Mark Smith - Finding Balance and Resilience in Life as a Photographer & Videographer Artwork

The Photographer Mindset

The Photographer Mindset is a podcast specifically created for photographers, and those who believe their purpose is to create, inspire and develop into their full potential. The photographer mindset podcast was initiated to help creative individuals understand that their success depends on more than just skill and dedication. In this podcast we learn to develop a winning mindset based on attitude and out of the box thinking strategies so that we can grow our clients, brand recognition & confidence. We want to work smarter towards our goals, not harder.

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The Photographer Mindset

Mark Smith - Finding Balance and Resilience in Life as a Photographer & Videographer

December 16, 2024 • Mark Smtih • Episode 248

Mark Smith (@mark.smith.photography) is a renowned photographer and videographer celebrated for his mesmerizing wildlife photography and storytelling. With over 2.1 million Instagram followers and 1.8 million YouTube subscribers, he has captivated audiences worldwide through breathtaking footage and a unique ability to bring the wonders of the natural world to life.

In this episode, Mark opens up about facing loss and learning to move forward using videography and photography as solace. He shares how he makes time for interests beyond photography and videography and how that contributes to his overall success. He also talks about the importance of not forcing situations and simply going with the flow. Lastly, we hear about his go-to gear selections in certain scenarios.

Expect to learn:

- to work hard at photography/videography while making space for other things
- how to navigate incredibly difficult times and find solace in your creative pursuits
- how to efficiently segment your time based on your own unique traits
- why forcing situations to happen is often less effective than "going with the flow"
- Mark's favorite gear for certain shooting scenarios

Marks' YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/marksmithphotography
Mark's Photography Workshops: https://photoworkshopsandtours.com/
Mark's Video Editing Master Class: https://mark-smith-photography.learnworlds.com/course/wildlife-video-editing-master-class

Sponsor:

Thanks to WhiteWall for being our lead sponsor this episode! They're the top choice for photographers who want high-quality prints with a variety of material options delivered worldwide fast in 9 days or less!

Follow WhiteWall on Instagram to stay in the loop about the giveaway they're doing with Mark: @whitewall_lab

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Thanks for listening!
Go get shooting, go get editing, and stay focused.

@sethmacey
@mantis_photography
@thephotographermindset

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INTRO:

00:00.87
Seth Macey
Hey, this is another episode of the photographer mindset podcast where we combine photography practices and mindfulness to make hopefully unique episodes. Sometimes it's just you and I, Aaron, my other co-host here. Sometimes we have on guests like Mark Smith. Holy, we were excited for this one today. And Mark was a pleasure to talk to. Mark is ah known as, I think, a master of filming ospreys and eagles and other birds. And he's we learned he's much more, you know. Let me start again.

00:37.30
Aaron
Yeah.

00:40.05
Seth Macey
How do we introduce what should I say about him? Because I want people to know who this is.

00:46.69
Aaron
um I think I would say we have Mark Smith on. You might know him.

00:54.51
Seth Macey
from his Osprey. Got it.

00:55.82
Aaron
Yeah.

00:56.83
Seth Macey
Hey, welcome back to another episode of The Photography for Mindset podcast. I'm your co-host Seth Macy.

00:59.95
Aaron
And I'm your cohost, Aaron Maness.

01:02.65
Seth Macey
And if this is the first time you've ever listened to our podcast, we blend photography practices, mindfulness practices, And we make unique episodes. And sometimes it's just you and I, Aaron, who speak. And other times we have on guests like today's. Mark Smith. We're excited for this one. You may have seen his Osprey videos across Instagram or YouTube, his other bird stuff. He is a much more versatile photographer, videographer than that. We talked a little bit about that.

01:32.26
Seth Macey
not feeling like you're in a box with what you're posting, but Mark has ah his hand in everything. He's doing courses, doing podcasts like ours. He's managing his social media. We talk a lot about how to prioritize and and do all that stuff and still have you know a life. We talked a lot about stepping away.

01:49.10
Seth Macey
From ah your passion your passion, in this case, photography and videography and how that's a means to be more efficient seems counterintuitive. Mark was just overall great to talk to. We had some vulnerable moments, which I think humanized someone who we all look up to as a photographer, especially if you're coming over from Mark's page. And what else do you think people should listen out to?

02:11.83
Aaron
I just think it's great to hear how we all have our challenges, how we all go through hard times and and how we persevere through it and it will be okay. You know, that's the, that's the message.

02:23.15
Seth Macey
and Absolutely. Quick word from our sponsor and then we're right into today's episode.

INTERVIEW:

00:00:56.94
Seth Macey
Yeah, of course. Right off the bat. Here's my first, first question for you.

00:00:58.78
Mark Smith
Yeah.

00:00:59.95
Seth Macey
You got an amazing YouTube channel, tons of insightful knowledge. You got workshops, you're running online courses, consistently managing an Instagram account, answering emails like ours to join our podcast.

00:01:11.96
Seth Macey
Here you are again. Thank you. How the hell do you manage?

00:01:15.36
Mark Smith
Haha, that's a

00:01:17.03
Seth Macey
Are there sacrifices? Are you maximizing your time? Are you like a pro at efficiency? let Like, let us know here.

00:01:23.89
Mark Smith
I would say I'm not a pro at anything. And and before this, I did not have gray hair. So that's a direct result of all of this stuff. oh um I think like in its simplest form, it's just kind of about living life to its fullest every day as much as you can. um But managing it, yeah, definitely is is hard, very hard. And I find myself a lot of times not having time to to do certain things. you know So you learn to prioritize certain things. And and one thing that I learned doing this that's hard and I think a lot of people don't prioritize is

00:01:57.31
Mark Smith
actually self care that you have to give yourself time to do the things that you want to do outside of this, whatever that might be, like the gym or meditating or playing music or whatever it is, you have to kind of break away from this because it's hard to it's it's easy to get kind of sucked in and not break away because you want to manage and take care everything.

00:02:17.88
Mark Smith
um But you you have to give yourself time so to move away from these things and enjoy some other things that kind of disconnect you will

00:02:24.12
Seth Macey
Right. Do you find it difficult to do that?

00:02:28.28
Mark Smith
ah For me, and and I guess my personality type, yes. I have to like and literally have to either schedule it or physically force myself to stop and go do something else that's not related to this.

00:02:40.33
Seth Macey
Right.

00:02:42.94
Seth Macey
I can totally relate to that. There's this, uh, it's funny. You see all these, uh, you know, we come across these things online where it's like work harder, grind, you know, hustle culture and all that stuff. But there's a group of people who are like that who need the opposite message.

00:02:56.49
Seth Macey
Go watch Netflix, go chill, go, go take a minute.

00:02:57.84
Mark Smith
Bitch.

00:02:59.40
Aaron
and take a minute

00:03:01.58
Seth Macey
Right? Like, I feel like the people who are absorbing a lot of the grind, grind, grind, hustle, hustle, hustle, hustle need the opposite at times. And I am speaking to myself and I wonder if you can relate to that at times.

00:03:13.15
Mark Smith
Oh yeah, for sure. like I think one of the things that fascinates me and is yeah Elon Musk. I know not lot not everybody likes this guy. But some of the stuff he does is fascinating. And like one of the ways he does kind of disconnect from his busy world is he'll go play Diablo.

00:03:23.30
Aaron
Yeah, take a minute.

00:03:28.71
Mark Smith
and

00:03:28.78
Seth Macey
This is ranked like number one in the world or something.

00:03:30.89
Mark Smith
Yes, it's crazy. But that makes sense. He's kind of disconnecting from all of this stuff. And he's just kind of investing his time and brain in somewhere else and kind of the same along the same lines.

00:03:36.59
Aaron
Yeah.

00:03:41.54
Mark Smith
I think you have to force yourself to do this every once in a while if you want to maintain both your mental and physical health like otherwise it can it can be bad.

00:03:48.87
Seth Macey
Right.

00:03:51.35
Aaron
i think of I think of any aspect of life as like a gym workout and photography, let's say, is the bicep. And if you're just working your bicep, And all you're doing is working biceps at the gym, like other deficiencies are gonna pop up. So you gotta you gotta to take a rest. You gotta rest that bicep for it to keep going, keep growing, not getting hurt, not getting injured. You have to move to squats or the legs or back or whatever it may be. You have to kind of balance those things out. Otherwise, you just keep going and you you'll end up burning it out. And I think with social media and email, like there's no

00:04:28.42
Aaron
stop time, you know, it's 24 hours a day, messages from all over the world, especially with a huge account like that just keeps on flowing. And you you almost have to segment your time to say like, no, I'm not looking at email from this time to this time, because like I need to do other things.

00:04:47.61
Mark Smith
Yeah, oh, for sure. it's like That's a great analogy, too. I would agree with that 100%.

00:04:52.94
Aaron
Well,

00:04:53.20
Seth Macey
You know, every gym rat who loves doing curls is now mad at us. so

00:04:56.58
Aaron
Yeah. That's all I do, bro.

00:04:59.53
Seth Macey
yeah

00:04:59.64
Mark Smith
good like day Come on.

00:05:01.34
Aaron
Girls love the girls.

00:05:01.36
Mark Smith
ah

00:05:01.42
Seth Macey
oh So safe to presume that you would accredit a lot of your success in videography and photography and all the things you have going on to actually taking a step away. I think we've identified that here for people who maybe don't know the more personal side of you, what are some of those things?

00:05:17.07
Seth Macey
I know you mentioned music, meditation, like like more nuance.

00:05:17.17
Mark Smith
oh So I like to read.

00:05:19.95
Seth Macey
What do you like to dig into to kind of keep your you head on your shoulders and stay sane?

00:05:27.04
Mark Smith
I read a lot. um

00:05:28.77
Seth Macey
Fiction or nonfiction?

00:05:29.96
Mark Smith
oh and

00:05:30.65
Seth Macey
Okay.

00:05:31.26
Mark Smith
i'm fascinated with both like ah Fiction is great because you can go into a fantasy world, you know and just completely Just be there and then I really love you know Biographies and learning about people that I admire like I think Anthony Bourdain's book is one of the best books I've ever listened to actually and I suggest that one as an audiobook because he narrates it and it's Fascinating to hear him tell his stories, but um that kind of stuff.

00:05:38.11
Seth Macey
Right.

00:05:52.11
Aaron
Yeah.

00:05:54.25
Mark Smith
I love music. I love listening to music I think music is one of the greatest gifts we have as a human being and in every way, like in consuming it and creating it, all that stuff.

00:05:58.01
Aaron
Mm-hmm.

00:06:04.90
Mark Smith
I love movies, like really good cinema, really good movies, um and the occasional video game. I played video games my entire life. So they're a great way to to kind of disconnect and unwind and and move away from all of that stuff.

00:06:21.24
Mark Smith
um And then like the silliest one too, like, I mean, you mentioned the gym, the gym is an excellent way to do that. Cause again, like when you go to the gym, you're kind of on autopilot and you know, you're just doing these, these reps and then your brain can kind of decompress.

00:06:34.45
Mark Smith
And I find the same thing if you just go for a walk, like a long walk is great.

00:06:39.14
Seth Macey
Yeah,

00:06:39.69
Mark Smith
Like if you're working on something, Like a ah video or like a series of images and you find yourself stuck. One of the best things you can do is just get up and just go for a walk for like 20 or 30 minutes. and You'd be amazed at what that does to your brain and kind of resets you and and helps you back in that creative flow.

00:06:57.20
Seth Macey
yeah for sure. It's amazing when you are struggling on something and then you take that break and you come back and like, I was struggling on this.

00:07:03.18
Mark Smith
Yeah. Yeah. I should have taken a break a long time ago. I don't know why I didn't write.

00:07:05.90
Aaron
Yeah, it sounds like everything you're describing is what you call like an active meditation, you know, like if you go for a walk, you're you're focusing on the footsteps, the feel of the pavement, what it goes through your shins, through your knees, whatever it may be, you're focused on one activity and that frees up the brain from that super focus on whatever else you were doing that video editing for 10 hours straight.

00:07:06.79
Mark Smith
Yeah.

00:07:29.65
Aaron
Uh, it just brings you to a different spot and gives that part of the brain a rest and a recoup. And then you can come back to a much more refreshed and sharp and like eager to get at it versus like, I've been in front of the screen where you're like, ah, am I, I can't like stay right now.

00:07:45.46
Aaron
And you gotta, you gotta take a step away ah for real.

00:07:45.50
Mark Smith
yeah yeah

00:07:48.09
Seth Macey
You just walk away from the screen sometimes and you can't see anything beyond four feet in front of you.

00:07:48.31
Mark Smith
Yes.

00:07:52.29
Seth Macey
because

00:07:52.60
Mark Smith
ah all the time I was just going to say that, yeah.

00:07:55.13
Aaron
Yeah. In my, ah in my office, I have above lights and it reflects off the screen. And when I'm editing, if I don't turn those off, sometimes I forget because I like the light, but there's a reflection that makes my eyes go like absolutely bonkers. And it it makes my fatigue, 300% I get fatigued with what I'm editing because I'm like, I'm just constantly trying to focus around these reflections. I got to fix that. We got to fix that.

00:08:20.96
Seth Macey
Let me ask you this, Mark. How do you, speaking of workflow, how do you get into a good state of focus and workflow?

00:08:22.21
Mark Smith
yeah

00:08:27.00
Seth Macey
Uh, are you eliminating distractions? Are you just throwing on tunes and chilling? What's that look like for you when you feel like you're really in the zone?

00:08:35.29
Mark Smith
So for me personally, it's a first thing in the morning wake up have have something decent to eat and a little bit of coffee not not too much on the stimulants but a little bit of coffee and

00:08:38.98
Seth Macey
Okay.

00:08:46.48
Seth Macey
Not to the point where you're shaking.

00:08:47.91
Mark Smith
No, yeah, not at all. but but And I would say like the next four hours are probably my best for creating. And I know that like by 11 or noon, I'll start to wind down.

00:08:58.78
Mark Smith
And yeah I can take a break and have a lunch. But I know from that point on, my creative process is just kind of spent for the day.

00:09:05.44
Seth Macey
Right.

00:09:06.20
Mark Smith
Yeah.

00:09:06.37
Seth Macey
i I like that idea of here's my creative window and here's where I know that I'm powering down. So this is where I'll do emails. This is where I'll do stuff.

00:09:14.87
Mark Smith
Yeah.

00:09:15.20
Seth Macey
It's kind of autopilot and and becoming aware of that.

00:09:16.81
Mark Smith
Yeah.

00:09:19.66
Seth Macey
I think we talked in the first little bit here about mindfulness, going for walks and stuff like that. Is that something you've developed or have you always felt like you've kind of known where your zones are?

00:09:28.47
Mark Smith
I think I've learned that just through time and through experience and through a lot of life experience that wasn't fun. you know Those are some of the best ways to kind of move past difficult times in life too, along with all of the things you love like photography and music too. I think they're all ah great ways to kind of focus on yourself and get into the zone as well. And like for photography too, it's For me, it's kind of easy to get into that moment as long as, well, I wouldn't even say that. I was gonna say as long as the activity is there. But like, if I go out, like, for instance, like yesterday, I went out to photograph some birds close to my house, which I will do usually every morning. I love the sunrise and to spend the time out there.

00:10:12.31
Mark Smith
But the birds were literally non-existent. There was no activity whatsoever. But I found the beach had these massive piles of shells everywhere. And I still wanted to take photos. So I just started taking photos of shells.

00:10:24.10
Mark Smith
But like for me, it was still kind of that process. How can I get a composition and use a light and all these things and still kind of scratching that creative part of my brain? um I feel almost like I need that.

00:10:34.68
Mark Smith
like That's part of my being.

00:10:35.39
Seth Macey
Yeah.

00:10:37.11
Aaron
Yeah, I have a very philosophical question to both of you that just came up from this is all of life is every aspect of life that we do a distraction or a respite from another aspect of life.

00:10:41.20
Seth Macey
you

00:10:52.14
Aaron
Is it just a kind of dance around and circle around. I do photography to get away from work. I go to the gym to get away from photography. I have a relationship to get away from loneliness.

00:11:03.96
Aaron
I have coffee to get away from sleepiness.

00:11:08.86
Seth Macey
Third point.

00:11:09.66
Aaron
Are all our rituals running from something else and it creates this beautiful equation, this beautiful math equation or song or whatever you want to call it that creates our individual fingerprint.

00:11:25.80
Mark Smith
I just, that's deep.

00:11:26.58
Aaron
Discuss.

00:11:27.53
Mark Smith
Yeah. I would say like, I think, I think yes. And I think the key point to this is it's a balance. that's That's where it's crucial. Like like ah you're saying, if you just do the biceps all one day, everything is out of whack. But if you can if you can balance all of these things equally, then you're kind of balanced yourself, as as you are, as your human experience is. But it would seem so. Yeah, like you're you're kind of leveraging one to offset the other and then vice versa. But again, kind of trying to maintain like a baseline the whole time through.

00:12:01.03
Aaron
yeah

00:12:03.24
Seth Macey
Not to get too dark, but I think there would be some people who would argue that it's all a distraction from mortality. But I like to take the approach of it's all in a quest for happiness.

00:12:08.98
Mark Smith
um

00:12:13.58
Seth Macey
Everything we do, you can relate back to that.

00:12:17.87
Mark Smith
Yeah, there's a lot of deep thought on both of those ideas.

00:12:21.88
Seth Macey
So rather than go down that for the next two hours, uh, I wanted to kind of just rewind.

00:12:22.02
Aaron
Yeah.

00:12:25.20
Aaron
Wow.

00:12:25.51
Mark Smith
yeah yeah

00:12:28.77
Seth Macey
You mentioned you went to the beach yesterday, hoping to shoot some shooting films and birds photograph, not shoot them.

00:12:31.73
Mark Smith
Yep. Yep.

00:12:34.18
Seth Macey
And the scene maybe didn't deliver what you had idealized, but yours, you were there anyways, and the shells were really cool. I think there's something to be said for.

00:12:46.39
Seth Macey
forward momentum in any sense. So I think Aaron and I have talked about this. I can't get my two hour gym workout in, but I can get 10 pushups in.

00:12:55.06
Mark Smith
Yeah.

00:12:55.64
Seth Macey
I can't get exactly what I want to do, but it's, it's worth staying for something. I think a lot of people could have the tendency to be like, ah, my ideal situation didn't, didn't show up. So I'm just going to hit, and hit, get in the car and go home.

00:13:07.22
Seth Macey
Otherwise like, what's the point? You know, what's your thought on doing something rather than nothing?

00:13:12.64
Mark Smith
Oh, uh, I guess, you know, I think it's important to to just kind of go with the flow.

00:13:18.46
Seth Macey
Right.

00:13:19.04
Mark Smith
Like, like, I don't know.

00:13:20.95
Seth Macey
I realize that's a deep question, but it doesn't seem like you're the kind of person who wasn't the the best or what I hope for.

00:13:22.93
Mark Smith
Yeah.

00:13:29.65
Seth Macey
I have other things I can do, so I'll just turn around. Why do you think you are that way? Have you always been that way or is it not always the case?

00:13:39.38
Mark Smith
I don't think I have always been that way. I think I've evolved to learn to just kind of go with whatever is thrown your way and and try to make the best out of it.

00:13:51.14
Seth Macey
Now, has that I know you mentioned some tough times. is that Have you maybe learned that through those? um

00:13:56.30
Mark Smith
Oh, 100%, definitely.

00:13:58.83
Seth Macey
like Without pressing too much, we we try to get vulnerable on this show. are you Are you comfortable sharing some of those or how maybe photography helped you get through those?

00:14:03.62
Mark Smith
ah so Yeah, but we'll go dark real fast.

00:14:07.21
Seth Macey
What's that?

00:14:07.41
Aaron
Yeah, and then we'll get bright.

00:14:09.34
Mark Smith
yeah yeah

00:14:10.02
Aaron
The life is shadow and light.

00:14:11.12
Seth Macey
i Listen, like we're all real. We all have struggles. Nobody has it all figured out. We've all dealt with terrible things. Terrible things are going to happen to us. Great things are going to happen to us. This is a human experience.

00:14:21.37
Seth Macey
And I think, uh, you know, having someone one like yourself on who has a very large audience, it humanizes us. And I think that's part of the goal of the show is to realize that people who are incredibly successful in their fields like you and who we look up to, like you are a human being and people can relate to that.

00:14:35.84
Mark Smith
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. um ooh So for me, it would be death of my two favorite people in the world. My brother, three years older than me, he died in 2015 of lung cancer. We were in a band together. He was a singer. I was a guitar player. We were pretty much inseparable. We were best buds. So that was very difficult to deal with. and like nobody kind of taught me how to deal with grief or any of that stuff or what I would be feeling.

00:15:04.19
Mark Smith
I took it day by day.

00:15:06.65
Seth Macey
Mm-hmm.

00:15:06.95
Mark Smith
Then five years later, my wife of 28 years died of a sudden aneurysm within 12 hours was dead.

00:15:14.33
Seth Macey
Oh my God.

00:15:15.59
Mark Smith
yeah so like and There's some good stuff in between all of that, like really odd when my brother, my blood brother, Brian died. um like three years later, my mom told me that I had another brother that she had had to give up for adoption because my grandmother forced her to.

00:15:34.80
Seth Macey
Wow.

00:15:34.99
Mark Smith
And so it was it was a weird flip, you know, and I looked at that moment as like, regardless of how bad today is.

00:15:45.04
Mark Smith
You never know what tomorrow might bring you. And the odds of it being something that are amazingly cool that you would have never anticipated are just as good as it being the other way.

00:15:55.57
Mark Smith
And i I've personally seen it you know go the other way. So to find out that I had another brother that I didn't even know about when I had just lost one brother was like really weird and surreal.

00:16:06.40
Seth Macey
No.

00:16:07.19
Mark Smith
But it taught me that. It taught me that lesson. But through all of that, too, ah like photography played a huge role and in both of those things. like Because I could go out and do photography, and especially of these animals, and kind of, in a way, live vicariously through them and see that like like the ospreys, if if on a given day, they might fail 15 or 20 times, but they never stop. they there's There's nothing that stops them. Even though if they lose a wing, they still try to just to do their best. And i I took a lot from that and you know told myself, like you know if these animals can do all of this too, then there's no reason why you can't you know can of get through these darker times as well.

00:16:53.64
Aaron
Also, I mean, the lesson from wildlife that I've learned too, you spend enough time out there and you're like, Jesus, this world is wild and cruel.

00:17:04.59
Aaron
like

00:17:04.78
Mark Smith
Oh, big time.

00:17:05.41
Aaron
he the As your slogan says, the fish. i mean

00:17:09.53
Mark Smith
Yeah, yeah.

00:17:10.51
Aaron
ah just just day to day or a bunny being ripped apart by a raptor. like not Again, not to get dark, but you if you spend enough time out there, it's it's not as cushy as we'd like to think life is.

00:17:23.62
Aaron
Where it's like, there's it's complete safety.

00:17:23.79
Mark Smith
That's right.

00:17:25.54
Aaron
No one's ever gonna harm me. I'm completely ah just immune from any of the darkness of life. But if you zoom out and take a look, you learn a lot of like, wow, I'm i'm lucky to be breathing.

00:17:38.52
Mark Smith
Yeah.

00:17:38.64
Aaron
just just in this moment. I really am because it could be so many other different ways.

00:17:43.53
Mark Smith
Yeah.

00:17:43.79
Aaron
Right.

00:17:44.53
Mark Smith
Yeah.

00:17:44.56
Aaron
So I just think that's a I relate to that point. I've had that shock moment, which is watching wildlife be wild.

00:17:52.28
Mark Smith
yeah And um I mean, through the whole process, too, you you you learn so much about these subjects, like you're talking about, and their daily struggles. And it helps you kind of realize that this is like a universal part of life, regardless of what you are, animal or human.

00:18:07.38
Aaron
Hmm.

00:18:08.00
Mark Smith
I mean, that's just part of the daily thing that we have to go through. And you learn a lot about yourself, at least I did, introspectively through all of that. And I found it extremely helpful.

00:18:19.73
Mark Smith
And I've had i've had some interesting experiences that kind of foreshadowed and and mirrored all of these things prior in the animal world, which was kind of a weird connection to have as well.

00:18:32.83
Aaron
know is photography part of your equation before 2015? Was that ah a big part of your equation or something that grew at that point?

00:18:39.98
Mark Smith
Yes. um I think it's when I like kind of like cracked the egg open in my brain and photography really showed me to see the world in a completely different way. like At that time, i had my wife my late wife had had this amazing idea to sell everything we own, get an RV, and just travel in the United States. So we did with two children and three dogs. And we did that for about nine months. And that, again, for me, was one of the coolest experiences I've had in my life, hands down. It it was an amazing thing to do.

00:19:16.14
Mark Smith
And that's where I really started to kind of, I don't know, kind of grow and see all of these different people, cultures, foods, animals, all of these things is like just constant stimulus override. And that's when I really started to do photography. And at the same time, that's when my brother kind of started to go downhill and we had learned about all of that stuff.

00:19:35.74
Mark Smith
It was kind of a just the way that the timing, the way that all of that stuff worked. And it's interesting too because my late wife, like she she did some weird stuff that is kind of unexplainable to me like this. like Her words to me exactly were, you know I want to be able to do this before I can't.

00:19:53.36
Mark Smith
yeah you know She had no idea that she was going to die in, I don't know, six or seven years. um But like looking back on it, I'm like, oh, it's almost like if there was like a some outside forest kind of just planted that seed in her brain and said, hey, you need to do this and you need to do it now. And she did another interesting thing, too, that I've found really, really odd. I have a portrait of her on my left shoulder and about, eh,

00:20:17.79
Mark Smith
maybe five years before she died, she came to me and asked me to change it to a sugar skull version of her. And I was like, that's weird. Why do you want me to do that? And she's like, ah, it just seems like a good idea. I was like, all right, I mean, I did it for you. So sure, I'll change it to a sugar skull. And then now that she has passed, you know, that's the way that the the Mexican or the culture honors people that have passed.

00:20:40.70
Mark Smith
So it's almost like, again, like she had some kind of weird insight that told her, ah, this will probably be better this way because I'm not going to be here anymore. So again, that kind of very bizarre things.

00:20:49.21
Aaron
Hmm.

00:20:52.63
Aaron
Hmm.

00:20:53.62
Seth Macey
Oh, well, thank you for sharing all that.

00:20:55.73
Aaron
Yeah.

00:20:56.43
Mark Smith
Yeah, yeah, my pleasure, I guess.

00:20:59.97
Seth Macey
Yeah, I don't know.

00:21:01.57
Mark Smith
but

00:21:02.68
Seth Macey
This all reminds me of a I was actually looking it up to so I didn't butcher the the quote from Marcus Aurelius. The wise man accepts his pain, endures it, but does not add to it.

00:21:13.83
Mark Smith
Yeah, that's great.

00:21:15.42
Seth Macey
I love that.

00:21:16.88
Mark Smith
Yeah.

00:21:17.68
Seth Macey
Well, that's so much and I think it relates here.

00:21:19.81
Mark Smith
Yeah, there's a ah really good song too that kind of says the same thing by, I'm gonna probably get the name of the band wrong. um a perfect circle. It's one of Maynard's bands, but the song is called Green River. And if you actually listen to the lyrics, it's about kind of traveling this river and just going with the flow and not fighting it at all and trusting what that final destination is going to be. And just whatever it is, you just have to kind of go with the flow. um So kind of the same

00:21:51.94
Mark Smith
I get a lot of stuff from that kind of stuff too, from music. you know There's a lot of power in music and it's a great gift that these musicians air their suffering for us to kind of vicariously process stuff through.

00:21:57.75
Aaron
and

00:22:03.49
Seth Macey
Right.

00:22:06.15
Seth Macey
Or relate to.

00:22:07.68
Mark Smith
Yeah, sure.

00:22:08.38
Seth Macey
Do you. You you've mentioned the term go with the flow a lot.

00:22:13.45
Mark Smith
Yeah.

00:22:14.30
Seth Macey
Do you ever catch yourself fighting the flow?

00:22:17.38
Mark Smith
Oh yeah, all the time.

00:22:18.59
Seth Macey
And yeah how do you queue into that?

00:22:22.76
Mark Smith
ah

00:22:24.62
Seth Macey
Things start going wrong. Do you start making mistakes or you're not having the same kinds of successes and you're like, oh my God, I'm forcing it or oh my God, I'm not letting things play out.

00:22:34.20
Mark Smith
I think for me, honestly, it just stems up in the form of anxiety, to be 100% honest.

00:22:38.47
Seth Macey
Got it.

00:22:39.81
Mark Smith
And and i'm I'm very aware of when this happens. And that's when I know I'm kind of i fighting whatever it is that that is the flow. And then that's when you hit like, if you can let go,

00:22:51.41
Mark Smith
you know then the anxiety kind of goes away as well, if that makes sense.

00:22:54.48
Seth Macey
Yeah, I think what you're really talking about is allowing the things you can't control and identifying the things you can't control and accepting the things you can't control, which is very hard to do.

00:23:02.94
Mark Smith
Yeah, and it is. like like you know I can sit here and tell you, oh yeah, I've done that, but there are many times I've failed, ah many times.

00:23:10.85
Seth Macey
but

00:23:11.65
Mark Smith
So it's definitely not an easy task.

00:23:11.66
Seth Macey
course

00:23:13.87
Mark Smith
I think it's one of the most challenging tasks of the human experience is to trust and in go with the flow. So yeah, for sure.

00:23:21.74
Seth Macey
Yeah, some sort of faith, whether that's religious or otherwise.

00:23:22.61
Aaron
Yeah.

00:23:26.52
Aaron
And that's what they call like meditation or practice. I think it it takes practice and it takes directed practice at that skill, that that brain skill of, ah I'm thinking, nope, come back to where I am.

00:23:29.17
Seth Macey
Right.

00:23:34.08
Mark Smith
Yeah.

00:23:37.64
Aaron
I'm thinking, nope, come back to where I am. And that that repetition is a muscle.

00:23:39.68
Mark Smith
Yeah.

00:23:42.39
Aaron
And the better you get at it, the more you do it under good circumstances, quote unquote, good, when something we start to go away, go away into that negative cyclone of thought.

00:23:54.35
Aaron
You're just better at being like, whoa, I'm making up a lot of thoughts here. Like I'm making up, I'm just going down that river of thought. And I need to get back to my own river and just kind of, I'm here now, I'm safe.

00:24:04.66
Aaron
I'm looking around like, okay, let's what can I do right now? And that's, that's, that's a tough thing to do.

00:24:08.40
Mark Smith
Yeah,

00:24:10.24
Aaron
That's a tough ask.

00:24:11.87
Mark Smith
it is I saw ah something on speaking of social media on social media the other day, and I don't remember who it was. But it was a very interesting twist on on the on the feeling of anxiety, or fear or pain, basically saying that the next time you are feeling anxious, remember the part of your brain that is like aware is not anxious.

00:24:35.18
Mark Smith
The next time you're feeling pain, the part of your brain that is aware of this pain is not in pain and try to be back to that place where that awareness just is like, and it made a lot of sense to me.

00:24:42.28
Aaron
Hmm. Right.

00:24:45.15
Mark Smith
I was like, Oh, I never really looked at it that way.

00:24:47.99
Seth Macey
Yeah.

00:24:48.18
Aaron
Yeah, that's a.

00:24:49.14
Seth Macey
Switching gears brought us into the social media world. How much time do you spend? Would you say, let's, let's use the big app, Instagram.

00:24:56.30
Mark Smith
oh

00:24:56.82
Seth Macey
Uh, and of that time, be honest. And of that time, how much do you spend, I guess, focusing on your own content, that being posting, replying to comments, DMA, et cetera, versus just consumption, whether for enjoyment, inspiration, et cetera.

00:25:12.20
Mark Smith
Oh, a lot. I, uh, hmm. I try to post if I can at least once a day, sometimes twice. Um, I don't know if that's a lot for everyone else, but for me, that is like, yeah, it's because I want it to be good.

00:25:25.91
Seth Macey
That's a lot.

00:25:27.89
Aaron
Yeah.

00:25:28.81
Mark Smith
And I want it to try to show something to people that maybe they've never seen or experienced before. And then I want to kind of either. make it philosophical or humorous, one one of the two. you know So there's there a lot of thinking involved. um And then kind of dropping that same content on multiple platforms. And then kind of circling back. I know you're asked about time. I'm i'm just trying to get this all in my brain. Circling back and taking care of the post from the prior day and all the questions that might have existed from the prior day's post and kind of going in and then and letting people know that

00:26:03.37
Mark Smith
I'm not actually a bot that I can actually respond to them in the way that they want.

00:26:06.43
Seth Macey
Right.

00:26:07.02
Aaron
yeah

00:26:09.21
Mark Smith
But I would say just in the morning, and this is probably a ah bad habit, um trying to get that first thing up, it could be 30 minutes to an hour trying to get that together just to put it up there.

00:26:22.82
Mark Smith
And then like for me, but like what I like to do, because I go out early in the morning, and is I might just drop it all on social media, and then that's my disconnect. I'm not going back there until maybe later in the afternoon.

00:26:34.05
Mark Smith
And then I'll go back out and do my thing, collect more content, so to speak, and then come back, and then maybe dive back in and see what has evolved.

00:26:34.09
Seth Macey
Right.

00:26:39.18
Seth Macey
Yeah.

00:26:43.23
Mark Smith
And I and like to look, too, at every post literally as an experiment, like try to change something that you can and just kind of see what happens with it.

00:26:49.32
Seth Macey
Okay.

00:26:54.14
Mark Smith
And I mean, it's free to do. So I mean, I would say with the goal of probably getting a better response or just to see how people respond to certain things, whatever it is that you might have changed.

00:26:57.41
Seth Macey
With the goal of getting a better response, getting more views,

00:27:13.52
Mark Smith
Um, like, uh, to bring up any kind of negativity is weird, but I get some negativity because I actively watermark my stuff with with a banner just for like a second or two, um, to try to alleviate the thievery that happens.

00:27:13.71
Seth Macey
Right.

00:27:26.69
Seth Macey
Mm hmm.

00:27:28.62
Mark Smith
And some people are very vocal about how much they hate that, that it just ruins the entire 30 second clip, like a one second thing on there. And then I'm like, I'm an egotistical prick for advertising my name.

00:27:41.36
Seth Macey
I can't see the bird. Where is it?

00:27:43.23
Mark Smith
right

00:27:43.37
Seth Macey
It's blocked by the watermark.

00:27:44.93
Aaron
Those are the same people, those are the same people that want to steal it.

00:27:45.39
Mark Smith
yeah Exactly. Yeah, yeah, right, right, right. So it's weird. And I got creative with that for a little bit and had fun with it. I literally took like 30 selfies, like really goofy pictures of myself, like, ooh.

00:27:54.49
Seth Macey
right

00:27:59.63
Mark Smith
And I would just make that pop up at the bottom and literally say, here's your watermark. It was literally me going, ah, just for a second in the bottom screen somewhere. And that that was fun to to play with all the the haters that were doing all that.

00:28:11.54
Aaron
Yeah, you gotta have fun with it.

00:28:12.22
Seth Macey
Yeah. And you can't please everybody.

00:28:12.91
Mark Smith
Yeah.

00:28:13.86
Seth Macey
I think that's an important important ah concept.

00:28:16.00
Mark Smith
yeah

00:28:17.06
Seth Macey
as As you grow, whether that's in numbers or you know in popularity, you start to not be able to please everybody. and I feel Aaron and I have talked about this. You get to a size where people, especially behind keyboards, the negativity is just so easy to check out because you become like not a human almost.

00:28:34.10
Mark Smith
and Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

00:28:37.78
Seth Macey
Do you know what I'm saying?

00:28:38.00
Mark Smith
Oh, yeah, for sure.

00:28:39.19
Aaron
Yeah, you get more eyes and just the statistics of people that suck. It just increases. You're just in front of more people that want to just chop you down or spend their time.

00:28:51.44
Aaron
hating online.

00:28:52.23
Mark Smith
yeah

00:28:52.86
Aaron
So you got to be able to sift those. Seth and I might get something once a year, you know, if you have millions of people seeing it, you're going to probably get it once a week, maybe once a day, who knows?

00:28:55.81
Mark Smith
Yeah.

00:29:04.68
Mark Smith
yeah it's daily Yeah.

00:29:04.95
Aaron
um But yeah, it's daily.

00:29:07.58
Seth Macey
How do you deal with that? Do you just, whatever.

00:29:11.12
Mark Smith
Yeah.

00:29:11.36
Seth Macey
We can take it personally, right?

00:29:11.89
Mark Smith
Yeah.

00:29:12.86
Seth Macey
Like we can have the tendency to take it personally. Aaron and I have struggled with this a little bit as the podcast has grown. Like you get a bad review and you're like, oh man, I want everybody to love us, but it's just not possible.

00:29:21.30
Mark Smith
yeah Um, generally the rule for me is don't feed the trolls. Uh, but every once in a while I will like, I'll go in and rage bait them just because I know what they're going to do.

00:29:34.12
Mark Smith
And then I'm out. I'm just, I'm never even go back there and look, and they just get in this cycle of hate and spewing all their stuff. And I'm no longer part of it. I don't do that all the time, but sometimes I do.

00:29:43.61
Aaron
Yeah.

00:29:45.79
Seth Macey
Yeah.

00:29:46.38
Mark Smith
And and depending on the level of like. Their negativity, most of it I'll let ride, just whatever, it is what it is. You're allowed to have your your your views. But if they get into like hateful stuff, I'll just go block them and remove the whole thread of whatever it is.

00:29:57.45
Seth Macey
Right, of course.

00:30:00.42
Aaron
Yeah.

00:30:02.47
Seth Macey
Yeah, you can control your peace in that sense.

00:30:04.80
Mark Smith
Yeah, right. like yeah I mean, there's enough negativity out in the world. We don't don't need to slather it all over this stuff too, so.

00:30:10.71
Seth Macey
We definitely don't.

00:30:11.53
Aaron
No. All over birds hunting fish.

00:30:12.74
Seth Macey
the and

00:30:14.06
Mark Smith
Yeah, right.

00:30:16.09
Aaron
Come on, is nothing sacred anymore?

00:30:18.58
Mark Smith
No, apparently not.

00:30:19.27
Aaron
No.

00:30:20.09
Mark Smith
But like to to flip it, with that said, that's a minority. It's like 2% or 3% of the activity.

00:30:25.96
Aaron
Yeah.

00:30:26.55
Mark Smith
and And the other is fantastic.

00:30:26.61
Seth Macey
right

00:30:28.82
Mark Smith
I have i've made friends with people all over the world. And I have this network of people that are friends all over the world. And it's it's fantastic. It's one of the coolest things, I i think, that comes as like a perk from doing this, is that friendship that you can build with people all over the world.

00:30:42.00
Seth Macey
Oh of course

00:30:45.94
Seth Macey
Of course. So going back to how you put your face up as a watermark, that's ah that's a demonstration of not taking yourself too seriously. But of course, this photography videography is serious to you in some sense, right?

00:30:59.40
Seth Macey
Like you run courses, you do sell merch, you do all these things.

00:31:00.80
Mark Smith
Yeah, for sure.

00:31:03.33
Seth Macey
ah So I think a lot of people, including myself, at times struggle with how do you find the balance between, I'm serious about this and I need to be professional versus like, I'll check my face up on a watermark. Hahaha. yeah

00:31:14.23
Mark Smith
who I don't think you can ever be too serious about any other like you just have to again kind of get this part of the flow like when you get too serious I think it's dry and it's then it becomes like non-human You need to have that human element of whatever that personality is, you know?

00:31:32.95
Mark Smith
So I know when we do workshops, I've had a lot of people tell me that, oh, your workshops are different. They're they're they're actually more fun because you guys are joking all the time and like, you know, having a good time instead of like, like always running, running, running and and kind of like drill sergeant and people to death about like their settings and their stuff.

00:31:42.60
Seth Macey
Right.

00:31:51.08
Mark Smith
it's all It's all about having a good time.

00:31:51.19
Aaron
Yeah.

00:31:54.39
Seth Macey
Yeah, I totally feel that. I totally feel that. Uh, what are some people, what are some things people maybe don't know about having a large audience the size of yours? I think everyone's gunning for numbers like that.

00:32:11.06
Mark Smith
I would say like the the weirdest thing that I did not anticipate, and I was actually talking about this with some friends the other day, ah how it confines you in a space of you have to be very, very careful of everything you say and do out in public.

00:32:32.34
Mark Smith
People will will do weird things and they'll take things out of context just to try to to tear you down. like Like for instance, it's not unusual if you're hiking off in the middle of the woods to go to the bathroom.

00:32:43.73
Mark Smith
You gotta go to the bathroom, you gotta go to the bathroom. There's no bathrooms anywhere. But I can't really do that because there are so many people watching me now. They're gonna take photos of me and they're gonna go, look at this guy, he took a whiz on this sacred tree.

00:32:55.89
Mark Smith
How dare him? like I'm not joking. like That but level of weirdness exists.

00:33:00.55
Seth Macey
I was just watering it.

00:33:01.42
Aaron
yeah

00:33:01.47
Seth Macey
It was dry. It was a drought.

00:33:02.30
Mark Smith
and Right, right. And it's something that I never anticipated. And and I think like on my level, to me, it's still small compared to say like somebody like Brad Pitt or Tom Cruise.

00:33:06.52
Seth Macey
Right?

00:33:14.90
Mark Smith
I don't know how they have any type of normal life. And like I can understand why some people would get angry with the paparazzi or all that stuff.

00:33:22.93
Aaron
Yeah.

00:33:23.61
Mark Smith
But for me, I think that's the the weirdest aspect that I never anticipated was that. Now you got to be really careful.

00:33:31.69
Aaron
Did you learn that from like actual lessons of people calling out certain things, not necessarily being on a tree.

00:33:35.57
Mark Smith
yeah um

00:33:38.97
Aaron
We won't, we're not, we're not condemning you for that, but, uh, but from certain things, or is it, is it fear based?

00:33:41.50
Mark Smith
um yeah yeah yeah umm

00:33:42.94
Seth Macey
I didn't want a tree or two. It happens.

00:33:45.81
Aaron
Is it fear based where it's like, I just don't want this to blow up. I don't want people to. have the wrong view of me or try to knock me down? Or is it actual experiences where you're like, damn like

00:33:58.19
Mark Smith
No, totally totally experiences. I went, I think one of the first times was I went to San Juan Island to photograph some foxes. It's a really cool place where they brought, but it's an island, you know, so everything is stuck on the island, nothing can leave or change or involve. The people brought in rabbits, the rabbits got out of hand, eat some kind of grass that was valuable, and then they brought in foxes to take care of the rabbits. And now there's like this really weird ecosystem where you have lots of rabbits, you have lots of foxes, and you have these eagles that come in and prey on both.

00:34:27.17
Mark Smith
so you have these really cool interactions between these animals.

00:34:29.76
Aaron
Jesus.

00:34:31.11
Mark Smith
um And it's it's pretty popular and like anything else in life there's always going to be some people who do bad things and there are some people that go out there and into the places you're not supposed to go and like harass the foxes or get right on top of them or feed them or are these kinds of things.

00:34:47.39
Mark Smith
But I went to this place the very first time And I went to an area in a public park where there was a fox in, and there was about six or eight of us photographing these foxes. One of the most peaceful experiences I've ever had. Everybody's just having a good time watching these little baby foxes play. And somebody in the area didn't like this group of photographers being there.

00:35:08.76
Mark Smith
like The island life is very private. they don't They don't want all of these people coming into the island and even though it's a public place and we weren't really doing anything. and they they took they were They were tricky about how they did this.

00:35:20.41
Mark Smith
they They used a telephoto lens and they got really far away. and They took a picture of this group of photographers and it compressed it so it looked like we were all right on top of each other, right on top of these foxes.

00:35:28.13
Aaron
Mm-hmm.

00:35:31.88
Mark Smith
Whereas if you had looked at an aerial view, there was like three people here, like over this way, and then three people here, and then three people here, and three people here, and the foxes were way over here. But because of the angle that they shot it, it put us all like in one group, like you know how these telephoto lenses do.

00:35:45.84
Aaron
Yeah.

00:35:46.39
Mark Smith
And they they alerted the press, and the press got involved, and the press just ran with it. They didn't even like try to validate any of it. um And then somehow my name got in there and it was all my fault every bit of it was done by me all these people I brought them all there and I had no idea who any of the people were I went there by myself I had just met these people that time and I started getting attacked online like specifically Facebook there was a ah group of people that were attacking me and again I just like whatever I i can't

00:36:08.95
Seth Macey
Hmm.

00:36:18.51
Aaron
Yeah.

00:36:18.56
Mark Smith
I don't have time for this. I don't i really don't.

00:36:19.79
Seth Macey
Yeah.

00:36:21.67
Mark Smith
And they didn't stop until somebody, their local, went to them and said, hey, that's not actually what happened. This is what happened. The paper just ran with it. And it's none of it's really true at all.

00:36:33.57
Mark Smith
so oh yeah um And I've seen like like instances like this a couple of times.

00:36:34.50
Seth Macey
yeah

00:36:34.55
Aaron
yeah

00:36:39.27
Mark Smith
There was a time I was in New York. On a beach trying to photograph snowy owls and I had come around the side trail and in front of me about 50 yards was a big sign that said stay off the dunes and somebody took a photo of me with a telephoto and Compressed it and it made it look like I was in front of the sign and they you know, look at this asshole.

00:37:01.34
Mark Smith
I he's out here thinking he can do whatever he wants and I was like 50 yards behind the sign so I couldn't even see the sign for one and I was on a trail that just zipped behind the sign but they shot it in such a way that you know to shed a negative light on me and I was like this is just this is crazy this I don't but yes there's been experiences where you have to be yeah you have to be careful so

00:37:23.65
Aaron
is Is that stuff, we're not at that level, is that stuff damaging? Does it feel like... Is it just like, here's another stupid thing that I'm going to ignore and move on? Or do you feel like it is, it is damaging and there has to be damage control?

00:37:40.32
Mark Smith
ah I don't think it's damaging and in the sense, like I think it's best to just let it go and just continue to do whatever it is you do.

00:37:47.67
Seth Macey
Yeah.

00:37:50.39
Mark Smith
And just again, just go with the flow.

00:37:53.89
Aaron
Yeah. Yeah.

00:37:54.35
Mark Smith
there's you You're better off putting your efforts into what you do than to go backwards and try to defend yourself to these people. It doesn't make any sense.

00:38:02.25
Seth Macey
It just makes it worse in a sense, doesn't it?

00:38:02.50
Mark Smith
like

00:38:03.80
Aaron
Yeah, yeah.

00:38:04.22
Mark Smith
Yeah, yeah, i I know the truth, you know, that I was so I don't I don't need to prove any of it to any of you.

00:38:07.44
Seth Macey
Right.

00:38:11.14
Mark Smith
So whatever.

00:38:12.69
Seth Macey
Yeah.

00:38:12.80
Aaron
Yeah, along those lines of Seth's question with a big following, I think there's a lot of it was along the lines of like what comes with

00:38:17.09
Seth Macey
What was my question again? I forget.

00:38:21.69
Aaron
um

00:38:21.74
Seth Macey
Oh, got it.

00:38:22.51
Aaron
big following. But so this is another what comes with a big following. I think there's a lot of people in the social media world that go like, I just got to get to 30,000 followers. I just got to get to 50,000. I got to get to 100,000. And when's that stop? And therere I think at the end of that thought for a lot of people is that if I get to 100,000, all these companies are going to start coming to me and I don't have to do any work. I can just live off the fruits of my following. I'm curious as you grow, is it an onslaught of opportunity, even with 2. whatever million it is, is it an onslaught of opportunity and people throwing money at you or do you still have to do the work?

00:39:09.49
Mark Smith
Oh no, you do twice the work. Easily.

00:39:12.92
Aaron
Explain, explain.

00:39:14.27
Mark Smith
Yeah, well, it becomes more involved having to, well well, first of all, any of the opportunities that do come your way. 70% of them are complete bogus, or they're garbage. So you have to really spend a lot of time learning how to filter through um these things. And I can tell you one that's really popular, at least popular from me, like these people come to me a lot, there are a lot of podcast people. Wait, wait, wait, this this is funny.

00:39:47.41
Mark Smith
they're They're not actually who they say they are. like They'll say, I work for, and then there'll be some you know podcast place. And they'll have, they're very clever how they do this. They'll have an email that like even has like a domain with the podcast person's name in it, and they want you to come do their podcast. And you know I've done this enough now to kind of smell it almost immediately, at least I think. Then again, I might be deleting a bunch of podcast interviews, I don't know.

00:40:13.90
Mark Smith
but but But it's weird. So they'll they'll say, yeah, we want to do a podcast. We're going to do it live through, usually the red flag is live through Facebook or live through Instagram. And that's usually, to me, the red flag. And what they're trying to do is, um and the only reason I know this is because I fell for it one time. they They're trying to get you into the backend of your meta business manager to where you expose some kind of faulty link that they can then grab and then control your account. And from that point, like they've they've done it.

00:40:43.98
Mark Smith
So for me, what happened, I can tell you this story really quick. um I had done some advertising with some companies that had to actually come into my Facebook business manager and have certain assets and controls to be able to run ads on my Facebook page. So when this podcast person came to me after I'd already done a couple of podcasts,

00:41:02.25
Mark Smith
Me, I'm like, oh yeah, neat. This is cool. I can just do another podcast. It was the same type of Zoom call to where they're like, yeah, we need to go into the backend and set up these things. I'm like, okay, I've done this for ads.

00:41:13.84
Mark Smith
And what they had me do was actually copy some link that they were aware of. I don't even remember what it was and publicly post it as a test. And as soon as I did that, they went to the page, that link gave them complete access and they locked me out and deleted all of my credentials immediately.

00:41:28.92
Aaron
Wow.

00:41:29.87
Seth Macey
What happened?

00:41:29.90
Mark Smith
And then I got, I got an email within five minutes that said, Hey, we have your Facebook account. You know, we're demanding a ransom of some absurd amount of money. And my reply was a keep it. I don't, I don't really care. I'll make another one. Like it whatever.

00:41:44.60
Aaron
Mm hmm.

00:41:45.03
Mark Smith
um But in the in the background, I went to Facebook, and i I told them what was going on. And it took Facebook about two weeks to root them out of there and get them out. um So now I'm very leery of all of these podcast things that come in. But that's one of the more popular ones. that So you spend more time, and kind of get back to the original thing, you spend more time working to prove that these things are legit.

00:42:09.99
Mark Smith
like so and and And it does become a big time suck.

00:42:11.00
Aaron
Hmm. Hmm.

00:42:13.89
Mark Smith
Now, with that said, there are a lot of more opportunities that do open up, like you know good opportunities that you can definitely take advantage of. um But yeah, you actually you have to work twice as hard, I would say, in doing all this.

00:42:27.65
Aaron
yeah

00:42:29.86
Mark Smith
And then you have to also start shedding some of the responsibility of social media. Be it, I'm gonna go respond to everybody. You might not be able to do that anymore once you start getting so many comments.

00:42:38.52
Aaron
Yeah.

00:42:41.79
Mark Smith
Otherwise, you'd have to hire somebody else to go do all of that for you. And I i think some people do that. I don't. I don't. I just kind of try to do it all myself.

00:42:49.20
Aaron
It's a one man show.

00:42:50.89
Mark Smith
Yeah.

00:42:51.35
Aaron
Hey, Seth, let's

00:42:51.64
Seth Macey
um Mark, make sure you click the link I just emailed you.

00:42:53.80
Aaron
Yes.

00:42:54.55
Mark Smith
ah

00:42:54.98
Aaron
yeah I muted Mark.

00:42:55.46
Mark Smith
Hold on.

00:42:57.78
Aaron
Let's just, let's not get into his Facebook right away.

00:43:00.25
Mark Smith
No!

00:43:00.66
Aaron
Cause it might be obvious. Let's wait like, let's wait two weeks or so.

00:43:03.66
Seth Macey
two weeks hit him we like up and

00:43:03.82
Aaron
Okay. All right. I'm unmuting him anyways, Mark, uh, back to the podcast.

00:43:05.61
Mark Smith
That was brilliant.

00:43:10.51
Seth Macey
and podcasters slime buson

00:43:11.79
Aaron
Yeah. Yeah. Slime balls.

00:43:13.95
Mark Smith
and Just fake one.

00:43:14.03
Aaron
No, we're, we're real.

00:43:15.61
Mark Smith
But you know, the other thing that's really weird to me too, that I never anticipated where there's a lot of fake accounts that are impersonating me. And because I have like a rich engagement, they it's easy prey for them.

00:43:27.68
Mark Smith
So they'll they'll make an account that says like Mark Smith fan page. And then they'll go to a post of mine that has like a million views and X amount of comments. And they'll start replying to every one of them going, Oh, hey, thanks.

00:43:38.21
Mark Smith
This is my fan page. If you want to talk to me personally, come here.

00:43:41.66
Seth Macey
Oh, wow.

00:43:41.72
Mark Smith
And what the I'll do, like it gets crazy. What what they do is,

00:43:44.24
Aaron
oh

00:43:45.38
Mark Smith
They wrangle them over there and then they will get them off of whatever app it is and try to get them on some other app like WhatsApp or Telegram or something like that.

00:43:46.88
Aaron
Wow.

00:43:54.27
Mark Smith
And then they'll, they usually prey on women. Then they will love bomb these women and say, I love you, you know, this is the romance I've been wanting my whole life.

00:44:02.91
Aaron
Oh my God.

00:44:03.06
Mark Smith
By the way, I'm stuck in England somewhere, can you send me a thousand dollars to get home?

00:44:06.69
Seth Macey
Wow. How many relationships are you in?

00:44:07.49
Aaron
Oh my. Yeah.

00:44:09.07
Mark Smith
Oh my gosh, dude, unfortunately these people fall for it.

00:44:11.15
Aaron
Holy.

00:44:13.03
Seth Macey
I know I should be laughing.

00:44:13.10
Mark Smith
and

00:44:14.15
Seth Macey
It's sad. it They do it because it works, right?

00:44:16.26
Aaron
Yeah.

00:44:16.36
Mark Smith
Well, and here's where they've gone a step further that I i found out about six months ago. They have trained in AI on my voice.

00:44:24.64
Seth Macey
Oh, here we go.

00:44:25.16
Mark Smith
So they called them with my voice.

00:44:26.73
Seth Macey
yeah

00:44:28.52
Mark Smith
And these people think it's me. Like, my kids would know. I've played it for my kids. They're like, that's not you, but it's close. It's like scary close. So these people that don't know me well, they fall for it every time.

00:44:39.70
Seth Macey
Does your

00:44:39.76
Mark Smith
And suddenly, I get a message that'll say, hey, are you all right? And did you get the $1,000? I sent you. I'm like, oh, no, no, no. That's not me.

00:44:47.29
Seth Macey
Yeah.

00:44:47.58
Mark Smith
This is something weird. like person that's doing this. So yes.

00:44:51.88
Seth Macey
Does your family have a safe word yet? I mean, Aaron and I have talked about this too. Uh, just cause we have like 200 and some odd episodes, people could sample our voice and no problem. I've done, I've sampled my own voice before. And thank it's, it's an important pain thing.

00:45:05.12
Seth Macey
People need to start thinking about, especially even if you're talking into reels, people can just swipe your voice, AI it, call your family and say, I've been taken hostage, send money to go.

00:45:09.21
Mark Smith
Yeah. Yeah.

00:45:15.59
Seth Macey
And so, and you got to have the safe word. Okay. What's the password?

00:45:18.97
Mark Smith
Yeah, yeah, well we do. We totally, my me and my kids have a safe word, so for sure.

00:45:23.33
Seth Macey
I think everybody should start thinking about that as we enter the age of AI, have a safe word that you can identify if it's, you know, a rant, AI ransom or not, or actually the person craziness.

00:45:24.70
Aaron
Yeah.

00:45:29.39
Aaron
yeah

00:45:33.90
Mark Smith
Yeah, yep.

00:45:36.60
Mark Smith
Yeah, it's weird.

00:45:37.47
Aaron
I wouldn't want to deal with any of that.

00:45:39.68
Seth Macey
but yeah No, that's a different league.

00:45:40.60
Aaron
I wouldn't want to deal with any of that. Yeah.

00:45:44.50
Seth Macey
What are some, uh, what are some of the most common questions you get asked? They can be techie or otherwise.

00:45:50.29
Mark Smith
The most common question is, where did you take this photo? or Hands down, that's the most asked thing ever.

00:45:53.37
Aaron
Oh my God.

00:45:56.59
Seth Macey
Oh man.

00:45:59.81
Seth Macey
By the end of this, people aren't going to want to be of your size or level of success.

00:45:59.89
Aaron
Do you have a, do you have a canned response?

00:46:05.97
Mark Smith
Yeah, no, it's all you.

00:46:07.95
Aaron
Yeah. Do you have a canned response for that? That you just copy and paste or do you just leave it?

00:46:13.28
Mark Smith
it It depends really like I kind of just try to feel it out and it depends on the location.

00:46:15.43
Aaron
Yeah.

00:46:18.12
Mark Smith
If the location I've been to and the and the people there know me and I have asked me not to share then I i will not.

00:46:24.13
Aaron
Right.

00:46:24.59
Mark Smith
um If it's like a place where I might go myself that I do here in Florida, I'll usually tell people so.

00:46:32.15
Seth Macey
Are there any common ones that you do like answering that aren't annoying?

00:46:36.13
Mark Smith
Questions? um

00:46:36.95
Seth Macey
Yeah, yeah. That have maybe just come up in DMs or in casual conversation.

00:46:44.70
Mark Smith
I think gear also, you know what camera did you use? that That's probably the second one.

00:46:50.47
Seth Macey
Do you think that's a valid question? Like, do you think people to put too much? I know you do a lot of gear review or just like, do you think?

00:46:55.74
Mark Smith
Yeah. not Well, not really, but.

00:46:57.68
Seth Macey
Well, not like review, but a lot of your YouTube titles are shot with the D, you know, Nike.

00:47:01.17
Mark Smith
Oh, yeah.

00:47:03.10
Seth Macey
Do you think. Do you think people put too much weight into gear? I guess would be the way to summarize the question.

00:47:09.97
Mark Smith
Yeah. Yeah. 100%.

00:47:13.88
Seth Macey
How come or how so?

00:47:14.87
Mark Smith
Yeah. Again, it's the what is that, that old saying, it's not the camera, it's the, the, yeah, the changes behind the camera that that's doing it.

00:47:23.47
Seth Macey
photographer yeah

00:47:24.34
Aaron
The shooter. It's not the arrow.

00:47:26.61
Mark Smith
So yeah, for sure.

00:47:27.86
Aaron
Yeah.

00:47:30.01
Mark Smith
But like, also with that said, each camera manufacturer and camera body and lens has a specific like sweet spot or purpose where they would work better, you know, for certain things.

00:47:43.73
Mark Smith
And then like the whole argument of, you know, what's better, Tony Nikon or Ken and they're all good. Like if you have

00:47:50.98
Seth Macey
yeah I've never understood that argument. like everything the The difference in quality has got to be so minute. like Point the hundreds of a percentage.

00:47:58.86
Mark Smith
yeah

00:48:01.87
Mark Smith
Yeah. Well yes and no. I mean there are certain things that some cameras can do better than others for sure. There's there's no question. um And like I think some of the stuff I do is some of the hardest on camera specifically birds like right on top of the water line and staying right on top of the water line. That is where every camera will struggle because The water has a lot of contrast and the ripples confuse the camera over the bird, but we're kind of moving away from that a little bit now with some of the AI technology in the cameras.

00:48:22.55
Aaron
Yeah.

00:48:29.24
Mark Smith
It has really good subject recognition. It can now kind of deviate the two and stay where it needs to be, whereas like just a year or two ago, that was still kind of problematic.

00:48:37.94
Seth Macey
Right. I guess for me, fair.

00:48:39.61
Mark Smith
And some cameras do it better than others.

00:48:43.43
Seth Macey
I guess for me, like I'm not a big tech guy. I'll i'll upgrade when, when something I'm trying to do, when I've hit my limit with whatever I'm using, mean like so sort of what you just mentioned, you're trying to do birds along the water on my camera won't do it.

00:48:52.22
Mark Smith
yeah

00:48:56.03
Seth Macey
Oh, there's one that exists that can do it. Okay. Maybe I'll look into that.

00:48:57.87
Mark Smith
Yeah.

00:48:58.23
Seth Macey
I guess I feel like I hear what you're saying, like obviously certain cameras can do certain things better than others. For sure. I just wonder if there's too much emphasis placed on I'll be a good photographer if I have the A9.

00:49:13.63
Seth Macey
I need that to be able to be a good photographer.

00:49:13.67
Mark Smith
Oh, yeah.

00:49:14.14
Aaron
No, yeah. Yeah.

00:49:16.95
Mark Smith
100%. Yeah. like

00:49:17.98
Aaron
It's the same with, it's the same with music where you have like a intermediate guitarist thinks that they spend 10,000 on this new guitar. I mean, it's going to sound great. But if I gave David Gilmour a Strat versus an SG versus a Gibson versus an Epiphone, he's going to play the crap out of it.

00:49:33.95
Mark Smith
Yeah.

00:49:34.05
Aaron
Like, like no matter, no matter what.

00:49:34.84
Seth Macey
And he's going to play it how it's meant to be played in that sense too, right?

00:49:38.12
Aaron
Yeah.

00:49:38.24
Mark Smith
Yeah.

00:49:38.32
Aaron
and I think, I think guitar is a good analogy. Like a Strat has a certain sound. an SG has a certain sound, a Les Paul has a certain sound, a Holobody has a certain sound, but you need to know how to play it and there might be little nuances, but you could play jazz on a Strat, you could play jazz on a Les Paul, you could play jazz on a Holobody. Like you can do all the things, they're just slight little preferences. Maybe it's a color scheme that you like on Nikon better, maybe it's the autofocus you love on Sony that really works for you and you can deal with

00:50:10.28
Aaron
you know, whatever the color may be. You know, it's sort of, it's all these trade-offs. But you just pick what you're you like and what sticks with you and and and make the best of it.

00:50:15.07
Seth Macey
Right.

00:50:20.99
Mark Smith
Yeah, 100%. And the guitar analogy is great, too. And I think guitars are a little different in the sense that they're almost like a living thing. like A lot of guitars, like the more you time you put into them and the more blood, sweat, and tears you put into the guitar, the better it starts to sound.

00:50:38.93
Mark Smith
at least that's been my experience with the guitar. Sometimes like a brand new guitar, it's kind of, it's like a brand new pair of shoes. It's kind of stiff, doesn't really feel right.

00:50:45.33
Aaron
Yeah.

00:50:46.64
Mark Smith
But one that's 10 years old, that's been like played the crap out of it, it might just sing more beautifully than any other one.

00:50:48.89
Aaron
Mm hmm.

00:50:54.70
Mark Smith
Cameras not so much because I think they're, you know, little micro computers, but maybe the glass element.

00:50:59.71
Aaron
Yeah, with with that with that though, settings on a camera. If you learn your menu inside out, like a Sony menu, whoo that's an encyclopedia. you know if you if you If you learn certain little things, of like it's kind of like a nuance of, um' I'm going to try flat wound strings and that gives me a slightly different set.

00:51:09.48
Mark Smith
Yeah, it is.

00:51:18.71
Aaron
I'm going to do this little setting or, oh, that setting does that. ah that Now that's my default. like I think there's little things where you learn the camera over years and stop switching gear all the time where you become like this is this is I know this inside out I can you you tell me to do a setting I know exactly where it is I'm switching it in a second um versus kind of relearning that over and over and over and over again sticking with equipment.

00:51:30.22
Mark Smith
yeah

00:51:45.57
Mark Smith
Yeah, I agree 100%. And I think too, when you do stick with equipment, you you see where it underperforms too. so And you you know try to work around whatever that might be. And then it's so like, I think one of the great things about photography and videography is I don't think it's something that you would really ever master. I think it's like, you can become proficient with it.

00:52:09.56
Mark Smith
but it's so dynamic and changing all of the time, um at least what I do, like with wildlife, like the the light is never really ever the same. The animal behavior is probably never really the same or you might have this element that got thrown in and all of these things are changing and evolving like instantaneously while you're out there. So you can you can kind of see where certain cameras or lenses might work better in certain environments with the light, the backlight,

00:52:37.43
Mark Smith
reflections that are happening, and all that stuff, so yeah.

00:52:41.47
Seth Macey
If you had to use one body and one lens to go out and film, let's say Osprey's, what'll it be?

00:52:46.89
Mark Smith
Ooh, that's pretty easy. Are we talking stills or video or both?

00:52:55.68
Seth Macey
Uh, let's say you're going out to shoot both.

00:52:58.66
Mark Smith
um I would use the Sony A12, which isn't out yet, but I've used it, so I know what it's capable of.

00:53:02.83
Seth Macey
Okay.

00:53:06.94
Mark Smith
And then for me with the Ospreys, I would use the Sony 600 F4. No question. That is like pure magic. 100%. For me.

00:53:16.83
Seth Macey
That was pretty quick. Pretty quick answer. What if it was just photo?

00:53:19.71
Mark Smith
If it was just photo, I would do the same.

00:53:25.23
Seth Macey
Okay.

00:53:26.07
Mark Smith
Yeah. For sure. Like the...

00:53:28.94
Seth Macey
What if you had to have a more budget camera?

00:53:31.53
Mark Smith
Oh, okay. um

00:53:33.11
Seth Macey
Let's make it relatable because I don't know how many people can.

00:53:35.71
Aaron
What if we're not rich?

00:53:35.89
Mark Smith
Yeah.

00:53:36.10
Seth Macey
one

00:53:37.49
Mark Smith
Yeah, get the A1 too. Ooh, more budget. Maybe the Z8.

00:53:43.57
Aaron
Ooh, Nikon.

00:53:43.70
Seth Macey
Okay.

00:53:44.90
Mark Smith
Yeah. Yeah. I think i think the Z8, there's a lot of bang for the buck in that camera.

00:53:46.10
Aaron
Yeah.

00:53:50.16
Mark Smith
It's not like super, super expensive, like I guess. um And then Nikon's got some really good glass too.

00:53:59.22
Aaron
Yeah.

00:54:00.52
Mark Smith
Maybe their 180 to 600 lens would be good.

00:54:05.42
Aaron
Yeah.

00:54:05.44
Mark Smith
Yeah. But I think that's like a medium. Like I don't think it would be entry level. I think that would be like a medium level entry spot.

00:54:13.39
Aaron
Yeah, like you're into you're into photography.

00:54:13.74
Seth Macey
Yeah.

00:54:15.70
Aaron
You at that point.

00:54:15.93
Mark Smith
Yeah, yeah, for sure.

00:54:17.27
Seth Macey
Sometimes medium entry though is a good place to to start in my opinion.

00:54:21.75
Aaron
I agree.

00:54:22.67
Seth Macey
I'm going to go the level up from where I'm at because I know I am serious about this and ill I won't have to buy something new right away, but I'm also not going to splurge on the most expensive thing.

00:54:29.93
Mark Smith
Sure.

00:54:33.93
Aaron
Yeah.

00:54:34.85
Mark Smith
Yeah.

00:54:36.10
Seth Macey
I feel like

00:54:36.39
Mark Smith
And a lot. and A lot of people do. They'll go out and buy like the A12 and like this this mindset that we were talking about a little bit and think that they're just going to go get these amazing photos and pictures and they're a little disappointed when it doesn't quite work that way.

00:54:50.54
Seth Macey
Like, damn it, Mark, you said, I guess you said it.

00:54:52.98
Mark Smith
Yeah,

00:54:57.10
Aaron
No.

00:54:57.12
Mark Smith
yeah yeah i had I had one guy come to me once and he said, I've seen what you do it's and um I've seen videos of you. It's not hard. There's no reason I can't do it. And he picked it up and he's like, I can't do this. and i was like I don't know what to tell you.

00:55:08.56
Aaron
takes practice.

00:55:08.87
Mark Smith
um've I've been out here every day for the past seven years doing this.

00:55:12.20
Seth Macey
Right. So it's reps. That's what I, yeah, it's repetitions, right?

00:55:14.30
Aaron
Yeah.

00:55:15.24
Mark Smith
For sure.

00:55:15.61
Aaron
Has your, has your passion in photography shifted to video or is video a vehicle to get people nowadays with social media to see your photography?

00:55:25.96
Seth Macey
Good question.

00:55:26.97
Mark Smith
I started for video.

00:55:27.21
Aaron
Thank you. It was very distinct also, Seth, did you notice that?

00:55:29.94
Seth Macey
It was succinct. Aaron, and he kept it under 10 seconds.

00:55:31.12
Aaron
Yeah.

00:55:33.11
Seth Macey
That's got to be a record. For for our loyal listeners, they'll know.

00:55:36.58
Aaron
Yeah. Usually my questions start with in third grade, I had an aptitude for clarinet by the fourth grade. And I get to a question 20 minutes later.

00:55:45.94
Mark Smith
so So when I bought my first DSLR, I bought a Nikon D5300, I think it was in 2016. Wasn't that long ago?

00:55:56.24
Aaron
My first camera too.

00:55:57.76
Mark Smith
Yeah. And I got it because it was the only camera at the time that would record in 1080p and 60 frames per second.

00:56:06.51
Seth Macey
Other times have changed.

00:56:06.84
Mark Smith
yeah Yes, there was no, Canon couldn't do that and I don't even know if Sony, if Sony was a thing, I wasn't not aware at the time. um So I got it solely to do video and then started taking more and more stills and it flipped for me that way and I found that I loved still photography.

00:56:27.49
Mark Smith
At the time I lived in Colorado um so the San Juan Mountains but it was new to me and so going out every day and seeing these mountains and all of these elk and new animals were fascinating and to be able to capture them um and take photos of them was great and then the waterfalls too was

00:56:39.10
Aaron
Mm hmm.

00:56:44.82
Mark Smith
like a big fan of all the waterfalls I could find and and learning photography that way. And I had a pretty interesting moment that I've shared with a lot of people. there was There's a place there outside of the town of Ure. I don't know if you've ever been in Western Colorado, beautiful place.

00:57:01.09
Mark Smith
um There's a place called the Yankee Boy Basin. It's really hard to get to Yankee Boy Basin. You have to take a 4x4 vehicle and it's it's like a white knuckle ride. Like you're literally hugging the side of a cliff.

00:57:12.38
Aaron
Hmm.

00:57:12.63
Mark Smith
And you drive up to this basin that's I think the base level is like 11,500 feet. So it's it's pretty high up there. And the basin is just full of in the summer full of all of these Beautiful flowers everywhere every kind of color.

00:57:26.03
Mark Smith
There's like little pikas. There's marmots. There's deer There's moose and there's hummingbirds everywhere and the backdrop is like this snow-capped peak and then there's waterfalls and I had this very surreal moment when I had gotten there and I parked and I walked maybe half a mile up which is for me being a Floridian was hard because of the lack of oxygen and And I sat down and just watched these hummingbirds.

00:57:51.31
Mark Smith
And I suddenly understood the relationship between aperture, shutter speed, ISO, and what all of that stuff meant. It was just like, just like a there it is. Here's this information. And now you understand it. And I joke about it and say, I don't know if it was the lack of oxygen to my brain that kind of made me think differently or being in this like amazingly overwhelming environment full of beauty or a combination of the two.

00:58:07.23
Aaron
yeah

00:58:13.89
Mark Smith
um But it was there was a very profound moment. And then from that point on, It was just kind of granularly nitpicking and trying to fine-tune it, so to speak.

00:58:24.40
Seth Macey
Right.

00:58:24.58
Mark Smith
that was I deviated from your question. um I started with video, went to stills. and then went back to video probably four years ago. So before like reels and vertical video was ever ever a thing, I was still on my A9, which is an older Sony camera. I was recording video of Osprey's in slow motion and i um I learned some extremely valuable stuff and I suggest everybody that wants to do wildlife photography also try a wildlife video and here's why. um You will learn,

00:58:59.79
Mark Smith
So much about your subject that you can't see in real time. Like for instance, if an osprey is doing something specific, it might be a 10th of a second signal that they're going to go down. And that happens so quick.

00:59:10.30
Mark Smith
You don't see it with your eyes, but when you record it like an eight times slow motion, you see it pretty glaringly and then you can relate that back to real time.

00:59:15.21
Aaron
Interesting.

00:59:17.94
Mark Smith
And then you start to understand their behaviors. You're like, Oh, I can predict this because of this little wink that he just did, you know, and now he's going to go do this.

00:59:24.48
Seth Macey
I ate.

00:59:25.45
Mark Smith
And the other thing that you learn that's really important is where you as the photographer or videographer are making all of the mistakes. Because if you're recording at eight times slow motion and you over pan for one second, it's gonna be an eight second error when you go back to view it. So it like puts a magnifying glass on your technique where your technique is sloppy. And if you can look at that,

00:59:50.21
Mark Smith
the right way, you can then go back and go, Oh, okay, I need to tighten up this area. So for me, like when, when I was doing all this, I was doing it really just as a learning experience. I was learning so much about the animals, their are behavior, how they were doing things because it was slowing down all of these moments that I couldn't process in real time. And then the underlying thing was learning all of these places. I was making mistakes.

01:00:12.26
Mark Smith
And then when the Sony a7S III came out, it was the first Sony camera that could do 4K 120. And I was so excited to have it and bought it immediately. I shot nothing but video on that camera for four months during what I would call our Osprey season. and Everybody else is out there taking stills and I'm doing video after. I have like 20 terabytes of amazing Osprey footage.

01:00:32.04
Mark Smith
Didn't really know what to do with it at the time, but you know, I was just sitting on it. But in that process, I learned all of these things. And then when I went back and said, okay, today I'm going to do stills, the one shot that you want, the people wanted the ospreys, you know, with the talons out right at the water every single time.

01:00:47.07
Mark Smith
Got it. Every single time. Because I had learned so much about them and how to read their behavior. And then so much about my sloppy technique and then tightened it up that it actually made my photography a hundred percent better.

01:00:59.45
Aaron
That's interesting.

01:00:59.65
Mark Smith
If all of that makes sense.

01:01:00.19
Seth Macey
That is interesting. I think most people go the opposite direction, right? Photography to video. I've always wondered how people get that talons out right above the water and it's gotta to be animal just knowing the cues.

01:01:11.63
Mark Smith
Yeah, it is for sure.

01:01:14.27
Seth Macey
This is about to happen.

01:01:15.58
Aaron
Yeah. I have to do a PSA. The photographer mindset does not recommend depleting your oxygen to improve your photography game.

01:01:25.71
Mark Smith
Good PSA.

01:01:26.56
Aaron
Thank you.

01:01:27.34
Seth Macey
We gotta, we gotta to cover all our legal basis.

01:01:27.70
Aaron
Thank you. yes yes yeah

01:01:33.35
Seth Macey
That's so funny. So a lot of your content is obviously ospreys, eagles, birds, things of that nature.

01:01:38.39
Mark Smith
Yep.

01:01:38.61
Seth Macey
Do you ever feel boxed in? You talked about San Juan Island, filming photographing foxes, elk.

01:01:41.54
Mark Smith
Yeah.

01:01:44.43
Seth Macey
I know a lot of people struggle with this. Like, ah, I've gotten a lot of popularity doing this and I, but I'm so much more, more and I want to share that, but it doesn't, it does.

01:01:49.88
Mark Smith
Yes.

01:01:52.25
Seth Macey
People don't find it as interesting because I'm the osprey guy.

01:01:53.18
Aaron
Yes,

01:01:55.79
Mark Smith
That's right.

01:01:56.24
Aaron
yes.

01:01:56.56
Mark Smith
and And people will flat out tell you this.

01:01:57.86
Aaron
Check.

01:01:58.78
Seth Macey
And so what's the, what's the antidote? I don't care.

01:02:01.52
Mark Smith
um Mix it up. Do what you want to do because it's all about you anyways.

01:02:04.14
Seth Macey
Right.

01:02:05.72
Mark Smith
so like not Not in the ego way.

01:02:06.27
Seth Macey
Yeah.

01:02:08.50
Mark Smith
I mean, it's about

01:02:08.71
Seth Macey
I hear you.

01:02:09.68
Aaron
Yeah.

01:02:09.82
Mark Smith
doing what you want to do, and if people like it.

01:02:11.17
Seth Macey
This is my page, right?

01:02:12.53
Mark Smith
Yeah, if people like it, cool. um And I will. And it's interesting that you said that, because I had this recently. I posted some landscape shots that I had done. And somebody said, yeah these are great, but there's like 50 million people that post stuff just like this.

01:02:26.78
Mark Smith
But there's nobody that does the birds like you do. So just keep doing the birds. And I was like, but I like doing this too.

01:02:33.33
Aaron
Yeah.

01:02:33.70
Mark Smith
So I'm going to continue to do both.

01:02:35.71
Seth Macey
Yeah, it's interesting. Maybe there's nobody. Yeah. Cause then you can make the argument. Okay. Well, there's nobody like me who does the birds like this and landscapes like together.

01:02:43.95
Mark Smith
Yeah, exactly.

01:02:44.40
Seth Macey
This is what keeps me me.

01:02:46.02
Mark Smith
Yeah, yeah.

01:02:47.92
Seth Macey
Right. Which is, I think a better way to work. Think about it. I guess it it comes down to maybe people taking themselves too seriously. Like I have to do it becomes, I feel like it gets to a point where the audience can own you.

01:02:58.51
Mark Smith
Oh yeah, that makes sense for sure.

01:03:01.05
Seth Macey
Right. You become a slave to the audience and then I feel like you can lose the passion for what as an artist, as a creator.

01:03:08.08
Mark Smith
Yeah, you can't let that happen.

01:03:10.23
Seth Macey
Right. And I feel like it happens all the time.

01:03:10.43
Aaron
think

01:03:12.38
Mark Smith
Yeah.

01:03:12.88
Aaron
Yeah, again, a tie to music. It reminds me of an artist that comes up with an album and it's a hit album and then they're doomed. Their second album's similar to the first, then it's it's the same as the first.

01:03:24.21
Aaron
You know, they didn't grow at all. If it's different, if it's a departure, they changed. they're They're doing different stuff. We go back to the first album. Like it's, as an artist, I feel like it's tough once you get a following to, you're going to displease a lot of people.

01:03:32.16
Mark Smith
Yeah.

01:03:39.65
Mark Smith
Yeah.

01:03:39.74
Seth Macey
What's the Rick Rubin, right? The audience comes last and some people agree with that.

01:03:41.54
Aaron
Yeah, you gotta do what you want.

01:03:42.66
Seth Macey
Some people disagree with that.

01:03:45.26
Mark Smith
I agree with him on that one. Like, yeah, he's, he's an interesting dude and his, uh, his book, I haven't finished reading it, but it, it's just like nugget after nugget of good wisdom, really the creative,

01:03:47.07
Seth Macey
Yeah.

01:03:56.27
Seth Macey
What's the title of the book?

01:03:59.32
Mark Smith
something and I don't remember the creative process or something like that.

01:04:02.74
Seth Macey
Right off to put that on my reading list.

01:04:04.05
Mark Smith
I'm probably saying that completely wrong. It's fantastic.

01:04:07.43
Aaron
Yeah, it's it's a good one.

01:04:07.83
Mark Smith
If if you if you like him, he he's he goes out there with some deep, deep stuff on on creativity and how it happens and why it happens and when it happens.

01:04:19.19
Seth Macey
How do you build your reading list? You said do you like to read books. i'm I know how I build mine. I'm curious to know how you build yours. Do you go looking for stuff?

01:04:26.10
Mark Smith
I do. i'm I'm bad. I go to Barnes and Noble because I love the experience. And then I buy everything on my Kindle.

01:04:36.52
Seth Macey
That's funny.

01:04:37.18
Mark Smith
Totally.

01:04:37.39
Seth Macey
I, uh, I, uh, all I'm kind of like, uh, call it like the book tree or the book link. I'll pick up a book and you know how often authors reference other pieces of books.

01:04:49.93
Mark Smith
Yeah.

01:04:50.43
Seth Macey
When they do that, I'll write down that book and then I'll buy that book or I'll read that book eventually.

01:04:52.62
Mark Smith
Yeah.

01:04:55.55
Seth Macey
And then there'll be mentions of other things. And it's just like this nice fluid dispersal of information and knowledge.

01:05:02.82
Mark Smith
I do the same thing. um Yeah, I just finished two books by the same author.

01:05:04.43
Seth Macey
Yeah.

01:05:07.98
Mark Smith
I don't remember his name, um which is probably bad, but the first book was called, let me think, hold on, I'm gonna get this wrong. I think it was called Blitzed, Drugs in the Third Reich, something ah along those lines.

01:05:20.74
Seth Macey
Oh.

01:05:21.80
Mark Smith
And then his followup to that was Tripped and had to do with hallucinogenics in America. But maybe, I don't know.

01:05:28.17
Seth Macey
Norman Oler.

01:05:31.43
Seth Macey
Blitz drugs in Nazi Germany.

01:05:33.08
Mark Smith
That, yes, fantastic read. I highly recommend it. Learn a lot that I had no idea about.

01:05:40.65
Seth Macey
Yeah.

01:05:41.81
Mark Smith
Yeah, yeah.

01:05:42.28
Aaron
Well,

01:05:42.28
Seth Macey
Entire German army in World War II on methamphetamine for blitzkrieg.

01:05:46.42
Mark Smith
Pretty much, that's why they were unstoppable.

01:05:47.21
Seth Macey
Yeah, that's wild.

01:05:48.48
Mark Smith
Yeah, they were on meth. Yeah, 100%.

01:05:52.31
Seth Macey
That's something I've gotten a lot more interested in is recently is like learning about history. I always thought it was lame, but it's so fascinating that the how times can rhyme.

01:06:00.45
Mark Smith
It is, oh, 100%, yeah. Yeah. And then the, the follow-up to that, uh, tripped is a ah lot about like the birth of LSD and why it was and how it became and what it, all of these really interesting things, very, very interesting things.

01:06:16.91
Mark Smith
And he cites everything. Like everything has like a citation that can go back to where he got the actual information from. So ah half of the book is the citations.

01:06:23.56
Seth Macey
That's cool.

01:06:25.90
Mark Smith
So yeah.

01:06:26.36
Seth Macey
That's really cool. See how I would work is I would put these books on my reading list and then when I go to read them, if there's any reference to more literature, I would buy those.

01:06:34.40
Mark Smith
Yeah, that's...

01:06:34.81
Seth Macey
I feel like you get this organic culmination of what you're interested in.

01:06:40.03
Mark Smith
I do that too, but I love the Barnes and Noble experience.

01:06:43.17
Seth Macey
Yeah.

01:06:43.88
Mark Smith
I don't know why, but I love to go and just thumb through books. I might not even buy anything, but sometimes that's where I start this this path that you're talking about.

01:06:52.33
Aaron
Yeah.

01:06:52.46
Mark Smith
I might get more.

01:06:52.62
Seth Macey
Again, seems like a form of meditation. I know Aaron will say it.

01:06:57.37
Mark Smith
Yeah, I would say so.

01:06:57.60
Seth Macey
yeah

01:07:01.73
Mark Smith
Definitely.

01:07:04.90
Seth Macey
I have another question for you.

01:07:08.42
Mark Smith
And then we have it.

01:07:08.76
Seth Macey
they're Not as a podcast, podcast host. How do you, how can people best put themselves in a position to capture great images or video? and Whether that's like physically or opportunity wise,

01:07:18.05
Mark Smith
ah

01:07:24.13
Mark Smith
So you know I can only comment on like wildlife, right mostly.

01:07:27.46
Seth Macey
Sure.

01:07:28.67
Mark Smith
That's where I spend most of my time. um and I fully believe that story comes before everything, including light. I think sometimes people get stuck in a light.

01:07:43.50
Mark Smith
quest where they have to have a specific light and they miss the story. And I think story is very, very important because that's what 90% of the people connect to. mean the The photographers know light, most people don't, and they won't judge something based on light, they'll judge it based on story. um So for me, story is is first. And for wildlife, there's a ah very simple i I don't know, a very simple idea somebody told me many, many years ago, an older wildlife photographer, for every animal, including humans,

01:08:17.17
Mark Smith
If you can find three things, you'll find that target animal. And those three things are food, whatever that animal eats, water, and a place where they feel safe or comfortable. If you can find those three things, how they relate to your target subject, you will put yourself at the best odds of capturing them doing what they do in life. And I think that's what you're you're trying to capture as a wildlife photographer these epic moments of of life, like you know good or bad, um and then share them with people. And I think it's very, very important to have an emotional connection to your subject and try to make sure that emotional connection is always there for the viewer as well, for them to become emotionally connected with whatever it is. Because I think as human beings, we're highly emotional beings.

01:09:06.28
Mark Smith
And I think that's like one of the ah keys to doing any good story is to be emotionally invested. If that makes sense.

01:09:14.05
Seth Macey
I love that. I love that it's simplifying a very complex process with those three criteria.

01:09:14.68
Aaron
That's a good answer.

01:09:22.72
Mark Smith
Yeah. And and you can i mean you can nitpick that. You can go really far.

01:09:25.01
Seth Macey
For sure.

01:09:26.39
Mark Smith
But I mean, that's the simplest way.

01:09:27.83
Seth Macey
That's the fundamentals, they would say.

01:09:28.02
Mark Smith
you know like Yeah, right.

01:09:31.03
Seth Macey
Absolutely.

01:09:32.10
Mark Smith
So like you can go further. like If you're looking for ospreys, so osprey eat fish, what kind of fish do they eat?

01:09:37.42
Seth Macey
Right.

01:09:37.50
Mark Smith
um When are those fish the most abundant? Are the fish migrating? you know Are they by the birds following the migrating fish? Are the fish spawning? there's And there's different aspects to all of that.

01:09:48.25
Mark Smith
And then you can go, well, what does the fish eat that they're after? And you can just continue to go. But the more knowledge you have about your subject, whatever it is, the better off you will be at taking a photo. And I think that knowledge comes before even photography. Like you need to be able to put yourself in those moments and then practice the craft of photography as you put yourself into those moments.

01:10:09.73
Seth Macey
Well, speaking of books and resources outside of just getting out, getting outdoors and experiencing and learning, do you have any resources that you've liked to, um, you know, read up on for, uh, wildlife behavior?

01:10:22.30
Seth Macey
I know I have the North and Peterson's guide, the North American mammals. That's a great one. Are there any fur birds that you've liked or is this just knowledge comes from your observation?

01:10:30.34
Mark Smith
No, I just I think outside in the field is the best because you'll learn a lot of things that are not in books a lot.

01:10:34.98
Seth Macey
Right.

01:10:38.32
Seth Macey
It's like language, right? You can spend all day doing Duolingo and then you get to the country and you freeze versus spending a week there, you'll pick some things up a lot quicker.

01:10:46.60
Mark Smith
Yeah, I have ah an older friend of mine who's done this for a long time.

01:10:46.60
Aaron
Yeah.

01:10:50.04
Mark Smith
And he always has some interesting comments. And one of the ones that he has for this very thing is all of these animals read different books than we do.

01:10:58.62
Seth Macey
Nice.

01:10:59.85
Aaron
Yeah.

01:11:00.33
Mark Smith
100% true.

01:11:01.51
Aaron
Yeah.

01:11:02.13
Mark Smith
So you need to be out there just kind of experiencing it. I think that's the best way.

01:11:08.34
Seth Macey
Right.

01:11:08.98
Aaron
With that, I think it sounds like you have an environment ah where Osprey are obviously in Florida. How hard is it to not get stuck on a certain pier or a certain rock ah versus trying different angles, trying different areas? Is there there more value out of learning a very small environment? Like you said that and as fish that are plenty, you know they're there and then learning that environment really well versus constantly traveling and searching for It's more of like the chase versus the the knowledge.

01:11:43.08
Mark Smith
I think the knowledge is best like in a smaller area. like Even where I go daily, um it's pretty pretty large. It's right on the coast. you know It's an inlet, so the Atlantic is on one side, the water comes in, and you have the inner coastal on the other. There's a tide pool where things happen, and there are about four or five hotspots for these birds.

01:12:04.38
Mark Smith
and If you go chasing them, even in this tiny area, you will do just that. You will chase them from spot A to spot B to spot C to spot D. The best thing to do is just sit put and wait and see what they do and let them lead you or let them come to you unless it looks like they're in an activity, and an area where there's like a lot of fish and you're on the wrong place. But you need to give that some time. like Like during these times, sometimes it's not unusual for there to be 40 or 50 of these birds in one little area. And if they're all going in one spot, getting fished in, obviously that's where you want to go. But if one or two go and get a fish and then the rest are you kind of just hovering around, it's best to just kind of wait it out and see where the majority of them are going to go.

01:12:49.66
Mark Smith
like dogs yeah are Hey, come here.

01:12:51.80
Aaron
Oh, hello.

01:12:57.87
Mark Smith
Come here.

01:12:58.65
Aaron
Here, pooch.

01:13:00.35
Mark Smith
Yeah.

01:13:00.40
Seth Macey
Oh, I think that's the best dog bark we've ever had on the show.

01:13:02.92
Aaron
Yeah.

01:13:04.37
Mark Smith
ah

01:13:04.90
Aaron
That was.

01:13:05.05
Seth Macey
It sounded like a big Rottweiler.

01:13:05.75
Mark Smith
um

01:13:07.17
Seth Macey
He's going to pick it up and it's going to be like a Chihuahua.

01:13:07.74
Aaron
why Yeah.

01:13:09.65
Mark Smith
There is a chihuahua, but there is a... Here, show them up here. Come on.

01:13:12.81
Seth Macey
I thought I heard a high pitch one.

01:13:14.32
Aaron
Oh, cute.

01:13:15.08
Mark Smith
This is the... That's the one that sounds ferocious.

01:13:19.22
Seth Macey
Oh.

01:13:19.54
Mark Smith
She's hes a border collie lab.

01:13:21.60
Aaron
Yeah. Lab mix.

01:13:22.99
Mark Smith
Yeah.

01:13:24.10
Aaron
Good bark.

01:13:24.10
Seth Macey
Anyone who was just driving, I hope you're not in a ditch.

01:13:27.35
Aaron
Yeah.

01:13:29.70
Aaron
Anyone.

01:13:29.75
Seth Macey
So.

01:13:29.85
Mark Smith
Right.

01:13:31.14
Aaron
Ha.

01:13:31.17
Mark Smith
Let me get the little one. Come here.

01:13:32.84
Seth Macey
Get the little one and subscribe on YouTube so you can see the little Chihuahua.

01:13:37.33
Mark Smith
he's old and

01:13:38.59
Aaron
Oh, hey, buddy.

01:13:38.82
Seth Macey
Oh, cute way to protect the house.

01:13:42.90
Aaron
Oh, man. Yeah.

01:13:45.25
Mark Smith
Yeah, this is interesting. This was, this is Roscoe. He's my late wife's dog. And he was connected to her side, like never left her side had massive separation anxiety.

01:13:55.20
Seth Macey
Oh.

01:13:55.98
Mark Smith
And when she died, he had like a deep dive of depression and didn't eat for like two weeks. And we didn't think he was going to make it even got to a point where the that was like, hey, you know, we might have to start giving him some kind of IV fluids and stuff.

01:14:08.22
Mark Smith
And then he kind of just after about two weeks came out of it and now he's glued to me. he said He's moved all of that energy to me.

01:14:12.64
Aaron
Oh.

01:14:13.01
Seth Macey
Oh, what a cute boy.

01:14:14.97
Mark Smith
So it was interesting. That was that was not something that I anticipated.

01:14:19.69
Seth Macey
Handsome fella.

01:14:19.88
Aaron
he kind of He kind of looks like an osprey.

01:14:22.04
Mark Smith
i

01:14:22.12
Aaron
so Same color.

01:14:22.83
Seth Macey
Same colors.

01:14:22.91
Mark Smith
same

01:14:23.89
Aaron
Yeah.

01:14:23.91
Mark Smith
yeah yeah

01:14:24.94
Aaron
He does.

01:14:25.99
Mark Smith
He's an interesting little dog.

01:14:27.03
Seth Macey
Aaron, hit Mark with our finale question that you like.

01:14:27.44
Aaron
Yeah.

01:14:32.08
Aaron
The question I like towards the end, I think if we could go back in time ah and look at our younger photography self, photographer self or videographer self and see where we are today. Is there any advice you would give yourself or pinnacle moment that changed everything for you that you can reflect on and maybe share with some of our listeners?

01:14:58.41
Mark Smith
I think iss that's a pretty deep, almost therapy related question.

01:15:03.25
Aaron
Yeah, well, that's what we like to do here.

01:15:05.76
Mark Smith
I think I know me personally, what I would do is I would go back and tell my younger self, everything's going to be okay.

01:15:14.75
Aaron
Yep.

01:15:16.19
Seth Macey
Simple as that. Mark Smith, thanks for joining us today, man.

01:15:17.59
Mark Smith
Yep.

01:15:19.79
Mark Smith
Thanks for having me. My pleasure.

01:15:20.80
Seth Macey
Really appreciate it.

01:15:20.93
Aaron
Thank you, Mark.

01:15:21.64
Seth Macey
That was awesome.

01:15:22.90
Mark Smith
Yeah.

01:15:22.95
Seth Macey
Till him next time.

01:15:24.28
Mark Smith
yeah