Ian Plant - How to Find Balance Between Art, Business, & The Creative Process

Ian Plant (@ianplantphoto) is a renowned nature, landscape, and wildlife photographer with decades of experience who left his career in law to follow his passion for capturing the beauty of the natural world. 

In this episode, Ian opens up about the challenges and rewards of the creative process, emphasizing the importance of patience, intent, and adaptability in creating meaningful work. He shares his philosophy on balancing artistic passion with the realities of running a photography business, while discussing how to overcome obstacles and thrive in unpredictable conditions. Whether it’s crafting a unique style or taking a fresh approach to photography, Ian encourages listeners to stay inspired and intentional in their creative pursuits.

Expect to Learn:

• How photographers can embrace less-than-ideal conditions
• Why photography is a marathon, not a sprint
• How to pursue personal artistic passions while managing the business side of photography
• Why great photos show people something they haven’t seen before
• How to ensure that creative and professional endeavors remain fulfilling

Ian's links:

Ian's Website: https://www.ianplant.com/
Ian's Free Photography Resources: www.photomasters.com/free-resources/

Sponsor:

Thanks to Tamron for sponsoring this episode! This summer, enjoy big savings with discounts up to $300 on a range of lenses, including their award-winning 70-180mm F/2.8 G2 lens now at its lowest price ever. Featuring a constant F/2.8 aperture and built-in image stabilization, this lens is packed with customization options to help you capture perfect shots. Don’t wait—visit www.tamron-americas.com or your local Tamron dealer today!

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Thanks for listening!
Go get shooting, go get editing, and stay focused.

@sethmacey
@mantis_photography
@thephotographermindset

Transcript

INTRO

00:00.99
Seth Macey
Hey, welcome back to another another episode of Photographer Mindset Podcast. I'm your co-host, Bruce Wayne.

00:06.95
Aaron
you know, your voice doesn't sound that bad.

00:09.47
Seth Macey
Thanks.

00:09.54
Aaron
i think, you I think it's your own, it's your own head.

00:10.22
Seth Macey
so

00:13.68
Seth Macey
What is a head cold? I mentioned that.

00:15.60
Aaron
Yeah.

00:15.77
Seth Macey
um And I apologized profusely for people who don't like listening to people who are sick. But I tried to show up for y'all today, don't hate on me too much.

00:23.94
Aaron
You did and you did well.

00:26.09
Seth Macey
Thanks. Appreciate it. You are the other half of the co-hosting team?

00:29.68
Aaron
Aaron Maness. Yes, I am.

00:30.76
Seth Macey
We have to say this in case it's your first time listening. If it is and you like this episode, feel free to leave a rating and review on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. It's a tremendous way to show your appreciation and costs you zero dollars and we're super appreciative.

00:43.80
Seth Macey
Today we had on Ian Plant. What did you think of the conversation? What should people listen out for? What can they expect?

00:49.94
Aaron
What did we say at the end from nihilism to dinosaur fights?

00:52.21
Seth Macey
one Yeah, we went all all over the place. We went from creative nihilism to dinosaur fights everywhere in between.

00:57.45
Aaron
Yeah, it was great. he's He's a professional. We talked about that and what that means to him and how he defines ah photography in that way for himself and the important checkpoints, I think, in going through this day-to-day for him and his photography. So I learned a lot. I thought it was ah a good conversation and we got kind of deep, as he said.

01:22.61
Seth Macey
Yeah, I think also people can listen out for the difference between intent and purpose. Doing things with both are one of those two things, especially when photographing, you know, on scene, moving around. We talked a lot about creating images and not just kind of snapping away.

01:36.67
Seth Macey
And what I really liked was hearing his story about, you know, leaving a high paying job as a lawyer to to being a full time professional photographer and how it was that path was thought of thought out in a strategic way that made sense and really mitigated a lot of risk as opposed to just.

01:55.69
Seth Macey
doing a ah leap of faith, which i feel like is tempting for a lot of people who want to switch career paths. So I really like that part of the story. Without further ado, let's get a word from our sponsor and then we'll get into our episode with Ian Plant.

INTERVIEW


00:00:12.45
Seth Macey
Well, there's nothing worse than listening to a podcast host who sounds very heady. As you can tell, I have a cold. Gross. Forgive me. Hopefully, this 45 minutes to an hour is bearable for you listeners.

00:00:26.02
Seth Macey
Aaron, maybe feel free to take the lead if you just can't stand me anymore. i promise you, Ian, who is our guest today, I didn't get sick on purpose. I'm not trying to give you the short end of the stick. We're excited to have you, though.

00:00:38.64
Seth Macey
And funny enough, i had my Tamron hat on. Ian had his Tamron shirt on. Guy says it's the most comfortable shirt he owns, believe it or not, which was shocking to me.

00:00:47.75
Aaron
There you go. Yeah.

00:00:49.98
Seth Macey
I found very interesting.

00:00:50.25
Aaron
and

00:00:52.62
Seth Macey
Ian, you also said that it's difficult to get you to stop talking. That's a good problem to have, so I'm excited to have you today. Thank you for your time before we even begin.

00:01:00.40
Ian Plant
Well, thank you so much for having me on and it's perfectly okay if you got a head cold actually that I think is a benefit for you because it gives you that low gravelly voice. It's kind of that Batman voice and I i don't have a low and gravelly voice.

00:01:10.01
Seth Macey
Ooh. Yeah.

00:01:15.21
Ian Plant
Mine's kind of more high pitched and annoying. So I'll do my best to, uh, yeah.

00:01:18.97
Aaron
It'll balance out.

00:01:20.25
Seth Macey
It'll balance out. There you go.

00:01:21.60
Aaron
Yeah.

00:01:21.90
Seth Macey
Yeah, I mean, well, thank you for kind of embodying the show right away, turning something that is most likely negative into a positive, the great mindset from a photographer on the other end. So I appreciate it very, very much.

00:01:32.80
Ian Plant
That is literally the definition of photography.

00:01:36.32
Seth Macey
Say more.

00:01:37.36
Ian Plant
yeah

00:01:37.78
Seth Macey
Say more, please. Get right into what you mean by that.

00:01:40.13
Ian Plant
Oh, well, I you know i mostly specialize in nature photography, landscape, and wildlife.

00:01:43.97
Seth Macey
Right.

00:01:45.05
Ian Plant
And ah usually when you're out there, conditions aren't ideal. And so a lot of times you're making lemonade out of lemons, or as some of my workshop clients were saying when I was with them last week, and it was just raining the whole time, ah you have to make vodka out of

00:01:49.25
Seth Macey
Right.

00:02:03.39
Ian Plant
the lemons that you get. Put a little lemon slice on the vodka and drink. ah So a lot of times you you're you' just trying to pull something out of nothing and you're trying to turn a negative into a positive.

00:02:12.72
Seth Macey
Right.

00:02:15.47
Ian Plant
and And I think that's just part of the creative process is figuring out how to make something work, even if it's not aligning with your creative vision.

00:02:26.12
Seth Macey
Do you find that's the case more often than not?

00:02:29.17
Ian Plant
Yeah, you know, like it depends on what kind of photography you're doing. But yeah, I think that most of the time the world is not cooperating with what you want to get. And so I think that photography is is really a lot about patience, you know, waiting for the real world to spontaneously converge with the artistic vision that you've got lodged in your brain.

00:02:52.26
Seth Macey
Right. Well, how do you find the balance then, I guess, waiting for good things to come to you versus creating, as you said, lemonade or vodka, right? that that That age-old debate between being reactive and you know proactive.

00:03:06.66
Seth Macey
What's that balance look like for you?

00:03:06.76
Ian Plant
what Yeah, I mean, I think a long time ago, I realized that photography is a marathon. It's not a sprint. And that it's it's good to have patience and it's good not to be feeling the pressure to constantly be creating when you're out there.

00:03:13.60
Seth Macey
Okay.

00:03:21.99
Ian Plant
And I know it can be difficult for people who are doing this more as a hobby than as a career hobby.

00:03:27.77
Seth Macey
Right.

00:03:28.10
Ian Plant
They might have limited time when they do get out there to make photos and they feel a lot of pressures. Like, well, this is my one big photo vacation of the year. I've got to go out and make amazing images. And I can, yeah.

00:03:37.72
Seth Macey
of myself.

00:03:41.84
Ian Plant
But, you know, when when conditions aren't quite right, I do try to stay creative. I try to stay active. You know, with landscape photography, I've been spending a lot of time doing scouting, looking for good composition so that I can be ready when the moment does occur, when I finally get those perfect conditions that I've been waiting for.

00:04:00.18
Ian Plant
I know exactly where I want to be and what I want to do with it.

00:04:04.54
Seth Macey
Yeah, that's a good point. I feel like we can get into the head trap of thinking that not actually clicking the shutter or filming everything that isn't that is not photography.

00:04:15.51
Ian Plant
right

00:04:16.02
Seth Macey
Right. Which I don't know how you teach that. so And maybe you have some thoughts on this. And how do you get to a place where you can kind of remove pressure from yourself? Like you said, I know there's a lot of people listening who's here thinking,

00:04:29.06
Seth Macey
I've spent four grand on this trip. It's my one trip of the year. It's raining or, you know, things aren't working They get snowballs.

00:04:34.23
Ian Plant
Yeah.

00:04:35.79
Seth Macey
You start getting frustrated. You start shooting poorly. How do you kind of get out of that trap? um Maybe you've been there from experience and you've learned how to kind of quell that. ah

00:04:45.82
Ian Plant
yeah

00:04:45.85
Seth Macey
Maybe you have some thoughts on that.

00:04:48.09
Ian Plant
Oh, yeah, absolutely. And I've definitely been there. I've definitely been on trips that took a huge investment of my time and money. And I feel like if I can walk away with one image that I'm really happy with, then it's a successful trip, no matter what.

00:05:01.74
Seth Macey
Right. right

00:05:02.50
Ian Plant
But sometimes even then, you don't really get that. And I think it's important to shoot what the scene or the subject offers you. So when you're on a photo shoot, you know you definitely have something in mind, what you want to get, some sort of expectation.

00:05:18.87
Ian Plant
And when the conditions aren't aligning with that expectation, that's when you get frustrated. That's when you get disappointed. But for me personally, i just sort of reset my expectations. I just put it all aside and I say, all right, well, what, what is being offered to me?

00:05:32.08
Ian Plant
What is it that I can do while I'm here and just embrace it no matter what it is, even if it's something that is a little bit out of your wheelhouse, even if it's something a little bit different than what you typically do.

00:05:42.57
Ian Plant
I was on a photo trip to Madagascar a few years ago with a colleague of mine and, um,

00:05:46.47
Seth Macey
Right.

00:05:49.84
Ian Plant
we had the opportunity to do some night walks to look for wildlife in the dark. And my colleague wasn't interested. He said, I don't do night photography. So he didn't go and I i embraced it because it was what was offered.

00:06:02.88
Ian Plant
And even though it's not something I do a lot of myself, um those were some of the best photos I made on the trip was the animals that I discovered at night.

00:06:08.58
Seth Macey
Right.

00:06:10.14
Ian Plant
So, you know, the lesson that I learned there was embrace what the scene or the subject offers you. And that's how you can make better photos even when the photo shoot isn't going according to plan.

00:06:24.71
Seth Macey
Yeah, I'll say one more thing, Aaron, before I let you jump in. It's interesting how we can put ourselves into boxes with such limiting beliefs. I'm not trying to trying to dump on your colleague here, but saying, you know, I don't do night photography. You're going miss out on a lot of opportunity if you carry that mindset throughout other areas of your life.

00:06:42.63
Ian Plant
Yeah, and i you know I don't mean to dump on him either. I just think it's a a really good example, really nice A-B b test where you know he did one thing and I did the other, and I think I was better off for it.

00:06:46.82
Seth Macey
It is a good example, for sure.

00:06:53.17
Seth Macey
For sure, Aaron.

00:06:53.89
Ian Plant
Yeah.

00:06:55.54
Aaron
Yeah, while you guys were talking, I'm just going through all your your photos and they're they're amazing. And a few thoughts that I'm thinking as I'm going through there is like, there are a lot of good photos on Instagram and you run into a lot of good photos, even from hobbyists.

00:07:04.22
Seth Macey
Thank you.

00:07:11.71
Aaron
ah But there is a difference between someone that's been doing this a long time and and has loved it and been passionate about it for many, many years versus someone that does have nice equipment, does have an expensive vacation or the opportunities to go on a safari or whatnot.

00:07:29.54
Aaron
So I guess my question is, where where is that leap from the good photo to something or many that are on your on your page?

00:07:36.82
Seth Macey
you

00:07:40.27
Aaron
Like for you as a photographer, what are you what is that photo that you're very excited about, the one that you leave with? What are the ah entities of it?

00:07:53.01
Ian Plant
Well, that that's a very short question that begs a very long answer. So I'll try not to get too deeply into it, like what makes a good photo or what makes a great photo.

00:07:58.97
Aaron
Well, we have a while so

00:08:05.43
Aaron
to you.

00:08:05.44
Ian Plant
I think the the short answer is a great photo is something that shows people something they haven't seen before. And I don't mean that in a completely literal sense. I don't mean that you need to go to the ends of the earth, deep into the wilderness to find the one mountain that no person has ever seen and take a photograph of that.

00:08:24.66
Ian Plant
I think it's something that is more internal. It's it's about... having a creative vision that is unique. It's about seeing things in a way that's different from the way people typically see them or perceive them.

00:08:38.63
Ian Plant
And if you can make viewers see that, if you can take a photo from a unique angle, a unique perspective, capture a unique moment and show them something that they've never thought of seeing before, just, you know, something that makes them stop and say, oh wow, what's going on here?

00:08:41.70
Seth Macey
you

00:08:56.26
Ian Plant
I think that is ah photograph that's going to cut through all the noise and is going to reach out and grab the viewer's attention and hopefully forge a connection with them.

00:09:06.74
Ian Plant
So i'm I'm always personally striving to capture photographs that reflect my own unique personal style, my my unique creative vision, and to to create photographs that challenge the viewer and defy their expectations.

00:09:26.85
Aaron
That's a good answer.

00:09:27.96
Seth Macey
Yeah, I think naturally to what you said, showing people something they haven't seen before or in a light that they haven't really expected to see it in naturally is going to draw longer attention to an image.

00:09:43.28
Ian Plant
Yeah.

00:09:44.01
Seth Macey
ah and um And perhaps maybe the longer somebody spends on an image, perhaps that maybe makes it a better photo, surely just because it's garnered their interest longer.

00:09:56.57
Seth Macey
i mean, that's what the entire social media algorithm runs on.

00:09:56.64
Ian Plant
and

00:09:59.29
Seth Macey
I mean, and people exploit that with ridiculous rage bait and stuff. But do you think that perhaps a good photo is synonymous with time spent on it from the viewer?

00:10:03.11
Ian Plant
yeah

00:10:09.65
Ian Plant
hi I think it's a rough proxy. i mean I think ultimately you are trying to create a visual reaction. So you want the viewer to be unable to tear their eyes away.

00:10:21.31
Ian Plant
And you do that through composition and through the creative use of light and color.

00:10:21.74
Seth Macey
Right.

00:10:26.66
Ian Plant
But I also think you want to create an emotional connection. So you might do that through capturing a magical moment or telling a story about your subject. And so ultimately, if you do either or both of these things, if you create that that visual and that emotional tether with the viewer, I think that they're going to be drawn to your photo longer. They're going to be drawn back to it again.

00:10:51.10
Ian Plant
And, you know you know, you mentioned social media, and I think that's a good counterexample. Like a lot of social media is driven by the ability to get someone to click onto something. and And a lot of times that interaction is very short-lived.

00:11:03.50
Ian Plant
You know, they see like, you know, they see a photo on Instagram that looks great as the thumbnail, they click on it, look at it bigger. They're like, wow, that's amazing. um and And so you're definitely trying to create that short-term reaction from people.

00:11:15.64
Ian Plant
But I think the really successful photos are the ones that generate a more long-term reaction, you know, so that The person who's looking at the photo isn't just clicking on it really quickly and then scrolling to the next one. They they pause, they linger.

00:11:29.23
Ian Plant
They have a deeper experience with the photo. And I think that that's why I think that the time that they spend looking at it is a very good proxy for the those sorts of connections that you've made with them.

00:11:40.55
Seth Macey
right do you have any principles for creating imagery that invites that long-term viewing

00:11:49.06
Ian Plant
Yes. I mean, I think it does start with a good composition, a really strong visual design. You know, that's how you command the viewer's eye and invite the viewer to explore the entire photograph.

00:12:00.96
Ian Plant
And so creating that visceral visual reaction is is really the first step.

00:12:05.33
Seth Macey
Okay.

00:12:06.50
Ian Plant
And, you know, a lot goes into that. A lot goes into the composition. So color and light can be a part of that experience as well. And the other aspect is telling a story with your photographs. I think it's important to invite the viewer to create their own story. You don't have to tell the real story with a photograph. You don't even have to force the viewer to see a specific story.

00:12:28.50
Ian Plant
I think it's enough to create like a sense of mystery in your photographs so that they start the to the storytelling process and that encourages that connection with them.

00:12:37.04
Seth Macey
Right.

00:12:40.56
Seth Macey
Yeah. Almost leaving the ambiguous at times.

00:12:42.86
Ian Plant
Exactly, yeah.

00:12:44.53
Aaron
Yeah. And the the first viewer is you, right? So as you're designing and post editing and ah you're, you're the first viewer that has to get through but we've talked about before, a few hurdles. And I'm curious about that too. Like the, you've obviously traveled a lot, hiked a lot, seen a lot of things, the emotional attachment to how difficult this photo was to capture versus is this a good photo on its own?

00:13:13.16
Aaron
And kind of separating those, or do those intertwine with your creation and feeling about photos?

00:13:22.28
Ian Plant
Well, that's a great question, but I also like the way you put that. I don't think anyone's ever phrased it to me that way, that the photographer is the first viewer of the photo. And I think that's important because I think that when you as a photographer are excited about what you're doing, that's usually a pretty good indication that you're onto something, that you've got something that might work.

00:13:35.24
Seth Macey
What?

00:13:42.84
Ian Plant
um And so I know I've got a pretty high threshold for getting very excited about some things I'm doing. um So I'm hoping that that high threshold sets up that image for success.

00:13:53.95
Ian Plant
um But, you know, then you asked about whether my emotional experience as the photographer to capture the image, how how that factors in, if at all, in my impression of the image.

00:14:08.65
Ian Plant
And I would say very little, probably none.

00:14:09.99
Seth Macey
Oh,

00:14:12.55
Ian Plant
because yourre your experience, what what you do to get a photo, the fact that maybe you had to hike 40 miles and then lay in the mud for three hours while it was raining on you, and then you know having bugs bite you and all that just to get that photo, that experience doesn't get translated into the photo unless unless you do something to bring that experience into the photo.

00:14:37.27
Ian Plant
um Unless you find a way to get creative with the composition or the storytelling in the photo so that that experience that you're having gets translated to the viewer. but But that experience really doesn't find its way into the photo when you take the photo.

00:14:50.94
Ian Plant
And you know some of my most successful photos have been really easy to capture. you know They might've been five feet off the road or something like that.

00:14:59.70
Seth Macey
Right.

00:14:59.85
Ian Plant
And that doesn't diminish them at all. um And it doesn't diminish the the the story that those photos tell.

00:15:01.82
Aaron
no

00:15:05.13
Ian Plant
And so like you know a good example of of injecting your own story into the photo, ah which I think is important. I think the photographer shouldn't just be a bystander. The photographer needs to be an active participant in the creation process.

00:15:20.57
Ian Plant
you know So you're not just reacting to what's going on, you're you're taking an active role in deciding where to stand in the moment you trigger the shutter. ah you know with certain genres of photography, you actually work with your subject and give them commands and directions.

00:15:33.10
Ian Plant
um But you know here's ah here's a good example of trying to inject the experience into a photo.

00:15:37.69
Seth Macey
right.

00:15:39.12
Ian Plant
I was photographing mountain gorillas in Rwanda, and I had this idea in my head that I would get a photo of this mysterious animal. I would be just getting a glimpse of it, looking through the jungle, and it would just be something really, really mysterious.

00:15:54.32
Ian Plant
And the reality was a bit different. um It was you know difficult trekking in the jungle to find the gorillas, but once you found them, they tended to be in the clearings in the jungle out the open more. ah That's the area that they like to be in. And so I wasn't getting this this mysterious story that I thought I was going to get.

00:16:09.95
Ian Plant
And so what I did is when there was a gorilla that was relatively close to me, just on the ground eating some grass and leaves and bamboo shoots or whatever it was eating, I saw this this small bush that was on the ground. And so I got down to the bush.

00:16:25.81
Ian Plant
And I found a gap in the leaves and I shot through that using the leaves that were just a few inches away from my lens as an out of focus blur that was framing the gorilla. And so i I injected, I intentionally injected that story that was kind of in my head um into the photograph to make it a much more interesting and mysterious photo.

00:16:38.41
Seth Macey
Okay.

00:16:45.26
Ian Plant
So you just see a glimpse of the gorilla's eyes through this screen of leaves that is rendered as ah as an artistic blur of color around the gorilla. And so I injected that story into the photograph.

00:16:58.42
Ian Plant
And without doing that, the story that I would have been getting would have been much less interesting.

00:17:04.83
Aaron
I think you just keep, i mean, that could be the difference between someone capturing photos versus someone creating photos.

00:17:13.24
Seth Macey
Thank you.

00:17:14.33
Aaron
And it's, it's a big difference. So people that are listening, and again, I think we tend to have beginners or kind of starting off photographers that are really excited about photography and listening in, uh, and some long time listeners, of course.

00:17:16.55
Ian Plant
Yeah.

00:17:28.56
Aaron
Uh, and we thank you, but I guess the point being when you're taking that next step is it's not just capturing those moments and, and and calling it a day. It's sometimes creating those moments and being an artist and setting it up. And I think that's a big difference when you look at people that have been doing this for a long time versus people that either just go out a ton and get lucky or,

00:17:55.36
Aaron
or just have many moments where they can capture very great moments and great animals and great landscapes because they're there. But the difference being, oh, that's a different look of Yosemite.

00:18:08.40
Aaron
I've never seen that before versus the the parking lot outlook where you see the whole valley, right? Like someone, I don't know, taking, going through the pine tree to get that, that waterfall, firefall, whatever it may be, something just different.

00:18:15.03
Seth Macey
you

00:18:15.22
Ian Plant
Yeah.

00:18:23.37
Aaron
And I think, I think you keyed into that and you can see that in your work for sure.

00:18:27.66
Ian Plant
Yeah, and I think you put it really well. Ansel Adams once famously said that you don't take a photograph, you make it. And I think the photographer has to be involved in the creative process.

00:18:37.88
Ian Plant
And so one thing I see a lot is when I see other photographers out in the field, they get to a spot, they set up their tripod, they put their camera on the tripod and they take a bunch of pictures. They never move from that first spot.

00:18:50.38
Seth Macey
All right.

00:18:51.23
Ian Plant
And I think that to be making photographs, to be injecting your personal artistry into the final photographs. You've got to be moving around. You've got to be looking for an interesting perspective or a point of view so that you can share more of the experience you're having as a photographer with the viewer.

00:19:12.05
Ian Plant
And if you don't do that, if you just react to what's going on and take some snapshots, then um and then I think your photos are never really going to rise above.

00:19:20.79
Seth Macey
Yeah, i was just about to ask, or else what?

00:19:20.97
Aaron
back. ah

00:19:22.79
Seth Macey
I mean, if I don't move, um if i if I'm that hypothetical person, I don't move around. I was going to say, or so, then you just said it. Well, you're you're maybe never going to have that dynamic look across your portfolio.

00:19:34.56
Aaron
Yeah. And back to Ansel Adam time. I'm curious if modern technology, when i put a card in there and I have 1500 photos to take, it takes away from the intentionality of versus I've 30 something clicks of film.

00:19:53.76
Aaron
So now I really want to be very precise and slow and kind of accurate with what exactly I'm doing with this film before I

00:19:57.54
Seth Macey
right.

00:20:04.03
Ian Plant
Mm-hmm.

00:20:04.80
Aaron
it's gone and I have to develop it and pay for that versus could just take a 200 photos right here, maybe 300, maybe 400 and click through until there's one that I like. Uh, I'm curious about that too, just the mindset of equipment and how that's changed sort of the intentionality and how do we get some of that back and any thoughts on that for either of you?

00:20:29.46
Seth Macey
Well, I have a thought right off the bat. If we're ever going to make a product, I know what it's goingnna the first product is going to be. It's going be a high-performing SD card that's 500 megabytes in size.

00:20:39.84
Seth Macey
That's a training card.

00:20:43.33
Aaron
I like it.

00:20:44.18
Seth Macey
Pop this in your camera and give yourself a nice restriction on your next outing.

00:20:49.89
Aaron
Yeah.

00:20:50.72
Seth Macey
with the all the...

00:20:50.83
Aaron
Ten photos.

00:20:52.16
Seth Macey
You get 10. But you're not paying for film.

00:20:55.54
Aaron
Right.

00:20:55.91
Seth Macey
swear, it don't take... It's probably a horrible business idea. I'd love to pitch that one to investors.............

00:21:00.30
Aaron
Yeah. Yeah.

00:21:03.30
Ian Plant
What, you know, it's funny because when I first started off, before I turned pro, I was an amateur for 10 years. And for a considerable amount of that time, I shot with one of the old style, large format cameras like Ansel Adams.

00:21:16.55
Ian Plant
And it was very slow, ponderous, heavy, and expensive to do that kind of photography. And when I switched over to digital and basically had unlimited image making at my disposal for the first time ever, I found it to be liberating.

00:21:34.56
Ian Plant
And I do strongly believe that you've got to work the scene or the subject that you're photographing. And you can't just...

00:21:45.58
Ian Plant
David Price- there, you know, take a few shots and then move on.

00:21:45.67
Seth Macey
Thank

00:21:48.35
Ian Plant
It's something where you have to Price- trying different things, different positions, different angles. You know, one shot leads to the next. It's an iterative process. so And so i find being able to shoot as much as I want without having to worry about running out of film or or spending too much money. i find that to be really helpful for the creative process. But I think you're right.

00:22:11.02
Ian Plant
I think with some people, it it might encourage them to be a bit lazy about what they're doing and to so just, as they say, spray and pray.

00:22:17.96
Seth Macey
All right.

00:22:20.73
Ian Plant
um And I think that it's a good idea to know what you want to do. It's a good idea to have that intention, as you put it earlier, and to shoot intentionally.

00:22:31.73
Ian Plant
But to fully embrace the ease with which you can use a digital camera to very, very quickly reframe, to try different things, and to shoot as much as you want without worrying about running out of film.

00:22:44.64
Ian Plant
film

00:22:46.85
Seth Macey
I think what you just said about intent is very important to avoid the scenario that you described earlier where you just show up on scene, sit there for an hour, don't move and leave when you could have captured a lot more.

00:23:02.20
Seth Macey
think it's important to maybe go in with the intention of, okay, um I want just a clean, simple photograph to start.

00:23:11.24
Seth Macey
And then I'll move around. I say this just because i feel like, and I'm i'm sure both of you have thoughts on this. I don't want this conversation to potentially make a beginner an intermediate think, oh, I've got to be extremely artsy all the time.

00:23:27.99
Seth Macey
Right? Because sometimes i don't want there to be confusion between, am I trying to say?

00:23:30.90
Aaron
Mm

00:23:38.19
Seth Macey
people feel like they need to do so much and be extremely artistic for it to be good photo. Sometimes less can be more, but the intent should be there.

00:23:45.28
Ian Plant
yeah

00:23:46.66
Seth Macey
Does that make sense?

00:23:48.61
Ian Plant
Yeah, absolutely. um And, you know, I tell people, you start off, you get your back pocket shot. it's It's the shot, the clean, simple shot that you're looking for. Once you've got that in your back pocket, you're ready to move on and try to get more creative and more artistic or whatever it is you want to do.

00:24:02.15
Seth Macey
Right.

00:24:05.32
Ian Plant
You know, so like when you show up on your first African safari and you see the lion, you You get that shot of the line. You just get that simple shot.

00:24:13.36
Seth Macey
Yes.

00:24:14.14
Ian Plant
Once you've got that shot in your back pocket, you can then start getting more creative.

00:24:18.83
Seth Macey
Exactly. Which I think is important to say because if you took the, I have to make the image.

00:24:19.73
Aaron
Mm-hmm.

00:24:24.38
Seth Macey
If you took that very far, you could be, ah that line, I got figure out how to get a nice lens flare or I got curl a leaf and like frame it around the leaf and you could end up just walking away with with garbage, right?

00:24:35.47
Seth Macey
Because you actually didn't capture the fundamentals. So it's a bit of an art and a dance, I think, right? Yeah. And I think the word intent is what's important. i I want to create or just capture to start a simple, plain photograph as opposed to just shooting aimlessly like the trap, you know, that's a trap you can fall into.

00:24:56.90
Ian Plant
Yeah, and I think that's where thinking of it as an iterative process comes in. You know one, as I said earlier, one shot leads to the next.

00:25:00.75
Seth Macey
Right.

00:25:03.40
Ian Plant
So you start off with that basic shot. And then you take a moment, step back figuratively and ask yourself, well, what can I do to make this more interesting? And then you just keep on trying new things, pushing the envelope more and more creatively until you get in the zone and you start making really interesting images.

00:25:22.53
Seth Macey
Right, right, exactly.

00:25:26.38
Seth Macey
Um, I wanted to ask you this. So you consider yourself a successful photographer, right? It's fair to say at this point, 25 minutes into the conversation.

00:25:34.33
Ian Plant
I'd like to, yeah.

00:25:35.42
Seth Macey
Okay, great.

00:25:36.97
Aaron
Hmm.

00:25:37.19
Seth Macey
That was a very, my, you know, groundbreaking question. Uh, but I'm going somewhere at this. Okay. So you said that you're you're a successful photographer. You also said in my initial DM to you on Instagram, just cause that's the method of conversation I like to use when, when acquiring guests said, Hey, I don't spend much time on here.

00:25:56.01
Seth Macey
Okay, so you're successful, you're professional, you don't spend much time on here. not trying to load a question, but why is that?

00:26:02.78
Ian Plant
I think social media is a giant time suck.

00:26:06.41
Seth Macey
Okay.

00:26:07.60
Ian Plant
And when I say i don't spend a lot of time on social media, I literally mean I don't spend any time on social media. I actually have a, a social media person who handles my social media accounts.

00:26:18.11
Ian Plant
So I give her the images, you know, I give her the text of the post, but she's the one who manages it for me.

00:26:18.59
Seth Macey
Nice.

00:26:24.56
Ian Plant
And part the reason why I feel that way is that i early on, I was very active on social media, embraced it as much as I could. And it was a little, a little disappointing because every time I would build up a sizable presence on a social media account,

00:26:43.41
Ian Plant
the the owner of the social media company would do something to just completely pull the the rug out from under its um you know popular people on um the account. And you know so like you know Facebook was a perfect example. I was very active on Facebook early on when Facebook was a big thing and built up a very sizable following. But then Facebook changed the algorithms and made it more and more difficult for me to connect with the people who were following me to the point where now i I think it's probably virtually useless.

00:27:11.93
Ian Plant
um And so i I tend not to focus on on social media that much. you know it's It's a part of my business. it's It's something that I know has to be done.

00:27:22.52
Ian Plant
My social media manager is always getting on my case for not doing enough.

00:27:24.37
Seth Macey
Thank you.

00:27:27.19
Ian Plant
um But I also feel like it distracts from, A, from the photography that I'm doing, and B, from finding ways to make more meaningful connections with ah potential clients.

00:27:41.64
Ian Plant
And so I focus more of my my energy on the business side, trying to find ways to get direct relationships with potential clients and to forge a stronger connection with them.

00:27:53.60
Seth Macey
Right, so that's priority.

00:27:54.93
Ian Plant
yeah

00:27:55.97
Seth Macey
What is your list of priorities, if you don't mind me asking? Hopefully that's not too personal.

00:28:01.91
Ian Plant
I think the number one list of priority is to make the best photos that I can make. The number two priority is to make the best photos that I can make.

00:28:07.33
Seth Macey
Okay.

00:28:10.04
Ian Plant
I can keep going on, but I think you get the picture. um I'm pretty much very much focused on photography. It's been an all-consuming passion for me. It's been a profession for 20 passion 30 years, you know passion for thirty years And I don't find that the passion diminishes with time. It just keeps getting stronger and stronger.

00:28:28.21
Ian Plant
So it's pretty much all I do and all I think about.

00:28:31.20
Seth Macey
Right. I mean, that's nice that it just grows stronger and stronger. I think often it fades and fades for people or it comes in big ebbs and flows, which can be unnerving. Is it safe to say for you that...

00:28:44.58
Seth Macey
I think you're, I forget exactly how you phrased it, but your, your priority is to make the best photograph you can possibly make. Is everything else a consequence of that? Or do you have to deliberately dedicate attention to certain sides of the business? Uh, I mean, obviously you do, but I'm, I'm curious to hear your, how you approach the balance between art and i need to make a living out of this, or this needs to generate me income.

00:29:14.14
Ian Plant
It's a very delicate balance.

00:29:16.31
Seth Macey
you

00:29:16.65
Ian Plant
And it's often that the flip sides of of this often seem mutually exclusive. You know, you don't you don't make money in the field making photographs.

00:29:27.28
Ian Plant
you You spend money then. But you need to make those photographs so that you can make money.

00:29:29.22
Seth Macey
right

00:29:32.28
Ian Plant
And so you need to dedicate time when you're not in the field to figuring out ways to to monetize what you're doing. And these days, you know with a lot of nature photographers in particular, that means finding people to join me on photo workshops and tours.

00:29:48.18
Ian Plant
um And you know I also have photo education business where I'm selling eBooks and instructional videos.

00:29:54.15
Seth Macey
Thank you.

00:29:56.74
Ian Plant
So you know finding photography enthusiasts who want to learn from me. And so I have to spend a lot of time developing both of those businesses so that I can have time for myself to make the photos that I want.

00:30:11.06
Ian Plant
And they they seem to be in tension. you know when i When I'm running a photo workshop, I'm not necessarily free to do my own photography. I'm with my clients. I'm there to instruct my clients. I may be in a location that I've been to many times before, and I've got a very mature portfolio of that location.

00:30:27.30
Ian Plant
So I'm not really doing as much shooting or doing the shooting that I would want to be doing.

00:30:27.59
Seth Macey
Right.

00:30:33.24
Ian Plant
um and But you need to do that to be able to have the time and money to do the photography that you really want. But if you focus too much on the business side, then you're not getting out doing your own photography. Instead, you're you're just doing the photography that's required for the business.

00:30:50.47
Ian Plant
And you need those images that that really resonate with yourself personally, but that also resonate with others. You need those images to promote the business side of things.

00:31:01.16
Ian Plant
So you've got to find the kind of the sweet spot.

00:31:01.29
Seth Macey
Right.

00:31:04.85
Ian Plant
you know I know some photographers who focus almost exclusively on the business side of things. And they've got very successful businesses, but they're really not out making the photos that they want to make. And I know some photographers that are out there chasing images all the time, but their businesses are not thriving.

00:31:22.11
Ian Plant
And so finding that sweet spot in between where where I've got enough

00:31:25.15
Seth Macey
right

00:31:26.12
Ian Plant
time to do the photography that I want, but I've also got enough resources to keep the business afloat. ah That's always a challenge. And some years i I find that sweet spot better than other years.

00:31:36.83
Ian Plant
So it's a little bit of back and forth with experimentation.

00:31:37.76
Seth Macey
Yeah, i was going to say, I bet that sweet spot changes. What's kind of the average ratio been for you over the past maybe five years between the two?

00:31:45.20
Ian Plant
but you know Yeah, I mean, I think I'm generally out making photos probably about 35, 40% the year. And would say

00:31:52.12
Seth Macey
Right.

00:31:52.16
Ian Plant
um and i would say I've tried to to have it so that half of those trips are personal photo trips and the other half with clients. But I think probably right now the mix is at about 60 to 70% of my time is spent with clients in the field.

00:32:09.63
Ian Plant
And maybe only about 30% of that is is my personal photography time. But I do think it's important to carve out as much of that personal photography time as possible.

00:32:20.62
Seth Macey
Fair. Very fair.

00:32:21.44
Aaron
yeah It would.

00:32:22.83
Seth Macey
um Have you been tempted by video?

00:32:25.96
Ian Plant
to To do video, artistic video?

00:32:27.32
Seth Macey
Yeah. Yeah.

00:32:29.49
Ian Plant
um I like video um and i I do a lot of videos for my photo instruction, um but I try to minimize anything that distracts from my photography.

00:32:41.71
Ian Plant
So taking up artistic video, I think would would be something that would just take up too much time and energy. So I have resisted the temptation of video, even though I enjoy it very much.

00:32:52.68
Seth Macey
Yeah, I think think it's just maybe a thought that naturally comes to many people who spend a lot of time on socials.

00:32:52.71
Aaron
They very much would.

00:33:01.93
Seth Macey
Just with the way the platforms have changed, it's almost like, well, I already have my camera. i just maybe should as well being to should as well do video, right?

00:33:13.83
Seth Macey
ah But it's interesting to hear. No, I like my medium. I like my format. So I'm not going to bother with it.

00:33:20.09
Ian Plant
Well, I definitely think a lot of younger people view themselves as content creators.

00:33:20.40
Aaron
Yeah, and

00:33:24.01
Ian Plant
And so that's photos, videos, stories, et cetera.

00:33:24.11
Seth Macey
Right.

00:33:26.84
Ian Plant
um And so I never really viewed myself that way.

00:33:27.08
Seth Macey
and

00:33:31.66
Ian Plant
Coming up before social media became a thing, i was a photographer. And so I'm i'm staying true to that. But yeah, I mean, every now and then I think about

00:33:37.95
Seth Macey
Yeah.

00:33:40.88
Ian Plant
Kevin Nielsen, becoming broader content creator, but I find that so much energy is required to really make the photographs that I want to make to perform at that level that anything that distracts from that is something that is just not a good thing for me to be doing so i've tried to stay focused.

00:33:49.11
Seth Macey
Yeah.

00:33:56.93
Seth Macey
i was yeah I was just going to say, I really feel for people who have one leg over the fence on the side of content creation and one leg um over the on the side of photography. I'm not saying you have to be one or the other, but you see so often people can't identify what they are. What am I?

00:34:15.85
Seth Macey
What am I doing?

00:34:16.07
Aaron
yeah

00:34:16.57
Seth Macey
Am I a content creator?

00:34:16.97
Ian Plant
yeah

00:34:19.34
Seth Macey
Am I an artist? And i I think that just being kind of half in on each can pull you apart if you really are unsure of who you are.

00:34:30.98
Aaron
Well, there's a great analogy here. the Recently there's been this singer songwriter that's getting absolutely crushed on the internet for making this scene happen at a party where he's singing acoustic and it's very emotional and everyone's kind of filming it.

00:34:49.15
Aaron
And a lot of people are speaking out on like, this is not songwriting. This is like production. Right.

00:34:56.56
Ian Plant
Mm-hmm.

00:34:56.76
Aaron
Right. And i I think there's this tear and as many interviews as we've done, and as long as we've been on the show and in talking about it, there is a distinction between someone that's truly an artist and someone that's like riding the social media wave with content creation and getting likes and what's viral now.

00:34:59.77
Seth Macey
All right.

00:35:15.31
Aaron
And how can I break through and how can I make a scene here? Which again, if that's what you want to do, that's fine. But confusing the two or thinking you're one and not the other or both or whatever.

00:35:28.92
Aaron
ah There definitely is a difference between people that view themselves as professional photographers and like, oh, Instagram. Yeah. Well, I don't really care about that. You know, like that's a very common sort of vibe from people that are really into photography as an art form versus content creation or being viral or making cool things.

00:35:38.28
Seth Macey
Yeah.

00:35:39.04
Ian Plant
Yeah.

00:35:52.74
Ian Plant
ah Yeah. And I think maybe the way I think about it is that you just have to ask yourself what kind of artist you want to be, um you know, without, without getting too haughty about like what's art and what's not art.

00:36:04.47
Ian Plant
You know, art is, there's a lot of things that that you can consider to be art and, you know, whether something is good art or bad art, I think is, you know, up to the ah consumer of that art.

00:36:14.76
Seth Macey
Right. Right.

00:36:16.15
Ian Plant
um But, you know, like being it, it a viral Instagram content creator is an art in and of itself, I suppose.

00:36:23.29
Aaron
Right. Mm-hmm.

00:36:23.38
Seth Macey
ray

00:36:23.78
Ian Plant
You know, like figuring out how to connect with people and, you know, to like, to to make that work it is ah is a distinct type of art, ah but it's a different art from what I'm doing.

00:36:35.00
Ian Plant
And so, you know, i made the decision a long time ago that I'm a photographer, ah not something else, and that I'm ah more of a traditional photographer. I'm not really someone who embraces this extreme computer manipulation.

00:36:48.80
Ian Plant
you know, I'm not going to be an AI photographer, whatever that means. That's going to be a thing. um you know So I know exactly what type of art I want to specialize in. and But that's okay.

00:36:59.58
Ian Plant
If people make a different choice and choose to be something else, that's okay as well. I mean, it's all it all kind of enriches the human experience.

00:37:03.77
Seth Macey
Right.

00:37:08.49
Seth Macey
Yeah, it's a really good point that it's just different forms of art.

00:37:09.71
Aaron
Mm-hmm.

00:37:11.50
Seth Macey
And I think, again, what's important is knowing what you are, whether you're a hybrid of one of of those two things or if you're leaning way more towards being a photographer or a content creator.

00:37:22.86
Seth Macey
I think just kind of figure out what ah what am my trying to do? what Who am I?

00:37:27.64
Ian Plant
Yeah.

00:37:28.10
Seth Macey
I wonder how many people stop and ask that question.

00:37:32.81
Ian Plant
Well, it's.

00:37:32.89
Seth Macey
You know, back to our point of, yeah, I think we start we often just turn our brains off, right?

00:37:33.31
Ian Plant
Hmm.

00:37:37.95
Seth Macey
I mean, going back to the example of you get to a location, you stand in one spot and you just shoot and shoot and shoot for whatever reason. That's almost subconscious.

00:37:51.07
Seth Macey
maybe people Maybe people just, that's the only photograph they want. Maybe they're trying to capture and every World Heritage site in the world or something, and they're trying to do in a year. you don't know to To that point, you don't know what people are trying to do, right? So fair.

00:38:03.65
Seth Macey
ah But I just do think that a lot of the time we're on autopilot, and trying to get ourselves out of autopilot is ah difficult but useful.

00:38:16.28
Ian Plant
Yeah. Well, I laugh at the question that you just ponder, you know, what am I? I laugh because i actually ask that question to myself all the time. ah the The way I phrase it is, you know what's the point of me?

00:38:26.24
Seth Macey
How often?

00:38:30.09
Ian Plant
whats What's the point of what I'm doing? And

00:38:31.92
Seth Macey
Right.

00:38:32.58
Ian Plant
i actually I struggle with this. It's kind of like an ongoing existential crisis for me.

00:38:37.70
Seth Macey
Yep.

00:38:37.75
Ian Plant
ah you know Constantly asking myself, what is it that I'm trying to do with my photography? you know Part of it is like figuring out how to stand out and you know be unique to have something that's a little bit different, something that doesn't get lost in the million Instagram photographers that are all doing the same thing.

00:38:54.48
Ian Plant
um' put But you know part of it is really more more holistic. It's just, you know, what what am I doing? but hand well Why am I doing this with my life? You know, what what is it I'm trying to accomplish? What is it that I'm i'm trying to show people?

00:39:07.62
Ian Plant
What's the point of it all? And, you know, i think I think it is an important question to ask. And, you know, I try not to get too serious about it. I take it with a grain of salt and try to have a sense of humor about it. Because sometimes my my answer, when I ask myself, what's the point of me?

00:39:22.33
Ian Plant
The answer is, there is no point to you. Just have fun and, you know, do what you enjoy doing.

00:39:26.03
Aaron
Yeah.

00:39:26.91
Seth Macey
Welcome to the matrix.

00:39:28.07
Ian Plant
Yeah.

00:39:28.34
Aaron
Yeah.

00:39:28.40
Seth Macey
well

00:39:29.57
Aaron
Yeah.

00:39:30.26
Seth Macey
When you start asking those questions, if you never have, it's unsettling.

00:39:34.69
Ian Plant
Yeah.

00:39:35.64
Seth Macey
It's very unsettling. How often are you asking yourself these questions?

00:39:38.72
Ian Plant
Well, i I think it's a problem when you ask yourself that question on a daily basis. So

00:39:42.76
Seth Macey
Oh, oops.

00:39:45.14
Aaron
Whoops.

00:39:45.74
Seth Macey
Oops.

00:39:46.55
Aaron
Oopsie daisies.

00:39:47.03
Ian Plant
I wake up every morning.

00:39:49.23
Aaron
Yeah.

00:39:49.75
Seth Macey
Hey, like to be honest, that thought crosses my mind more often than it maybe should. Definitely daily and not just with photography. just even before and

00:39:59.25
Ian Plant
Mm-hmm.

00:40:02.01
Seth Macey
I think it can bring with it a lot of existential dread or anxiety, but you learn you do learn to manage that. I will say that I would prefer that over never asking myself those questions and kind of just floating through not That's not fair. Not floating through life, but I like that level of awareness.

00:40:21.01
Seth Macey
I do because I feel like it allows me to better dictate the direction I want my life to head based on purpose, which for me is, is a good trade off.

00:40:31.09
Ian Plant
Yeah. Yeah.

00:40:35.53
Seth Macey
The anxiety is a good trade off that it brings. you know I'm not sitting every day, like shaking in my boots with anxiety by no means, but it it's, and it can be unsettling.

00:40:41.05
Ian Plant
yeah

00:40:43.39
Seth Macey
Uh, but like even just before we started recording this podcast, like the thought just naturally popped to my head. What are you trying to do with this episode with Ian and Aaron today?

00:40:51.98
Ian Plant
yeah

00:40:52.49
Seth Macey
Uh, But I feel like that gives you better direction. it gives it it naturally breeds intent. It naturally ah potentially encourages enthusiasm for the for the event or action you're about to undertake. And I also think it allows you to evaluate if you're still having a good time doing what you're doing or if it's time for a pivot.

00:41:15.67
Ian Plant
yeah

00:41:17.62
Aaron
Yeah.

00:41:18.40
Ian Plant
Yeah. Yeah, I think it's necessary when you're engaged in the act of creating art, you know whether whether it's the art of photography or the art of of creating an engaging podcast.

00:41:26.22
Seth Macey
Right.

00:41:31.44
Ian Plant
you know Really, You have to be asking the deep questions. You have to be thinking the big thoughts because it gives you something to strive for. it it It's what pushes you forward to doing something more interesting.

00:41:45.35
Ian Plant
And, you know, having that purpose, having that intent and bringing ah some mental discipline to what you're doing, I think, is is really important to pushing that creative envelope. and standing out as a result.

00:41:56.66
Ian Plant
So yeah, i you know, I never approached this question with, I love that phrase, existential dread. I think it's a, it's a question that I'm glad that I'm able to ask that question.

00:42:06.74
Ian Plant
You know, it's part of the privilege of living in our modern society where we have this, you know, wonderful ah economic structure that, that allows us to, to be artists, to, to explore this creative side of things and, and still make a living from it.

00:42:21.74
Seth Macey
Yeah.

00:42:21.81
Ian Plant
I mean, it's an amazing thing and I'm glad to be able to do that. And you know certainly the approach that I have with with nature as you know part of my artistic process is is also part of that privilege. in l like People 300 or 400 years ago wouldn't think of nature the way we do. You know, we think of it as this beautiful, awe-inspiring place where we go to seek peace and get away from things.

00:42:45.76
Ian Plant
you know, people 300 years ago would have thought of it as a terrible place that that threatens their life. there

00:42:51.61
Seth Macey
Yeah.

00:42:52.67
Ian Plant
and And so, you know, it's just kind of wonderful that we are alive in a time where we can we can think these thoughts and we can ponder these things and we can explore these things.

00:43:02.92
Seth Macey
Yeah, you're absolutely right about that thing you said where you can you can ask yourself, what's the purpose of what I'm doing? And you get to ah you can get to a place where you realize there isn't any.

00:43:14.86
Aaron
Yeah.

00:43:16.09
Seth Macey
actually did an episode on this, but that's kind of liberating, right? Because then it gives you permission to just have fun with life and pursue what, you know?

00:43:19.09
Ian Plant
but

00:43:21.81
Ian Plant
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. not Not worrying about like what your legacy is going to be. You know, like I've got some older ah photographer friends who who are really concerned about their legacy as they're as they're getting, um you know, more advanced in age.

00:43:33.23
Seth Macey
right

00:43:36.74
Ian Plant
And I'm just like, yeah, don't worry about it. Like in 200 years, 1,000 years, 5,000 years, no one's going to care about any of us that did anything right now.

00:43:44.68
Aaron
yeah

00:43:45.89
Seth Macey
Yeah.

00:43:46.23
Ian Plant
And so that's a bit liberating knowing that you don't have to worry about that.

00:43:50.39
Seth Macey
Yeah. Have you seen the meme? When was the last time you thought about the queen of England? You seen that one? She was the most powerful woman in the world. And a month after she died, no, you weren't, you weren't thinking about her.

00:44:01.23
Aaron
Yeah, that's true.

00:44:01.53
Ian Plant
yeah

00:44:01.55
Seth Macey
yeah Which is crazy. So, I mean, I think part of that, yeah you know, maybe there's a bit of ego death that comes with that, right? That I'm just going to be totally irrelevant in the very near future. So I'm just going to good time.

00:44:17.41
Seth Macey
It took me a while to kind of realize that, to give myself permission to just...

00:44:19.33
Ian Plant
Yeah.

00:44:22.75
Seth Macey
Not everything you you do needs to have incredible purpose, but I think you should have intent.

00:44:27.16
Ian Plant
but

00:44:28.83
Seth Macey
I think purpose and intent are two different things at times. like i think you should have For me personally, I like to have a reason for why I'm doing something, and if that fits into a broader purpose, great.

00:44:41.21
Seth Macey
i just I don't like to aimlessly do things.

00:44:46.20
Ian Plant
Yeah, I think another way of thinking about it is you don't have to have the purpose that society might try to jam down your throat. you can You can find your own purpose.

00:44:55.81
Seth Macey
rights

00:44:57.02
Ian Plant
It can be internal. And, you know, I, in the same way, I like living a life with purpose. I like doing things that I want to do, and i'd like to have a good reason for wanting to do them.

00:45:02.66
Seth Macey
rights

00:45:08.45
Ian Plant
um And, you know, the path that the we've chosen as creative professionals is very different from the path that most people choose in life. um And, you know, I think just, you know, people who have chosen a creative path, whether it's something that they do for a living or something they do on the side as a hobby, something they're enthusiastic about, I think it is different than the path that most most people take.

00:45:31.18
Ian Plant
And, um I mean, I think it's it's a great thing.

00:45:31.48
Seth Macey
Yeah.

00:45:34.52
Ian Plant
And it's ah it's a great thing to want to have that. There's nothing wrong with it. It doesn't necessarily serve any higher purpose or or anything like that, but it serves the purpose of of giving our lives fulfillment and adding a richness to it.

00:45:47.92
Seth Macey
Right.

00:45:49.69
Ian Plant
So I'm all for it.

00:45:51.24
Seth Macey
What did you do prior to photography?

00:45:53.73
Ian Plant
I was in a job that didn't give me ah but purpose or fulfillment or add any richness to my life. I was a lawyer actually for eight years before I became a full-time professional photographer.

00:46:03.91
Seth Macey
Okay.

00:46:07.47
Seth Macey
What kind of lawyer?

00:46:07.57
Aaron
Well,

00:46:08.74
Ian Plant
I did antitrust law, which basically is my job was to help big companies by other big companies to become even bigger companies.

00:46:17.84
Seth Macey
Oh.

00:46:18.71
Ian Plant
Yeah.

00:46:19.14
Seth Macey
Munch, munch, munch. It's like the Russian dolls.

00:46:21.16
Aaron
like yeah.

00:46:25.37
Aaron
Like exciting stuff.

00:46:27.08
Ian Plant
Not really.

00:46:28.03
Aaron
I know. I know.

00:46:29.58
Seth Macey
How did you know it was time for a change?

00:46:32.12
Ian Plant
um I always did. i So the back story is that you know I went to law school right after college. I was young. And i like to joke around that i was I was young. I was foolish. I needed the money.

00:46:45.55
Ian Plant
I didn't know any better. um And I bought my first camera ah when I was in law school. So after my my first year of law school, I worked as an intern in a New York City law firm.

00:46:56.75
Ian Plant
First time in my life that I ever made any real money. So at the end of my summer job with them, before I returned from my second year law school, like Decided to give myself a gift, bought a camera.

00:47:06.90
Seth Macey
Mm-hmm.

00:47:07.23
Ian Plant
And it was a huge mistake.

00:47:10.88
Seth Macey
okay

00:47:11.79
Ian Plant
Because I don was hooked right away.

00:47:14.10
Aaron
Amazing.

00:47:14.95
Ian Plant
But I had this really expensive law school education that I needed to pay for. And so I knew I was going to be working for a while as a lawyer to to pay off my my law school debt.

00:47:26.02
Ian Plant
And so I knew right away. i remember when I started my my first ah full-time job as a lawyer was in Washington, DC. And I told all of the colleagues who were starting with me that I didn't want to be a lawyer, that i wanted to be a professional photographer, and that I was just going to stay around long enough to pay off my law school debt. And then I was going to get out of there.

00:47:47.55
Ian Plant
And they all thought I was crazy. Not a single one of them believed me, but it's what I did.

00:47:53.83
Aaron
It's pretty cool. Yeah.

00:47:54.92
Seth Macey
That is awesome. and Thank you for sharing that.

00:47:57.38
Aaron
yeah

00:47:57.76
Seth Macey
um When you have people in your ear thinking you're crazy or you're the black sheep, what's helpful to continue on the path you're so sure of?

00:48:08.70
Ian Plant
ah this is a great question because this has pretty much been my entire life.

00:48:15.13
Seth Macey
Great.

00:48:15.80
Ian Plant
Yeah, being being on the path that everyone thinks is nuts. um You know, self-confidence, but you know, believing in yourself is is really critical to ignoring those outside voices, you know, so having that clear path in mind.

00:48:30.23
Ian Plant
But it's also dangerous to be self-confident because self-confidence is great is if you...

00:48:33.55
Seth Macey
Right.

00:48:37.86
Ian Plant
actually have the ability and the discipline to achieve what you want. um But it can lead you astray. if If you don't have what it takes to do what you want to do, that self-confidence can can be very self-defeating.

00:48:53.21
Ian Plant
ah But yeah, definitely. So I don't want to tell people that to just be confident in yourself.

00:48:57.94
Seth Macey
right

00:48:58.25
Ian Plant
I think it's a good idea to have measured self-confidence. If you know that there's something you want to do. If you know that you're good enough to do it and you've got the discipline to come up with a plan to make it work, then absolutely be focused on it and implement your plan.

00:49:15.71
Ian Plant
But be flexible and you know don't get discouraged when things don't go your way.

00:49:15.81
Seth Macey
Yeah.

00:49:20.04
Ian Plant
Just try something else and keep going at it until you make it work. But be prepared to step back and question whether you've got what it takes or whether conditions are right to do what you want to do.

00:49:31.95
Ian Plant
Have that self-confidence, but don't always be self-aware at the same time.

00:49:36.63
Seth Macey
Risk management.

00:49:37.90
Ian Plant
Yeah.

00:49:38.21
Aaron
Yeah.

00:49:38.89
Seth Macey
Yeah, I think what you said, though, is very important that you you said to the word you used the word discipline. I think that comes naturally if your why or your reason for changing course is super emotionally compelling.

00:49:52.17
Ian Plant
Hmm.

00:49:53.63
Seth Macey
I mean, if you have a if if your desire, your why is super intense, you're not going to fall off on your plan, typically, at least not for and from internal factors.

00:50:08.38
Ian Plant
Yeah, yeah. i mean, if you want something enough, you're going to do what you need to do to make it happen. I think that's very true.

00:50:13.14
Seth Macey
I think so. i like to believe that. ah I just, i think where you see diet plans fall off or exercise plans fall off or, you know, someone who said they were going to learn a language and then they stop.

00:50:29.13
Ian Plant
Hmm.

00:50:29.58
Seth Macey
think it falls off because there was never a clear and strong enough reason for why they were doing it. Maybe it was just, it seemed like the right thing to do.

00:50:40.29
Ian Plant
Yeah, I think you're you're probably right. um You know, maybe if it's, it's a question of how much people want it. And if they don't really want it, when they encounter some obstacles, they might decide, all right, this is the juice is not worth the squeeze.

00:50:54.03
Ian Plant
I'm going to just get off this diet.

00:50:54.04
Seth Macey
Right.

00:50:55.88
Ian Plant
I think sustainability is something that people don't give enough thought about, you know, like sometimes people get really excited about something and they try to do too much and they find out it's not sustainable.

00:51:00.95
Seth Macey
Okay.

00:51:06.14
Seth Macey
Right.

00:51:09.64
Ian Plant
and it overwhelms them and they have to step away from it. And so, you know I've always believed that the best way to accomplish a goal is to lay out an incremental path to getting there.

00:51:22.49
Ian Plant
you know you You start off with a few steps that move you in the right direction and you make sure that it's not too much, that you can sustain walking along that path.

00:51:22.59
Seth Macey
Right. Yep.

00:51:33.14
Ian Plant
You could do that if you can just find that sustainable turnkey approach.

00:51:33.23
Seth Macey
yep

00:51:38.45
Ian Plant
ah you can incrementally approach your goals and you'll you'll get there eventually without burning out. I think that's the the key thing is a lot of people just burn out completely. They just try too much too fast and it overwhelms them.

00:51:48.67
Seth Macey
Yeah. I mean, so in your instance of leaving your prior career, it was you called your shot. Hey, I'm going to do this. I'm going to keep my head down, earn some income in the meantime, pay off my student loans, and then going to go do it as opposed to leap of faith.

00:52:01.60
Seth Macey
Here we go. Boom. I'm quitting boss and I'm going to just try and make a go of this.

00:52:03.24
Aaron
Mm-hmm.

00:52:06.97
Ian Plant
Right, exactly. I was very incremental and intentional with my approach to leaving my old profession. When I became a professional photographer, however, I learned the hard way to have a sustainable path.

00:52:18.99
Ian Plant
There were a lot of ventures that I tried ah where I worked very, very hard. i threw my all into them and realized I just couldn't keep up the pace and I got burnt out and I had to move on and try something else.

00:52:30.55
Ian Plant
So now, I'm very, very careful to make sure that everything I do is sustainable over the long term. Because I understand you have to have that incremental approach. You have to constantly be, you know, like if you're a content creator, you have to be putting out new content at a steady pace.

00:52:48.10
Ian Plant
But it's got to be steady. If you try to do too much, if you try to be on Instagram, you know, five times a day, after a year of that, you're going to just drive yourself insane.

00:52:56.23
Aaron
Yep. Yeah.

00:52:57.82
Ian Plant
And you're going to walk away from it and never want to touch it again.

00:53:00.85
Seth Macey
Right.

00:53:01.63
Aaron
yeah

00:53:01.72
Seth Macey
How are you assessing if something is sustainable ah in you know, in your current life or if you're making a decision?

00:53:08.82
Ian Plant
Yeah, i I just basically you know ask myself, how much time can I actually dedicate to this in a given day, week, month, whatever, time period, you know whatever the interval is for doing that thing repeatedly?

00:53:22.02
Ian Plant
And if it's something where where I just realize, like, there's no way I can keep up with that schedule, I don't i don't even try it. So I just, I'm looking for projects. I'm looking for a content creation schedule that works within my travel schedule and that isn't going exhaust me.

00:53:39.54
Ian Plant
So, you know, I'm not trying to put out a video every week for my YouTube channel.

00:53:40.00
Seth Macey
Right.

00:53:43.75
Ian Plant
I'm, you know, more like once every other week or maybe once a month. That is sustainable. That's something I can handle.

00:53:50.40
Seth Macey
So it's just straight up math with your available time, the estimated time of requirement for the new endeavor, and considering the variables of things that you're not willing to sacrifice.

00:54:01.38
Ian Plant
Exactly. and And basically how much like creative battery power I have available for any given thing.

00:54:07.85
Seth Macey
Right. What gets your creative battery up?

00:54:10.66
Ian Plant
ah but Going out making photos.

00:54:13.23
Seth Macey
So more of the thing. You don't need a break from the thing, in other words, to recharge your battery.

00:54:16.61
Ian Plant
No. No, i need I need to be doing the thing to recharge my battery. Yeah.

00:54:22.67
Seth Macey
you like perpetual motion?

00:54:24.51
Aaron
Yeah.

00:54:24.98
Ian Plant
Sometimes it feels that way. Yeah. You know, definitely need a break every now and then I come back from a photo trip and I usually I just go into a cocoon for a few days.

00:54:32.06
Seth Macey
ah Tell me about that.

00:54:32.68
Ian Plant
even A lot of content.

00:54:32.86
Seth Macey
What's that look like? What's that look like?

00:54:36.15
Ian Plant
Me sitting in front of the TV, turning my brain off, watching some dumb streaming.

00:54:41.25
Seth Macey
Great. People need to hear that.

00:54:42.34
Ian Plant
Yeah.

00:54:43.08
Seth Macey
You know, they do. Seriously. You're a professional photographer traveling all these great places. People need to hear like, hey, man, I go zombie mode like a regular person.

00:54:54.40
Aaron
Yeah, you got to rest.

00:54:55.14
Seth Macey
I need to hear that. You know, that's something I've struggled with for the longest time is, oh my God, I'm watching Netflix.

00:54:56.59
Aaron
Mm-hmm.

00:55:01.47
Seth Macey
I'm not being productive. You POS, get off, go do something that's useful where I've gotten to a place in the last few years where I've understood and every now and then I do struggle, but I've understood that rest is productive.

00:55:16.46
Ian Plant
And it's necessary.

00:55:18.04
Seth Macey
Yes. Yes.

00:55:18.37
Ian Plant
One third of our lives are spent sleeping. We can't avoid that. And the time that we're awake, we we can't use our creative capacity all the time. you know and So I i just ah like dump the creative battery every day as much as I can.

00:55:26.73
Seth Macey
right

00:55:32.35
Ian Plant
But when it's depleted, when I'm done, then I park myself in front of the TV.

00:55:38.20
Seth Macey
Nice.

00:55:38.44
Aaron
Yeah.

00:55:39.99
Seth Macey
Aaron, were going to say something. I think i jumped in.

00:55:42.79
Aaron
I just, ah back to, you know, what's the whole point and in a hundred years, we're not going to know anyone here that's still alive and we're going to be gone, all that stuff. I think to, to really, to make a dent in the world or to be remembered after a one hundred, you have to sacrifice a ton of things. Like the trade-off is immense.

00:56:02.17
Ian Plant
Thank

00:56:02.98
Aaron
I think of, can think of any just sort of master of their craft and kind of what they had to go through to to get to that place and to be remembered throughout history is probably lives that most of us wouldn't want to trade for.

00:56:10.98
Seth Macey
Thank you.

00:56:17.24
Aaron
So there is this plethora of really successful people that we'll never know about. And that's okay.

00:56:25.01
Ian Plant
yeah

00:56:26.31
Aaron
And that's, that's more than okay. And it's, it's kind of like, where are your values? Where, where are your intentions? Did you answer the question of why truthfully for yourself, did you follow your own heart versus society or your parents or someone else's that's not going to be there for very long, you know, into your future.

00:56:36.36
Ian Plant
Thank you.

00:56:41.86
Seth Macey
Thank

00:56:45.81
Aaron
So it's one of those things where, know, It's like there's this there's this big space of people that are really good at what they do because they loved it and they loved life doing it versus people that are the number one person in any craft, name it, and the sacrifices they made to to be that person.

00:57:07.52
Aaron
You know, so I just think it's, it's an interesting, it's an interesting balance, just like business versus a photography. You can't just do photography all the time. If you want to make money from it, you got to do the other stuff too.

00:57:19.86
Ian Plant
Yeah, and you know i I think you can't you can't like force it.

00:57:20.22
Seth Macey
Yeah.

00:57:23.90
Ian Plant
you You can't like make yourself a person that's so famous that you are remembered throughout the ages. There's a huge amount of luck to it. The people that, you know we we you know we everyone knows William Shakespeare's name, but that isn't necessarily because William Shakespeare was the most successful playwright of his time.

00:57:42.12
Ian Plant
you know There's a certain amount of luck to you know who gets elevated by history. And you know I also think that that the farther you go and look back in time, the more the the what we see of the people that have been famous in history is is kind of more of a cartoon version of them.

00:57:53.26
Seth Macey
Right.

00:57:59.93
Ian Plant
We don't really know what they were or what they did. We just have this sort of cartoon understanding of what they've done.

00:58:03.78
Aaron
Yeah. Right.

00:58:06.45
Ian Plant
And so I think it's it's ultimately foolish to try to create that.

00:58:12.47
Aaron
right

00:58:12.71
Seth Macey
right

00:58:12.86
Ian Plant
to worry about that, to think about like, what's my legacy gonna be? Cause you won't be able to control it. You can't control it in your own lifetime. And it's very difficult, it's impossible to control what happens after you're gone.

00:58:25.85
Ian Plant
Unless you do something really truly horrible, um you know, that might be one way of of having a ah ah longstanding legacy, but i I certainly wouldn't encourage anyone to think about doing that.

00:58:35.30
Aaron
No, no.

00:58:36.87
Seth Macey
No, absolutely not.

00:58:37.61
Aaron
That's our disclaimer.

00:58:37.71
Ian Plant
Yeah.

00:58:38.64
Seth Macey
That's our disclaimer.

00:58:38.90
Ian Plant
Yeah.

00:58:39.21
Aaron
um

00:58:40.73
Ian Plant
But yeah, I mean, I just, I ultimately think, but, you know, like, it's not just, you know, the legacy going forward. It's the it's what you're you're doing now. You know, like the what sort of connection you're making with people, how famous you're becoming doing whatever it is you're doing.

00:58:55.46
Ian Plant
yeah know All those things, like I don't really think any of that matters. And I don't think that you really can control it. I think there's a little bit of randomness to, to like, what, you know, people...

00:59:07.75
Ian Plant
like at a given time. And you know you can't force people to to like what you're doing. All you can do is do what you love and then throw it out there and connect with the people who enjoy it as well and who like what you're producing.

00:59:21.83
Ian Plant
And so, I mean, I tell that to people all the time, a lot of younger photographers getting into the business, they they'll ask me, you know are you know should I be thinking commercially about my photographs?

00:59:32.38
Ian Plant
And I say, look, don't don't don't think commercially about your photography. Just photograph what inspires you and keep that separate from your business. you know Develop a business model that will successfully connect you to fans, followers, and customers.

00:59:49.06
Ian Plant
ah But really your goal is to find the people, find your audience, the audience that appreciates what you're doing. And it it may be a huge audience. It may be a smaller audience, but finding that audience is really the goal of the business side of things and then figuring out a way to you know make the business successful.

01:00:08.14
Ian Plant
ah But that that's not that's not what you should be thinking about when you're making photos. You should be thinking about what inspires you, what moves you, and focus only on that.

01:00:19.32
Aaron
Well said.

01:00:20.24
Seth Macey
Very well said. Well, let's end with this. you could photograph one place or moment in history, what would it be and why?

01:00:26.32
Ian Plant
so

01:00:28.70
Ian Plant
the the The moment in history part is is the one that really throws me. Because no one's everyone asks some variation of that, like, you know what's your favorite place to photograph? But you know having the option to delay travel through time and pick any moment in history to photograph, that opens up a lot of interesting options.

01:00:46.98
Ian Plant
And my answer may may sound ah a little ah quaint and a little contrived. But I think my answer is going to be whatever it is I'm photographing next. That is where I want to be.

01:00:57.60
Seth Macey
Dinosaurs, gladiator coliseums, neanderthals.

01:00:59.85
Ian Plant
OK, I admit dinosaurs.

01:01:02.48
Aaron
that'd be cool

01:01:05.27
Ian Plant
I admit dinosaurs would be pretty awesome.

01:01:07.12
Seth Macey
but Okay, there we go.

01:01:07.44
Ian Plant
I'm going to go with

01:01:07.96
Seth Macey
We got that out here at least.

01:01:08.48
Aaron
yeah there finally velociraptor yeah wow

01:01:10.39
Seth Macey
What dinosaur though?

01:01:15.33
Ian Plant
Tyrannosaurus rex fighting Triceratops.

01:01:16.36
Seth Macey
Okay, fair. There you go.

01:01:18.69
Ian Plant
It was

01:01:19.51
Seth Macey
Ian Plant, ladies and gentlemen. Thanks for your time today, man. Appreciate it.

01:01:23.65
Ian Plant
a pleasure. had a great time. Thank you so much.