4 Mistakes We've Made as Photographers Pt. 2

Part two is here, and we’re bringing more reflections and lessons learned from our photography journeys. This time, we’re talking about the power of focusing on fewer, impactful goals, finding balance in your social media habits, and navigating the endless tug-of-war with perfectionism. With honest stories, practical advice, and relatable insights, this episode is packed with ideas to help you sharpen your focus and build a creative career on solid ground.

Expect to Learn:

• Why trying to do everything at once can dilute your efforts and hinder success
• How to let go of the need to overcomplicate or overdeliver
• How to recognize when you’re spreading yourself too thin 
• How to build a foundation in the correct order to grow efficiently as a photographer

Sponsor:

Thanks to WhiteWall for being our lead sponsor this episode! They're the top choice for photographers who want high-quality prints, with a variety of material options, and who want their work delivered fast in 9 days or less!

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Thanks for listening!
Go get shooting, go get editing, and stay focused.

@sethmacey
@mantis_photography
@thephotographermindset

Transcript

00:14.04
Seth Macey
My microphone set up today is ah little bit goofy. I don't have my boom arm, so I am currently using a giant Yeti. Is it the Rambler? What's the big one?

00:26.31
Aaron
I don't know.

00:26.73
Seth Macey
What's the ginormous one where it's too much liquid for anyone to possibly consume?

00:31.06
Aaron
Yeah, that is the pee your pants one.

00:31.77
Seth Macey
It's like the, it's, it's, it's the day drinking one.

00:36.79
Seth Macey
Yeah. Like 32 ounces perhaps. Anyways, that's what's supporting my microphone. Cause I don't have my fancy boom arm. People at this point are going to think that I'm just starting to do ridiculous things. Mustaches, microphones, and yetis just to get people to the YouTube to check it out. But I swear I'm just incompetent.

00:52.98
Aaron
This is not sponsored by Yeti. However, they're liking what they're seeing, we would have a conversation.

00:59.69
Seth Macey
um Aaron's referring to the mustache, not the nicely placed logo that was totally by accident.

01:05.72
Aaron
Yeah, if you want a face for your company, my guy, Seth, with his mustache.

01:11.17
Seth Macey
Thank you. Thanks very much.

01:12.53
Aaron
It's ready.

01:12.78
Seth Macey
well

01:14.89
Aaron
Go ahead.

01:15.06
Seth Macey
Today we're going to do part two of the some mistakes we've made. We were talking before we pressed record. I said, we were saying, like, maybe don't even think of the mistakes. Maybe just perhaps some realizations you've come to that you wish you had come to sooner or you a realization that you were maybe doing things not the best way you could have based on um reflecting and what you're doing now uh so we're going to continue this this will be the second part of the part of the two-part series and uh do i get to go first today

01:45.58
Aaron
Yes, sir.

01:47.02
Seth Macey
Okay. Okay. Well, I'm going to start with my first thing is going to be, i used to try to do little bit of everything to further my photography career.

02:03.56
Seth Macey
Instead of doing a lot of a few things, I'm going repeat that. I used to try to do a little bit of everything Instead of a lot of a few things. so in other words, I would just skim the surface 15 minutes here on Instagram, trying to interact with people 15 minutes here, building my website, et cetera, et cetera, to the point where I was doing like 20 different things a day, just skimming the surface and thinking that doing that over the course of a year would ah build up to great things. And of course, you know, I got further ahead than i where I was when I started.

02:39.75
Seth Macey
But in recent years, I've come to realize that I have been or had much more success and been much more productive and have headed in a direction that I preferred when I focused on maybe three things and dug into those way, way deeper and devoted way, way more of my time to those things.

03:01.25
Seth Macey
I've looking back realized that just doing trying to do everything you sort of just sit there and you spin your wheels and when you don't really dedicate a lot of time to a project let's call it a project let's say this is redoing your website or perhaps a project is client outreach if you only say I'm going to do 20 minutes a day of that, I personally, for me, I have not been able to gather enough momentum to really have successes on where I'm focusing compared to when um when i I say I'm going to dedicate three hours a day to just this one or two things.

03:44.63
Seth Macey
I was able to move quicker to where I wanted to get to. And this came with the, I guess it took time for me to realize that, and this used to bother me, that you're not going to be able to do everything. You're not going be able to do everything well. You're just simply not even going to be able to attempt to do everything. And if you try, you're going to be spread way too thin and you're going to get nowhere.

04:08.28
Seth Macey
And so that is something recently that has helped me a lot. And I will continue to elaborate on this point, but first I'd like to sort of hear what your, what your first thoughts are on this.

04:18.80
Aaron
Yeah, even with our podcasts, I think we realized a little bit ago that like we need help to do this, all the aspects of it really well.

04:28.74
Seth Macey
Right.

04:29.02
Aaron
or even pretty well. And we decided to get help and and create a team, thank you, Hillary, to create a team around us, a small team, but a team that can just take some of the weight and carry some of the weight ah so that we can focus on certain things a little bit more.

04:47.75
Aaron
If we only have 10 hours you know a week to put into it, which things do we want to put into and those all that time? um So I think, i mean, that's a pretty concrete example of how how we've done that recently, but in starting out, what do you see?

05:00.52
Seth Macey
Yeah.

05:06.19
Seth Macey
Well, to build off your example, I think people listening might say, okay, well, that's great. How do, how do I either a get to the point where I can build a team or if I'm not interested in building a team, how does it apply to me?

05:16.92
Seth Macey
Right.

05:17.56
Aaron
yeah

05:18.18
Seth Macey
Uh, so in the sense of how do I get to building a team, you mentioned Hillary, our social media girl, who's wonderful.

05:26.42
Seth Macey
I think we neglected our socials for a long time just because it it it was not possible to do a little bit of everything well, right? Or to the standard that we liked. I think either on purpose or by accident, we identified the most important things, which was recording weekly, good audio, getting it, you know, just basic fundamental stuff, getting...

05:49.89
Seth Macey
episodes out, finding guests. And I think we were able to recognize early that that is the foundation of that's the foundation of what we need to do to be able to build.

06:01.37
Seth Macey
Right. I think often we can confuse ourselves where we're, we're working on the third floor and we haven't finished building the ground floor and second floor. Right. And it doesn't make a lot of sense. um So that's what I would say to that. And then what was my other part? If you don't really want to build the team, I think the same thing still applies to the, to the analogy I just used.

06:21.40
Seth Macey
I think, you have to focus on a lot of the ground floor level stuff. Isn't exciting. Right. I mean, like we want to do the third floor, fourth floor stuff because it's, it's fancy, it's finishing touches. It's, it's the exciting stuff. It's editing photos, it's editing videos.

06:40.25
Seth Macey
ah Whereas, you know, slogging away, building website pages and maybe ground ground floor stuff. and And I think you, I like to think of it as like a building, literally a building in this sense where what does each floor need to have in order to build the next floor?

06:54.39
Aaron
Yeah. Mm-hmm.

07:01.50
Seth Macey
And perhaps it takes me 10 years to build this skyscraper. Perhaps it's a smaller building. And when I'm saying smaller, I'm just referring to different um maybe ambitions or goals you have comparing, comparing those as are using a simile as a building.

07:19.86
Seth Macey
And I guess understanding that it takes time based on those things. and And how do you want to, what, in what way makes the most sense to structure your build, right? For whatever you're doing.

07:32.32
Aaron
Yeah, can you reflect on that in terms of if you were to start over, where do you think you were he would put the eggs in the basket off the bat?

07:40.03
Seth Macey
Well, I know. So i'm ah I'm a firm believer of like the great things that the sum of it's the sum of the parts, right? The small things you do right, the 20 small things you do right add up adds up to, you know, something significant. Maybe on their own, those small things aren't significant.

07:56.62
Seth Macey
So I think looking back, there's a lot of small things that I would do differently. I think one of the, to get really micro here, I think one of the biggest errors I've had was making weekly to-do lists.

08:11.21
Seth Macey
Because i would, first of all, build this stupidly long list, right? And then i think on that list would be things that had no business being on a to-do list. Yeah.

08:28.55
Seth Macey
such as, um just in my example, this might this might not apply for everybody, workout. For me, that should I should just exercise when I'm able to, right?

08:39.54
Aaron
Mm-hmm.

08:39.63
Seth Macey
I enjoy that. um So what would happen is I would build this ginormous weekly to-do list. And of course, naturally, you knock off the easiest ones first, convince yourself that you're being efficient and productive.

08:53.39
Seth Macey
leave the super hard ones. Cause you say, Oh, I can just do it tomorrow. i have a full week to cross this off. Right. And then Wednesday rolls around. Oh, it's just not even halfway through the week. I can do this stuff Thursday, Friday, and then it' Saturday, Sunday.

09:04.78
Seth Macey
And, uh, you go, Oh no, this thing's piled up. Uh, I guess I'll have to attack it next week. And then next week becomes next week becomes next week becomes next week.

09:15.90
Seth Macey
So what I switched to, ah doing was, Having three really big things that I wanted to do for a year.

09:28.23
Seth Macey
Right. And then.

09:32.73
Seth Macey
I've mentioned this a bunch of times recently. Is that 3-2-1 method from Greg McKeown? I'm going to mention it again.

09:37.75
Aaron
Mm-hmm.

09:38.52
Seth Macey
It's like having one thing a day that I do for three hours that's a project that is essential that I get done that fits one of those buckets of the three things that I'm trying to do for the year, right?

09:53.88
Seth Macey
Two urgent things and important. They have to fit both of those categories. This is, I'm referring to my daily to-do list now. I prefer, I guess I should i skipped a bit. I prefer to do daily to-do lists as opposed to weekly.

10:07.65
Seth Macey
so two to three hours on a project that's essential to one of your three outcomes.

10:14.98
Seth Macey
Two urgent and important things. They have to fit both of those criteria. Otherwise they don't belong in category two. And then three maintenance things. So maintenance could be, um making dinner plans with that friend who's coming through town you haven't seen in a while.

10:28.53
Seth Macey
Right.

10:29.59
Aaron
Mm-hmm.

10:29.85
Seth Macey
I mean, I guess maybe that could be urgent and important because there's a timeframe restriction and you it's important that you have social interaction. It's going to be unique for everybody. So the, you know, one essential project, two urgent and important tasks and three maintenance tasks where the, maybe the one of the maintenance tests is working out.

10:46.61
Seth Macey
But anyways, I've just found that I've, that Having that has allowed me to not make lists that are impossible to get done.

10:57.15
Seth Macey
It's allowed me to focus on a few things, going back to the start of this conversation, and do them really, really well with my full focus.

11:08.25
Seth Macey
I used to be somebody who was just, and I still am, so I still struggle with attention. It can be very hard to get into a state of

11:18.55
Seth Macey
unbroken concentration right and i think having it laid out in front of me in a daily to-do list okay this is your project that you're working on for three hours a day it's just a nice reminder and then at the end of the day when I have a much more achievable list complete I feel much better going into the next day and I feel much better working towards what I'm trying to get to Uh, so that's one area. It's, it's a, it seems like a small thing, but you asked me to reflect, I would go back and tell myself andd be like, stop trying to do things on a weekly timeframe, switch to a smaller timeframe with the bigger timeframe in mind, bigger being the year or five years, et cetera.

11:56.60
Seth Macey
Does that sort of answer your question or do you have more?

11:56.77
Aaron
Mm-hmm. Well, in terms of specifics, like getting in, I mean, you're starting from zero, let's say.

12:04.12
Seth Macey
Okay.

12:06.77
Aaron
So getting an editing style, creating a portfolio, creating a website, learning video.

12:14.75
Seth Macey
Yeah.

12:14.77
Aaron
like the the the very specifics is there an order that you feel like to chip away at uh those like you said three basic things at a time versus trying to do everything what do you think some of the

12:27.37
Seth Macey
Well, here's an, yeah yeah, here's an example. At one point I was like, okay, I'm going to have a Facebook. I'm going to have a TikTok. I'm going to have an Instagram. I'm going to have a YouTube. I'm going to have, I'm going to post on LinkedIn.

12:38.61
Seth Macey
I'm going to do all these things. And then I ended up doing absolutely none. and And hats off to people who can manage all that stuff. But I found that the more stuff I added, the less I got done collectively yeah as opposed if I had just picked one thing.

12:53.59
Seth Macey
ah So I think I wasted a lot of time as a photographer thinking that it was important to be on every single social platform. Some people might disagree with me on that. For me, I thought it was just overwhelming and actually made me perform worse. It made my headspace worse.

13:09.65
Aaron
Yeah.

13:10.11
Seth Macey
um I think recently we've kind of touched on this.

13:19.86
Seth Macey
focusing on creating the production of being ah photographer videographer, you know, the reels you see where people are out and let's use a wildlife photographer example, where every reel is me lifting a 600 millimeter prime and I'm in the bush and not actually doing the thing.

13:38.66
Aaron
yeah my favorite

13:38.80
Seth Macey
i understand the marketing purpose for material like that, but I think you can get carried away in in thinking about how to best produce the act of being what you actually are, a photographer, as opposed to just going and taking images or videos or whatever it is that tickles you, right?

14:00.64
Aaron
yeah because at some point it's not right it's like he what's that called when you're acting the part

14:07.62
Seth Macey
I mean, yeah, and you can, yeah yeah LARPing?

14:11.00
Aaron
LARPing.

14:11.26
Seth Macey
like Live action role playing?

14:12.00
Aaron
ah

14:12.48
Seth Macey
Yeah. I mean, like if I'm a mechanic and I am filming myself every the life of a mechanic and it's like staged production stuff, but I'm never actually fixing cars or whatever, am I still, you you can lose touch with being a mechanic.

14:28.74
Seth Macey
I feel like it's happened to me and it's happened to you and I'm sure it's either, it's happened to a lot of people listening or in this community.

14:29.81
Aaron
Yeah, you have to. Mm-hmm.

14:35.86
Seth Macey
Maybe they know it, maybe they, don't know it but just kind of have lost touch of, you know, the roots

14:46.50
Aaron
Yeah. Uh, I think, I think that's very, very true. Uh, and you, you back to like, back to your point, that's kind of to my next point, which we'll get into, maybe it's a great transition, but, uh, I do think to be able to concentrate and focus on a handful of things and really try to get them done. There's a, there's an old saying that makes me laugh.

15:11.64
Aaron
Um, personally for personal reasons, but there's a saying that someone does a ah A plus job right to the middle, does a great job right to the middle.

15:23.63
Aaron
Like there's, it's a perfectionist saying, but they're not quite finishing anything.

15:26.21
Seth Macey
Right.

15:29.11
Aaron
They're just getting it like right to the middle. And as I look down on my, my floor, the grouting is changed colors painted on purpose well it's it's it's half done and it's been that way for ah very long time but it's those projects that like you're just not going to finish because maybe once they are finished you have to

15:37.56
Seth Macey
You got some grout to do.

15:44.33
Seth Macey
Right.

15:51.08
Aaron
Judge them. And if they're not finished, they're in a state of non-judgment. I'm not sure. ah But I do think it is good to be able to check things off the list and get to a good point.

16:01.63
Aaron
ah Get that website really stable, as fast and as hard as you can. And then audit it in a year and see if there's anything you want to add change to blah, blah, blah.

16:11.76
Aaron
Just keep it updated, whatever it may be ah versus kind of having ah a crappy website and half finished portfolio and a half finished social media presence and,

16:12.12
Seth Macey
Yeah. Yeah.

16:22.26
Seth Macey
yeah

16:22.95
Aaron
Uh, you're flaking out on jobs because you're, you're scatterbrained and all that. So I do agree. It's probably to me, it sounds like a better approach, uh, and something where you can like chip away and get super focused on certain things at a time versus trying to do everything.

16:40.15
Seth Macey
Yeah, I think you touched on a good point. and You phrased it really nicely, is that when you keep adding stuff, you're you're bound to begin forgetting what you've started.

16:54.03
Seth Macey
Perhaps it's a perfectionist thing, but perhaps it's also just a distraction thing. it just naturally distracts you when you have a hundred tabs open you it's tough to bring the most important tabs to the finish line partially because maybe you don't even know what's most important right and that's something i feel what's most important will always change and you're always figuring that out uh

17:00.21
Aaron
Yeah.

17:03.52
Aaron
Yeah. I feel attacked.

17:19.55
Aaron
Yeah. The, the, the start of the race and the end of the race is, is fun. Also the, the middle is where you have to keep going. And I think it is fun to like start new things or like, Oh, I was doing this project for a calendar, 12 months of, uh, birds of prey and we're three months in and I'm a little bored of it already.

17:42.89
Aaron
I'm going to start this video project.

17:43.07
Seth Macey
Yeah. That I've been thinking about.

17:45.05
Aaron
that'll be fun.

17:45.32
Seth Macey
Yeah.

17:45.57
Aaron
Let me learn video.

17:45.68
Seth Macey
Yeah.

17:47.26
Aaron
And then you're four months behind on your birds of prey calendar that you promise people and you're playing catch up. So yeah, I mean, there's probably lots of psychology and people are probably out there relating to parts of it or all of it, or, you know, I do think it does serve a purpose and it is exciting and shiny new things are exciting to, to add to the the list of things to do.

18:01.23
Seth Macey
Yeah.

18:11.34
Aaron
Definitely.

18:11.52
Seth Macey
Yeah. And I think, you know, the phone doesn't help either because when you're in that period of, let's say it's been three months and you're starting to kind of not be as excited about your bird of prey calendar, to use your example, and you see your friend on social media doing this really cool thing and you go oh, that's cool. I want to do something like that.

18:30.73
Seth Macey
oh that's cool i want to do something like that and it just spirals and continues and then absolutely nothing gets done right i mean we're we're partially describing add right uh which may be as artists a portion of us you know all kind of have but it can be i mean i

18:45.51
Aaron
but Yeah. Yeah. i was going to say the best, the best scenario is kind of what we found with Hillary. I feel like as an, as an artist, if, if I had someone to run my socials, my personal socials,

18:59.81
Seth Macey
I would do it in a heartbeat.

19:01.05
Aaron
how fun would that be to, they're just like, Hey, Hey, can you go shoot?

19:02.76
Seth Macey
ah I would do in a heartbeat because I would just, yeah, I just create.

19:06.42
Aaron
Right. Can you go shoot? Can you go? uh, we want some, we'd love some fall content. Oh, cool. Okay. Go get that. That's fun.

19:14.80
Seth Macey
Yeah, and I'll hop on every now and then in chat to people.

19:14.99
Aaron
You know, versus. Yeah.

19:18.14
Seth Macey
Right.

19:18.60
Aaron
I mean, it frees up. It just frees up headspace to focus on the things that you want to focus on, uh, and, and not be distracted by all the little things that you got to do.

19:31.31
Seth Macey
Yeah, yeah. So I think I would also tell myself, really dedicate a good portion of your time to learning how to focus better.

19:46.46
Seth Macey
Whether that's removing things, whether that's building certain routines, I feel like I'm getting a grasp on it the last year or so. But looking back at my beginner photographer self, I would say really find a way to build that ability to just have tremendous levels of focus at a few really important things and be okay with a lot of things going by the wayside, knowing that it's impossible to do everything well on your own.

20:26.30
Aaron
Yeah.

20:27.45
Seth Macey
To summarize the point.

20:29.37
Aaron
Yeah. Good point.

20:30.70
Seth Macey
All right.

20:32.19
Aaron
right. And it transitions nicely. ah and was going to do my maybe one, i Well, I was maybe on the maybe one, but now I'm going to do it because you kind of mentioned it and I'm not going to talk for 20 minutes about it.

20:43.65
Seth Macey
Like I did.

20:44.82
Aaron
No, that's fine. It was a new point. I've been, I just been harboring on this point for, I feel like a long time. ah and And maybe I'm going through ah metamorphosis with my relationship with social media.

20:57.71
Aaron
it's It's no surprise if you look back at how I interacted with social media four or five years ago compared to now are two different, completely different things.

21:10.24
Aaron
Now there's more social media to interact with. Like I have my music page, my band page, which I try to keep up with a little bit. I have my personal page, which I try to keep up with a little bit.

21:21.06
Aaron
I am active on the TPM page to help out or check things out or promote things as well. So there's a little bit more stuff, but it's lighter. Back when I started was my first bout with social media, about 35 years old. So I kind of grew up without it.

21:39.96
Aaron
And I definitely... got hooked by it. I'm not afraid to admit that, but very hooked into the whole thing. And if I look back at the real reasons to why, they're not terrible, but the real reasons to why of social media back then compared to now and what I use it for was really to ah find this craft, find this art, get validation for it, meet people,

22:03.21
Seth Macey
Thank you.

22:06.79
Aaron
connect with people, talk with people. This was COVID time too. It really did serve a purpose in in meeting people during a yeah relatively dark time in my life, which is fine to say.

22:21.72
Aaron
It's just what it was. Now, I feel like as I'm good and healthier and feeling good about things in life, I use it a little bit more sparingly.

22:33.75
Aaron
So did it, it's a double edged sword, it got me a lot of things in terms of propelling this semi career in photography, getting gigs, being able to have the confidence to reach out to companies meeting a lot of different people, I give it a lot of credit for that. But at the same time,

22:55.13
Aaron
We mentioned this last week. I feel like it took away. And now it's a part of my life, which post 35 years old wasn't.

23:02.98
Seth Macey
Thank you.

23:04.91
Aaron
And I can say there's pros and cons. post with without social media, there's a, there's a beautiful bubble that you can live in and do your thing, have a simple life.

23:18.42
Aaron
You still get notification. You still get the news. You still get, you still understand what's happening in the world, but you're not bombarded with a lot of stuff that you didn't necessarily ask for.

23:31.61
Aaron
And the psychological hook to it, it's a hundred percent addicting. There's, i mean, I I'd recognize behavioral stuff where you just open up and click it and look at stuff and you close it out and you literally click it right back, just like a behavioral, not even thinking conscious sort of thing.

23:51.07
Aaron
And I've been talking about this a lot lately because I'm kind of on the fence of where I want to go with this. this relationship with social media? Like, do I, uh, probably not forever, but I feel like I do want to create some of the boundaries.

23:59.29
Seth Macey
Ooh, you gonna leave?

24:09.38
Aaron
My, my ears perked up when you were talking about that app that limits time and limits your, your reasoning for going in and asking those questions, uh, screens then,

24:17.79
Seth Macey
Screen's in.

24:20.43
Aaron
um So just coming to again, the why, why do we need it? And I think in that time, again, the connection and all that was wonderful.

24:32.02
Aaron
But I've come to realize that what I thought I was doing was creating a photography career or opportunities through it. And then what I've slowly realized is,

24:45.17
Aaron
okay, that can be done a lot of different ways. And connecting in real life with people is probably more valuable. And creating real...

24:56.98
Seth Macey
In what sense? In what sense? Let me know.

24:59.54
Aaron
Just having, i mean, we all have close people that we feel like are close on social media. They might live 3000 miles away. We we've had conversations. We've both been respectful. We've both been nice to each other and kind.

25:14.86
Aaron
It's not the same as someone that lives in your town that you're meeting up with and, or a neighbor that's gonna, Hey, I'm locked out. Can you help me out? Like, it's just not the same as real life connections.

25:28.29
Aaron
Right.

25:29.86
Seth Macey
Yeah.

25:30.35
Aaron
Uh, so

25:33.92
Aaron
I've talked about, and I just think being very careful as you're starting with the wise and the time allotted to it. And again, if we have 24 hours in a day, that time put into that is being taken from other things.

25:54.57
Aaron
Paying attention to your dog, to your kid, to your your house, your cleaning, your the state of your affairs, keeping track of your taxes, whatever it may be that's distracting you from real life.

25:57.49
Seth Macey
yeah

26:06.33
Seth Macey
Oof.

26:11.95
Aaron
Can... be a detriment. And just looking back, I think I would keep an eye on that relationship a little bit sooner and a little bit closer and, and really focus on the, what, what am I trying to gain and what are the whys and what are the the reasons behind this?

26:31.84
Aaron
And

26:31.99
Seth Macey
So it almost sounds like you were a bit wandering aimlessly in this space, not really knowing what you wanted from it, perhaps because you were very new to it.

26:39.86
Aaron
I definitely was. You can look back and I was, i was doing a lot of things. I was throwing a lot of spaghetti.

26:44.90
Seth Macey
Which is good, though.

26:45.12
Aaron
It really was. Yeah.

26:46.43
Seth Macey
That's something we suggest. I mean, and not not and not not just in the social media sense.

26:48.59
Aaron
Yeah. I don't.

26:51.97
Seth Macey
I mean, like we'd suggest you and I try a ton of different stuff just in all realms.

26:58.61
Aaron
Yeah. And I,

26:58.92
Seth Macey
And 98% of it doesn't amount to anything.

27:03.16
Aaron
Yeah. And i I, look back and on a lot of things and I don't, I don't do a whole bunch of what ifs or it should have been this or it wasn't, it is what it was and it's not any different than it was. So that's all fine. I think just,

27:16.78
Aaron
for people out there looking back, I can reflect and say, oh that, that was interesting. How sucked in I got to this whole thing and great things came from it.

27:30.47
Aaron
Some crummy things came from it and it's just interesting.

27:35.51
Seth Macey
What are the crummy? What are the crummy?

27:38.02
Aaron
Well, you put yourself out there and you meet a lot of people. Sometimes there's bad things that come from it without getting into too much details. But like there's, there's been some sketchy relationships, some weird things that have happened, some scams that have almost gone through,

27:56.56
Aaron
ah a bunch of different things, you know, that you have to live and learn and figure out the hard way sometimes. Um, and yeah, or, you know, just feeling trusting of people or companies and things going Um,

28:17.07
Aaron
it it just opens you up. it It just opens you up to a lot of potential for good and bad. I just feel like it's, it's equal. um The world's kind of even Steven and as much good as you can get from something, there's probably a ah dark side to it.

28:32.34
Aaron
And that's all i'm just a kind of a cautionary tale of being careful with how much you're investing into ah the social medias so and getting caught up in the the current of it.

28:47.01
Seth Macey
Yeah, za so I guess that's the overarching message. i How would you summarize it best to your younger self?

28:55.17
Aaron
Again, i wasn't asking myself why a lot back then. i think if you're really truthful,

29:00.21
Seth Macey
So like no direction, right? Like no sense of, no aim.

29:03.22
Aaron
yeah, just enjoying it, right? Just someone's giving you a drug and you, you have no questions about like, why does this feel good?

29:06.59
Seth Macey
Yeah.

29:12.01
Aaron
Or is there any downside? Is there any bad long-term effects here? Is there any, will I have a hangover? Like you're, if you're just doing it and you're being like, well, I felt good.

29:23.89
Aaron
Like, let's do it again. You're, you're not really analyzing why, ah why you're in it and what's going on. So I think just

29:32.33
Seth Macey
Well, let me ask you this. what's what's the What's the benefit to having that level of hyper-awareness or mindfulness?

29:33.58
Aaron
Mm-hmm.

29:42.33
Seth Macey
but In other words, can you can you be too aware to a point where you're you're spinning in your own head? I mean, with those questions, how would those questions be valuable to a rookie version of yourself?

30:01.32
Aaron
Yeah, good question. I think, of course, you can overanalyze and be swimming in your own head and have that old monkey brain where you're just thinking about everything and all the possibilities.

30:14.64
Aaron
But at the same time, I think you can get hooked. You can just get hooked on something and not think enough about why you're doing it. And you're putting in hours and hours and hours. If people are looking at their screen time and they're seeing four hours on socials,

30:32.74
Aaron
even per week, that's geez, you could learn an instrument in that you can do a whole video montage of, uh, you know, a beautiful cinematic, yeah, bigger project.

30:44.09
Seth Macey
A bigger project, going back to point one, a bigger project.

30:47.55
Aaron
You can be exercising, even if you broke it down to one hour and kept three to yourself to do actual things in real life.

30:47.82
Seth Macey
Yeah.

30:56.91
Aaron
Things is, i guess is the point and to your mechanic,

31:00.79
Seth Macey
This is the problem, though. Everybody knows this. It's the cycle, though. It's the it's the being able...

31:07.26
Aaron
Yeah, they get into it. But so me saying, maybe think about it, maybe go make someone go like, yeah, why the hell did I just do that 12 hour reel and then felt miserable that it didn't reach, you know, more people.

31:09.51
Seth Macey
Yeah.

31:20.66
Aaron
And I was psyched about it. And there's 12 hours. I'll never get back without like really thinking about the what you're chasing or what you're going for.

31:31.93
Seth Macey
Yeah, good point.

31:32.82
Aaron
then then you risk running into big trouble. That's all. If you said, i've I'm going to do this 12-hour reel because I think it's a great portfolio. I have this awesome transition idea and editing style idea, and it's going to be funny, and I'm i'm doing this because I want to promote this with companies.

31:52.71
Aaron
Then you put it out, and if it bombs and no one likes it or it doesn't see a lot, you don't care because you're like, i but that was the why I did that was –

32:00.18
Seth Macey
you fulfilled the You fulfilled the aim.

32:02.65
Aaron
Yeah. But if, if you do all that and then you put it out and you're depressed, you're horribly, or you, I've seen people post reels and then post on the story, deleting this reel. It's not getting any engagement.

32:18.32
Seth Macey
i mean, I guess maybe engagement was the why in that sense. But then that's another...

32:22.80
Aaron
That's fine. But then you go down the road of like, okay, so what,

32:27.94
Seth Macey
You go down the why road, which we've talked about. Why, why, why, why, why?

32:31.12
Aaron
Yeah, why am I making stuff?

32:31.54
Seth Macey
why why

32:32.40
Aaron
What's that going to do?

32:32.78
Seth Macey
why Yeah, I mean, people hear say this over and over again.

32:33.08
Aaron
what Why do I need engagement? What's that fulfilling? what What hole my life is that filling?

32:40.86
Seth Macey
I think a good reason, I think to just summarize why that's an important train of thought is because you find out who you are.

32:49.49
Aaron
Yeah. And what you're going through and listen, again, a lot of good came from it.

32:52.13
Seth Macey
Yes.

32:57.01
Aaron
I'm not, I'm not smashing it. I use it. Uh, and I could say it helped me get through a tough time. Like I can say that, uh, but so could a lot of things that potentially are bad for you long-term, or if you don't switch your relationship with them can overtake you.

33:05.99
Seth Macey
Yeah. Right.

33:17.05
Seth Macey
right

33:17.29
Aaron
So i think I think that's the heads up. Right now, I feel like I have a much healthier relationship with posting and engagement and talking on social media and all that stuff than I did four or five years ago.

33:32.91
Seth Macey
What's the, just briefly, what's the health versus unhealth metrics you are using to make that decision?

33:39.77
Aaron
ah There's a a detachment to it versus um like an unhealthy attachment to it back then.

33:47.46
Seth Macey
Like an emotional charge that's been removed?

33:49.27
Aaron
yeah just Just time time attached to it. Time where it started to it started to rule me versus me rule e Oh, shit.

33:59.18
Seth Macey
Uh...

33:59.28
Aaron
it's It's Wednesday. I have to post today. By 12, I don't have something. I'm going to go edit downstairs. I'm in the middle of like cleaning my house or whatever. like I'm going to go edit downstairs because I have to have to post at 12.

34:11.07
Aaron
It's Wednesday.

34:13.13
Seth Macey
Yeah.

34:13.29
Aaron
If I miss this, will I get kicked out of that group?

34:13.32
Seth Macey
Yeah. Right.

34:16.29
Aaron
Like stuff like that, honestly.

34:18.46
Seth Macey
yeah

34:19.29
Aaron
Which sounds ridiculous, but those are some of the thoughts. Like, I can't miss this. I don't want to get kicked out of this in this group that we're in this photo group, you know?

34:26.42
Seth Macey
right

34:27.52
Aaron
So things like that. Or responding to every DM right away and being like, good. connecting with your audience is important. You have to respond to all your DMS and you get these messagings and you get these, this, um, this idea from people that that's, what's important and that's what propels you.

34:44.54
Aaron
And then you just sign on to this, like, you know, bill of rights that.

34:48.82
Seth Macey
This is a good point because I think we this is a side point, but you you get told what's important, right?

34:49.39
Aaron
Yeah.

34:57.55
Aaron
Yeah.

34:58.40
Seth Macey
By your feet and you don't under so you almost aren't making that decision on your own. You're not deciding for yourself what's important. I've often thought this before just with becoming a wildlife.

35:09.96
Seth Macey
Sometimes I find myself out in the bush. I'm like, why why am i why am I a wildlife photographer? like How did this come to be? And it's literally just because I've consumed so much content of other people that I thought it was cool and I'm going to go do this. And fortunately in this scenario, I love it.

35:26.46
Seth Macey
But perhaps there's other pieces or there's perhaps there's lots of other content that you're consuming and then you end up thinking, okay, this is really important. I'm going to do this. And it's not even your decision in a way.

35:40.53
Seth Macey
You've just been indoctrinated with this is what you should be doing.

35:40.67
Aaron
Right.

35:45.09
Aaron
I mean, how many...

35:45.76
Seth Macey
And then you're lost. You don't, you're like, you're like, ah what am what am um what am what am I doing this for? who Who am I? Am I, is this me?

35:54.09
Aaron
Yeah.

35:54.26
Seth Macey
Right?

35:54.54
Aaron
how How many posts have we seen about like, this is what you need to do to crack the algorithm. You need to 12 to 15 hashtags. So you're like, all right, I'm going to that next time.

36:03.51
Seth Macey
I'm to do that. And this goes to my point where that, yeah.

36:04.97
Aaron
ah You need to post your post every day. I'm going to do that.

36:06.96
Seth Macey
Yeah.

36:07.49
Aaron
Okay. I'll try that for a while. And you just like, and you're like, and then there's

36:11.53
Seth Macey
You skip the question of, is this something I want to do? Because you're so, it just soaks in so fast that it's, this is important. Somebody told me this is what I need to do. And somebody told me with such conviction.

36:22.55
Seth Macey
And this goes to my point that I've made a couple of times in recent episodes. It's like, when we go to YouTube or when we come onto a podcast like this, I understand people just want like, tell me what to do so that I can get there better. I, like I get it. I go to, I go to YouTube looking for answers and I'm so thankful that I can come up with them too, but I, it can get away for you when there's talking heads screaming at you, do this, do that, do that. This is important. This is important. It's almost like a, it awakes the sense of internal alarmism that I'm not doing enough and I should be doing that because somebody told me to, and there's 400 likes, 400,000 likes on this reel And,

36:55.19
Seth Macey
And then you skip the process of, you you don't have the pause button where you can then ask yourself those questions that we've talked about.

36:55.23
Aaron
Yeah.

37:02.53
Seth Macey
Okay, what is this doing for me? Is this something I really want to do? What's involved? And yeah, it can just it can get away from you in that sense.

37:12.34
Aaron
Yeah. and And that is that.

37:17.07
Seth Macey
Good, good topic.

37:18.46
Aaron
Yeah.

37:18.69
Seth Macey
um My other one mistake that I made I shouldn't even say made. these this is constant This is a constant battle and and everyone's going to have their own things, right? That they're working on forever just based on our own personality types.

37:34.80
Seth Macey
For me, I definitely, I think I've mentioned it before, or maybe haven't in a while on this podcast, I'm a recovering perfectionist for sure. i really struggle with putting out good enough work.

37:46.69
Seth Macey
You know that quote, good enough? Often when that's exactly what I need to do based on

37:49.57
Aaron
yeah

37:54.42
Seth Macey
you know I hate saying this, but let's say somebody paid $100 for something. I can't ah can't spend 20 hours making it incredible. I mean, I can, but is that the best use of my time based on the pay?

38:10.47
Seth Macey
No, I mean, like I hate saying that. it's It bothers me even just saying that because i take so much pride in what I put out, whether it's my own personal work, whether I'm paid a dollar, whether I'm paid $100,000. Like i just care a lot.

38:27.30
Seth Macey
That's his own point. um But I think it also ties into this other thing that I'm constantly working, um won't say against, but working with to improve upon is

38:44.67
Seth Macey
overcomplicating the process at times. And what I mean by this is convincing myself that certain elements need to be fulfilled in a project, in a pitch for it to go well, when that's not likely the case at all, where what I already have created or presented is sufficient enough.

39:13.24
Seth Macey
An example, let's not use a hypothetical example. Um, Or maybe we'll we'll use maybe something that I've... We'll use a personal example. So refusing to ah pitch on... you know Send an email to a company for you know a project or a campaign that I want to work for them on.

39:38.36
Seth Macey
Because I don't feel like I have enough. Let's say 12 photos isn't enough. I need 30 on my website of this kind of content. And then it's a barrier to just sending the outreach email.

39:50.44
Aaron
Right.

39:50.90
Seth Macey
Or, oh my God, I've only known this contact for a month. It's too soon for me to reach out to about this project I want to do for them. I need to do X and I need to do Y first to build a little bit um more rapport or to build a little bit of more confidence in them before I can um ah pitch this really good idea that would be excellent for both or lucrative for both of us.

40:15.40
Seth Macey
And often I found that those middle steps are just silly because I have forced myself at times to skip the overcomplicated things that I add to the process and things have gone exactly how I wish they would have.

40:29.83
Aaron
Yeah.

40:30.15
Seth Macey
And is what I'm saying making sense?

40:32.65
Aaron
Yeah. hey yeah ah I'm trying to think.

40:36.44
Seth Macey
I don't even know what you would call it though. Like, what what what would you call this? I call it overcomplicating things, adding unnecessary steps. I think it smells a little bit like not good enough at times, right?

40:49.77
Aaron
Yeah, just overcooking it.

40:52.40
Seth Macey
Overcooking it. Like I'm not going to to use a cooking example. I'm not going to serve unless it's daubed with the perfect whip of sour cream and chives when like maybe somebody just wants the steak, right?

41:05.07
Aaron
Yeah, it's, yeah, it's.

41:05.38
Seth Macey
there's There's your food example. And refusing to serve the dish unless it's as good as it can possibly be, whether that's the best pitch it could possibly be, whether it's the portfolio being as good as it possibly can be.

41:19.34
Seth Macey
i mean, i i'm you know I'm proud that I have that quality because I feel like it serves me well, but often our biggest strengths are our biggest weaknesses. And I feel like at times it can prevent me from wanting to push forward with something because I feel like the current state of where I'm at is insufficient.

41:26.69
Aaron
Yeah, sure.

41:35.79
Aaron
Yeah. So the steak analogy, but the sour cream part, you're serving steak and you want a little sour cream topping.

41:45.42
Seth Macey
Do people put sour cream on steak? let's go Let's roll with it, though.

41:47.10
Aaron
I don't know, potatoes, potatoes.

41:48.90
Seth Macey
Potato. Let's get it.

41:49.45
Aaron
That's part of it. Whatever, whatever.

41:51.97
Seth Macey
Whatever.

41:52.16
Aaron
but It's probably good.

41:53.01
Seth Macey
People have heard that, like, what the hell?

41:54.85
Aaron
I've always said this.

41:55.57
Seth Macey
Should we continue with steak?

41:55.65
Aaron
I'm not a good cook.

41:56.53
Seth Macey
Let's continue with potato. Let's do potato, just so people aren't, like, throwing up in there.

41:59.10
Aaron
I'm a good combiner.

42:00.94
Seth Macey
You are a good combiner.

42:01.18
Aaron
I'm a good combiner.

42:01.69
Seth Macey
You combine ingredients well.

42:03.88
Aaron
Uh, so steak and sour cream would be fine. I think, I feel like the steak has to be well done though on the outside, like a little crispy and then that.

42:08.82
Seth Macey
You need a lot of Montreal steak spice seasoning.

42:11.81
Aaron
Yeah. All right. Baked potato.

42:14.13
Seth Macey
Use but baked potato, okay, gourmet potato.

42:17.26
Aaron
But you have steak on the plate, baked potato.

42:20.71
Seth Macey
Okay.

42:22.33
Aaron
I'm sitting there hungry. You're cooking this up for me. Thank you, Seth. You're like, hold on. I want to whip up from myself, for myself, and by myself sour cream from scratch.

42:37.27
Aaron
So you're mixing heavy cream. You're whipping it.

42:41.11
Seth Macey
Mm.

42:41.61
Aaron
I don't know how you make the sour cream in real life, but for intensive purposes, you're whipping it up. You're adding a little bit of spice. You're making it special.

42:54.84
Aaron
You put it on.

42:57.96
Aaron
You hand it to me, the steak's cold.

43:01.74
Seth Macey
Yeah.

43:01.96
Aaron
The potato's a little cold. Sour cream, now in an alternate universe, you just bought sour cream and in one second put a dollop on. I don't know as the consumer whether you made this or didn't make this or it's perfected or took four hours or took four seconds.

43:21.60
Aaron
It's not necessarily the most important part of this presentation, this meal.

43:29.36
Seth Macey
Right.

43:30.08
Aaron
It's kind of, think we can get stuck in some of the weeds and some of the details and, and try to, to overdo things that maybe no one would notice.

43:43.37
Aaron
I remember. Yeah.

43:44.19
Seth Macey
Yeah. to To use your example too, i think also, so in that example, it would be, it would have been just better to just serve the steak hot, right?

43:45.55
Aaron
i

43:52.86
Seth Macey
And you would have been satisfied, of course. I think also what happens to you to to alter the analogy a little bit differently is I go, hold up, I'm just going I'm going to whip up this fancy topping for the baked potato.

43:55.28
Aaron
yeah

44:06.44
Seth Macey
And you go, man, just serve me the damn, I'm hungry, man. Like, just do it.

44:10.60
Aaron
Yeah. It's an aioli.

44:11.74
Seth Macey
and it takes And it takes an extra minute or two and the steak is still hot, but you're you're enjoying it just as much regardless of whether I did that thing or not.

44:23.71
Seth Macey
So some, yeah.

44:23.82
Aaron
Yeah. And the thing or not, you know, in your head, this is where I was going, you know, in your head, oh, the aioli would be better if I could, if I could mix up this aioli. But if I don't have it, the they eater, me, isn't thinking about the aioli because it wasn't part of the equation.

44:42.30
Seth Macey
Right. But it's in my universe.

44:44.43
Aaron
It's in your universe, so you know I'm leaving something out versus...

44:45.71
Seth Macey
Yes.

44:48.57
Seth Macey
and That's where I struggle. I'm like, I'm not putting my best work forwards. Like I could, I could make this incredible.

44:55.48
Aaron
Yeah.

44:56.55
Seth Macey
Now, what that stems from, i am not entirely sure.

44:56.84
Aaron
I do... so

45:00.09
Seth Macey
i think the first, and to just to, I guess, touch on this more for people who can relate, ah the first thing that has been very helpful over the past few years is just coming to understand that that's part of who I am.

45:15.40
Seth Macey
ah Recognizing how that has served me really well and recognizing where that has not served me very well.

45:25.34
Aaron
I do.

45:26.59
Seth Macey
And then going from there, just knowing, just uncovering, lifting the veil, I think is is the first battle.

45:26.80
Aaron
i do

45:32.82
Seth Macey
I mean, we've talked, I think, a lot big theme of today has been awareness and how to ah to develop that.

45:39.24
Aaron
Yeah, I do. a It's in the same vein, but slightly different. I with a project that I'm getting paid for, if I get a sense that like communication has been iffy or maybe the price was high or maybe I'm not thrilled with my deliverables before I hand things in, I i throw the entire farm.

46:07.37
Aaron
I'll be like, I'm going to, they wanted, ah they wanted 50 photos. I'm going to give them 75. I, they'd said nothing about video, but I happened to take some drone video and i'm gonna put together couple of reels.

46:19.12
Aaron
And that's a defense on, they can't get mad at me if I've gone so far above and beyond.

46:26.69
Seth Macey
But how do you know that to use the steak example? How do you know the steak was overcooked or not?

46:32.82
Aaron
I don't.

46:32.96
Seth Macey
Not done.

46:33.20
Aaron
it's just a It's just a gut feeling that I've had sometimes.

46:33.40
Seth Macey
Not done well.

46:36.04
Aaron
Or, yeah, how about this? How about they even say, like, ah we're hoping for no few more photos of X, y and z Okay.

46:47.45
Aaron
ah Well, I have this video, too. and i have it like I want to, which I don't think is terrible, but sometimes sometimes you have to stand up for yourself and not be like, I need to people, please, and make this

46:53.61
Seth Macey
Yeah.

47:02.56
Aaron
make this problem or this conflict go away just by covering it up with other goodies that normally I would charge for.

47:02.61
Seth Macey
Right.

47:10.25
Aaron
um So not exactly the same, but similar in terms of like, maybe I, maybe I'm overdoing things for a certain reaction because i'm nervous.

47:16.92
Seth Macey
Yeah.

47:21.18
Aaron
I'm not going to get that reaction.

47:23.40
Seth Macey
Does it ever bother you that whatever you produce can always be better?

47:33.42
Aaron
No.

47:34.88
Seth Macey
Well, that's, you're not like, that's my universe.

47:35.10
Aaron
Sometimes.

47:38.72
Aaron
Yeah. i I mean, my parents would be appalled right now, but it's just the truth, and it probably drove them crazy that I was so happy with, ah like, a B, B+. That's fine.

47:50.65
Aaron
That's fine. It'll be fine.

47:51.59
Seth Macey
I mean, I was that way in school because I didn't care.

47:54.92
Aaron
Yeah.

47:55.07
Seth Macey
i guess that's an important caveat.

47:55.24
Aaron
So...

47:56.46
Seth Macey
This is like,

47:59.21
Seth Macey
that's not to say that I'll throw in the towel for things I don't care about. I was also 15, 14 in high school. So that doesn't count.

48:06.25
Aaron
Yeah.

48:06.26
Seth Macey
um

48:08.76
Seth Macey
But,

48:11.90
Seth Macey
ah you know, I mean, I guess we're only talking about thing projects, you know, we're talking about ah an industry that I'm excited about. So, I mean, I don't really know.

48:21.48
Aaron
Yeah. I think to answer your question, I maybe, it does it bother you that things could always be better or more perfect, or you could have done more?

48:26.47
Seth Macey
What was my question?

48:31.53
Seth Macey
Always. Yeah.

48:34.60
Aaron
You always can. And what I realized quickly in this industry is the, the thank you is rarely equivalent in my mind to the understanding of how much work went into the whole thing.

48:51.81
Aaron
So

48:52.46
Seth Macey
Yeah. You've mentioned that you almost like want people to know your clients to know, which like it's it's so interesting because I could carry less.

48:53.91
Aaron
i reckon, yeah.

49:01.03
Aaron
So the harder I work, the harder I work. And then that, that difference, that differential between the gratitude gets further away.

49:12.31
Aaron
Like, like, okay. If I did a, if I did a B job and they're like, Hey, thanks. Here's your payment. Great job. And I did an A plus job and spent eight more hours doing it. And they go, Hey, thanks, man.

49:23.79
Aaron
That's cool. Here's your payment. I'm more pissed off with that one.

49:29.09
Seth Macey
But to your example, the steak, they don't know that you did all that. It's still the same end results. Like they don't know.

49:38.11
Aaron
Right. But I'm saying it's above and beyond. It's like you did more.

49:40.32
Seth Macey
Right. are you so are you is it just an annoyance of Is it just an annoyance of yours or are you saying you wish people understood?

49:41.34
Aaron
You spent eight hours more.

49:47.21
Aaron
Well, I guess it's a, it's a not being super attached, but being attached to the fairness of the, the transaction, right? So listen, if we agree that this is the transaction and this is my deliverables, and this is what you're going to say, thank you and pay me for, then will always go a little bit above and beyond because I, I want that reputation, but that's for me.

50:13.21
Aaron
Really? I want that reputation of he usually he delivers and he does a little bit more. I want that to be my review. Okay. It's not really to impress them if I'm being super honest.

50:23.96
Seth Macey
Or your validation. I'm just sitting here thinking it's interesting that you're getting a different version of validation outside of the one we typically explain with social media. But go on.

50:32.46
Aaron
Yeah, so I, but it's just a time and a money per hour sort of thing at this point. Like if I'm going to put 10 hours in and get $1,000, I'm not going to put 20 hours in and get $1,000.

50:51.53
Aaron
I know I could. know I could, you know, do this video with three cameras running and get three different angles. That's not what we talked about.

50:59.94
Seth Macey
Yeah. Yeah. Right.

51:02.39
Aaron
So I'm going to do what we talked about. If I have a good idea, I might do a little bit above and beyond. I'm going to deliver and deliver a little bit more. Like I'll give them a tip, 10% more, but I'm not going to kill myself for just cause, just cause I know I can.

51:23.09
Seth Macey
right

51:26.40
Aaron
ah Like i'll I'll kill myself to do it if you want to pay me and and acknowledge that that's going to take that much work. Yeah. But i don't I don't worry about leaving too much stuff on the table because again, like you said it in your earlier example, you can't do everything well.

51:45.74
Aaron
And I've gotten to that trouble.

51:45.74
Seth Macey
Yeah.

51:48.08
Aaron
along those lines of saying, Hey, I'll do video photos, drone stuff, all this stuff for your cabin or whatever it may be in a 24 hour stay and being like, well, none of this is great, but I got it all done.

52:03.36
Seth Macey
Doing too, doing a little bit of too much.

52:06.62
Aaron
Yeah. Yeah. Promising too much. And then being like, oh crap. I'm not thrilled with this, you know? So,

52:15.88
Seth Macey
I do know. You have a bonus?

52:17.48
Aaron
All right.

52:17.90
Seth Macey
You have a bonus tip?

52:19.05
Aaron
Yeah, I have my last one. um

52:20.55
Seth Macey
Your last one.

52:22.59
Aaron
Well, Yeah, is this right? this the last one?

52:25.84
Seth Macey
I think so.

52:26.86
Aaron
I kind of like doubled on yours.

52:27.51
Seth Macey
I don't know.

52:28.08
Aaron
So we'll call it a bonus. We'll call it my last one.

52:30.44
Seth Macey
Okay.

52:30.88
Aaron
it'll It'll be a quick one, but it goes along with what I was just saying. Back, I think, as I was starting, I'd be very attached emotionally to the amount of work things took and feel like slighted or ah underappreciated unhappled.

52:50.14
Aaron
That was difficult at times. Like all I wanted more than the paycheck was people to be blown away. And I, back to my original point, maybe that was living in a false world of social media where you post something and the only thing you hear is holy crap man what a photo

53:11.68
Seth Macey
heater

53:12.20
Aaron
unbelievable you should be famous you should be on nat like right quit your job bro you should be doing this for life and you're like oh my i this is what people how people should respond to my photography always for

53:24.61
Seth Macey
i want that sound bite all that on my road caster so i can just press a button and it replays that very yeah interesting precedent to be set early

53:39.36
Aaron
early. And then you do a job and people are like, Oh yeah, I didn't see that email. Uh, I'm going to download it tomorrow. i'm I'm at lunch right now. Uh, thanks though. And you're like, do you not realize how blown away you're going to be by my photos?

53:55.65
Aaron
Download them right now, sir. Oh, Hey, Oh, great stuff. Cool. Thanks.

54:03.15
Seth Macey
Yeah.

54:03.90
Aaron
hey that shot took me 20 hours do you know that I filled ah your product with bird seed to make birds come like yeah

54:05.76
Seth Macey
Hey, you know what I did to get this?

54:16.59
Seth Macey
This is so interesting because I never feel that way. I'm like sick. Cool. On to the next one. You know, it's interesting that we're so different. I like it.

54:26.86
Aaron
we are different but that's

54:28.01
Seth Macey
I think also what you're you're touching on we see this a lot. I think we actually mentioned this on a podcast episode maybe. a few months ago and I'm just, I'm piggybacking off your, your point as a tip is that there's a disconnect that photographers have between their experience, capturing photo and the effort it took, the level of travel, the level of time, the level of planning.

54:53.06
Aaron
Yeah.

54:56.86
Seth Macey
There's a disconnect between that and how, uh, They expect the photo or the the deliverables to be received. In other words, there's this weird thing that happens in many photographers' minds where they think, since I've put in so much effort, so much time, and so much planning, people should essentially, look the the photos are automatically great or better.

55:20.44
Seth Macey
and that the the audience should ah or will likely be celebrating them way more, should be applauding them way more, when the audience has no idea

55:30.11
Aaron
Yeah.

55:33.99
Seth Macey
your level of planning, your your vision, what it took for you to get that photo. They only get to see the end result, naturally so. And it's they don't need to care about the process. that it's It's nice if they do, but they're seeing...

55:50.51
Seth Macey
your, ah the tip of the iceberg, your hard work and your planning and all those things come to fruition. And I've seen photographers get irate at how poorly their photos are received by an audience,

56:00.43
Aaron
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

56:05.32
Seth Macey
because they did not enough likes for them or whatever. And then they rant about how much effort it took to get this photo or do this or create this set of deliverables. And it's like, man, no one cares because nobody knows. All they see is the end photo.

56:21.74
Seth Macey
So I guess the bonus tip building off of your emotional detachment

56:21.97
Aaron
right

56:27.59
Seth Macey
ah point is do just that realize that ah that process is for is for you and that effort is for you and it's it's the cost of getting that that amazing photo in many instances and people don't need to know that and it doesn't make your deliverables or your image better simply because It required more effort and you shouldn't expect people to reflect your, this, this false reality or this, this fantasy outcome that you've developed in your head because you've, you've put in so much time and work.

57:05.49
Aaron
Yeah. And if you put in so much time and work for the photo and for yourself, that will make it easier for them to hire you again, because when they start to think about, Hey, can we do this kind of thing for cheaper? Or can we get someone else to do these photos?

57:21.00
Aaron
And then they really start to unpack your photos. That's when they'll say, i'd rather just have him or her do it.

57:25.94
Seth Macey
Right.

57:29.24
Aaron
You know, cause it's like, they're, they're going to put in the work they're going to, I don't know how to go about finding this or figuring this out or doing this. It sounds like too much work or they might try and be like, Ooh, this really flopped. This is not good.

57:42.07
Aaron
That person does it better. Let's call them back.

57:44.80
Seth Macey
right

57:44.84
Aaron
So I think that it it does come back for you. Um, but off the bat, they're looking at it as, Oh, that's cool photo. Oh, cool.

57:53.15
Seth Macey
Yeah.

57:53.69
Aaron
Art that's art.

57:55.11
Seth Macey
Like a, like a,

57:55.61
Aaron
Or if it's not, it's not like, if it's not a good photo,

57:59.05
Seth Macey
it doesn't matter how much effort it took.

57:59.48
Aaron
And it doesn't matter how much. Yeah, because.

58:00.82
Seth Macey
It doesn't matter if you're in Machu Picchu, like it doesn't matter.

58:04.85
Aaron
Right.

58:05.51
Seth Macey
You know, it doesn't matter. I'm looking at my calendar, my bear calendar behind me I'm looking at a polar bear and I'm, I can visualize how much effort it took just to like get in a position to be in Churchill.

58:17.59
Seth Macey
so Nobody knows. It's just a bear.

58:20.64
Aaron
Right.

58:20.82
Seth Macey
it's just It's just an image, so make sure that it's as good as it can be, I guess.

58:25.40
Aaron
Yeah. Yeah.

58:26.34
Seth Macey
And and don't don't equate the level of effort to the level of quality.

58:33.62
Aaron
Yeah, exactly.

58:36.63
Seth Macey
All right. Part two.

58:37.54
Aaron
All right.

58:38.38
Seth Macey
Donezo. Did you like my Yeti mug?

58:39.88
Aaron
All right, everyone. It's great.

58:40.67
Seth Macey
My Yeti mug mic holder? Did it do okay?

58:43.64
Aaron
I think it's better. I'm more stable. You should like tape it to the top and then take sips out of it the same time.

58:45.38
Seth Macey
Should we go with it from now on?

58:50.94
Seth Macey
I had debated just holding it the whole thing, but it's a little heavy. It's a little heavy.

58:55.06
Aaron
Yeah. yeah

58:56.51
Seth Macey
All right. We'll be back next week. Be sure to leave a rating review on Apple podcasts and Spotify. And if you're listening on Spotify, you have comments, stories you want to share, questions you want to insult us, any of those things.

59:08.55
Aaron
Bring it.

59:09.15
Seth Macey
You can write a comment and we welcome it.

59:11.05
Aaron
Bring it on. Yeah.

59:13.40
Seth Macey
And, uh, can subscribe on YouTube. If you want to see these episodes visually, if you want to see the caterpillar that's going on my, above my lip, it's still going. If you want to see how beautiful Aaron is, you can do that as well.

59:21.92
Aaron
Still going.

59:24.05
Seth Macey
Link to that channel is in the episode description till next time till next week. Good chat with you, buddy.

59:29.29
Aaron
Take care.