Eric Paré & Kim Henry: Photography as a Performance, Light Painting, & Staying Playful

In this episode, we talk with Canadians Eric Paré (@ericparephoto) and Kim Henry (@kimhenry.dance), a creative duo known for blending art, movement, and technology in mesmerizing ways. Their work redefines photography as a performance, combining Eric’s mastery of light painting and innovative bullet time techniques with Kim’s expertise in contemporary dance and intentional movement. Together, they create stunning visual stories that push the boundaries of what’s possible, inspiring artists of all kinds to experiment, play, and bring their unique visions to life.

Expect to learn:

- The value of experimenting even when a formula is already providing success
- Why we should move our bodies deliberately and develop interoception
- How light painting merges photography and performance
- Why staying playful is key to long-term creative success.
- Interesting details about the work they do in their 400 camera 360 degree studio

Eric's Links: ericpare.com/links
Kim’s Links: kimhenry.dance

Sponsor:

Thanks to Tamron for being our lead sponsor this episode! Explore the 35-150mm f/2.0-2.8 G2 lens with $200 USD & $300 CAD off and deals on many more lenses for your Sony E-mount, Nikon Z, and FUJIFILM X-mount mirrorless cameras by clicking www.tamron-americas.com or by visiting your local Tamron authorized dealer.

Our Links:

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Thanks for listening!
Go get shooting, go get editing, and stay focused.

@sethmacey
@mantis_photography

Transcript

INTERVIEW:

01:17.02
Seth Macey
So how did you two meet? And thanks for joining us today. I really appreciate it. We're excited to have you on the show. Uh, it's not often we get to have pairs where there's four of us in total on the podcast.

01:22.15
Kim & Eric
Thanks.

01:27.01
Seth Macey
So this is.

01:27.46
Kim & Eric
Yeah, I know it's going to screw your composition, right?

01:30.80
Aaron
Yeah, a new ah new challenge. A new challenge.

01:33.13
Seth Macey
new video challenge, but see how we did.

01:34.55
Aaron
Yeah.

01:35.95
Seth Macey
Go check it out on YouTube. If you're not on YouTube right now and you're listening in your car or something, go see how we did. It was actually Eric's idea, the formatting for the video. So it's going to work out well. It's going to work out really great, but thank you guys so, so much for joining us from Montreal.

01:49.00
Seth Macey
It's always nice to have fellow Canadians on the show. Aaron Ziad went out for today. How did you two meet?

01:55.77
Kim & Eric
You go first. Oh, okay. So, um, that goes probably 2013,

02:06.43
Kim & Eric
yeah I think. So Eric used to be a programmer in another life and he was, um, doing, I'll let him explain that part, but he was, he was doing, uh, his first personal, uh, multi-camera project, uh, with.

02:11.66
Seth Macey
Okay.

02:24.87
Kim & Eric
32 cameras, 24 cameras back then. And so it was light painting, stop motion. So he needed dancers. He was looking to collaborate with dancers from the Montreal community.

02:45.22
Kim & Eric
And he basically ah found my profile on the Dance Association of Quebec. So we didn't we didn't know each other, but I was like ah ah was newly graduated from dance school back then.

02:56.05
Seth Macey
Okay.

03:04.56
Kim & Eric
And he just sent me a DM and Instagram. and so Instagram. Was it? I don't know. i don't know No, i was no thirteen i was I was not on Instagram. Sorry about that. Email and that kind is probably. not maybe be So so she she she was not ah known at all, but I was working with ah very well known dancers on that project.

03:26.28
Kim & Eric
And she she came up, we worked together for just one hour and she changed the the whole project because she was so good, she was so precise, so still because we're doing long exposure and the subject has to stay still and and we require a lot of precision. And she had it like crazy. She became the face of the project and the reference for every ah other dancers that I've been working with since then. And then of course I wanted to work more with her.

03:56.99
Kim & Eric
And then we go 12 years later, still doing things. Yeah. ah So we we very fast, we we found that we had very similar interests and complementary skills and, well, yeah, skills.

04:13.92
Kim & Eric
um So we we started collaborating and and we never stopped and we've been pushing each other ever since.

04:16.72
Aaron
Mm hmm.

04:22.23
Kim & Eric
So that's a short story.

04:25.13
Seth Macey
No, it's excellent. It's, it's, uh, it's amazing to hear that.

04:26.84
Aaron
Yeah.

04:29.59
Seth Macey
It's, it's interesting that Eric, you were working with, was your first multicam project, 24 cameras. That sounds overwhelming.

04:37.92
Aaron
Yeah.

04:37.97
Kim & Eric
yeah well

04:39.35
Seth Macey
And now you have a 400 camera studio.

04:39.54
Kim & Eric
now now it's not because

04:43.48
Kim & Eric
24 was very hard back in the days because there there was no software at all to manage these things. There was no instruction. We had to just hope that it would work. but ah So that project that Kim was talking about was my first personal project. but ah Prior to that, ah this is what I was doing, coding a multi-camera stuff for ah for live events, working with brands, so it was more commercial work. It was very fun, but the day we had time to slow down, I really wanted to make something artistic with it because

05:23.95
Kim & Eric
there so There are so many things you can do with 3D light painting like like this.

05:29.67
Seth Macey
Yeah.

05:30.38
Kim & Eric
and And when I really started to do my my things, that changed my life. And I knew that by publishing something,

05:41.17
Kim & Eric
high quality I would get seen by brands or agencies and then I would get work related to what I was doing and that was a good plan because it worked this is still how agencies see me they

05:55.16
Aaron
Mm hmm.

06:00.68
Seth Macey
Right.

06:01.27
Kim & Eric
They see me on social media, on various publications, and they they hire me for for what I do. So that's that's been my my way of getting business for but that long.

06:13.14
Seth Macey
Yeah, I'm wondering where the the best point to start, Eric, with your journey, Kim, like we definitely want to get into dance and movement and moving our bodies with intention as the episode goes on. ah But first, I was looking at the you know, the studio's website. And when I reached out to you, you know, the 3D photography and the models and dancers suspended in air with hundreds of cameras taking shots all at once. And I'm just I feel like I'm looking at an alien world that I'm unfamiliar with of creative of like creation. Where do you think would be the best place to start to give people who are unfamiliar with what you do in that studio a kind of an idea?

07:01.49
Seth Macey
Like you mentioned three dimensional photography.

07:01.97
Kim & Eric
Hmm.

07:04.31
Seth Macey
What is that?

07:06.29
Kim & Eric
Yeah, so technically it's not 3D. It looks like 3D because you see all around the subject, but it's just all of the images that are lined up one after the other.

07:11.40
Seth Macey
Mm hmm.

07:19.93
Kim & Eric
So it would be just as if you would have just one camera that moves around your subject and you take 176 frames, and you combine that into movie.

07:31.88
Kim & Eric
But the idea of having that many cameras, so it's currently 176 on a full 360, the idea is that you can really take a long exposure from each angle at the same time, or with a delay, and then you add some movement.

07:44.50
Kim & Eric
So it's very interesting everything we can do with this, but it's kind of hard to describe with words.

07:50.64
Seth Macey
Yeah.

07:51.10
Kim & Eric
Do you have a better idea how to describe that, Kim?

07:57.06
Kim & Eric
Yeah.

07:57.38
Seth Macey
Well, the best way obviously is for people to go look at your website and your content, which they can click in the episode description. It's, it's incredible stuff. And it is really something that you, you can try your best to describe with words, but you do need to see it.

08:10.73
Kim & Eric
Well, if you're but you guys at home are wondering, oh, is it the guy I saw on TikTok? Yes, that's it.

08:15.57
Seth Macey
Yes, this is this is him. I guarantee people listening have seen this on their explore page, whether it's TikTok or Instagram, where there's hundreds of cameras set up and crazy things going on.

08:27.20
Kim & Eric
Yeah, so so we do different things that are, I find, comfortable complementary because we have this studio, as you said, like with ah many cameras doing multi-camera long exposures, especially. But we also do outdoor light painting with only one or two, three cameras.

08:50.48
Kim & Eric
ah So in both and both contexts, it's it's still with handcrafted light ah with long exposure. So that's one of the one of the link, I would say, between between these things. Either it's with one or 176 camera, there there is a play with time and and perception.

09:14.36
Kim & Eric
um because having also 176 cameras, it gives Eric the the possibility to actually see the same exact trace of light, but from all these different angles.

09:34.17
Kim & Eric
So yeah, I don't know. yeah I don't know if is that helps.

09:36.01
Seth Macey
that's yeah That's helpful. It's very helpful. it's um My head instantly goes to file management. like

09:46.24
Kim & Eric
it's a nightmare

09:47.33
Seth Macey
Is it a nightmare or have you got it streamlined at this point?

09:51.19
Kim & Eric
Yeah, it's not as bad as it looks because we we're not taking out SD cards one camera at a time. okay that We never had to do that.

10:01.99
Aaron
Mm hmm.

10:03.41
Kim & Eric
We program everything so we don't have to do that. So when I press the button and the when the picture is completed, so after like an eight second exposure, all of the files are automatically getting transferred to some Raspberry Pi's.

10:19.75
Kim & Eric
and then to a main computer. Because you don't want to have 200 cameras connected in USB to a single computer, that would be a big mess.

10:27.01
Aaron
Mm hmm.

10:29.40
Kim & Eric
So we offload everything to Raspberry Pis and then we transfer everything by Ethernet. So we just have to wait a couple of seconds and then we can see the end result fully calibrated.

10:41.06
Kim & Eric
and know if the exposure is OK. And this is how we can roll. So during a session, most of the time, it's just going to be Kim and I, no technician. So the technician is going to be there prior to the shooting, so they can calibrate the camera, make the focus everywhere. But once everything is ready, it's just Kim and I. And we just have a wireless remote, which is actually a PowerPoint presenter. I have it on my finger. Press the button. Take a new picture. on the on all cameras, and then all the files are transferred to the main computer.

11:14.45
Kim & Eric
We get the preview. And once the session is done, ah we're talking about a lot of data, but I'll just transfer that to the main NAS, which is 180 terabytes, I think.

11:27.62
Seth Macey
Wow.

11:28.97
Kim & Eric
Yeah, that's a lot of data, but that's that's our life. We we we manage multi-camera studios and

11:34.38
Aaron
yeah

11:35.57
Seth Macey
It's

11:38.04
Kim & Eric
Yeah, that's part of the deal. And and then if I if i continue um on the other leg of this, let's say triangle from the 360

11:39.87
Seth Macey
incredible.

11:51.11
Kim & Eric
um From the 360 rig, then what you might have seen is the 3D capture. um So the same software allows us to control the cameras to actually do full body 3D capture. And it's it's fairly new in our artistic process that we actually use it with artistic intention. um So yeah, so that's that's pretty new in our journey.

12:21.11
Kim & Eric
Yeah, what you can see on the studio website that is xanglestudio.com is one part that is about time. So this is more like the matrix where we're taking pictures from an area of camera that is all on the same

12:35.66
Seth Macey
This is bullet point.

12:36.94
Kim & Eric
What a time.

12:37.94
Seth Macey
Bullet time.

12:38.70
Kim & Eric
What a time. And ah the next studio is 3D scan. And we've been doing that for a long time to scan actors for games and movies. But since for for the past year, we've been working in that for our artistic journey to ah which is kind of new. ah I didn't have any interest for that, but the more I was looking at the possibilities and the more I thought like, yeah, that there must be something we we can do with that too. And with the team getting bigger, we had the

13:11.13
Kim & Eric
the right people here to help us to bring that to life. Because when we do bullet time, like the 360 thing, the end result is what you see. It's like we take the picture and there's not a lot of post processing, but in 3D, it's another story.

13:27.65
Kim & Eric
It's a lot of work because you you you create your 3D environment, you create your lights.

13:29.82
Seth Macey
Right.

13:33.09
Kim & Eric
Everything is made in post. So the the pictures by themselves are not interesting at all. It's really about what you do with that. using 3D software like Blender, Unreal Engine or other things like this.

13:46.88
Seth Macey
How much of this are you two pioneering and kind of inventing or innovating? Or are there a lot of other other studios doing this or other people you've learned from along the way?

14:03.34
Kim & Eric
Well, we were not the first to do multi-camera work for sure, but we clearly do it more because we produce artworks for ourselves, where most of our clients, so our clients using our software, they're going to produce work for their clients, for games, for movies, so we do that as well.

14:26.22
Kim & Eric
But we work a lot for our projects, but this is how I do marketing. So most of my clients, they're going to be good at meeting the right people, getting their names known in the industry. I'm i'm not good with this. I'm good on TikTok. I'm good on Instagram. So I'm making content and and this is how I get gigs.

14:49.29
Seth Macey
What do you two think it means to be good on Instagram or good at TikTok? It is a skill. People are not sure are, you know, inclined and skilled at social media. It'd be nice if both of you can answer.

15:03.04
Kim & Eric
It's mostly about showing the process. Yeah, and I don't ah would not say that I'm good, but i I think I can for sure say that we both, in our own way, ah in our own ways find find an approach that we find fun,

15:22.97
Kim & Eric
or ah um yeah, that that is actually, that speaks to our artistic process and our own personalities. So we share our art, but Eric especially like likes to share the process we teach. we So we also use social media to to teach and share what we know.

15:46.56
Kim & Eric
um So I don't know, it's just it's just part of of our whole creative process, main mainly the beat the behind the scenes probably. um I'm sure you guys ah have the same kind of experience on Instagram. Sometimes you're going to show yourself in the field taking the picture and it gets more traction than the picture itself.

16:13.61
Seth Macey
h

16:13.72
Aaron
Yeah.

16:14.44
Seth Macey
We've talked about that a lot and that's an interesting concept.

16:16.75
Aaron
I just made fun of a real.

16:17.34
Kim & Eric
Yeah.

16:20.41
Seth Macey
Yeah. Aaron made fun of it when it's taken too far. Like when it, uh, when people end up posting so much about doing the thing that the work itself ends up being absent. Does that make sense?

16:33.35
Kim & Eric
Yeah, but even that, and and I've seen that with other photographers, like you have, there's a hype, like you think you're gonna see something crazy good, and then, no, it's bad, and and that generates a lot of comments, and that probably works for some people.

16:47.75
Aaron
Yeah.

16:48.62
Kim & Eric
ah What works for me is mostly the top down, so the process on top and the the end result at the bottom. That's been a good recipe for me for the the past two years.

17:01.42
Kim & Eric
But we we just have to adjust to what's working with the way people consume things. Because like when I started 12 years ago, there there was nothing like this. There was no way to go viral on social media.

17:14.83
Kim & Eric
So I was just writing articles. And this is what was working back then. But now my I don't do that at all.

17:20.78
Seth Macey
Right.

17:23.93
Aaron
But you mentioned ah you mentioned a ah blueprint that we've talked about a lot.

17:24.08
Kim & Eric
Yeah.

17:27.28
Aaron
We just talked about it the other day on our on our last episode is Having a concept and doing it well ah and and putting that out there as a proof of concept, I can do this.

17:38.92
Aaron
I've done it. I want to do it. I'm passionate about it. That sells, I think, for clients to come in and see exactly what you're talking about versus pitching clients without anything that can resemble what it's going to look like.

17:47.13
Kim & Eric
Yeah.

17:53.99
Kim & Eric
Yeah.

17:54.06
Aaron
And I think that's important.

17:54.11
Kim & Eric
And it gives credibility. So when clients are contacting me, like most of the time I don't know them, but they know me because they've seen my work on Instagram.

18:05.19
Kim & Eric
They know about this to do. They know about the end result. They know what they're going to get into. So. Yeah. And for us, the process of creating these, as you said, proof of concept are enjoyable because for us, it's not really different than creating art, which ah by a position going like to meet people we don't know or like pitch clients for us, this is much less natural. We don't, we're not inclined to do that. So it's just another way to.

18:37.05
Kim & Eric
put our art out there and see what like but what it can bring, basically.

18:43.50
Seth Macey
Yeah, it's so unique that I feel commercially businesses and brands can see the use case. Oh, that's creative and artistic. And then they can instantly see how they can commercialize that.

18:55.71
Kim & Eric
Yep.

18:57.17
Seth Macey
You know what I mean? Do you feel like you two need to deliberately carve out time for fun and artistry or is your work fun balance aligned?

19:10.98
Kim & Eric
We're very lucky. Most of the time, it's fun. We have fun working here in the studio. We have fun when we travel for work. So everything feels like a vacation, except in some rush moments with some projects. But most of the time, we really enjoy the this way of living. I don't see how I could live my life otherwise.

19:35.44
Kim & Eric
But yeah, usually let's say we do a studio session, we'll put it in the the the calendar. So let's say, so so we carve a time specific for that. Or when we travel, when we book a trip to create outdoor light painting for a few days or a few weeks, this is in the calendar and we prepare a weeks in advance to do that. So it's.

20:00.89
Kim & Eric
we have We don't have a very um regular or... a Yeah, the schedule is not filled up because yes, we plan, but sometimes we cannot plan like the next Northern Lights. There's no way to plan that. So we keep our schedule quite empty just in case. ah Same goes with winter storms. If we get the right conditions, we won't be able just to take the car, drive a few hours and and be ready to shoot outdoors.

20:29.79
Seth Macey
Right. Another question that I thought of was, you know, based on what you, you to do, you're in the studio a lot. You're controlling light even outdoors. You're doing light painting where you're con you have control over the scene, right?

20:43.22
Kim & Eric
Mm hmm.

20:45.21
Seth Macey
How do you feel? Because cam on your website, I saw some of these awesome, uh, Eric, I don't know if you took them. I think you did the photos of you dancing with the sunset in the background that

20:56.20
Kim & Eric
Yeah, yeah.

20:58.13
Seth Macey
That's an instance where you can't necessarily control everything in nature. I mean, you can control when you go out, you can time it well, but you're not able to dictate the light painting or control the light in the studio. And my question is how, how does it feel in those moments, the contrast between, you know, being able to control every element and then just,

21:25.79
Seth Macey
breaking it down to having way less variables. Is it freeing, liberating, frustrating? I'm interested to know.

21:35.24
Kim & Eric
so first I think it's more a global experience. okay So what you're referring to is the giant sunsets on the mirror.

21:43.90
Seth Macey
Mhmm.

21:45.29
Kim & Eric
So so yeah so these sets are made in Bolivia on the south flats. And the space is very unique. But we get these conditions mostly every night.

21:57.11
Kim & Eric
So we we know what we're getting into. And that's the first part of the night. And we have just a few minutes after that to prepare for for the light painting of the blue hour. And then we continue with the stars, sleep a little bit, come back up for the moon, the moon set, and then the the blue hour of the morning. So this is a a global experience. But the first part with the giant sun, ah that's very controllable. I mean, this

22:29.18
Kim & Eric
even Even though it goes very fast. It goes fast but we we know how to do that because we've been doing it so many times. To me I feel like the ah biggest ah contrast is between the studio work and the outdoor work because it's true that indoors there's we have control over many things like the weather inside or is it comfortable or like you know um there there are no other source of light than the light painting whereas when we go outside even though we plan just like you exactly probably like your experience in the field

22:55.30
Seth Macey
Yeah.

23:08.12
Kim & Eric
Even though we plan something, it's never we always have to adapt. Things rarely go according to plan, and this is actually something we enjoy. um Not trying to control, because this is exactly when ah ah something presents itself that you didn't plan, that magic magic can happen, I feel.

23:16.53
Seth Macey
yeah

23:28.84
Seth Macey
Right.

23:29.60
Kim & Eric
This is where when you have to adapt, this is where you get creative, and So I feel outdoor light painting and what we do in dense a little bit, but mainly outdoor light painting.

23:42.75
Kim & Eric
Yeah, we we don't control a lot of things except how we will maybe react to these new things.

23:48.82
Seth Macey
Right. Yeah, I mean, I asked the question because it's ah often not always, but Individuals who are very much in control of every aspect of their life have a difficult time letting go when there's things that are out of their control and It's it's nice to hear you say that there's there's you've kind of found the art of letting go I mean you can plan that yeah, there's gonna be a nice sunset But you don't know what the color hues are gonna be You don't know if a cloud is gonna pop in front.

24:16.63
Kim & Eric
Oh, no.

24:17.99
Seth Macey
So it's interesting that you can enjoy that That moment of letting go

24:20.98
Kim & Eric
Yeah. But how many years did it take to to reach that point? To not feel frustration because, yeah.

24:28.34
Seth Macey
Well, you answer your own question then, because it sounds like sounds like it was a process for you.

24:30.23
Kim & Eric
yeah

24:33.70
Kim & Eric
Yeah, of course. I've been doing photography for probably 20 years. I'm not even sure, but it's been a long time. um I started, think yeah two thousand six using a cannoon rebel xte through fifty d I think,

24:53.26
Kim & Eric
um And I did my first commercial gigs, just learning on dpreview dot.com because that was the the only thing back then. And um I did many corporate gigs until I found out that ah I was not very happy doing that. so I was not doing anything special. or until a few years later when I figured out this long exposure thing that I really turned into my own style. Something that happened because of constraints. I was not looking specifically to do this, but I was looking to do something on my own. It wasn't as clear as this, but the moment I

25:39.92
Kim & Eric
found out that I could freeze a subject in a one second exposure using light. I was like, oh, that's it. That's it. this is This is what I'm going to do. And I push so much on that. And I'm still doing it today, still making sense in in my life. But yes, it takes a long time to to reach that point where you're going to feel. And you you know that you're going to create something good, well, except in some rare conditions, some rare moments where, like, I don't know, it rains or it rains and it's cold and then we're shooting. But in most cases, because of the experience, because we push so much together as a team, we're good technically, but we're also enjoying the moment of being outdoors, creating what we love.

26:32.56
Seth Macey
Nice.

26:33.42
Aaron
I have a question to pose, and it might be a long one because I'm trying to figure out how to describe it. But we have two arts that are kind of married here. And I'm curious, I think Kim first, as someone that just graduated from dance school, and now you have this opportunity to see your learning, your technique, your every movement in incredible detail.

27:01.56
Aaron
Is that something that was like astonishing? like ah took your love of dance even higher. I'm getting into these positions.

27:13.55
Aaron
Uh, this is what I've learned. I look beautiful. I like, this is, I've never thought I would ever see myself in this kind of light, literally.

27:21.71
Kim & Eric
Mm.

27:22.36
Aaron
And at the same time also, you know, if, if I'm playing music to myself, I enjoy it. But if I record it, I might go, Ooh, like that note was bad, or I miss that note, or that was a little pitchy.

27:35.33
Aaron
Is, was there, like hearing your own voice on recording takes a minute. Did it take you a while to get used to your own form, your own look, your own, just such detail being, being vulnerable in that sense?

27:48.28
Kim & Eric
what ah What a great question. oh yeah it's it's It's a very good question.

27:51.11
Seth Macey
That is a good question, Aaron.

27:53.27
Kim & Eric
I don't think no one ever asked me that.

27:53.57
Aaron
Thank you.

27:55.72
Kim & Eric
it's Yeah, i want I want to know, especially for the after the first session we had together. ah Well, I don't remember, especially... Well, okay. The short answer is...

28:06.86
Kim & Eric
Because you cried that day.

28:10.40
Kim & Eric
um As a dancer, I never enjoyed looking at myself in a mirror because I always felt like it was taking, my instead of me being invested in the experience, I was kind of looking at myself from outside and looking at myself in an image.

28:34.87
Kim & Eric
was almost the same, a similar experience for a long time. I was highly critical of my performance. ah So it took me a while to kind of let go of many things and ah learn to see myself in another way that could actually, how can I say that?

29:00.98
Kim & Eric
Like on a technical standpoint, it's very useful because i I get instant feedback. So I can, I can improve my, especially when we're we're talking about form, let's say. Uh, but then when we get deeper into like the state of presence and the performance per se, uh, then this is where it gets kind of, uh, interesting because I'm very, I got very, um,

29:32.23
Kim & Eric
not picky, but the more you see, the more you kind of, I was ah able to identify, oh, then I was really living the moment. I was really generous. I was really vulnerable. And then, oh, maybe not. Then I was outside of myself or self-judging or, and maybe the person from the viewer, I'm not even sure if they would be able to pinpoint that, but I think it can still be felt, like,

30:02.34
Kim & Eric
and that's We're getting into like you maybe ah something that is not very tangible, but ah i feel like i'm I think that we can are very perceptible of each other as human beings, so you can you can feel something like that when you look at an image.

30:08.85
Aaron
Mm-hmm.

30:19.38
Kim & Eric
ah But going back to that first experience, it was very particular because it was long exposure stop motion. So we were basically in silence for maybe 15 minutes at a time. Eric was doing one second, one second, one second, and it was just still the whole time.

30:43.05
Kim & Eric
And to me it was a very deep experience of actually being really still. um like The dance was in the absence of movement and it became a very ah very fascinating thing to me as ah as a performer.

31:03.72
Kim & Eric
so

31:03.75
Aaron
Yeah.

31:05.17
Kim & Eric
so that project is called light spin it's very easy to find and you can see a super young Kim Henry and you can see that she's crying because the light was so strong and as opposed to the other dancers she was so focused eyes open that she started to cry and I cut that on camera and it's beautiful

31:28.93
Aaron
that's amazing no

31:30.47
Kim & Eric
ah But I want to continue on your question, Kim. How do you deficiate differentiate what you see in picture, like when you so look at yourself, this compared to a show where you dance that you're looking after you dance? Do watch this? I don't. You never watch any shows where you dance? Very rarely. Oh, wow. OK. Yeah. yeah

31:55.08
Aaron
Now, a follow-up question between the two of you, because I can imagine, so now you have the art of the photography and the art of the dance, there must be at times

31:55.10
Kim & Eric
so

32:07.11
Aaron
Eric, you get the, you get a great light or a great movement or a great flow of a dress like, Oh, wow. I love that. That wave. And Kim says, I don't like the way my foot looked in that.

32:18.43
Aaron
Oh, but I, but I love, but but I love that light.

32:18.72
Kim & Eric
All the time. You know our lives. You've you've been watching our stuff. Or or the yeah yeah are are the opposite.

32:24.92
Aaron
and but No, I have to do that foot move over.

32:27.62
Kim & Eric
I'm like, this one, this this one, there's something like, I feel it.

32:27.88
Aaron
Yeah.

32:31.06
Kim & Eric
I was very present. And he's like, nah my light painting is like mushy on this side. So so so yeah, we most of the time it's...

32:35.08
Aaron
Right.

32:40.15
Kim & Eric
But it's fun because we're both doing a performance and it has to combine.

32:41.21
Aaron
Yeah. Uh-huh.

32:43.47
Kim & Eric
But when it works, it's so cool.

32:46.27
Aaron
Yeah, absolutely.

32:46.57
Kim & Eric
Yeah, we know we have we know we have something special when both of us are like, oh yeah, there's something special in this one. That means like kind of ah things.

32:54.68
Aaron
Yes. The stars align.

32:55.93
Seth Macey
Hey, you have consensus.

32:56.29
Kim & Eric
kind Yeah, yeah.

32:57.42
Aaron
Mm-hmm. Yeah, absolutely.

32:58.48
Seth Macey
Yeah. Yeah. I have a question for Kim initially, but Eric, I'm looking at you. You look very in shape and you're, you know, well-toned.

33:10.09
Seth Macey
Are you, or do you dance at all?

33:11.51
Kim & Eric
No, it's the light.

33:12.25
Seth Macey
Do you work out?

33:12.44
Kim & Eric
This is the light.

33:13.29
Seth Macey
Do you lift?

33:13.52
Kim & Eric
Yeah.

33:13.80
Seth Macey
It's just a light.

33:14.09
Aaron
like

33:14.44
Seth Macey
Okay.

33:15.29
Kim & Eric
No, no.

33:15.55
Seth Macey
Okay.

33:16.47
Kim & Eric
I trained for one reason is to be able to carry my three cameras, three tripods in the sand dunes. That's it.

33:24.46
Seth Macey
You know what? that's a great read That's a great reason to train.

33:26.83
Aaron
just to in shape.

33:28.55
Kim & Eric
Yeah. So we're in.

33:28.77
Seth Macey
Strength training you're referring to.

33:29.01
Aaron
Yeah.

33:31.44
Kim & Eric
Pardon me.

33:32.20
Seth Macey
Strength training. Is that what you're referring to, Eric?

33:34.48
Kim & Eric
Oh, yeah, yeah, a part of it.

33:36.06
Seth Macey
Yeah.

33:36.49
Kim & Eric
ah But also, um so we're in Montreal on the plateau, and we see the the Montreal from the window here. And I love to go walk there with my heavy backpack, just so I don't lose it.

33:49.31
Kim & Eric
ah So yeah, it's part of my training.

33:49.62
Seth Macey
Oh, it's like rucking.

33:51.35
Aaron
Yeah.

33:52.25
Seth Macey
Yeah.

33:52.72
Kim & Eric
Rocking, there's a word for that.

33:54.17
Seth Macey
Yeah.

33:54.21
Aaron
Yes.

33:54.49
Seth Macey
Rucking. R-U-C-K-I-N-G.

33:55.94
Kim & Eric
Oh.

33:56.19
Seth Macey
You put a backpack on, put some heavy stuff in it, usually 50 pounds or so, and you walk.

34:00.04
Aaron
It comes from the army that was called the rucksack and it had all their gear.

34:00.52
Seth Macey
you How can you march?

34:00.70
Kim & Eric
Hmm. Hmm.

34:05.18
Kim & Eric
Oh, smart.

34:06.09
Aaron
Yeah. and but But it is very good exercise.

34:07.32
Seth Macey
Yeah.

34:07.64
Kim & Eric
OK.

34:07.76
Seth Macey
There's a company called Go Rucking.

34:09.57
Aaron
Very good exercise. one One of the best things you can do is carry stuff long distances.

34:15.11
Kim & Eric
Yeah, yeah. And I love doing that because and it's a good training because we we have to walk long distances at crazy time, crazy weather also.

34:15.73
Aaron
That's what they say.

34:23.88
Kim & Eric
like Sometimes at 40 degrees Celsius, 100 and something Fahrenheit with heavy bags. And yes, I i work with three cameras. Yeah, only need three cameras, but why three?

34:35.88
Kim & Eric
Because um I'm shooting a horizontal, vertical. I'm filming what I'm doing. So yeah, I have two tripods and tons of lenses, my tubes, and so many accessories.

34:46.29
Kim & Eric
And when we go out, it's not when we do the dance, we do the light painting, we stay out for for a long time. And you don't want to be a mess. You don't want to be able to do these things. and And it's good in the long run, because that's how we're going to age well, right?

35:01.16
Aaron
Yes.

35:01.80
Kim & Eric
Yeah.

35:02.24
Seth Macey
Yeah, absolutely.

35:02.29
Aaron
Yes.

35:02.76
Seth Macey
And you have an emotionally compelling reason to train hard, which is always important, right?

35:07.80
Kim & Eric
Yeah.

35:08.29
Seth Macey
It's important to have a good reason for why you're doing something that may not be fun in a moment. If you love exercise, like I enjoy exercise. Good. Like that's consider yourself fortunate.

35:18.43
Seth Macey
Many people hate it, right?

35:20.05
Kim & Eric
Yeah, yeah. I love it too. But also to answer your other question, am I a dancer? Not at all. But I do dance with the light around Kim. She's the dancer, but I dance most of the time.

35:32.03
Seth Macey
I wasn't sure if it maybe be rubbed off on you and you were which switched switched roles.

35:32.19
Kim & Eric
Yeah.

35:36.52
Aaron
Yeah.

35:37.66
Kim & Eric
Yeah, no no because Yeah, because because light painting involves a performance ah part because he's in front of the camera as well with me doing the light painting.

35:38.35
Seth Macey
You should do that as a piece of content. You to switch roles, see what happens.

35:53.24
Kim & Eric
So there there is yeah there was a form of performance, I think, within that. Yeah, that's a good point.

35:58.60
Seth Macey
Yeah.

35:59.62
Kim & Eric
I'm not behind the camera. I'm in front of it. And this is where I really got into photography when I started to perform So each image is different because the light the light is crafted by hand and I'm here with the subject doing that light.

36:17.28
Seth Macey
Yeah, you get to perform as well, which is, so the, yeah, the question I'm about to ask then pertains to both of you then, because I wanted to ask what deliberate and intentional movement can teach us about ourselves, not even if it's dance, but just simply moving our bodies with intent and purpose.

36:19.39
Kim & Eric
Yeah, satisfying.

36:39.79
Kim & Eric
Wow.

36:42.40
Kim & Eric
He's deep. That guy is deep.

36:44.95
Aaron
Yeah.

36:45.07
Kim & Eric
Well, my I feel like it starts with stillness.

36:45.58
Seth Macey
Who me?

36:48.77
Seth Macey
But seriously, right? Like moving with ah with an intent, with reason.

36:58.28
Seth Macey
Okay.

37:00.01
Kim & Eric
Uh, once, once you silence the body, because we're always moving, like we're talking right now and probably the listeners as well.

37:00.13
Seth Macey
Say more, say more.

37:10.14
Kim & Eric
Like we always always have like small movements, but once you kind of shut down the the movements or, or not shut down, that's not the right word, but calm the body.

37:24.53
Kim & Eric
I feel like this is when a lot of the the body needs, like sometimes it screams. And just to be aware of that, I think is a good start to then move with intent. Does that make sense?

37:39.52
Seth Macey
Yeah. And my question would be, and I don't expect you to have the answer for this, but maybe just opinion.

37:40.67
Aaron
Yes.

37:47.30
Seth Macey
Why is it so difficult for people to be still? And have you ever struggled with that?

37:53.38
Kim & Eric
Well, with mosquitoes, it's a bit harder. Yeah.

37:56.16
Seth Macey
That's fair. Got to swat them.

37:59.88
Aaron
so

38:01.34
Kim & Eric
oh um When you, that's my experience, when a bit like meditation, if I don't know if if you ever tried still meditation, but once you voluntarily try to stop moving, either this is when the body needs to speak, you you become aware of a lot of things going on and or the mind starts to like be very agitated.

38:13.76
Aaron
Mm hmm.

38:32.85
Kim & Eric
And this can be in our practice when I stay still for long exposure for a session, which can be which which can last for for a long time.

38:39.28
Seth Macey
Mm hmm.

38:43.63
Kim & Eric
ah this This can be a challenge. It was especially at the beginning. Now I feel like it became a practice.

38:53.67
Kim & Eric
Through creating the art that we do, it became easier.

38:59.39
Aaron
Right.

38:59.64
Kim & Eric
ah but Um, but I'm, I don't know if I'm actually answering the question because I, I, I feel like movement is the base of light of life.

39:04.14
Seth Macey
Well,

39:07.76
Kim & Eric
I wish everybody would know it's their body.

39:13.73
Seth Macey
why do you wish that?

39:13.84
Kim & Eric
So, uh,

39:14.53
Seth Macey
Why do you wish that for people who maybe don't move as much as they should?

39:18.83
Kim & Eric
ah because it's, I think it's so an easy to access tool to, uh, uh, what's the word? calibrate, not calibrate, but you know, our body and mind are not separate things.

39:36.50
Kim & Eric
They're, they're kind of one.

39:38.48
Seth Macey
I would agree with that.

39:38.83
Kim & Eric
And, and when you, you can approach many things that are happening in the life.

39:39.35
Aaron
Yeah.

39:48.23
Kim & Eric
So let's say, let's say I'm stressed out right now. if I can either think about it but it's never going to be as efficient if I move than if I move if I activate my body and physiology to actually change my state instead of trying to only use my cognition so that's one of the many example but Yeah, I just feel, I just think it's, we all have a body.

40:15.97
Kim & Eric
we ah We don't necessarily use it as much as we could for all what it can bring.

40:21.31
Aaron
Yep.

40:25.21
Kim & Eric
um

40:25.80
Aaron
I look at ah my, uh, my Husky teaches me a lesson and he has a battery every single day and that battery needs to spend the energy needs to spend the energy in some way.

40:26.01
Kim & Eric
Yeah.

40:39.98
Aaron
And there's a balance here. And if he overdoes it, it might not be good. And then you need to be still and be silent and recharge that battery, eat, rest, sleep.

40:51.83
Aaron
But if you go a couple days without spending enough energy, then some habits start to come in, some anxieties. I have to burn the energy in some way. I'm going to be nervous about this thing and not this thing. Or I'm going to run in circles around the house. So it's like this constant balance, I feel like, that if we let go of the need to move and burn out energy in a good way, we will find other ways to burn out that energy, which probably aren't that good.

41:24.21
Kim & Eric
I could not agree more.

41:25.98
Aaron
And you must be great at yoga.

41:30.02
Kim & Eric
ah I don't know if I'm good at it, but it's part of the many practices of movement that I enjoy.

41:34.52
Aaron
yeah And then practice, yeah.

41:36.66
Kim & Eric
Yeah.

41:36.99
Aaron
But it's such like sitting into positions and stillness and

41:41.05
Kim & Eric
Mm-hmm.

41:42.32
Aaron
and and listening to your body and breathing into aches and pains and and kind of feeling all those moments out, you know.

41:51.85
Kim & Eric
Mm-hmm.

41:52.55
Aaron
I just, I find that a practice for, I feel like anyone out there should should try that. Always consult with your doctor and your physician first. We have to give that thing.

42:03.35
Aaron
but ah

42:04.02
Kim & Eric
Yeah, try it, but do it every day. Once you try it, it's something that you have to do every day. just Because once you have the habit, it changes your life. It's part of the the workflow.

42:13.30
Aaron
Yeah.

42:15.14
Kim & Eric
And we keep saying, like, light painting is a lifestyle. This is what we do. But it's not just the art. It's everything that comes prior to that. which is the yoga, the training, the long walks in nature. It's part of the whole thing and I think it helps to live a fulfilling life.

42:37.44
Kim & Eric
Yeah.

42:37.67
Aaron
Yeah.

42:38.65
Kim & Eric
Like you said that for you, training is fun. Like you enjoy training, but I think whatever it is, movement, moving should be fun.

42:49.64
Kim & Eric
So maybe, maybe yoga is not for everyone. Maybe strength training is not for everyone, but I think everyone there, there, there are enough possibilities for everyone to find one thing that is enjoyable to move within as an activity.

43:07.04
Seth Macey
Mm-hmm. Yeah, even if it's Soccer or Yeah, and and I'm so happy with you Kim because you set up my next question perfectly I Want to ask both of you this and it's it's regarding, you know play ah How important do you guys feel it is to to be playful in today's world I feel like I

43:11.67
Kim & Eric
Yeah, anything.

43:15.21
Aaron
Mm-hmm.

43:20.31
Aaron
Good job.

43:32.44
Seth Macey
as a as a whole, as a society, we've lost our ability to place value and the ability to just play and have fun without being serious. And we see it as meaningless and a waste of time when it, in my opinion, actually opens up an entirely different pathway in the brain and and leads to curiosity and discovering new things. And I'm curious to how you guys view being playful.

43:59.20
Kim & Eric
I didn't want to go to work, I just wanted to play um when I... I finished my three years of programming school. I had this interview at the big place where I knew I would make money and and so I was scheduled for an interview and I didn't go because I just felt that was not what I wanted to do. I wanted to make things on my own then and play and programming was playing, making music was playing back then.

44:35.67
Kim & Eric
um making design art designs. and And over the years, I chose mostly photography. But this thing of having that source of light in my hand and waving it behind Kim, that's it's the game. That's just the fun.

44:56.70
Kim & Eric
um Yeah. I, I don't remember where I heard it. Maybe, maybe at Huberman, maybe not. I'm not sure, but that play was actually related to learning because as kids, that's, that's how we learn a lot of time because that, and I, I, I'm assuming it's because it, it puts us in a mindset that can't be

45:13.71
Seth Macey
Yeah.

45:23.06
Kim & Eric
maybe judgmental or self-judging maybe. So to answer your question, yeah, for me, play is integral to the process whenever we can. Sometimes sometimes we can't because, well, for circumstances we we feel like we have to produce, but still we're trying to do it in a with a sense of curiosity and to let space foreplay.

45:56.55
Kim & Eric
Because once again, this is when you won't control everything. You will allow yourself to maybe mess up or try something new and then something else can happen. So I agree that first, I don't think we should take ourselves seriously.

46:09.38
Seth Macey
Yeah.

46:17.48
Kim & Eric
within the process, which doesn't mean that the process and what we create, we don't care about it or it doesn't have value to us, but but yet to to keep some yeah space for playfulness. Do you guys feel the same when when you're out in the field shooting wild animals? Isn't it the play? Isn't it the game?

46:42.33
Seth Macey
Yeah.

46:42.48
Kim & Eric
the fun of waiting for the animal to do exactly what you had in mind, turn the head.

46:47.36
Seth Macey
Yeah. For me, it's knowing that I can do everything absolutely perfectly and still not execute or get the result I wanted.

46:48.54
Kim & Eric
Yeah.

46:55.55
Seth Macey
That to me is so exciting. And some people may think I'm crazy, but that's exciting to me that I could do everything right. I can prepare a plan and then the last factor is a roll of the dice.

47:07.92
Kim & Eric
nice

47:08.63
Aaron
For me, it's the the play of the universe, if you will, where it's you go out thinking, I really want to get this photo of a fox and you have no concept of the red tail hawk that's going to come down right in front of you and nab off a squirrel, sorry squirrel, but that was just no concept in your mind that that was ever going to happen. And it creates this great image that you had no intention of getting. You wanted that Fox, but then you're just given this gift from the universe, this like magical moment. And then for me, I trace back my, like my steps and I get really freaked out by the timing of everything. Like, Oh, I had to, I ran back in cause I forgot my SD card. And then I came out.

47:52.25
Aaron
And that 30 seconds created me to be in this place at the right exact time. That sort of thing where you play it back to me is like a very playful energy.

48:05.01
Aaron
Uh, I sound very, uh, very, I don't know what the word is.

48:10.37
Seth Macey
Deterministic. It's like determinism.

48:11.45
Aaron
Or yeah, maybe. Um, but, but that is, um, that's kind of the fun of it for me in terms of wildlife.

48:18.34
Kim & Eric
And how do you explain the fact that the more you do it, the more the animals come closer to you, or they're easier to capture? How do you explain that?

48:30.67
Aaron
Well, if you're, if you are in an environment that you're there often, they become acclimated to you. They, they sense you there.

48:37.93
Kim & Eric
Yeah, yeah, right.

48:38.68
Aaron
They, they realize, oh, he's there every single morning. He hasn't hurt anyone. He's just sitting there and they, I think they become more comfortable. They're less skittish.

48:47.74
Kim & Eric
What did you do?

48:49.30
Seth Macey
My answer is a little different.

48:50.80
Kim & Eric
Yeah, go ahead.

48:51.55
Seth Macey
It's, I believe in this concept. People can agree or disagree that the better you get, the more skilled you get, the more lucky you get. And often the more lucky you get, the more skilled you get.

49:04.22
Seth Macey
It's like, you gotta be good to be lucky and you gotta be lucky to be good is what I often say. Uh, because there is an element of luck in, in a lot of aspects of life, right place, right time.

49:16.22
Kim & Eric
Yeah.

49:16.41
Seth Macey
And, uh,

49:16.65
Aaron
Yeah.

49:17.11
Kim & Eric
And the more, the more you go out, the more you increase your chances of being lucky as well.

49:22.32
Seth Macey
Exactly. and the more The better you are at setting yourself up to being an opportunity to win, you you put luck more on your side. you You welcome opportunity naturally because you get good at placing yourself in the right position. but It's like people who are really good at their sport. They know where to be on the field, on the hockey rink, on the court. They know They know where good things are likely to happen. And then there's ah there's a element of letting go and hoping that what you've foreseen comes to fruition in with all the different variables and factors coming together, which in other words would be you know luck or chance.

50:07.56
Aaron
I think there's a there's a piece of manifesting in a sense or energy too, where when you're looking for, the I have this story about wanting to get a photograph of a blue heron.

50:07.76
Kim & Eric
Mm hmm.

50:19.80
Aaron
for about three summers in a row. ah And they're, they're pretty prevalent. They're everywhere. I just could not get a photograph that I liked or anything worth even editing for a while. But once I did, so there was that chase, there's that chase energy. Like I the ah lack, I don't have it. I want to get it.

50:39.28
Aaron
I do not have it and I think that's kind of sent out once I got the photo and was lucky enough to get it then I saw them everywhere they're like flying at me and I think you kind of like Seth said you let go and maybe the energy is ah abundance, like I have it, and it just keeps on coming in. So there might be a piece to that too, just like the energy that you're giving off, maybe it's a sixth sense or some other sense that animals are more in tune to the chasing versus the waiting and sitting and and appreciating and accepting.

51:12.42
Kim & Eric
Yeah, it was clear something. It's just so big that and we we don't know yet. One day we might know. But that's been such a revelation for me when that started to happen.

51:26.36
Kim & Eric
I used to be a bird photographer back in the days.

51:28.52
Aaron
Hmm.

51:30.13
Kim & Eric
And I had to change my lens because I was using the 400 something at 5.6. And the minimal focus distance was something like three or four meters.

51:42.16
Kim & Eric
and the birds started to come one meter distance. I had to change for 300 millimeters with the focus point like very close and got some really cool close-ups and it was a bit more lightweight so it was great also but yeah I was amazed by by how the birds were coming closer and not because it was I was always going the same place I was

51:56.86
Aaron
Yeah.

52:04.04
Kim & Eric
going all around ah different places in around Montreal or I was even traveling to do version photography but wow when the birds started to realize that they were cute in picture. Wow.

52:17.22
Aaron
Yeah. Birds are very vain. That's what we've learned.

52:20.61
Kim & Eric
They do.

52:20.95
Seth Macey
They do strike a pose, huh?

52:21.06
Aaron
Very vain. Yeah. Yeah.

52:25.34
Seth Macey
Yeah, that's very good.

52:25.75
Aaron
no

52:27.27
Seth Macey
Uh, I want to touch on one last thing. It was something you mentioned, Kim. Uh, you said this in one of your answers to one of our questions, uh, something along the lines of giving yourself permission to try something new.

52:41.04
Seth Macey
I feel we can get so caught up in continuing to do the same thing because it's given us success over and over and over again. How do you two know know when it's time to try something new and what does that process look like? do you need to Is there a there a method to giving yourself permission to try something new or does it just come naturally?

53:07.31
Kim & Eric
Naturally.

53:10.20
Kim & Eric
I was about to say constraints. Constraints. That's one major thing, yeah. ah So then naturally, i I would probably say that Eric is a very intuitive person. Well, I think I consider myself as well. But what is natural is that we will be um

53:33.77
Kim & Eric
we will we We will probably listen to how we feel about the creative process. And if we're not still in enjoyment, playfulness, curiosity about what we do, usually we'll will naturally impose constraints on ourselves.

53:54.34
Kim & Eric
to ah maybe Maybe if we get comfortable, that's that's a sign, I think. Well, when when I look at the picture and I'm like, it feels old, but I just did it, then there's something. And I would take the occasion to teach more when I do this. It's because I come to a point where I'm am I able to really reproduce again and again and this is part of what we did last last summer so we recorded super long tutorials because the conditions were just the same over and over but we want to be out so it was very natural to just start explaining the whole process

54:37.85
Kim & Eric
ah But then, of course, we we wanted more, so then we tried with different tools, a different moment. And I really love the moment where suddenly it feels like something new to me. And of course, my might have a different reaction from the viewers but it's really about how I feel about the image itself. yeah oh We had one session this summer where we forced ourselves to do things we were doing like seven years ago because when we were starting doing outdoors to to black painting so seven or eight years ago we're just trying everything and some of the things were kind of cool but somehow we

55:26.15
Kim & Eric
We did not pursue on those directions. So we identified a couple couple of light painting shapes for me and a couple of poses for Kim. And we first o ourselves. ah One night, we go back to to this. And in my case, it was total failure. It was very bad. But for Kim, it was great. She did some pretty cool poses.

55:45.13
Kim & Eric
Yeah, and naturally, I think our creative process kind of comes and goes in cycles, because we go outside more during, let's say the summer, like spring, summer, fall, a bit less during winter. So we do more indoor photography during winter. So that means we we have natural step back.

56:08.72
Kim & Eric
steps back. So that gives us distance ah and space, I think also to yeah just ah look at it with another perspective and decide do we what it needs, what the process needs, if that makes sense.

56:27.98
Kim & Eric
Do you guys do light painting?

56:27.99
Seth Macey
That makes I remember this is hilarious. I remember maybe.

56:36.68
Seth Macey
10 years ago with, uh, maybe more than that with a friend, I had just gotten a camera and everything about it with every photo was great.

56:46.88
Seth Macey
It was that phase, right?

56:48.53
Aaron
Yeah.

56:49.18
Seth Macey
And it was so exciting. And I remember we were outside at night under the stars and one of us had a ah lighter. And, um, I remember thinking it would be a good idea to put the camera on a tripod and I would flick the lighter.

57:07.06
Seth Macey
It was on a long exposure. I'd flick the lighter, take a step to my right, flick the lighter, take a step to my right, flick the lighter. And I did this like 10 times and then it ended up being this really hilarious, but cool at the same time photo of me just looking like a creepy guy in a hood with this spark in front of my face. I'll have to try and find the photo and I'll send you it.

57:25.37
Seth Macey
Uh, but that was, that was just having fun. That was experimenting. That was not caring when anybody thought that was just me being and me doing weird things. Right. And it was so much fun. Uh, but so I'm glad you asked that cause it just made me smile thinking of that memory.

57:38.83
Aaron
Yeah. I've done it a little. I did a Halloween shoot for a client and it was a stove, a fireplace stove for outdoors, a metal stove.

57:50.44
Aaron
And I took a torch dressed all in black and I had ah myself there. So it was a double exposure and then took this torch out and put it around me. So fire, fire kind of light swirling around, um which came out cool.

58:01.22
Kim & Eric
Okay. Nice.

58:05.80
Aaron
It was fun to Uh, do that for kind of the first time and, and have it be somewhat successful and be different.

58:13.46
Kim & Eric
I won't have the links for all of that in the description, please.

58:14.59
Aaron
different Okay.

58:16.99
Seth Macey
I got to find that photo and send you guys it because you guys will laugh so hard.

58:17.09
Aaron
You got it. You got it.

58:19.91
Kim & Eric
Post it. Post it on your main feed on Instagram again.

58:23.17
Seth Macey
Yeah.

58:23.21
Aaron
Okay.

58:23.57
Seth Macey
Yeah.

58:23.91
Aaron
We will.

58:24.05
Seth Macey
I don't know if I'll do that, but you know what we need to do. We need to find a way to do light painting with wild animals.

58:30.80
Aaron
Yeah.

58:31.21
Kim & Eric
Oh, I don't know.

58:31.49
Aaron
That'll be interesting.

58:33.23
Kim & Eric
I don't know.

58:33.96
Seth Macey
That's a joke. Nobody go and do that.

58:34.73
Aaron
That's a joke.

58:35.76
Seth Macey
Don't we don't have a legal team here.

58:35.96
Kim & Eric
Well, we cut a bat once, a bat flying over the light painting shape, and it picks up the the light. Yeah, that can work, but I wouldn't do that now.

58:45.41
Seth Macey
Oh, really?

58:46.18
Aaron
Oh, wouldn't recommend it on purpose. Yeah.

58:52.73
Seth Macey
No, I'm going to find this photo for you guys. That's great. Kim, Eric, thank you so much for your time today. It's been an incredible episode. Be sure to follow their work links. to Their work is in the episode description. You've seen the crazy studio.

59:04.07
Seth Macey
I guarantee you you've seen it on your explore phase, but really appreciative for both of your time today.

59:06.05
Aaron
yeah Yeah.

59:10.49
Seth Macey
We're, you know, we're all busy professionals, but I like that you guys made time to talk and share your insight with listeners.

59:13.44
Aaron
Thank you so much.

59:17.16
Seth Macey
So until next time.

59:18.98
Kim & Eric
Thank you, Seth. Thank you, Aaron. It was a pleasure.

59:20.83
Aaron
You're welcome.

59:21.27
Kim & Eric
Thank you, guys.