4 Things That Fuelled Our Photography Success (Pt. 1)

In today’s episode, we reflect on our photography journeys, sharing pivotal strategies and mindset shifts that have shaped our growth. We explore the art of building momentum from small gigs, mastering versatility to meet different creative demands, and finding freedom in letting go of rigid expectations. With compelling stories and thoughtful analogies to keep things engaging, this conversation offers plenty of inspiration for photographers and creatives at any level.

Expect to Learn:

• Why broadening your skill set helps you and excel in creative projects
• How to use small success to build momentum towards larger opportunities
• Why networking may be the most important opportunity generator.
• Why focusing on the process rather than outcomes will automatically bring you success
• How to start thinking about "value gained" beyond simply earning money.

Sponsor:

Thanks to Tamron for being our lead sponsor this episode! Explore the 28-75mm f/2.8 G2 lens with $200 USD & $300 CAD off and deals on many more lenses during their for your Sony E-mount, Nikon Z, and FUJIFILM X-mount mirrorless cameras by clicking www.tamron-americas.com or by visiting your local Tamron authorized dealer. The Spring Savings event is on now until April 20th, 2025. 

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Thanks for listening!
Go get shooting, go get editing, and stay focused.

@sethmacey
@mantis_photography

Transcript

00:00:12.90
Seth Macey
Hey, I'm Seth.

00:00:15.25
Aaron
And i am Aaron.

00:00:18.12
Seth Macey
You forgot for a minute, didn't you?

00:00:19.96
Aaron
You threw it off. It was different.

00:00:21.91
Seth Macey
It has to be different. Well, today's episode is going to be, i think, very concise. It's going to be a self-evaluation but done by me and done by you. This part one of a part two series of what we think, from our own perspective, we've gotten right.

00:00:36.80
Seth Macey
Things we've done correctly during our photography journey. The journey is always, of course, never ending. But I think that we've had some mild success and we're going to share our own personal opinion, our own self self evaluation of what those things are and the nuance of those things that maybe people can implement themselves.

00:00:57.44
Aaron
Yeah, exactly. I think that sounds fun, succinct to the point, and hopefully helpful for people listening.

00:01:04.17
Seth Macey
Yeah, back to photography after last week where we said we weren't allowed to say the photography words. so Now we can get back to getting it all out of our system.

00:01:11.21
Aaron
Yeah, thank goodness. That was tough.

00:01:13.54
Seth Macey
Yeah, it was difficult. It was difficult, but it was a good palate cleanser. ah So I think the format of this is maybe I'll do two, you'll do two, and then we'll do a part two next week.

00:01:16.58
Aaron
Mm-hmm.

00:01:23.26
Seth Macey
ah And we'll kind of bounce back and forth. I'll say something, and then you'll have your thoughts, I'm sure. And who the hell knows where our conversations go? I don't anymore.

00:01:33.55
Aaron
Nope. ah Yeah, let's let's get at it. we've We've got a format, so at least it's going somewhere. Oh,

00:01:38.98
Seth Macey
That's true. That's true. Well, since it was sort of my idea that I threw upon you, I will give you the grace of going first. Do you mind?

00:01:45.95
Aaron
oh okay. Yeah.

00:01:48.31
Seth Macey
You didn't want to go first. What is that about people who don't want to go first? Are you, i want to go, are you a first in line person or are you, ah I'll wait and see early on.

00:01:54.90
Aaron
Early on, I'm an early on.

00:01:56.83
Seth Macey
You're like third in line.

00:01:58.24
Aaron
Yeah, I wanna see what we're dealing with. One presentation, two presentations, then I'll get it going. Just if I have to make any quick adjustments on the fly.

00:02:06.37
Seth Macey
Interesting.

00:02:10.77
Aaron
Yeah, I don't i don't need to wait till the very end, but

00:02:14.05
Seth Macey
You're not last, but you're not first, but you're up in the top percentile of going first.

00:02:18.50
Aaron
i would I would think so.

00:02:20.12
Seth Macey
Okay, that's fair. Well, I'm gonna make them me going make you go first.

00:02:20.70
Aaron
Ready to go. Okay, is now it's just the question of which one do I want to share?

00:02:28.08
Seth Macey
Yeah. One thing you've gotten right that has helped you with your success in your photography journey that you would like people to know about.

00:02:36.96
Aaron
Yeah, I think from the b beginning on, early-ish on in in the photography career, I sort of imagined this skill set out in the ether.

00:02:53.46
Aaron
And what I mean by that, it wasn't just photography. It was kind of this big overarching umbrella of what I wanted to get into.

00:02:59.23
Seth Macey
Thank

00:03:06.08
Aaron
And having that sort of direction out there somewhere floating in my brain or even writing things down, I had this idea of I want to get good at photography, but I also want to edit in a certain way.

00:03:20.20
Aaron
I want to try this certain way of editing. Not only that, I am interested in video. Eventually, I would like to get into doing some video stuff and testing my metal at that.

00:03:33.92
Aaron
Oh, drone stuff is really cool. I want to be able to fly a drone and take cool photos with that. i want to add that to my repertoire, my tool belt. So I had this idea of what are the things within photography or content creation or marketing or whatever it may be?

00:03:54.62
Aaron
what are What are the tool set that I want to get to? And I didn't overwhelm myself. It wasn't like when you go to college and yeah you get that first day syllabus of all the stuff that you're going to do.

00:04:05.98
Aaron
It's not due in a day. You have the whole semester to get this stuff done. But in my mind, I kind of held it like that, like, hey, these are all the things that I would like to try at least to the things that I'm interested in that I feel like will help me overall.

00:04:23.33
Aaron
And because of that, I felt that there's been many opportunities with some businesses, marketing, Airbnbs, stuff that I've done for my personal stuff where I have this tool belt to be able to say, I can do this or use this aspect or this video would be great here or drone footage would be great here.

00:04:46.56
Aaron
Photography only would be great here. A mix of the both would be great here. ah where I feel that I'm very covered for almost any job that comes to my way or anything that I want to do that says, hey, can you can you do this?

00:05:00.69
Aaron
you have this capability? Are you able to do this as well? And being able to offer all these different things.

00:05:07.81
Seth Macey
Yeah, what you're speaking about is a style. um i mean, i guess I guess you can choose and it's on a spectrum of I'm going to be super well-rounded or I'm going to be a very, I'm going to very much be an expert in one or two areas.

00:05:19.41
Aaron
Yeah. And I think I've always liked the well-rounded approach with life, with everything to me. I mean, we, we've seen it. I feel like you can, you can be an expert at certain things, but certain things move on, certain things change, certain things go, and that might leave you high and dry.

00:05:38.86
Aaron
It could, or it could just be your, it could be your niche and you're, you're really drilled down to like, this is what you do and you're not going to waste your time with some other stuff. And people might argue like, yeah, well, you're not the best at any of that stuff. And I'd say, you're correct. I am not.

00:05:53.38
Aaron
However, for most cases in my life and my career and what I'm looking to do with photography on a part-time basis it really does sort of fill the gamut of what I can offer for these sort of part-time jobs.

00:06:10.50
Seth Macey
Thank

00:06:10.51
Aaron
ah So it works for me a bit better than to just be limited as a part-time person that says like, no, I only do drone photography. Okay, well, that's that's not what we need for this one.

00:06:22.17
Aaron
And if I'm not really trying to fill my calendar with gigs, it's very helpful for when things come come along where I can say yes to most requests.

00:06:32.25
Seth Macey
Got it. So if I'm hearing you correctly, you think that it's more valuable to be the guy who can do a whole bunch of stuff for an entity or a client as opposed to having them go seek out the best in each individual category for what they may need.

00:06:46.20
Aaron
i I guess it depends on the client, but for, for me, that's worked nicely. I just did photography stuff with a financial group, uh, catching them in the action of their day to day.

00:06:51.96
Seth Macey
Okay.

00:06:57.99
Aaron
And that was very fun.

00:06:58.62
Seth Macey
Okay. Case study. Case study. How did being versatile help you from start to finish?

00:07:00.16
Aaron
Yeah.

00:07:04.95
Aaron
Great. So it started with photography, right? Hey, we, we need some pictures. I have a connection, which was one of my other points, but We have a connection.

00:07:15.49
Aaron
ah Hey, you do photography. Can you capture in the way that you capture your lifestyle stuff? I've seen with your like Airbnbs. Can you capture that at an kind of boring office setting?

00:07:26.89
Aaron
Can you try to make it more engaging? Our photography more engaging? Sure. This sounds like a challenge. This will be fun. I can use some long lenses. I can get some candid shots. I can do some different things that I want to.

00:07:37.94
Aaron
that goes really well. Great. Hey, do you happen to do video? We have to do these bio videos. Uh, they're easy. Maybe, you know, one or two cameras, some lighting, ah just people saying what they do here with cue cards. Uh, and I was like, absolutely. Because I got into that skill before i have lighting.

00:07:57.87
Aaron
I have multiple bodies and cameras. I've done video editing on premiere. There's nothing in my brain that goes, well, this is out of my league. Instead, if I had no clue, I might go, oh you know, i have someone that could do it or I don't know.

00:08:13.16
Aaron
And now they have to go search for that sort of thing. But now I can keep the work coming and feel like, Hey, there's different avenues of work here. I can give them good prices. They have a one-stop shop for most of their needs here.

00:08:26.76
Aaron
um This is not a Super Bowl commercial. It's just, it's within my wheelhouse. It's within my range of video. From there, they're in a really cool office and they're like, Hey, we saw a FPV fly through drone for social media purposes. Do you think you could like do a quick fly through of our ah property?

00:08:47.77
Aaron
And I was like, I probably could. It's huge. And I have the equipment. So Job number three, able to do because of that sort of toolkit that I developed from the beginning, not all at once, but out of developing interest and being like, hey, I want to try this also. Hey, I want to try this also.

00:09:07.05
Aaron
And in some cases, it served me really well.

00:09:08.68
Seth Macey
okay Yeah, so what you just said there, I want to, I want to, kind of leads into my next question was, how do you know what would be useful in your own tool belt? And this could be a combination of things. It sounds like at first, and correct me if I am wrong, that it was, I'm interested in learning that thing because it seems fun.

00:09:24.63
Seth Macey
I'm interested in that. I would like to. I want to have that skill. Is it simply, was filling your tool belt simply fulfilling that process? Or was it also recognizing, ooh, they just asked me to do some, client X or whoever asked me to do something that I am definitely incapable of.

00:09:43.41
Seth Macey
That might be handy. So in other words, was it also being asked to do things that you had an aha or a realization that I don't, I have no idea how to do this.

00:09:44.68
Aaron
Mm-hmm.

00:09:53.19
Seth Macey
So i may as well learn for, so that I don't get, ah Or so that I can offer that skill set to people in the future.

00:10:01.70
Aaron
Yeah, ah this goes back to, i talked about on one of our shows, my first paid gig with Neutrino, Mike Neutrino.

00:10:10.74
Seth Macey
hmm.

00:10:10.96
Aaron
And we were, at that time, we had someone that was an FPV drone pilot and they they wanted a ridiculous price for the day's work.

00:10:22.86
Aaron
So we found someone else sort of last minute to help us out. And we outsourced that part of the gig. However, because of travel and whatnot, it was a little sketchy in terms of the pressure or the stress getting them to the place and and running through it and having the trust that this is going to be good or they know what they're doing.

00:10:48.04
Aaron
It turned out great. But from that point, ah we all know Mike is an FPV pilot and has done a great job. And he said, no more. Like I'm taking this skill over.

00:11:00.55
Aaron
So I don't have to ever worry about who's doing this. And this is a great skill to be able to offer.

00:11:06.57
Seth Macey
Right.

00:11:08.76
Aaron
So similar things like that, that wasn't the top of my list. I didn't have a huge desire to learn that thing at that point. But down the road ah with technology being easier, DJI has some cool FPV versions of getting that look ah at a sort of basic level, but it still gives you that look.

00:11:29.99
Aaron
And that came down the road. But that lesson there was sort of a eye opener of like, you if you're limited, it hurts the potential to create some of these jobs you either have to have really close connections or team of people that can do stuff uh and or learn stuff yourself that is that's probably the best way ah so you don't have to outsource or trust other people necessarily unless you have a well-trusted team that you've built but to be able to say

00:12:02.50
Aaron
Okay, I can work. So they want video. I can work my way around a video camera. I know the techs or the tech around it. I know Premiere Pro. This does not seem out of my league. I've done plenty of projects on my own.

00:12:14.24
Aaron
This will help me only going forward. ah

00:12:17.94
Seth Macey
Makes sense. Yeah.

00:12:18.71
Aaron
Yeah, so.

00:12:19.65
Seth Macey
I guess it comes down, you know, you mentioned FIFA, right?

00:12:20.04
Aaron
Yeah,

00:12:23.17
Seth Macey
Anybody who plays like video games, FIFA NBA or NHL, whatever, you have the the player ratings, right? Their overall rating and then you can go into skills.

00:12:29.54
Aaron
yeah. yeah

00:12:31.29
Seth Macey
If you're doing soccer, I don't know.

00:12:33.10
Aaron
Yeah.

00:12:33.83
Seth Macey
i don't I know hockey, power, speed, all that stuff.

00:12:35.17
Aaron
I go where you, I get where you're going with this.

00:12:37.72
Seth Macey
So, I mean, what you're talking about is a specific desire to have ah a certain style where maybe, let's say, you're 70s or 80s and everything, and that's your overall rating is, you know, solid versus somebody who has 99 skating and 99 slapshot power, right?

00:12:55.33
Seth Macey
Like, they're going to be... designed for a certain task and I feel like both people can with their creativity position themselves to win but it's I like you're obviously explaining your experience and how it's worked for you so I think it's important that people note just deciding your skill set is a is a creative choice and it's a it's stylistic in a sense

00:13:06.52
Aaron
Yeah.

00:13:21.46
Aaron
Yeah, I think that's a great, great analogy. All time metaphor. Nice job. ah I, I agree. It sets you up to be able to do. And again, I'm coming from a, I'm going to do this part time, at least for now.

00:13:37.41
Seth Macey
Right.

00:13:37.81
Aaron
I'm not stopping my day job. I'm not putting full effort into a niche to create, I'm not going, I'm a wedding photographer and that's what I'm going book my schedule with because I need to make a salary and have the best wedding photos in New England, right?

00:13:55.34
Aaron
i'm I'm going wherever I meet something or an opportunity, i would love to be able to squeeze out as much as I can from those opportunities and not just say,

00:14:07.56
Seth Macey
Right.

00:14:11.27
Aaron
it's, it's happened with almost every gig I feel like that I've had where they're like, do you have capability to do reels? you have capability to do x y and Z?

00:14:21.23
Seth Macey
right

00:14:21.19
Aaron
And the more times you have to say no, it's just like, okay, well now i have to find another client again versus staying with a client for a long time and coming up with projects that you're going to systematically do throughout the year.

00:14:33.85
Aaron
That's been really nice to have that, uh, occasionally, not all the time, but occasionally where you're like, oh, for the next couple months, i am I'm set with my part-time gig, right?

00:14:42.61
Seth Macey
Yes.

00:14:45.09
Aaron
And but to be able to offer or talk about other opportunities where then you could pitch to them, hey, we've done photos, you like that. What about a quick two-minute video on what's going on in your office and sort of introduce everyone?

00:15:01.73
Aaron
Here's some of the videos I've made.

00:15:01.78
Seth Macey
yeah

00:15:03.49
Aaron
You can see that they're professional. You can see that they're decent. Like we could do that also for a decent price. Like let's keep it going.

00:15:10.87
Seth Macey
Hey, man, you've liaison beautifully into my point. I don't want to just change it to about me.

00:15:15.43
Aaron
No, please.

00:15:15.99
Seth Macey
and We're on a tight schedule, but that was an awesome tether to one of my points for one of the things that I've gotten right in my photography journey.

00:15:17.57
Aaron
Yeah.

00:15:25.01
Seth Macey
And that was building off of small momentum. So you just said it.

00:15:29.60
Aaron
That's good one.

00:15:30.87
Seth Macey
that youve You've been hired to do headshots. Hey, we can also do this. We can do fly-through or um some reels or some a testimonial video.

00:15:42.16
Seth Macey
Here's a proof of concept that I've built either in my own time for free or with another client as ah as a way to demonstrate some you know an additional thing that we can do.

00:15:47.95
Aaron
Mm-hmm.

00:15:52.39
Seth Macey
Because sometimes people... Unless you say, hey, it could be a good idea to do this also, i don't think the person you're working for is going to always bring that up on their own.

00:16:05.12
Seth Macey
In your case with the financial firm, they brought it up. Hey, could you also do this? Hey, could you also do this? Which is great. But I think often sometimes, let's say you're to continue with the example of headshots, you're hired for headshots, you could you do your work and you go home, which is great.

00:16:20.46
Seth Macey
But if you can build off of the small gig that you already have. And I guess suggest something that's even larger and provides even more value and just be the one steering the ship in that sense.

00:16:37.72
Seth Macey
I think you can a build a better relationship with that relationship. Client person because you're just you're simply doing more for them. Now you generate more income for yourself and you can expand your portfolio.

00:16:46.35
Aaron
Yeah.

00:16:49.73
Seth Macey
So I think I learned early on to

00:16:56.17
Seth Macey
not just one and done stuff. I hate doing stuff, wiping my hands and walking away. I am very much looking. i don't want to use the Hermosa. You got to scale. Like you don't have to scale. If you want to do what you're asked to do and go home, that's fine.

00:17:11.25
Seth Macey
I feel like it can open the doors and it's a chance for you to flex that tool belt that you just described in your first point and to, to utilize it. It can open the door for a lot more creative opportunities.

00:17:23.87
Seth Macey
um down the line so building off a small momentum like that is is i think super important what do you think

00:17:35.04
Aaron
Yeah, I want you to expand on that more. I'm curious if you have examples of times in the beginning or when you figured that out or when it went well and you're like, hey, this is a blueprint I'm going to continue to use.

00:17:51.35
Aaron
ah

00:17:51.70
Seth Macey
Sure. I have an example.

00:17:52.15
Aaron
This worked really well.

00:17:53.66
Seth Macey
I have an example right now. So the first time i ever went, or maybe it was this, it was this first, maybe the second time, doesn't matter that I went to Jasper national park.

00:18:05.06
Seth Macey
I reached out to the tourism board. i didn't have enough followers at the time. It was a thing where you needed to have, i think over 10,000 something to be allowed to work with them.

00:18:14.75
Aaron
Yeah.

00:18:15.20
Seth Macey
I just asked if I could, you know, create some social media content for them, uh, go on some of the excursions that tour operators offer in the area, such as wildlife tours or the Moline Lake, um, boat cruise to spirit Island. They said yes. So, I mean, point number one there is ask for stuff, um,

00:18:37.72
Aaron
yeah

00:18:37.90
Seth Macey
Right. So I was getting paid to capture social media content and that's all great. I could have left it at that. Right. Yeah. Tourism Jasper was a client. Sweet. I got to do social media content for them. I said, Hey, why don't I take this?

00:18:52.72
Seth Macey
Cause this is because talking about the tool belt, I wanted to get more into writing. I wanted to start getting writing gigs. I said, why don't I take all this content? A lot of the wildlife that I've captured there. And can I write some guest blogs for you? I'll do them for you for free.

00:19:07.97
Seth Macey
because i had no writing experience at the time. And having blog posts published by a rep reputable tourism board, for me, I saw the value in that despite not getting paid for it. I figured that was a way to scale all the content I had already captured and to build a relationship with my person there.

00:19:28.88
Seth Macey
I remember the person there being very skeptical at the time. She's do you have any writing ability or not ability, but experience? I said, no.

00:19:37.64
Aaron
hey school I wrote stories ready to go

00:19:40.50
Seth Macey
Exactly. So ended up being really good. They loved it. And um I think I wrote a second one.

00:19:51.86
Seth Macey
And fast forward to 2023. Well, first of all, now I have published articles in conjunction with a really reputable brand. I think that's i think it's important to weigh on this that the the value versus the time it spent me is tremendous.

00:20:12.32
Seth Macey
I, so I'm not getting paid, but the value that brings in terms of proof of concept is huge, massive.

00:20:16.58
Aaron
Yeah, yes.

00:20:18.54
Seth Macey
Now I can go, when I go to pitch another, ah rather client for a writing gig, you have experience? Yeah, actually here's some links to things I did for tourism Jasper.

00:20:29.26
Aaron
Right.

00:20:30.46
Seth Macey
Okay, so i think it's important to it to, and this is touching on free work, I think it's important to weigh the ratio between time spent and value gained.

00:20:31.08
Aaron
Huge.

00:20:41.41
Seth Macey
That's always, I feel like, my go-to formula, and it's going to be different for everyone when deciding whether to... uh, do a proof of concept or do some work for free?

00:20:52.67
Seth Macey
What is the value that's being gained? It could be perhaps you're writing for a charity organization. Maybe the value is that you're getting more information out there for a cause you care about. Maybe it's that you, uh, add a really cool client to your, your client list. I don't know. It's different for everybody, but I i just wanted to touch on that. Okay.

00:21:08.99
Aaron
Yeah.

00:21:09.16
Seth Macey
Getting back to the story. So fast forward to 2023, where we 2023? Okay.

00:21:14.09
Aaron
Jasper, Banff and Jasper.

00:21:14.95
Seth Macey
You and I went to Jasper as the annual ah TPM photography retreat.

00:21:20.67
Aaron
Yep.

00:21:21.90
Seth Macey
And I was able to reach out to my contact there after having done ah really good job first with social media stuff, then blog stuff and say, hey, I have how many people we have six.

00:21:33.96
Aaron
Mm-hmm.

00:21:35.05
Seth Macey
Six photographers coming. Can you hook us up with some really good lodging? Can you hook us up with some really awesome excursions that were, mind you, paid for in exchange for some photos, which added to the overall experience? And I think most people would say that it was like a 10 out of 10 experience because people said that to us, right?

00:21:54.78
Seth Macey
Our guests or our attendees.

00:21:54.82
Aaron
Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

00:21:58.05
Seth Macey
That was a way to that. That was just an overall scale. Yeah. right? That was, that was building off of small momentum of a little tiny social media content gig into, Hey, can you give us lodging?

00:22:02.35
Aaron
yeah

00:22:08.58
Seth Macey
Can you give us excursions that contributed to the success of a very, very important trip for everybody, for our business. And I feel like that's a, that's the first example that comes to my mind of how you can just continue to build on momentum and avoid the one and done type situations. Did I elaborate enough for you? Does that make sense?

00:22:27.77
Aaron
Yeah, it's great. And I, I mean, it's a perfect example. And I think there's a sub point here, which almost was one of my main points and and you touched on it too, which is yeah just being money is not the only thing that has value.

00:22:35.53
Seth Macey
Right. Mm-hmm.

00:22:41.80
Seth Macey
right

00:22:42.98
Aaron
it's really important starting off that you can understand different currencies of value, whether that is ah my writings now gonna be in a reputable company's blog, whether it's just proof of concept that you can use over and over again with someone else, whether it's a first time you've done something and you actually just wanna try with a real client,

00:23:07.71
Aaron
and get better at what you're trying to do with practice, whether it's a friend or a company that you you really like or a local company where you can say like, hey, for a free dinner, i'll I'll do some photographs for your your your menu or your food or your drinks and sort of build a repertoire if you know

00:23:12.35
Seth Macey
Yeah.

00:23:32.43
Aaron
I want to actually, i want to do food photography, but like, where do I start? You have to start somewhere where there's value other than just getting paid. And i think for almost all of my paid gigs started from an idea that i did on my own and, and

00:23:53.56
Seth Macey
And it was relatively small.

00:23:55.86
Aaron
yeah Yeah, relatively small and handed over or wrote a narrative or took time to make a Canva presentation. Everything I feel like takes time that's worth it.

00:24:06.89
Aaron
And getting rid of the idea early on that I'm just going to be found and people are going to ask me to do stuff. Get rid of that idea. stop Stop doing stuff for to be found.

00:24:20.00
Aaron
Start doing stuff like actively to pursue.

00:24:24.36
Seth Macey
Yeah, that's a great.

00:24:25.07
Aaron
I think is a good point.

00:24:26.99
Seth Macey
Yeah, there was sub sub sub points in there.

00:24:28.87
Aaron
Sub, sub, sub, sub points.

00:24:30.68
Seth Macey
But yeah, getting out of your head that value is currency is is true. ah Maybe maybe that's where you want it to lead.

00:24:36.42
Aaron
Yeah.

00:24:38.27
Seth Macey
But there's a lot of ways you can exchange your time for different different currencies.

00:24:42.91
Aaron
Especially starting off.

00:24:44.76
Seth Macey
and or different means of value, especially starting off. And I think, I think for both of us, a lot of our successes come from pitching low risk things.

00:24:55.60
Aaron
Yeah.

00:24:56.51
Seth Macey
Let me pitch something very low risk where if cause the other person doesn't know who I am. The other company doesn't know who I am. I like to present ideas where, If I end up being absolutely terrible and not doing any of the things I say I'm going to do, it's not much of a loss for them.

00:25:16.28
Seth Macey
For example, those blogs, if I didn't do those, what's it to them?

00:25:20.85
Aaron
yeah

00:25:23.54
Seth Macey
Give people a reason not to say no.

00:25:26.87
Aaron
Yeah. Yeah.

00:25:27.95
Seth Macey
Right. if If I go right off the bat to somebody in and that i I don't really know well or I don't have a really solid proof of concept working somewhere else or doing something else, if I go to them and and try and pitch a $10,000 gig and they have no idea who I am, we have no relationship.

00:25:52.96
Aaron
yeah

00:25:53.29
Seth Macey
that's That's high risk. Look for low risk and beginning for the other party and for you.

00:25:56.09
Aaron
right

00:26:00.30
Aaron
No.

00:26:01.14
Seth Macey
That's the other thing that I think people get confused touching on the free work side of stuff. Using the blog thing, again, as an example, as a means to build off of small momentum.

00:26:13.62
Seth Macey
If that took me two hours to write and it never got post posted, is that a big loss for me?

00:26:22.28
Aaron
no

00:26:23.06
Seth Macey
No, if I did, if I spent 20 hours creating reels for free as a proof of concept, is that a big loss for me?

00:26:34.87
Aaron
It's getting there. I mean, it's a lot of work.

00:26:35.90
Seth Macey
i would say so. I would say so.

00:26:37.14
Aaron
Yeah.

00:26:37.50
Seth Macey
Like you could, that's, that's, that scale is hundred percent subjective and going to be different from everyone.

00:26:43.48
Aaron
Yeah.

00:26:45.01
Seth Macey
But I feel like you'll get that feeling in your gut where you're like, this is too much.

00:26:49.25
Aaron
Right.

00:26:49.86
Seth Macey
And if you don't have that feeling right now, you'll build it, I think. I can't tell the amount of times where I'm like, I gave away way too much stuff.

00:26:54.31
Aaron
Yeah. Yeah.

00:26:59.97
Aaron
Yeah, and that that changes, right?

00:27:00.45
Seth Macey
Because I was trying to impress. Because I was trying to impress.

00:27:02.27
Aaron
That changes. That changes as you get more mature in the industry, i think, and you start to value your time differently. But I think in the beginning, if you're if you're willing to work and you feel like it's a good investment, even if it's 20 hours or 50 hours or a ton of work, if you feel like there's a good chance that this could be picked up or change your life in a better way,

00:27:29.61
Aaron
then especially in the beginning, you might have to, you might have to take some losses, think overall to get to where you want to be.

00:27:39.24
Seth Macey
Yeah.

00:27:39.83
Aaron
So that that changes. And sometimes you go, you go, you learn these currencies, you learn these different values and you can go back on them. ah For example, if I want to go to vacation in ah let's just say Washington state, if I want to go visit some of the national parks there,

00:27:56.60
Aaron
I have a skillset of charging rental places for deliverables. I can go back, I can go back on that and say, this is what I normally do.

00:28:03.72
Seth Macey
You're pretty good at

00:28:10.42
Aaron
i will I would love the opportunity to make this vacation happen for me. And I will do this in in exchange for the ability to stay here.

00:28:21.08
Aaron
So the value to me is like, I don't need to get paid, but I would love to not pay for this trip. And I have a skillset that maybe I can barter with. So making it again, very little loss for them.

00:28:34.17
Aaron
in terms of, okay, we're we're giving away a day or two, um but we might get some great content and normally we'd have to pay for great content.

00:28:34.40
Seth Macey
yeah

00:28:42.79
Aaron
let's Let's take our chances here. We're both kind of taking our chances here.

00:28:45.65
Seth Macey
Right.

00:28:46.15
Aaron
so

00:28:46.43
Seth Macey
Right. Yeah. I mean, what you're talking about too is like, I guess this is also sometimes a weird way to think about it that like cutting expenses can also cutting expenses is as, as as effective for your bottom line is making more innocent.

00:28:58.29
Aaron
Yeah. Yeah. I want to I want to get my, oh this I did this before.

00:29:00.94
Seth Macey
Right. Yeah.

00:29:04.27
Aaron
Like I wanted to go through dog training with my dog. Dog training is very expensive.

00:29:08.84
Seth Macey
Yeah.

00:29:09.92
Aaron
And I was like, it's very specific what I kind of want. to be done his obedience and his walking and his demeanor is, is dealable. Like I can deal with it. It's, it's fine.

00:29:21.02
Aaron
It's, it was a very specific thing with like how he greets dogs and gets into really husky play.

00:29:26.60
Seth Macey
Aggressive.

00:29:26.56
Aaron
I just wanted to, but the, the price of it was like, God, it's a lot of money to do that. Oh, I have a skill. Hey, you have a website. Can I do photography, videography for your website?

00:29:40.10
Aaron
And we came up with a deliverable idea. So it made it possible.

00:29:43.09
Seth Macey
Yeah.

00:29:45.84
Aaron
I got something good out of it.

00:29:47.45
Seth Macey
You're bartering, you're bartering for services and goods for things that you can actually use.

00:29:47.43
Aaron
And yeah,

00:29:51.68
Aaron
yeah it's worth, it's worth a dollar amount, whatever it is, and you can barter with it. So I think

00:29:55.53
Seth Macey
To me, that's when barters make the most sense is when i would actually, I've said this so many times, I would actually buy this or this improves my quality of life. This is something I actually pay for.

00:30:03.22
Aaron
Yeah.

00:30:04.72
Seth Macey
Let's trade.

00:30:08.09
Aaron
Yes.

00:30:09.46
Seth Macey
All right, so so far we've got ah you recognizing early on that you wanted and needed to essentially fill your tool belt with different skills because you felt it would serve you. And we have building off of small momentum.

00:30:26.80
Aaron
Yes, sir.

00:30:27.60
Seth Macey
All right, you're up.

00:30:30.98
Aaron
My next one is, i think outside of the photography box, but talking and meeting anyone and everyone that you can and letting them know, not obnoxiously, but letting them know some of your skill sets.

00:30:53.17
Seth Macey
Said by an introvert.

00:30:55.27
Aaron
Yeah.

00:30:55.92
Seth Macey
Explain that before you get into it.

00:30:58.52
Aaron
And it's, it's, Looking back Monday morning quarterbacking a little bit, a high percent of my paid gigs have come through networking and connections that aren't direct pitches for, Hey, i want to work for your company and and do this.

00:31:04.89
Seth Macey
Okay.

00:31:17.26
Seth Macey
Okay. Pause. Freeze frame. I'm going to be, going to interruptive, but in a good way. What does the indirect cell look like in a

00:31:31.82
Seth Macey
friendly environment? I mean, I don't know when this is happening. I know you love the Birch Hill Tavern.

00:31:35.73
Aaron
Yeah. Great. Mm-hmm.

00:31:37.47
Seth Macey
Tell me, tell us what the indirect, this is an art.

00:31:37.50
Aaron
great

00:31:41.45
Seth Macey
This is a bit of a dance, right? This isn't a science. This isn't a formula. Tell us a bit of the nuance of how that What you mentioned, the the bringing up your work and what you do, the indirect sell, how you're doing that in a way that's effective and isn't making the conversation about you and it's actually leading to ah beneficial outcomes in terms of your photography.

00:32:07.45
Aaron
yes so there birchill tavern is a great example to take this from fruition to the end now i've lived in my house for about a decade this is the restaurant that's right down the street i've been there a hundred times if not a thousand probably so if you've been there twice from canada i must have been there a million times

00:32:20.92
Seth Macey
like I've been there twice, haven't I? Once. if

00:32:32.08
Aaron
So in that you develop relationships. I don't go in there and say, hey everyone, have an important an announcement. Like my reel went viral today or yeah.

00:32:42.48
Seth Macey
m

00:32:43.53
Aaron
um

00:32:44.44
Seth Macey
Clinking glasses.

00:32:44.58
Aaron
are Look at this photo I just took. No, but sometimes conversations, if you hang out with people and you become friendly with the staff, sometimes conversations come out where it's like,

00:32:56.91
Aaron
it just gets brought up. And you're like, oh, look at these. You went to Alaska. ah We're going to like conversations come up. So through that, you develop relationships.

00:33:08.40
Aaron
I was able to hang my work in Birch Hill Tavern. That's, that's one step. Now people are like, oh, that's the guy that he's here. Sometimes that's his stuff. Oh, cool.

00:33:21.20
Aaron
So a financial firm

00:33:23.88
Seth Macey
Hang on.

00:33:23.85
Aaron
ah

00:33:24.44
Seth Macey
You've skipped an important step because there's a lot of people listening who would be like, oh, hell yeah, that's super cool to go from patron to patron who has his work up.

00:33:34.64
Aaron
Right. Sorry. So the bar manager and owner now at the time had artwork up. And I, for a long time, was nicely knocking on the door.

00:33:46.70
Aaron
I wasn't pushing. I wasn't. But I was like, listen, I have i have a lot. like i feel like with this birch birch trees, like it's a woody tavern. was like, I feel like my decor, I'm confident, would do kind of well in here. It would fit.

00:34:02.34
Aaron
It's not... over the top it's and we don't have to fill the whole place up but i have some nice prints and i could fill at least a couple of these walls that are pretty blank right now or at the moment uh this was during a redesign so I sent her a bunch of my favorite photos.

00:34:22.54
Aaron
I divided them by seasons because I thought maybe we could do this seasonally. ah She picked out the ones she likes. I had some, I had to print a few. I took ah and investment on myself again.

00:34:34.03
Seth Macey
Low

00:34:34.10
Aaron
So not asking them for payments. I spent a whole day hanging.

00:34:37.55
Seth Macey
risk, right?

00:34:38.62
Aaron
What's that?

00:34:39.26
Seth Macey
Low risk.

00:34:39.88
Aaron
Yeah. Spent a whole day hanging things up, putting my cards out. So now my, my work is there now. It's even a better conversation starter for when I'm there.

00:34:51.91
Seth Macey
Yeah, you're the guy now.

00:34:51.87
Aaron
And it's not, it's not, yeah, it's not even by me.

00:34:53.03
Seth Macey
You're the guy.

00:34:54.85
Aaron
I'm not trying to be the guy. It was almost a little embarrassing, but people would talk about it in front of me to the bartender or whatnot.

00:34:57.14
Seth Macey
Hey, man.

00:35:01.41
Aaron
And she would make connections. So now I'm making connections. One of the ah waitresses who you've met, ah Sydney, I can use her name, ah was working for a financial firm, a different one at the time.

00:35:16.67
Aaron
And this guy loved my stuff and had all these grand plans of how I was going to come in and ah do a lot of content for their firm and their office.

00:35:29.00
Seth Macey
Mm-hmm.

00:35:29.49
Aaron
Cool. Great. This connection has made a connection. Sydney now works for a different financial firm, but she remembers those back and forths, those pitches, those storyboards that I created and suggested me for the financial firm that she is working with now.

00:35:43.79
Aaron
So long story short, those connections trickled down to this really nice opportunity from talking and networking and showing your stuff and letting people know, yes, you are a photographer. Yes, you're capable of certain things. Yes, you can do certain things.

00:36:03.38
Aaron
So that went that way. Part two of this story, everyone knows I work a lot with Telefunken and their microphones. It's a microphone company out of Connecticut. The bartender and owner of Birchill Tavern is really good friends with a singer songwriter who also is a worker, a manager, head up guy at Telefunken.

00:36:25.97
Aaron
So that connection, she got me ah ah contact for him. And I had this idea with their wooden mics I've talked about before to photograph them in nature amongst the woods.

00:36:36.92
Aaron
and had this connection between the three of us. So because I know someone, this one person, the tentacles that she knows, it's I'm in her mind as like a photographer that she knows that's local.

00:36:50.24
Aaron
So when things come up, Maybe yes or no, my name gets brought up and these things have happened. So reaching out to a lot of different people and finding different, oh, oh you keep it in mind, like, oh, that person owns a a treeing company.

00:37:08.63
Aaron
That'd be cool. Like drone work while they're, they're doing tree cutting. I'll keep that in mind. You keep like all these little avenues in mind.

00:37:14.18
Seth Macey
Right. Reference.

00:37:16.36
Aaron
And when an idea starts, you have this connection. That's not just a rando person being like, Hey, uh, I want to do photography for your tree and company.

00:37:27.05
Aaron
You have this connection.

00:37:27.24
Seth Macey
right

00:37:29.14
Aaron
Hey, we go to Birch Hill Tavern together. I know you own the tree and company, from town. Uh, you might, you might recognize me. I have this idea. it's a whole different pitch when there's like comfort and reference to it.

00:37:41.08
Seth Macey
reference

00:37:42.66
Aaron
Yes.

00:37:44.92
Seth Macey
Very good.

00:37:46.40
Aaron
So that's my number two is, is

00:37:47.61
Seth Macey
All from having the boldness to suggest that your work should be on the wall.

00:37:54.52
Aaron
yeah.

00:37:55.23
Seth Macey
Maybe they're all from, but it's, you have a permanent gallery that everybody in there can attach to your face and to your personality and to.

00:37:55.20
Aaron
And

00:38:04.57
Aaron
Yep. Know whose work's up there now? Matt from our trip in Alaska. All his Alaska stuff.

00:38:10.59
Seth Macey
Awesome.

00:38:11.40
Aaron
Yeah, which is kind of cool to be like, hey, that's I was on that trip.

00:38:16.67
Seth Macey
Hey buddy, that's my turf. Yeah.

00:38:18.51
Aaron
ah Yeah, that's I have that photo.

00:38:20.05
Seth Macey
Yeah.

00:38:21.33
Aaron
No, but it's ah it's cool to see and to be like, wow, that's from our trip and he's his stuff's beautifully displayed ah in a restaurant. So shout out to Matt.

00:38:33.68
Seth Macey
that's very cool. Uh, I think I asked this at the beginning. We don't need to go too much into this, but, uh,

00:38:43.54
Seth Macey
And maybe I think about the whole introvert extrovert thing in the wrong way, but is it difficult for you to bring yourself up in conversation? How can people get over that? People often struggle to talk about themselves in a way that feels right.

00:38:57.01
Aaron
Yeah, all I can say is the more you do it, the more you put yourself out there, the easier it gets. A lot of it comes with my my age.

00:39:09.22
Aaron
It was not that easy at 20. It was not that easy in my teens. It was even harder. ah As a kid, it was even harder. to i would send my brother to go ask the the waiter waitress for an extra catch-up.

00:39:23.58
Aaron
like I was not... ah was not I was shy. I was shy. I was quiet. I still am. I still have a bit of that, but.

00:39:32.74
Seth Macey
You have moments where you just, you float off into the ether.

00:39:38.08
Aaron
Yeah.

00:39:38.78
Seth Macey
I don't really know how to describe them They're like Aaron gazes.

00:39:38.93
Aaron
Inner.

00:39:41.72
Aaron
Inner. um um Inner.

00:39:44.37
Seth Macey
and And then I'll, I'll say something to you and you kind of like come back to earth. It's very peculiar.

00:39:51.84
Aaron
I'm often thinking. ah But yeah, as you get older, what's that?

00:39:57.32
Seth Macey
You though, man, like I like being humorous. Just, I don't know, maybe in your sense, just having, I like being bold. I know this isn't advice to somebody who's shy, but sometimes just being unhinged and goofy can, can help you a lot and start a conversation.

00:40:13.78
Seth Macey
ah these walls are looking pretty bare, huh? You know, maybe not.

00:40:16.87
Aaron
and And comfort. am i Am I going into a brand new restaurant and pitching my work? To be honest, no. like i I felt very comfortable there. Like I said, I've been there a lot of times.

00:40:27.17
Seth Macey
Right.

00:40:29.20
Aaron
Basically friends with the the staff. It's where I take my son for dinner. It's the easy place to go. It's right down the street. I love the food. It's a great place. ah So there's a comfort there, which is basically cheating, but it allowed me to...

00:40:47.16
Aaron
you know, have the confidence, I guess, to, well, it's it's not the same as me saying, or Seth saying, go pitch your work to, you know, 10 restaurants in your town, people you don't know.

00:40:49.00
Seth Macey
guys cheating. not cheating.

00:40:58.74
Seth Macey
Yeah, but maybe that's not efficient. I think that's the point I want to make. That's the point I made by asking this question. like Maybe that's not efficient at all. Why would you not, in this instance, take the path of least resistance?

00:41:09.70
Aaron
Oh, I would.

00:41:10.28
Seth Macey
feel like

00:41:10.46
Aaron
Yeah.

00:41:11.02
Seth Macey
yeah and I feel like a lot of times people try to discredit the success of others when there's a connection or when there's, ah you know you said you said, I have a connection.

00:41:22.23
Seth Macey
It'd be the wrong thought press process for people listening to go, oh, well that's why. hey that's part of this whole thing. this That's part of this whole.

00:41:30.73
Aaron
that's why it's my most important point yeah

00:41:32.99
Seth Macey
That's maybe the most important part. People hire people they like, people they get along with, not necessarily the most skilled person.

00:41:42.76
Aaron
right

00:41:43.01
Seth Macey
want to like I would want to work with somebody i get along with who's not as great as the person I don't know who could be a total asshole or who is.

00:41:50.42
Aaron
Yeah, and there's skin in the game. I think when there's skin in the game, to your point earlier, where it's like, what do they have to lose? If I'm some random guy from South Dakota working with someone from Connecticut and they're shipping me out, stuff like there's a who is this person? They could be making it completely up.

00:42:08.35
Aaron
But if it's... it's like, oh, that's that person's friend. And they know me through there. They have a responsibility to that friend to at least communicate and be a straight shooter with me. Otherwise it wrecks their reputation.

00:42:22.26
Aaron
So there's a, there's a little bit of a, they're, they're, they're on the line for credibility as well.

00:42:29.16
Seth Macey
Yeah.

00:42:29.85
Aaron
And I think that makes it a little easier to be like, okay, well at least there's a connection and like this person's going to be harder off blowing me off because I could see them around at any time.

00:42:41.53
Seth Macey
Yeah. And I don't think it means that you need to only go and try and do work for people you have connections with. I mean, there's something to be said for the cold pitch, but you know, what I'm saying is don't let pride get in the way.

00:42:51.71
Aaron
Yeah.

00:42:58.10
Seth Macey
right

00:42:59.13
Aaron
Yeah. And again, the easy, the easy in Now, if I did go to the other restaurants,

00:43:03.16
Seth Macey
Yeah. Yeah.

00:43:06.07
Aaron
Hey, my stuff was up at Birch Hill Tavern for the better part of a year. ah We had great success. Now it's like, oh, okay, there's a concept behind it, right?

00:43:16.58
Seth Macey
yeah

00:43:16.61
Aaron
but i had a connection or not. Now I have a portfolio item of doing that and having some success.

00:43:23.11
Seth Macey
yeah

00:43:24.15
Aaron
So now I can take it to those cold pitches and have a proof of concept.

00:43:29.87
Seth Macey
Yeah, I like it. I like it a lot. Okay, my last point for part one of this episode.

00:43:33.90
Aaron
Yes. do it.

00:43:37.59
Seth Macey
I think I have just instinctually or naturally, this hasn't been something I've really had to work on, which I'm grateful for. I'm very much and always have been somebody who has no expectations for the future.

00:43:56.17
Seth Macey
Now, I don't want people to confuse that with desire, right? Of course, we all have things and outcomes we want to have happen.

00:44:06.58
Seth Macey
But I don't expect them to, or I don't expect the trajectory of a certain portion of my life or a certain project I'm working on to lead to a very specific outcome.

00:44:19.41
Seth Macey
I very much find it,

00:44:25.75
Seth Macey
what's the word? I find it to be not stressful by continuing to progress and move forward and improve and look for opportunity without putting in a box what needs to happen.

00:44:45.03
Seth Macey
I like to, I use the saying, I like to follow my nose.

00:44:52.07
Aaron
Yeah.

00:44:53.47
Seth Macey
And I feel why that has been something I consider that I've got right gotten right is because it has avoided needless frustration when something very specific i and if if something very specific I had envisioned in my head over and over and over again didn't happen.

00:45:14.16
Seth Macey
That can be very unsettling. It can be very morale-crushing. Maybe even to a point where that happens enough times in a row that you just stop what you're doing.

00:45:26.84
Seth Macey
So again, this isn't me saying you should have zero expectations, but this is again another stylistic approach that works for me. I think it also has played to my personality type that loves novelty. I love not knowing what's coming.

00:45:44.86
Aaron
Right.

00:45:45.62
Seth Macey
And it's fun to... Continue to follow leads and build off of opportunity and gain that momentum. Like I talked about in my first point and see what happens and,

00:46:02.57
Seth Macey
and look back a month, three weeks, a year and be like, that was a pretty crazy path.

00:46:11.22
Seth Macey
What, what went well, where can I improve? Where did I find joy?

00:46:20.10
Seth Macey
How can I take those concepts and apply them so that I continue to have those kinds of experiences that I love and that serve me well?

00:46:30.69
Seth Macey
TLDR, I feel like when you have very, very specific expectations that don't get met, it is can be it can be a gigantic letdown.

00:46:44.34
Aaron
Yep, it can be for sure.

00:46:47.33
Seth Macey
Do you operate this way?

00:46:47.63
Aaron
and Yeah.

00:46:48.21
Seth Macey
Do you operate? dick Do you have a very specific? I mean, I've I've always envisioned people in school who are like high school. um going to be a doctor.

00:46:58.66
Aaron
yeah

00:46:59.25
Seth Macey
You check up 10 years later, they're a doctor.

00:47:03.96
Seth Macey
How? I mean, I'm that's very amazing to me that some people are wired that way and can and do that. But I also feel for people who say I'm going to be a doctor.

00:47:15.23
Seth Macey
And then variable X, Y, and Z happens. That's perhaps entirely out of their control that eliminates that possibility that they've structured their whole future identity around. And I feel like that can be really upending, I guess is what I'm saying.

00:47:30.50
Seth Macey
So how do you relate to to this point?

00:47:34.08
Aaron
i ah I agree. And ah feel like I'm on the same page with you. I feel like life, right? I'm at the understanding of life can go in bajillion different directions. And as much as we think we have control over those outcomes, those expectations, you just never know what's going to happen.

00:47:54.25
Aaron
So there is a sense of gentle, maybe gentle guiding. Of course you want to strive towards something. You don't want complete apathy. Uh, but understanding a deep understanding that none of this is guaranteed, you know, and ah feel like, especially with photography photography,

00:48:06.31
Seth Macey
Thank

00:48:18.66
Aaron
the business aspect of it. I've talked about ah sort of indifference, which my environment has created even more so of what you're saying, I think in a way of like, it's of like being at the casino and you had a great start in art. So you have the money that you went with and you now won $10,000 worth of chips.

00:48:44.69
Seth Macey
Mm-hmm.

00:48:45.10
Aaron
So now you can play kind of aggressive and not be too mad. If you put the the starting money in your pocket, you're not touching that. You've promised. You're not going to lose a thing here.

00:48:58.38
Aaron
You go, now I can be a little bit more aggressive. I'm not playing to not lose. I can play to win. I can take some chances. I can go for things. The no's don't bother me as much.

00:49:11.06
Aaron
I could just move on to the next one. I can do the best that I can. And if it doesn't work out, okay, I will learn from it and move on. And no matter what ends up happening, but I feel like that release in,

00:49:22.59
Aaron
and control release and holding on and gripping too tight, uh, can set you free and allow you to bounce and move through the current.

00:49:37.49
Aaron
Uh, you said last time I couldn't talk about golf, but

00:49:37.57
Seth Macey
Yes.

00:49:41.17
Aaron
This reminds me of, again, the symbolism of golf in life. I wrote an article when I was into golf and I basically had the golfer's mindset. ah What's it called? Blog blog posts.

00:49:56.23
Aaron
And one of my posts was when you grip too tightly to the club because you're trying to not lose the ball is when you lose the ball. you you're not swinging freely.

00:50:08.09
Aaron
You're not letting everything release through and allowing everything to unfold and the ball to fly. If you're holding tight, you don't release and the ball slices out to the right.

00:50:19.80
Aaron
So a lot of golfers, when they have danger to the right, they hold on a little tighter trying to control and aim it, And that creates it going right to where it does not want to go, into the into the woods, into the right.

00:50:28.50
Seth Macey
All right.

00:50:33.91
Aaron
Instead of just saying, the best thing I can do is let this go and keep going through my process and seeing what happens. But trying to control it, trying to will it down the middle creates the opposite effect.

00:50:51.52
Aaron
And it reminds me of what you're saying is kind of like this idea of, I can't need this gig to come through because my anxiety in pitching will come through.

00:50:59.83
Seth Macey
Right.

00:51:03.89
Aaron
My anxiety in the emailing will come through. My anxiety overall all might translate to the CEO where he's like, this dude's a little nutty. Like I'm not, I'm not feeling this, this vibe. I'm not feeling this energy.

00:51:18.75
Aaron
Uh, yeah.

00:51:19.47
Seth Macey
Yeah, well, you're getting into a scarcity brain verse versus abundant brain.

00:51:21.62
Aaron
So it all,

00:51:23.86
Seth Macey
I mean, when you yeah have abundancy, you're you're you're naturally more confident versus when you're you you have scarcity, you're fearful, and that comes through.

00:51:31.55
Aaron
So how do you defend if you are, I mean, let me see how to phrase this. If you're trying not to dwell too much in the world of expectations, how do you not drift into the world of apathy?

00:51:48.78
Seth Macey
What do you mean by that? As in not care?

00:51:52.39
Aaron
Yeah. Not care about, ah just, so if we have a, if we're into a process, if we're into, okay, so we're, ah we're working out and we're eating healthy all day.

00:52:03.54
Aaron
Our expectations might be if I suppose if you're truly,

00:52:11.32
Aaron
okay with the world and let go, your expectations might be, that is, that is all I care about. I don't care about the scale. I don't care about what I look like in the mirror. Uh, I just want a healthy lifestyle. So for me, I'm going to exercise and eat really well.

00:52:25.98
Aaron
I've let go of the results. However.

00:52:29.85
Seth Macey
I think that's when you get the results. That would be my argument. I feel like what you're talking about is process versus result focus, which is what we talk about all the time. There's the saying, if you focus on the fundamentals, right?

00:52:38.49
Aaron
yeah

00:52:42.67
Seth Macey
If you focus, let's use a sports analogy, football, if you just focus on your footwork, focus on your speed, focus on where you're throwing, it like how you're throwing the ball, you focus on the fundamentals of anything, the scoreboard takes care of itself. Right?

00:52:58.07
Seth Macey
but if i'm if If I'm on the football field and I stare at the scoreboard forever and I put all my focus on that, that's not putting me up points.

00:52:58.25
Aaron
Yep. Can I?

00:53:05.77
Aaron
yep

00:53:06.25
Seth Macey
What's putting me at points is focusing on building my skills and when it's time to perform, just focusing on doing the action and having trust in my training and my learning.

00:53:18.00
Aaron
yeah

00:53:20.14
Seth Macey
So in your example, the focus is on doing what I know I need to do and letting go of an expectation on how long this will take, um expectations on where I'll be at compared to others.

00:53:20.26
Aaron
can i

00:53:36.82
Seth Macey
So the the defense, what you asked for, to avoid just not, to to to letting go too far, I think is what you're saying. Letting go and accepting to a point where you just don't care what happens, I think is to have a desired general outcome in mind and focus on the things you know you need to do to get there and

00:54:02.80
Aaron
Yeah, true.

00:54:05.27
Seth Macey
reward yourself for showing up just for doing the thing. but i mean, I was talking, about I was talking, we talk about this sometimes. If one person listens to the show or if 1 million people listen to the show, it doesn't take away the fact that you and I have sat down for 277 weeks in a row.

00:54:22.41
Seth Macey
That's how I think about things all the time.

00:54:24.91
Aaron
yeah true

00:54:27.41
Seth Macey
Anyways, go ahead. i know you're going to say something.

00:54:29.39
Aaron
I was just going to ask permission for one more golf analogy.

00:54:35.29
Seth Macey
That was golf club, not a whip. Go ahead.

00:54:38.67
Aaron
Again, for the analogy, maybe people can understand, but, or it's just interesting. especially in new England, you don't play golf during the winter and there's a thing called spring golf. It's a little sloppy. You haven't swung in a long time, but there is the myth of this the spring golfer.

00:54:53.17
Aaron
And there's also another saying that's like fear the sick and injured golfer. And they go to the same thing or they, they touch upon the same theory. The spring golfer often comes out and has one of their best rounds of the year.

00:55:08.49
Aaron
Why is that?

00:55:10.41
Seth Macey
Yeah, well, I already know the answer and I can speak from i can speak from quick anecdote.

00:55:15.62
Aaron
go

00:55:18.05
Seth Macey
i The last time I had played golf was around the very start of the podcast, start of my journey and interest into like develop practicing mindfulness and developing...

00:55:31.49
Seth Macey
I'm just improving my mental health. Right. And then I think last year, so four years later, after starting this journey and feeling like I've learned a thing or two, I hit the links, it went out on the course.

00:55:43.07
Seth Macey
Right. it'd have been four years. ah I had been shooting like hundreds and just not great scores. I remember getting, you would get frustrated all the time. You shank it left. It's embarrassing, whatever. Just kind of the wrong mentality. The the the ah mentality that I felt that I feel like I've gotten out of for the most part.

00:56:04.40
Aaron
Yeah. Yeah.

00:56:04.92
Seth Macey
So last year, or maybe it was two years ago. It doesn't matter. Several years have passed. Go to the course. I'm thinking to myself, this could be bad, but whatever. I shot my best score in my entire life.

00:56:17.27
Aaron
yeah

00:56:18.09
Seth Macey
Because i was just in a different state of mind, in my isn in my opinion. Loose, didn't care about the income. i was happy to be outside on a nice day with people i cared about, swinging a club, chatting, having a good time.

00:56:31.27
Aaron
yeah

00:56:32.58
Seth Macey
I remember every time walking up to the ball and just saying, I'm just going to hit it. You know, I have my swing is my swing. I have not practiced at all. Like,

00:56:40.06
Aaron
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

00:56:40.69
Seth Macey
I'm just going to go hit the ball. And it was the best score I've ever shot in my life.

00:56:44.66
Aaron
yeah

00:56:44.76
Seth Macey
So why the spring golfer is good is is it's it's ram it's representative of that story I've just described.

00:56:53.64
Aaron
yeah The spring golfer lets go of all the shoulds, all the should-bes, all the practice they've done. I've practiced for three months in a row.

00:57:01.06
Seth Macey
Right.

00:57:02.85
Aaron
I should be in the 80s. I should be in the 70s. We go out in the spring and go, it's beautiful to be with friends. It's beautiful weather out. It's finally warm. I'm probably going to suck today.

00:57:15.32
Aaron
you let You allow all options to happen. And with that, there's a looseness, there's a freeness to what you're doing and ah sort of disconnect between the result and just enjoying what's actually happening.

00:57:29.16
Seth Macey
great

00:57:29.49
Aaron
And then you add up your score and you're like, huh, I did really well. And that is the then the dagger, the silver dagger that creates

00:57:37.56
Seth Macey
The irony.

00:57:38.75
Aaron
that creates the rest of your year where now I should shoot 75. Next time I come out, I just shot a spring 75. I should, this going be my best year ever.

00:57:51.67
Aaron
And you start tightening up.

00:57:53.41
Seth Macey
Yes.

00:57:53.92
Aaron
You start being attached to the result versus everything else. And the same with the sick or injured golfer is a saying in the PGA tour, because when someone's sick or injured, their focus changes.

00:58:06.60
Aaron
They don't feel good. Their mind's not in it. And they sort of let go and just, they're not as focused on how well they have to play. It's more like I want to protect my back today.

00:58:17.71
Aaron
So now I'm just swinging nice and easy. I'm letting it flow, whatever it may be. And they usually have really good rounds because their health kind of overshadows all that other expectation stuff.

00:58:27.42
Seth Macey
Right.

00:58:28.14
Aaron
And they're like, I, if I don't play well, it's because I was hurt. It kind of allows them to just see what happens.

00:58:35.14
Seth Macey
Yeah. Letting and go of it.

00:58:35.72
Aaron
It's very interesting.

00:58:36.73
Seth Macey
I was going to say just to the the the overarching theme in one sentence is that when you let go, it's liberating.

00:58:43.75
Aaron
Yeah.

00:58:44.05
Seth Macey
It's freeing.

00:58:46.74
Aaron
Yeah.

00:58:48.73
Seth Macey
All right.

00:58:48.84
Aaron
And, and same, so let's tie back to photography, like in any, in any sort of gig or allow yourself a little bit of room to yeah.

00:58:59.81
Seth Macey
permission. Yeah.

00:59:00.84
Aaron
Permission to just really enjoy being there.

00:59:03.97
Seth Macey
Yeah.

00:59:03.99
Aaron
Go, go with it. Don't worry about, Oh my God, I hope they love this. I hope they love this. It's going make you tight.

00:59:10.49
Seth Macey
I'm here, I'm doing it. I've been hired. This is awesome. I mean, obviously you just can't fight nerves, but that that's that's a helpful antidote to overwhelming anxiety.

00:59:13.46
Aaron
Yeah.

00:59:20.15
Seth Macey
And I wanted to add the caveat. This is not ah suggesting that you don't practice and you don't learn and you don't improve. i think it's suggesting that when it's time to perform at anything, you accept that However much you've trained or practiced, that's where you're at. That's what you have.

00:59:36.47
Seth Macey
You're here. I'm going to show up and I'm going to do the best I can, but I'm not anticipating a certain outcome. Whatever happens, happens. And that's when it's so free. and

00:59:46.14
Aaron
Yep.

00:59:47.60
Seth Macey
All right, man. Part two next time.

00:59:49.70
Aaron
All right. Take care.

00:59:50.92
Seth Macey
All right. If you like this one, leave a rating review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify. We very much appreciate You can leave a comment too if there's something you resonated with or if there's something you want us to talk about or add to this list. So.

01:00:02.50
Seth Macey
Till next time.

01:00:02.58
Aaron
Awesome. Bye.