Lianna Nixon - Using Storytelling to Connect & Be Relatable Artwork

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The Photographer Mindset is a podcast specifically created for photographers, and those who believe their purpose is to create, inspire and develop into their full potential. The photographer mindset podcast was initiated to help creative individuals understand that their success depends on more than just skill and dedication. In this podcast we learn to develop a winning mindset based on attitude and out of the box thinking strategies so that we can grow our clients, brand recognition & confidence. We want to work smarter towards our goals, not harder.

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The Photographer Mindset

Lianna Nixon - Using Storytelling to Connect & Be Relatable

June 30, 2025 • Seth Macey & Aaron Mannes • Episode 279

Lianna Nixon (@liannanixon) is a polar guide, climate science educator, and storyteller who uses her camera to connect people with the Arctic's fragile beauty and its global significance. With a background in education and a passion for conservation, Lianna has spent years exploring the Arctic, guiding expeditions, and documenting the stories of its wildlife and ecosystems.

In this episode, Lianna shares her journey of becoming a polar guide and photographer, blending her love for storytelling with her expertise in climate science. She discusses the challenges of making science relatable, the art of sparking curiosity, and the importance of empowering others through education and imagery. Lianna also opens up about her experiences working with polar bears, the evolving Arctic landscape, and her efforts to support underrepresented voices in conservation.

Expect to Learn:

How storytelling can make both you and complex topics relatable
Insights into the unique dynamics of the Arctic, and the importance of sea ice
Strategies for communicating in a way that connects emotionally with people
How deal with imposter syndrome, and find a unique path to success
How education and community-driven initiatives can empower individuals

Lianna's links:

Website: www.liannanixon.com
Bear Guiding Tours: www.bearexpeditions.org

Navajo Community NPO: www.tsebii.com

Sponsor:

Thanks to WhiteWall for being our lead sponsor this episode! They're the top choice for photographers who want high-quality prints, with a variety of material options, and who want their work delivered fast in 9 days or less!

Use the code TPM2025 at checkout for 15% off and free shipping for all of June 2025! https://www.whitewall.com/

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Thanks for listening!
Go get shooting, go get editing, and stay focused.

@sethmacey
@mantis_photography
@thephotographermindset

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INTRO:

00:23.09
Seth Macey
Hey, you're listening to another episode of the Photographer Mindset Podcast. I'm your co-host Seth Macy.

00:29.20
Aaron
And I'm your co-host Aaron Mannes.

00:30.93
Seth Macey
And Lianna Nixon was our guest today. She wasn't on an expedition in Svalbard like she often is, which we talk a lot about in this episode, and graced us with her time today to talk photography, to talk polar bears, to talk sea ice, to talk storytelling. Am I missing anything?

00:50.00
Aaron
No, just the overall general positive a giggly attitude. I love it.

00:55.98
Seth Macey
She said herself that she had a golden retriever personality. So we'll see if listeners can agree with this. I think biggest takeaway for me from this was, you know, how we can make our imagery and videos and the things that we're we're passionate about, how we can make that relatable and how we can get people to be curious about it and potentially dig deeper into it for themselves.

01:17.48
Seth Macey
um That was what I took away from today. How about you?

01:22.01
Aaron
Yeah, a lot of the same. She's a great talker, ah definitely passionate about what she does and that translates. And I feel like that's the that's the key to to sharing your your love with other people.

01:35.23
Seth Macey
Yeah, absolutely. Links to her work are in the episode description. And as always, if you like what you're hearing, feel free to leave a rating on podcasts. Feel free to leave a rating on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. It's cost-free, effective way to support the show.

01:49.56
Seth Macey
Quick word from our sponsor and then to into our episode with Lianna Nixon.

INTERVIEW:

00:00:07.45
Seth Macey
Do you guys have this in the US of A? Afterbite? You have this brand? This is...

00:00:13.28
Aaron
Yep.

00:00:13.91
LIANNA NIXON
Yeah.

00:00:14.74
Seth Macey
Okay, great, because I've lathered my legs in it today. Yeah,

00:00:19.14
Aaron
Did she get smoked?

00:00:20.48
Seth Macey
yeah but the black flies here, they come for two weeks, and then they disappear, and then that's it. Then you just have horse flies to look forward to. And then today it was wet after that heat wave we had on the East Coast, and they decided to come back, and I'm half man, half bite.

00:00:29.14
LIANNA NIXON
Ooh.

00:00:33.35
LIANNA NIXON
Hmm.

00:00:39.83
Seth Macey
So...

00:00:41.65
Aaron
They got you.

00:00:41.83
Seth Macey
Yeah, I was just curious if you had this here because I've been putting this on since I was a little kid after bite and paying my dues with the sting.

00:00:48.52
Aaron
You feel like it works?

00:00:50.16
Seth Macey
You know the sting?

00:00:51.54
Aaron
Yeah.

00:00:51.67
LIANNA NIXON
Yes.

00:00:52.73
Seth Macey
ammonia sting, right? Okay, good.

00:00:54.33
Aaron
Yeah.

00:00:54.57
Seth Macey
All right. like i'm I'm glad y'all can relate.

00:00:56.11
Aaron
Huh.

00:00:57.40
Seth Macey
Good.

00:00:58.07
Aaron
The show is sponsored by AfterBite.

00:01:00.23
LIANNA NIXON
Yeah, was wondering.

00:01:00.26
Seth Macey
It's really, yeah, hopefully, hopefully it should be.

00:01:02.02
Aaron
It should be.

00:01:05.03
Seth Macey
It should be. Leanna, thanks for joining us today. um

00:01:07.71
LIANNA NIXON
Yeah, for having me.

00:01:08.42
Seth Macey
You were so quick on the trigger to say, yes, I'll come on the podcast. And we like that enthusiasm. So thanks for your time today before we, before we even begin.

00:01:17.83
LIANNA NIXON
Yeah, of course. I'm a very optimistic and positive person. yeah I think you'll you'll get that throughout the entire podcast. So really happy to be here and joining you guys.

00:01:27.25
Seth Macey
You just say that and then you you have a turning point where you just turn completely sour in the episode and malicious, right?

00:01:33.33
Aaron
Yeah. So negative.

00:01:34.47
Seth Macey
That's just your...

00:01:35.70
LIANNA NIXON
How'd you

00:01:37.89
Aaron
No, not at all.

00:01:38.62
LIANNA NIXON
there goes a There goes my turning point.

00:01:42.47
Aaron
Yeah.

00:01:42.61
LIANNA NIXON
My gosh.

00:01:43.66
Seth Macey
What we call a wild card.

00:01:43.91
Aaron
Yeah. the The big reveal 40, 40 minutes in gets real dark.

00:01:45.88
LIANNA NIXON
Perfect.

00:01:45.97
Seth Macey
I'm sure.

00:01:50.33
LIANNA NIXON
oh

00:01:51.50
Aaron
Stay tuned everyone.

00:01:51.92
Seth Macey
me ask you this right off the bat.

00:01:53.17
LIANNA NIXON
i

00:01:54.08
Seth Macey
How does one end up in Svalbard so many times?

00:01:57.01
LIANNA NIXON
So many times, um, where, I don't know. um I just keep showing up.

00:02:03.75
Seth Macey
This is me giving you a jumping off point, I guess, to figure out.

00:02:06.03
LIANNA NIXON
I know. because Um, no, so I started going out to Svalbard in 2017 and I happened to go, um with a group called sea legacy, which I interned for,

00:02:18.00
LIANNA NIXON
um later in life. and And just got bit by the Arctic bug. um I guess that is relevant to your afterbite there.

00:02:25.36
Aaron
Yeah.

00:02:25.97
LIANNA NIXON
there is

00:02:26.24
Seth Macey
Sponsor my afterbite.

00:02:26.42
Aaron
Sponsored by afterlife. Welcome.

00:02:28.72
LIANNA NIXON
There is no afterbite for the Arctic bug. You just keep returning and going. um And I kept finding ways to get back there, um whether it was to go see wildlife or just experience in that place.

00:02:35.82
Aaron
Well.

00:02:43.63
LIANNA NIXON
I also have a background in education, mostly around climate science. And so a lot of my work specializes in polar research. So I went back to the Arctic for that. And then finally, I became a polar bear garden guide for two of my best friends on the planet with their expedition outfit called Mother Bear.

00:03:04.03
LIANNA NIXON
And that's how I keep going, just trying to find ways to get up there.

00:03:08.77
Seth Macey
What is the coolest part about Svalbard?

00:03:11.81
LIANNA NIXON
um Gosh. Well, I mean, it's literally cool, but. Yeah, um no, it's the ice. For me, my favorite thing about the Arctic is the sea ice.

00:03:23.44
LIANNA NIXON
And um Svalbard is uniquely set at the end of the transpolar drift. It's this drift um ocean current that goes all the way across the Arctic from the Siberian Arctic and between Greenland and Svalbard.

00:03:38.44
LIANNA NIXON
And so the sea ice pack moves every single year up and back. And within that beautiful central Arctic climate ecosystem, Svalbard is just at the edge and we get to see these beautiful play of the climate and ecosystem with each other.

00:03:54.41
LIANNA NIXON
So.

00:03:55.94
Seth Macey
Yeah, it's gone. Interesting you said ice. I thought the easy answer was bears, but I I'm glad you didn't say that.

00:03:59.75
LIANNA NIXON
I know, I'm sorry. one of those people.

00:04:03.57
Seth Macey
I was like, I thought it was a, you're just going to hit ah fastball down the middle, but you took it a different way, which I enjoy.

00:04:06.80
Aaron
and

00:04:10.78
LIANNA NIXON
Thank you. Yeah, no, I am a nerd for sea ice. So that's actually what I try to get all of our guests on board the ship to focus on is not just the polar bear, because so many people go out there to see the bears, um but it's the world around the bear that makes them so unique and incredible to watch.

00:04:32.22
Seth Macey
Does that attitude help you with your photography?

00:04:34.67
LIANNA NIXON
Absolutely. Yeah.

00:04:35.83
Seth Macey
um How so?

00:04:37.51
LIANNA NIXON
Um, it helps in the sense of being able to connect to an animal a lot more intimately. Um, I think there's a lot of people who love polar bears for, well, why do you love polar bears?

00:04:51.78
Seth Macey
oh that's a good question. i think the first polar bear I saw, there weren't words. I couldn't believe that something of that size existed. i couldn't believe that something of that size could cover so much distance with speed in such a short amount of time.

00:05:14.66
Seth Macey
I couldn't believe that an incredible predator like this was also super lethargic and like Snorlax the Pokemon.

00:05:24.25
LIANNA NIXON
Exactly, yes.

00:05:25.80
Seth Macey
And Bright White, i I just, I couldn't believe that something like that existed until I saw it in the first person.

00:05:32.27
LIANNA NIXON
Yeah, absolutely.

00:05:33.09
Aaron
Yeah. I'm a fan of the sea ice that they live on and around. That's my.

00:05:37.42
LIANNA NIXON
yeah That's amazing. Yeah.

00:05:40.72
Aaron
you know

00:05:40.87
LIANNA NIXON
Perfect.

00:05:41.05
Seth Macey
Aaron's saying that because he's upset that he's yet to see a polar bear.

00:05:42.61
Aaron
Yeah.

00:05:44.52
LIANNA NIXON
Oh, well, you gotta come.

00:05:44.76
Aaron
Yeah. And I'm just trying to echo and assimilate to our guests.

00:05:48.99
LIANNA NIXON
Right.

00:05:50.10
Aaron
That's what you said your favorite part was of those areas.

00:05:52.77
LIANNA NIXON
Yeah.

00:05:53.34
Aaron
No, I don't.

00:05:54.18
LIANNA NIXON
But.

00:05:54.94
Aaron
Polar bears don't do it for me. The ice does.

00:05:57.42
LIANNA NIXON
Oh, great.

00:05:57.56
Seth Macey
Nice.

00:05:58.76
Aaron
yeah

00:05:58.75
LIANNA NIXON
Okay. Do I just.

00:05:59.51
Aaron
I think we found in in the nicest way possible, I think we found like the net, we were talking about birding as being, you know, what nerd sort of things you do in your 30s.

00:06:00.87
LIANNA NIXON
um

00:06:11.62
Aaron
ah think the interest of sea ice, like we we've topped it in a good way. like But congratulations for finding like the niche, the niche of sea ice.

00:06:23.52
LIANNA NIXON
Yeah, it is cool.

00:06:23.75
Seth Macey
Yeah.

00:06:24.58
Aaron
It's pretty cool.

00:06:26.94
LIANNA NIXON
And I think being able to understand that environment, especially with how incredible bears are there, a lot of people love them because They are a lot of but them think they're cute and they're adorable.

00:06:40.38
LIANNA NIXON
Like I, you see that all over social media with the little hearts surrounding polar bears. They're curious. They have incredible personalities. Each one of them has their own unique set of, you know, perspectives and how they engage with you or don't, um, you know, how they are this, the world's largest terrestrial apex predator, um, is incredible as well.

00:07:04.69
LIANNA NIXON
and that they cover the ground they're astounding but um their environment is changing so quickly especially in svalbard you know the global average of melt that is happening um svalbard is ground zero it's changing seven times faster than anywhere on the planet um so i find understanding the environment

00:07:10.58
Aaron
Thank you.

00:07:27.27
LIANNA NIXON
and these animals and how they are situated within them um better tells their story, better tells how interconnected it is, not just with the Arctic ecosystem and the people that live there, but also on a global scale, right?

00:07:42.75
LIANNA NIXON
um Trying to bring these stories home is so profoundly important.

00:07:48.50
Seth Macey
Yeah, I have an interesting question for you since you brought this up. Maybe don't mean for this to be controversial. I'm just honestly trying to get to the bottom of this because I've had this conversation with a bunch of people before and you seem like the perfect person to ask because you're both a climate science educator, correct?

00:08:00.96
Seth Macey
And a polar guide.

00:08:02.25
LIANNA NIXON
Right.

00:08:03.11
Seth Macey
So you kind of have one leg on each side of the fence. And what I mean by this is I've heard from guiding companies specifically that you know guide polar bear viewing tours.

00:08:16.33
Seth Macey
Bears are fine. We've never seen more bears in the most recent years. right like there's There's tons of bears. And now that argument could be separate from climate change. i understand that. right like Climate change can be occurring and bears can still be doing fine or they cannot be doing fine.

00:08:29.75
Seth Macey
But you know from a lot of the guiding companies I've heard, ba polar bear numbers are great, if not better. Anecdotally, we've seen more than ever than we did in the 80s and 90s.

00:08:39.14
LIANNA NIXON
Yeah.

00:08:39.26
Seth Macey
And then you hear from maybe some foundations that are responsible for ah you know receiving donations in order to help polar bears. This situation is sad. It's bleak. Bear numbers are declining. And both kind of have an interest, right? If you're a bear guiding company, you have a commercial interest in their in bears being plentiful, in bears being happy. And if you're receiving donations, you have sort of an interest in... I'm not saying that that necessarily the agencies are corrupt. I'm just saying there is people aren't donating to cause that isn't dire or isn't sad or isn't bleak.

00:09:15.79
Seth Macey
So what's kind of your take on this?

00:09:19.25
LIANNA NIXON
Yeah, that's a very loaded question. Thank you. um know

00:09:23.28
Aaron
right off the bat.

00:09:24.81
LIANNA NIXON
Yeah, I mean, absolutely.

00:09:25.58
Seth Macey
Well, ask you this, sorry to interrupt.

00:09:26.37
LIANNA NIXON
Yeah,

00:09:26.79
Seth Macey
I ask you this because you're on both sides coming back to that. like You do guiding, which is there's money in guiding and you also are a climate scientist.

00:09:29.62
LIANNA NIXON
no. Great.

00:09:33.61
Seth Macey
So, and I'm not saying that you have to have an and ah complete interest in, we've got to make money off the bears or, oh, got to protect the bears entirely.

00:09:34.49
LIANNA NIXON
right Climate change.

00:09:41.62
Seth Macey
I'm just, I'm interested in how, you know, the commercial aspect plays into how bears are actually doing objectively.

00:09:51.45
LIANNA NIXON
Yeah. No, that's great question.

00:09:52.44
Aaron
can And can both be true. i'm picturing i' picturing my backyard, and if I look at wildlife from my back porch and I have woods in the background, I might not see much because there's space for those wildlife to be.

00:09:54.78
Seth Macey
Sure.

00:10:05.04
Aaron
But if people start making a development and we take away that land, I might feel like, wow, I'm seeing a lot more wildlife because now the only... sort of area is right in my viewing area. Otherwise it's not there.

00:10:18.93
Aaron
Their, their habitat is not there. So it appears, wow, there's more wildlife ever since they've created this residential area. But in actuality, is that the case as an analogy?

00:10:30.46
LIANNA NIXON
Yeah. Right. No, there's a lot of layers to that. I mean, first of all, let's talk about like the polar bear range, right? um There are 20 subpopulations of polar bears. Actually, the 20th was just named recently between East Greenland and South Greenland.

00:10:46.91
LIANNA NIXON
And these are just like, they're not like totally different polar bears. It's just, they're so isolated in these groups that we've kind of drawn these lines um in for the scientists regarding you know um who belongs where.

00:11:01.47
LIANNA NIXON
So the Svalbard polar bears, for example, they're part of the Barents Sea subpopulation, and that is Svalbard and Franz Josef land.

00:11:01.67
Seth Macey
Thank you.

00:11:10.59
LIANNA NIXON
And if we were to look at a map with all of them, um And actually, PBI has a great graphic of this. But there are only very few ah polar institutes that are actually studying polar bears in certain areas.

00:11:27.38
LIANNA NIXON
Like, for example, we have no information on East Greenland polar bears. Definitely don't have information on polar bears in Russia. um Some places in Alaska, we have very limited and information on.

00:11:40.62
LIANNA NIXON
The best studied polar bears are obviously the ones, the West and South Hudson polar bear populations where Churchill is. And then Svalbard has a very great program as well.

00:11:52.66
LIANNA NIXON
And so these observations are probably being made based on where the tourism is and also where the science is And it's a mix, you know, in most recent years, especially in Svalbard,

00:12:07.28
LIANNA NIXON
We're seeing more land-based bears because so many of them are choosing to be residential. um The sea ice dynamics are changing. The sea ice pack is getting smaller, as we know. um That's inevitable.

00:12:21.24
LIANNA NIXON
And that's a lot of distance for a polar bear to hop on the ice. you know you think about a mom and a cub, um they're emerging in like late February, March from their dens.

00:12:33.95
LIANNA NIXON
And by the time that they get their cub to be ready to do that trek across the sea ice, the sea ice already might be receding, you know, going farther away. You can't take a cub swimming.

00:12:46.08
LIANNA NIXON
They're going to, they don't have that fat or that skill. So, um, a mom and cub might choose to be more residential. We've also seen other bears who have thrived on new like hunting adaptions. Like in Svalbard, we're seeing polar bears actively and more frequently hunt reindeer, um which of course they probably have done in the past, but this is something that we're seeing consistently.

00:13:10.88
LIANNA NIXON
And polar bears consistently hanging out in certain areas and feeding on carcasses. um And this is something I've seen as a guide and then also as part of a um citizen science project with a couple of scientists at the Northern Polar Institute or Norwegian Polar Institute, my bad.

00:13:30.71
LIANNA NIXON
Um, so we're seeing like more bears being land-based. And so that's like informing us of, okay, there might be more bears, but actually populations, according to at least surveys happening in Svalbard, they're stable and they could be growing. And if they're decreasing, they might just be moving.

00:13:48.54
LIANNA NIXON
It's not like they're dying like immediately on the spot and and they're decreasing. They might be displaced to somewhere else, you know? um even with throughout my lifetime, polar bears where mothers go to den have changed and um where they get to bigger groups have changed because it just all depends on the sea ice distribution and where we can go to sample.

00:14:13.66
Seth Macey
Right. So my question of, my simple in question of, are bears doing good or not?

00:14:21.01
Seth Macey
Too simple. Okay. and Understood. So like, essentially we don't know.

00:14:23.20
LIANNA NIXON
But I,

00:14:25.57
LIANNA NIXON
No, i think I think it's, you know, there are population areas where they're increasing and population areas where they're decreasing, but we just don't know why and we don't know if they're just moving.

00:14:39.14
LIANNA NIXON
So I think overall they're

00:14:39.17
Seth Macey
Mm-hmm.

00:14:42.17
LIANNA NIXON
the populations that I've observed are generally stable. So they're fine um in a sense, but there's also like other things happening in the background that can impact them, but that's always just been a course of a polar bear's life.

00:14:58.04
Seth Macey
Cool.

00:14:58.09
Aaron
Yeah, they may be adapting, ah but I think the science that we're we're changing things and we're the environment is changing is is there and whether they adapt or not, is is that fair or not fair or what have you, that's a different a whole different episode.

00:15:05.70
LIANNA NIXON
Oh, absolutely.

00:15:13.49
Aaron
But that's I think that's maybe what's going on.

00:15:14.17
LIANNA NIXON
Yeah.

00:15:16.74
Aaron
Like they're they're surviving. they're changing their hunting caribou now instead of the normal thing.

00:15:18.59
LIANNA NIXON
Yeah.

00:15:21.04
Seth Macey
And blue guys.

00:15:22.27
Aaron
They're staying more residential or on land versus making those swims. So things are changing what that, what that turns into who knows.

00:15:26.75
LIANNA NIXON
Right.

00:15:30.65
LIANNA NIXON
Yeah, exactly. Like they eat 59 different organisms on average, and that includes like bird species, seaweed, you know, smaller mammals, you name it, they're opportunistic.

00:15:43.04
Seth Macey
Got it. Makes sense.

00:15:43.88
Aaron
Yeah.

00:15:44.40
Seth Macey
I want to rewind a bit. You said at the very start of the episode, I think when you first started, you said it was with Sea Legacy you were going to?

00:15:52.37
LIANNA NIXON
Yeah.

00:15:53.29
Seth Macey
is that ah Is that Paul Nicklin?

00:15:55.62
LIANNA NIXON
Yeah.

00:15:56.63
Seth Macey
Oh, cool. That's there with him and his wife's agency.

00:16:00.90
LIANNA NIXON
Yeah. Christina Mittermire.

00:16:02.64
Seth Macey
Christina Mittenmeyer and Paul Nicklin. Okay.

00:16:04.71
LIANNA NIXON
Yeah.

00:16:05.13
Seth Macey
Cool. Very cool.

00:16:05.87
LIANNA NIXON
it was ah

00:16:06.29
Seth Macey
you.

00:16:06.95
LIANNA NIXON
It was a whole lifetime ago, I feel like. But yes, it was very cool getting to learn from them. And um they were definitely my bounce into the world of conservation.

00:16:16.24
Seth Macey
Very cool. But you said something that I think is, so it's kind of a theme we talk here and there about with a lot of guests. I found a way to get back there. We've had a lot of guests say that their camera is a ticket to the world, in a sense.

00:16:26.49
LIANNA NIXON
who

00:16:28.68
Seth Macey
How did you do you, do you agree with that, that your camera is kind of a a ticket to opportunities and an interesting life? And um you how did you, how can you creatively find a way to get back to a place? And I guess you can maybe use your experience as a case study.

00:16:46.10
LIANNA NIXON
Yeah, absolutely. i absolutely agree that your camera is a ticket to the world. It just, Being able to go and tell stories, I think stories are always going to be relevant and needed, no matter how many are out there in the world.

00:17:02.06
LIANNA NIXON
And um at least for me, my my camera has been and incredible voice in connecting different niche areas that I'm very interested in exploring. um And so for me, and when I knew that I wanted to continue to stay in the Arctic,

00:17:21.22
LIANNA NIXON
I was like, okay, what skills do I need to have apart from being able to take a camera out there? They're going make sure that I bring value to this place um so that I can continue to go there and not just be extractive with my camera and my stories and also be present there and learning, but so that I can actually, you know, hopefully like make a difference or or bring this value.

00:17:27.89
Seth Macey
Mm-hmm.

00:17:48.27
LIANNA NIXON
And so I saw that through education for myself um and more predominantly how we use stories to communicate regarding climate science and finding that line of storytelling and also building up the skills that I need to be in the Arctic, like becoming a polar bear guard and learning bear behavior, not just through observation, but you know there are those courses, um being able to bring education components where you're like, hey, I can tell you really random and fun facts about bears, maybe a couple of puns in between.

00:18:26.22
LIANNA NIXON
um You should let me help you entertain guests if you want. um And you know being able to help scientists, especially, communicate their work to classrooms using storytelling, that was the way I was able to essentially utilize my camera as a ticket, I guess, is just building up the skills and the framework that made me valuable to return there.

00:18:52.91
Seth Macey
Yeah, would it be fair to say that you your skills as a photographer were secondary?

00:19:00.87
Seth Macey
Or is that incorrect?

00:19:03.18
LIANNA NIXON
I think that it was just like a give and take of what was the most needed. Because sometimes like five years ago, I was on a polar research expedition called Mosaic.

00:19:14.29
LIANNA NIXON
And we were out in the ice pack for an entire year um recording these incredible measurements on an ice flow to understand the Arctic climate system and its future.

00:19:25.30
LIANNA NIXON
And I was there for photography. But I, and I would, wouldn't have been there for photography if I didn't have my education background. So it definitely was, I think in some of these places, it's for me, it was a give and take of my most valuable skill being used somewhere. Storytelling is needed, but I have to have these credentials in order to be there.

00:19:49.23
LIANNA NIXON
So.

00:19:51.22
Seth Macey
Yeah. Aaron, you want jump in and you want me keep going?

00:19:54.78
Aaron
Yeah, um I'm curious. I want to back up a little further. I think for for most people, this is a very unique sort of career path. ah So I'm curious, like back to...

00:20:07.58
Aaron
middle school you like all the way back there. Like, how did we get to this place where you're spending a year in the Arctic on, on these boats and these expeditions? And this is your passion and your, your life. It's gotta be in like the 0.2%, maybe less, probably way less of, of people out there that are, that are doing this. So like, where, where did the, this passion begin and get started? I'm kind of curious about going back for a second and just,

00:20:36.04
Aaron
getting caught up because it just feels like all of a sudden you're on year long expeditions in the the Arctic. So how do we get there?

00:20:42.33
LIANNA NIXON
Yeah. How do we get there? um Storytelling and photography has been a multi-generational passion. um my from both sides of my family. So my mom's mom, my grandma, um she moved out west, ah as with her camera, if that was her ticket.

00:21:04.42
LIANNA NIXON
um Back in like the 40s, she went to Jackson Hole, Wyoming and worked on a dude ranch. And just the world opened up for her with her photography.

00:21:16.20
Aaron
Hmm.

00:21:16.17
LIANNA NIXON
And eventually, she worked in the zoo world, met my her second husband, which

00:21:18.13
Seth Macey
Thank you.

00:21:22.74
LIANNA NIXON
is my step grandfather and they just got to travel the world doing wildlife conservation and she just had her camera with her everywhere. And when they retired back in Jackson, she opened up a film development store.

00:21:37.87
LIANNA NIXON
And I was always pretty lucky to be able to go and visit them in the summers and you know, she would let me take like a Kodak camera and just have the magic of being able to use that creativity and actually like my grandmother developing the film was pretty special.

00:21:57.09
Aaron
Yeah. There you go.

00:21:58.04
LIANNA NIXON
And then my dad is also a nature photographer, hobbyist. um I think he would have loved to do that for his real job, but um he taught me a lot of what I know today.

00:22:10.62
LIANNA NIXON
And I think now I might've surpassed him with some skills, but, um,

00:22:15.40
Aaron
there you go

00:22:15.62
LIANNA NIXON
I've been very lucky to travel with him as well. um And he has the same passion, also loves the Arctic. He used to buy me all these like explorer books and I would read through them and just be enamored about all the explorers and people who went out into the wilderness.

00:22:36.84
Aaron
Yeah, so it's in the blood.

00:22:36.82
Seth Macey
I followed your the other day on Instagram.

00:22:40.31
LIANNA NIXON
Oh, you did?

00:22:41.35
Seth Macey
Yes, that was great.

00:22:42.37
LIANNA NIXON
Cool, yeah.

00:22:43.76
Seth Macey
Eric, right? Eric Nixon.

00:22:45.10
LIANNA NIXON
Eric Nixon, yes.

00:22:46.29
Seth Macey
Great. Yeah. I saw that you guys also run a bear guiding business together in Katmai. Is this true?

00:22:52.13
LIANNA NIXON
Yes, that is true. um

00:22:53.40
Seth Macey
How is it like working with your father? Guiding. you

00:22:57.18
LIANNA NIXON
Yeah. um

00:22:58.08
Seth Macey
I'm sure that's an interesting endeavor.

00:22:59.69
LIANNA NIXON
yeah It is. um Actually, I've worked with my dad for a while, not just with this, but um I, for on and off, was also a graphic designer, and I did work for him.

00:23:12.27
LIANNA NIXON
um And he's, you know, we have this electrical contracting family business that'll be 100 year. And yes. and so

00:23:19.55
Seth Macey
100 years old? Wow.

00:23:22.99
LIANNA NIXON
ah so started from my great grandfather now my brother's in it too um but yeah so used to family dynamics really am uh but sometimes we kind of I don't think we clash um like I'm definitely the caboose uh when it comes to being out in Katmai because he's got a he's got a lead and I'm okay with that I pick up you know everybody else make sure everybody's good um

00:23:31.71
Aaron
Hmm.

00:23:32.17
Seth Macey
Yeah.

00:23:49.33
LIANNA NIXON
But i really enjoy guiding with him and being able to share this. I don't know. Everything has just always been like a family affair, i guess. So it just seems normal.

00:23:59.41
Seth Macey
Yeah, that is interesting family dynamics. You have like a heritage legacy of photography that goes back a long time. A hundred year old family business.

00:24:11.14
LIANNA NIXON
Yeah.

00:24:12.59
Seth Macey
That's just, that that's that's hard to come by.

00:24:15.10
Aaron
Mm-hmm.

00:24:15.75
Seth Macey
um have hobbies and passions pass the test of time and be passed on and have interest remain amongst new generations.

00:24:26.21
LIANNA NIXON
Yeah.

00:24:27.88
Seth Macey
um to have a business last time. why do you What do you credit that to, all that?

00:24:33.39
LIANNA NIXON
Oh, gosh, a lot of perseverance. um I think that, you know, at least for watching my dad um with his contracting company and everything like that, he's he's endured a lot. um You know, 2008 recession and just like the change of what life is, you know, for example, remote work is like a big deal, right?

00:25:00.25
Aaron
Mm-hmm.

00:25:01.40
LIANNA NIXON
So you can't, you don't build buildings for people that work remotely. But anyways, I think it's just like continually looking at innovation and being open to like what is new in the world and what the younger people can bring in.

00:25:19.36
LIANNA NIXON
And also just like constantly grounding yourself in core family values, I think.

00:25:25.49
Seth Macey
What are some of those? Are you comfortable sharing some of those? Right.

00:25:30.02
LIANNA NIXON
I got to think of that. um I think always one is just like, it's so cheesy, but like not giving up like um you have to at least think of a couple of solutions before you can like throw in the towel.

00:25:31.53
Seth Macey
and

00:25:44.45
LIANNA NIXON
And if you know, task is like going to be impossible, but you have to think outside the box.

00:25:45.52
Seth Macey
right

00:25:51.18
LIANNA NIXON
I think also just, you know, um being open, i guess. I don't know. Like this is

00:26:00.31
Seth Macey
Yeah. It's okay. You can have some homework, some time to think about.

00:26:03.40
LIANNA NIXON
yeah, I'll let you know.

00:26:04.10
Aaron
It sounds like, i mean, it does sound like just from a surface view is that family is very important.

00:26:11.95
LIANNA NIXON
Yeah.

00:26:12.17
Aaron
And that mindset, and I think, goes a long way ah over generations.

00:26:15.24
LIANNA NIXON
Yeah.

00:26:16.48
Aaron
And education, too, seems very important.

00:26:19.37
LIANNA NIXON
Absolutely.

00:26:19.52
Aaron
ah Teaching and learning. and And when you have those two things as a family, I think you can kind of cruise. You can kind of push through a lot and get through a lot.

00:26:26.56
LIANNA NIXON
Oh, for sure. Yeah, I think you just said it way better than I ever could. Thank you.

00:26:33.63
Aaron
well

00:26:34.69
Seth Macey
um give Don't let it go to his head. Come on.

00:26:36.76
LIANNA NIXON
Oh, I'm sorry, it's true.

00:26:37.01
Aaron
I'm good. a twenty s 20, 26 minutes in and I'm all set. I'm done.

00:26:41.37
LIANNA NIXON
drop.

00:26:42.54
Aaron
You guys do the rest.

00:26:47.12
Seth Macey
I mean, there is argument to say that education is the foundation of an innovative and society that flourishes.

00:26:55.22
LIANNA NIXON
Absolutely. And I mean, that's, well,

00:26:57.11
Seth Macey
care Why do you think so?

00:27:00.73
LIANNA NIXON
um this is kind of also the reason why I love storytelling, right? Is because like, that's the first form of education, right? If we think about it, telling stories, sharing experiences is how we help each other grow and learn.

00:27:09.43
Aaron
Mm-hmm.

00:27:09.62
Seth Macey
Right.

00:27:14.77
LIANNA NIXON
I mean, if we didn't educate each other on what plants not to eat, would Homo sapiens be around? I'm not sure. So um yeah, I think,

00:27:22.34
Seth Macey
right

00:27:26.45
LIANNA NIXON
Education is just so important. When I think about, I guess, the Arctic and what I do in terms of education, simply sparking curiosity and wonder about our world around us is one of the most important things to me.

00:27:43.05
LIANNA NIXON
um And that's what tools regarding education storytelling can do, right?

00:27:49.78
Seth Macey
Mm-hmm.

00:27:51.05
LIANNA NIXON
when we are able to spark wonder about like a polar bear, you know, um seeing how incredible that they are and getting to this little tiny look in their world and then being able to back that with things that actually can connect us to them in a deeper way, um hopefully helps us grow, helps us become more compassionate, helps us inform ourselves about where we are and how humbled we are by the world around us, right?

00:28:22.89
LIANNA NIXON
um Not sure if that fully answers your question.

00:28:26.13
Seth Macey
No, it does. and i have I kind of a follow-up. he yeah I think people can go about trying to educate so individuals the wrong way. in other words, people can almost try to...

00:28:38.80
Seth Macey
me rephrase this. We know that telling people what they... Telling people, hey, this is important. You should learn about this. You should know this often doesn't work. right It's like like vegans telling people to stop eating meat. They're being still silly. stop like People don't like being told what to do.

00:28:55.35
Seth Macey
So in other words, you have to kind of let people arrive at at things on their own accord, right?

00:29:01.11
Aaron
Mm-hmm.

00:29:03.00
LIANNA NIXON
Yeah.

00:29:03.12
Seth Macey
You have to kind of open a door for people to want to explore something on their own. And I think my question for you is how can you spark curiosity where people are eager to learn rather than feeling like they're being told what's important and what they should know?

00:29:21.81
LIANNA NIXON
Oh my gosh. This feels like my thesis. um

00:29:25.76
Seth Macey
Okay.

00:29:26.95
LIANNA NIXON
No, that's literally um because, yeah yeah, especially with polarizing topics, like I think about literally my thesis um with the Arctic, you know, that is such a topic of whether climate change exists and whether and human impact and how we look at that.

00:29:37.06
Seth Macey
Mm-hmm.

00:29:45.84
LIANNA NIXON
And there are many different camps about, you know, climate change being real. We're all going to die Everything is screwed versus other people that are like, well, it was, you know, snowing in Dallas like a couple of years ago, you know, we might just be going into the next ice age or something.

00:30:03.28
LIANNA NIXON
um It's incredibly touchy and. Being pushing people too much and pushing certain ideas and values face forward will immediately make people defensive.

00:30:17.70
Seth Macey
Correct. Yeah, that's, guess what I was trying to say, but you've said it more eloquently than I

00:30:18.92
Aaron
Yeah.

00:30:21.26
LIANNA NIXON
Oh, no, I think you did great. But ah you um I guess like for me, when it comes to climate change communication and storytelling, um what I like to lead off with is what I find to be like the spark or like the art, like the point that moves people.

00:30:41.98
LIANNA NIXON
um because that is what's going to get people's attention first. And then they can make the decision to engage more. And then they can make the decision you know, whether or not they want to be open or if they want to stay in their echo chambers of their beliefs and values.

00:30:59.26
Seth Macey
Right.

00:30:59.85
LIANNA NIXON
And um there have been a couple strategies that um I've implemented for like past media works that have worked. um There's other things that you know haven't worked um first is finding joy um science is often just like very uh like stagnant i would like to say like there's a lot of science communication that doesn't bring this humanizing joyful aspect that it can be and i think that component the humanizing the enjoyment of being in the field with the numbers engaging with really cool tools

00:31:41.69
LIANNA NIXON
is something that people don't know that they're missing. so

00:31:47.52
Seth Macey
Right.

00:31:47.64
LIANNA NIXON
ah being able to show scientists having fun, like playing with a, you know, paddleboard, a fake paddleboard in a melt pond, um you know,

00:31:51.98
Aaron
Mm-hmm.

00:31:58.21
LIANNA NIXON
and after being like a 40 year career Russian scientist or something like that is like really astounding for people being like, oh, I guess you can do that. um Really being able to show like what science actually can look like versus like the white lab coat that everybody thinks of.

00:32:15.56
LIANNA NIXON
um Yeah, trying to find the not perfect moments as well. I think that so many of us photographers and I myself find this often is that We search for this perfect image and that's like the end goal for a lot of us.

00:32:32.75
LIANNA NIXON
And being able to show the vulnerability, the the journeys, the imperfections that are around um storytelling or difficult topics can be very helpful.

00:32:46.64
LIANNA NIXON
um And then what other strategies have I tried? um Yeah, using firsthand experiences and stories. um

00:32:57.03
Seth Macey
Right.

00:32:57.79
LIANNA NIXON
Yeah, that like bringing in other expertise, um because, you know, it's cool that I get to go up there, you know, only so many weeks out of the year, but I'm a visitor, and I will always be a visitor to the Arctic, right? so having people who have much better knowledge, who can bring out the fun times, the bad times, um is a lot more effective.

00:33:20.77
LIANNA NIXON
um And if I can, you know, bring a beautiful image behind that, then that's incredible. And I feel like it's successful.

00:33:29.37
Aaron
That's interesting.

00:33:29.41
Seth Macey
Thank

00:33:30.58
Aaron
i just heard something about, it happened to be political. I don't want to get political, but just in terms of the connections between, like you know, left and right or what have you. But one of the points was podcasting and advertising. how casual and conversation people gravitate towards that versus research and science necessarily. It's hard to grab someone to be like, read this 50 page research paper the polar caps. And it's like that,

00:34:01.64
Aaron
Yeah. let's go Can someone talk to me about it? Like, what was their experience? What's the bottom line? Like, I want that connection versus unless you're really looking for that information very specifically, it's hard to get that to the masses.

00:34:09.96
Seth Macey
Thank you.

00:34:16.80
Aaron
Yeah. I think so the storytelling like this podcast, even right now, there's people that are listening and hearing your stories and hearing little tidbits and little things that might spur interest that might spur researching a bit more that might spur ah mean reaching out to you and communicating about it more versus if you throw a scientifically backed peer reviewed journal article in their faces, like how many people are going to get through just the abstract and be like, well,

00:34:17.62
LIANNA NIXON
Yeah.

00:34:46.68
Aaron
all i'm i'm good like i'm not getting i'm not going through this i have too many things to do um so i think i think that is an interesting point to have like that that storytelling and tying in the science to it to get people interested and connect

00:34:49.92
Seth Macey
Thank you.

00:35:04.81
LIANNA NIXON
Yeah, absolutely. And I think what science does is a huge disservice to making it relevant in society, because that's the point.

00:35:12.49
Aaron
hmm

00:35:13.91
LIANNA NIXON
Science is supposed to be relevant to society. It's supposed to help us learn more about you know what it is to be here in this blink in time. but often it's trapped behind multiple degrees, difficult language.

00:35:27.31
LIANNA NIXON
um You know, when we do public outreach, we try to keep all language at like a seventh grade um level of reading.

00:35:37.89
LIANNA NIXON
And that's because we want to make sure that publicly most people can understand those things. But Science definitely gate keeps and it's something where I think there are some scientists that want to, you know, break that pattern and want to make it more accessible.

00:35:55.85
LIANNA NIXON
And that's where storytelling and art science collaborations kind of come in handy.

00:36:03.13
Seth Macey
Yeah, I think what's also really important for, i mean, especially you, Aaron said, you know, you're doing a very interesting thing in a very unique part of the world. i guess with, ah maybe I'm making this assumption, but you it's important probably for you to stay relatable. Like, how do you remain relatable to the average person, average photographer, average whatever, you know, when you're when you're on a sea ice expedition and on ah on a boat in the middle of you know, way up North, I think people gravitate towards things they can relate to across all forms of media. And I think this ties into what we were just talking about. i mean, how do I relate to a 50 page science paper? I don't.

00:36:50.71
Seth Macey
Right.

00:36:51.54
LIANNA NIXON
right?

00:36:51.97
Seth Macey
so

00:36:54.63
Seth Macey
is be is remain or Is keeping things relatable something that you think about for yourself or when you know when you're trying to educate, et cetera?

00:37:07.16
LIANNA NIXON
Yeah, absolutely. um When I'm on the ship that we're on for guiding, i don't think a lot of people would have realized like my educational background because i I think I just act plain silly, i guess.

00:37:22.91
LIANNA NIXON
um I'm there to have fun and I think I'm very joyful and optimistic.

00:37:27.45
Seth Macey
Mm-hmm.

00:37:28.11
LIANNA NIXON
I probably ask my coworkers that, but, um, even the crew members have called me giggles because I just laugh all the time. I don't know. It's just like the golden retriever personality that keeps me relatable to people.

00:37:40.84
LIANNA NIXON
But, um, when we do get to dig into topics, like we do talks and these talks are based on animals that we see. And then like bringing up the conservation topics that are around them, apart from really cool, fun facts that are all can be absorbed within a 25 minute talk.

00:37:58.72
LIANNA NIXON
um So doing things small and incrementally is huge um because we can only absorb so much fun facts.

00:38:00.30
Seth Macey
Thank

00:38:05.93
LIANNA NIXON
um And then being able to, you know, take somebody's experience that they just had on board the ship and be like, okay, like you just saw this. This is amazing.

00:38:17.09
LIANNA NIXON
Here's the behavior that we looked at and why is it so cool? And let's connect it to something bigger. um And that you know, has been really unique, especially in the guiding world and being on board the ship.

00:38:31.29
LIANNA NIXON
Now, when it came to working in the research world and being able to take these topics and trying to make it relatable, um for me, I think it was just being able to tell some of my own experiences and stories, not just like the story around the Arctic climate system, you know, um being able to talk about I don't know, like the one time I fell through the ice, um nearly crushed all my camera gear, but somehow saved it all or, you know, um what it was like to go swimming in a melt pond.

00:38:56.57
Seth Macey
Right.

00:38:57.78
Aaron
Yeah. Let's do it.

00:39:05.59
LIANNA NIXON
I don't know, like little little things that, um you know, that make people just kind of think a little bit differently and then give them something else to connect to.

00:39:18.55
Seth Macey
Right, right. That makes sense. I think, i mean, i this, what I'm about to say can open up a whole two hour discussion, but I think part of the problem is too, is that people, people are starting to believe less and less in objective fact.

00:39:37.27
Seth Macey
right like Everything now has become subjective to the point where objectivity is just a such a small piece of the pie in terms of how it's perceived.

00:39:49.91
Aaron
Yeah,

00:39:50.63
Seth Macey
right like Facts are facts, but now they're also not. And it's hard to kind of

00:39:59.26
Seth Macey
dictate or display things for what they are when everyone is an expert and nothing is true.

00:40:09.57
Seth Macey
And that's just kind of a hard, that's hard to cut through, I feel like.

00:40:09.81
LIANNA NIXON
Yeah.

00:40:13.89
Seth Macey
Yeah.

00:40:15.14
LIANNA NIXON
Yeah. So are we doing a second podcast now?

00:40:17.70
Aaron
yeah ge

00:40:17.66
LIANNA NIXON
um Awesome.

00:40:18.91
Seth Macey
yeah

00:40:21.38
LIANNA NIXON
No, I agree. i think social media, for example, because this is I feel like where a lot of the objective becomes very subjective. um It's a microcosm, an echo chamber of belief and idea. like Science now and has to have like belief in it. like I believe in this, I believe in that, when like science is empirical-based reasoning and fact.

00:40:48.81
LIANNA NIXON
it's you know

00:40:49.17
Seth Macey
Right.

00:40:49.78
LIANNA NIXON
It goes through this entire process that takes out and most human like subjectivity to make it completely objective, to be like, here are the things.

00:41:01.47
LIANNA NIXON
Go with purpose, you know. um But I think this is where social media can be really difficult. I see a lot of different things um based on other media outlets as well that, you know, fuel different schools of thought.

00:41:18.12
Seth Macey
right

00:41:18.47
LIANNA NIXON
And what also think is. hard too is that in this world of subjectivity, um digital literacy is not really a huge focal point anymore.

00:41:29.52
LIANNA NIXON
It used to be, but um being able to look at what you were being exposed to in these different formats, um especially with social media, is quite hard um to be able to stop the passive scrolling, which I definitely do scroll.

00:41:30.23
Seth Macey
Thank you.

00:41:47.89
LIANNA NIXON
um And you can see things and you're being exposed to things, but you're not taking the time to process and like be like, okay, is this like some sort of fact or is this just based on my algorithm that, you know, Instagram wants me look at?

00:42:01.45
LIANNA NIXON
ah Exactly.

00:42:02.03
Aaron
mm-hmm

00:42:02.02
LIANNA NIXON
So, yeah.

00:42:02.76
Seth Macey
Right. So then don't you start to don't you start to get, if that happens every day for too long, you get to a place where you say, what is real?

00:42:11.89
LIANNA NIXON
Exactly. Yeah. And especially when you have, you know, i think, We have at least my observations just from where I live, we surround ourselves, including our social circles, our parents, you know, like all these things, like we surround ourselves with certain sets of opinions.

00:42:35.23
LIANNA NIXON
And now we have... um other factors like social media, AI, whatever, other traditional media outlets that you can choose that will just cause you to listen to the same things and continue to isolate you more.

00:42:51.31
LIANNA NIXON
um It's really hard to be critical when you also lack trust within objectivity. So...

00:43:02.50
Seth Macey
Yes, then I guess a big part of what you do is... i mean, I'm interested in you. You're talking lot. You're sharing a lot of anecdote about how you're educating people on the boat or on the ship or on a guide right during the experience.

00:43:16.86
LIANNA NIXON
Right.

00:43:17.21
Seth Macey
What about digitally?

00:43:19.88
LIANNA NIXON
Yeah. So on social media, um because that's like, I guess my main framework right now, i also, you know, try to do things like short films and whatever I can produce when I have the capability at a time.

00:43:29.80
Seth Macey
Mm-hmm.

00:43:33.71
LIANNA NIXON
um ah try to bring people in with with neutral facts that then might connect to an issue that is... a little bit more polarizing, but has the research back knowledge. um So, you know, for example, like mosaic um with the sea ice and what that looks like, you know, within our lifetime, the North Pole sea ice pack will be, will have ice free summers.

00:44:03.07
LIANNA NIXON
That's inevitable. um Even some of the most global conservative climate models are saying no sea ice in the Arctic Ocean. sea ice pack is inevitable within our lifetime.

00:44:17.48
LIANNA NIXON
And I think that's so big and abstract and um it's hard to believe and fathom and grasp, even if you understand the science, you're like, how does the millions of square miles of all this ice just disappear?

00:44:37.12
LIANNA NIXON
um It's hard. it's It's really hard to take something that can be so large and abstract and hard to handle and piecemeal it in a way that's going to be easy for and digestible for people. Yeah.

00:44:51.54
Seth Macey
right i mean because like myself i can't even envision what that means

00:44:55.27
LIANNA NIXON
yeah um

00:44:56.66
Aaron
And there's, there's ah is there a fear behind it? Like this messaging that humans just don't, we don't want to be in fear and we don't want to be uncomfortable.

00:45:08.40
Aaron
So, oh, if there's other messaging that says that's all fake, that seems easier.

00:45:08.59
LIANNA NIXON
Right.

00:45:13.96
Aaron
I'm going to go with that and just carry on with my day because I don't want to stress about this thing. this big thing that I really, I don't know if I, as a single person have any control over this.

00:45:27.74
Seth Macey
Thank you.

00:45:28.50
Aaron
Right.

00:45:28.47
LIANNA NIXON
right

00:45:28.97
Aaron
So as, as the, the average person, I think gets the there news, we kind of plinko our way between like, that scares me. I don't want to go that way. ah That makes me anxious. I don't want to go that way.

00:45:40.52
Aaron
Where's the messaging that makes me feel okay with exactly what I'm doing right now.

00:45:45.35
LIANNA NIXON
Yeah, I think we as humans crave validation and comfort. And when we can find the things that help validate our emotions, our feelings, our values, like we're going to feel safer and cling that a lot more. um Yeah, it is hard to fathom some of these like bigger topics and these topics that scientists are trying to grapple with and you know, you try to photograph it and you're like, how do you make a photo work to describe disappearing ice?

00:46:19.58
LIANNA NIXON
Yeah.

00:46:20.06
Seth Macey
Right, exactly. And I'm glad you said it. It's like, how do you how do you embody that topic? you know And then there's the other camp who's like, okay, great. I hear what you're saying. The ice is going to disappear in my lifetime.

00:46:32.40
Seth Macey
That sucks. Here I am. Like, you know, the picture of a person standing in front of a tidal wave just accepting it.

00:46:39.04
LIANNA NIXON
Yeah. Yeah.

00:46:40.24
Seth Macey
I often find myself like that.

00:46:40.33
LIANNA NIXON
yeah

00:46:41.56
Seth Macey
Like, okay, I hear you.

00:46:43.02
LIANNA NIXON
Yeah.

00:46:43.59
Seth Macey
Yeah.

00:46:44.84
LIANNA NIXON
Exactly.

00:46:46.08
Aaron
Yeah, it's tough. We hiked Exit Glacier in Seward, Alaska. And as you're going up it, there's these stakes in the ground. This is where the ice was 100 years ago. This is where it was 50 years ago.

00:46:59.63
Aaron
And that's about as real and as meaningful So you can feel like, whoa, like this is really retreating. And like, look at it now. It it looks, I can't believe it was hundreds and hundreds of yards this way.

00:47:14.12
Aaron
And it's retreating and melting and there's flow.

00:47:14.22
LIANNA NIXON
Yeah.

00:47:18.06
Aaron
And yeah, like Seth said, like, it's i like, okay, like now what?

00:47:22.43
LIANNA NIXON
yeah

00:47:23.46
Seth Macey
Right. So my thought is like, is it is it fair to just say, wow, crazy?

00:47:25.13
Aaron
Yeah.

00:47:32.18
LIANNA NIXON
I think it's fair.

00:47:32.39
Seth Macey
Or is there responsibility? Like, i don't I don't know. I mean, you can you could you could look at that and be like, oh my God, we got to do something, to do something. Or you could look at it and be like,

00:47:44.64
Seth Macey
whoa, crazy.

00:47:46.29
Aaron
I don't, it's a my like in education, I'm in education. When you instill a new program, whatever that program may be, like let's say positive behavior support, like you can have a program implemented where you're going to really focus on kids and their behavior that's positive and, and, and and notice that versus punishing them for mistakes. You're going to notice the good.

00:48:10.09
Aaron
It's just a program as an example.

00:48:12.02
LIANNA NIXON
Mm-hmm.

00:48:12.47
Aaron
Right from the beginning, they say you need 85% buy-in from your teachers. You need 85% of your teachers to believe that this is a good program for it to even get off the ground and work.

00:48:22.80
Seth Macey
Mm-hmm.

00:48:23.88
Aaron
So where I see us and maybe on purpose, like, again, this is our third podcast we could get into is this sort of, let's keep it 50, 50.

00:48:35.74
Aaron
Let's keep all the issues right in the middle with two sides fighting. Then there's no movement where there doesn't need to be movement for whomever else to keep

00:48:49.05
LIANNA NIXON
Yeah.

00:48:49.31
Aaron
probably making money is what it comes down to. So for a lot of these things, I think there, if there were 85% of the population that was concerned about deeply concerned about what do we do to turn this or change it.

00:49:05.59
Aaron
And if it meant like, Hey, stop, stop, uh, driving your SUV, buy a different car.

00:49:11.59
Seth Macey
you

00:49:12.56
Aaron
If it meant whatever, a million different things.

00:49:15.93
LIANNA NIXON
yeah

00:49:16.32
Aaron
Uh, if we all sort of love, we're like, yeah, this is going to be bad. ah let's do these things, I feel like things can change. Things can drastically change. When the world was under the ah COVID and pandemic sort of ah feeling at the time of like, we kind of said like, all right, this is what we need to do. This is what we need to figure out. And even that was controversial with like,

00:49:40.92
Aaron
ah Do you get vaccinated? Do you not? If you do, then this, if you like, yeah.

00:49:43.85
Seth Macey
Oh, God.

00:49:45.47
Aaron
So, right. But I'm just saying that it's very hard, even in the face of doom, in the face of pandemic to be everyone being like, this is the way we go.

00:49:47.03
Seth Macey
Don't take us there.

00:49:48.39
LIANNA NIXON
yeah

00:49:57.90
Aaron
Unless Martians come down and take over. I feel like that's, that's the one thing where we, as a humans, we go like, Hey, we have to all come together or our world is going to be exploded by some foreign entity.

00:50:01.12
Seth Macey
I see your point.

00:50:10.53
Aaron
Like, but we're doing it within ourselves. That was very deep.

00:50:17.45
LIANNA NIXON
Oh my gosh. Okay. Well, I, you know, it's a lot. I'm going just,

00:50:23.19
Aaron
I told you at the 40 minute mark, we started to get dark and that happened.

00:50:25.72
LIANNA NIXON
Yeah. youd I mean, yeah.

00:50:27.77
Seth Macey
It's us that flipped the switch and just...

00:50:28.88
LIANNA NIXON
here

00:50:29.61
Aaron
Yeah.

00:50:30.16
LIANNA NIXON
Yeah. The inevitability, the climate change conversation.

00:50:30.38
Aaron
Self-fulfilling.

00:50:33.54
LIANNA NIXON
um you know, in terms of the holding out the arms and just being like, accept it. um I think that, you know, there are different things that we can do on different scales.

00:50:45.08
LIANNA NIXON
I think it's very unfair that a lot of the climate solution narratives is on a individual base and not looking at, you know, the biggest carbon emitting um organizations or individuals.

00:50:52.19
Seth Macey
Yeah.

00:50:59.74
LIANNA NIXON
um To ask a family that is, you know, um like a, that needs to feed a certain amount of kids, you know, they could have like a family of three and being like, okay, you need to like eat vegan.

00:51:14.97
LIANNA NIXON
Like we need you to be plant-based. And plant-based doesn't mean eating vegan fully. It could be, you know, just not having meat every day which is, you know, can be compromisable.

00:51:22.79
Seth Macey
Okay.

00:51:24.64
LIANNA NIXON
But like, if you live in places where fresh produce, like you're in a food desert, you're not going to go spend a lot more money on these things that are way more expensive.

00:51:35.58
LIANNA NIXON
You're trying to keep your kids fed, right?

00:51:37.40
Aaron
Mm-hmm.

00:51:37.41
LIANNA NIXON
You're trying to make sure that you can go through life the best that you can. And I think that's all that we hope for, right? So I think there is like with some of the programs that we do, I think it's cool.

00:51:50.79
LIANNA NIXON
um I've been part of programs where we've had citizen science initiatives. So getting people um to, be interested about things like geomagnetism and, you know, um different aspects of our climate systems, like through people contributing to science, which has been helpful and kind of sparks the, okay, I've learned about this. Like, how do I make a little bit of an individual difference?

00:52:17.08
LIANNA NIXON
And then there are other programs that look at the individual and being like, okay, we're going to, look at ocean trash or something like that and, you know, think about where we put our dollar and packaging and stuff like that, which is cool too.

00:52:33.60
LIANNA NIXON
And then there are, of course, other programs that can look at collective and community related things. um There's one really cool program um called Heart Force, which is part of the Cooperative Institute for Research in Environmental Sciences um that looks at like climate disasters in Colorado and how people can be connected with their community and community initiatives to respond to those things.

00:53:00.08
Seth Macey
Right.

00:53:02.14
LIANNA NIXON
And it's not just, you know, um it's like it goes into climate mental health as well, which is something that's huge um on an individual and collective scale.

00:53:13.91
LIANNA NIXON
And I don't know, it helps you think a little bit bigger of not just what can I do, but what can we do?

00:53:20.16
Seth Macey
right

00:53:21.88
LIANNA NIXON
and And don't know, I think it's, you kind of have to have a little sprinkle of everything and and then be able to inform yourself to think of, you know, here's the information, here's the facts that I have, here's the tools and resources that I can respond to those things. But now I can i can choose, you know, how I go about this.

00:53:42.62
LIANNA NIXON
If this is just me eating, me eating. like less in the week, cool. If this is about me, you know, advocating and on a bigger scale, cool. If it's me being inspired not to just be a photographer, but like going to legislation, you know, something like that.

00:54:00.71
LIANNA NIXON
Cool. um I don't know.

00:54:03.06
Seth Macey
Yeah, I like that. And I'm glad that you said that the individual, you know, shouldn't bear the entire responsibility.

00:54:09.12
LIANNA NIXON
No, they shouldn't.

00:54:09.23
Seth Macey
It's totally unfair.

00:54:10.83
LIANNA NIXON
um It is.

00:54:13.12
Seth Macey
um Tell us about your time spent with the Navajo communities.

00:54:17.33
LIANNA NIXON
Oh, with the Navajo. um

00:54:18.77
Seth Macey
Navajo, sorry.

00:54:20.07
LIANNA NIXON
No, you're fine.

00:54:20.51
Aaron
Canadian.

00:54:21.34
Seth Macey
What did I say? Ignorant Canadian.

00:54:23.19
Aaron
Navajo.

00:54:23.41
LIANNA NIXON
ki That's okay.

00:54:25.08
Aaron
It's his accent.

00:54:25.87
Seth Macey
was it What was it?

00:54:26.36
Aaron
It's his accent.

00:54:26.79
Seth Macey
Navajo? And I said Navajo?

00:54:27.74
Aaron
Yeah.

00:54:28.60
LIANNA NIXON
Yeah, that's okay.

00:54:28.77
Aaron
Navajo.

00:54:29.60
Seth Macey
Oh, tomato potato.

00:54:33.30
LIANNA NIXON
Same, same, but different. um

00:54:34.84
Aaron
Awesome. Yeah.

00:54:35.13
Seth Macey
I'm kidding with tomato potato. I understand it's important.

00:54:37.88
LIANNA NIXON
Yeah, no worries. um Yeah, so I have been, I work with the Navajo community that's located in Monument Valley, Navajo Tribal Park, which is, if you've ever watched like a John Ford movie, like that backdrop is Monument Valley.

00:54:49.12
Aaron
awesome

00:54:55.47
Aaron
yeah

00:54:57.08
LIANNA NIXON
And um I started working with them through a family friend.

00:55:00.42
Seth Macey
Thank you.

00:55:03.27
LIANNA NIXON
See, family family affair with everything.

00:55:04.59
Aaron
Mm-hmm.

00:55:05.79
LIANNA NIXON
um ah i was going to visit and go horseback riding in the area. And she asked me to take photos of her friend's home. Her name is Effie Yazzie.

00:55:18.27
LIANNA NIXON
And I had learned that, you know, EFI has no access to water electrical infrastructure and that this issue is um much, much bigger.

00:55:32.31
LIANNA NIXON
About 30 to 40% of Navajo residents don't have a access to water or electrical infrastructure in the United States, which I thought was crazy, especially, you know,

00:55:43.44
Aaron
Yeah.

00:55:46.89
LIANNA NIXON
so many people don't have access to clean water in the United States.

00:55:47.22
Seth Macey
you

00:55:51.16
LIANNA NIXON
Uh, this is still a you know, much bigger issue. That's just not being spoken about at all. Um, so got to know Effie a little bit more and with her, the family friend named Pam Doverspike, and then another community member named, uh, Dr. Tommy rock who, um,

00:56:12.43
LIANNA NIXON
does a lot of incredible research in environmental sciences relating directly to where he lives in Jato and Navajo Nation. We started this nonprofit called CEPI, which means Within the Valley.

00:56:25.68
LIANNA NIXON
And we provide water and electrical off-grid resources to the residents currently inside the Monument Valley Navajo Tribal Park, but hopefully we expand a little more.

00:56:36.75
LIANNA NIXON
We're very small.

00:56:39.36
Seth Macey
Cool. Very good.

00:56:40.55
Aaron
That's very, that's very neat.

00:56:40.61
LIANNA NIXON
Yeah.

00:56:43.34
LIANNA NIXON
Yes.

00:56:44.54
Aaron
That's an amazing area. It's spiritual.

00:56:47.20
LIANNA NIXON
It's incredible. There no other feeling like being out there. It's actually kind of similar to the Arctic because technically they're both deserts, but it is.

00:56:57.93
LIANNA NIXON
Yeah, it is.

00:56:58.51
Aaron
Yeah, very, yeah, other planet LA.

00:57:01.72
LIANNA NIXON
Yeah.

00:57:02.01
Aaron
Planet? yeah

00:57:03.14
LIANNA NIXON
it is

00:57:04.90
Seth Macey
Otherworldly.

00:57:06.14
Aaron
worldly planet, but a different planet, different world. Yeah. Same thing.

00:57:10.14
LIANNA NIXON
yeah

00:57:10.31
Aaron
Um, on Mars, speaking of Mars, my second Mars reference in one episode.

00:57:13.86
LIANNA NIXON
a little bit yeah i mean it's ancient you can you can feel it um monument valley especially is where the navajo story

00:57:23.04
Seth Macey
Oh. oh

00:57:26.91
LIANNA NIXON
um monument valley is where the navajo creation story started um that's where mother earth and father sky met and so that's where like their creation story is very complicated but um it like for me to remember personally, which I feel bad about. But um yeah, they it's just incredible to be in that place and feel the ancientness.

00:57:52.46
LIANNA NIXON
Effie's family's been there for over eight generations, for example, caring for that land in that area.

00:57:56.80
Aaron
yeah That's awesome.

00:57:59.06
LIANNA NIXON
And it's such a close tie.

00:58:05.40
Aaron
Seth and I visited there our first trip.

00:58:07.47
LIANNA NIXON
When?

00:58:09.47
Aaron
Our first TPM trip. We went ah southwest.

00:58:11.24
LIANNA NIXON
Cool.

00:58:12.27
Aaron
We went to Zion and curled around to Monument Valley.

00:58:18.13
Seth Macey
Yeah, it was awesome.

00:58:19.19
Aaron
and then drove back to Vegas. It was a long drive ah to fly out.

00:58:20.81
LIANNA NIXON
and

00:58:23.46
Aaron
But ah yeah, it was it was beautiful. i Seth, we were tired. This was the end of our trip. And we drove Seth drove a long way there the night prior. We were only there for a day and one night.

00:58:35.48
Aaron
Well, two days really, and then one night. um But I got up for sunrise and coyotes going off around me, the sunrise coming up, lighting up those ah plateaus.

00:58:44.21
LIANNA NIXON
Oh,

00:58:48.51
Aaron
And this, don't know, I don't want to say wild horse, but a horse that was free ranged, just kind of drifting, came through like this golden light right in front of me.

00:58:54.43
LIANNA NIXON
no.

00:59:00.05
Aaron
And I was like, oh my God, this is the best picture in the world.

00:59:01.93
LIANNA NIXON
You

00:59:02.62
Seth Macey
I'm so jealous in that picture.

00:59:04.57
Aaron
ah couldn't believe it yeah that's just sleeping he needed he needed it he needed the sleep yeah yeah it's somewhere down there but that was a good one

00:59:05.60
LIANNA NIXON
don't?

00:59:05.65
Seth Macey
i was fast asleep.

00:59:07.38
LIANNA NIXON
oh no like

00:59:10.08
Seth Macey
No, I don't regret it. No.

00:59:11.95
LIANNA NIXON
you don't Okay.

00:59:14.25
Seth Macey
Yeah, I need it.

00:59:14.43
LIANNA NIXON
I would have real photography FOMO. Honestly, I saw your photo. I should go look at your photo and now that you mention it. Yeah.

00:59:26.52
LIANNA NIXON
Some of them are wild, actually, the horses down there, or they they are some buddies and they're just like, be free, just like with the sheep that are down there.

00:59:33.41
Aaron
yeah

00:59:34.02
LIANNA NIXON
And you're like, who's hurt is this?

00:59:35.76
Aaron
Yeah, they sure were. They were free.

00:59:38.29
LIANNA NIXON
Yeah.

00:59:39.22
Aaron
Hanging out.

00:59:40.25
LIANNA NIXON
so That's incredible. Yeah, the light is incredible there too.

00:59:41.93
Aaron
Yeah. All

00:59:46.09
LIANNA NIXON
Yeah, waking up for sunrises and being there for sunset. It's the shadows and how they play on on the land, the plateaus versus um different areas. It's just crazy.

00:59:56.79
Aaron
over.

00:59:58.25
Seth Macey
What's your favorite part about being a photographer? I know we've talked about, we've been all over the place, just talked about a lot of different things and I like it, but I feel like you could ask maybe a few more photography questions before we wrap up.

01:00:02.29
Aaron
All over.

01:00:10.15
Seth Macey
um Maybe some generic ones. Like what's your favorite part about just taking videos and doing short films and and things like that? Is it the creative part? Is it seeing an idea come to fruition? Is it the sharing aspect? What is it for you?

01:00:21.77
LIANNA NIXON
It's definitely the sharing aspect. um I especially like if I get to tell stories for other people who haven't been able to communicate, you know, their part in the world, um being able to bring that to them in a way that makes them feel empowered.

01:00:38.62
LIANNA NIXON
and makes them feel really heard and seen in the ways that they want to be. So yeah, I think being able to build up those trusting relationships within a story and then communicating that is my favorite.

01:00:52.32
Seth Macey
Nice. Is there anything you would tell your beginner photographer self?

01:00:55.89
LIANNA NIXON
Oh gosh. um

01:00:57.85
Seth Macey
I'm with younger you.

01:01:00.41
Aaron
Yeah.

01:01:00.66
LIANNA NIXON
ah Don't doubt yourself.

01:01:03.36
Seth Macey
Okay.

01:01:04.08
LIANNA NIXON
Yeah, I think even though i was surrounded by this incredible photography community, um it is, you often can get imposter syndrome.

01:01:15.06
LIANNA NIXON
I also think sometimes being a female photographer, you get a little bit more imposter syndrome sometimes.

01:01:20.90
Seth Macey
ooh Tell us about that because we have no first-hand experience with that, as you can tell.

01:01:22.69
Aaron
yeah

01:01:24.79
LIANNA NIXON
Oh, no.

01:01:25.95
Seth Macey
not

01:01:26.26
LIANNA NIXON
Okay. Um, well, yeah, I think sometimes a lot of female photographers, at least in my experience, have been thought to, you know, if you're carrying really heavy gear, you're not going to go very far.

01:01:40.85
LIANNA NIXON
Um, like having 70 pounds of gear on your back. Um,

01:01:44.23
Seth Macey
Like, guess is this self-belief or self-doubt or you feel like it's...

01:01:48.66
LIANNA NIXON
It's the doubt from the industry, I feel like, that sometimes happen, which then i I'm like a very, I could be a critical person myself, so then I internalize things a lot more.

01:01:51.06
Seth Macey
Oh, okay. Okay.

01:01:59.79
LIANNA NIXON
And I know a lot of, um I've known other female photographers who have struggled with this. um You know, I have a friend who, um okay, Melissa Schaefer, just gonna, she's like best friend of all time, the mother expedition's a co-leader to her counterpart, Frederick Gannath.

01:02:17.16
LIANNA NIXON
And she's the photographer of the duo and they are the coolest team because Fred also did photography.

01:02:17.49
Aaron
Mm-hmm.

01:02:24.39
LIANNA NIXON
He's been out in Svalbard for over 25 years. And then when they kind of became this team um for storytelling, Melissa became the main photographer. And, you know, sometimes media would, and just sharing out her story, like they would credit Fred over her for photography because she was told that the male voice sounded better with, you know, versus a female's voice for some of the images.

01:02:47.09
Aaron
Mm-hmm.

01:02:50.79
LIANNA NIXON
And I've had, you know, in my own career doing Elle Nixon versus Leanna, because, you know, people may engage a little bit more. um So I don't know, sometimes like female photographers or um I've had personally with my career also, um people ask me, how do I get out in these places? And I'm like, you work hard and you do all these skills.

01:03:15.64
LIANNA NIXON
And they're like, oh, but you probably just figured out a way to go there or you're a trust fund baby or something. I don't know, just like little, ah yeah, yeah.

01:03:24.29
Seth Macey
Must be nice attitude sucks. Do you know I um

01:03:28.51
Aaron
yeah

01:03:29.76
Seth Macey
All must be nice says is I'm bitter and jealous. ah Regardless of how somebody got to where they are, must be nice does nothing for you and propelling you forward.

01:03:41.39
LIANNA NIXON
Yeah, I would say that. um That's way better. Yeah, and I don't mean to like call out certain things or, you know, right here right now.

01:03:48.62
Aaron
yeah

01:03:49.08
Seth Macey
This is your experience.

01:03:49.46
LIANNA NIXON
like

01:03:50.14
Seth Macey
you know This is your experience.

01:03:50.56
LIANNA NIXON
hey um

01:03:53.50
Aaron
yeah

01:03:54.15
Seth Macey
This is you how you ah you've as you described. seen the world or how things have happened to you as as as you describe so

01:04:03.72
Aaron
You're being nice about it

01:04:03.66
LIANNA NIXON
Yeah. Yeah.

01:04:05.90
Aaron
just explaining it.

01:04:06.00
LIANNA NIXON
And I will say one more thing, which was a great thing. Part of my interview questions, which I heard was only for the female people and not the male people for Mosaic, was...

01:04:16.54
Seth Macey
thought you' were going to say for our show.

01:04:16.96
LIANNA NIXON
No, no.

01:04:17.82
Seth Macey
I was like, what? Are we on me?

01:04:20.68
Aaron
Seth, you shared that with her? Our notes?

01:04:23.15
Seth Macey
Okay. I accidentally sent her the mail question prep.

01:04:23.89
LIANNA NIXON
So... know No.

01:04:28.48
Aaron
um

01:04:29.22
LIANNA NIXON
So for the Mosaic expedition, I was asked how I would keep warm. like and that was apparently a pointed question to females I heard this later um for male counterparts that were applying which oddly enough two female storytellers myself and another person named Amy Lauren got the parts and it was like I don't know you just wear warm clothes like a lot of you know um but there is this like image that I think women have to work really hard to break down about like us not being able to like be rugged and out there like, and being able to be uncomfortable, you know?

01:05:05.04
Aaron
Mm-hmm.

01:05:09.83
LIANNA NIXON
um And it's a fun challenge, I think, to break those glass ceilings. And there are some really cool organizations like Girls Who Click and Wildlife Camera Women that are you know trying to help women break into this industry and um you know annihilate these standards.

01:05:26.89
Aaron
Yeah, it's good. It's interesting that like women literally make a human baby for 10 months, nine months in their bodies and give birth.

01:05:39.55
Aaron
And we're like, are you able to stay warm? Are you able to stay warm?

01:05:44.84
Seth Macey
I look over and Haley's in her heated blanket right now.

01:05:45.17
Aaron
i think

01:05:48.57
LIANNA NIXON
There you go.

01:05:49.14
Aaron
She's like, I'm freezing and it's 75

01:05:51.59
LIANNA NIXON
Yeah. Yeah.

01:05:53.31
Aaron
It is what it is. But I feel like we should maybe give women some more credit sometimes for their ability to withstand uncomfortable situations. Because i don't want to give birth at all.

01:06:06.12
LIANNA NIXON
Yeah. I mean...

01:06:07.55
Aaron
Personally.

01:06:08.54
LIANNA NIXON
I feel you there, like thinking about that daunting task of like getting watermelon through something like this.

01:06:14.32
Aaron
Oh, geez. Yeah.

01:06:15.12
LIANNA NIXON
oh Well, right.

01:06:16.78
Aaron
Yeah. Yeah. Podcast for child labor.

01:06:18.41
LIANNA NIXON
Yeah. Yeah. Oh my gosh.

01:06:21.25
Seth Macey
Yeah, I'm good on that front.

01:06:23.32
Aaron
We'll stop there, I think.

01:06:23.31
LIANNA NIXON
Okay.

01:06:25.00
Aaron
But...

01:06:27.71
Aaron
one i have one wrap-up question. We were talking photography. The other part of our show is mindset. And maybe you touched on this a little bit, but now that you've been through some of those experiences and where you are now, what what's some of the strongest attributes to your mindset in this industry? And where where' is there a spot you still feel like I feel like we all have like this young version of ourselves where it's like, Oh, that's the scared child.

01:06:54.54
Aaron
Like that's the child that was insecure about that thing. And with age, those things fade nicely. I, I found, uh, but where, where are you with your mindset? What's a strength of yours and what's something that you you keep running into the universe keeps testing you and you have to overcome.

01:07:16.84
LIANNA NIXON
Oh, that's good. um i think I'm going to start off with the overcoming first. um I think when you aspire to be a storyteller or photographer, you think of like the traditional journey of what a lot of people take and how that is the measure of success.

01:07:38.47
LIANNA NIXON
You know, being able to um whether it's like for some people, the success is like winning winning competitions. success could be, you know, like, at least when I was a kid, I thought if you were a National Geographic explorer, like that was it for your like storytelling and photography career.

01:07:57.33
LIANNA NIXON
um And, you know, I think for me, overcoming was just like,

01:08:05.06
LIANNA NIXON
not just like, oh, this is difficult to explain. It's more of like, there's not one right way to be a storyteller or photographer.

01:08:17.20
LIANNA NIXON
um There's not one right path. ah There's the way that you measure success is so individual to you in your career, i think. um You know, you could be somebody that has numerous sponsors, you could be a National Geographic explorer, you could be a multi award winning photographer, and that could be your success or your success like now for me is like, am I telling Effie's story, for example, um about how she's lived without water and how um water issues um have changed throughout her lifetime. Like, have I done justice to her? Does she feel empowered? Does she feel beautiful in that story and what we're doing?

01:09:04.89
LIANNA NIXON
um I think that's like the overcoming is like looking at what you've accomplished and trying to see the successes in that.

01:09:15.43
LIANNA NIXON
um

01:09:16.21
Aaron
Yeah. Mm-hmm.

01:09:16.22
LIANNA NIXON
and knowing that it's so unique in that journey. And I guess the way that I have kind of checked myself, humbled myself, and found this for myself is just the optimism to look at the small victories, to look at the aspects of your community and the people that you surround yourself with.

01:09:39.38
LIANNA NIXON
And You know, knowing that if you can just tell one person's story and they feel heard and profound makes a huge difference.

01:09:48.67
Aaron
Beautiful.

01:09:50.77
Seth Macey
Excellent. Thanks for joining us today, Leanna.

01:09:53.24
LIANNA NIXON
Yeah, thanks for having me. I so appreciate it.

01:09:56.20
Seth Macey
Yeah, it was awesome. And you guys didn't even see me rub afterbite on my legs.

01:09:59.72
LIANNA NIXON
my gosh.

01:10:00.58
Aaron
We smelled it.

01:10:01.69
Seth Macey
Yeah.

01:10:02.64
LIANNA NIXON
Yeah, through the screens. What?

01:10:04.99
Seth Macey
My smelling salts if I'm ever low on energy. You didn't bore us today though, Leanna.

01:10:10.27
LIANNA NIXON
what

01:10:10.35
Aaron
Yeah, thank you.

01:10:10.93
Seth Macey
You didn't bore us, so I didn't need to use it as a smelling salt.

01:10:13.28
LIANNA NIXON
Yeah, yeah, you didn't. That's, that's great.

01:10:14.71
Seth Macey
You were engaged.

01:10:15.68
LIANNA NIXON
That's good.

01:10:16.87
Seth Macey
Good storyteller.

01:10:18.77
Aaron
Yeah.

01:10:19.64
Seth Macey
Thank you for your time. Appreciate it.

01:10:21.31
LIANNA NIXON
Yeah, of course. So sorry again about um the Tuesday. oh my gosh. Yeah.