Justin Haugen - Reinventing Yourself as a Creative Professional

Justin Haugen (@photowarlock) is a commercial photographer, creative professional, and a father navigating the challenges of balancing career and family life.

What does it take to pivot from a flourishing wedding photography career to the dynamic world of commercial photography? How do you stay creatively fulfilled while facing the realities of parenthood and life’s unexpected changes? Justin’s story is one of evolution, resilience, and hitting refresh when life demands it.

Expect to Learn:

• How to transition as a professional from one photography genre to another
• How building better systems can transform your work-life balance
• The value of trusting a team and delegating to boost productivity
• Why community and connection are essential for a fulfilling creative career
• Why limited time can make you a more effective and focused professional

Justin's links:

Website - https://justinhaugen.com/about/
Facebook - http://facebook.com/justinphotos
HIgh ISO Podcast - https://spotify.com/pod/profile/highiso/

Sponsor:

Thanks to Tamron for being our lead sponsor this episode! Explore the 18-300mm all-in-one zoom lens for Sony APS-C Mirrorless cameras and soon for Nikon Z and Canon RF mounted cameras. Right now, enjoy $100 off on this lens! You can visit www.tamron-americas.com or your local Tamron authorized dealer. 

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Thanks for listening!
Go get shooting, go get editing, and stay focused.

@sethmacey
@mantis_photography
@thephotographermindset

Transcript

00:00.82
Seth Macey
Hey, welcome back to another episode of the Photographer Mindset Podcast. I'm your co-host, Seth Macey. Had to change the cadence.

00:07.41
Aaron
Wow. And I'm your co-host Aaron Mannes.

00:14.84
Seth Macey
Nice. I think envisioning, you're envisioning your head. It's like, man, it's man, it's man, it's man, it's man.

00:18.82
Aaron
Manis, Manis, Manis.

00:20.01
Seth Macey
Well, last week, your introduction was so good. You want to do it again? should people listen to?

00:22.98
Aaron
Oh, man.

00:24.27
Seth Macey
No, you want me to do it?

00:25.43
Aaron
I did it.

00:25.47
Seth Macey
That's fine.

00:26.28
Aaron
I did it once, so I would never have to do it again.

00:29.06
Seth Macey
Well, you ran into the classic, you know you did the classic error of being doing a task so good that now you're the guy.

00:35.29
Aaron
Yeah. Yeah.

00:38.10
Seth Macey
you know, you should have done a half-assed job. Anyways, this is the Photographer Mindset Podcast. I'm Seth. That's Aaron. Today we had on Justin Haugen. I hope I said that right. I actually didn't ask him how his last name was pronounced. So it's either Haugen or Haugen.

00:51.11
Seth Macey
Sorry, bud. It's one of the two. But...

00:54.38
Aaron
Yeah.

00:54.52
Seth Macey
I met Justin at the Tamron Creator Summit back in December of 2023. He's a fellow Tamron ambassador, and we decided to have him on the show today. He has had a long, successful career in photography.

01:06.11
Seth Macey
He does a lot of commercial stuff right now. We got into a lot of ah topics regarding sacrifice. He's a new parent with young children. and We talked about how to how restrictions of time can often turn us into our most efficient selves and how we actually build better systems when our time's restricted.

01:25.08
Seth Macey
What are some other things we talked about? What should people have a keen ear for today?

01:29.56
Aaron
I just really related to the fatherhood situation and and trying to balance a hobby and a passion and a career and fatherhood and ah being a good partner, all those things um and the change that and happens.

01:46.28
Aaron
When you have a new child come into your your world, ah that specifically for me was very meaningful and a good conversation. ah The rest was just, I think, his enthusiasm and good view on on life and the changes that come with it.

02:01.87
Seth Macey
Yeah, I think especially the changing identity, how your identity changes as a creator as you go through life. And that often is in syncopation with you know the demands and responsibilities of life. But often we just molt our skin and we become become different versions of the creator we once were. And I think that's kind of what this episode felt like. So without further ado, a quick word from our sponsor and then into our episode with Justin.

INTERVIEW

00:13.48
Seth Macey
Welcome to the show. I have a question for you right off the bat. I had a friend who gave me this little ah interesting item. I think it's hilarious. And i I wanted to pose this question for you. It's a ticket to the moon.

00:27.05
Seth Macey
don't know if you can see that on YouTube. Yeah. It's a little ticket to the moon. And the gag is, if you had one of these to give out, who would you send to the moon? And it can't be political.

00:38.31
Seth Macey
And it can't political.

00:38.30
Justin
I was go immediately going to go political.

00:40.44
Seth Macey
It cannot be political for everyone.

00:40.85
Justin
a

00:41.65
Aaron
Thank

00:42.05
Seth Macey
For the listener's sake.

00:45.06
Justin
Who would I send to the moon? It's punishment, right?

00:48.02
Seth Macey
Yeah, you get this little ticket right here. And you just...

00:50.36
Justin
and this is like

00:51.23
Seth Macey
It's a one-way ticket.

00:51.53
Justin
it it's a punishment right

00:54.55
Seth Macey
yeah I mean, it's essentially a nice way of saying they're vamos from Earth. They're still alive and they're maybe just chill on a moon colony or something. But it's a one way ticket.

01:05.55
Justin
Oh, I got one. um Okay. This will start with the story and segue into why they're going to the moon. But I had a wedding guest one time who was a a husband of ah of a bridesmaid in the wedding party threatened to kill me. He was, he thought I was hitting on his wife, but you know, she's in the wedding party. I got to take her picture.

01:25.05
Justin
And after a quick chat we had, as we were walking away from the bridesmaid suite, he mumbles something, something, know, mother effer. And I think, excuse me, how can I help you? He's, you heard what I said, stay away from my wife or I'm going to to my car, going get my gun and I'm going to shoot you.

01:42.27
Justin
And yeah, so that I had to like deal with that on a wedding day.

01:42.38
Aaron
Jesus.

01:45.56
Justin
I've never had, um I've never had ah somebody threatened my life and that's when I knew, I think I need to get out of weddings. So yeah, ah that guy.

01:51.69
Seth Macey
that and that That is a beautiful...

01:52.64
Justin
Yeah.

01:53.49
Aaron
That is how you open a show.

01:55.81
Seth Macey
That's how you open a show. It's a beautiful segment because, of course, you transition you kind of transitioned from wedding photography to commercial photographer.

01:57.24
Aaron
Cheers.

02:03.58
Seth Macey
Thanks for that great setup. But first, Justin, we got to hear from Aaron on the Ticket to the Moon, and then we'll get into that.

02:11.52
Aaron
ah That guy too.

02:13.25
Seth Macey
Oh, nice. Maraudery.

02:14.69
Aaron
Yeah.

02:15.68
Seth Macey
Oh, you know what?

02:15.93
Aaron
and yeah

02:16.69
Seth Macey
Fuck that guy. Me too.

02:17.95
Justin
I feel supported.

02:18.97
Aaron
Three-way ticket. Yeah.

02:21.43
Seth Macey
That's ridiculous.

02:21.52
Aaron
I don't know. Yeah.

02:22.54
Seth Macey
That's ridiculous.

02:22.60
Aaron
He's, he's going.

02:23.92
Seth Macey
Well, Justin, thanks for joining us today. Thanks for offering your time. Always appreciative of that kind of stuff. Tell us about that transition from wedding photography to what you do now, which is more commercial focused.

02:33.51
Justin
Well, I think about five, six years ago, I started to notice a downturn in booking weddings, and I felt a shift in my motivation and what kind of work I wanted to be doing.

02:45.49
Justin
I came from a design design background. I was more really interested in marketing. And I always thought I would see myself in some kind of agency type of work.

02:56.30
Justin
And there was some parallels now happening in my photography as I was shifting away from weddings and into that space, more corporate, more commercial, ah more marketing focused. And yeah, after pandemic happened and,

03:09.81
Justin
the Okay, ah i'll go I'll backtrack even further. So in 2013, I was working for one of the largest employers here in Tucson, and they laid me off. And i started that's when i my villain story started. My superhero origin story started.

03:26.60
Justin
Yeah. I took like most of the year to sob about it and kind of gather myself. And that's how I started my business. I i worked on my website. I did all my SEO from scratch. And by January, 2014, I was number one organic search result for Tucson wedding photographer.

03:37.58
Seth Macey
Thank you.

03:41.95
Justin
And I just started booking. So I really hit the ground running in my first year of business. And, uh, Fast forward to 2019, I get asked to do all the legwork to become a contractor for the company that I used to work for. and I get a purchase order approved.

03:59.77
Justin
and and As of 2019, they're um a client of mine. so I went from being laid off by this company to now they've been one of the the driving forces of income in my business.

04:10.64
Justin
and I do a lot of work with them now. um It's not as busy right now as it usually is, but That's that was where I started my transition from ah weddings and the portraits of about 20 or commercial work was about 2019.

04:22.76
Justin
And then 2020 pandemic hit decimated my business. I had nothing going on for most of that year. What a, what a time to just be able to work out three hours a day and, and then like drink a lot of vodka with my friends in the evening remotely.

04:38.50
Justin
So that was 2020.

04:38.68
Seth Macey
What's

04:39.93
Justin
then

04:40.88
Aaron
Yeah.

04:40.97
Justin
um

04:41.63
Aaron
In a nutshell, that's 2020.

04:41.88
Justin
and then i

04:42.06
Seth Macey
the summary of 2020?

04:42.55
Aaron
Yeah.

04:43.72
Justin
Yeah.

04:44.15
Aaron
yeah

04:44.12
Justin
And then I, I panicked at the end of the year, sold work. I renovated my house, got it ready for sale to sell it and moved to, was going to move to Phoenix. so i So I sold my house at the beginning of 2021.

04:56.86
Justin
And in the middle of all this, I was going, I was licking my rooms from a pandemic breakup. And I and met my now wife and I moved to Phoenix or Scottsdale for like two months and in that time my work picked up right around March when the when the first ah vaccination started rolling out the phone calls started coming again so I was coming back to Tucson for work and then my wife was like why don't you just live with me and I was homeless so yeah why not and and then um I just we started the family. In 2022, our daughter was born and we went from there. and

05:30.05
Justin
I ah decided like i it was a concerted effort to not be working on the weekends anymore. I wanted to be home. I wanted to work Monday through Friday, 9 to 5. I wanted to keep real business hours. and Before, my work had poor boundaries with my by free time.

05:44.43
Justin
and After you know got into this space, it opened me up into being a family man. so I feel like used to be more my identity was wrapped up in photography. I Now I feel like I'm a dad, so that's where I'm at now.

05:57.98
Seth Macey
That's awesome. ah Talk to me about sacrifice. You just mentioned your you know father of young kids. Kid? Your kids?

06:05.28
Justin
Two kids, yep. we are Our son was born in January.

06:06.14
Seth Macey
ah

06:08.43
Seth Macey
Congratulations. Yeah.

06:08.79
Aaron
Wow, nice.

06:09.30
Justin
Thank you.

06:09.94
Seth Macey
So you're running a creative business. You've got young kids at home. You've agreed to do the show today. So we're grateful for that when there's a lot of things pulling at you. Talk to me about sacrifice and how do you accept how do you come to accept that you can't do everything?

06:23.38
Justin
Yeah, that's a big theme right now. So I kind of feel like today that I was going to get to really share maybe a cautionary story because I'm undergoing a complete

06:30.61
Seth Macey
Sure.

06:35.45
Justin
revamping of what I know as a creative professional, um how my role as a parent is affecting all of that. And then not to get political, but the current economy and landscape is affecting my ability to produce, which is hasn't happened since the pandemic. That's the only time that really affected me previously.

06:54.20
Justin
And ah yeah, I'm, I'm really undergoing this complete change in who I am as creative because I'm and Because I'm not able to produce the way I had been in the last the last few years, i had I had a great run ah leading into this year. And I just noticed around and around the election time and leading into this year, ah just my work fell off a cliff. And and used to being you know booked up a few times a week.

07:18.94
Justin
Now it's maybe a few times a month. And my wife returns to work in June coming off maternity leave. And I i had a realization that I don't think that we can...

07:31.26
Justin
you know, manage all of our childcare costs and I'll, you know, and the timing of everything, it was just, it was not going to work out. So I'm, I'm going to step up and take over on primary care, childcare duties for our children while she returns to work ah through summer. And then my daughter goes to starts preschool in August and I'll be dropping her off then. And it'll be me and our, our infant son. And the goal is to get him in the daycare once he's walking. So I'll,

07:58.78
Justin
Hopefully we get those, those legs moving. And then, um, it's going to be a complete shift of how I work right now. Um, I have to say like the biggest sacrifice is, uh, my built, my, like the biggest sacrifice is my identity as a creative. I'm kind professional. I'm unable to,

08:18.12
Justin
end to the work in the way that I want to My time is um split differently. i prioritize spending time with my kids and my wife more than I do my work. I've had to really put things aside. And then if I can make it happen, it's in these very short spurts.

08:31.97
Justin
um You know, right now we've got like part-time childcare, normally we have full-time care. It might be like we have a nanny for four hours today or tomorrow and i can get in front of that computer for like an hour and a half.

08:43.28
Seth Macey
Thank you.

08:43.54
Justin
It's so hard to kickstart your process, uh, to be organized, to be focused and get productive work done when your window is so small. And it's always, it's never, um,

08:55.34
Justin
and undistracted time. Like I have to, I have to go, if I hear a baby crying or a toddler crying, I got to go help out. Like that's where my, my, I guess my parent parental guilt comes into play. Like I can't, I just can't let leave my wife hanging on a lot of that stuff. And we're navigating that whole so scene. And then,

09:14.50
Justin
Yeah, so my time is just, it's very precious. It's mostly focused on my children now. And maybe it's last night I was up to like midnight, you editing photos my laptop so I can get this work out for a client that I did work for last week. So that's my sacrifice right now is is that part of myself is being put to the side.

09:34.65
Seth Macey
right on aaron

09:36.73
Aaron
Yeah, I just, I'm nodding my head. i hear him. i have I have a nine-year-old, so it it gets it gets easier. It gets better. um And not that it's not great and it's just different, but it is absolutely a life changer.

09:50.88
Aaron
And anyone that goes into it thinking it's like, it's going to be cake and a ah breeze, it it will challenge you.

09:52.47
Justin
Thank

09:57.50
Aaron
to the nth degree, your relationship, your ah relationship with yourself, your expectations of yourself, your whole thought of how it would go.

10:09.10
Aaron
It's turned upside down and you have to recreate that whole process where, you know, maybe you could before kids stay up till midnight and then sleep until 10.

10:20.08
Aaron
Okay. Well, if you stay up to midnight now, you're still getting up at six cause they're crying or five cause they're crying or three in the morning cause they're upset and need food.

10:23.14
Seth Macey
right.

10:27.59
Justin
Thank you.

10:28.16
Aaron
Like it is a, uh, it's a complete game changer. And to understand that and roll with the punches and try to get through this time with, I mean, I can't imagine two young ones at the same time.

10:39.34
Aaron
One was enough. Uh, but Yeah, to to get through it is just like that. And I'm smiling at the, I could hear the transitions and the new you being born.

10:50.70
Aaron
And Seth knows dealing with me and my schedule. It's like, where are the windows, man? You know, like, and and that's when we try to just be as efficient as possible or editing possible.

10:59.39
Justin
so

11:02.65
Aaron
happens when I can for three days straight. And it's weird stints. And it's like, all right, I got 20 minutes, but I know my process usually would take an hour to get a nice coffee going, sit down, start editing for a couple hours.

11:16.74
Aaron
ah But now it's like, I have 20 minutes. I could probably knock out three edits and that's three closer to the end. And then I'll come back in a few hours after work and then do a few more. Like it it just becomes a ah grind ah that you get used to a bit.

11:32.48
Seth Macey
Yeah, it's smart you both identify that because you could easily fall into the trap of, I i can't get into my optimal routine. Not worth it. Whereas I feel like the right mentality is 20 minutes is better than absolutely nothing.

11:39.65
Aaron
Yeah. Mm-hmm.

11:44.53
Justin
Yeah, I'm really having to focus on my organization, my project management.

11:44.59
Aaron
yeah

11:50.44
Justin
I'm i'm really deep into some tools right now that I'm trying to utilize to make sure that my time is spent with focus. Like maybe you've heard of Notion or some of these project management um tools. Notion's one of them Monday. like They're all project management boards. I'm using one called Xtiles. It's kind of, it's a user tool.

12:12.52
Justin
manipulated thing where you can you can make your own board based on like, I mean, it's pretty much i can anything I can think of and how I want to organize information. It allows me to do that. And so I'm trying to be good about my system so that when I step into work that I immediately get into a place of focus and then I can tackle on my list and I can see what's coming out.

12:30.68
Justin
Now, the hard part right now is I can't even get that done. Like, i can't even i can't even like get myself organized. Like, that my my organization tool right now is on my to-do list, and that's how backed up I am on and just trying to get anything done.

12:42.64
Justin
So i don't have to.

12:43.63
Aaron
Yeah.

12:43.81
Seth Macey
Here's the interesting part, right? that restrictions force you to optimize and become more efficient because there's no other choice if you want to continue to do the thing that you love so much in some capacity.

12:57.93
Seth Macey
If you have infinite... ah you know, free time or you don't have many restrictions, I feel like there's a lack of motivation potentially to build better systems because there's just not an inherent need to do so.

13:06.91
Justin
Thank you.

13:13.99
Seth Macey
So I feel I'm liking this conversation at the start here for two reasons. One, if people feel like they don't have a lot of time, either due to children or a demanding job, this is relatable, hopefully.

13:25.94
Seth Macey
And two, if you're someone who does have a ton of free time, and not not necessarily you know it doesn't have to have anything to do with childcare, just if you have free time, perhaps this is ah way to get you thinking about, okay, let's build, let's think about, let's imagine I had restrictions.

13:38.56
Justin
Thank you.

13:45.20
Seth Macey
How would I build better systems for myself before things get crazy, before life ramps up, before I have tons of clients on my on my agenda, et cetera.

13:57.20
Seth Macey
ah So I think that, you know, there's kind of two different camps here who could be listening.

14:04.29
Justin
Yeah, I definitely think um I'm the most effective I've ever been. Even when I was at my peak the last two years, very busy, probably like probably like three times, threefold over previous years my business years, I managed to work better than I ever had. I had systems in place. I got in and out of work quickly. i would delegate ports parts of the work that were maybe menial or not as important to me to spend as much time on. So I had i employed an editor who was editing work for me where you know he would he followed my style to a T and and I was doing a lot of commercial work. So I didn't have this...

14:39.18
Justin
Artistic attachment to what the final result looked like. So I only cared about the, the production of the work so that, it that it was completed and delivered on time. So that, that became focus. And, uh, I got more business minded where I started looking at ah ROI. Like if it didn't help.

14:55.08
Justin
ah make a certain amount of money based on the time and effort that I put into it, then I had to cut, you know, I i do fine tune parts of the process to make it more effective for my time. Like a it was all about converting time into money at the most effective sense. And if if something took me out of um my ability to produce for more than several hours, and it's worth it at that point to um subcontract that portion of the workout to somebody else who can help and deliver the results I needed. So yeah, I, I,

15:23.09
Justin
I had always been poor about work-life balance. I had a previous relationship where i had ah a partner living with me with ah with her son. And I started my business in the middle of all that.

15:35.73
Justin
And I didn't know how to, I was always away from ah away from my partner and trying to grow my business. And i it was a mistake that I learned now how to better manage that time and that I had a hard cut off. If it was five o'clock, it was time to put down work, go cook dinner, like hang with my family.

15:56.34
Justin
And i was very adamant about maintaining those boundaries which in which I didn't do that before. And I think you know starting this business at 30 and now I'm um i'm turning 42 next month, I've just learned better to do have better boundaries and and make sure that people get the best parts of me and most effective parts of me as a partner, parent, employee, or creative

16:21.36
Aaron
Yeah, there comes a time where you you trim the fat too, and you you start to realize like, whoa, I just lost a ton of available time in my day.

16:31.71
Aaron
And maybe there's certain niceties you had, like a ah trip to go get coffee every morning. But you can make coffee at home, right? And save basically 40 minutes of driving.

16:42.10
Justin
Thank you.

16:42.96
Aaron
Maybe it's binging Netflix and that's fine if you have the extra time. But if you don't, maybe that's the thing that's got to go. And if you want to stay focused on where you want your priorities to lay, i just feel like as adults, you get to a point where it's like, okay, certain things are going to have to be cut out. This isn't Living for free in a college dorm ah with all my buddies and nothing but time.

17:05.87
Aaron
Like I got to cut out some of the the fun stuff ah and and really focus and set down ah boundaries for myself so that I can get that workout in.

17:07.42
Seth Macey
right.

17:10.95
Justin
so

17:16.87
Aaron
And maybe that workout for a couple of years when you have young kids means it's in home thing. You buy a couple of kettlebells and you you bust it out with one of 9000 programs on YouTube for free.

17:27.30
Aaron
ah There's just a million different things that you can take a look at audit and say, how can i make this more efficient, still get 90 percent of the return and just keep on going?

17:40.30
Aaron
And I think that's, I think that's an important piece too, where you just have to be real with yourself. If you want to continue the business, keep it, survive.

17:47.53
Justin
Thank you.

17:47.73
Aaron
If you want to keep the passion alive, if you want to keep your hobbies, you might have to look at some of that extra stuff that you typically would do and be like, ah, I'm going to cut that Netflix account because the temptation, i don't even want the temptation.

18:01.85
Aaron
i don't want, to even be able to surf it and look through it like i'm just going to cut it and save the 15 bucks a month and i'll return to that when i have some time

18:12.47
Seth Macey
Can't cut Netflix. What?

18:14.27
Aaron
yeah you can you can

18:16.09
Seth Macey
just kidding.

18:17.28
Justin
That's how I edit though. I got to watch a movie while I'm while i'm editing photos. i can I can actually do both pretty well.

18:23.12
Seth Macey
Yeah. it's yeah um we' We'll move on to some other things, but I just want to... It's so interesting to hear you say, after saying this is essentially the least amount of free time you've ever had, you then went on to say, this is the most effective I've ever been.

18:37.08
Seth Macey
And there's so much in that statement that I just want people to think about. um Rewinding a bit, you talked about you know switching from the wedding photography genre over to the more commercial side. I'm curious to know what some of the biggest challenges were for you.

18:54.05
Justin
right.

18:54.38
Seth Macey
And this could apply for photographers who aren't necessarily beginners, but who want to switch over from a genre that they're currently excelling in to something that they're essentially a rookie in.

19:06.07
Seth Macey
ah What were some of the challenges you faced and what advice would you give to people looking to just change the genre they're in?

19:13.58
Justin
And I guess I can't say that I was like a complete rookie. I think i ran parallel to these, to these types of works over the course of my career. Like, yeah, my focus was wedding and portraits. However, um you know a business might reach out to me, a corporation, I might cover an event. I might, you know, like these shoots were happening. I did editorial. I was shooting, um, features for magazines, local magazines, like all all this stuff came up in my career. One of my clients was an organic produce grower.

19:38.74
Justin
i did a lot of marketing-based work for them, some high-profile video projects for them. And i had experience in the space, but I knew there was like another level of production and quality and deliverable that I was after. I'm still after it, but I i think my biggest challenge was ah learning about working as a member of a team um or having people work with you. I think as photographers, videographers, we can be solo-op operators a lot and we take on every part of the process. We are, um you know, we're the salesperson, we're the we' the creative director, we're, you know, we're the DP, we're all these roles. And then we stupidly, we're our own assistants and we go and move gear around and we lose time and and just,

20:21.76
Justin
you there's, those things make you ineffective. Um, and I want to get the most results I can for my clients, you know, based on the deliverables and the, and the meetings that we have, uh, leading up to the work that we're doing.

20:32.86
Justin
So brain farting here. I'm like, i I have like so few brain cells to go around.

20:36.70
Aaron
Yeah.

20:40.00
Justin
Sometimes I'll just lose train of thought, like mid sentence, but, um,

20:40.01
Seth Macey
my Honestly, that's a complete thought. That's complete thought.

20:44.54
Justin
Yeah. Yeah. So my, my challenges are um yeah.

20:46.07
Aaron
yeah

20:49.36
Justin
be Learning how to work as part of a team or have a team under you.

20:51.42
Seth Macey
Okay.

20:52.04
Justin
And that's, that's a new skill that I had to, I had to exercise because I'm not used to telling yeah initially i wasn't used to telling people like how to do things for me, like moving.

21:02.67
Justin
And I'm still, I still have to break myself of that mindset. Like I'll, I'll see a light stand, not set up exactly how I want it. And I'll walk over and, you know, I'll just to stand and my assistants look at me like, what the fuck are you doing?

21:12.84
Justin
And I'm like, I got it, man. You know, like, in and in my head, it makes it's quicker if I go do it real fast, but then I've learned that I can move, I can make things move faster with my mouth than I can with my hands.

21:23.77
Justin
That sounds inappropriate, but you know what i mean? Mm-hmm.

21:27.94
Aaron
Yeah, I don't know.

21:28.37
Seth Macey
amazing

21:29.78
Aaron
No, but in that one time you could do it faster. Right. But if you teach that person, this is why I'm doing it. I like it this way and multiply that by 10. Now you've saved time.

21:40.27
Aaron
So it it is letting go a little bit. It's, it's definitely hard. Seth and I have gone through that with the podcast and in giving different people certain roles.

21:45.97
Justin
Thank you.

21:48.57
Aaron
uh, thank you Hillary so much for our social media. Cause it just probably wouldn't exist if, uh, she weren't helping us out. And is it always perfect? Yes, Hillary, it is always perfect, but no, so sometimes we say like, Hey, uh, this is an idea or look how this turned out or, and it's,

22:08.94
Aaron
yeah it's hard. It's hard to have those conversations. Sometimes you don't, you want to be so grateful for all the help and all the stuff that they're doing for you. And you don't want to like shit on their creative process at all.

22:22.31
Aaron
But sometimes at the end of the day, it's, it's our business and we have to be a leader.

22:23.50
Justin
Thank you.

22:28.02
Aaron
We have to be directive and she is great about taking that. So it's like, it makes that relationship so much easier when, You do have good people working under you and they do want your feedback and they do want to please and and make it work for you.

22:43.46
Seth Macey
Yeah, very well said, very well said. I'm going to rewind again.

22:47.92
Aaron
Rewind.

22:49.85
Seth Macey
People might have been like, oh, why'd you skip over that? Don't worry. We're going back to it. You had mentioned that in one year you had gone to being the most organically searched wedding photographer in your area. Is that correct? Did I hear you correctly?

23:01.01
Justin
Yep.

23:02.11
Seth Macey
I'm wondering if you know we're not proponents of... we We speak about this a lot. We don't like giving people the recipes. Step one, step two, step three, because you don't learn anything. But I'm curious to know if you could share some of the concepts that went into making that that secret sauce so that people can maybe ah can apply it in their own genre or in their own way.

23:20.27
Justin
Yeah, and and the funny thing is and so I am going to be a prime example of not taking your own advice. and The things that got me here are are things that you kind of run out of practice. Once you start your business starts spotting on all cylinders, being sole operator, you tend to let things go to the side. And so what initially got me into that into that into that Google ah organic ranking was I built up my site, I uploaded photos, I followed all the SEO recommended best practices. I named files ah based on where I wanted them to rank. So it might say Tucson underscore wedding underscore photographer underscore the name of the venue.

23:58.88
Justin
you know I was very specific about geographically naming things based on where they were in town. So if I wanted my photos to rank on a wedding venue, I would make a blog post about that wedding that was at that venue. I would make sure the wedding venue isn was in the file names of the images. I would blog organically and make sure that i mentioned a Tucson wedding photographer, ah um photographing at XYZ venue and you, and then you hot link all of your vendor team. So if I make sure that on my intake form that I have all the entire ven vendor team ah and their socials or websites.

24:34.56
Justin
So that way, and and then you're asking your bride and groom to do it at that point because they, on their intake, they're doing that. And then I use that to make a blog post. And then I would populate multiple blog posts. I was blogging like crazy because I was just drinking Jameson and blogging.

24:47.68
Justin
Like that was 2013 was video games, crying, blogging Jameson.

24:47.97
Aaron
please

24:52.33
Aaron
so

24:52.63
Justin
Like that was in that order.

24:53.70
Aaron
Jesus.

24:55.13
Justin
And I think I got like 30 plus blog posts from just using work that been Because I've been doing this as a side hustle for, you know, started time in 2013, 2014. So I've been shooting since like 2004.

25:13.25
Justin
So I had a decade of of work going on. And if you'd asked me that early in my career, do you think you'll ever do this full time? Like, no, I never saw it. I thought I was going to be doing my full time corporate gig.

25:24.52
Seth Macey
Thank

25:24.98
Justin
and that this would always be a dream. And I i wouldn't be able to like make this happen. I don't know that I would have just quit my job and done this. And I wasn't even making that much money. like This was back when $15 an hour was good pay.

25:37.34
Justin
I bought a house with $15 an hour starting starting in that part of my career.

25:39.84
Aaron
Mm-hmm.

25:42.05
Justin
And so um I never envisioned this for myself. So fear is a great motivator, losing my job. And then what minimal severance they gave me. And then I tapped into like what Paltry 401k I had already saved into. There wasn't much. So I floated myself through the year and it was just hit the ground running on on the web stuff. And I had some weddings already booked.

26:03.64
Justin
But yeah, so the practice was you know to to blog and be consistent and write ah keyword, organically mention everything in keywords. And now you know you've got chat GPT.

26:14.82
Justin
It's like if I blog post now, there's some number, there's some bit of chat GPT because it kind of takes away ah some of the need for me to to fill in all these mundane details about things. But I absolutely will go in and tweak it now and and make sure that my voice is still heard in the in the writing.

26:29.22
Justin
But before i was I was blogging everything by hand and

26:32.02
Seth Macey
Mm-hmm.

26:33.18
Justin
And that that is where I started to climb all the rankings. and And I was very tapped into Google Analytics. I was site crawling, um building a site map and having Google crawl my site and almost daily every time I did a blog post. So I was just really keyed into the algorithm. And unfortunately, that's changed a bit now. So so every you know new rollout to the algorithm, they seem to change and and hinder certain things. And ah there's just a lot of um it's kind of nonsense to see how, how it makes, it makes everything very ah SEO forward instead of content forward, um which makes me you like, it's, it's driven to drive SEO.

27:13.19
Justin
And that's why like, anytime you Google a freaking a recipe, you got to get a whole like blog about my history with chicken Alfredo and my grandma may used to make chicken. and and And then you get through like 10 pages of type and there's a fucking recipe.

27:26.76
Justin
So it's,

27:28.47
Seth Macey
Thank God for the jump to recipe button.

27:29.26
Aaron
Yeah.

27:30.56
Justin
Yes, exactly. I use it all the time. but

27:32.51
Seth Macey
I want to as jump to recipe and with an arrow.

27:32.70
Justin
but that That's a great idea.

27:36.70
Seth Macey
That might be maybe be provocative. Maybe not the arrow. Just jump to recipe.

27:41.71
Justin
you know like that. That should be the name of someone's blog. it should be I'm going to make a food blog and it's going be called Jump to Recipe.

27:49.67
Seth Macey
All right. I'll be suing you.

27:53.04
Seth Macey
I got another.

27:53.57
Justin
ah

27:53.60
Seth Macey
I you have two tickets. So two tickets. That's out.

27:58.18
Justin
That's funny.

27:58.24
Seth Macey
Unless you want to go there. I don't know. ah Aaron, do you want to jump in before I ask keep going?

28:05.41
Aaron
Uh, yeah, you know, I'm just listening and enjoying. Uh, it is, i guess my question is, I always, always feel this or think about this.

28:11.83
Justin
so

28:15.53
Aaron
You mentioned being in corporate and and talking about the dream, and then switching is the dream as dreamy as it was dreamt. Or ah think it's important for people to hear, like, there's a, there's a reality to doing this full time. There's a, there's different fears. There's things you didn't, and ah account for, I feel like not you specifically, but in general, there's things you don't account for such as freaking COVID, uh, things like that, where it's like, wow, no one was imagining this. And this completely crippled my business for an entire year.

28:50.91
Aaron
Uh, and getting through those things, like what have you learned along the way that if you could start over pre-

28:53.11
Justin
you

29:00.33
Aaron
2020 pre that crash pre maybe right now market crash and those sorts of things. what What have you learned if you could start over to say like, oh, damn it, like I would do this differently.

29:13.79
Justin
Yeah, I think now i look around at my client list. I look at um some of the biggest drivers of my business. And personally, I'm not happy because I don't feel like the work aligns with my um altruism and code of ethics, so to speak.

29:30.89
Justin
And I wish I could clean that up a bit. And then so I recently had an epiphany hearing ah someone speak about this at an event that I I'm connected to a community, a creative community locally, and we do monthly events and his speech really made me realize like, I can work with the kinds of brands and companies and people who align with who I feel like I am as a person.

29:54.63
Justin
And I don't have to necessarily sell out, so to speak, uh, for forever. Like, you know, some of the, some of my clients,

30:01.52
Aaron
Mm-hmm.

30:03.86
Justin
they you know I'm like um a conundrum of being anti-establishment, but also being a capitalist and just kind of caught in the middle of all this.

30:09.22
Seth Macey
Thank you.

30:10.20
Justin
like i There's things I don't like about big corporations, but then I've got a family to feed. So end of the day, like I'm taking pictures of people. i'm not like you know I'm not pressing the buttons that they're pressing. It's... it's it's It's hard to reconcile those two and I have to compartmentalize it.

30:26.01
Justin
However, in an ideal world, I would only work for companies that ah align with my my how I feel about the world. And um I think there's a Venn diagram of where those two worlds collide and intersect.

30:38.45
Justin
And i if it's out there for me, like I feel like I'm going to find it.

30:38.90
Aaron
Interesting.

30:42.17
Justin
And because I'm retooling right now, I'm licking my wounds a bit. But while I'm spending more time with my family, my mind is constantly on what's next for me. Like, how am I going how am I going to like enter the next phase of my career? Because at this point I've had multiple careers in photography in the last 21 years.

31:00.66
Justin
And, and I know that there's always going to be something out there for me in photography because I don't know what I would be doing if I wasn't doing this. I think I have skills that would take me into other spaces, but At the court of core of it all, like I'm a photographer, like I'm a problem solver, and I'm a communicator. So I think there's going to be space for me in this field for a long time as long as I can focus on ah where ah my interests lie.

31:24.81
Seth Macey
I do think that's a good question to ask yourself, though. I think about this regularly. If some entity came down from the heavens and pointed a wand at me and for whatever reason I could no longer take a good photograph or be creative, what else?

31:43.04
Seth Macey
Maybe not be creative, but I couldn't be a photographer.

31:45.14
Justin
Thank you.

31:45.93
Seth Macey
What would I do? And this is just, you're you're obviously different than me. I don't know if you agree with this, but like I try to make sure my identity isn't entirely wrapped up in, said this a lot on the show, that my identity isn't entirely wrapped up in, I'm a photographer, i am this, I am that solely. Because if that ever gets ripped away from you, I feel like you're in the abyss, for less of a better term.

32:10.65
Seth Macey
ah What do you think about that concept of over-identifying?

32:10.70
Aaron
Thank

32:16.91
Justin
That's me. That's probably, like that was probably me from 2014 to when my daughter was born. I feel like that was, I'm a photographer. um My interest is photography. My hobbies is photography. My work is photography. Everything I did, um I was really, I mean, I came up in the education space. Like even, even like I wanted to talk to other photographers, um,

32:42.22
Justin
And COVID was a major correction of that for me because I was confronted with like losing my identity. And I was forced to like, well, when I'm not doing photography, what who am i

32:51.31
Seth Macey
Exactly. and

32:51.71
Justin
and And now there's so much time of me not doing photography. And I do have my, i for the first time in this career, i have interests outside of photography.

33:02.83
Justin
Somehow i always come back to photography though. Like it it intersects and and I weave it into my interests. But that's because like photography is like, is a, a passport to experience and connection.

33:14.21
Justin
So like if, if it's my language, so if I can, you know, speak my language and, enter and weave it into my hobbies and my interests, I'm going to find a way to do that because there's always overlap in that, in that space.

33:26.45
Justin
So yeah, I actually have hobbies now and and my identity now is, is father um or I'm leaning, I'm leaning into that.

33:27.41
Seth Macey
Yeah.

33:31.56
Aaron
Yeah, man.

33:33.17
Justin
And photography is now for i've my, in my whole life up until now, like photography was like my main love. Like that was my number one love, was, it's been photography. And now I've got three people in my house now that I love more than photography.

33:48.07
Justin
And I'm just trying to hang on to photography and need to learn for the ride. But, but now it's know fatherhood and the being a husband that are taking a lead.

33:56.55
Seth Macey
yeah

33:58.50
Aaron
yeah man

33:58.51
Seth Macey
Maybe it's not so much hanging on to It's just it's in a different basket and it's something you can always return to. friend it's a familiar friend.

34:07.62
Aaron
Yeah. And not, I mean, there's, there's this only a certain percentage of dads that get to stay home and be the primary caretaker. And I think that is like, when you look back at it all, like, holy, like what a, what a blessing.

34:16.74
Justin
Thank

34:21.09
Aaron
And like, what an opportunity to be able to do that. There there's not many that can say that. And I'm, I'm jealous of that and that time in a sense, uh,

34:32.03
Aaron
Yeah, it's just, it's, it's freaking awesome. I mean, you'll, you'll never forget that those, those phases in that time period. So that's something that a lot of people miss. So I think, you know, there, there's no solution always there's, there's trade-offs.

34:46.86
Aaron
And in this case, like one door closes for a bit, one door opens for a bit and it's, it's still all good if you make it all good.

34:52.53
Seth Macey
Thank

34:54.69
Aaron
Right.

34:56.32
Justin
And and i I have like a lot of mixed feelings about it in terms of like, it's it's like turning off a part of my brain, um part of what drives me um and how I structure my life.

34:56.72
Aaron
Right.

35:07.75
Justin
And so it's not even like a, this is how it's going to be forever. It's just at a phase, a time in my life that I have to um i have to like seize a hold of this moment and make sure we're doing making the right decisions for our family.

35:14.21
Aaron
Yeah.

35:18.89
Justin
Luckily, my wife has a great job, um career. She's been with the company for a decade and yeah, They're the reason why she's off of work for six months on maternity leave. So I ah feel very lucky in that respect, but also my wife signed up for a version of me and my ability to do things and in our house and for our family ah of that, you know, interweaved hour our goals for what we have in life.

35:43.43
Justin
And ah part of me is going to feel um a certain way if I'm not able to meet that end of the bargain, but like we've talked about it and and our children are the most important thing right now.

35:53.99
Justin
And I, and this is just a phase. Like I, I don't need any, like, I don't want pats on the back. Like, it's just like, this is parenthood. It's, it's thankless.

36:03.59
Aaron
Yeah.

36:04.00
Justin
Like, and it's thankless and it's, it's um joyful all in the same breath. And I'm just, I am very lucky that I'm in a position that I can do that. And, and I know it's just going to set up the next stage of our, of our lives as parents and, and me as a creative professional.

36:18.31
Justin
So I'm i'm like, I'm ready for my next act. And, and I'm, I'm using this time now to, to think about how to, make that next act happen, what what methods I'm going to use, like my networking, my marketing, like that's all where my brain is at right now on top of like being a parent.

36:34.87
Seth Macey
When do those, when do you when do you carve out time? Probably you don't, consciously do it or diligently say, okay, I'm going to think about this this stuff you just mentioned right now. But is there a moment when you're you're letting your brain have these thoughts of how you're going to do things?

36:49.59
Seth Macey
I know for me, it's on walks or it's in the shower. How do these how do these kind of mini brainstorm sessions, for lack of a better term, come to be?

36:56.62
Justin
Thank you.

36:59.31
Seth Macey
And what do they sort of look like inside your head?

37:02.28
Justin
i think ah I think it just happens. It's happenstance. It happens. Maybe I'm doing dishes or yeah, maybe I'm going for a run or I've got, you know, I'm doing something with my kids and I'm trying to be present, but of course, like my mind will go places.

37:14.90
Justin
um So I think it's pretty sporadic. I think there's an over overreaching goal of like where I want to work. um I've got a game plan of how I'm going to make connections and move into those spaces and be adjacent to them and be seen by ah people that I I want the profile my work to be visible. like, I've got, I've got plans. Social media plays a part of that. um Being involved in the creative community that I am a part of now is a part of that. So there's, there's like a big plan. um And maybe if I could get my damn vision board done and I can like work on my, my project board and and, and start to like detail all these little tasks that I have for myself, like it'll, it'll help me. Yeah.

37:56.90
Justin
formulate the mission here and and get a better sense of like what's next. But, but yeah, my brain's, my brain's like not far from those thoughts. You know, it might be like earlier I was laying with my daughter in bed, trying to get her down for a nap and brain's brain is there. So it's, it's usually on or close to being on.

38:14.34
Seth Macey
That's good. It's good when your brain is on.

38:17.55
Aaron
Keep it on.

38:19.58
Seth Macey
ah In terms of you know, you just mentioned the photography community you're a part of.

38:19.86
Aaron
Keep it on.

38:23.01
Seth Macey
Do you feel giving back to the photography community, whether that's through talks, you know, in-person meetups or whether it's through social media, do you find that it's a necessity in existing in this industry or for you, does it simply just fulfill you?

38:29.06
Justin
Thank you.

38:40.64
Justin
Is it a necessity? i don't think so. Because every time I think like, oh, yeah, being involved in the photography community has given me so much, which is a true statement. Then I think about like, every now and then I bump into a photographer I've never heard of in my town, um who's had a successful career for 20 years, and I've never seen their work and never heard of them. And they've, you know, done this whole thing.

39:00.61
Justin
ah Maybe we have a few mutual acquaintances. But those people are out there. There's so many for every photographer that you've heard of. There's probably like five more who just don't do any of the social media stuff. They're on, um, long-term relationships with, uh, with retainer clients or clients that they work with regularly and they just don't exist in the photosphere as we know it.

39:22.13
Justin
Um, they're out there. Uh, so is it necessary? Not necessarily, but, um, does it help? Yeah, I think so. I run a photo community on Facebook. We're like 4,500 members strong and over 10 years now.

39:34.80
Justin
And my group's grown little by little over the years. And it it's gotten so big now that I'm, I actually deleted Facebook from my phone and blocked it from my, from my um browser.

39:45.52
Justin
So I'm barely in the group and the group thrives on its own. It's friendly. It's ah generating commerce.

39:51.12
Seth Macey
Thank you.

39:52.79
Justin
It's making friendships. Like there are people in the group who met because that they have a studio together because of the group. And, That community has generated commerce for a whole like ecosystem of people that otherwise would not have been connected. There's referrals in the group like regularly. I've booked work through the group. I've been referred work because I run the group.

40:11.42
Justin
So there is a lot of benefits to being involved in the photography community. And I do like to like, I used to think, keep my head down. I'm not competing with anyone else. I don't want to see someone else's work and be influenced by it and have it change what I'm doing.

40:26.75
Justin
I'm only competing with myself. And then when I got involved with photographers more, it became like, I'm inspired by the work that other people are doing. I'm curious about their processes. I'm, you know, rooting for their success. Like there's all these things changed. And I, and I realized like there was a lot that I was missing out on by not being involved with other photographers because otherwise it's a really lonely space to be in. If you're not, you know, as far as like a, who do you connect with? You know, you're not working at the water cooler. You don't get the water cooler to go chat

40:54.40
Aaron
Right.

40:54.49
Seth Macey
What was the catalyst for that mind shift?

40:57.70
Justin
I started as a group. I needed second shooters for weddings initially. And then i went to WPPI at in Las Vegas back in like 2014. i think what's the first time 2015. And I just thought this was really cool. Like interacting with other photographers. Like I want to be, and photography been a part of this, but like,

41:19.61
Justin
Whenever there's something going on, I want to be closer to the action. And I don't know if anyone else has this kind of curiosity about the world or or uses photography as a means to do it. But I was really into motorsports when I was 20. And then when I got my first camera and I remember thinking like, next time I come to this event, like I don't want to be in the stands. I want to be on the track, you know, as is close to being being part of the action without being the action.

41:42.77
Justin
And photography has done that for me in so many phases of my life. And I finally like hacked. the photography industry as a thing to get behind. And so now, you know, you know, being involved Tamron, like we got there, you know, we got into that space. It's, it's like a pier behind the curtain. Like, I don't want to just use this camera. I want to see how the lenses are made. Like I want to, I want to see that side the industry and ah through community, through connection.

42:08.61
Justin
um It's been a, a big pier behind the curtain. So I can see like how the sausage is made. And it's that's, I'm curious. I want to see it.

42:17.06
Seth Macey
Yeah, you're curious. mean it's It's interesting. I was going to ask you what non-technical skill you would credit yourself with for helping you the most grow as a creative.

42:27.64
Seth Macey
ah For example, i was going to use, like i'm I feel I'm creative. i you know I have a willingness to be a beginner. and And I was curious to know what yours was. Is it curiosity or is it something else?

42:37.64
Justin
like what's my skill non-technical skill um I think it's I have this innate ability to get people to open up to me in a way that they normally wouldn't with others and that's more than just photography it's it's friendships it's personal connection I've had people literally tell me I've never told anybody that I don't know why I told you and so I think

42:46.55
Seth Macey
Okay.

42:58.70
Seth Macey
Why do you think that is?

43:00.01
Justin
I think i I harbor safe space for people to feel not judged and to be themselves. And um there's moments in my photography career where I feel like that I was able to give that space to people and then phonograph them in a vulnerable state and and then show them who I saw on chem.

43:19.01
Justin
And I think that's that's and that's like i mean that's more like a personality thing. like that's a personal That's who I am as a person. But like if it's a skill, like something you can work on that isn't technical,

43:28.72
Seth Macey
thats and like That's exactly what I was considering as an answer.

43:31.94
Aaron
Yeah.

43:32.27
Justin
Yeah. Yeah.

43:32.87
Seth Macey
That's exactly, you know, something like that.

43:32.97
Justin
yeah

43:34.32
Seth Macey
The ability to get people to open up. That's, you know, that's a skill that many have and many don't. And that is quite useful, I imagine.

43:43.58
Justin
And it's funny because like I'm not like a deeply empathetic person. like like um and to give you an example, like if I see somebody on an Instagram video getting hurt, like there you ever watch those takeover videos where the guys are like drifting in the in the intersections and then they like take out like three or four people standing on the sides and they get flown across the the intersection?

44:02.26
Seth Macey
Yes, I've seen that.

44:02.93
Justin
ah and I enjoy that shit. I have no sympathy for it whatsoever. So like I'm not like deeply empathetic. um

44:11.38
Seth Macey
i mean if you're going to run with cabo then you get gored i'd say these why what are you doing What do you expect?

44:11.79
Justin
When I see...

44:15.36
Justin
Yeah, but I don't know. like I mean, i feel I feel like I care about the world. I care about people and their safety and that everybody's needs are met. But then it's like, i don't dwell on um i don't dwell on it a lot. and And sometimes I feel kind of cold about it.

44:33.05
Justin
So i'm like, I don't know how I harbor safe space for people to be vulnerable. And meanwhile, like i I don't care how people feel.

44:39.21
Seth Macey
yeah That is a form of empathy, though, because it's not your responsibility to bear the burden of others.

44:39.29
Justin
and so i don't know. It's so weird. It's conflicting in me.

44:47.83
Aaron
Yeah.

44:48.20
Justin
That's a good point.

44:48.99
Aaron
And ah a safe space is, well I mean, sorry, mom, but if you bring my mom with some emotional stuff, a safe space being warranted and she bursts into emotion because she feels so much for me, it's like na not what I was wanted right now.

45:06.53
Aaron
Like now I'm, now I'm have to cater to you. So sometimes stoicism or ah being able to be a rock is exactly the reason people are be able to open up and feel like this is, this is safe because there's not going to be a huge judgment or reaction.

45:22.71
Aaron
Even if it's on the same line of sadness or or, whatever it is, someone bursts out in tears because you tell them something.

45:23.63
Seth Macey
We can count.

45:29.07
Aaron
It's like, okay, now I got to wait for you to feel better before I continue. Like, but you know, it just, it doesn't, it doesn't lend to, I feel like the ability to really share and just keep going and let that other person really share.

45:45.60
Aaron
Spoken from a counselor.

45:46.50
Justin
I agree. Yeah.

45:49.10
Aaron
As a counselor.

45:49.08
Seth Macey
we get

45:49.20
Justin
It was very insightful.

45:50.63
Aaron
Yeah.

45:53.31
Aaron
So. yeah Seth mentioned you do podcasting yourself. Do you?

45:58.40
Justin
ah My buddy Rob Hall and I, we had a podcast and I say we had, but it's like we never officially put a pin in it, but it's ah it's called High ISO.

46:01.56
Aaron
Uh-huh.

46:08.82
Justin
It's a photography and business life podcast.

46:09.09
Aaron
Huh.

46:10.46
Justin
We hit like 40 some episodes. We had some great guests on. It's all still online, so you can you can check it out. But we both transitioned out of weddings into the commercial space and then became parents like within a year of each other and then had second kids within a year of each other.

46:22.54
Aaron
Gotcha.

46:24.46
Justin
So ah just it's one of those things that kind of got...

46:25.36
Aaron
No.

46:27.37
Justin
um It got put to the side.

46:28.88
Aaron
It's your Netflix.

46:30.19
Justin
Yeah, I'd love to pick it back up again. i love the format.

46:33.43
Aaron
Yeah.

46:34.23
Justin
I'd love to like lift more voices up and get more people on the podcast. But I feel like it hasn't been officially canceled. If we wanted to pick it back up again, we could. But yeah, it was fun.

46:43.97
Aaron
Cool.

46:44.19
Justin
I enjoy the space.

46:45.89
Aaron
I was just curious.

46:47.78
Seth Macey
Well, Justin, I think it's been a pleasure having you on today. I think that was a really good conversation. Packed into 45 minutes. Efficient with less time.

46:55.56
Justin
Did it.

46:57.63
Aaron
Yep, that's right.

46:58.34
Seth Macey
What was the order of things during 2019? It was Cry, Jameson, Blog.

47:04.31
Justin
yeah That was 2014. Yeah.

47:05.87
Seth Macey
What you think?

47:06.95
Justin
2013. Jameson blog. Play video games.

47:09.32
Aaron
Yeah. The photographer mindset does not promote drinking Jameson and vodka to...

47:15.69
Seth Macey
It's like the drug commercial. but but satellite it i mean boy but honest Man, we appreciate your time today.

47:17.51
Aaron
Yeah.

47:19.09
Justin
Side effects may include a successful photography career.

47:19.33
Aaron
so Yeah, yeah.

47:24.72
Seth Macey
it was really insightful. and Get back to your kids. Go be dad. Go fill that fill that basket.

47:29.11
Aaron
Yeah.

47:31.06
Justin
Oh, my daughter's still sleeping. I'm going to be in of this computer until I hear ah my name cried out loudly.

47:35.03
Aaron
There you go. Go do your thing then.

47:35.97
Seth Macey
You know what? I'll still cherish that time. That's all for today, guys.

47:38.87
Aaron
Yeah.

47:39.27
Seth Macey
Thanks so much.

47:40.48
Aaron
Take care.