Aaron & Seth’s Creative Journey from Beginning to Now Artwork

The Photographer Mindset

The Photographer Mindset is a podcast specifically created for photographers, and those who believe their purpose is to create, inspire and develop into their full potential. The photographer mindset podcast was initiated to help creative individuals understand that their success depends on more than just skill and dedication. In this podcast we learn to develop a winning mindset based on attitude and out of the box thinking strategies so that we can grow our clients, brand recognition & confidence. We want to work smarter towards our goals, not harder.

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The Photographer Mindset

Aaron & Seth’s Creative Journey from Beginning to Now

February 24, 2025 • Seth Macey & Aaron Mannes • Episode 259

Why do our creative journeys twist and turn in unexpected ways?

This episode opens with a nostalgic throwback to one of the first times Aaron and Seth met during an Instagram Live exchange five years ago. Taking inspiration from a listener’s suggestion, we reflect on how we met, got started, earned our first dollar behind the camera, and how our motivations as creators have evolved over time.

We unpack early successes, setbacks, and key lessons that continue to shape our creative journeys. Along the way, we explore staying motivated, maintaining balance, and pivoting when necessary—all while staying true to passion and purpose.

Expect to learn:

Why early creative "success" can sometimes feel deceiving
How to identify when your motivations are shifting and why that's okay
The value of creating for yourself versus external validation
How to gamify tasks and stay motivated long-term
Why letting go of certain identities can spark self-growth

Sponsor:

Thanks to WhiteWall for being our lead sponsor this episode! They're the top choice for photographers who want high-quality prints, with a variety of material options, and who want their work delivered fast in 9 days or less!

You can use the code TPM2025 at checkout for 15% off!
https://www.whitewall.com/

Our Links:

Book a one time virtual 30 minute 1-on-1 session with Aaron or Seth entirely for FREE by using the code "FREETRIAL" at checkout: https://thephotographermindset.com/products/60-minute-virtual-1-on-1-session

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Thanks for listening!
Go get shooting, go get editing, and stay focused.

@sethmacey
@mantis_photography
@thephotographermindset

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00:00:38.58
Seth Macey
All right, so we've done something interesting here. On YouTube, you'll be able to see both Aaron and I, but for now...

00:00:44.26
Aaron
No, they can't yet.

00:00:46.00
Seth Macey
Why?

00:00:46.07
Aaron
Well, yeah. Yeah, they can actually.

00:00:48.92
Seth Macey
me start again.

00:00:49.09
Aaron
But um I'm going to reveal it. I'm going to reveal it for them as well.

00:00:51.57
Seth Macey
Oh, so they can't see you?

00:00:53.62
Aaron
No.

00:00:55.00
Seth Macey
So they're seeing what I'm seeing.

00:00:56.86
Aaron
Yep.

00:00:57.48
Seth Macey
Okay, so I'm seeing in our recording interface right now a black screen. I've taken the liberty of putting on my Canada jersey because there's an important hockey game tonight, Canada versus USA final for all my hockey fans, all like 1% of you.

00:01:12.40
Seth Macey
I made a joke that last time, last week when Canada-US played, it was probably like half the nation of Canada watched and maybe like.00001% Americans did.

00:01:23.52
Aaron
Yeah.

00:01:24.17
Seth Macey
which is hilarious because it's such a big deal to us. And you're just like, what? What's that now? It's not basketball, football, or baseball.

00:01:31.19
Aaron
They're playing a game on ice.

00:01:33.01
Seth Macey
But you texted me today and you were like, what time is that hockey game?

00:01:33.96
Aaron
Why?

00:01:37.30
Seth Macey
And I was like, yes, one of us.

00:01:38.80
Aaron
Okay.

00:01:39.27
Seth Macey
So I got my candidacy on support and I asked Aaron if he would put on his USA, he had any USA stuff. I can't see him just like you can't see him.

00:01:48.50
Aaron
And I'm ready.

00:01:48.69
Seth Macey
And I'm okay.

00:01:50.40
Aaron
I'm ready to reveal.

00:01:51.90
Seth Macey
Okay.

00:01:58.38
Seth Macey
He played the reverse Uno card.

00:02:01.17
Aaron
I reverse UNO'd it. I got my took.

00:02:05.42
Seth Macey
oh wow. I was hoping for a USA Canada. You were in USA stuff and i was go be wearing Canada stuff, but you've doubled down on.

00:02:10.74
Aaron
No, it was a rock paper scissors game of Canada, USA.

00:02:19.59
Seth Macey
oh for our people who are on streaming and not on YouTube. Aaron is wearing Canadian toque, a beautiful hoodie, zippered hoodie that says Canada across the chest.

00:02:34.02
Seth Macey
And I'm wiping tears from my eyes because I'm just so proud. And a maple leaf on the shoulder.

00:02:40.22
Aaron
Yep.

00:02:42.04
Seth Macey
Have we lost super proud of Americans now?

00:02:42.25
Aaron
Represent.

00:02:45.21
Aaron
Yeah.

00:02:45.51
Seth Macey
ah can they?

00:02:45.53
Aaron
Well, you can love thy neighbor, right?

00:02:50.17
Seth Macey
Yeah, we need some right now.

00:02:51.88
Aaron
Yeah. Come on.

00:02:52.81
Seth Macey
We don't get political, but we need some love from our southern sibling.

00:02:57.78
Aaron
Yeah.

00:02:57.82
Seth Macey
um

00:02:58.20
Aaron
No. Canada.

00:03:00.29
Seth Macey
That is amazing. Thank you for doing that. That's so funny. Now I have to go get USA stuff, but I can't.

00:03:07.61
Aaron
Do you know why i have this?

00:03:07.92
Seth Macey
Not with a hockey game on tonight.

00:03:08.84
Aaron
you remember why I have this?

00:03:10.55
Seth Macey
I vaguely remember why you have this Canada gear, and I feel like it's going to nicely weave into our episode today, which is going to be very different. why do you Why do you have this?

00:03:22.90
Seth Macey
First of all, I know why you have it

00:03:26.84
Aaron
Go on.

00:03:28.77
Seth Macey
it. know why you have this. I think you were going to do an interview with me.

00:03:35.34
Aaron
It

00:03:36.55
Seth Macey
on Was it for this show or was it for the Mantis Mood?

00:03:39.68
Aaron
was for this show.

00:03:40.73
Seth Macey
It was for this podcast.

00:03:42.71
Aaron
Yeah, the first time I, well, not the first time I was on, but.

00:03:45.35
Seth Macey
No, but you interviewed me And you came on wearing that stuff. And I feel like I probably had a similar reaction four years ago. And it's probably this Canadian attire has probably sat in a closet for three or four years.

00:04:02.35
Aaron
I think it's about three and I knew exactly where it was.

00:04:02.70
Seth Macey
And now.

00:04:06.24
Aaron
Like I didn't, but I did.

00:04:07.94
Seth Macey
And now you have reset the clock on the rule of if you don't wear something for six months, you're supposed to give it away or donate it or whatever.

00:04:15.30
Aaron
ye

00:04:15.66
Seth Macey
And now it's just you've reset the clock.

00:04:18.51
Aaron
I put it in my iPhone every six months where Canada gear so I can keep it forever.

00:04:22.74
Seth Macey
Alone in your house.

00:04:24.02
Aaron
Yeah.

00:04:26.49
Aaron
Yeah.

00:04:26.63
Seth Macey
Oh, God.

00:04:27.95
Aaron
But I was going to do a, for that show, I remember doing a bunch of promos like ah Instagram stories and I wanted full, I was chugging maple syrup.

00:04:37.14
Seth Macey
Yes, it was so good.

00:04:37.69
Aaron
It's probably in my archives.

00:04:39.80
Seth Macey
So good because you were interviewing me on the podcast.

00:04:40.80
Aaron
Yeah. Yeah.

00:04:43.00
Seth Macey
I think I actually titled that episode, the American invasion, which is hilarious.

00:04:51.90
Aaron
That's good stuff.

00:04:52.80
Seth Macey
So, oh my God, I'm all, I'm all giddy. ah Hopefully Canada wins hockey game tonight. We'll see. We'll see. hope it's a good, I hope it's competitive.

00:05:00.05
Aaron
We'll see.

00:05:01.42
Seth Macey
I hope it's friendly. I hope it's tough.

00:05:03.89
Aaron
Yeah.

00:05:04.05
Seth Macey
um And wow, you look amazing.

00:05:07.15
Aaron
Thank you.

00:05:07.58
Seth Macey
what do we What are we going to do today for today's episode?

00:05:08.33
Aaron
Thank you.

00:05:09.97
Seth Macey
We got something different.

00:05:12.31
Aaron
Yeah, well, we were reminiscing. We were going back on an old father time and discussing. Well, let me back up. ah Someone wrote in, one of our listeners wrote in and asked the question.

00:05:23.51
Seth Macey
Yes.

00:05:25.99
Aaron
ah She said, maybe you guys have already done this and we definitely have touched upon things, but maybe all in one episode would be a good ah good thing to have.

00:05:34.53
Seth Macey
Mm-hmm.

00:05:35.13
Aaron
She goes, have you ever talked about when you guys like met, how you met, how you got started with photography, your first kind of business experience with photography? How did you get to this point?

00:05:47.29
Aaron
Like there's, I have a lot of catching up to do on the show, but I'm curious how you guys got here. And we were reminiscing and I was like, oh my God, I, I used to do this thing on Instagram on like Thursday nights, typically during COVID time when I was home and everyone was a little bit bored and we were just doing stuff.

00:06:06.78
Aaron
I would but have this little show on Instagram live when that was a thing. i I feel... Like, yeah, I was just a weird time in life, but it was a four, think four or five years ago.

00:06:17.05
Seth Macey
No, it's good.

00:06:21.74
Aaron
Like, yeah, obviously almost to the point. It's four and a half years ago. um and I would have different guests on even musical guests, talk about current events, talk about whatever's going on.

00:06:36.54
Aaron
And did that go through?

00:06:38.59
Seth Macey
Yeah, but it's fine.

00:06:39.37
Aaron
Okay. I would have musical guests on. I would have photographers on. I would have friends on. And we kind of would talk about whatever was going on in the world. And Seth was one of, ah he was,

00:06:51.66
Seth Macey
I was one. i was on the Mantis Mood, the prologue to this podcast. For people who are really like loyal listeners of this, and if you know that, that's an amazing piece of trivia.

00:06:56.55
Aaron
i think.

00:07:00.66
Aaron
Yeah, yeah

00:07:05.06
Seth Macey
The Mantis Mood. You had a neon sign too, didn't you?

00:07:06.63
Aaron
that is. I do. I still do.

00:07:10.18
Seth Macey
You still do. We should put it in the background, figure out a way for one of these episodes.

00:07:13.43
Aaron
oh my goodness. It's somewhere around here, but yeah, it's like having bootleg tapes of Grateful Dead before they made an album like that.

00:07:22.74
Seth Macey
I mean, we're not that high caliber, but.

00:07:25.39
Aaron
Well, you know, you know, one day of photographer podcasts, we might be up there with Grateful Dead.

00:07:26.13
Seth Macey
Actually, we are the.

00:07:32.44
Seth Macey
Maybe. We could be.

00:07:36.85
Aaron
don't know. I don't know.

00:07:37.53
Seth Macey
We could be. Well, I mean, your phone ringing was Justin Trudeau calling you being like, Aaron, thank you so much for your Canadian support with what you're wearing. And for God's sakes, people, if you are, go subscribe to the YouTube to see how handsome this man looks right now in his, his Canuck, his Canuck toque.

00:07:43.86
Aaron
Thank you for support.

00:07:50.69
Aaron
um I might have to move. I got the, the beard is growing long. I feel like it suits.

00:07:55.81
Seth Macey
You should have come on with like ice in it.

00:07:57.66
Aaron
I should have frosting. Some, I'm going to go T i have two options.

00:08:00.91
Seth Macey
Can you spell toque though?

00:08:06.76
Aaron
T O Q U e Is that correct?

00:08:08.86
Seth Macey
<unk> Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. d ding ding Yes, and for you Americans, because i know that's the majority of our listeners, a toque is a winter hat.

00:08:15.54
Aaron
There you go.

00:08:15.68
Seth Macey
A wool hat.

00:08:17.16
Aaron
Winter.

00:08:17.28
Seth Macey
A toque.

00:08:18.36
Aaron
Does it have to have the thing on the top or no?

00:08:21.08
Seth Macey
The little ball? No, no, no. um Actually, no, I don't know. I don't think so.

00:08:25.39
Aaron
I was just curious.

00:08:27.08
Seth Macey
Well, so yeah, I was a guest on the Mantis Mood, the prologue of this that we did on Instagram Live. And i you are going to play this today. We found a way to cue it up. And I think we're going to play it because it ties in well to our origin story as like a team.

00:08:42.34
Seth Macey
i think we'll be able to reflect on where we were as individuals at the time. What's changed from then until now. ah Our growth as podcasters, as people, as photographers, how that dynamics evolved, what we've learned along the way, milestones, low moments, struggles.

00:09:01.35
Seth Macey
So, yes, that is a great it's a great recommendation.

00:09:02.78
Aaron
Yeah, so we,

00:09:04.95
Seth Macey
And thank you, Angela, for suggesting that.

00:09:08.30
Aaron
we are I remember at one point you could archive It was Instagram live and you can archive it and you could have up to an hour thing. But eventually they said like, we're going to get rid of these.

00:09:20.70
Aaron
And I figured out a way to archive them all on, on YouTube, just my personal account. And they're unlisted. They're just there. Like, like I wanted to keep them.

00:09:29.13
Seth Macey
Drats.

00:09:31.41
Aaron
Maybe, maybe we'll, maybe we'll launch them on our, yeah, maybe I'll launch them on, uh, on our YouTube.

00:09:32.49
Seth Macey
They should be public. It should be open archive.

00:09:36.78
Seth Macey
We should launch the one with you and I so people can go and watch the 15 minute video.

00:09:38.71
Aaron
Yeah.

00:09:41.41
Aaron
I will. I'll definitely do it.

00:09:42.83
Seth Macey
Yes.

00:09:44.28
Aaron
um But I was able to find it and like, just like we listened to 10 seconds of it and we're like, oh my God, and let's just play this. And kind of like mystery science theater, that old movie with the robots would comment on the, on the films.

00:09:57.77
Aaron
We're going to go through it and stop.

00:09:59.09
Seth Macey
Yes.

00:09:59.29
Aaron
I think at moments where we need to stop.

00:10:01.56
Seth Macey
And just so you know, like Aaron started playing it before we pressed record and I was like, ah, stop. I'm laughing too hard and I want to hear it the first time and it just be so organic. So think we'll go through that. How long is the clip?

00:10:14.78
Aaron
I think it's like 10 to 15 minutes.

00:10:17.25
Seth Macey
Okay. 10 to 15 minutes. We're not going to play all the way through. I think we'll stop at hilarious moments. Or like, ooh, that's interesting. We'll do that. And then we can always go back in time and mention some of the other things that I started.

00:10:30.39
Seth Macey
ah Personal origin stories, etc.

00:10:33.50
Aaron
All right.

00:10:34.24
Seth Macey
Should we start? Mantis Mood?

00:10:36.04
Aaron
Everyone enjoy the show. I'm thinking of.

00:10:38.00
Seth Macey
All right. I have not heard this.

00:10:40.51
Aaron
All right. Who wanted to come on here? Let's see.

00:10:46.47
Aaron
Seth does. Yes. Yes, I, Canada. What about Turkey?

00:10:53.72
Seth Macey
Did you really say yes, I Canada?

00:10:55.88
Aaron
Hey, man. Hey. You're looking good. You know what? I changed the lighting. That's it. let's Let's stop right there. Seth is always complimenting me on...

00:11:08.25
Aaron
my My youthful appearance, looking good, like the outfit. just ah Just a cheerleader in in my corner, and I want to say, from the beginning.

00:11:17.29
Seth Macey
You know what? You know what? Before you press play, this is, I feel like a very important soft skill. Um, I making, no, no, no, no.

00:11:25.45
Aaron
Lie to people. Yeah.

00:11:27.72
Seth Macey
no Everything I say is true. Uh, I make a habit, especially like, let's say I'm in a meeting with somebody who I've never met before and there's a potential opportunity. Maybe there's not even an opportunity.

00:11:43.56
Seth Macey
Just usually, usually scenarios where we're complete strangers and I always make an effort to have the very first thing I say be an icebreaker.

00:11:57.48
Seth Macey
Get the other person feeling good, laughing, loosened up. I feel like it's such a good way to demonstrate that you're easygoing. Maybe you have some wits. I'm not saying you have to do this. I just play to your own strengths, right?

00:12:10.88
Seth Macey
um In an authentic way, of course.

00:12:14.40
Aaron
Mm-hmm.

00:12:14.81
Seth Macey
Right? But just even... I'm trying to refrain from tooting my own horn, but the point I'm trying to make is it's just, it's a nice way to open the door and showcase that you're inviting to, you're you're inviting the other person to relax a bit or

00:12:34.88
Seth Macey
you're demonstrating that you're just kind of down to earth. So starting a conversation with like, wow, man, you look good. Like, what is your first thought about me if you don't know me?

00:12:45.71
Aaron
Yeah, that's nice.

00:12:47.41
Seth Macey
So I think that's a useful piece of advice.

00:12:47.64
Aaron
and

00:12:50.04
Seth Macey
If you're going into a zoom meeting with a potential client or something, just be ridiculous. ah Don't be rude, but just like, even here's an example, sometimes in a call, uh, with and a partnership deal or something, somebody will have a print or something behind them. Like, Oh wow, that's cool.

00:13:07.39
Seth Macey
Like nice print. That's a pretty sweet office. And you get the other person talking about their artwork or their office. It's just, it's a good way to, um, To get dialogue flowing and and ease in and warm up to a conversation, just like how you warm up at the gym before running, as opposed to just getting right into things.

00:13:26.04
Aaron
Yeah, I like that.

00:13:26.11
Seth Macey
So, yeah.

00:13:28.91
Aaron
All right. um Shall we continue?

00:13:30.98
Seth Macey
Yes, we shall.

00:13:32.04
Aaron
It must be the light. Well, two things. I got the iPhone 11. Wow. Okay. Which has a much better camera and like much better, it does a much better job with light. So I had my softbox like blaring with my iPhone 10.

00:13:47.46
Aaron
But then when I switched, it was like two, it was blown out. So now I just got the natural lights going and it gives me a nice glow. It looks great.

00:13:56.50
Seth Macey
You're all about the glow.

00:13:56.88
Aaron
Thank you. You want to know what I just bought today? What? My 150 to 600 millimeter Sigma. Wow. yeah. Yeah. Erase, erase. We'll just go 150, 600 Tamron.

00:14:04.62
Seth Macey
Oh, no, not the Sigma.

00:14:06.33
Aaron
We'll just plug it in. Yeah. Tamron.

00:14:09.66
Seth Macey
Tamron, don't stop sponsoring the show.

00:14:11.94
Aaron
yeah do race racee we'll just go

00:14:15.08
Seth Macey
no no, you know what?

00:14:15.34
Aaron
ah one fifty six hundred ta round well just plug it in

00:14:18.73
Seth Macey
No, no, no.

00:14:19.09
Aaron
and

00:14:19.75
Seth Macey
It's just the voiceover.

00:14:20.97
Aaron
yeah

00:14:21.11
Seth Macey
I just got my Tamron to 150.

00:14:22.87
Aaron
emal um

00:14:23.54
Seth Macey
No, no, no.

00:14:23.56
Aaron
i part

00:14:24.78
Seth Macey
People have asked me, like, because I used to shoot with the Sigma before the Tamron deal. It's a good lens. Like, I'm not hating on that.

00:14:31.83
Aaron
Yeah.

00:14:32.79
Seth Macey
It's a good lens. It works well. So does the Tamron.

00:14:35.85
Aaron
Absolutely.

00:14:35.96
Seth Macey
You know? So I'll never say to somebody like, oh, Sigma sucks. I'm not about that.

00:14:39.36
Aaron
No. Oh.

00:14:40.82
Seth Macey
But that's funny.

00:14:41.65
Aaron
And here I i had it right behind me and I pointed to it. i was like this baby.

00:14:45.30
Seth Macey
That's so funny.

00:14:45.36
Aaron
Join the team. Join the team. So Adam and Mike, you shoot Tamron. Yeah. out Outnumbered at this point. Super questionable. yeah

00:14:55.62
Seth Macey
This keeps getting better.

00:14:55.98
Aaron
let's go do your finals in the in the background real quick. Let's do it. Yeah, let's do it. Which one do you want to start with? That's funny. Top left. Oh, Vance Joy. Cool.

00:15:07.81
Aaron
Do you know Vance Joy? Oh, look who's right beside him. My boy. That was Haley and I went to a John Mayer concert and watched him shred for three hours and then I got that as a birthday gift.

00:15:25.10
Aaron
Yeah, tell me tell me it wasn't amazing. It was good, right? Okay, John Mayer concerts go like this. You're blown away the entire time, but by hour two, you're in your seat like, I get it, you're sick.

00:15:42.73
Aaron
And get a train to catch, I will see you next time. I hear that.

00:15:49.13
Seth Macey
It's true.

00:15:49.67
Aaron
I hear that. I mean, there's I think there's a lot of bands like that that just go nuts. And if you were far away um by any means, you you kind of get checked out.

00:16:01.47
Aaron
Yeah, big time. I saw a Pearl Jam at Fenway and it was kind of Look at that, me assuming you were far away and didn't have good seats.

00:16:07.88
Seth Macey
Yeah. What am I poor? I'm in the bowl seat.

00:16:08.95
Aaron
Yeah, rude. Rude.

00:16:09.64
Seth Macey
How do you know I didn't have floor seats?

00:16:10.32
Aaron
Rude. Rude.

00:16:12.71
Seth Macey
Rude. yeah

00:16:13.30
Aaron
like It was a dream to see them. ah But again, after three and a half hours and I'm 600 meters away. Yeah. it's like All right.

00:16:24.68
Aaron
I'm all set. Dude, all-time favorite, and Nirvana. I've had this Kurt poster. That's sick, dude. For as long as I can remember, i got a whole row in order devoted to Nirvana albums. So Bleach,

00:16:43.31
Aaron
Then we got Nevermind in utero and Unplugged in New York and then he died. but man i don't know if you're a Nirvana fan.

00:16:49.73
Seth Macey
Can we pause?

00:16:52.01
Aaron
but yeah

00:16:53.41
Seth Macey
Why do I sound like Chad Chadley Chadwick?

00:16:56.51
Aaron
We both sound like bros. Young bros.

00:17:01.07
Seth Macey
Okay. but and ah For the record, people, this is our this is Aaron and my first real face-to-face conversation.

00:17:06.77
Aaron
Combo. We DMed maybe a little, but that's not really our, we're not we're not going crazy on DMs ever. That's not our, yeah.

00:17:14.53
Seth Macey
so we're bonding over music. All right. Interesting.

00:17:18.70
Aaron
It's amazing we sound like 10 years younger, I think.

00:17:21.82
Seth Macey
yeah maybe interesting way to one up me

00:17:22.49
Aaron
We sound like a couple of, maybe we're maybe we're peacocking a little bit. Maybe there's a little nerves. At least two of those vinyls. So I've got original pressing of Nevermind and the unplugged one.

00:17:37.64
Aaron
super sick yeah and then i got a row of green day sick so um that was my first cd ever this is vinyl but my mom bought me a green day album and then the year i was born 1994 green day 94 jesus wait the album next to that let me see that is that one rage against the machine oh that's a good album

00:17:48.03
Seth Macey
true

00:18:03.94
Aaron
So that's a real photo. You know that, right? Yeah. That's a, that vinyl is sick. Bunk in Tibet, I think, the who lit himself on fire.

00:18:14.83
Aaron
Wow.

00:18:15.81
Seth Macey
good album cover.

00:18:15.85
Aaron
She has a protest in 1968. And I actually want to know which photographer took that because that is the coolest shot ever. Yeah. That's insane. Like quite crazy.

00:18:28.11
Aaron
Yeah, that album essentially was a live ah live album.

00:18:28.20
Seth Macey
What am I, a Wikipedia page?

00:18:32.39
Aaron
They recorded like four four track, straight through, basically no overdubbing, no anything. ah Just in insane. Yeah.

00:18:42.68
Seth Macey
Pause for a sec.

00:18:43.31
Aaron
yeah Yeah. Now, here's the next question.

00:18:46.08
Seth Macey
You know noticed in our first interaction? This is interesting, just like human behavior. Like, we're both very much showing how much we know.

00:18:57.07
Seth Macey
Like, why did I give you the date of the album?

00:19:00.85
Aaron
that Not even the album. Oh, yeah, you did the album before, but the date of the picture from the album.

00:19:06.33
Seth Macey
Oh, the picture. That's what I mean.

00:19:07.71
Aaron
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:19:07.90
Seth Macey
Yeah, that's hilarious.

00:19:09.01
Aaron
yeah I'm like, do you know I was recorded?

00:19:12.26
Seth Macey
On a four track. Okay, so a lot about music. All right, interesting.

00:19:14.97
Aaron
Yeah, I wonder we're where we're going to go from here.

00:19:16.88
Seth Macey
Uh-huh.

00:19:17.28
Aaron
you playing these vinyls on a turntable, or is it like a collective sort of thing? So some of them still have the packaging on them. um I have a turntable. I didn't buy a Crossley because I freaking hate those things, and they just wreck your vinyls. So if you have one, sorry.

00:19:36.44
Aaron
no i bought a really nice Audio-Technica one. ooh Nice. And... So what I'll do is every now and then if I'm feeling it, it's kind of like, I don't know, it's like a cigar, right? When you're just like feeling one, you'll go and you'll unpackage it.

00:19:51.80
Aaron
um So I'd say half the wall.

00:19:56.47
Seth Macey
Mr.

00:19:56.71
Aaron
Oh, we froze.

00:19:56.71
Seth Macey
Health out here.

00:19:58.61
Aaron
ah I'm gonna get back to in a second. But I got to say also, like, um we're gonna see this on on the YouTube channel, but your beard is like,

00:20:06.13
Seth Macey
Is it big?

00:20:07.22
Aaron
It's like just etch-a-sketched perfectly. And you've got you've got cabbage coming out of the the hat. You've got a toque on, and the cabbage is coming out fast and furious.

00:20:19.63
Seth Macey
yeah I'm snow Chad.

00:20:20.95
Aaron
Yeah.

00:20:22.56
Seth Macey
Wow.

00:20:23.17
Aaron
Still in the packaging. It's just like whatever you're feeling, man. Yeah. It's really cool. But I want to jam with you. Yeah. I think that's happening at some point.

00:20:33.48
Seth Macey
It's not because I'm not a good guitar player.

00:20:33.97
Aaron
Yeah, man. Like I'm just kind of chilling in this little. What he meant by jam with me was start a podcast in a couple of years.

00:20:41.73
Seth Macey
Yeah, maybe.

00:20:42.75
Aaron
Yeah.

00:20:43.75
Seth Macey
Wow.

00:20:44.50
Aaron
Home studio I got going on.

00:20:46.85
Seth Macey
Did have one of those.

00:20:46.96
Aaron
But is that where the podcast happens? Yeah. So I just. So you already started talking to the photographer mindset. Yeah.

00:20:57.12
Aaron
Can I make fun of you for one second? Yeah. All right. Thank you. ah Before I do that, I will say it really was impressive. I'm not kidding. Before you do make fun of me, for everybody listening, Aaron is coming on in two weeks.

00:21:12.22
Aaron
So take what he says with a grain of salt if he's making fun of me. Okay, go make fun of me. All right. So keep telling me how good it was first. I will. the The podcast part, the questioning, the flow, the what I kept saying was how much is this edited? Like, is there a lot?

00:21:30.82
Aaron
Is he cutting this so it's so smooth? And don i don't think he were much. I think it just really was flowing, like the conversation.

00:21:41.14
Aaron
Great questions, great like jump off points. way to bring like people back like Brett who can just talk forever like bring him back but yeah you gotta reel Brett in you gotta reel him in but just really nice job the funny part

00:21:49.06
Seth Macey
Thank you.

00:21:59.45
Aaron
The funny part that I will say, all right and you can fix this, is at the very end, the beginning and end, you have your canned sort of like, hey, welcome to the podcast. The ending was so loud.

00:22:10.19
Aaron
It was loud, but you went, hey, guys. hey guys you will That's it? That's all you can make fun of me for? Yeah, your hey guys, your hey guys was so different than your tone the whole time.

00:22:23.85
Aaron
Your voice was normal, but then you could tell that was a separate recorded thing. So you probably like pressure, like stress, like, okay, gotta record this and sound good. And you were like, hey guys. everyone It was so high.

00:22:40.11
Aaron
that I went, oh my god, that's pre-recorded. And it just made me laugh. But yeah I have helium balloons on standby for my outros.

00:22:44.46
Seth Macey
oh

00:22:47.26
Aaron
ah Nonetheless, i'm see I had to really stretch the knife on you because it really was good. i thought you were going to give it to me a lot worse. But the one tomorrow is with Adam Danny.

00:22:57.42
Aaron
Awesome. Flash from the past. Brett might get mad. Thank God he's not watching. Adam's is my favorite so far. It was good? Yeah. Awesome. Adam and I had never talked until...

00:23:08.14
Seth Macey
You got to pause.

00:23:10.29
Aaron
um

00:23:12.31
Seth Macey
So I guess this is Adam. Danny was the third episode ever and we're on like 250 something. So I guess I had just started this.

00:23:25.36
Seth Macey
This is you're hearing like the show had just started a couple weeks prior to the conversation you're hearing right now, which I didn't realize. I didn't realize they were almost in sync.

00:23:37.09
Aaron
Yeah.

00:23:38.60
Seth Macey
And I was referring to you, i guess you're coming on next week.

00:23:38.83
Aaron
Yeah, that's great.

00:23:42.78
Aaron
Mm-hmm.

00:23:44.71
Seth Macey
um Wow. That's so funny. I was crying laughing.

00:23:52.14
Aaron
and uh and people do have certain talents i noticed then that i feel like seth is a great interviewer great questions able to think on the fly and keep the conversation going that's only ah improved but definitely from the start i remember listening and being like this dude's doing a really good job so

00:24:12.82
Seth Macey
I like how you were comfortable enough and it's been under 10 minutes to make fun of me. Seriously, i like i I think that i'm i am I'm almost taking that as a compliment that you felt like it was, you had permission to do so.

00:24:23.90
Aaron
Yeah.

00:24:31.08
Aaron
Yeah.

00:24:31.14
Seth Macey
I mean, obviously but um most of that is your personality. I'm not taking responsibility for your wit and your funniness, but I'm glad that you like felt you could do that, you know?

00:24:37.61
Aaron
No.

00:24:41.55
Aaron
Yeah. If you feel like you can't, that's usually probably not a great sign for me in like a friendship or relationship or connection. And it's a great way to test someone. Like, how's Seth going to take this?

00:24:50.62
Seth Macey
Right.

00:24:52.18
Aaron
is he confident enough to laugh it off or he going to get upset about it?

00:24:55.54
Seth Macey
Get defensive. Yeah, true.

00:24:57.89
Aaron
And then I'll be like, I'm not doing a podcast with that kid.

00:25:02.72
Aaron
I can tell we recorded. um Really good episode. Cool. Can't wait. I can't wait for you to come on. you want me to hop off? Somebody else can hop on or I don't want to steal your show.

00:25:14.31
Aaron
I just wanted to see your see your gorgeous face. Yeah. Wow. Wow. yeah yeah And that wood thing is sick behind your shelf. Oh, where'd it go?

00:25:25.82
Aaron
Yeah. Oh, because we're both on. That's why. Oh, okay. ah Thank you. Thank you. yeah that i i had a I had a vision and i it was way more expensive barn wood than I thought it would be, but I went with it and I couldn't ah couldn't not finish it. So I even did.

00:25:46.05
Aaron
Can you see way over there next to the TV? My, my so yeah, like way in the corner. There's the slabs. Just showing them around. Nice. Yeah. So it's cool. It's Connecticut barnwood. that's it Yeah.

00:25:59.77
Aaron
There's a place Connecticut lumber down and on the shoreline that has awesome stuff that ah that that's an old beam on the fireplace too from it's still got like the the metal pieces in it from ah like a yoke or something crazy.

00:26:13.68
Aaron
That's cool. Yeah. Well, thanks for working fine because like, yeah, i told you how internet works in Canada, right? yeah Yeah, remind everyone though. So in a remote part of Canada in the wilderness, there's just two beavers and they just stand side by side and they hold a giant, the nation's ethernet cable to get, yeah, just like that.

00:26:39.47
Aaron
And that's what provides the entire nation's internet. that scene in Back to the Future, right? Yes. Yes. So you guys are always making fun of me for being Canadian, but no, it's, it's with love. I think it's jealousy. Mostly.

00:26:56.14
Aaron
ah

00:26:56.40
Seth Macey
Oh, there we go.

00:26:56.70
Aaron
Give me an about. There it is.

00:26:59.27
Seth Macey
Yeah.

00:26:59.76
Aaron
yeah I gotta get off. All right, man. Take care. Yeah.

00:27:05.63
Seth Macey
That wasn't maybe that wasn't the full Mantis mood with me.

00:27:08.58
Aaron
No, I, I, I just realized that, that you just hopped on, right?

00:27:12.74
Seth Macey
That's still great, though. Do we have the Mantis mood?

00:27:15.30
Aaron
Yeah, it's gotta be.

00:27:16.07
Seth Macey
Can we make a timestamp?

00:27:17.97
Aaron
Yeah, it's got to be. Hold on one second. Keep talking. Talk, talk, talk, talk, talk.

00:27:23.23
Seth Macey
Okay, um that was hilarious. I don't think I knew any other descriptive word other than sick, which is hilarious. That's so funny because we went we went from talking about how much we knew, politely, to over-complementing one another,

00:27:50.08
Seth Macey
to Almost like out funnying one another, trying to. Oh,

00:27:55.40
Aaron
Yeah.

00:27:59.10
Aaron
Yeah. I don't have like the beginning beginnings because I think that archive thing was not a thing when I first started.

00:28:05.44
Seth Macey
ah so you don't have the full Mantis mood?

00:28:05.53
Aaron
And then, and you were able, no, that was a full Mantis mood, but that wasn't the one where I had you on as like a guest. You just hopped on, on that one. So we're,

00:28:15.18
Seth Macey
We'll have to find the full one.

00:28:17.18
Aaron
Yes, somehow. i don't I don't know how, but I can look into it. But that is one of our first times talking for sure. Maybe not the first time, if we're being truly accurate, but nonetheless, hilarious.

00:28:30.13
Seth Macey
I hope people enjoyed that.

00:28:32.42
Aaron
I did.

00:28:33.63
Seth Macey
Where were you at?

00:28:33.68
Aaron
I did.

00:28:34.47
Seth Macey
it's ah Where was your photography at at that stage in your life?

00:28:39.34
Aaron
i was probably ahead of myself in confidence versus skill.

00:28:41.60
Seth Macey
What does that mean? What does that mean? Oh, Mr. Dunning Kruger has entered the chat.

00:28:48.91
Aaron
Maybe. ah Well, I think social media can be a ah smokescreen or an illusion sometimes. And ah just I just started that game. I just started the game of social media. And I was getting recognition for things that I hadn't before and felt like, oh, i I found this thing that I'm decent at and people seem to like it. So I think I thought I was bigger than I was.

00:29:21.50
Aaron
i I can tell myself right there when you were like, ah you look good. it's the And I was like the lighting and I was trying, I saw myself and I remember this trying to find the word for like blown out or overexposed.

00:29:34.52
Seth Macey
That's funny.

00:29:34.60
Aaron
Like I couldn't, i I remember trying to be technical in that moment and explaining the lighting that I was having, but yeah, being a little nervous about like, am I saying the right terms?

00:29:45.82
Aaron
I could, I could tell that I was like hesitant just slightly. So that was like my skill level. Uh, but around that time, like Brooke had a, a thing with, um, what's her camera company.

00:30:01.28
Aaron
And they switch OM now it was yeah.

00:30:03.09
Seth Macey
It's OM systems now, but it was Olympus at the time.

00:30:05.85
Aaron
Olympus, Olympus. she had like

00:30:07.00
Seth Macey
Brooke Littleberry referring to. Hmm.

00:30:08.28
Aaron
Brooke little bear had a round table with Olympus that was, um, was broadcast and they asked like who she's looking up to. And she's like, right now, uh, mantis, she even know my name really, but she's like mantis and, his foxes are incredible. I just had those Fox moments. Like there, so there was a lot happening where I felt, I think bigger than I was.

00:30:31.31
Seth Macey
Hmm.

00:30:31.89
Aaron
that's that's kind of That's kind of where I was. where i was like Maybe not bigger than I was, but like really enjoying it and soaking it in and feeling like, oh my God, I have this talent that everyone's noticing. like It was kind of fun because it came out of nowhere.

00:30:43.44
Seth Macey
Yeah, it's interesting how you feel like you have to fill those shoes. Almost like someone I look up to is mentioning my name on a roundtable with a major camera company. I've just started out.

00:30:58.33
Seth Macey
I need to know how to explain what blown out highlights are.

00:30:58.54
Aaron
Yeah.

00:31:01.39
Aaron
yeah

00:31:02.50
Seth Macey
it's It's incredible how we can feel the obligation to be an expert when we know deep down we're not.

00:31:02.93
Aaron
Yeah.

00:31:11.95
Seth Macey
And that is something I feel like we naturally will all struggle with.

00:31:12.28
Aaron
Yeah.

00:31:17.83
Seth Macey
It's impossible to know everything about anything. Right. And, uh, I feel like at times I went the opposite direction early in my photography career.

00:31:23.67
Aaron
Right.

00:31:30.83
Seth Macey
I mentioned, you know, I made the joke Dunning Kruger has entered the chat. Maybe that's more applicable for me. I feel like when I was first starting out photography, even with this podcast, um,

00:31:42.90
Seth Macey
i was able to say things with such conviction when maybe I had no business having that level of confidence behind what I was saying.

00:31:55.09
Aaron
Right.

00:31:55.24
Seth Macey
And it's only as you progress on your journey, your photography journey, your podcast journey, your running journey, whatever, you start to open your eyes to how vast what you don't know is.

00:32:12.48
Seth Macey
How much there is that you don't know. Versus in the beginning, you don't know what you don't know.

00:32:20.19
Aaron
right

00:32:20.19
Seth Macey
You're so confident in the small leaps and bounds that you've made. that you naturally feel like you've you've got this thing figured out. And think Mark Manson talks about this a lot. You can't see your blind spots. That's why they're called blind spots.

00:32:36.28
Seth Macey
And often blind spots are driven over or completely... the fact that they exist is completely forgotten by, by sharing thoughts and opinion with such conviction.

00:32:51.57
Seth Macey
And what's interesting about that is that I feel like we, as people, we go looking for a tutorial or a video or some kind of piece of content that we think will be valuable. And we want the person, people listening want me right now to tell them what to do with conviction.

00:33:11.04
Seth Macey
and I feel like I struggle more to do that, particularly with the show and in my photography as the, as both of those journeys have progressed because I'm so much more aware of what I don't know.

00:33:27.09
Seth Macey
It makes it so much more difficult to lay down a thesis or an argument So concretely in such a black and white way with such conviction. But at the same time, it's interesting because often that is what people respond to. People want to tell me, tell me the answer.

00:33:43.16
Seth Macey
Right.

00:33:43.93
Aaron
Great.

00:33:45.26
Seth Macey
So that's kind of my how I've I feel like have progressed as a.

00:33:45.42
Aaron
what's What's the way?

00:33:51.90
Seth Macey
As a creator and as just like as a person in the last little while is. I am way I'm more doubtful than ever about stuff.

00:34:01.46
Aaron
Yeah.

00:34:02.73
Seth Macey
And that's been a bit of a struggle for me. It almost feels like going backwards. Why am I at times feeling less confident about things? Maybe not confident, but less knowing. i feel like I know way less about this or I don't feel like I can just slap down a statement with raw conviction.

00:34:21.05
Seth Macey
And it's been a bit of a struggle for me to understand, hey, like that's natural because you're you your knowledge, your your experience has expanded. And that's where I'm at currently as I'm saying this.

00:34:32.86
Aaron
Yeah, and as you, I feel like as you improve in any skill, you start to seek out better and better people, better and better peers, better and better examples of work.

00:34:45.51
Aaron
If we're talking music, like better musicians, more interesting songs, more complicated, ah you know lyrically fine, whatever, but I'm listening to this guy's piano and hands and the rhythm that he's playing while singing, and it's like, damn, that's hard.

00:35:02.36
Aaron
i am I can't hold a candle to that. Where when you're starting off and like, oh, this just sounds good, cool. You know, it doesn't have to necessarily be complicated. Music doesn't necessarily have to be complicated to be good.

00:35:14.60
Aaron
Some of the best stuff I think is pretty simple, straightforward stuff. But as you get better, and you, I put together this video I'm really proud of. And then you see or seek out or look at someone else's video or watch a documentary on Apple TV or whatever it may be.

00:35:31.91
Aaron
you're like, damn, others

00:35:34.36
Seth Macey
Which is good.

00:35:35.35
Aaron
it is good. It is good. But you're you're able to look at things and with through a different lens as you get better.

00:35:40.64
Seth Macey
Yes.

00:35:42.24
Aaron
And then it reveals like, Oh, i I thought it was all that, but I got a long way to go and that's okay.

00:35:47.86
Seth Macey
I'm not. Yeah.

00:35:50.87
Aaron
And I'm happy where I am, but for really talk, I don't want to have the, i don't want the the figment of my imagination that like, I'm the best photographer on the East coast because whatever, you know, whatever match metric you have, when you if you really open your eyes and look around, you're like, i could, I could go on Instagram right now and find a hundred people that are doing it more consistently growing, uh, growing in their craft.

00:36:06.34
Seth Macey
Yeah.

00:36:16.04
Seth Macey
Right.

00:36:19.97
Aaron
Just banger photos, like really good photos that took. And now you know, oh, that that must have taken hours of stalking that bird or or waiting in the bush or waiting in the cold.

00:36:34.46
Aaron
That guy's got it. That girl's got it. I don't I don't have that right now, you know.

00:36:40.78
Seth Macey
Yeah, I think there's this, when you first start out, there's this

00:36:48.75
Seth Macey
There's this bliss and ignorance as you, you make that first little bump where you start to noticeably improve and people are say, oh, that's amazing. That's really good. And you, you,

00:37:03.79
Seth Macey
start to get really emotionally charged in a positive way with the bulk of your work that makes up the beginning of your portfolio because you think it's incredible and it's amazing at the time.

00:37:14.98
Seth Macey
And it's really not. I hate to bring it to you. you're youre If you're a beginner listening, the work you're making right now is not likely incredible. It's just not. um

00:37:24.37
Aaron
Yeah.

00:37:26.40
Seth Macey
And then what happens is I think you dive a little bit deeper and then you what happens is you meant you notice all the things you just mentioned. Some of the skill level that's out there beyond your your tight-knit community, friends and family, what have you.

00:37:40.12
Seth Macey
And it's a big come down to go from thinking that you're incredible. as a beginner and amazing to, I am light years away from that quality.

00:37:55.67
Seth Macey
And ah feel like I learned this very on and it helped me from deflating mentally and emotionally was

00:38:06.99
Seth Macey
I'm as good as I can be right now.

00:38:13.01
Seth Macey
I'm, as amazing as is possible at my current stage.

00:38:22.53
Seth Macey
And i think that's, what's important right up until the end to your last breath. like are you as good as you can be separate from everyone else?

00:38:33.16
Aaron
Yeah. You know, we, we talked about this, I think it was, I think it was last week about working, working so hard and does it, what is working so hard and what are the trade-offs? And there's only so many hours in the day and there's a lot of life. And, and I truly believe about, you know,

00:38:55.75
Aaron
figuring out and feeling and and and experiencing a lot of different things.

00:39:01.13
Seth Macey
Mm-hmm.

00:39:01.51
Aaron
think I think that's fun. I think it would be somewhat sad to be, to me, somewhat sad to be so focused on one thing in life that you miss out on all the rest.

00:39:12.58
Aaron
And some of the superstars that we compare ourselves to are like that in in all fields of athletics, sports, art, music, career, um whatever it may be.

00:39:26.62
Aaron
ah Some people get super focused on a small amount of things, and that's where it goes. And that that's absolutely fine. But I think if you want to have of family, if you want to have children, if you do have children, if you want, if you have a career, if you have hobbies, if you have a husky that needs three miles of walking a day, like if you have these things, it's hard to keep up with someone that's laser focused on the thing that you like.

00:39:59.74
Aaron
It just is. It's just they're going to start to lap you. And that's okay. And I think comparing yourselves to other people, you don't know the whole story.

00:40:09.54
Seth Macey
Yeah, it's so true. And I like to think this isn't my original idea and I can't recall where I've heard it from, but that ultimately success is an auction. In the sense that people who are achieving the highest levels of performance and success have paid the most in their time and in their sacrifice.

00:40:34.12
Aaron
Yeah.

00:40:36.34
Seth Macey
It's no different.

00:40:37.60
Aaron
Yep.

00:40:37.83
Seth Macey
I'm curious to know, just going back to the episode idea and some of the, some of the points.

00:40:38.06
Aaron
Yeah.

00:40:42.60
Aaron
Yeah. I was going to, I was going to actually reign us back, but again, you're a pro and you, you did it before me pro.

00:40:49.28
Seth Macey
Thank you, sir. What was the first dollar you made from photography?

00:40:53.96
Aaron
I knew that was going your question

00:40:54.54
Seth Macey
I don't even know the answer to this question. Still finding things out about you.

00:40:59.73
Aaron
for me or for you.

00:41:00.74
Seth Macey
For you.

00:41:00.94
Aaron
Do you? Okay. So, I was actually thinking about this answer during our last conversation. So the answer is there's a lot of free work at first.

00:41:14.50
Aaron
My first reach out was to, and it wasn't through me. I was brought along to Warner's camp. And at Warner's camp, I love Warner's camp.

00:41:27.67
Aaron
ah I give them credit for it helping me and some of my friends get going with the whole cabin thing, the whole Airbnb shooting thing. They have a big following.

00:41:40.24
Aaron
We were able to do some fun stuff at their place with some drone work and photography work. And they started posting some my photos. They posted our group video that we did.

00:41:54.66
Aaron
was awesome. That was a really cool experience to be able to stay somewhere for free, have a guy's weekend. Fortunately, because of COVID, you could not come.

00:42:04.74
Seth Macey
Yeah.

00:42:05.31
Aaron
ah But... is the first time it dawned on me like, oh, this is this is cool, this is a possibility. um That was in the winter.

00:42:17.05
Aaron
I believe it was the summer after we went back to the Adirondacks. You still could not come. That's when Brett had that bug, I think, lay 7,000 eggs in his skull.

00:42:32.66
Aaron
And he woke up and he was like, My head is itchy. And he had this like volcano of juice coming out of his head.

00:42:42.67
Seth Macey
Lovely.

00:42:43.46
Aaron
ah the cabin was that this was not a Warner's camp cabin. I want to make that clear. This was like a, ah a cheap sort of real cabin that was filled with bugs, uh, moths and beetles and Dan and like, Oh,

00:42:54.67
Seth Macey
Yum.

00:42:57.19
Seth Macey
Moths.

00:43:00.88
Seth Macey
You say some stuff like that funny. You say moths funny now and you also say aunt instead of aunt.

00:43:04.55
Aaron
I and ah

00:43:09.33
Seth Macey
It's funny. My aunt. Anyways, continue.

00:43:11.41
Aaron
i say Colorado weird too. Anyways, ah PACA, remember PACA?

00:43:16.90
Seth Macey
I do remember Paka.

00:43:19.03
Aaron
Paka and I had a correspondence and we were going to the Adirondacks and i got a, they handed out or they gave me a trade of a bunch of socks to photograph, which is not easy, especially for someone new in the game.

00:43:34.41
Aaron
did.

00:43:34.54
Seth Macey
Aaron started out in the foot industry.

00:43:37.61
Aaron
it

00:43:37.64
Seth Macey
was a foot photographer. Let your imagination go wild folks.

00:43:41.67
Aaron
but i was really proud of those images that we got again and ah that kind of started the whole thing but to answer your question from that newt and i really started working together or wanting to pursue this hard uh and we reached out to solo stove and the first contracts that we had, I think could have been an Airbnb cabin here and there, but the first real thing that we did was solo stove.

00:44:15.39
Aaron
And they hit us up for like three or four things in a row. pretty big contracts and talk about like riding the wave in the beginning. This is 2021 and getting five figure contracts to do solo stuff, stuff, which was like incredible to me.

00:44:37.94
Seth Macey
Yeah, it's one of your first gigs.

00:44:38.27
Aaron
Uh,

00:44:41.31
Aaron
Yes. And a lot went into it. It was worth it. I think we priced it right, but it was, uh, they were hard work. We had to bring people, we had to set things up. We had to rent out places. We had to scout places.

00:44:58.00
Aaron
Mike and I drove to the Adirondacks one weekend just to look at stuff, to make a flight path before the actual weekend was going to happen. and Like we did a lot of work to make these things happen, but it was, um,

00:45:10.82
Aaron
We were thrown into the fire and figured figured it out.

00:45:13.15
Seth Macey
that's so funny that's your first dollar I did sound design on that project

00:45:16.45
Aaron
Yeah.

00:45:19.29
Aaron
Yeah. Yeah. the ah The flying over the water one, right?

00:45:24.41
Seth Macey
yes yeah I didn't know that I worked on your first project

00:45:24.45
Aaron
Where I'm paddleboarding? Yeah. That's so true.

00:45:31.45
Aaron
Yeah, i think that was the first paid one. Like I said, it's possible that there was an Airbnb, but I don't feel like I... I feel like I was more in the mindset of like, this is just, I'll just trade for this to have a free place at that point.

00:45:45.65
Seth Macey
Yeah. So in a way that that getting thrown into the deep end, being fairly priced, five figures for large project, I feel like you...

00:45:53.40
Aaron
Yeah.

00:45:56.84
Aaron
Yeah. Now just five figures, not like $90,000.

00:46:00.11
Seth Macey
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:46:00.35
Aaron
We're talking, we're talking 10. Yeah.

00:46:01.17
Seth Macey
I feel like you...

00:46:01.38
Aaron
were doing ten

00:46:02.47
Seth Macey
And you had expenses, I get it. I feel like you skipped a large

00:46:09.78
Seth Macey
bulk of...

00:46:15.18
Seth Macey
Chances to mess up or learn on a smaller scale. That's a big jump to go from this is new to me to I'm working with contracts. I'm working with a major brand.

00:46:29.94
Seth Macey
mean, it helps you had Mike on your helps you had Mike on your team who is like the most type a person of all time.

00:46:37.52
Aaron
Yeah, but still new to him.

00:46:40.07
Seth Macey
Yeah.

00:46:40.30
Aaron
you know, um

00:46:44.09
Seth Macey
Why do you this is important question, and beginners are begging me to ask this. How are you able to negotiate that without getting too nuanced and taking up the rest of the episode with it Because I know we could.

00:47:00.09
Seth Macey
There's a lot of probably beginners listening saying, wow, it is possible. Hallelujah. Thank you, Aaron, for instilling hope. Yeah.

00:47:08.79
Aaron
Yeah, I can answer that. um want to throw in a little aside first. One of my first gigs, I actually, I want to correct this. It also was with Mike. I invited him to it, but I had negotiated a deal with a a cabin system ah in New Hampshire. So it wasn't one cabin. It was like a hotel, but a bunch of cabins. I don't know how to describe that except for that.

00:47:36.47
Aaron
ah And it was for it was for very cheap. It gave us the place to stay and I had to take a couple of photos, but that was my first paid actual thing. From that,

00:47:48.33
Aaron
We kind of had the confidence to shop around. Knowing someone or getting like not knowing someone, but we didn't know the person from solo. So but getting someone on the phone and having a conversation and having an idea.

00:48:00.82
Aaron
I've said it a thousand times. If you have an idea or a narrative for a project, you that is what you have to present. It never works.

00:48:12.81
Aaron
It has never worked for me. Just generally saying, Hey, I'm a photographer. You ever need pictures? Let me know. If you ever need video, let me know. Or I could do video for you.

00:48:23.73
Aaron
The only time it's worked is when you create a connection. And I talked about this connection where I made this father's day son solo stove photo that they loved.

00:48:38.93
Aaron
it was It was mini me. It was a mini stove, a big stove. My son was little. We're wearing the same outfit. He has a little hatchet in his hand with a little twig. I have a big ax with a big log that I'm chopping, and we're both tending to our fires on Solo Stove.

00:48:54.00
Seth Macey
Incredible narrative, incredible idea.

00:48:56.62
Aaron
Yeah. And thank you. But I, I agree. Like I was jazzed about this idea. It's hard. I feel like it's very hard to tell a narrative in a photo. Sometimes it's very hard to tell ah an entire story.

00:49:10.03
Aaron
And I was like, this one does it.

00:49:11.41
Seth Macey
that's how, you know, you have a good photo. If you're able to do that in a way.

00:49:13.68
Aaron
Right. Right. So I was proud of this. I shared this. That got me the contact to talk to people. And from there, they're like, what else you think you can do with like, what other narratives can you make?

00:49:28.23
Aaron
Yeah.

00:49:28.65
Seth Macey
Because you have proof of concept, right? You just did proof of concept. I am capable of being creative, you know, coming up with an excellent idea, executing on it and sharing it and speaking with you.

00:49:43.02
Seth Macey
You've just proven your capabilities with one idea.

00:49:43.07
Aaron
yeah

00:49:49.00
Aaron
Yeah. And having, and having teammates definitely help. So bringing people in, whether it's you for sound design, where like, Oh, you're capable of that. That's your thing. We still couldn't get together because of COVID. So Mike,

00:50:03.77
Aaron
Mike was a very eager person. He still is. Mike was very eager to ah like, yeah, let's, let's get this going.

00:50:08.65
Seth Macey
I was going to say was.

00:50:13.58
Aaron
So in, in having those, all right, I got the contact. Now let's bring you into a team meeting. Mike's listening. We're hearing ah they want some, some ideas.

00:50:25.87
Aaron
give us a general sort of feel of what they're looking for. We go away, we meet for hours and figure out this would be sick if we went to the Adirondacks and flew through all their products.

00:50:38.06
Aaron
Right? So how did we price that? How do we negotiate a deal? At that point, we were just kind of doing rough math on how freaking hard this would be and how long this would take.

00:50:53.26
Aaron
in sort of saying like, what would make this worth our time, but also what a good experience to do this and work with a good brand. So we don't want to, we don't want to lose the, ah lose the fish on the, on the lure here.

00:51:08.23
Aaron
We want to make a, a suggestion that we feel like is fair, but competitive. And I don't, I feel like we asked what their budget range was.

00:51:22.78
Aaron
And we took the sort of Adam Coppola sense of like, we could do this in a lot of different ways, but what, what do you have to do?

00:51:33.25
Aaron
Does this, are we doing this in the backwoods of our house? Or are we going to a really cool place like the Adirondacks? We got to sort of figure this out.

00:51:40.36
Seth Macey
Mm-hmm.

00:51:40.76
Aaron
And I think they said, It probably said like, we don't, we can't go above 10. And i was like, well, we could do this for 10 and sort of went back and forth and presented this really cool concept where then it just, it worked out.

00:51:57.67
Aaron
And was it worth it after we had, ah Mike did not fly drones at that point that urged him to fly a drone. We had to hire a drone pilot. We had to hire actors.

00:52:08.49
Aaron
We paid for the, the cabin. We had to split it a bunch of different ways for people doing photography. Like it, it, you did.

00:52:18.68
Seth Macey
Yeah, I think I got paid from that quite well, too. Yeah.

00:52:21.20
Aaron
Yep. We, we wanted pay everyone that helped. um And it was definitely worth it. But at the end of the day, like it was a lot of work and a lot of outsourcing for sure.

00:52:32.01
Seth Macey
yeah Concisely, what was your yeah what was your biggest lesson in a concise sense?

00:52:33.96
Aaron
there was a great experience.

00:52:39.63
Aaron
Biggest lesson was just, I think, again, get yeah your foot in the door with some sort of narrative or idea. Look around the house and be like, I love that product.

00:52:51.54
Aaron
Oh, that's a funny thing. ah um Don't just sit on that, as Ian says. Don't let that go in the idea graveyard. like Try to share that narrative.

00:53:03.80
Aaron
You had a great narrative with my microphone stuff.

00:53:07.23
Seth Macey
It did.

00:53:07.52
Aaron
Like it was, it was so obvious and I'm doing these Valentine shoots. they they're like, we want pairs of the microphones cause we're doing a sale on both of them.

00:53:18.76
Aaron
Um, so that was in my mind. Like I need the pairs. I need two microphones. I tell him about it like, I have to do some microphone microphone shoots for Valentine's Day. Split second, he goes, yo, you just got a video in like 120 frames per second, like putting in the XLR cable with like some sexy music.

00:53:37.74
Aaron
And I was like, oh my.

00:53:38.10
Seth Macey
That's it.

00:53:41.94
Seth Macey
Subtle, right?

00:53:42.95
Aaron
Now, risky, and I probably took it way too far with the rose-pedaled bathtub and the music and the the video direction.

00:53:53.66
Seth Macey
Yeah, it became NSFW pretty quick.

00:53:56.57
Aaron
yeah It was became inappropriate. However, the team did not use it. But the team the team loved it.

00:54:03.74
Seth Macey
That's okay, though.

00:54:05.32
Aaron
And they joked. And the guy was like, this is everyone was dying. like This is killer.

00:54:09.64
Seth Macey
Yeah.

00:54:10.42
Aaron
And that, like showing that creative, the fact that I took the time to do it, the fact that I knew, because I presented it as like, hey, you probably can't use this. It's it's a bit risky. I have a shorter version if you wanted to take that chance.

00:54:25.65
Aaron
But I think it's funny and I think you guys would enjoy it.

00:54:29.13
Seth Macey
It shows you're willing to take risks and you're willing to push the edge and you're willing to find the limit in a way that is low cost to them.

00:54:29.15
Aaron
Like, I think it shows a lot. It shows a lot.

00:54:40.32
Aaron
Yeah. And to even do work when I probably, I didn't hedge my bets and be like, they're not going to use, I'm not going to do it.

00:54:47.09
Seth Macey
Yeah,

00:54:47.35
Aaron
Right. I tried, i tried, i set it up. I did all the work. So they see like, and the this guy puts an effort with nothing else.

00:54:54.99
Seth Macey
yeah and this is another, this has been a constant theme the last few episodes. This is another opportunity to be like, this wasn't wasted time because the result wasn't there, because they didn't use It'd be so easy to say, waste of time.

00:55:10.17
Seth Macey
They didn't use it.

00:55:11.65
Aaron
Yeah. Yeah.

00:55:12.04
Seth Macey
Not a waste of time. You filmed a creative idea. You showed that you're willing to go into risque territory.

00:55:20.54
Aaron
yeah

00:55:20.73
Seth Macey
that That's, that is valuable. And this is ah prime example. If people needed more from this podcast of placing the value in the doing and the execution and not overvaluing the results

00:55:38.49
Aaron
right

00:55:38.98
Seth Macey
The value is not always the result, even if it's what what's desired.

00:55:46.14
Aaron
Yeah. And I'm big now on satisfaction guaranteed.

00:55:51.33
Seth Macey
Meaning what?

00:55:52.18
Aaron
Meaning, listen, if we're talking big contracts and within reason, but if you're talking contracts and you're talking, you have a job to do.

00:56:04.62
Aaron
If it misses the mark and they're not going to use it to me, I'm like, then I missed the mark.

00:56:12.33
Seth Macey
The

00:56:13.11
Aaron
I really, I really am starting to believe that I'm getting less. ah Hey, is there something I can change? Cause now this sucks. i have to work twice as much, but I'll change it to make it work so that you're happy.

00:56:26.39
Aaron
And then that I get paid. But for example, that video, like, Hey, we know the Valentine's video that they're like, we can't use that man.

00:56:31.21
Seth Macey
solo stove?

00:56:37.54
Aaron
was like, I understand. I,

00:56:39.94
Seth Macey
But you had you didn't put all your eggs in that basket, though. You had another alternative.

00:56:42.29
Aaron
so

00:56:43.27
Seth Macey
Get a PG version.

00:56:43.82
Aaron
Yeah, i I had a whole bunch of... Yeah, but but yeah. And I had a whole bunch of photos, which they really wanted. That's what they wanted. They didn't even ask for video.

00:56:54.34
Seth Macey
Oh, okay. i didn't know that.

00:56:55.90
Aaron
It would have been great, I think. I think it would have gotten a lot of traction.

00:56:59.48
Seth Macey
I would have blown up.

00:57:01.10
Aaron
Nonetheless, on the invoice... I want them to know that I'm, while I'm getting paid kind of hourly for a lot of this work with them, that's what we've set up because it's kind of hard to understand how much that's a whole different story, but just trust me on it. Getting paid hourly. When it came down to the video, I didn't, I didn't charge for that, that work. It took, you know, I don't know, a couple hours.

00:57:25.33
Aaron
I just said, ah Valentine's video, uh, free or included.

00:57:28.75
Seth Macey
Free. Yep.

00:57:30.05
Aaron
Just to remind them that I did it, but also like, Hey, I'm not charging you for that. Cause you didn't do it again, a little thing, but it builds trust. and It builds like, Oh, this guy's got our back too.

00:57:38.69
Seth Macey
Yes.

00:57:43.23
Seth Macey
Mm-hmm.

00:57:44.27
Aaron
He's fair. I want to, we want to keep working with him. He'll try stuff. If we don't like it, he's not going to charge us for it, which after a while could get, if we're like, we're missing the mark or we're not on the same page, we might have to have a conversation.

00:57:58.03
Aaron
But if, if it's me taking a chance that was on me.

00:58:01.25
Seth Macey
Yeah. Yeah. It's so funny you say that because I just had an instance like this too. i I handed in some... Funny enough, so a client of mine, i

00:58:13.08
Seth Macey
talked with them and we we came to the conclusion that doing podcast styled content would be... beneficial would make sense as part of their socials marketing plan.

00:58:24.90
Seth Macey
You'll probably see, I'll probably reshare them on my Instagram. Uh, so I utilize my skills, as a podcaster, set up a faux or mock podcast, asked questions so that we could get sound bites that we could post for socials to hit their target demograph.

00:58:40.06
Seth Macey
And, um, so I'm handing in these videos, right. And I i find myself making all these suggestions in the email. Which is fine.

00:58:51.39
Seth Macey
This is my opinion on how to best roll these things out. But I quickly cued in to a certain principle and then I wrote this after writing all my assumptions. I said, however, my priority is that you are happy.

00:59:14.45
Seth Macey
My priority is that you are satisfied

00:59:14.61
Aaron
Yeah.

00:59:19.28
Seth Macey
with the the assets.

00:59:21.64
Aaron
Yeah.

00:59:22.64
Seth Macey
Because I had also made suggestions about using different formatting and what would work best. At the of the day, you got to realize it doesn't matter if who you're handing things into doesn't agree or doesn't isn't happy with your suggestions, even though you may be right.

00:59:42.68
Aaron
Yeah. They they're paying for it. They need to use it.

00:59:46.04
Seth Macey
You're paying for it.

00:59:46.26
Aaron
They, they want some ah ROI. And if they don't trust that it's going to give it or it's missing a mark, they're going to have to, um, they're gonna to eat it.

00:59:56.94
Aaron
So it's, uh, I'm, I'm big on the satisfaction guaranteed part right now.

01:00:02.77
Seth Macey
Yes, that's interesting.

01:00:04.98
Aaron
And it's, I'll tell you what upfront, it's a great sales pitch. Hey, I know my prices are high, but I have a satisfaction guaranteed.

01:00:16.29
Aaron
So if you don't like these and we cannot figure it out, that sucks. You can't use them. I'm not going let you use them, but it gives someone the confidence to be like,

01:00:24.22
Seth Macey
hmm.

01:00:32.05
Aaron
Okay. I think one of the scariest things, especially for new businesses is to say $5,000 for like photos. What if you screw me?

01:00:44.02
Aaron
Like, what if you hand in crap?

01:00:45.16
Seth Macey
And you're thinking the same thing, right?

01:00:47.33
Aaron
Yeah.

01:00:48.17
Seth Macey
It's a breath-holding contest often until you build rapport, until you build chemistry, until you build trust.

01:00:48.44
Aaron
So.

01:00:53.35
Seth Macey
And there's hard skills like handing in good assets on time and there's soft skills.

01:01:00.46
Aaron
Hmm.

01:01:02.11
Seth Macey
Being funny, being approachable, or being responsive.

01:01:02.18
Aaron
And what a nice way to build some build some trust by putting in a contract and having them sign it that they need to be satisfied. They need to want to use the photos.

01:01:14.07
Seth Macey
Yeah. Yeah. For sure. Bouncing around in my notes here, just pertaining to the listener suggestion.

01:01:19.27
Aaron
Yeah.

01:01:23.55
Seth Macey
I have a question for you. You don't need to gush.

01:01:27.20
Aaron
Do you want to, I want to hear your first dollar though.

01:01:30.90
Seth Macey
Oh, my first dollar.

01:01:33.54
Aaron
Yeah. and And while you're talking about it, I'm just going to change my battery to do it seamlessly on YouTube.

01:01:38.19
Seth Macey
Okay.

01:01:40.19
Aaron
It's going to be amazing.

01:01:41.59
Seth Macey
Do we need to do anything?

01:01:42.83
Aaron
Nope. Just keep going.

01:01:45.27
Seth Macey
my first dollar with photography was shooting bands

01:01:54.21
Aaron
Wow. Wow.

01:01:56.02
Seth Macey
was concert photography was shooting college bands and when you're in college you're broke enough as it is right um

01:02:09.12
Seth Macey
at bars, like dingy. I have a really big portfolio of concert photography. I don't know if anybody knows this. I was in it. I love the running gun approach. I loved running around, being on the top deck, getting behind the drummer, doing all that stuff that Mike Nutrino is doing right now.

01:02:23.40
Seth Macey
I love that stuff. Not with bands the size of Goose, but you know, some bands that were pretty big locally. And unfortunately when you're a small band, I don't know if this has changed, but there's not a lot of money.

01:02:34.94
Seth Macey
You get a cut of who you, how many tickets you sell.

01:02:35.47
Aaron
Yeah.

01:02:38.44
Aaron
Yeah.

01:02:39.23
Seth Macey
Right. So even charging 60 bucks, which was what I was charging, I was charging $60 for three hours of shooting. And that didn't include my editing.

01:02:52.77
Seth Macey
Should say that again for everybody?

01:02:54.12
Aaron
Yes.

01:02:55.19
Seth Macey
$60 for three hours of shooting. My point being, you have no idea what you're doing when you're very, very new. So give yourself some slack. You're going to mess up and you're going to kick yourself.

01:03:08.09
Seth Macey
It's going to happen. Still does.

01:03:12.43
Seth Macey
And, you know, that's all I could really feel

01:03:18.55
Seth Macey
good about charging because I knew that I was worth more, but at the same time I was building experience. I knew all these bands. I was very into music. I was at school for audio engineering, which I also thought I wanted to head down a music career at that point realized I was not very skilled at it was focusing more on my photography instead and ended up shooting all these bands instead.

01:03:39.25
Seth Macey
Uh, but I realized that it wouldn't be fair to take the, you know, a hundred dollars of the hundred bucks the band made that night

01:03:52.10
Seth Macey
So i was charging very little and now I had to drive to venues and stuff like that. And looking back, that's hilarious to me.

01:04:06.91
Seth Macey
I mean, I'm glad I was able to help, but that's, that's what I was doing. My Instagram name, I had an Instagram account just for concert photography. Did you know this?

01:04:21.99
Seth Macey
It was called.

01:04:26.72
Seth Macey
Can you hear me? Oh, you're changing your battery.

01:04:31.92
Seth Macey
had an Instagram account just for concert photography and it was called Showtime Shooter. Which was absolutely hilarious. I think it's actually the TPM page now. I think I repurposed it.

01:04:49.23
Seth Macey
going pause because I have no idea what's going on with you.

01:04:54.50
Aaron
Just keep talking, man.

01:04:56.24
Seth Macey
I thought I'm looking at my notes and I thought that you fell off and out of your chair like you seized or something.

01:05:00.11
Aaron
look

01:05:04.73
Aaron
No, I'm good. That

01:05:05.88
Seth Macey
I didn't know if you could hear me if I was talking to a wall or if you'd frozen. That

01:05:10.26
Aaron
was my seamless battery change that did not go seamless.

01:05:12.45
Seth Macey
was not seamless. um Did you hear anything I said?

01:05:16.69
Aaron
Yeah, all of it.

01:05:17.76
Seth Macey
Okay. That was my first dollar of photography. Doing concerts.

01:05:21.58
Aaron
Yeah, but i've I've done it a few times for like Friends or like like you like you said, like smaller, real bands though, like real stages. um I did it for a big Pink Floyd cover band.

01:05:35.31
Aaron
It's fun. It's kind of fun.

01:05:36.21
Seth Macey
It is fun. It is fun.

01:05:38.46
Aaron
Yeah, you can get pretty artistic, I feel like, with the edits and it's it's a good good vibe.

01:05:44.35
Seth Macey
Yeah, I think another.

01:05:45.02
Aaron
i don't know if I could do it all the time, but I do like it.

01:05:45.52
Seth Macey
It

01:05:49.80
Seth Macey
it is fun. I think another interesting question from the the listener suggestion was how did was talking about you being part time, me being full time.

01:06:00.69
Seth Macey
I am not full time right now. I'm just not. Things are slow for me. And I've really tried to

01:06:10.10
Seth Macey
adopt the idea that I presented a few times where I'm trying to like kill my identity as a photographer. I don't want to be just a photographer. You know, i want to be a photographer. I want to be videographer. I want to be creative director. i want to be a sound design guy. I want to be, I picked up part-time work training AI models on how to properly respond.

01:06:31.50
Seth Macey
Um, like I like doing creative stuff. And so i have a like a pretty good basket of income, but by no means am my continuing to be a full-time photographer because the pressure is just not fun, and I want to do other things, too.

01:06:49.43
Aaron
Yeah, I but love that. i love And again, he gives you the ability to just explore, explore life versus getting stuck in a one alley where you're just you're going and and that's it.

01:07:06.20
Seth Macey
and win that and And when that identity is stripped from you, i think you can lose who you are. If I lost my ability to not be able to take photos photographs anymore, who am I?

01:07:18.80
Seth Macey
If my identity is wrapped up in I'm a photographer.

01:07:21.63
Aaron
yeah Yeah, that makes sense.

01:07:23.10
Seth Macey
As opposed to I'm me, I'm creative. I work hard. It's better, I feel like, to have those descriptive words rather than a profession. Because then you can slip and slide into tons of different areas and industries.

01:07:43.00
Aaron
And I could not agree more.

01:07:46.47
Seth Macey
Right?

01:07:47.20
Aaron
Yeah. Yeah.

01:07:48.57
Seth Macey
What else we got?

01:07:49.05
Aaron
Uh,

01:07:49.18
Seth Macey
Anything you want to touch on?

01:07:51.88
Aaron
I don't

01:07:53.04
Seth Macey
mean, I could keep going, but especially since you just changed your battery.

01:07:56.65
Aaron
i know, it's fresh. This could be one of three-hour ones.

01:08:00.52
Seth Macey
Well, I mean, I still have a list of stuff.

01:08:02.89
Aaron
Go.

01:08:05.38
Seth Macey
I guess I would be curious to know what's changed from the beginning to now, since we're kind of doing that theme of if what's motivated you has changed over time to continue to improve, to continue to create content, to continue to record podcasts and talk to me every week, et cetera.

01:08:23.39
Seth Macey
Has what's motivated you changed from four years ago till now?

01:08:28.51
Aaron
Yes. So back to the beginning of this episode or maybe in the middle where i when I started out, I got this attention as like a ah wildlife guy and i got some wildlife gifts for living in the East coast.

01:08:46.24
Aaron
I got some gifts right off the bat. I had a freaking black bear in a tree coming out of hibernation above the road. Like that is a gift where I can be in my forerunner and be 20 feet from a a bear in a tree, have a wide angle lens shot, have a 200, you know, 2.8 shot, have a close up with the, at the time, the Sigma.

01:09:11.39
Seth Macey
Did you get video?

01:09:11.57
Aaron
Like I got some video, but

01:09:14.09
Seth Macey
i was going to say, if you know the times are different because now you would have been filming.

01:09:17.04
Aaron
Yeah.

01:09:18.76
Seth Macey
This real.

01:09:18.85
Aaron
yeah

01:09:20.00
Seth Macey
This is insane. I'll take pictures after.

01:09:21.41
Aaron
Yeah.

01:09:22.00
Seth Macey
Yes.

01:09:23.18
Aaron
took 700 photos, literally of like, well, this is the same shot. ah just kept, I'm just so excited about the moment.

01:09:30.35
Seth Macey
Yes. yes

01:09:32.15
Aaron
The Fox den that like these beautiful foxes are playing and it's a lush green spring day. The leaves, like it was, that was a beautiful, beautiful scene that that one I worked for, but it wasn't super hard.

01:09:47.88
Aaron
Like it figured it out. Like someone told me where a den was. It just took some figuring out and then I had to wait for a bit and it was an incredible scene.

01:10:00.22
Aaron
going out West, like a lot of those things kind of just fell in my lap. And then I realized what wildlife truly is And it was like incredibly hard. I had such a dry spell of like, I can't, I'm not seeing anything. I'm like chasing things on a paddleboard, like trying to get a, any sort of photo of any cool bird that I possibly can, like nothing's happening.

01:10:26.09
Aaron
And I realized like, this is at first it was like winning the lotto. Now it's, This time effort put it into it on the East Coast, the time put into it to maybe get a photo, it's not vibing with my life as a that ah dad with a full-time career, taking care of a house, liking to do music gigs every once in a while.

01:10:53.67
Aaron
Like it just, it was like, this is, this is a sacrifice if I want to do it. So did a few really cool trips with you to Zion. Banff started the podcast.

01:11:07.13
Aaron
Join the podcast, I mean. ah My voice is still messed up from that cold, so I apologize, everyone.

01:11:11.76
Seth Macey
That's okay.

01:11:13.05
Aaron
um Join the podcast. Do a couple of these trips. See grizzly bears. See bighorn sheep. See, like, all these things out west. Huge elk, moose, orcas, grizzlies. We're going to Alaska again. It was so fun.

01:11:30.80
Aaron
I'm kind of saving those wildlife bursts. for those moments at this point, at this point, that's what I'm kind of doing.

01:11:36.16
Seth Macey
I'm on the same page.

01:11:41.27
Aaron
I, in my mind, I have a kayak and I'm like, i want to go out on the kayak once, once in the spring when the birds are going crazy and it's a ah beautiful spring, summer morning.

01:11:54.21
Aaron
I want to do that one time. Cause that's nice. I like paddle boarding. I like doing those things. But the day of days of sitting out, I think, in the woods ah in Connecticut are just like far and few in between because the focus has no, no.

01:12:10.70
Seth Macey
Are you sad about that?

01:12:14.21
Aaron
I think it's shifting.

01:12:14.57
Seth Macey
Because it's letting go of a past that was a large part of your story, which can be very difficult to do.

01:12:21.27
Aaron
It's shifting. it's shifting

01:12:22.44
Seth Macey
It can be very difficult to let go of parts of our story, even if there and even if they're not good ones on top of that.

01:12:29.25
Aaron
Yeah. It's shifting the story. It's shifting of the passion. And now... I'm in a, I would say I'm in a very good place of like having a couple of clients that seems like it's long-term work.

01:12:44.02
Aaron
And that's what I'm focused on. Like that's where my photography and creativity goes to right now. And that's okay. Um, on top of that, like I have the skill, uh, my son's getting really into sports and skiing and soccer and basketball.

01:13:00.08
Aaron
It's really fun to know i can make him a catalog of his growth through this.

01:13:05.57
Seth Macey
Mm-hmm.

01:13:05.64
Aaron
That's like Awesome. It's the stuff that I wish we just did a faculty basketball game. I talked about it last week real quickly, but everyone I'm six, five people are like, can you dunk? And I'm like,

01:13:18.85
Aaron
No, I used to be able to. And I've, I've maybe one VHS of a game where I dumped somewhere at my parents' house somewhere, but it's not the, like if it were now and I was in high school and it was practice, I would be setting up my phone all the time.

01:13:37.01
Aaron
Like there'd be evidence of these cool moments. And I like that for him where I'm like, I can use this skill to really give him some cool looks at his enjoyment of sports.

01:13:51.01
Seth Macey
Right.

01:13:53.42
Aaron
ah So.

01:13:54.14
Seth Macey
That's a pretty good motivating factor now. But I mean, beyond that, for you on a personal level, is there anything that's

01:14:00.74
Aaron
Yeah.

01:14:06.33
Seth Macey
pushing you and charging you forward currently?

01:14:09.95
Aaron
Yeah, I think i think this, week in and week out, this is a lot. In a good way. It's a lot in a good way. We have to schedule between our both schedules and our busy lives.

01:14:20.55
Seth Macey
Yeah, what ah what what bucket does this serve for you? I'm curious.

01:14:25.20
Aaron
think it's creative and growing. It's a growth thing. I like connecting with guests. I like where, I like where the potential is. I feel like there's potential, untapped potential for things to happen with it.

01:14:39.85
Aaron
I do like the, I do like the weekly conversations to be honest about this thing.

01:14:45.55
Seth Macey
Mm-hmm.

01:14:48.63
Aaron
Sometimes it's tough. Like we got life going on. Sometimes it's like, Oh, we have to put on a ah smiley face and talk for an hour.

01:14:56.41
Seth Macey
Well, you know what? You don't have to.

01:14:58.57
Aaron
No, you don't have to, but we do do a good job to try to get there, try to show up to the microphone.

01:15:05.91
Seth Macey
Yeah. So what, in your opinion, like what skill is that building when something is important to you, but you don't necessarily want to do it in the moment and you find a way to do it anyways, because we have this weird dichotomy. We talk a lot about, I think this past year, 2024, we've talked a lot about Saying no to things you don't want to do. Like, no, I'm not doing that. That party you invited me to that I feel obligated to go to. No, no.

01:15:27.91
Seth Macey
But that can get carried away. it's ah It's a fine dance and line between that concept and knowing something is important and finding the

01:15:38.90
Aaron
Mm-hmm.

01:15:45.38
Seth Macey
the will to muster yourself up and get energized for something.

01:15:53.09
Aaron
Yes. So I think a good thought around that is, do I want to work out today? No, not really. I'm not in the mood, but do I long-term do I want to be healthy? Do i want to stay fit?

01:16:07.65
Aaron
Do I want to be strong? Yes. So now these little processes of getting there become little yeses, even though I don't want to, because I know the big yes,

01:16:22.08
Aaron
is out there. So for this, do I want to show up every Monday morning for everyone? Yes. Do I want it? Do I want to be able to say we have another retreat coming up?

01:16:34.77
Aaron
Yes. Do I want to necessarily on a Thursday evening

01:16:43.79
Aaron
like set everything up and record and do all this. Not necessarily like if that's the one thing, but it's not, it's the, it's the end pieces that I look at and go, all right, put your shoes on, strap up, get it on Let's go. this This is happening. You're going to get through it um for the, for the bigger, the greater good, if you will.

01:17:13.56
Seth Macey
Yeah, that makes sense.

01:17:15.46
Aaron
Yeah, I think so.

01:17:17.78
Seth Macey
Yeah.

01:17:18.06
Aaron
yeah And I will say it's just like the gym kind of, no, no matter what mood I'm in or like, uh, I don't necessarily feel like doing this.

01:17:26.01
Seth Macey
By the end.

01:17:27.44
Aaron
Yeah. Once we get, or once I'm even set up and like we press go and we're talking and we're flowing.

01:17:28.20
Seth Macey
By the end, you feel better. Yeah.

01:17:35.04
Aaron
Yeah, it's fine.

01:17:36.35
Seth Macey
You can ask Haley. There's been times where I look at her. I'm like, I really'd rather not. Yeah.

01:17:40.64
Aaron
Yeah.

01:17:41.93
Seth Macey
But then there's other times where I'm saying the same thing where I'm like, I'm so excited for tonight.

01:17:42.02
Aaron
That's just,

01:17:46.84
Seth Macey
And think that's important because at least for me, I don't know about for you, that happens with some things that I'm crazy about.

01:17:56.01
Aaron
Oh my God.

01:17:56.02
Seth Macey
happens to me running.

01:17:56.49
Aaron
Yeah.

01:17:57.38
Seth Macey
I look outside and it's 12 inches of snow and I go,

01:18:03.22
Seth Macey
No, I don't want this, but I want to stay aerobically fit.

01:18:06.50
Aaron
Yeah.

01:18:08.08
Seth Macey
I want to win a race. I want to, all those, the macro you were talking about, but I think it's important to, uh, yeah. Remind ourselves that, uh, that's a natural, it's that thing we talked about lust and love, right?

01:18:23.66
Seth Macey
The beginning. And when you're deep into something,

01:18:24.96
Aaron
Yeah.

01:18:27.41
Aaron
And sometimes you got to like excite it somehow, whether me personally with a lot of my hobbies is new equipment.

01:18:30.03
Seth Macey
how do you do that?

01:18:38.29
Aaron
And I don't know if that's good or bad. However, it motivates me in a financially binding way and like an excitement way to keep going with it.

01:18:51.44
Aaron
My most recent thing was like I spent a good amount of money on a keyboard, ah ah musical keyboard. I played piano growing up my whole life. I'm sad. And it is one of my regrets that I quit in eighth grade, ninth grade.

01:19:06.10
Aaron
And it's just faded since like it's still there, but it's faded. And I had this sense of like, I don't want that to fade to nothing.

01:19:17.35
Aaron
but I need something to excite me about it. And spending good amount of money, saving up for something and spending a good amount of money on something that you are passionate about or feel like you're going to be passionate about, I feel like can, number one, guilt you into doing things a little bit and keep you going.

01:19:39.89
Aaron
But number two, excite you about an old thing that is now new. So I played piano. It's a piano. This baby has bajillion different sounds and sounds you can download from famous songs. And it's makes it very fun to like, I want to play this Pink Floyd song. And it sounds exactly like it. The organ sounds exactly like what's happening in that song. That's really cool.

01:20:07.38
Aaron
So that's just a an example, but whether it's a new lens or a a new body every once in a while or a new computer, like things that get you excited about using there the entire system, the entire pieces of it.

01:20:25.91
Aaron
Now, maybe without money, if people don't feel like, well, I'm not spending more into the something that um is like fading, we've talked about that. Is it really fading or like, do you need a rest or do you need a new, and new angle on a new Avenue on it to, to just kind of like revive it?

01:20:45.37
Seth Macey
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

01:20:47.06
Aaron
I mean, i have golf clubs are golf irons. The technology has not changed in probably 20 years. It is a flat iron that has a certain weight limit that hits a round ball.

01:21:02.01
Aaron
I don't what when they're saying like, oh this iron goes further than the last one. They're just changing the stamp on it. They're saying now a nine iron is an eight iron. Now an eight iron a seven iron.

01:21:12.89
Aaron
And they're just changing the the loft and lie of the club. So it says pitching wedge, but I hit it as far as my old nine iron. Well, it's because it's the same as your old nine iron.

01:21:22.49
Seth Macey
Golf conspiracy.

01:21:23.78
Aaron
Yeah, it is. And I, it's not even conspiracy. It's just truth. Like the, the, the angles have changed. So the point being is I have these old clubs that I've used for a long time and I love them, but to if I were to buy new clubs, I'd be super excited about using those clubs and hoping that it takes my game to the next level.

01:21:44.84
Aaron
And Doing that. So I think there's ways to kind of get that excitement and maybe that's just a me thing, but that is one way that I definitely look into passions that I want to keep going.

01:21:56.15
Aaron
And how do I, how do I inject it with a little bit of a gasoline right now?

01:22:01.90
Seth Macey
Right. Bringing out the wallet.

01:22:03.51
Aaron
What do you do?

01:22:05.02
Seth Macey
I've actually started gamifying things in a way. So I've noticed when I print out a schedule and a table... That's where I can check mark off days.

01:22:16.17
Seth Macey
i am super excited and committed and fall asleep thinking about it. For example, my running blocks. don't worry, people, I'm not going to get too into running. My running blocks are like a, ten let's say a 10 week program, right?

01:22:28.71
Seth Macey
Monday through Sunday. And each day of the week is slow run, a k speed run, intervals, rest day. And every day I check off the day. And every time I do a check mark, I get this little of dopamine, positive energy, whatever you want to call it.

01:22:46.80
Seth Macey
And I find that. And so I keep those charts. on my desk visible all the time. It's like always looking at it. It's never out of sight, out of mind.

01:22:55.40
Aaron
Mm-hmm.

01:22:56.89
Seth Macey
And so i I've noticed with tons of running blocks that I've printed off, when I have printed it off and I've gamified it and checkmarked things, I am so committed and disciplined to sticking to it, almost to a fault at times.

01:23:10.79
Seth Macey
So I had this thought the other day. This is very recent. What if I did? What if I printed off a training block or a workout plan for multiple things that I'm trying to do?

01:23:25.24
Seth Macey
so right now i'm trying to invest more money into my think you guys call it a roth ira in america here it's a tfsa in canada co canada i want to up my contributions which would require budgeting cutting expenses gaining more financial literacy etc so i printed out a 10-week training block

01:23:32.75
Aaron
Mm-hmm.

01:23:49.60
Seth Macey
on it where it's like one one day is review your expenses and another is sell an item you no longer use wednesday rest day thursday

01:23:57.73
Aaron
cool

01:24:00.33
Seth Macey
ah pay off more on your credit card, et cetera. And I did a 10 week training block for that. And it's sitting right beside my running training block.

01:24:09.35
Aaron
Great.

01:24:09.36
Seth Macey
Cause I know that it being on the open and being it being in my line of sight and gamifying it works for me.

01:24:09.52
Aaron
Yeah.

01:24:18.22
Seth Macey
Like it motivates me because I can't walk past it and go, Oh, you haven't ticked off the box today.

01:24:20.08
Aaron
yeah

01:24:25.96
Seth Macey
That's my personality because I'm very competitive with myself.

01:24:32.07
Seth Macey
again, maybe to a fault, but it's, it's funny you ask that because this is a new strategy I'm trying out for all hard things that I'm trying to do.

01:24:41.29
Aaron
I like it. I like that it's put out in front of you and it's something to look at and you have to think about the plan.

01:24:47.65
Seth Macey
It has to be in front of you. Like, how do you take out trash that you can't see?

01:24:49.54
Aaron
Yeah.

01:24:55.82
Seth Macey
How can you you, know, you don't put away laundry you don't see, right?

01:24:57.32
Aaron
How do you really,

01:24:59.60
Seth Macey
It's, it's not,

01:24:59.77
Aaron
yeah How do you really get out of your own way without like planning it out? You got to kind of break the habits that you have on it.

01:25:08.08
Seth Macey
Yeah, I mean, it's on a dresser right now, so to get my socks and underwear on in the morning, I have to look at that sheet.

01:25:09.10
Aaron
It,

01:25:14.48
Aaron
Yeah.

01:25:15.28
Seth Macey
I have to.

01:25:18.55
Aaron
Nope.

01:25:18.60
Seth Macey
So, I don't know if I'm just weird, but if you're someone who feels like you're similar to me, maybe try it out.

01:25:23.06
Aaron
No.

01:25:27.46
Aaron
Yeah, I think it's great if you feel stuck in any way to, like, write it out. Write what you want to do. Come up with a plan, a process.

01:25:37.04
Seth Macey
Yeah, because I'm very much someone who responds to structure like that.

01:25:42.26
Aaron
Yeah.

01:25:42.92
Seth Macey
And rigidity, it's hard word to say. And um it's working so far. And I think the other thing that's really helped me stay, we're talking about motivation, right?

01:25:57.55
Aaron
Mm-hmm.

01:25:58.62
Seth Macey
Forgot what topic we're on, but just to kind of stay chronically motivated. on a day to day I think I've talked about this in a previous previous episode. I was writing down way too many things on my weekly to-do list. I've changed from a weekly to-do list to a daily to-do list.

01:26:22.56
Seth Macey
I was writing so many things down to my weekly to-do list. And often they were just ridiculous things that should be maintenance tasks that shouldn't even be like reply to emails

01:26:32.73
Aaron
Yeah.

01:26:35.89
Aaron
I had this college neighbor, roommate. He wasn't a roommate. He was a neighbor in the dorms. And we'd go in there. This is shout out to Bic. We call him Bic. His last name is Bacardi.

01:26:49.85
Aaron
Shout out to Bic. We'd go into his room and there'd be post-its everywhere.

01:26:54.17
Seth Macey
Yeah.

01:26:54.85
Aaron
Everywhere. All over the place. All over the wall. And we're looking at them and one literally said shower. and we like we're dying like you need a reminder for that like that can't just be part of your

01:27:02.38
Seth Macey
Yeah. Like that's not, that's not a task. Right. So I,

01:27:09.33
Seth Macey
I don't think here's my thing and here's what I'm getting at. I don't think it's a reminder. i think it's a cop out as a way to feel like you're being productive when you're just being busy.

01:27:20.48
Seth Macey
If I write down shower and I checkmark it off, I get this false sense of accomplishment.

01:27:25.73
Aaron
yeah that's funny yeah

01:27:27.77
Seth Macey
Reply to emails. Put.

01:27:32.18
Aaron
drink water.

01:27:32.30
Seth Macey
Do laundry. So you you get like 20 checkmarks by the end of the week and you're like, hell, I've done nothing.

01:27:38.14
Aaron
Right.

01:27:38.56
Seth Macey
Towards what is essential and it gets back to this thing we've talked about is so I've switched to trying to be more of an essentialist which People will remember i'm i'm doing i'm structuring my days now in the morning or the night before as one two three One task that is essential that takes me that i'll work on for two to three hours So today it was a tamron blog post

01:27:47.38
Aaron
Mm-hmm.

01:28:05.49
Seth Macey
two to three hours and then I stop because it often requires a lot of mental effort.

01:28:07.49
Aaron
Mm-hmm.

01:28:12.91
Seth Macey
Two tasks that are both urgent and important, they have to meet both of those criteria. It has to be urgent, time sensitive and important. Now, whatever important is to you, that's, you know, subjective.

01:28:28.85
Seth Macey
And three maintenance tasks. So today was i have a hurt knee. So do physiotherapy on your knee. The idea of the maintenance tasks is you do them now. Otherwise, if you let them slide repeatedly, it'll make a your scenario worse in the future. So you don't reply to emails. You have like a bajillion pile up.

01:28:48.25
Aaron
Right.

01:28:49.20
Seth Macey
So physiotherapy on the knee was a maintenance thing today. Lift weights. Walk the dog for a mile. So you have one essential task. two urgent and important tasks, three maintenance tasks, and I checkmark all those off and I consider that a productive day if that's all I do.

01:29:09.78
Seth Macey
Now I've gone from being busy to being efficient and focusing on things that are essential in my life. It's amazing, and this is not my idea, this is guy by the name of Greg McKeown who wrote a book called Essentialism, which I'm obviously very into.

01:29:27.94
Seth Macey
Because it's a way to buy back your time. And it's a way to prioritize your life as opposed to having other external factors do it for you. And to avoid the, to the I guess, fallacy of, I got a lot done.

01:29:46.64
Seth Macey
Because yeah im I'm busy. I have tons of things on my to-do list. No, you're not busy. You're just just doing stuff.

01:29:54.03
Seth Macey
You're organizing your sock drawer. Right?

01:29:56.60
Aaron
right

01:29:57.88
Seth Macey
So it's been very helpful because I was also finding that when I was not crossing off everything on my weekly to-do list, I'd feel like shit. and Like, man, like you couldn't even get everything done on it.

01:30:09.03
Seth Macey
That's because you can't do everything, man.

01:30:13.21
Aaron
yeah hmm

01:30:13.68
Seth Macey
You can't attend to everything. And it was a calm it was a source of unknown anxiety and frustration. And since I've chopped that Since I've replaced all those busy tasks with essential tasks on a daily time frame, I feel so much more accomplished day in and day out. I can't recommend it enough.

01:30:38.28
Seth Macey
So that's helping me stay motivated too on daily. I'm making progress because I'm ticking off one, two, three every day.

01:30:49.48
Aaron
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I like it. i like the um I like the structure of it.

01:30:54.07
Seth Macey
That's how I got our Alaska video done. The one we're talking about and past episodes, it sat and it sat and it sat and it sat and I put it as my essential project for two weeks straight and it got done.

01:31:06.76
Seth Macey
I'm willing to bet had I not adopted this strategy, it would still be sitting on my hard drive, all that footage.

01:31:13.67
Aaron
Yeah.

01:31:15.51
Seth Macey
And now, is working on that project sacrificing other things I could be doing? Yes. But it's also forcing me to work linearly. Now when I'm done the Alaska thing, I'll move on to the other thing.

01:31:23.76
Aaron
you

01:31:26.42
Seth Macey
And naturally, I'll pick the thing that is most pressing and most important to me at the time.

01:31:32.99
Aaron
Yeah.

01:31:36.03
Aaron
All right. Well, we sure do.

01:31:37.68
Seth Macey
We got a Canada-USA game to watch. Well, this will air on Monday, and we'll see.

01:31:41.17
Aaron
I gotta take my dog out. Let's see what happens.

01:31:45.26
Seth Macey
You going to keep the Jersey on for the game?

01:31:47.50
Aaron
Hell no.

01:31:48.25
Seth Macey
Oh, you know what? That's fair.

01:31:51.33
Aaron
If, um,

01:31:52.42
Seth Macey
That's fair. We'll see if there's booing of the anthems.

01:31:54.75
Aaron
I will.

01:31:55.99
Seth Macey
That's been crazy.

01:31:57.71
Aaron
Yeah, we'll see.

01:31:58.55
Seth Macey
We'll see. Cause it's in TD garden in Boston.

01:32:01.42
Aaron
Exciting.

01:32:01.57
Seth Macey
I think, I think the Canadian anthem will be ah drowned out personally, but we'll see. We'll see.

01:32:10.08
Aaron
Yeah. Well, thanks for writing in, Angela, and asking the question.

01:32:10.98
Seth Macey
And,

01:32:14.01
Aaron
Hopefully we at least hit a little bit of it. I think we did. I think we got some gems in there.

01:32:19.53
Seth Macey
Yeah, and go see, subscribe on YouTube if you haven't already. See Aaron and his Canada Gitch with his toque. And as always, if you find these episodes are helpful, useful, have nuggets of knowledge, feel free to leave a rating and review on Spotify, Apple Podcasts.

01:32:36.47
Seth Macey
Free, cost-effective way to support the show and us. We'll always do these for free. But until next time, man.

01:32:43.64
Aaron
Take care.

01:32:46.95
Aaron
two