:02.98
Aaron
You know, and it it's again, it's those moments where you have to, you have to face it, whether it's getting a cabin shoot for your first time or a new company or, uh, being asked to run a trip or go on a trip.

00:53:15.00
Aaron
Uh, and there's, there's always that voice that's like, Oh, don't do it.

00:53:15.07
bret
Yeah.

00:53:19.79
Aaron
You might embarrass yourself. You know, like you have to tell that voice to shut up sometimes and, and give it a go.

00:53:26.55
Seth Macey
or you run forever, right?

00:53:27.88
Aaron
Mm-hmm.

00:53:28.93
Seth Macey
Yeah. I guess you just, you got blasted into exposure therapy for real.

00:53:33.22
bret
Yeah. Yeah.

00:53:34.66
Seth Macey
You guys are going to laugh at this. I'll share this. So one of my, I don't have many fears, uh, but one of them that I have been terrified of my whole life. You guys can laugh.

00:53:45.19
Seth Macey
It's okay. I cannot feel my own pulse. I hate the feeling of

00:53:51.92
bret
Wow.

00:53:55.49
Seth Macey
but like feeling my heartbeat at the doctor's office, the blood pressure cuff?

00:54:00.09
Aaron
Oh yeah, that is a weird one.

00:54:00.99
Seth Macey
Nine nine to 10 out of 10 anxiety.

00:54:04.61
bret
Really?

00:54:04.92
Aaron
Does that make your blood pressure spike?

00:54:07.32
Seth Macey
Yeah, so for the longest time, people the doctors have been like, you have high blood pressure. And I'm like, no, I'm just nine out of 10 fight or flight right now, sympathetic nervous system activation.

00:54:18.70
Aaron
wow

00:54:19.96
Seth Macey
And I'm like, so for the longest time, I'm like, whatever. i my twenties and my teens. Who cares? I don't have high blood pressure at 24, right? Unlikely. I turned 30 this past year and and I'm an active person.

00:54:33.62
Seth Macey
We talk about, I do running, hockey, all that good stuff. I'm like, I really don't have high blood pressure, but I need to know what this is at as I get older and it's a silent killer and it's so avoidable.

00:54:42.08
Aaron
Yeah.

00:54:45.07
bret
Yeah.

00:54:45.17
Seth Macey
Check your blood pressure too, people. Uh, so I was like, this is ridiculous. So I went on Amazon and I bought an electronic blood pressure cuff and I've been taking it twice a day for the last three weeks in the comfort of my home and just like repeatedly exposing myself to it. And day one, attempt one pressing the button just to get it to inflate. I'm talking sweating.

00:55:16.10
Aaron
Wow.

00:55:16.98
Seth Macey
like palms sweaty muscle flexed intense just just touching the thing i started with just pressing the button and turning it off right away or putting the cuff on and not inflating it and uh so to brett's point or story as well about exposure therapy this is a little bit different it's not it's insecurity as much as it is just like a fear I'm on week three now and I can throw that thing on and have no issues whatsoever. And it's funny how rational thoughts form. yeah While it's happening, you're like, you're not going to die. This is a sign that you are a alive.

00:55:56.56
Seth Macey
The results are good. It's just interesting how you can have such an irrational chemical response reptilian brain fear.

00:56:06.23
Aaron
Yeah.

00:56:06.51
bret
Mm-hmm.

00:56:06.55
Seth Macey
And then you get exposed to it in Brett's case one time very severely on CNBC or gradually over time introducing yourself slowly to things that are very, very stressful.

00:56:18.30
bret
Yeah.

00:56:18.62
Seth Macey
And over time it's like, huh? It's not like yesterday. I felt my pulse on my, you can see it right here. I'm feeling it. I felt myul my pulse and my rest.

00:56:24.36
Aaron
Wow.

00:56:24.34
bret
Yeah.

00:56:25.48
Seth Macey
Yeah. Yay. woohoo you Good for Seth. I felt my pulse on my wrist for the first time. I was like, holy that w I've been avoiding doing that small thing for 20 years, maybe more.

00:56:35.81
Aaron
Do you ever lay on your, do you lay on your side?

00:56:35.82
bret
Do you have any idea where that's from? Like what are you what you're afraid of?

00:56:39.10
Seth Macey
yeah

00:56:41.09
bret
Are you afraid, like, um yeah, what makes you afraid about it?

00:56:41.32
Seth Macey
So

00:56:44.12
Seth Macey
i so I think I know. so I've had this for as long as I can remember. and both my I think I understood from a very young age why. so I didn't grow up with grandparents because they all died of heart disease.

00:57:00.45
bret
Hmm.

00:57:01.55
Seth Macey
Like very, very young. I'm talking fifties. And I grew up, I think, knowing that from a young age without a very good grasp on what that meant. And just the concept that an organ beats nonstop forever and can just go at any second terrified me.

00:57:19.57
bret
Yeah.

00:57:22.50
Seth Macey
And I think feeling it is a reminder of like, oh my God, I think it's like a mortality thing for sure.

00:57:29.01
bret
Yeah.

00:57:29.79
Seth Macey
For sure. Because it doesn't bother me when I look at my garment and I can see the heartbeat. It doesn't bother me on like a hard run. It's when I'm lying in bed and everything else is still, the room's quiet and just.

00:57:41.50
Aaron
Yeah.

00:57:42.73
Seth Macey
Or when the cuff is releasing and you can just feel it, I'm like, oh, it was really like I, would I would put the stress now at a honestly a two or a one.

00:57:42.79
Aaron
That's what I'm saying. Wow.

00:57:53.87
Seth Macey
And three weeks ago, it was a nine, 9.5, like looking for the door wanting to run.

00:57:53.90
bret
Wow.

00:57:57.43
Aaron
wow

00:57:59.96
Seth Macey
So interesting story about me. I'm glad you guys hung in there, but it's, it's interesting that if you expose yourself to stuff slowly and in a reasonable way, it becomes not so bad and you can develop actual rational thoughts.

00:58:12.40
Seth Macey
And now the strength of this is I can actually monitor my health. Brett can go on TV and not feel bad about how he looks and he can speak.

00:58:19.16
bret
Yep.

00:58:22.28
Seth Macey
And it's the same formula for all the things that are scaring you in life, as silly as mine may be.

00:58:27.07
Aaron
Yeah. And for Brett, I'm sure you can, you can relate to this too. We're, we're old. Brett and I are old, older. Uh, we, yeah, of of course, because we take care of ourselves, golfers live longer, four years on average.

00:58:35.07
bret
Yeah.

00:58:35.22
Seth Macey
You guys look great. What do you mean?

00:58:42.03
bret
200, I think. Yeah.

00:58:44.29
Aaron
I just read that study. Anyways, when there's a nice thing about age is you get to a point where you're like, you know, if someone doesn't like me because of a physical attribute, I don't fucking care.

00:59:02.93
Aaron
Right. But that's, that's not with you when you're a kid. That's not with you in your teens. That's not even with you in your early twenties, when maybe you're like, you know, looking for a partner, like whatever it is, but there comes a point where enough people like you for your heart and like who you are to bring it back to Seth's point, bring it like he freaked out.

00:59:21.68
Seth Macey
the

00:59:23.99
bret
but

00:59:24.55
Aaron
He had to mute me when I said heart. I have to warn him. I give him a sign.

00:59:27.74
Seth Macey
The funny thing is I've done so many, I've done shoots at a children's hospital, sick kids, where there's literally cadaver hearts and I'm fine, but it's cause I'm so focused on what I'm doing.

00:59:28.62
Aaron
It's like a safe word.

00:59:34.00
Aaron
Oh my God. Yeah, no. Yeah.

00:59:39.29
Seth Macey
So I think the next step for my exposure therapy is like in an OR with a profusionist like redirecting blood flow.

00:59:44.64
Aaron
Yeah. Yeah.

00:59:46.49
bret
I like that.

00:59:46.60
Aaron
and Pulling the heart out while it's still she's.

00:59:47.14
Seth Macey
I just pass out.

00:59:51.24
Aaron
Yeah. You get, you get old enough and you get enough reassurance where that's a nice part about age.

00:59:51.66
Seth Macey
Right. continue

00:59:57.04
Aaron
It's kind of like the. the grandpas or the grandmas that are going to speak whatever they want, right? They say whatever they're thinking, like, I don't i don't give a crap anymore.

01:00:05.67
bret
yeah

01:00:05.83
Aaron
You know, and you you care about what you care about.

01:00:06.77
Seth Macey
Yeah.

01:00:07.93
bret
Yeah.

01:00:08.24
Aaron
And there's a nice part to to aging and sort of just accepting who we are.

01:00:14.35
Seth Macey
So on this question, I was going to ask Brett this.

01:00:19.82
Seth Macey
Are there people who don't like you?

01:00:22.59
bret
Sure, I'm i'm sure.

01:00:24.57
Seth Macey
So as someone who, it sounds like, I think in that story you had told about public speaking, you had said something, I didn't have the ability to get people to like me before I started talking.

01:00:24.63
bret
i

01:00:38.53
bret
That was in my head.

01:00:38.56
Seth Macey
said Yeah.

01:00:39.63
bret
I felt like, yeah, yeah.

01:00:40.18
Seth Macey
Okay. Okay. Yeah, that's fine. So to it sounds like maybe for a while there may have been a struggle with, I need people to like me. Which is fine. Do you feel like you still have that? And if you're admitting that there's probably people who don't like you, I'm sure there are. How does how do you how do you deal with that? How does that make you feel?

01:01:05.28
bret
um Well, this sounds really, It sounds very weird to say. I'm sure there are people that don't like me, but I don't know them. And that doesn't mean that it's because I've never, you like, I just, I am not surrounded, especially to Aaron's point is we age like our circle shrinks.

01:01:23.17
bret
So I am around people that I either have a long standing history with or share similar interests that we get excited about. um Yeah, in proximity and like,

01:01:34.12
Seth Macey
in proximity, right.

01:01:39.07
bret
I think the only you know people that i I could think of that like don't like me are probably people I don't like either.

01:01:43.57
Aaron
Mm hmm.

01:01:45.61
bret
And so there is tension. um Or you know through business. i mean we've had But those are all are all like ancillary people.

01:01:55.70
bret
Those are you know surface level people. Because for one, it was, you know so again, a lot of the people I'm thinking of are pretty much all like that have happened within the industry where I felt like,

01:02:07.97
bret
they weren't honest with us or we got wronged or you know they were doing something shady that I couldn't respect. like Those are the type of things that, yeah, I mean, it never really gets to a point of not liking somebody because if I meet somebody and we don't click and there's not like a reason, ah especially as we age, again, like grow the circle, that's gonna take a lot you know to expand the circle on more than just the surface level.

01:02:15.55
Seth Macey
So it's mutual.

01:02:33.38
bret
um because I mean I have a wife you know I have a dog like we have all these things going on I'm not going to just have another person I can barely see friends that I've known for 20 years that live literally five blocks away more than ah you know couple times every couple months um outside of like my buddy who, we you know, we have season tickets to the Bills game. So I see him every Sunday during season. Other than that, I think I saw him once over the summer and it's just because life happens. So you're busy. um Not everybody has that luxury. A lot of people, especially when you're younger, before you have any commitments, you're constantly going to be going into circles to meet people and figure out who is going to be in your inner circle. So I think though that like that question probably would have been a lot more relevant

01:03:21.41
Seth Macey
I see.

01:03:21.57
bret
um or easy for me to answer when I was younger because I was just exposed to a lot more people and there were probably a lot more forced interactions.

01:03:29.15
Seth Macey
Well, let me change the relevance then because where I was going with this is it ties into, I think what a lot of people struggle with as artists today with the digital world of sharing photos is like my stuff because it is a reflection of me like me.

01:03:31.36
bret
Sure.

01:03:50.03
bret
Got it.

01:03:51.07
Seth Macey
Do you feel that pull at times or no?

01:03:57.67
bret
What I would say is I think one of the the best things that happened from the hiatus Was that part which had always been a significant part like there were I was excited about Getting thousands of likes and excited about the hundreds like that was really fun when that stopped happening and I felt like I was getting better as a photographer I was

01:04:09.33
Seth Macey
Oh.

01:04:24.32
bret
totally okay with it. Now i get what I get excited about is like just curating my grid, my portfolio, the adventure.

01:04:31.62
Seth Macey
Right on.

01:04:32.79
Aaron
Well.

01:04:33.70
bret
I love like the the time of um you know making something that like a unique way you know i like maybe every five posts i do i'll do like the where i kind of make a ah whole design where it's going to be a carousel but i have a cover image and i try and think of some like to me really cool deep you know title for it you know seeking illumination whatever it's probably cheesy as hell but for me i love it and i love watching how like the different colors and edits from each of these photos because i do have a colorful style how they work well together or play off each other to me. My insights are are

01:05:16.78
bret
a joke compared to what they used to be. I mean, i the engagement's pretty decent, but my insight sometimes, I'll be like, are you kidding?

01:05:19.27
Seth Macey
Right.

01:05:25.70
bret
And I am constantly making sure I get rid of bot followers and everything. What's been nice is, sure, is there always going to be a part that you wish like you felt more people saw something you put so much effort in because you think that they enjoy it and like it?

01:05:42.53
bret
Yeah, that's part of it. I mean, you're your're there's oh I think anyone would be lying if they said that um they don't enjoy the feedback positive feedback of it. i But not having the kind of engagement and and adoration as before, i letting go of that was great.

01:05:51.77
Seth Macey
Yeah.

01:06:03.28
bret
And I think that i think that's why like It really came back and it just kind of took over me because I was like, oh, this is way more than about likes. Like this is actually feeding my soul.

01:06:15.09
bret
You know, like this is, I'm giving myself those likes by creating it.

01:06:15.53
Seth Macey
Yeah.

01:06:16.95
Aaron
yeah

01:06:21.53
bret
I love that. I love what I'm creating too. Like I'm so proud of stuff when I get it done.

01:06:26.49
Seth Macey
Yeah.

01:06:27.57
bret
If I could, I would print everything that I have and just have it everywhere. Cause I, I get really stoked about the stuff I'm creating, which then in turn,

01:06:35.21
Aaron
Yeah.

01:06:36.74
bret
makes me so fucking excited to go on another adventure or a trip and so incredibly disappointed when I can't for whatever reason and so I have to like be careful of that too because again Susie can't travel with me all the time um things are gonna come up where I might have to forego that and that's where like

01:06:46.27
Aaron
Yeah.

01:06:56.86
bret
you know, one of my things is I can be selfish and sometimes I just want to go because I know how good I'm going to feel. And that's not always the right decision. So um that's where like, the emotional intensity that I think I have can be a downfall times too, because then I look at like,

01:07:15.65
bret
you know weather being shit on a trip that I paid money to go on or something happening I look at it as way too devastating when reality it's like dude you're there you're enjoying you're still surrounded by people you didn't get one good sunset on this trip but guess what You were in the middle of the tee times for five days, whatever the case may be.

01:07:36.92
Aaron
Yeah.

01:07:37.57
bret
So it, it helps bring like me back to present and reality too, I think, because it, they are just there.

01:07:45.32
Aaron
Nope.

01:07:46.01
bret
It's become fun for so many different reasons.

01:07:49.54
Seth Macey
Yeah, I think when you, when you ditch the focus on likes, you give yourself permission as an artist to to be you.

01:07:58.59
bret
Mm-hmm.

01:08:00.19
Seth Macey
which is very freeing. And I think what you're talking about, maybe to a little bit of an, a little extent in the past was, and I feel like so many people still struggle with this. And this is part of the show is to help people get over this is people not liking your artwork or resonating with it is not a reflection of your overall value or worth. like people There's an emotional connection that goes from a lack of engagement to people. So lack of engagement, people don't like my stuff, they must not value me. And that's when it can get very maladaptive, I feel.

01:08:43.86
Aaron
Mm hmm.

01:08:44.78
bret
Yeah.

01:08:47.26
bret
Well, because one, you got to remember they don't know you, personally.

01:08:50.09
Seth Macey
Yeah.

01:08:51.05
bret
A lot of them don't. um And yeah, no, you're right. it's ah Social media is not good for that reason. And it's even interesting when you look at like the introduction of AI,

01:08:59.93
Seth Macey
Mm hmm.

01:09:05.16
bret
um you know what that's going to do to the industry. Because it's so easy now to like take something that either you don't have to create it all other than a prompt, like you'll probably get to a point where it is so photorealistic that it's like, oh, you know, I want a picture of a guy who was hiking on the top of Everest and make it look exactly like me.

01:09:25.16
bret
Or just something as simple as like, hey, can I want to totally remove this guy, put this in, do whatever. um I think it is going to eventually, if not already, there that like you see people start going back to old film.

01:09:38.30
Seth Macey
Yeah.

01:09:38.71
bret
like I can't remember who who said this. to mean I thought it was very true. They're like, and it's probably going to enhance the value of human-created art.

01:09:49.96
bret
Um, not that the cameras that we've been using for the last five years aren't already super intelligent, not like we're burning and dodging like Ansel Adams was, uh, you know, in a dark room. But I do think there is something to be said of like, I kind of like, you know, being somewhat basic with editing. Um, you know, I don't really use Photoshop, never have, uh, unless I need to remove something and I like kind of doing things one by one.

01:10:16.08
bret
I don't use presets. And there's nothing wrong with that. But I like kind of taking every scene and every shot and playing with each color takes a little bit longer. But you know, that's part of the enjoyment for me.

01:10:29.22
Seth Macey
Yeah, you will see the value in the create creative process.

01:10:29.85
bret
Right now, I think that's probably what Ashton thing is.

01:10:30.87
Aaron
yeah

01:10:35.60
bret
Yeah.

01:10:36.72
Seth Macey
I mean, would you want to listen to music that was entirely generated by robots? Sorry, robots, 50 years from now, please have mercy on my soul. Uh, as you scan the internet for traders,

01:10:47.97
bret
Yeah.

01:10:51.98
Aaron
People do eliminate.

01:10:51.98
bret
right

01:10:53.72
Seth Macey
Yeah, please don't. I've been so nice to you. ah You know, people will value that.

01:11:00.60
Aaron
Yeah.

01:11:00.82
bret
100%. Well, I think that's why your podcast is so important and why it's really cool because you're completely humanizing art. you know Every artist now gets to have some humanizing that they can share with the world that lets people know a little bit more about the person than the paragraph they might write once a year on their birthday to reintroduce themselves to Instagram. um you know It's really cool to kind of dive deep.

01:11:28.59
bret
i

01:11:29.01
Seth Macey
Yeah.

01:11:29.89
bret
which is why when an a and when when you had mentioned like, hey, we got to get you back on. And then I was like, ah so did you mean that? Cause I'm ready. Let's go. You know, I love it.

01:11:38.41
Aaron
I did.

01:11:38.96
bret
I love having the the conversation and and bouncing stuff off, off you guys and just hearing, you know, it's just, it's just nice seeing where you guys have taken this too.

01:11:44.99
Aaron
Yeah.

01:11:49.45
Seth Macey
Yeah.

01:11:49.59
Aaron
Thank you.

01:11:49.79
Seth Macey
And that's then. Yeah. Thanks. And that's.

01:11:54.36
Seth Macey
That's full of stressors too. I think the show's had moderate success and earn myself as a view. And there's a, as we always say, there's trade offs, there's more work to do.

01:12:06.15
Seth Macey
There's the stakes become higher. Mistakes can be more costly and uh, it, it gets to, it gets to a point where

01:12:12.89
Aaron
Yeah.

01:12:13.05
bret
yeah

01:12:21.82
Seth Macey
This sounds tacky, but you have to decide in a moment that you're happy as opposed to chasing it.

01:12:31.95
Seth Macey
Oh, when the show hits a million subs though, we'll be, yeah, we made it. I mean, we say, we say this all the time.

01:12:36.16
bret
Yeah.

01:12:37.63
Seth Macey
It just, where does is the goal, where does it end? Where does the finish line? I think when you understand there's no finish line, that's when you can have real joy.

01:12:41.41
bret
Yeah.

01:12:45.22
Seth Macey
i'm I'm starting to look at life as there's no, there's no, you've made it. There's no, ah, you've arrived. It's it's, it is, it is right.

01:12:56.12
bret
Yeah. It is working today.

01:12:58.32
Seth Macey
And I feel like, With that, with that concept, you can decide how to make a moment joyful.

01:13:10.71
Aaron
Yeah.

01:13:10.83
Seth Macey
I mean, save except for, you know, catastrophes and tragedies, which happen to people every day. But for the most part, you can decide that this is a wonderful moment because of, or how can I make this one?

01:13:29.19
bret
Yep.

01:13:31.98
Aaron
Yeah, it's very true. We have we have so much data and metrics and insights and how many times did you breathe today? Like you can you can get overwhelmed by it. And frankly, I like I like doing our part Seth, I like coming here and having these chats. um I'm not you're not barking up any trees of like, how many listeners do we have today?

01:13:58.39
Aaron
How many? Which show did that, you know, I think to a healthy, there's a healthy balance of that, but it's not, it's definitely not my, my main thing.

01:14:08.20
Seth Macey
Yeah.

01:14:09.12
Aaron
It's like, let's.

01:14:09.37
Seth Macey
Oh, then I'll send you stats and you'll be like, oh, that's cool. People people liked that or that resonated or that. Hey, we got a DM today that said this was helpful and here's why.

01:14:18.21
Aaron
Yeah. Yeah. Nice to know.

01:14:20.51
Seth Macey
So it's.

01:14:23.77
Seth Macey
You get you can get to a place where that is the the joyful experience that you can create art, a photo or something that is beyond you.

01:14:29.32
Aaron
yeah

01:14:35.28
bret
who

01:14:37.10
Seth Macey
Right. Whether it's for an Airbnb client or for a podcast listener or doing something kind for a stranger.

01:14:47.35
Seth Macey
I mean, it's, it's going beyond yourself. I'm sounding very abstract and I apologize, but it's tough to put into words.

01:14:56.85
bret
I get it.

01:14:56.92
Aaron
good.

01:14:59.90
Aaron
Yeah. And on, on that note, let's wrap up because I'm going to go spend some time with my family and my dog. And I know Brett's going to do the same. You got grizzly right next to you, Seth.

01:15:11.49
Aaron
We're going to do the same, but he's out of here.

01:15:12.70
Seth Macey
Yeah, he left. Actually, he doesn't like listening to me drone. Yeah, he listens to these every week.

01:15:18.27
Aaron
He's like this again.

01:15:20.48
Seth Macey
He says I don't take pictures.

01:15:22.60
Aaron
This doesn't apply to me.

01:15:22.75
Seth Macey
I'm not mindful of squirrels.

01:15:24.31
Aaron
Unfollow.

01:15:26.21
Seth Macey
You want from me to make a podcast about squirrels and tasty.

01:15:29.88
Aaron
Squirrels, red squirrels, gray squirrels, all the squirrels.

01:15:32.30
Seth Macey
All of them, all those small mammals.

01:15:34.62
Aaron
That'd be great. I wish dogs listened to podcasts. I feel like we could relate.

01:15:38.37
bret
they're the best

01:15:38.86
Seth Macey
I've played dog TV for grizzly before you guys heard of this. Sorry to cut your, yeah, dog TV on YouTube.

01:15:42.12
bret
yeah

01:15:44.88
Seth Macey
It has all these weird colors and the dogs are all running and like 100, they were filmed in 120 frames and they're so slow and play it for cap.

01:15:52.16
Aaron
Huh. Uh-huh.

01:15:54.21
Seth Macey
He'll just zone out. It's like they're on drugs.

01:15:58.76
Seth Macey
And they just, they just watch the dogs are moving in slow motion and they're like digging in the sand or running along a beach.

01:16:01.05
Aaron
Oh my God.

01:16:03.90
Seth Macey
And the colors they, i've I read that they changed the colors to make the profile more aesthetically appealing for the ah cone receptors in the dog's eyes.

01:16:08.02
bret
They're the best.

01:16:11.01
Aaron
All right.

01:16:13.21
Seth Macey
I try it.

01:16:13.41
bret
Interesting.

01:16:13.90
Seth Macey
They just zone out.

01:16:15.39
Aaron
I will.

01:16:15.39
Seth Macey
Knowing your dog, he'll jump through the TV and try and attack.

01:16:19.18
Aaron
Maybe, maybe.

01:16:19.92
Seth Macey
Not that he's, not that he's aggressive, but just he'll probably try and play.

01:16:22.91
Aaron
No, I won't apply. Maybe we'll see.

01:16:25.37
bret
Alex is a stud.

01:16:27.07
Aaron
I'll let you know. Thank you. So the handsome boy. Good thing he's handsome.

01:16:30.96
bret
Yeah, he's awesome.

01:16:32.16
Aaron
Yeah. Um, but yeah, Brett, thank you for coming on. Uh, some great insight.

01:16:35.73
bret
Thanks for having us.

01:16:36.95
Aaron
Thanks for being vulnerable and emotional.

01:16:38.90
bret
or

01:16:39.73
Aaron
Uh, that's, I know that's what you're good for. Um, but it, it does come across as very genuine and, uh, I think people could learn a lot from that.

01:16:48.22
Seth Macey
What you see is what you get, huh?

01:16:48.56
bret
Well, yeah, thanks for I mean, you guys really built me up today. So I'm going to be going home with a heart and ah and a big ego. My wife will probably be like, can you tell him to tone it down?

01:16:58.66
bret
Right. And that's how you get such nice things. But no.

01:17:01.56
Aaron
You just played on repeat an hour and 20 minutes.

01:17:01.80
bret
thank Yeah.

01:17:04.08
Aaron
Susie, let's listen one more time.

01:17:04.84
bret
it's Yeah. Can you send that recording?

01:17:06.28
Seth Macey
Two times speed, I promise. Two times speed. We'll get through it quicker this time.

01:17:08.40
Aaron
Yeah.

01:17:09.88
bret
Yeah, that's pretty much it.

01:17:11.98
Aaron
It's on surround sound in the living room.

01:17:11.96
bret
ah

01:17:13.55
Aaron
She's like, Oh my God.

01:17:14.96
bret
Yeah.

01:17:15.27
Aaron
Come on.

01:17:16.95
Seth Macey
Brett has an eye mask on. He's like, it's a form of meditation.

01:17:19.34
Aaron
Yeah. yeah

01:17:20.99
Seth Macey
He's got a weighted blanket.

01:17:21.41
bret
All right.

01:17:24.92
Aaron
Love it.

01:17:25.03
bret
ah Thanks guys. Yeah. Good to talk.

01:17:26.73
Aaron
Yeah.

01:17:26.68
Seth Macey
Brett, thanks for joining us, man. Everyone go follow Brett and check out his golf ball company, Encore Golf, if you're into golf.

01:17:31.41
bret
All right.

01:17:32.05
Seth Macey
ah And with that, go i so go listen to the very first episode.

01:17:32.31
Aaron
I am.

01:17:37.12
bret
Yeah.

01:17:37.26
Aaron
Yeah.

01:17:38.10
Seth Macey
from four years ago without Aaron, I've never listened back to the previous episodes. And um maybe I'll do this as homework because maybe I want a moment of cringe for me, not you, Brett.

01:17:49.12
bret
and It's probably gonna be for me too.

01:17:49.39
Aaron
Episode one.

01:17:50.56
bret
Yeah. Yeah.

01:17:51.66
Seth Macey
All right, till next time.

01:17:51.78
Aaron
I love it.

01:17:52.62
bret
All right. See you guys.

01:17:53.14
Aaron
Take care, guys.

01:17:54.25
bret
Be good.