How to "Futureproof" Yourself as a Creator and Become Indispensable

In this episode, we explore how creators can adapt and thrive in a rapidly changing world by learning to integrate new technology instead of resisting it. We examine the natural fear of change, breaking down why it happens and how to tackle it with an open, curious mindset. By "swimming with the whales," we uncover the value of observing successful creators—not to imitate, but to learn from their strategies and insights. We also challenge the idea of overly identifying with fixed labels or roles, emphasizing how letting go can lead to greater creative freedom. Finally, we discuss how to distinguish fleeting hype from innovations with true long-term impact, equipping you with the clarity to move forward with purpose and intention.

Expect to learn:

-How to integrate new technology rather than fight it
-the reasons why we are naturally averse to change
-why you should "swim with the whales" and observe what big creators are doing
-how to destroy your attachment to your identity
-how to tell when something is "overhyped" or has actual long term value

Sponsor:

Thanks to WhiteWall for being our lead sponsor this episode! They're the top choice for photographers who want high-quality prints, with a variety of material options, and who want their work delivered fast in 9 days or less!

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Thanks for listening!
Go get shooting, go get editing, and stay focused.

@sethmacey
@mantis_photography
@thephotographermindset

Transcript

01:45.93
Seth Macey
Oh yeah. I just posted a Fox photo. I don't know if you saw the back had that this like purple hue that probably 0% of people noticed, but I noticed now after I posted it, I was like, ah,

01:49.40
Aaron
I love that one.

01:59.26
Aaron
the after post.

01:59.56
Seth Macey
I don't like that. Yeah. The after post.

02:01.97
Aaron
Yeah.

02:02.34
Seth Macey
Oh no. Oh no.

02:05.16
Aaron
And you're like, is that just Instagram? Or is that? Oh, yep. Nope. That's there. Yep. Mm hmm. I did it that way.

02:12.26
Seth Macey
I've decided my captions are just going to be all deadpan now.

02:16.03
Aaron
I like that one. Hey, I'm Seth. I took this photo.

02:19.49
Seth Macey
Hi, I'm Seth. This is a Fox. I took a photo of it.

02:24.24
Aaron
Yeah.

02:24.68
Seth Macey
Maybe that's a, maybe that plays into my hand of just like not taking it seriously. Cause I did that, I did that bird reel. Remember a while ago where it's like, here's all the birds I've photographed. The noise is played at once.

02:34.89
Aaron
Yeah.

02:34.99
Seth Macey
Like that was nice. That was nice. I just liked the deadpan delivery. I'm not here to talk about myself all day though. This is the photographer mindset podcast. I'm half the co-hosting team here. Seth Macy figured we'd do a nice little intro of ourselves just cause it's the new year.

02:44.03
Aaron
I'm the other half, Aaron Maness.

02:50.85
Seth Macey
You know, there might be some new folks listening on in the podcast.

02:53.61
Aaron
You never know. You never know.

02:57.32
Seth Macey
So I'm Seth, that's Aaron. We blend mindset principles with photography so we can improve our craft, have a more enjoyable practice and help you build some metal forward tune resilience that you can continue as a creator and deal with the setbacks that comes with anything that you are pursuing, whether you're a beginner or advanced.

03:16.44
Aaron
Do you have that tattooed on your side rib?

03:18.51
Seth Macey
I should, it would hurt though. It'd be a lot of ribs.

03:21.83
Aaron
Yeah, no, you you recite that well. And I feel like almost verbatim at this point. You're good at it.

03:27.02
Seth Macey
Hmm. Interesting.

03:28.76
Aaron
Yeah.

03:29.26
Seth Macey
We'll have to have a montage clip. You text me today. You said let's have an episode on how to future proof our photography business. And I think we're going to take it a step further. How we can just future proof ourselves as creators make ourselves indispensable.

03:43.71
Seth Macey
Share some ideas today.

03:46.00
Aaron
I like it. ah Yeah, I've been thinking about this. I saw a post where this came from is I saw a post about the next gen of AI.

03:56.08
Aaron
And it was a photo of five, ah the same female in five different poses.

04:02.70
Seth Macey
I've seen that on Metaverse. I saw that.

04:04.46
Aaron
Yeah, and it was like, this is the next level. It's indistinguishable. And it's It's pretty crazy. ah The just transfer of a human into different environments, different positions, different poses, different facial expressions, ah just very human. Like i I don't think I would know. I really don't think I would know.

04:28.53
Seth Macey
Yeah, I hear you. I think the jury's still out though on whether, you know, my first thought now is so what does this like, how does this affect me?

04:40.91
Aaron
Well, I look at it like for product placement or anything where you're just sort of need a nondescript, cool environment, you can kind of create these these worlds that are very believable.

05:04.04
Seth Macey
Right. Do you think there will have to be a

05:11.18
Seth Macey
disclaimer that this is not a real person. I guess my question is, will you, will you and other people relate to an artificially generated model or product or will you feel duped? And if it's the second one, will it make sense to continue using real people with real cameras and real models in this example?

05:36.39
Aaron
Yeah, well, I think that kind of goes into the conversation a bit where it's in terms of art and having a reaction to a photo, a quote unquote photo or what we think is a photo. I guess it it just extends that line. So some people might say film photography is the only art. Some people might say you could do stuff in Lightroom.

06:00.19
Aaron
but not Photoshop. Some people will say, you can do stuff in Photoshop as long as it's not ah you know interfering with the integrity of the photo. People say, you can interfere with the integrity. It just wears the line, I think. And everyone has sort of a different place for that. But when you look at an image and it's spectacular, I think there will there there will be confusion in terms of the art.

06:25.73
Aaron
what people Let's say the layperson wants to hang in their living room. Like, why not get the perfect photo of the bald eagle with the ah the baby bald eagles with the the white heads versus an actual photo? You know, they might be duped by, well, that's not how actual scientists might be like, that's not how actual bald eagles look when they're young. But to someone that's like, that's pretty cool. What a great photo.

06:54.12
Aaron
Or there's that video of the bird covering its babies with its wing and in the rainstorm, which looks incredible, but it's not real. So I think it depends what your goal is for digesting the art. And then I'm not sure. I'm not sure if people will trust, believe, care. I don't know. They might just say like, what, what tastes the best. That's what I want. I don't care what the ingredients are.

07:23.92
Seth Macey
Perhaps I think also people are to an extent in in that example, I feel like people are connected. Oh, that's a real place. That's a real thing. That's a real moment in time. But you do get to a place where reality and non-reality will blend seamlessly.

07:42.21
Seth Macey
without get Whatever your stance on this is, I think today we're going to structure it in a way with maybe some numbered tips to stick with the title, which is you know strategies for photographers and creators to future-proof themselves.

07:56.65
Seth Macey
I think what you're talking about first and foremost, where regardless of what you think, and this doesn't necessarily have to pertain to AI, but to be adaptable and resilient, correct? Is that fair?

08:05.63
Aaron
Yeah, yes, absolutely.

08:08.18
Seth Macey
And then I guess the places we should go with this is what does that mean? A and B why are people so some people so a verse to those two things.

08:25.61
Aaron
Yeah, I think that's a good, good direction. Want me to want me to take it off?

08:30.72
Seth Macey
Hand you the ball.

08:32.37
Aaron
Go with it. Well, I think

08:33.31
Seth Macey
Sure.

08:35.06
Aaron
I think the number one thing that struck to mind and I was talking with new Mike neutrino about ah this briefly the other day as he sent

08:48.13
Aaron
Actually, I think that that video, or the photo I mentioned in the beginning, the the five women, the same women, sorry, same woman in the same position, or in different positions, jeez, five different positions, ah five different environments looked incredible. Every photo looked very realistic. And we were just talking about where where the future is in terms of the business of photography and what will be needed. And the one thing we came to, for sure, is things that will be needed will be representing true life, like you said.

09:21.19
Seth Macey
Yeah.

09:21.44
Aaron
yeah Capturing an event in a wedding event. So a photographer to capture a wedding event is not going to turn to AI to create the bride and groom, create the environment, create fake guests, whatever that may be.

09:34.90
Aaron
They're going to capture the event, a concert, ah a place, a building, architecture, food at a restaurant. However, AI pieces might be a part of that. And I think that goes into a further point that we'll get to about future-proofing yourself. But I do think capturing the essence of a true event is something that will always be needed. So I'll start there.

10:05.64
Seth Macey
Yeah, I agree. And the wedding example is perfect because you could easily. for your own portfolio prompts and get some really good looking wedding photographs, but it won't suffice because when the time comes to actually do somebody's wedding, you need to have the actual guests and people's faces, right?

10:28.16
Aaron
right Correct.

10:29.96
Seth Macey
So I hear what you're saying. I'm like, I'm, I'm, I think what we're talking about is

10:38.50
Seth Macey
somehow getting out of the, Oh my God, pressing the panic button, we're all doomed and and switching into a, how do I integrate this? This is where we're at right now, right? And I don't think there's a clear cut answer, but the question needs to be, I feel like sits in people's head is how, how can I integrate this into what I'm doing and not consistently feeling like you need to fight this. Can you imagine fighting the internet in the early 2000s and just like dying on that Hill?

11:10.01
Aaron
Right. Well, a lot of people did. Is it the the famous story of Walmart laughing at Jeff Bezos and Amazon, you know, and Walmart was much bigger at the time could have taken over the.

11:17.72
Seth Macey
Right.

11:24.24
Aaron
the shopping space online, but said, nah, people like to do it in person. That's not going to be a thing. so So right, I think there is a way to, first of all, understand this term AI and not just be like, oh, it's fake pictures. like there There's a huge spectrum of intelligence and algorithm learning and equational learning that helps us in many, many avenues of this business, of this passion to create some of the art that we do already. We are all probably using artificial intelligence in some sense, whether it's spot removal or masking ah

12:15.86
Aaron
having the computer enhance or discern any sort of aspect of your photo is, ah to me, a level of artificial intelligence.

12:29.71
Seth Macey
Yeah, absolutely. And I'll be interested. We're going to have, um, Eric Yang from Topaz labs on the show. That'll be exciting.

12:35.93
Aaron
Yeah, perfect.

12:37.09
Seth Macey
We're going to do a whole episode entirely on this.

12:37.28
Aaron
Yes.

12:39.55
Seth Macey
So make sure you subscribe to the show. If that's something that interests you, cause you'll get a notification about it. I think what you're talking about though, just going back to the, you know, how people fought the internet in the early two thousands, there's this, this isn't one of the reasons people fight changes.

12:52.88
Seth Macey
Cause there's this skepticism of hype where emerging trends are accompanied by maybe a ton of overhype. And it leads to tons of skepticism about the actual value or longevity of something, because so often things that are hyped just crater into nothingness.

13:14.14
Aaron
yeah that is true

13:16.61
Seth Macey
And we forget that that's not the case for all things.

13:20.33
Aaron
Right. hey Yes. for For some. What's the ah the quote like your family about every girlfriend you have 99% of the time will be right that it's not going to work out until the last one that does right.

13:34.11
Seth Macey
Right.

13:36.13
Aaron
So it's, it's that there's comfort in that as humans to be like, to be a critic to be like, no, that's that's overhyped.

13:36.18
Seth Macey
Right.

13:44.28
Aaron
That's not going to work out. That's That's lame, whatever it is, until it really does, and then you're kind of left behind. ah there's There's a lot of that.

13:55.09
Aaron
We see it in a lot of different ways. Go to this app. It's so much better. Go to this thing. It's so much more engagement. this is the like There's a lot of hype about a lot of different things on a daily basis.

14:04.76
Seth Macey
Right.

14:07.36
Aaron
a lot of its marketing, a lot of its ad placement, product placement, a lot of it is just trying to gather patrons, like whatever it may be. There's a lot of hype that we're kind of sifting through and being like,

14:22.66
Aaron
and that sounds too good to be true, or that is actually not accurate, or like whatever it may be, we are constantly weaving through hype. So when we get this other thing like, oh, AI is the future better hop on, crypto is the future better hop on, you you sort of like, look at it like just kind of with the squinted eye of, is it really though? Am I wasting my time? Like, what is the big deal? And, and just taking, I think, a slower jump into a lot of things, which I don't think is an awful tact this day and age, but I think the ability to

15:04.76
Aaron
adjust and pivot and learn new things and push yourself brings it into the next point of getting out of the comfort zone of I use Lightroom and then I do a little Photoshop and that's good enough. Like hey I think there is a push to, well, why don't I open up? What's Topaz have to offer? Let me see what that's about. Let me see what that can do to my images.

15:31.86
Aaron
What's Luminar 4 do? Oh, that's pretty cool.

15:33.75
Seth Macey
Yeah.

15:35.02
Aaron
ah That's a different sort of thing. That gives me a different look if I need it. What does Google Nix do? ah that's it Those are cool ah little algorithms or filters or or workshops that I can use on my photos.

15:49.38
Aaron
Just learning new things. Let me get into video. Let me understand Premiere. That sort of attitude and overall curiosity, I think, alone is future-proofing.

16:03.00
Seth Macey
Yeah, there's, there's so many things to to touch on there. I guess this is, this is one of the hardest questions and then I think it's nearly impossible to be 100% correct in this all the time, but it's identifying when something is overhyped versus having true value and it's accurately hyped. And I guess my question to you is, do you have any criteria backtesting this, of course, where the hype has been correct for you or wrong? Like, what are you looking for? And I i know, before you answer, I know for me, the antidote to all this stuff where you're saying like, oh, crypto is the future, or Vero is the future. The antidote to not knowing, or to at least how to figure it out a little bit better is to dive in to be curious and to research and to

16:51.90
Seth Macey
ah Get outside of that echo chamber listen to people who say this is total garbage it's never going to work listen to people who say this is the future there's nothing else and see what makes sense.

17:06.08
Aaron
Yeah, I think a lot of things come out of seemingly thin air and a lot of things have been here for a long time with a steady climb. There's a there's a skepticism within the timing of things.

17:20.03
Aaron
some Some things catch on super fast and just get out there and there's no back testing. I think there's a potential red flag there in terms of

17:28.13
Seth Macey
So you think speed has a potential.

17:33.41
Seth Macey
It's like when everybody was selling NFTs. Is that would that be fair?

17:35.69
Aaron
Yeah, that that was going to was going to be my example of everyone for a short period of time was boasting about, and I'll say boasting, boasting about this sale, this many ETH, this equation, which is, I just sold a photo for $4,000. I just so ah sold a digital art piece for $8,000, $10,000, whatever it may be as the influx of ETH, Ethereum kept going higher and higher in this moment.

18:11.78
Aaron
as things changed and the environment changed and people got stuck I think with as they say holding the bag as ethereum came back down to earth the hype sort of disappeared the concept behind it was like wait Are people really paying $100,000 for a little cartoon digital cartoon? Because it's the only one? i understand like it's It's hard to comprehend and understand like where is the actual value of what they're saying the value is, which is these pieces of digital artwork.

18:53.69
Aaron
And someone might be listening and be like, dude, you're totally missing it. And you're, but you you and I have always said it was more about the theorem and trading a theorem.

19:02.54
Seth Macey
It was a vessel to acquire cryptocurrency through art. It wasn't about acquiring the art. Otherwise you would have just paid with your credit card or cash.

19:09.28
Aaron
Right.

19:09.26
Seth Macey
That's my stance on it.

19:10.61
Aaron
Yeah. Yeah. So, so that's the case. I think, I think with friends in our, in our world or family members that say like, Hey, have you, have you tried celery juice, like just celery juice diet?

19:24.85
Aaron
It's unbelievable. My whole life has changed. And it's like, Okay, that's great. Like come back to me in six months. If you've done this for six months and you still feel healthy and good and you're feeling great, I might listen a little bit closer. But if this is your first week at a new diet or a new exercise or a new fad,

19:50.64
Aaron
I'm going to take it with ah just a grain of salt because you're hyped about it. You're excited about it, but there's no longevity behind it. There's no there's no testing behind it. you You love cold plunging.

20:04.88
Aaron
That's great. You've done it twice. Like, sell it to me when you've done it for an entire year and you are reaping the benefits and you feel like it's the best thing that's ever happened and there's there's no ill effects and it's only been positives.

20:11.61
Seth Macey
Right?

20:21.18
Aaron
Then I will listen. So, for example, cryptocurrency has been a long for... a long time and I am no expert on it and I'm not saying like that's not a big thing in my life but I do know that it's been talked about and on a steady sort of increase for a very long time and the philosophy behind most of the bigger coins I think is very interesting.

20:42.75
Seth Macey
I think that's another point you've touched on to help identify if something is overhyped or not is if you cannot avoid the conversation.

20:42.89
Aaron
so

20:50.42
Seth Macey
like If that conversation is happening in tons of different mediums on social, in your friend group, it's and you combine that with the duration effect we just described, I think you can maybe identify something that has long-term value and has an appropriate level of excitement.

21:06.76
Aaron
Yeah, and if we move it back 20 years, 30 years, where if you if you're a, everyone had a film camera, and at some point, it became, wow, there's digital cameras, but they were crap. They were crap to begin with, they were clunky, and people probably didn't switch over.

21:23.85
Aaron
But that conversation about digital cameras and the ease of uploading into your computer and having all your that did not go away. And it took a while for digital cameras to come up to snuff, I would say, to the quality that you could get out of film. I remember the conversations with my dad of like, you know, digital is cool, but it's just not as good as a real photo. And it was very true for a long time.

21:48.58
Seth Macey
Right.

21:49.51
Aaron
and eventually sometimes then it continues if it doesn't die out it doesn't go away it continues to a point where if you refuse this whole time to even have the conversation you are now obsolete not obsolete you might be you might yeah you're playing catch-up or you're so far gone that it's become cool again like vinyl records that you you kind of come back and you have your own little niche but you're gonna have to wait a very long time and you're gonna miss out on a ton of business and opportunities because there's a bunch of companies that are gonna be like

22:06.68
Seth Macey
You're playing catch up.

22:20.38
Seth Macey
Right.

22:22.35
Aaron
Wait, you're going to send these in film form. What we need to put them on our website. Like that's not going to work. Sorry. Like we're just going to go somewhere else. So.

22:31.72
Seth Macey
It's like your grandmother's house where if you wait long enough, it'll come back in style like linoleum flooring and.

22:34.75
Aaron
Yeah.

22:37.43
Aaron
yeah Yeah. ah Or like, like vinyl records are cool again.

22:42.12
Seth Macey
Yeah, yeah.

22:43.33
Aaron
You know, I think that's the.

22:46.07
Seth Macey
So basically, it's like you don't want to. Be so much of a cynic or skeptic that you are playing catch up to the thing that inevitably or eventually.

22:58.75
Seth Macey
Became a core technology. But you also don't want to be the person who, as an example, when Varro was exploding, hops on, because if I get an early, like, I'll grow my account quickly.

23:15.73
Seth Macey
I mean, I guess there's no, the the downside to that is very minimal, but the the concept makes sense.

23:19.31
Aaron
Yeah.

23:23.66
Seth Macey
i

23:23.84
Aaron
you Here's ah that example exactly. Back to my dad who had incredible vinyl records. Original Beatles really well taken care of.

23:34.43
Aaron
ah Rolling Stones, Doors, Original Pressings, Led Zeppelin, all

23:39.14
Seth Macey
Unopened.

23:40.33
Aaron
if some yeah i mean he was that he was a huge Beatles fan just had him now he had them as what they were music playing machines not as collectibles now when CDs came out he was so blown away by the technology I can skip songs. There's no scratching. There's no popping. There's no hissing. This sounds amazing. ah It's ah way less space. I don't have the clutter tossed quickly, tossed all of his vinyl records.

24:11.59
Seth Macey
Hmm.

24:12.61
Aaron
in like 1990 when CDs first came out basically and now they may never have come back have eight track tapes come back no have tapes really come back not really but for whatever reason I think the nostalgia of it, vinyl records have come back and someone, you know, did not see the value of the potential longevity of this nostalgic thing.

24:39.45
Aaron
No bling to anyone and you get rid of it.

24:39.59
Seth Macey
Yeah.

24:42.43
Aaron
You get rid of it super fast and jump on the bandwagon and you kind of miss out on some other things like CDs.

24:48.78
Seth Macey
That's almost like retroactive because I think it brings up a good point too, that your dad was able to identify the utility value of a CD.

24:58.12
Aaron
Right.

24:59.52
Seth Macey
Then it's another antidote.

24:59.64
Aaron
Which are no longer.

25:02.26
Seth Macey
What is the, how is this improving utility? And if it's not, maybe it's overhyped.

25:09.91
Aaron
Yeah.

25:10.69
Seth Macey
So I guess this is just one small subset under the category of how to be resilient and adaptable, which is a major contributing factor to future proofing yourself.

25:16.03
Aaron
It is.

25:20.31
Seth Macey
What I wanted to get into as well, just we don't get too bogged down into talking about skepticism and hype and over-hype is, so you mentioned, I think your example was, i like I do a little Lightroom, I do a little Photoshop and I feel like there's nothing wrong with that, but but One of the reasons I feel we fight change and resist is because there's so much comfort with routine. You know, established habits and routines provide a sense of stability and comfort and change disrupts these routines, which is very unsettling for some.

26:01.04
Seth Macey
Right. And it becomes the fear of the unknown. Oh, I don't know. Luminar AI. I don't know how to use topaz. You know, the change introduces uncertainty and naturally many people are ah apprehensive about what they don't understand or can't predict.

26:17.44
Aaron
And then one step further is creating a narrative that supports that fear, which is, I don't believe in people using Photoshop when the...

26:21.42
Seth Macey
Yeah. Running's bad for your knees.

26:27.65
Aaron
when It is though, right?

26:30.80
Seth Macey
I tell you it's a good way that now I don't have to run.

26:33.59
Aaron
Yeah, the impact is strong. It's not great for my back, Seth. I'm going to take it easy.

26:37.49
Seth Macey
Or you could just, I'm not dumping on people, I'm just making an example. Like carnivore diet, right? Like, oh, vegetables are not good for you. You go find the literature that that says carnivore diet.

26:48.56
Seth Macey
And hey, maybe you're someone listening to your own carnivore diet. I'm super happy for you if you feel great. I'm just making a point here. but Like maybe you just hate vegetables, right?

26:57.82
Aaron
Yeah, yeah.

26:57.80
Seth Macey
You know?

27:00.82
Seth Macey
It's just an interesting thing where like you can, you can, like you said, develop this limiting belief and then become. Go searching for the argument that says this is so.

27:10.36
Aaron
Yeah, yeah. Or the the narrative that fits it. So you don't have to do the uncomfortable work or the digging in. I remember the first time opening up Photoshop. That shit was confusing. It was.

27:25.04
Seth Macey
That's the other thing too. So like a technology like this, it's, you open something up like that and you feel totally overwhelmed and other people get it and you don't, you've, you, it's a perceived threat to your, your level of competence, right? New trends, digital photography require learning new skills or adapting to new ways of doing things, which can make you certain people feel very insecure about their abilities.

27:53.11
Seth Macey
Which doesn't feel good and then it's just better to avoid Or to dump on Yeah

27:57.40
Aaron
Right.

28:02.70
Aaron
Correct. And again, that's okay. But we're talking about being future proven. It's the same with you know, the the trend of video versus photos now in social media is very apparent. We've talked about that a lot. You to get attention, seemingly, you have to put yourself out there in a certain way. And that's okay. If you're comfortable doing that, and if you're not comfortable doing that,

28:34.18
Aaron
that's okay also and if you want to just keep doing photos that's okay also but I guess like you know don't hate the player hate the game like it's that's the way it is that's the way it is and you may get past

28:42.58
Seth Macey
Yeah.

28:49.09
Aaron
for someone that has the capabilities and the practice and the portfolio of I can make compelling reels. I can make compelling video. I'm capable. I've dove into it. That's what you want. Cool. You're going to hire me. You're not looking for stills. Okay.

29:12.03
Aaron
You know so it and you can you can die on that you can die on that hill you can say I'm just photography That's what I want to do. That's what I enjoy great awesome awesome ah you know, no, nothing, nothing but the best wishes for you and your passion and your pursuit. And I hope it all works out. I just think for if you're trying to stay with the trends and ride the wave, there's certain things you ah should take a look at and push yourself to potentially do. If you don't want to, then don't. But we're talking about

29:49.60
Seth Macey
Yeah.

29:50.04
Aaron
Going into the future, the rise of AI, the rise of the ability to create compelling images, the ability for artists to workshop their own photos and make them into exactly what they want is right on the doorstep. So having the ability to compete with that is important.

30:14.80
Seth Macey
Yeah, and I think we're talking about future-proofing ourselves. I think it is important to look at the counter of that, which we've been doing for the last 30 minutes, which is why

30:26.58
Aaron
Mm hmm.

30:27.65
Seth Macey
We're aversive to change. Like that's useful to look at as we move forward and do what you say, which is ride, ride the wave or don't swim against the tide. Right. And what you just described is staying proactive in positioning yourself as a versatile problem solver who's on top of industry movements and can deliver value regardless of circumstances. You're essentially, this is essentially the way a way to make yourself all weather.

30:58.33
Seth Macey
and all weather creator, which leads into, so I guess point number one for future-proofing ourselves is being resilient and adaptable.

30:59.61
Aaron
Yeah, that's good and so good. That's a good analogy.

31:09.53
Seth Macey
And with all that that's been said, I guess to put a bow on it is accepting that things will always change. Industries will always move in directions that you can't anticipate. And you have to maintain a flexible mindset to ride out those challenges and uncertainties in, especially in our industry, which is moving so fast with technology.

31:28.99
Seth Macey
But to your point about riding the wave or swimming with the tide is also swim with the whales would be my next point and how to future proof yourself.

31:41.45
Seth Macey
And what I mean by that is what are the really big in our instance, in our industry creators, what are they doing? Observe, be a little fish that swims with the big humpback whales.

31:55.19
Seth Macey
Surround yourself with those people.

31:55.26
Aaron
Yeah.

31:58.14
Seth Macey
Strive to continuously learn from them. Find a way to be around the whales and swim with them.

32:04.83
Aaron
Yeah, that's a that's a really nice point is you Be aware. Look around. See what's happening. See what the big creators are doing. See what the big names are doing. what they're Where they're putting their percents. Is it in video? Is it in photography? Is it in storytelling? Is it in writing? Where is it? I think no matter what you are doing, as long as you are um

32:40.28
Aaron
doing it to the best of your ability, you can create a niche in some sort of way, no matter what it is. Even if you decide, you know what, film camera, I've stuck with that since 1997, and now it's coming in vogue a little bit. and I'm going to really market myself as someone that understands film and developing film. I'm going to do some high-end film stuff and darkroom editing for

33:12.38
Aaron
Uh, the elite of New York City, whatever it may be, whatever your niche is, you can double down on whatever your beliefs are, whatever your passion is.

33:16.18
Seth Macey
Mm hmm.

33:23.97
Aaron
And I think do okay in, in some avenue. I think for most of us though, Uh, most of us that are listening, most of us that are on this platform, being Instagram, most of us that are. Stipping our toes into creation, maybe getting paid for a few gigs, maybe interested in getting paid in the future for a few things. Is it the time to be stubborn or is it the time to look around and learn and keep on moving? I think that's kind of the main question.

34:00.11
Seth Macey
Where do you like to look?

34:05.20
Aaron
I think there's there's a few names out there that I'm very interested in. Ones that are have developed their following at this point and I don't think have to, they can kind of beat at their own drum. They can do whatever they want to do and it's going to get eyes on now to me it looks great i don't know if to them they're like well this isn't getting as much engagement and as it used to i'm not sure if they're having the same problems i'm not looking that deeply into their analytics uh but overall i appreciate what they do i do appreciate artists in general that you can tell and we talked about this last week you can you can get a sense of

34:56.98
Aaron
Okay, this is genuine. Even if they're learning or trying something new, it's very genuine and there's a lot of hard work that goes into it. it's It's not for a quick like. It's not for a quick follow. It just feels like very genuine. Ian's someone that we found on the show a lot. We all know Ian. We were talking about that how much content he creates. And when you look at his stuff, you can see, even though he's creating an incredible clip that is well beyond me,

35:30.67
Aaron
everything he does has like this sense of pride to it and coming from truly him.

35:38.46
Seth Macey
Mm hmm.

35:39.08
Aaron
I think I mean that's that's the that's the feel I get when watching it and there's certain things it might be once a week or once a month they post but it's like oh this was a this was an amazing shot or an amazing story behind it or they took some time to truly write about their experience.

35:58.21
Aaron
I ah feel like that's that speaks to me more than anything else. I do like when people push their own boundaries. I do like when I see someone taking a chance, someone trying something different, even if it's one time. To me, it's like,

36:17.32
Seth Macey
What's admirable about that to you? Is it the courage? Is it the the the the willingness to be a black sheep?

36:21.89
Aaron
yeah, I think

36:25.23
Aaron
I think it's the willingness to seriously bomb. I think it's the willingness to F up. I think it's the willingness to go a different direction. I think it's the willingness to try something without worrying about this might not do well or You know, that, that sentence, this, this probably won't do well.

36:49.74
Aaron
I'm gonna post it anyway. I think that should be the follow, follow up sentence. Like for most things, if you took the time to take them from fruition, we talked about the idea graveyard.

37:01.77
Seth Macey
Mhm.

37:01.84
Aaron
Now some ideas belong in the graveyard, in my opinion, know like it's just, Their ideas are fine, but not all of them are great. Not all of them need to be brought to fruition. But if you have an idea that you're really jazzed about, and you do it, and you know, this might not go so well. You should still, I feel like you should still do it because you're happy about it.

37:25.67
Seth Macey
Mhm.

37:26.67
Aaron
You know, if you have a reel that goes a minute, but you feel like I can't cut it down any shorter.

37:26.81
Seth Macey
Mhm.

37:32.34
Aaron
It's a minute. It tells the story. I want to tell this story. It's probably not going to do well. It doesn't matter. Like put that out there for your portfolio, for your work, for your reference.

37:45.37
Aaron
the The customers last. Forget the social media customer landscape. Like, who are these people? Like, if you're into it, put it out there. Take a chance. That's that's admirable to me.

37:59.83
Seth Macey
Yeah. And I think those back to our piece of advice swim with the whales. I think these are the concepts you pick up on. It's like, okay, well, how are you can identify how they're doing in a nuanced way, exactly what you just described. Right. Cause there's so many different formats you can execute to be unique, even if ideas aren't necessarily original, the method of delivery. There's so much variance in how you present that, which I think is,

38:28.70
Seth Macey
what to look for.

38:32.42
Aaron
Yeah, and I think again, showing whomever you're showing the world and audience followers, business partners, clients that you have range, I don't think is a bad thing.

38:48.95
Aaron
I think some some Slater talked about this. Oh, God, I got so stuck in like, I'm just the whale guy.

38:55.54
Seth Macey
And the whale guy, you know, and I found him today.

38:57.73
Aaron
And

38:58.38
Seth Macey
Actually, it's, he phoned me on, he phoned me today and he's in Yellowstone filming her minds and coyotes and moose. And I've never seen him like happier.

39:06.12
Aaron
Yeah. And, and, and I hope he shows that stuff and I think he will.

39:10.32
Seth Macey
Oh, he hasn't been posting for a long time.

39:10.96
Aaron
I mean, it's.

39:13.11
Seth Macey
Then all of a sudden he he's posting tons of stuff from Yellowstone.

39:16.28
Aaron
Yeah. So.

39:16.54
Seth Macey
He knows that he's whale guy and it's going to do probably crap, but I, you know, he has a smile on his face doing it. I've talked to him and I know him well.

39:23.34
Aaron
Right.

39:24.29
Seth Macey
And sometimes it's just like, man, my, ah my, you know, my, my reel of a humpback lunging, eating anchovies, you know, we'll go viral. I know this.

39:34.90
Seth Macey
I know it'll get a million plays, but I'm just not fulfilled by that anymore. I'm tired of being wheel guy.

39:39.46
Aaron
Yeah. Yeah. So I think we can get stuck into what works, what we know works. Full circle back to, we know what Lightroom sliders do, but I don't know.

39:51.47
Aaron
Maybe if I bring this in the Photoshop, I could, I could find something new or change the color scheme or whatever it is.

39:52.92
Seth Macey
Yeah.

39:58.05
Aaron
Take a new photo of something, uh, present something new, try a video, try talking to camera.

40:03.23
Seth Macey
Different subject. So like your example was Slater, right?

40:05.89
Aaron
Yeah, so I think trying stuff and in showing that you have range I think does future proof you in the sense of

40:16.18
Seth Macey
Clarify what you mean by range for people.

40:19.27
Aaron
If you think of range in terms of a singing voice, you might have a beautiful voice, but you can only sing a four note range.

40:27.07
Seth Macey
Mm.

40:27.37
Aaron
That's gonna be tough. It's gonna be tough to be a songwriter. It's gonna be tough to ah do covers of songs. You have a very limited range. If you're Mariah Carey and you have a eight octave range, you can pretty much do anything.

40:42.22
Aaron
So I think as a photographer, quote unquote, if let's call it a creator, If you're, I'm going to use Slater as an example. Slater, buddy. Sorry. If I go to Slater's, I land on a real hits me that it's a whale. and Cool. Cool video. Good quality. Awesome. Slow motion. See what else this guy can do.

41:06.01
Aaron
Uh, it's all whales. All right. Well, I had this thing in Yellowstone. I wanted, uh, I wanted some hiking photos might might not be my guy hiking video might not be my guy. I move on.

41:16.13
Seth Macey
And.

41:16.79
Aaron
I think showing range is showing all that you can do to an extent. Now he might be whale guy. That might be his bread and butter. But there's a way to mix in video of coyote and moose and other things which might make the die-hard whale followers frown.

41:38.73
Aaron
But it might also invite in people that are like, oh wow, like this guy is great with wildlife and nature. Follow.

41:47.84
Seth Macey
Fair.

41:49.23
Aaron
You know? um Clearly he's good with whales. Clearly he's good with other things. Cool. I'm not whale guy. Whales are cool, but I don't think I'm a whale guy like slaters.

42:02.17
Seth Macey
I am definitely not.

42:03.86
Aaron
Yeah.

42:04.16
Seth Macey
There's footage of me somewhere stumbling like a dog in a car on his boat.

42:08.59
Aaron
I don't even mean being one. I mean, like interest wise, like I like Slater as a person and I like his work.

42:10.55
Seth Macey
Yeah, yeah. for Fair enough.

42:15.64
Aaron
I don't know if I'm in his buddy, Adam. Uh, I follow them, but.

42:21.46
Seth Macey
We're talking about Slatormore and that was Adam Ernst. Are you referring referring to just for people?

42:24.05
Aaron
Yeah. And I'm not following whales of the day, Instagram things like that's just, that's not my thing.

42:29.22
Seth Macey
Right.

42:32.49
Aaron
Sorry, whales. I love whales. Just not my thing. Uh, but those guys are great. Would I love to see other things from them? Sure. Yeah, absolutely.

42:42.52
Seth Macey
Yeah, I guess the argument is I can just go to a feature page of whales if I truly only care about whales.

42:48.49
Aaron
Yeah, I care i care about the person that's producing the art, I think, too, and the art.

42:53.03
Seth Macey
Right.

42:54.55
Aaron
I think that does matter.

42:57.03
Seth Macey
It's funny. We're talking about whales and the argument was swim with the whales. Nice.

43:01.20
Aaron
Exactly.

43:01.31
Seth Macey
Do you know on purpose?

43:01.68
Aaron
That's that how we got here. So.

43:05.95
Seth Macey
Uh, you know, next point I think to help future proof yourself. And this is one I've, I think we've talked about a lot mobile say it again is kill your identity. This, I am a photographer. Get rid of it.

43:21.35
Seth Macey
I think you can become overly attached to identities and when they're taken from you or aren't going well, they rip your world apart.

43:28.59
Aaron
yeah

43:30.56
Seth Macey
You know, I'm, I like the idea of I'm a photographer and, and, and I can do that. Even if I can't, I'll learn. Like I wonder how many opportunities people miss because they're almost too honest when asked if they can do something. They're like, Oh, with my current skill set,

43:49.19
Seth Macey
No, I can't. So no, I can't do this for you as opposed to I can't right now.

43:56.62
Aaron
Yeah.

43:57.12
Seth Macey
By the time the project comes, I could see myself putting in the work to be able to confidently do this project. So I'm going to say yes.

44:03.52
Aaron
Right. Right. Yeah, I think there's, there's a balance there. A friend today asked if I would be willing to do a wedding for one of their friends. And I said very honestly, in my head, I've always kind of had this interest of like, I would like to do one wedding.

44:21.94
Aaron
I feel like it would kind of be fun to do one wedding.

44:22.73
Seth Macey
Right.

44:24.97
Aaron
Maybe not all the time and maybe not a super formal wedding where there's like, a list of expectations that you need to hit but a chill wedding with chill people and a chill environment I feel like would be fun to capture and I was very clear with hey I've never done this I feel like I could do it but I do have limitations in terms of where my comfort zone well beyond my comfort zone but where I feel like

44:39.87
Seth Macey
Yeah, fair.

44:52.25
Aaron
Watch your depth. Don't sign up for a a hundred thousand dollar wedding where ah you need to nail all the classic shots and know exactly how to deliver.

45:05.13
Aaron
Like that's going to be beyond your your pay grade.

45:07.09
Seth Macey
Right. You want to fail on your own terms if it's potentially likely.

45:09.62
Aaron
Yeah. Yeah.

45:11.48
Seth Macey
Yeah, I hear you.

45:11.70
Aaron
Yeah. yeah So.

45:13.75
Seth Macey
What's interesting to me about this is that we've just talked about, okay, if opportunity comes around and you don't know how to do it, try and say yes. I think the caveat here is if you just absolutely are not interested at all, don't say yes just because opportunity is presented.

45:25.58
Aaron
Right. Yeah.

45:28.73
Seth Macey
I think that's a ah you know a fair caveat.

45:31.48
Aaron
yeah

45:31.57
Seth Macey
Whereas if you feel like you don't have the level of expertise fully to do a wedding and someone comes and asks you, but you have a little bit of an interest, a little bit of the wedding bug, then it makes sense to be like, yeah, I can do that.

45:41.93
Aaron
Yeah.

45:44.49
Aaron
yeah you Do you want to be able to say yes?

45:48.76
Seth Macey
Yes.

45:49.69
Aaron
Right.

45:49.69
Seth Macey
Right. Do you want to be able to say yes, but you feel like you can't?

45:54.14
Aaron
Right. Oh, I wish I studied that, you know, but I can't.

45:57.39
Seth Macey
Yeah. But sometimes it's tough to prepare for the test you don't know is coming, which is why sometimes I feel like if you just got to say, yes, yeah I can do that. Yeah, I can fly a drum.

46:08.15
Aaron
yeah

46:09.14
Seth Macey
I mean, don't be reckless.

46:13.01
Aaron
Right. Check your licensing and your FAA laws as well.

46:13.66
Seth Macey
So, yeah, I mean.

46:16.45
Seth Macey
Yeah. So, I mean, killing your identity. I am a photographer. Like, that's who I am. My whole identity is wrapped up in that. For if if there's ever a reason you can't be one, or you you you build this narrative that that's what I do, I feel like it can close off doors to other things.

46:30.73
Seth Macey
I mean, be an SEO expert. Be a designer. I've been doing design work for a rich at box and one is, you know, I love doing design. I love designing stuff.

46:39.27
Aaron
Yeah.

46:40.16
Seth Macey
Like, I don't want to, I personally don't want to just be, oh, that's Seth. He's a photographer. It's like, oh, that's Seth. Like, he creates stuff.

46:47.02
Aaron
Yeah.

46:47.96
Seth Macey
You know, because that's such a ah bigger basket to be able to, uh, provide value. Oh, he can write copy. Oh, he writes. Well, you know, I just got some opportunities today.

46:59.58
Seth Macey
Um, in the future, it looks like Tamron's me doing blog stuff and they asked me if I want to participate.

47:03.32
Aaron
Yeah.

47:04.80
Seth Macey
So I was like, hell yeah. I love writing. I love writing about stuff. I love podcasting, talking with you and other people like being more than just one thing. I think it also makes it much more.

47:13.72
Aaron
Yeah.

47:18.10
Seth Macey
well-rounded persona and you can take breaks from those things when they become too much and focus on other things should you need to.

47:26.05
Aaron
Yeah, make yourself a firm, ah a marketing firm, a creating firm.

47:29.40
Seth Macey
Right.

47:32.27
Aaron
Have all the pieces either able to do on your own or you know someone that can do it. That way, nothing should be a no.

47:44.97
Aaron
It could all run through you. Someone wants, I mean, box and one, your example is, uh, uh, an acquaintance from my high school and through me.

47:56.71
Aaron
And he asked about websiteing and I website design and I said, well, I can't, but Seth can. So, but I will, you had more experience.

48:02.66
Seth Macey
And I couldn't I've never designed a website

48:06.83
Seth Macey
Other than like Squarespace and stuff like that, like I had never done Figma design work, typography, color branding in a formal way.

48:08.83
Aaron
Yeah. Yeah, right.

48:14.85
Aaron
Yeah.

48:16.41
Seth Macey
So that was an example where I was like, I know I'm capable, but I don't have the resume.

48:23.03
Aaron
Right. And that was an example where I don't have enough time, but I've got a team. I've got a firm through through my own umbrella of like, yeah, I got you covered rich.

48:28.77
Seth Macey
Right. Yeah.

48:36.17
Aaron
I got a guy.

48:37.92
Seth Macey
And that's value in itself. Like you're brokering connections, which I think is also a valuable skill.

48:42.25
Aaron
Right.

48:45.10
Seth Macey
If you can be the broker, we talk about network networking a lot. If you can broker connections, you're known as that person. Like, Hey, that guy or that girl is really good at bringing two people who would gel well together and projects come from those things.

48:59.15
Aaron
Yeah. Exactly.

49:02.53
Seth Macey
Like that's a skill brokering, brokering relationships.

49:06.62
Aaron
Yeah.

49:10.07
Aaron
Future proof.

49:11.42
Seth Macey
Right.

49:12.53
Aaron
Yeah. I don't know.

49:14.91
Seth Macey
That's really all I had.

49:15.06
Aaron
i Me too.

49:16.32
Seth Macey
The last one I had is invest in yourself, but that's so broad.

49:19.60
Aaron
That could be a whole episode.

49:21.95
Seth Macey
All right.

49:22.38
Aaron
How do you, how do you invest in yourself? Where's good, good avenues of investing?

49:26.82
Seth Macey
Yeah, as of the talk, yeah, that's a future episode.

49:27.59
Aaron
That's a,

49:29.72
Seth Macey
I'm reading that in my notes and there's no way we can cover that and be under two hours today.

49:33.39
Aaron
No. ah Yeah, no.

49:35.69
Seth Macey
Some people are like, do it, do it, but I'd rather us create another episode out of it.

49:39.79
Aaron
You'll have to continue and follow.

49:42.75
Seth Macey
Yeah, I am really excited to have Eric from Topaz on, um, cause I think he'll have some really good insight about now.

49:42.90
Aaron
and

49:50.72
Seth Macey
Obviously he's the CEO of Topaz labs and they sell digital products of course, but I'll be interested to hear his take on how he sees the future and the level of integration that is likely or unlikely.

50:00.90
Aaron
Yeah.

50:06.50
Aaron
Yeah, I'm very interested to see, do they have boundaries in terms of like how far they want to take things or what's okay?

50:10.60
Seth Macey
Yeah.

50:14.50
Aaron
Cause it's, it's, it's moving scale depending on who you are and which angle you're looking at.

50:14.77
Seth Macey
Yeah.

50:19.72
Seth Macey
Yeah, that'll be a good one.

50:21.34
Aaron
Yeah.

50:21.59
Seth Macey
Very good one. So yeah, subscribe to the show. If you, if you want to get notified when that comes or if you want to know when other guests are going to be on, I think we have a good lineup this month into February.

50:30.82
Aaron
We do.

50:31.81
Seth Macey
You know, we're still going to do some episodes of the UNI, but I'm excited to get some guests back on. And, uh, as always, if you enjoy these shows, leave a rating review on Spotify, not the podcast costs, free, effective way to support Aaron and I are always appreciative of that.

50:46.44
Seth Macey
And, uh, as always, it's good talking with you, man.

50:48.83
Aaron
Yay, you too.

50:48.94
Seth Macey
Until next time.

50:49.76
Aaron
Thank you. Bye.