Becoming "Essentialist" Photographers in 2025

In this episode, we build upon last week's discussion about concepts we'll have at the forefront of our brains as we move through life and photography in 2025, mainly focusing on how to live and create with more intention. We explore the power of essentialism, that is doing fewer things but doing them deeply and more intensely, and the challenges of showing up as your true self both online and in daily life. We dig into the irony of seeking authenticity in a world tied to social media and share strategies for those who don't seek external validation yet still feel called to share their work. We also talk about cutting out the "noise" in our lives with precision, accuracy, and without pause.

Expect to learn:

-How to ruthlessly and unapologetically cut out "noise" everywhere in your life
-why it's so difficult for everyone to be their true self and how to change this
-how to be more of an essentialist, focusing on less but more important things
-why we convince ourselves we're being "productive" when we're really just "busy"
-why if you're not saying "hell ya!" to doing something, it may be better to say "no".

Sponsor:

Thanks to WhiteWall for being our lead sponsor this episode! They're the top choice for photographers who want high-quality prints, with a variety of material options, and who want their work delivered fast in 9 days or less!

You can use the code TPM2025 at checkout for 15% off!
https://www.whitewall.com/


Our Links:

Book a one time virtual 30 minute 1-on-1 session with Aaron or Seth entirely for FREE by using the code "FREETRIAL" at checkout: https://thephotographermindset.com/products/60-minute-virtual-1-on-1-session

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Thanks for listening!
Go get shooting, go get editing, and stay focused.

@sethmacey
@mantis_photography
@thephotographermindset

Transcript

00:00:05.78
Seth Macey
I just finished the hot ones challenge.

00:00:08.71
Aaron
Are the wings the sauce?

00:00:11.09
Seth Macey
Yeah, I used cauliflower bites, finished it no less than 30 minutes ago, an hour ago. And it feels like someone has shrunk down to miniature size and brought along with them a flame thrower.

00:00:22.29
Aaron
ah

00:00:25.91
Seth Macey
And it's just coating my stomach walls as I am speaking into the microphone right now.

00:00:32.98
Aaron
You know, the best part of that challenge you to do it twice.

00:00:35.49
Seth Macey
You get to do it the next day in one end and out the other.

00:00:39.15
Aaron
ah See which one's worse right in.

00:00:42.94
Seth Macey
Which one's worse? Right in, uh, the mouth.

00:00:46.04
Aaron
no

00:00:47.28
Seth Macey
But, uh, I've done it twice so far, so I need to take a breather. It's funny. You get socialized to do with friends, family, and, um,

00:00:54.98
Aaron
Wow. How many um sauces is it 10?

00:00:57.22
Seth Macey
10. I made it through all 10 both times and did the last dab too.

00:01:00.54
Aaron
Wow.

00:01:02.21
Seth Macey
People will know what I'm talking about. Hopefully.

00:01:04.39
Aaron
Yeah.

00:01:05.42
Seth Macey
But so if you.

00:01:05.53
Aaron
The last dab, which was the, which was the most painful.

00:01:09.63
Seth Macey
Number eight is always the worst in my opinion.

00:01:10.05
Aaron
Stage.

00:01:11.37
Seth Macey
The bomb, they put it in every kit and your mouth is numb. So nine is just whatever. And then 10 is horrendous as well.

00:01:23.33
Seth Macey
So why, uh, I don't know.

00:01:24.64
Aaron
Why?

00:01:27.27
Seth Macey
It's fun. You made it through. That's a good question. Why would you do something like that? I don't know. Makes you feel alive. Why do people go on road roller coasters? Why do people like scary movies? I don't get that. Like, I don't want the pants to be scared off me watching movies.

00:01:41.30
Aaron
Speaking of scary movie that's more real than scary because it's a real story is the Society of Snow.

00:01:46.16
Seth Macey
Okay.

00:01:48.84
Aaron
I just saw that it's on Netflix. It's about the Uruguayan rugby team that they're playing crashed in the Andes in the 70s.

00:01:59.30
Seth Macey
They to like eat each other by the end.

00:02:00.81
Aaron
Yeah, but it was um I mean, the cinematography was amazing. Like the, uh, he just really felt like you were in that movie.

00:02:11.67
Aaron
I really felt like I was in that.

00:02:11.65
Seth Macey
Do you think you could photograph, like if you were in theory invisible and in that scene, that scenario, do you think you could photograph and document it as a journalist, photojournalist?

00:02:24.17
Aaron
That was one of the parts of the movie. A guy was, he kept taking pictures and they were like, dude, like we're told, like we are miserable basically. We've been here. why Why are you taking pictures of everything?

00:02:36.29
Aaron
I think it was like, uh, like I want to share with my whomever or family. He was like asking people to smile and like still pose for photos.

00:02:46.78
Aaron
Uh, so that, that was, that was part of it.

00:02:47.53
Seth Macey
Wow.

00:02:50.53
Aaron
Um,

00:02:50.62
Seth Macey
People in the background like eating their deceased friend. It's insane.

00:02:55.11
Aaron
yeah i don't i mean i don't want to ruin it for anyone i guess it's like it's historical so it could be already ruined but anyway but yeah it's just well yeah uh it's just an and it's an incredible story of endurance and then like societal norms and then what rules become what morals become okay like it was very

00:03:01.87
Seth Macey
Yeah, there's no spoiler alerts when it happened in the seventies.

00:03:16.93
Seth Macey
I think about that a lot, like right and wrong. Who's to say you think about this?

00:03:22.61
Aaron
Yeah, and then and then you develop new rules based on the scenarios of what's like what's okay. So like eating your friends that died, naturally, that's okay.

00:03:33.80
Aaron
Killing them to eat, that wasn't okay.

00:03:36.27
Seth Macey
Yeah.

00:03:37.07
Aaron
Knowing who you're eating wasn't okay. So they they would shift off jobs of like, We're getting gruesome here. Welcome to 2025. But like the butchers would go hide and then mix up the meat.

00:03:50.11
Aaron
So you had no clue what you were, or who you were eating.

00:03:50.72
Seth Macey
oh

00:03:54.62
Seth Macey
Oh, I shall watch this.

00:03:55.11
Aaron
And it, it mess with people and they do a good job of like, showing this movie. um And then, yeah, they I mean, they had a radio that had incoming service, so they were able to hear, like the search party's over, it's done.

00:04:15.16
Aaron
We're we're bringing the planes back. We've spent 10 days looking. ah We assume they're all dead. So like you hear that news, and then you're still out there. And it's just like, it was tough.

00:04:26.27
Seth Macey
How do you continue when there's no hope? Have you ever been in a scenario like that? Or close to it?

00:04:33.55
Aaron
can't no

00:04:34.35
Seth Macey
Well, not to that degree.

00:04:36.37
Aaron
No, not to that degree. I i can't say I've been in horrible turbulence, which is not the same thing, but in the moment, God, like horrible turbulence, like, you know, dropping hundreds of feet in.

00:04:49.57
Seth Macey
We all know that, you know, when people don't know, Aaron doesn't like flying.

00:04:52.95
Aaron
I don't mind anymore. I kind of got over that, but as in my.

00:04:56.28
Seth Macey
The Alaska floatplane just was maximum exposure therapy from our retreat.

00:05:01.10
Aaron
It was.

00:05:01.38
Seth Macey
like I remember taking off and looking at you and I was like, it's just a single tear down the cheek.

00:05:04.99
Aaron
Do you see a single tear?

00:05:09.74
Seth Macey
It was poetic as we took off to go photograph bears.

00:05:11.41
Aaron
Like Well, I did have a moment there that like, that you have to admit that whole scenario felt forced.

00:05:14.19
Seth Macey
And I was like,

00:05:20.42
Aaron
Like it felt like. We didn't really look into this much. Like this is all happening very fast because our boat got canceled. So we needed to take a plane and it was all very last minute.

00:05:31.96
Aaron
Like, are we going to take off? Cause the weather's kind of bad. First of all, in this plane with this pilot that had braces, like Nothing against people with braces, but just like that's the scene that you're like stepping into this sardine can with a lot of other people like rain is coming through the windows and we're taking off on a water runway and flying into a storm to land with 30 bears also, so

00:05:41.55
Seth Macey
this young fellow

00:06:05.22
Seth Macey
Yeah, well what was worse was when we were leaving the weather the fog was rolling in and then all the planes are leaving and and we're still in the boat waiting for our guy to come and the, uh, our guide and the fishing boat.

00:06:16.25
Aaron
waiting and a waiting.

00:06:17.95
Seth Macey
Yeah. This is about the time everybody starts taking off weather starts getting bad or like, dude, your bedside manner is probably the worst.

00:06:25.93
Aaron
Yeah, he's like, i we don't have any way to call.

00:06:26.25
Seth Macey
i

00:06:28.44
Aaron
ah we There's no contact. We've slept out here before we could do it again. Like, why guy?

00:06:36.97
Seth Macey
Well, if we haven't totally scared you off,

00:06:43.12
Seth Macey
Where we're alive, so.

00:06:45.48
Aaron
Yeah.

00:06:46.37
Seth Macey
We're. We're going back.

00:06:50.11
Aaron
We're going back

00:06:50.36
Seth Macey
ah Official announcement, we're going back to Alaska 2025 in July. It will be our fourth TPM annual photography retreat. I'm sure there's a lot of people listening who are like, when were they going to announce this? Today is the day. And the official launch where you can book it, book a deposit, it will be on our website on January 13th. Turn notifications on on socials too, because we'll put it on there on our Instagram.

00:07:21.92
Seth Macey
You can check out the itinerary and I'm hoping it books up fast because last year was super fun. Uh, we put a lot of care into it. Despite Aaron's telling of the plane story, it was, he's being, it's a lot of satire.

00:07:32.19
Aaron
ah Still great.

00:07:36.44
Seth Macey
It was, it was planned despite our short timeframe from having our boat canceled, but it all worked out. Everyone had a really good time, insane footage, insane video. So we're going to go back and, uh, be on the lookout for that.

00:07:50.31
Aaron
Yeah, and I think when Seth and I were talking about where we're going to go next year, we've gone to a different place every year. I think it was pretty clear.

00:07:55.48
Seth Macey
There seems to see.

00:07:56.61
Aaron
We were like, why would you? Why would you ever go?

00:07:59.22
Seth Macey
Yeah.

00:08:01.05
Aaron
I mean, there's lots of places to go. Don't get me wrong. But you know we just felt like we have to hit that again. There was so much to see and do.

00:08:07.10
Seth Macey
Yeah.

00:08:09.47
Aaron
And landscape wise, wonderful. Wildlife photography, wonderful. Daylight, wonderful.

00:08:16.26
Seth Macey
We saw orcas.

00:08:16.52
Aaron
I mean, there's orcas, bear.

00:08:19.18
Seth Macey
Eagles.

00:08:20.32
Aaron
bald eagles, sea otters, moose, baby moose.

00:08:22.80
Seth Macey
Seals, harbor seals.

00:08:26.80
Aaron
A lot. Just a lot.

00:08:27.56
Seth Macey
Wild flowers. Then the sun was down for like, what, two hours, three hours a day.

00:08:32.25
Aaron
Yeah, so every day is like two days. You just get a lot. You get a lot for your money. I gotta say.

00:08:37.49
Seth Macey
You haven't been sold. There's all the adjectives and descriptions. Check it out on the 13th on our website. It'd be fun.

00:08:45.95
Aaron
Yeah, reach out if you have any questions or interests or want to know more. Uh, love to have a conversation with you, but yeah, all the info will be out in the 13th.

00:08:55.04
Seth Macey
Yeah.

00:08:55.63
Aaron
Some teasers in between.

00:08:57.26
Seth Macey
Cool. I like it. This is our first time really chatting since the holidays finished. Today is January 2nd. We're recording this and, uh, we've been out of touch in a nice way.

00:09:09.30
Seth Macey
We've given each other the space we needed in this relationship and we, we weren't insecure about where we stood with one another.

00:09:13.38
Aaron
Yeah.

00:09:18.18
Aaron
Uh, speak for yourself. I was crying every night.

00:09:20.82
Seth Macey
It won't get back to me.

00:09:22.71
Aaron
He won't write me. Uh, no, yeah, it's holidays and we need, we need breaks sometimes.

00:09:24.97
Seth Macey
So

00:09:28.68
Aaron
and You need to breathe. That's kind of a built-in one.

00:09:30.29
Seth Macey
Yeah.

00:09:31.36
Aaron
Like let's just go do her thing for a couple.

00:09:33.42
Seth Macey
Holidays frustrate me though a little bit because i I can unwind, but also I still want to get stuff done. But when you rely on responses of other people, you know, they're off rightfully so.

00:09:41.96
Aaron
Yeah.

00:09:42.31
Seth Macey
But you're like, Oh, you must get forced to, you get forced to wait.

00:09:46.07
Aaron
Wait.

00:09:48.11
Seth Macey
Yeah.

00:09:48.90
Aaron
I had a, I had an invoice that was due or, um, like giving out. And I was like, this is just going to be frustrating if I give this out a couple of days before this break. And then, so I just held it myself, let everyone come back and be like, all right, now we're, now we're ready to rock.

00:10:06.65
Aaron
You know.

00:10:06.69
Seth Macey
Yeah. Well, since we haven't really texted or chatted much, I asked you a question before we started. And, um, well, first of all, I said, how can we be different this year? Uh, when it's episodes with just unite or with guests, we're going to have more guests coming on. Of course, if you're people who prefer those as opposed to just Aaron and I, don't worry, we're going to have a big roster of guests coming on.

00:10:29.74
Seth Macey
Um, but I asked you, you know, how can we shake things up a little bit in 2025? How can we be different? How can we take some chances ah with the show, with our own practice? Um, it's not a question for you to answer. Just, I think that's something I'm keeping in mind. How can I, how can I,

00:10:46.05
Seth Macey
in a smart way, take more chances and think more outside of the box and do more creative things and avoid kind of getting stuck in a lane, maybe a lane that's working for you, but it's maybe becoming too routine. And you know, we said we're just going to kind of chill today. We're feeling feeling very mellow and I asked you kind of just like where's your head at with photography with with all this and your camera as someone who's been doing it for a while and um based on your answer if there's a lot of people listening I'm sure there are who are looking for new podcasts because they're interested in photography this year, you know, lots of resolution type stuff, which is great. Don't ever shame people for the resolutions. I think it's awesome that people are interested in getting curious about things. ah Where are you kind of at? And um be told it in a way that's helpful for some newer folk.

00:11:43.01
Aaron
Yeah, where am I at in 2025 when I really started pushing hard in 2019, the end of, so let's call it five years and some.

00:11:58.30
Aaron
um I ah think I'm at a crossroads, to be honest. I think there's gonna be some overlap and I think I'm gonna settle into through 2025 oh how I really want to utilize and practice this skill ah with ebbs and flows. I'm sure there's going to be ups and downs, but ah you can look back. You can look back at your own. You can look back at your own social media. You can look back at what you were doing five years ago and and kind of be like, no, that wasn't really me. You know, like I was, I was pushing something or trying something.

00:12:41.48
Aaron
Again, all good things. I think it's really good that early stage of creation and like figuring out what sticks and what you like and doing all these things. But I think it's only natural to come to a point where you're like, I don't really enjoy doing that. I don't really love doing that.

00:13:00.62
Aaron
I was doing that for different reasons. I was doing that for a following.

00:13:04.09
Seth Macey
you

00:13:05.28
Aaron
I was doing the that for a girl's attention.

00:13:05.32
Seth Macey
I like this.

00:13:08.61
Aaron
I was doing that to look like a good dad, like whatever it could be.

00:13:17.15
Seth Macey
I like this. I like this. or I know you're just giving examples that could be could fit anybody.

00:13:23.62
Aaron
Mm-hmm.

00:13:24.16
Seth Macey
Are there some things you feel like you look back and you think, You're not regretful, right? But you're like, that was not being done the way,

00:13:30.72
Aaron
Oh.

00:13:35.87
Aaron
Yeah.

00:13:35.90
Seth Macey
you know, it's not me.

00:13:36.92
Aaron
Yeah.

00:13:36.88
Seth Macey
It's incredible how hard it is to be yourself. Does that make sense? It can be, it it's, it's, it's weird how you almost have to try hard to be you. And I feel like as you come into who you normally are through self exploration, whatever way that is, whether that's through your art or

00:13:49.72
Aaron
Yeah.

00:13:56.69
Seth Macey
pick anything. I think it's so I'm going to be corny, like beautiful. Right and freeing.

00:14:07.49
Aaron
Yeah, I agree. It's very hard to be truly just who you are in anything in a relationship in your representation of yourself. It's it's like you have this idea of who you are you have the which is essentially your your ego the story that which you tell yourself of who you are and then you have that story and you try to display it And sometimes it gets lost in translation, that display of your ego.

00:14:41.56
Seth Macey
Mm.

00:14:43.57
Aaron
and ah Personal examples, I look back when I was doing like the Instagram live stuff and like doing musical interludes and doing songs and song and dance literally, not dance, but like like look look at I can play guitar I want to show the world like that kind of stuff was forced attention seeking stuff and at the time seemed like a good idea but now looking back on it is like that's not entirely who I am or who I was in that moment it's sort of like like that stuff went away and it's one thing if I stuck with it or

00:15:25.71
Aaron
If you play music and you wanna show it, if you do anything and you wanna show it and you're consistently like consistently, that's you and that's what you wanna do. I'm all for everyone being and doing whatever they want to do.

00:15:38.93
Seth Macey
Mm.

00:15:39.49
Aaron
I think sometimes, and maybe I'm just speaking for myself, we do a lot of things for other reasons than like we truly want to do them.

00:15:51.18
Aaron
we just were like searching. It's like a searching thing. And you see it a lot. I feel like and this is where I'm getting getting a little tired of social media in certain ways. And we've talked about it all the time. But like, I'm also I'm also older. I've also lived without it like it sometimes it becomes very apparent like uh like i i say this a lot like are you okay like are you okay like it just doesn't seem and we've heard all the quotes like the more curated your social media is maybe the less happy you are in real life and all the memes and things like that uh it's a highlight reel it's this it's that it's the other

00:16:37.29
Aaron
Like sometimes it's just like, God, it's like a lot. It's just a lot. And I'm on there far too much. I'm ingesting far too much of it. I know that from 2024. And the last thing like I've created was a complete satire of how I feel about the whole thing. I haven't posted it yet. It's, it's done, but it's like a satire of Like this is, this is wildlife photography and it's complete just videos of yourself, which is ironic and funny. Like modern wildlife photography is autobiographical narratives of self-portrait videography. A lot of the time, not everyone

00:17:28.40
Aaron
It's just rare that anyone gets attention now for just posting photos of birds or this or that. And that's it. You have to play the game if you want that result and that's fine.

00:17:41.72
Aaron
But I think it's taking us away from the thing that we love.

00:17:45.50
Seth Macey
Yeah.

00:17:46.92
Aaron
And that's what's somewhat like frustrating. And in one of those moments where maybe I'm catching it early where it's like, Oh, don't look back on this and be like, I was like, what what were you doing?

00:18:00.06
Aaron
Like all these reels about, you know, whatever your experience and taking away from just going out there.

00:18:10.82
Aaron
I took my camera down to the shoreline on New Year's day. Uh, I didn't, I didn't see much. I took some pictures of seagulls and to be honest, it was really fun and it was nice.

00:18:23.16
Seth Macey
yeah that's all

00:18:26.36
Aaron
It was cold, it was windy, it was outside, but it was the first time like...

00:18:26.32
Seth Macey
ah yeah

00:18:31.31
Aaron
Oh, i'm I'm doing the craft and I don't have to post these because you know what? or It doesn't matter. It's not gonna, it's not, it's not like it used to be like on a timeline and like trying to get certain amount of likes.

00:18:44.27
Aaron
And it's like, this was just fun to be here.

00:18:46.94
Seth Macey
Yeah,

00:18:47.19
Aaron
This is why I like it. I like being outside. I like, I like the nature.

00:18:50.30
Seth Macey
that's awesome.

00:18:50.73
Aaron
I like, I like seeing a seagull pick up ah a little snail and drop it and try to break it open. That's interesting. You know, like over and over, that was fun.

00:18:58.95
Seth Macey
Yeah.

00:19:01.27
Aaron
Let me try to catch the photo of it dropping it right away. Like, Oh, this this is challenging.

00:19:04.40
Seth Macey
Yeah.

00:19:07.28
Aaron
That's what, that's what's fun.

00:19:07.42
Seth Macey
Yeah. It's funny you say that. I looked at my camera the other day and it had dust on it.

00:19:14.02
Seth Macey
And I was like, what's going on?

00:19:14.13
Aaron
Wow. Wow.

00:19:20.31
Seth Macey
It had dust on it, man.

00:19:20.56
Aaron
Yeah.

00:19:21.70
Seth Macey
And I was like, to your point, there's

00:19:28.20
Seth Macey
not not a what happened moment because I feel like as you scale and you know the podcast that we built around photography there's a lot of other things calling you can't be shooting all the time you know I mean you can but for what I'm trying to do or what you're trying to do there is a lot of email there's a lot of this and that and it had just been a while and I looked at it and I was like that needs a swiffer

00:19:55.40
Aaron
Yeah.

00:19:56.83
Seth Macey
And, uh, so I, I haven't shot yet, but I, last night I took two hours and I just edited in light room and I was having so much fun. I edited some photos of a Fox from a few weeks ago. People are mad at me like, you didn't edit the Fox right away. No. Uh, and it was just so.

00:20:23.00
Seth Macey
So awesome. Um, another thing I've been thinking about is the concept of that. Well, another thing I've been trying to do or I plan to do, and I'm going to keep in the forefront of my brain throughout this entire year. Cause I do this every year. I pick like a theme is essentialism, which sort of ties into minimalism, but more in the sense of,

00:20:49.92
Seth Macey
Is this essential to what I'm trying to do? Absolutely necessary. And if I don't, if it's not a hell yeah, that I want to do this thing, I'm just going to say no to myself or to other people in a way to better refine what's important to me. And so,

00:21:18.06
Seth Macey
I've been enjoying that. I've been doing this thing now for the last couple weeks where I'm doing yeah one project a day, working on an essential project for two to three hours. And then I have Two other, I'll do two other tasks that are urgent and important. And then three other maintenance tasks, sending an email, stretching, doing the dishes. And like, that's my day where it's productive. And now the rest is fun, fulfilling things that I'm excited to do, whether that is more work or whether it's like a board game with family or friends and just getting into the habit of

00:22:01.77
Seth Macey
Not trying to take bite sized pieces out of everything and then getting absolutely nothing done and not enjoying and having fun. It's, uh, I believe it's called the one, two, three method by Greg McKeown.

00:22:18.10
Seth Macey
And, uh, it's been, it's been cool as opposed to, I used to have a to-do list with, you know, tons of stuff on it. And you feel like you're getting all these things done.

00:22:29.01
Seth Macey
And I'm coming to the realization, this is another thing moving forward that busy is not productive and just trying to dig in more deeply into less things and being satisfied with that.

00:22:35.70
Aaron
yeah

00:22:48.20
Aaron
Yeah, I like that and I touched on that. I think it was last week in terms of picking projects and just really finding my people, finding where it is I want to be spending my time working.

00:22:54.18
Seth Macey
and Yeah.

00:23:07.42
Aaron
Like I don't.

00:23:10.40
Aaron
I agree. i think I mean, our time, everyone's time, is again, an incredible asset, like our our time on earth, right? i don't want to I don't want to be spending it fighting about invoices or money or work or anything like having hassles.

00:23:32.25
Aaron
And you learn the hard way sometimes. And I'm going to take those lessons in the last four years and apply them to trusting my gut, feeling red flags, feeling things that like ah I think we're not a great match.

00:23:48.27
Seth Macey
Yeah.

00:23:50.08
Aaron
Like then that's OK. Let's let's i'm going to go our separate ways. No hard feelings. This is not going to it's not going to work out in a nice way, of course.

00:24:01.77
Aaron
But I think that's gonna save a ah lot of hassle, you know, and ah I'm just I really want to go through I want to gain back time to have those moments to go down to the shore and take photos of birds or wait in the woods every once in a while that my wildlife time in nature time last year. Alaska was amazing. A few other trips. But there's things I didn't do that I did have done every year. I've taken my kayak out. I've had a really nice kayak at least two sunrises every single year since I've been in photography.

00:24:41.04
Aaron
which is kind of a pain in the butt to put it on the car, strap it all in, go down before sunrise, get out there, get to a spot and enjoy the sunrise. Worth it, but a pain in the butt. And I did not do that once this year. And that struck me as I was cleaning out the garage and I saw the kayak, just like you had dust on the thing. and I was like, damn, it's expensive kayak. I didn't feel like I had the time or the energy to make it happen this year.

00:25:08.91
Aaron
So what what took its place? Was it the passions gone? No, I love I love doing that. So what was I exhausted? Was I too tired? Like what what happened there? And I remember very vividly how much I loved the game of golf in my 30s. And when I started teaching it And that was fun, too, being able to teach it and have lessons.

00:25:34.11
Aaron
And I was doing online lessons. I was going to places and and doing lessons multiple times a month. I was doing daily online swing reviews through a company.

00:25:48.01
Aaron
I got to a point where like the last thing I wanted to do was go play golf myself.

00:25:52.77
Seth Macey
Great.

00:25:53.36
Aaron
I was doing it for everyone else. And like none of the ah the passion that was there in the beginning was there. And I always remember that lesson of like, I still love golf and I still love playing, but I don't practice anymore. i don't like ah I can't indulge in it like I used to for lots of reasons, but it's just that shift was that sort of like you you get to a point where the hobby, the passion becomes like teaching or

00:26:25.57
Aaron
podcasting or doing all these other things for different clients and you don't have the time or the enthusiasm to then go take photos of seagulls down by the water.

00:26:37.51
Seth Macey
Mm hmm.

00:26:38.89
Aaron
And it's okay, but it depends if you're then enjoying it. are you Is the passion of teaching golf the same as playing? Does that fill that cup in the same way? Does the passion of doing product photography for someone that doesn't respect your work or doesn't love it or it's really hard and difficult, it doesn't pay well, it takes up tons of your hours.

00:27:05.69
Aaron
Is that worth not being able to go down to downs at the beach for free and and take photos? it's all It's all that balance game that we talk about. And I think 2025, if there's anything I'm going to do is try to really balance the good from the needed, the essential, all that.

00:27:27.10
Seth Macey
Yeah, I think what you and I are talking about in the same way is being ruthless with cutting out noise.

00:27:33.96
Aaron
Yeah.

00:27:35.24
Seth Macey
Like cut the cut the noise, identify the noise. but What is essentially useless and crap that's taking up space in my brain and just unapologetically get rid of it.

00:27:49.23
Aaron
Yeah.

00:27:50.00
Seth Macey
You know, I'm keeping that concept close to me moving forward the throughout the year and you're not shows itself in, you can show itself in plenty of ways.

00:28:00.22
Seth Macey
I mean, I'm even, We talk about this a lot, the ah criteria for unfollowing people. I think following a thousand people is insane. You want to talk about noise? I mean to to each their own, but you want to talk about noise. A thousand people.

00:28:17.21
Seth Macey
And I, in the past I've had my criteria and this isn't to make me sound, I'm not trying to sound righteous or better than other people, but I'm just like, I've been going back through my following and thinking in what way does this serve me? Is, is, is this noise? Do I care about, I'm not, i' I'm going to say it. I'm not going to feel sorry about it. Do I care about this person's life?

00:28:45.11
Aaron
Yeah, that's fine. you

00:28:46.63
Seth Macey
No, I'm gone.

00:28:47.38
Aaron
um

00:28:48.08
Seth Macey
Even like friends that from high school that I was really close with where i I'm clicking on follow is like, I feel so bad about this.

00:28:56.32
Aaron
Yeah.

00:28:56.97
Seth Macey
Why? It's not essential.

00:28:58.68
Aaron
yeah

00:28:59.23
Seth Macey
It's noise. Your dog's cute. Every single photo of it though is just taking up space for maybe less people that are more important to me in my life.

00:29:11.31
Seth Macey
You, Haley, other people. There's only so much brain power that can go around. And I think I'm trying to go in with precision and just get rid of stuff that's not essential everywhere.

00:29:31.22
Aaron
Yeah, everywhere, the, the house, the but why, why do I have still sneakers from college?

00:29:44.44
Aaron
You know, it's like, it's like those things where you, I think, I think that, that a whole attachment part to lots of things.

00:29:44.82
Seth Macey
I know.

00:29:54.93
Aaron
Why is it hard to unfollow someone that you've never, like you barely talked to?

00:29:58.98
Seth Macey
I think because you have to let go of a past life. and it's it's ah It's a construct of who you were or maybe somebody who you... It's it's an it's the art of letting go of yourself, which can be very difficult, especially if you're someone who's very sentimental. But I ah try to keep in mind, I think it's in Meditations, the theme Meditations by Marcus Aurelius, is that every second Everything we've just said in the past 30 minutes behind us, it's it's dead.

00:30:27.78
Seth Macey
It's your your past life is dead from now on. You're reborn every second, you know, is the best way I can kind of explain it.

00:30:32.71
Aaron
Yeah.

00:30:36.44
Seth Macey
And that to me makes total sense in in aiding you in this concept of executing it. I should look at the actual quote.

00:30:48.76
Aaron
Yeah. And it's the, uh, it also could be people pleasing like, Oh, that person's been really, they've liked my photos in the past. They've been supportive. Uh, maybe they'll notice if I, you know, it's, it could be a lot of that too.

00:31:02.29
Aaron
We used to talk seems harsh to unfollow them.

00:31:09.79
Seth Macey
Yeah.

00:31:10.62
Aaron
Maybe I will wear that sweater that I haven't worn in three years.

00:31:14.67
Seth Macey
Right.

00:31:14.84
Aaron
Maybe.

00:31:16.57
Seth Macey
Here it is. I found the quote.

00:31:18.52
Aaron
hit me yeah yeah it's powerful it's the same with uh it's the same with like turning healthy getting healthy exercising say like oh i i had a

00:31:19.33
Seth Macey
Marcus Aurelius. Think of yourself as dead. You have lived your life. Now take what's left and live it properly.

00:31:31.39
Seth Macey
I love that.

00:31:42.27
Seth Macey
Right.

00:31:45.55
Seth Macey
I've been overweight my whole life. I've been unhealthy my whole life.

00:31:48.59
Aaron
Or even to the day I had a pizza for lunch, like what's the point?

00:31:48.81
Seth Macey
That part of you is dead.

00:31:52.63
Aaron
Might as well just have the rest of it for dinner versus saying like, yeah, like your next, make your next decision, your best decision.

00:31:53.35
Seth Macey
Right. That part of you is dead.

00:32:00.14
Seth Macey
Right.

00:32:01.33
Aaron
That sort of thing.

00:32:01.36
Seth Macey
And I think that ties in what we're talking with what we're talking about.

00:32:08.26
Aaron
Yeah.

00:32:11.69
Aaron
So yeah, bringing it back to photography and life. That's what this shows about if you're a first time listener.

00:32:16.68
Seth Macey
in.

00:32:21.89
Aaron
re-calibrating and reassessing. It's been a while. it's been a It's been a while. We've done a lot of stuff. we've We've grown, we've pivoted, we've taken on new responsibilities, new things, new avenues in this whole career. Five years ago, there's no thought in my mind. We've been doing a podcast for you for 251 episodes, me for a little bit less, but That's not even a thought in my mind. And here we are.

00:32:54.44
Aaron
and

00:32:57.84
Seth Macey
Mm hmm.

00:32:58.02
Aaron
It sometimes you have to sub out of your own life, I feel like, and just audit it and say, whoa, what, where am I? Cause it gets away. Like where am I putting my energy? Where am I putting all my time? Where am I putting my, my assets? And sometimes you have to step out and pause. And that's kind of what this break was. It was really nice to not be traveling.

00:33:28.50
Aaron
not really doing much of anything just kind of doing what I wanted to do day by day and not have any projects on my head over my head not having any editing I needed to do it was nice to just sort of observe how

00:33:46.60
Seth Macey
Yeah, I think it's and important to have free time to just think and ponder. You know, we, we do so much. i mean Folks do so much to avoid that.

00:34:01.13
Aaron
Yeah, I mean, everyone out there is probably grinding in certain ways. And I every, there's a great, I have it right here. I'm gonna mess with my camera. ah Shoot, I gotta take it.

00:34:16.92
Seth Macey
I don't know what you are reaching for.

00:34:20.67
Aaron
Nope, it's not even that, I just ruined just ruined everything. um

00:34:26.67
Seth Macey
Did you fix your camera?

00:34:30.40
Aaron
I didn't ruin it, but, uh, there is a self journal that's broken down to three month intervals.

00:34:37.57
Seth Macey
Hmm.

00:34:38.57
Aaron
Um, and I like that. I like, I like the length of that sort of goal. Do something for three months, four months, two months, one month, you know, really, really put your all into it and then assess where you're at.

00:34:56.72
Aaron
Assess the, ah feelings you've had after it, the the the thoughts, the the emotions towards it.

00:35:06.10
Seth Macey
Yeah, yeah,

00:35:08.95
Aaron
I found it. Self journal. So for example, it just gives you weekly milestones. So what is most important this week?

00:35:27.69
Seth Macey
yeah essential.

00:35:28.48
Aaron
Each day, habit and activity. Any goals? What is the happiest thing that happened this week? What were your three big wins for the week?

00:35:39.09
Aaron
Review your goal and assess your progress. How did you spend your time this week? How will you improve next week? What was the biggest lesson you learned this week? And then it goes to week two. You just keep on going through it.

00:35:53.15
Aaron
And then at the end, it gives like a whole thing.

00:35:53.34
Seth Macey
and

00:35:57.98
Seth Macey
yeah Yeah, I want to go way back to the start of our you're not affiliated with this all just so people know, right?

00:36:04.85
Aaron
No, not at all. it's um You can get a pack of them I got a bunch years ago. They're called self journals.

00:36:13.40
Seth Macey
Yeah, I guess something like that is a tool to

00:36:19.89
Seth Macey
Like you said, assess audit because I really think that that's the, for a lot of folks, like that's the the most difficult part is realizing you need an audit because it's not, it's because it's difficult to, you don't know what you don't know.

00:36:34.06
Aaron
Yeah.

00:36:39.19
Seth Macey
Right.

00:36:39.35
Aaron
Right.

00:36:39.78
Seth Macey
So often the hardest

00:36:44.19
Seth Macey
part of changing directions or implementing a new principle is noticing that you need to and others are, some are better at it than others, right?

00:37:02.37
Aaron
Oh, I lost you.

00:38:03.45
Aaron
Hey.

00:38:04.31
Seth Macey
hey

00:38:07.62
Aaron
You were saying that you needed a.

00:38:08.77
Seth Macey
Hey, we go P anyways. I wrote down where it, you can just make a cut.

00:38:13.40
Aaron
Yeah.

00:38:13.57
Seth Macey
I wrote the time.

00:39:17.42
Aaron
All right.

00:39:18.54
Seth Macey
We'll wrap it up soon. This is a friend of mine visiting down the road who's leaving tomorrow.

00:39:23.03
Aaron
Oh, nice. Yeah. Yeah.

00:39:24.96
Seth Macey
Yeah.

00:39:25.41
Aaron
Uh, we're a minute in. Do you have a new video?

00:39:28.64
Seth Macey
No.

00:39:29.75
Aaron
Okay. Uh, that's fine.

00:39:32.00
Seth Macey
Oh, I kept her running.

00:39:34.14
Aaron
Just so you kept it running. You still need to clap though.

00:39:38.32
Seth Macey
Seth.

00:39:41.01
Aaron
Aaron.

00:39:43.25
Seth Macey
Okay, yeah, I'll just tell you where the cut was last one.

00:39:45.80
Aaron
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

00:39:49.94
Seth Macey
What was I saying? i I remember, I remember, I remember.

00:39:51.70
Aaron
Uh, you do.

00:39:53.42
Seth Macey
Yes.

00:39:54.06
Aaron
I do. If you need help.

00:39:59.47
Seth Macey
I think what can be the most difficult part of trying to implement a change or institute a new principle is queuing in that you need to do those things, right? We don't, it's hard to know what you don't know.

00:40:18.99
Seth Macey
Right. So almost the queue is often the most difficult part.

00:40:25.30
Aaron
Yeah, it's why most people, and I shouldn't say most necessarily, but a lot of people only change when they hit rock bottom in any sort of scenario or like something bad happens or there is a wake up call a two by four to the head.

00:40:39.10
Aaron
That's like you got to make some changes. This is not working.

00:40:42.97
Seth Macey
Right.

00:40:43.63
Aaron
You know, so because when you're in it, it is very hard to see.

00:40:50.29
Aaron
This is not this is not really me. Sometimes you need space. you need ah You need time to be able to look back and be like, oh, wow.

00:41:01.17
Aaron
always kind of like it Think about to your middle school style, your your eighth grade yearbooks and the the way we styled our hair and what we thought was cool.

00:41:06.07
Seth Macey
holster

00:41:10.78
Aaron
and

00:41:10.97
Seth Macey
was cool for you in eighth grade I want to know and I'll tell you what was cool for me.

00:41:14.56
Aaron
and eighth grade I'll just give middle school overall. I don't remember exactly eighth grade. but ah At one point in middle school, fifth or sixth grade, people were tapering their jeans.

00:41:26.62
Aaron
They were folding them over in that way and then rolling them twice. So they were really tight to the ankle.

00:41:29.92
Seth Macey
Okay.

00:41:31.72
Aaron
That was cool. Skid pants were cool, which were like ah the MC Hammer pants. That was cool.

00:41:37.04
Seth Macey
parachute pants.

00:41:38.15
Aaron
Yeah. Parachute pants.

00:41:39.74
Seth Macey
Jeez.

00:41:40.76
Aaron
Um, tips like frosted tips.

00:41:43.30
Seth Macey
I had those at age 10 and 11. I had frosted tip side highlights.

00:41:46.56
Aaron
Yeah, that got cool.

00:41:46.85
Seth Macey
They put the cap on and then they poke your hair through the thing and then they dye it and kill all your hair cells.

00:41:52.10
Aaron
Yeah.

00:41:52.94
Seth Macey
We walk around with Chad Kroger from Nickelback.

00:41:53.23
Aaron
Uh,

00:41:55.56
Seth Macey
Wow, we really take tons of turns on this show. holy

00:41:57.75
Aaron
yeah, me too. Tight eyes. That was cool.

00:42:00.84
Seth Macey
Okay.

00:42:01.97
Aaron
Um, Oh.

00:42:04.02
Seth Macey
I was going to make the Aegis joke. I was going to say, is that because, you know, you were at Woodstock.

00:42:07.19
Aaron
Yeah. Yeah. I wish. Uh, at one point the double polo, and two polos collared.

00:42:12.95
Seth Macey
What?

00:42:15.40
Seth Macey
Double polo.

00:42:16.67
Aaron
Yeah.

00:42:16.64
Seth Macey
I'm like, come on.

00:42:16.95
Aaron
Isn't that nuts? Yeah.

00:42:20.73
Seth Macey
That's insane.

00:42:22.30
Aaron
That's insanity right there.

00:42:23.88
Seth Macey
That is.

00:42:25.26
Aaron
Two different colors popped.

00:42:27.96
Seth Macey
That's mental.

00:42:28.66
Aaron
Are you seeing it? Is it a thing?

00:42:30.26
Seth Macey
Yeah. I'm on Google images. Double polo.

00:42:31.57
Aaron
Yeah. Yeah. It's a thing. I'm gonna bring it back.

00:42:36.27
Seth Macey
Geez, please do.

00:42:36.57
Aaron
Alaska 2025. I'm bringing back double polo.

00:42:41.34
Seth Macey
Yeah. Wow. For me, it was, you know, the Hollister Abercrombie, Fitch, the, uh, plaid shorts that were basically capris.

00:42:47.15
Aaron
Yeah.

00:42:53.83
Seth Macey
Uh,

00:42:54.57
Aaron
Yeah, yeah, those were yes.

00:42:56.85
Seth Macey
Everybody with the iPod Minis, iPod Nano.

00:43:01.24
Aaron
Oh, classic.

00:43:01.61
Seth Macey
It's a big one. It held two gigabytes of songs. Kind of a big deal.

00:43:05.24
Aaron
Classic kind of a big deal.

00:43:07.98
Seth Macey
and MSN Messenger, oh what it was like is like which is like AOL, I guess.

00:43:13.00
Aaron
Yeah.

00:43:16.22
Seth Macey
Curly long hair.

00:43:18.75
Aaron
Cabbage.

00:43:18.97
Seth Macey
Bass Pro hats. Do you know what Bass Pro is? like a bell

00:43:21.34
Aaron
Yeah, that's big now with the middle school kids, yep.

00:43:22.82
Seth Macey
Let's come back. Come back. The Cabela, Cabela's Bass Pro Hat.

00:43:28.28
Aaron
That's interesting. I didn't, I never knew that was a thing and I thought it came out of nowhere and I was like, I don't, it's like, I don't get.

00:43:31.54
Seth Macey
Oh, I'll find you some photos. I had a Bass Pro Hat collection. I had all the colors.

00:43:36.58
Aaron
Wow. So it maybe it drifted down from Canada. Like blew down.

00:43:40.85
Seth Macey
Maybe it's delayed.

00:43:42.04
Aaron
It's delayed.

00:43:42.63
Seth Macey
You know, like other countries get like, get American movies two decades later.

00:43:45.30
Aaron
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

00:43:47.80
Seth Macey
Maybe maybe we just, we dropped our drip down to you.

00:43:51.13
Aaron
Yeah. Wow. You guys started it.

00:43:53.90
Seth Macey
posers that was wearing bass pro hats.

00:43:54.66
Aaron
Hmm.

00:43:57.71
Seth Macey
Well into, into high school.

00:44:03.12
Aaron
It's such a weird, it's such a weird, um, advertisement or like a choice. Why? Why?

00:44:12.31
Seth Macey
It's like a flex. I don't know. I guess want to pose being a fisherman and angler.

00:44:16.73
Aaron
I could.

00:44:20.10
Seth Macey
I don't know.

00:44:20.64
Aaron
Yeah. Is that it? Is, is that the end he shop there?

00:44:24.85
Seth Macey
um I think more than anything kids tons of it's yeah any trend. It's like any trend. It gets momentum and people are like I want on.

00:44:32.37
Aaron
Yeah, like the Stanley cups now.

00:44:34.41
Seth Macey
Yeah. It starts with a few people who don't care what others think. They make a statement, the exude confidence.

00:44:43.23
Aaron
Yeah.

00:44:43.53
Seth Macey
It gets picked up. It's creative. It's unique. And other people say, I want to be like that. A couple famous people start doing it. Everyone's like, oh, that's unique and new and trendy. And then everyone hops on.

00:44:54.44
Seth Macey
And then there's a counterculture that says the story of life and social media and everything.

00:44:57.54
Aaron
Yeah.

00:44:59.71
Seth Macey
You know?

00:44:59.89
Aaron
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

00:45:02.34
Seth Macey
To end our show, I want to rewind back to something at the start, like way at the start where you said you would post, cause I struggle with this sometimes you would post things for the wrong reasons.

00:45:07.35
Aaron
Way back.

00:45:19.21
Seth Macey
I kind of want to maybe know if you're comfortable, what some of those wrong reasons were and how you know the difference or how you figured out the difference between

00:45:30.41
Seth Macey
posting for the right reasons versus the wrong reasons. And i I say that I struggle with this because every time I think I mentioned I go to click post, I just feel gross because I don't like, and maybe maybe people can write it. Maybe I'm looking at this the whole wrong way, but a lot of the time it's, I struggle with the idea that

00:45:54.23
Seth Macey
Softly, cause we're every post is a soft brag. Look at how artistic I am, look at what I'm doing, which is fine.

00:46:02.70
Seth Macey
I struggle with the mimi me, me, me, me, me. I'm not suggesting that everybody who's posting before they come and grill me, that when you press post, it's me, me, me, me, me.

00:46:13.91
Seth Macey
But if we're being honest and we're sharing things because we want a little bit of that, we must, we must.

00:46:20.81
Aaron
Yeah, you

00:46:21.10
Seth Macey
Otherwise you'd keep it to yourself. I struggle with that. I think I'm

00:46:27.97
Seth Macey
maybe incorrectly labeling that giving myself therapy or labeling that as a bad thing is being egotistical in any regard, a bad thing.

00:46:40.42
Aaron
no it's not, but you are, I think you're correct in your assessment and I think people can come and torch me because I don't,

00:46:49.47
Seth Macey
Okay. Torture and you heard it. Tommy, we'll get torched one day publicly.

00:46:51.22
Aaron
I ah don't really care that much. One day, if we've made it, we'll get torched.

00:46:56.99
Seth Macey
yeah

00:47:00.34
Aaron
One hundred percent.

00:47:04.45
Aaron
It is about me and external validation.

00:47:09.51
Seth Macey
It has to be right.

00:47:11.07
Aaron
Yes, because the proof in the pudding is everyone that says. Everyone that's thought. Oh, this algorithm algorithm sucks.

00:47:23.97
Aaron
Oh, I'm not getting the likes that I used to. Let's find a Vero app or let's go on to Twitter.

00:47:30.80
Seth Macey
Right.

00:47:32.69
Aaron
yeah It's a great community over there. where What you're running to is more attention, better attention.

00:47:42.40
Seth Macey
So do you think just in, are we just talking socials? Cause people listening could say, well, why do you guys publish episodes? and and

00:47:51.08
Aaron
Yeah, no, I i i so would say you're correct.

00:47:56.10
Seth Macey
But it's not all for external validation.

00:47:56.33
Aaron
You're correct.

00:47:58.65
Seth Macey
I love it when people are like, great episode. That was helpful. Of course that feels good. But I just to defend some creators,

00:48:09.04
Seth Macey
that That exists, but I think there's also like, there's also a lot where it's, I want to help or I want to, yeah.

00:48:09.19
Aaron
No, they there can sure where they' they're consuming. consuming. They're consuming us.

00:48:21.46
Aaron
But, uh, if, if we're 250 episodes in and you're coming to me and you're saying, dude, like, I think one person listened this week and it it was probably me cause I pressed play on it at some point, at some, at some point, I'd be like, Hey, this, this is, this is it okay.

00:48:21.38
Seth Macey
what

00:48:32.77
Seth Macey
It's a true story.

00:48:41.52
Aaron
This is fun. Like I enjoy it, but. Like we've done it for four years and not one, not one person, no one person's listening.

00:48:47.44
Seth Macey
Yeah, you're there to get out. you're yeah

00:48:50.50
Aaron
So it's not just for.

00:48:53.39
Seth Macey
Well, then you start thinking, okay, well, maybe the advice we're giving is bad. Maybe the, you start queuing in on, maybe I'm not helpful. Maybe I'm not as funny as I thought I was. And maybe that inspires you to go in a different direction and improve upon the skill you're trying to improve.

00:49:08.74
Aaron
I think it's a good thing to have this I don't think external validation is terrible. I think it promotes, Oh, I want to do better. Oh, I want to post this picture. Oh, I want to take the time to edit this photo where I normally would just be watching TV. I want to learn this song because I'm going to be playing it in front of people at a restaurant. Like all of that stuff.

00:49:29.66
Aaron
has to do with entertaining people and being a ah center of attention in some sort of way, or me, me, me, I, I, I, and finding our place in this world, sort of like an existential crisis sort of thing. We can get super deep here, but I think deep down, like the social media part of it is 100%, like you said, is doing it for oh a lot of that sort of, look how cool I am.

00:50:02.31
Aaron
And that's so that's okay. I don't hate it, but I just think it can get out of out of hand and you can lose yourself.

00:50:06.59
Seth Macey
what do you.

00:50:10.98
Aaron
You can lose like, this is not what I really want to be doing, but I'm addicted to this thing. I'm addicted to this like process, the idea of it.

00:50:20.68
Seth Macey
or the idea that

00:50:24.67
Aaron
It's like we're all but I see this from a humble place as I'm on a podcast with another guy and we're promoting our own stuff. I totally get the irony in the whole thing. And I'm admitting that it is part of it. It's cool and feels good to say, I a i have a photography podcast about photography and we we go on trips. We host trips yearly. It feels good.

00:50:54.79
Seth Macey
I think it also feels good though because you've also earned it.

00:50:59.69
Aaron
or earned it or not, feels it feels good. Like it, I mean, that whole part of it feels good.

00:51:04.17
Seth Macey
Yeah.

00:51:04.96
Aaron
People writing in, people saying, you know, seeing growth, seeing trends, people saying we want to sponsor with you, like anything like that feels, feels great.

00:51:15.45
Aaron
External validation is not awful.

00:51:18.51
Seth Macey
Right.

00:51:18.65
Aaron
It's not terrible.

00:51:19.28
Seth Macey
Oh, you're right.

00:51:20.21
Aaron
But if you, if that's the reason we've had this hypothetical question, if social media didn't exist, would you still be a photographer?

00:51:24.35
Seth Macey
Right.

00:51:29.17
Seth Macey
Yeah, of course.

00:51:29.95
Aaron
the The amount of photos that are edited would decline by throwing a random number out there, but what I feel in my gut, 80%.

00:51:41.61
Aaron
You run those numbers, check how many photos come out on Instagram a day, and then

00:51:42.76
Seth Macey
Yeah. We need a producer in the other room. We go. Can you run those numbers? Can you yeah actually check that?

00:51:50.39
Seth Macey
So to finish up, what's, what's the, so for people who have, or maybe on the spectrum have a very low desire for any kind of external validation, just based on their personality and who they are. And they struggle with, okay, but it's also helpful for other people. If you share your content, maybe it inspires them. People like animals speaking for a friend here, of course.

00:52:20.30
Aaron
yeah

00:52:21.70
Seth Macey
What's the recipe? Is the recipe stay off, you know, platforms? Is the recipe don't show anyone your work? What is it for people who are, they just, there's not a high desire to, to reach for what you just described, external validation. And again, that's not to your point. It doesn't seem like that's a bad thing, right? Based on your arguments. What's, what's the move?

00:53:05.96
Seth Macey
You you you even owe it maybe to people who can't can't have those experiences. Like you're just going to sit on those. Are you crazy? I'm well within my rights too. I'm fulfilled shooting and filming. We've mentioned that before and talking about, you know, back to our conversation about essentialism. Am I, when I ask myself, do I want to post this on social media? Remember my criteria for doing things moving forward within then reason was going to be hell yeah. Or it's a no.

00:53:34.54
Seth Macey
It's not a hell yeah, not even close, not even close on the list of things I want to do in a day.

00:53:35.99
Aaron
Yeah.

00:53:41.73
Seth Macey
So if I follow that rule every single day, is it a hell yeah? If it's not, then it's a full blown no. I will never post again, unless I can find an emotionally compelling reason to do so.

00:53:49.19
Aaron
Yeah.

00:53:53.40
Seth Macey
And I struggled to because I feel like the ah need for the, the external validation is very low and I'm not trying to sound righteous. That's just me being honest.

00:54:06.09
Aaron
Yeah. And I think everyone will get there in time because it's not a true reflection of your essence. I really think that I don't think you know, the people that you follow that and or yourself, if you look at yourself through a timeline of, and the people that you follow, they're like, Oh, they're really in it.

00:54:34.02
Aaron
Man, they are posting 20 stories a day, multiple posts a day, reels, the time that goes into that must be enormous.

00:54:44.94
Seth Macey
Mm-hmm.

00:54:45.07
Aaron
You've, we've all seen it.

00:54:45.82
Seth Macey
It has to be.

00:54:47.14
Aaron
We've all been there in certain stages and different levels, but we've all been there where it's like, well, I'm full tilt on sharing my work.

00:54:56.04
Seth Macey
Yeah.

00:54:58.16
Aaron
Again, that's okay. But I think in time you start to realize like, That's not what I want to be doing. That's not the answer to the some, I think some emptiness in my cup, something. And again, not in a bad way. And we all have emptiness in our cups, but we try to fill them in certain ways where the the true answer, cliche or not, is like,

00:55:29.31
Aaron
within our own acceptance of who we are. Now, I think hard work comes from a lot of different flash points. Could be a a trauma can turn into an amazing art. A tough childhood can turn into amazing art. A breakup can turn into a award-winning album of sad songs. Like a lot of things can come from refilling that cup. I i think it's amazing.

00:55:58.29
Aaron
But I think there is definitely a difference. I just saw a post from an artist. You might have seen it online because his marketing and his online is really, it's neat. The question is, is the art that special? Yes, that's to be judged. And there's a whole conversation here. This is a whole different podcast, but we've probably seen the the gentleman who swings a ah bucket across a canvas with holes in it and the paint kind of swirls out.

00:56:28.33
Aaron
and makes a design on ah on a big black canvas. He destroys his room. There's paint everywhere. But the pattern of the swinging pendulum creates a design. And I think like an art major and an art teacher professor could argue, like he's not a master of the canvas. Literally anyone could probably swing this thing over this and and come up with some cool designs.

00:56:57.28
Aaron
but he is a master of the art of marketing his art, which, which, which a different thing and a different skill.

00:57:02.90
Seth Macey
ah Which is a different thing, which is fine, but it's a different thing.

00:57:08.54
Aaron
And I think that's what we all have to diffuse of like, what are we do?

00:57:14.70
Seth Macey
Like which of those are we doing right now?

00:57:17.48
Aaron
What are we doing?

00:57:18.82
Seth Macey
Yes.

00:57:19.19
Aaron
And let's not kid ourselves with, uh, I like, I'm a wildlife photographer, but all I do is do videos that promote me.

00:57:31.57
Aaron
That's, that's not, they're not the, they're not aligning.

00:57:32.29
Seth Macey
Right.

00:57:35.24
Aaron
They're not, and it reminds me.

00:57:36.92
Seth Macey
Which is fine, but I think you're suggesting people do that so that they can be it more more at ease in their own head.

00:57:43.36
Aaron
Yeah. I just don't think it's, I don't think it's going to last for those, those influencers, those, uh, social media users.

00:57:51.13
Seth Macey
Well, I'm just saying, I'm just saying, I don't care if people go and do that. You do whatever you want. I really don't care.

00:57:56.08
Aaron
yeah

00:57:56.13
Seth Macey
I think the advice here though is kind of get aligned with or cue into what you are doing in that instance. Otherwise there's going to be like a dissonance and you're going to be on at unease and frustrated.

00:58:07.96
Aaron
Yes.

00:58:10.03
Seth Macey
And what the hell am I doing? And what's the point if you can't?

00:58:12.94
Aaron
Yeah, it's going to it's going to change and fade and move and you're going to have to pivot because it's not going to feel right.

00:58:13.87
Seth Macey
Yeah.

00:58:17.81
Seth Macey
Right.

00:58:18.49
Aaron
There's this artist, Coulter Wall. He's a country singer. I'm not I'm not a huge country fan, but I am a huge fan of Coulter Wall.

00:58:21.22
Seth Macey
Perfect.

00:58:27.54
Aaron
And here is why Coulter Wall is exactly seemingly could be, uh, yup.

00:58:35.78
Seth Macey
He's Canadian.

00:58:38.89
Aaron
Uh, lives.

00:58:38.82
Seth Macey
From Swift Current, Saskatchewan.

00:58:40.80
Aaron
Yeah. It lives up near where we were.

00:58:41.09
Seth Macey
ze

00:58:42.95
Aaron
Uh, he is a rancher. He is living the life. He comes out with songs. They're, I think they're wonderful. They're very true. They're about wrangling cows and doing what he's doing.

00:58:56.24
Aaron
He has a deep, deep voice for a young guy. Uh, it sounds like a a new Johnny cash, uh, Joe Rogan spoke highly of him on the show and wanted him on the show. His answer straight up was, and that's, that's a life changing invitation, right? To be on the Joe Rogan show.

00:59:15.88
Aaron
is a life-changing invitation when you're basically a nobody at that point. He was in a commercial or ah a TV series. He had one song and it kind of took off a bit. He's still not big because of answers like this. He said, uh, no, like I have a ton of ranching to do.

00:59:35.78
Seth Macey
Yeah, I've just read that. He turned down a Joe Rogan appearance that he could do because he had ranching commitments.

00:59:41.09
Aaron
Yeah.

00:59:41.61
Seth Macey
True Canadian Prairie boy right there.

00:59:43.67
Aaron
Right there. And that's.

00:59:45.29
Seth Macey
but That's your point.

00:59:46.99
Aaron
That's like he is real and legit and yet his stock is still rising.

00:59:51.88
Seth Macey
And he's an incredibly talented person and it gets all the points we've said today where it's, Nope, don't want to do that.

00:59:53.67
Aaron
these

00:59:58.10
Aaron
Yeah.

00:59:58.17
Seth Macey
So I'm not gonna. And I think you, you, I think the more you honestly say no to stuff like that, the more people respect you.

01:00:00.77
Aaron
and

01:00:08.78
Seth Macey
And in this case, it seems so it's almost like turning Rogan down would make you more popular in this instance. Cause you're just, you're a hundred percent being honest and true to who you are.

01:00:23.72
Aaron
Yeah. And I think audiences, so everyone that you're trying to show your work to, if anything has a tremendous bullshit reader, we all do, whether we can pinpoint it or not. I think we're all pretty good at being like, huh, this is, this is forced or fake or pushed or whatever. And just, I don't know. I don't know. I think.

01:00:54.34
Aaron
I think a lot of things, obviously. That's why thats why I'm here. I'm the chatter with you.

01:00:59.45
Seth Macey
Yeah.

01:01:01.90
Aaron
That's my job, my chat. ah But I do, to recap my thoughts, I think here, is external validation is, I think, needed a part of life. I don't expect everyone to be ah a monk, ah silent in a cave, and not needing anything from the world and being completely happy.

01:01:20.08
Aaron
I don't think that's the answer. I do think you said it beautifully that when you're out of alignment where there's disease, right? Dislike it's out of ease.

01:01:32.43
Seth Macey
Yeah.

01:01:35.08
Aaron
That's where it starts to eat away at you, or it just doesn't last. It doesn't go the distance because it's not genuine. You're doing too much of the other stuff, not the stuff that you really fell in love with.

01:01:53.15
Seth Macey
Amen to that, man. Till next time, let's end our raid on that and and look out for that Alaska 2025.

01:01:57.02
Aaron
Take care.

01:02:02.55
Aaron
Yeah, you can spend car rides listening to me talk about philosophy and it's true.

01:02:06.49
Seth Macey
We actually take a step back from all this on those. It's almost like, uh, let the opposite direction.

01:02:10.58
Aaron
We don't.

01:02:12.16
Seth Macey
So don't worry about being pontificate upon thoughts.

01:02:12.26
Aaron
Yeah. it's We're not gonna.

01:02:18.94
Aaron
ah It's very true. It's very true. We're just so blown away by the just, I think the entire atmosphere of those trips.

01:02:26.18
Seth Macey
Yeah, that's right.

01:02:29.35
Aaron
So.

01:02:29.56
Seth Macey
That's right. So be on the lookout for that January 13th till next time.

01:02:34.34
Aaron
Take care.

01:02:34.27
Seth Macey
Yeah.