The Photographer Mindset
The Photographer Mindset
"Have To" "Should Do" or "Want To"... The Mindset Shift Every Creator Needs
In this episode, we dive into the balance between passion and practicality in creative pursuits. We share personal stories about the pressures of turning hobbies into careers, the challenges of burnout, and how we’ve redefined success on our own terms. From navigating the "have to," "should," and "want to" moments to finding ways to keep the joy alive, we reflect on how timing, mindset, and self-awareness have shaped our creative journeys. If you’re looking for relatable insights and practical takeaways to stay inspired, this one’s for you.
Expect to Learn:
- How to identify creative burnout, and understand its causes
- The realities of turning a creative hobby into a career
- How focusing on gratitude can help you find fulfillment
- Why it’s essential to say "no" to certain opportunities
- How to embrace constructive criticism and curate your best work
Sponsor:
Thanks to WhiteWall for being our lead sponsor this episode! They're the top choice for photographers who want high-quality prints, with a variety of material options, and who want their work delivered fast in 9 days or less!
Use the code TPM2025 at checkout for 15% off:
Our Links:
Join our subreddit where you can share stories and ask questions:
https://www.reddit.com/r/photographermindset/
Subscribe to TPM's Youtube page and watch full length episodes: https://www.youtube.com/thephotographermindset/
Make a donation via PayPal for any amount you feel is equal to the value you receive from our podcast episodes! Donations help with the fees related to hosting the show: https://paypal.me/podcasttpm?country.x=CA&locale.x=en_US
Thanks for listening!
Go get shooting, go get editing, and stay focused.
@sethmacey
@mantis_photography
@thephotographermindset
00:01:31.42
Seth Macey
So you hate photography.
00:01:31.64
Aaron
Shoot.
00:01:32.58
Seth Macey
That's what you're saying. Let's throw you under bus.
00:01:35.49
Aaron
Oh,
00:01:36.19
Seth Macey
That's the cold open for the episode.
00:01:37.83
Aaron
Yeah. hate it. I'm over it. ah No, I was laying in bed and I was thinking about careers. so And then thinking like when you specialize in something, say you're a orthopedic surgeon and your thing is repairing ACLs and it MCL tears in the knee.
00:01:56.40
Aaron
And I was just trying to imagine every day you're going into surgery and doing knee surgery, knee surgery, knee surgery. That's your specialty.
00:02:05.63
Seth Macey
Yeah. Yeah.
00:02:06.50
Aaron
Does it get Like that's so much work to get to that point, but still even that does that get, I'm sure for some people and maybe not for others, but like, Oh, this is another day shooting or surgery.
00:02:20.97
Seth Macey
yeah
00:02:23.19
Aaron
so Freudian slip there. ah Another surgery. So i was thinking about my career and I've been there a long time, 18 years. and of course i have moments of like the especially the bureaucracy and the politics behind education and that kind of thing but not to get into that but overall it's a pretty variant job depending on day to day um and then
00:02:36.83
Seth Macey
you
00:02:52.59
Aaron
I further went down the rabbit hole to photography. And as I've been getting a few more commercial gigs and things like that, where you are stuck to guidelines, you're stuck to deliverables, you're stuck to timelines.
00:03:06.48
Aaron
ah It can get, can get just a little, like I'm feeling a ah tad burnt out. Like I don't want to do the things that I love with photography because I'm just busy doing enough of the things that,
00:03:22.29
Aaron
do financially help me. And that's a great thing. And that's very cool. But at the same time, it kind of zaps the the passion from the other stuff.
00:03:34.74
Aaron
So I was imagining, who you know, so a lot of people have like the dream of quitting the nine to five and doing this all the time. And I was like, I don't know that mentally that would be the right thing.
00:03:50.68
Aaron
just decision for me and i was just going down this path um as like we're recording and then afterwards i have a lot of deliverables i have to like get going on before we go to alaska and it's forced in a sense uh and
00:03:53.26
Seth Macey
yeah
00:04:07.59
Seth Macey
Mm-hmm.
00:04:10.47
Aaron
people are asking like, Oh, the piping plovers are a hatch. Do you want to go shoot them? And I'm like, well, the one free day that I had to go do that, uh, either the weather comes in or, there's, there's something else, or i have this a timeline or deadline that I have to meet and, and, or do I want to spend an hour drive and then take photos and come back and like,
00:04:37.85
Aaron
I don't know. ah Maybe um what I'm describing is a ah bit of burnout and feeling like, ah like, I just want to put it, put it down. There's a lot.
00:04:47.74
Seth Macey
I don't even know if you're describing a burnout. I think you're describing ah you're describing the lack of space there once was.
00:05:00.48
Seth Macey
the the The thing that your old life made space for, which was to go out and shoot the piping plovers, has en enveloped has just like kind of engulfed itself to the point where the The free time for the passion project, the Plover.
00:05:20.90
Seth Macey
isn't as exciting because you have consumed so much photography on a daily basis. I think it's, it's, it's like anything. Um, and, and I realized there are some outliers where there's people who, I think these are very rare people who can get up every day and they're like, I'm shooting a wedding again today, an event today. And I am as psyched as I was on day one.
00:05:44.10
Seth Macey
I do think those people are rare. They exist, but,
00:05:47.12
Aaron
Mm-hmm.
00:05:49.29
Seth Macey
I think you can get to a point where the thing that was once exciting has become normalized no matter what you do. And this is an argument for one. It's not necessarily a bad thing that it becomes normalized. I mean, just if you do the same thing every day, it it becomes your normal life. it It's inevitable. Right.
00:06:14.40
Seth Macey
But I think what ends up happening one, one We've talked about it before the glorification of leaving your nine to five to become a photographer. It's a lot of grass is greener syndrome.
00:06:28.12
Aaron
Mm-hmm.
00:06:28.15
Seth Macey
I mean, it's a lot of fun and it's, it's, it's cool to say that you're making income on your own autonomously with your camera and being creative and using your creative mind to make yourself a living. That's incredible.
00:06:40.09
Seth Macey
But, The marketing, the being your own accountant, all that stuff, the scheduling, that doesn't get shown in that hype reel that you see 50 times a day of people who are like, i left my nine to five and I'm traveling in Iceland and stuff like that. Like you don't get all that.
00:06:56.47
Seth Macey
And that's not necessarily fun. The other thing too, I've come to realize is that no matter what I pick, like I've said, to go all in on, let's say I'm going, it's going to get to a point where it feels routine or normalized, like I've said. And in those moments now, what I've found, especially I'm talking about photography that has been helpful is accepting that moments that used to be exciting are now, now are more often mundane.
00:07:30.72
Seth Macey
or maybe not even mundane, but just expected or regular, and to really embrace the small moments of variety within those routine days where something interesting happened or there was that one photo that was really cool or different.
00:07:47.99
Seth Macey
Maybe in your job as a counselor, it's, oh, I had a breakthrough with that kid today, and this reminds me why I do this, despite how I feel like this has just become a regular part of life.
00:08:00.60
Aaron
Yeah, that makes makes a lot of sense. And you do have those do have those moments. It also makes me think of like if we return on investment in terms of time and moments and...
00:08:16.02
Seth Macey
Mm-hmm.
00:08:19.23
Aaron
think the difference is in I don't know, that excitement period. You can even tie in like how social media responded to photography versus how it does now. You can tie in a lot of different variables to the whole picture of excitement around it, especially being the the new phase.
00:08:38.74
Aaron
Kind of reminds me too, speaking of return on investment, is remember this very distinct moment in eighth grade. I played piano from the moment i could read that's when the teacher said we could start with my parents um to eighth grade that was about from six to 14. i think i ended up quitting in ninth grade beginning of ninth grade so about eight years nine years of piano and i got to a very
00:09:12.95
Aaron
good point, especially for a 14 year old where I was like, was playing classical pieces. i was doing these concerts. I was playing Chopin, uh, not to toot my own horn, but I was a 14 year old. It wasn't anything like amazing or special, like crazy special, but I got to a really cool part or point.
00:09:31.33
Aaron
And the teacher said, Hey, you're, you're great, but you're like, you're topping out. you you're practicing an hour a day, which I was like, it was mandatory.
00:09:42.43
Aaron
It's practicing an hour a day piano. She's like, I really need you to start to practice two hours a day if we want to improve. And I was like, I'm all set. I'm, I'm, I'm good with where I'm at and
00:09:53.66
Seth Macey
Yeah, don't need that.
00:09:57.70
Seth Macey
Yeah. We talked about this last week.
00:09:59.95
Aaron
yeah And I don't need to go, i don't need to spend two hours and take away from everything else in life to like get that extra, that last, however many percentage points ah I'm good here.
00:10:12.66
Seth Macey
Yeah.
00:10:14.86
Aaron
And I think there's a little bit of, like the striving to get to a, a really admirable point. And I think if I were out of my own body and like looking at my body of work in terms of like what I've accomplished, I'd be like, Oh, that's, he did a good job.
00:10:36.70
Aaron
He did a good job. He's not the, uh, yeah, golf club.
00:10:37.64
Seth Macey
solf
00:10:41.18
Aaron
Uh, But yeah, decent, decent. Knows his way around a contract and get some corporate gigs, can get paid for some stuff.
00:10:44.74
Seth Macey
right
00:10:50.15
Aaron
Cool. Is he the four leading a photographer in the East Coast for product photography? No, probably no one knows his name. And that's okay.
00:11:01.09
Aaron
To strive to be that or to like take it up a notch is Like you said, the accounting, the marketing, the time put in, the emails, the reach out, the all that.
00:11:12.06
Aaron
Like that's where I'm like, all right.
00:11:16.06
Seth Macey
Yeah, mean, eventually, I guess you could hire those people, but when you're starting, know we have a lot of beginners.
00:11:16.13
Aaron
i'm
00:11:19.19
Aaron
Yeah, I'm i'm like, it's it's ah it's at a good place. um
00:11:23.65
Seth Macey
Yeah.
00:11:24.92
Aaron
So that that's also just part of it where it's like, all right, that was fun.
00:11:30.13
Seth Macey
Yeah.
00:11:32.59
Aaron
ah now um'm Now I want to get back to like enjoying it
00:11:36.17
Seth Macey
Yeah, good for you. Good for you. And I think there's a lot of, you got to reach your full potential, which
00:11:47.89
Seth Macey
is very kind and encouraging, kind of encouraging words to hear. is it realistic for everybody to reach their full potential in everything they do? Absolutely not.
00:12:01.14
Aaron
No, you can pick one. And if you're lucky enough, I use lucky with quotes. I guess I have to now because we're on video. We used to just be able to say that. If you're lucky enough to be obsessed with one thing and put in your all to reach your potential, then maybe, maybe you can.
00:12:22.73
Aaron
But I don't think you can spread it. You can't spread it and reach your potential in multiple things.
00:12:27.81
Seth Macey
Well, so where I'm going with this is maybe maybe reaching my full potential, looking at it in the way of that meaning that I need to max out skill-wise on all these things I'm interested is the wrong way to look at what reaching my potential is.
00:12:46.16
Aaron
Yeah. Maybe it's more holistic, right?
00:12:46.93
Seth Macey
Maybe reaching yeah Maybe reaching your full potential is having a body of life experiences that you feel proud of.
00:12:49.08
Aaron
Like you.
00:12:56.27
Seth Macey
That's full potential. Maybe your full potential is...
00:13:05.64
Seth Macey
having consistent forward momentum if you're somebody who used to lie around all day. you know I think we need to start looking at what is full potential and in a different way rather than thinking it's maxing out on skill or maxing out on income because it's and it's it's not feasible to, like I said, master every single thing.
00:13:34.36
Seth Macey
And if if that's your metric, then nobody reaches their full potential. And if you want to keep that as your metric or your definition, then you probably won't ever reach your full potential.
00:13:44.99
Seth Macey
Because you do have the ability, in in your piano example, you do have the, or you had the ability to keep going and never stop.
00:13:53.69
Aaron
Ever. Ever. ever never
00:13:58.60
Seth Macey
But that's not necessarily the life you want to live. Now, does that mean you're incapable of reaching your full potential? No, it depends on how you define it.
00:14:07.42
Aaron
Right. If again, zooming out, if someone said, Hey, this person reached their full potential at, at piano, that's, that's all they do. That's their identity. That's, that's what they do. can't They can't throw a baseball for the life of them.
00:14:24.30
Aaron
They can't, they have no idea how to go fishing. They have no idea how to use a camera. They have no idea how to swing a golf club. They have no idea how to hike or, even communicate or emotionally connect with someone.
00:14:38.67
Aaron
They are really great at piano. That's their, that's their thing. They reach their full potential. You could argue, well, I feel like there, there's a lot of holes there.
00:14:50.64
Seth Macey
In life, experience potentially, or maybe their life is entirely fulfilled. That's why I think having this one definition of what is full potential is completely and utterly ridiculous.
00:14:59.26
Aaron
Yeah.
00:14:59.95
Seth Macey
So when I hear that, you know, I used to hear that phrase and be like, oh, that's exciting.
00:15:00.23
Aaron
Yeah.
00:15:03.51
Seth Macey
Let's reach our full potential. Now I think it's just plain silly.
00:15:08.44
Aaron
Yeah. And I think too, with, uh, with a lot of things that you, you touched upon this, there's a shiny cover to it, right? Like, let me, I like cabin photography. I find it challenging. I find it interesting.
00:15:24.85
Aaron
Do I, um on the surface, like i I like it. I like that vision. We had Ethan Bits on, like he made a we had dirt and glass on. They made careers out of doing this week after week after week after week, moving, going here, foot photographing, videoing.
00:15:34.03
Seth Macey
I hear it.
00:15:42.10
Aaron
Like that's that's one thing, like the the the visual of it, like, oh, you're getting all these cabins. But there's a, there's the underneath side of that where it's like, pack up the car.
00:15:54.68
Seth Macey
ah you
00:15:57.86
Aaron
What are you doing with the dog for the weekend? the What's the timeframe? How much travel is this? Are you going to get any sleep? Like any of like all of that stuff week after week, after week, after week paints a different picture than the surface photographs on Instagram.
00:16:16.41
Aaron
Same with wildlife photography. Like you, there's certain photographers out there and we know them that were like, damn, like they go out every day.
00:16:27.05
Aaron
Like they go, they do this every single day. They're in the woods with the bugs and the mosquitoes and the ticks and the heat and no, and like they're doing this to the furthest extent.
00:16:34.74
Seth Macey
No showers.
00:16:41.30
Aaron
And if I'm being honest, I'm like, I don't know if I want to do that that bad. Like I love wildlife. I love wildlife photography.
00:16:49.82
Seth Macey
Yeah.
00:16:50.47
Aaron
I don't know if I need to be just an outdoorsman all of the time.
00:16:57.82
Seth Macey
The funny thing too is if your answer is I'm not sure, it's no.
00:17:01.24
Aaron
Yeah. Yeah.
00:17:02.66
Seth Macey
That's something I heard. i think it was on the Chris Williams podcast. I forget who it is. And that stuck with me the last month or two. Guy said, if you're thinking of a decision, trying to weigh a decision and you're unsure, the answer is no
00:17:16.45
Aaron
Yeah, I've heard that a lot. and I always struggled with that because I'm such a analytical thinker.
00:17:22.61
Seth Macey
But that gets into essentialism, right?
00:17:22.77
Aaron
like oh Yeah, I think that's for for extra stuff, right?
00:17:25.16
Seth Macey
If I'm not absolutely wanting to do this, it's a no. And that creates space for the priorities in your life that are absolute yeses. 9's and 10. and
00:17:34.57
Aaron
Like you can't do that for i want to wake up early and walk my dog three miles like no, but I could.
00:17:41.63
Seth Macey
I mean, you could go back to that thing I said last week. There's things you have to do. There's things you want to do and there's things you should do.
00:17:46.03
Aaron
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
00:17:48.37
Seth Macey
Getting up and and walking your dog for three miles is maybe a have to if you have a husky like yours, Cap. I mean, it's it's responsible pet ownership at that point.
00:17:53.69
Aaron
Yeah.
00:17:56.50
Seth Macey
You also want to spend time with your animal and get exercise. you know when you get into trouble, is you if you have a bucket of things in your life, you feel like, I should do this, I should do that, I should do this?
00:18:00.63
Aaron
Yeah.
00:18:06.59
Seth Macey
It's how can we get to a place where we maybe slowly eliminate those? so Because I feel like slowly eliminating those may lead to a change in attitude and perhaps a more well-rounded and happy life. I mean,
00:18:20.28
Seth Macey
You can make the argument like, oh, you should send a ah card to your grandmother on her birthday, right? Even though you don't necessarily want to.
00:18:25.63
Aaron
Yeah.
00:18:27.72
Seth Macey
My argument is, okay, well, how can we change mindset and attitude to a place where we want to send grandma a card, right? Right.
00:18:35.58
Aaron
yeah
00:18:36.57
Seth Macey
And if you just run through that exercise and imagine what it takes to get from the category of I should send that card to I want to send to that send that card, what's required as in terms of mindset shift, attitude shift, character shift, in your opinion, to get there? I'm asking you.
00:18:57.89
Aaron
Well, probably, probably gratitude and probably,
00:19:01.91
Seth Macey
Yes, I have a grandmother that loves me and and I love her.
00:19:04.78
Aaron
Yeah.
00:19:05.48
Seth Macey
And you so you can start to realize all these things that you wouldn't otherwise have if you just leave it in the should box. I should do this. I should do this because that's autopilot, right?
00:19:15.15
Aaron
Yeah.
00:19:15.99
Seth Macey
that's That's I'm not living life my way. um you know, I have a list of tasks my life is just a list of tasks. Essentially, if your should bucket is massive. So, you know, have to and want to. I've started to try and categorize my life that way. What do I want to do? What do I have to do? How can I eliminate the shoulds?
00:19:34.08
Seth Macey
And that naturally has allowed me to start feeling like I can really place focus on eights, nines, and tens on the priority scale in my life and be totally cool saying, nah, not doing that.
00:19:44.82
Seth Macey
Not going to that party. Don't want to. Don't want to do that.
00:19:47.08
Aaron
Yeah.
00:19:48.73
Seth Macey
And it's it's nice because then you start to get to a place where less is more.
00:19:56.80
Aaron
Yeah. Yeah. And I think, and that's, that's what I was thinking of is like keeping it enjoyable by not
00:20:07.88
Seth Macey
Photography. Okay.
00:20:08.51
Aaron
Yeah. I'm good to get back to it.
00:20:09.27
Seth Macey
Okay.
00:20:10.34
Aaron
Keeping it enjoyable by not overextending in getting to a place where you're like, uh, I don't really want to do that thing, but now I'm doing it.
00:20:20.81
Aaron
Now it's booked up. However, X many hours of editing and looking at photography stuff and file transfer and organization and, and all these things where then you have this opportunity to do something you really enjoy. Like I, I,
00:20:35.97
Aaron
and Mike Nutrino is going to make fun of me, but I really enjoy seeing those plovers being born and waddling around. Like, that's it He just, yeah, he thinks plovers are lame, along with snowy owls.
00:20:45.20
Seth Macey
Why is Mike going make fun you? Does he think they're lame? This is the same guy who thinks shooting snowy owls is lame.
00:20:52.04
Aaron
am ah Everything's lame.
00:20:52.67
Seth Macey
He's too cool for snowy owls. Yeah.
00:20:54.57
Aaron
It's too cool for school. ah But leaving the room to feel like, oh, like, I i want to go do that thing. Even though it's not...
00:21:05.86
Seth Macey
yeah
00:21:05.99
Aaron
It's not paid. It's not, it's not financially good for me in a sense. Uh, but those are the things that are enjoyable and wanting to be able to pick up the camera. What's I gotta say, what's been nice is having, having our yearly trips has been a nice sort of bookmark for that,
00:21:30.16
Aaron
that
00:21:30.23
Seth Macey
I think it brings you back to your roots. Like this is why I started. i think it's important we do, we have exercises like that.
00:21:37.21
Aaron
Yeah.
00:21:37.76
Seth Macey
we We place those in our calendar if we're, if we're living busy lives to get back to a place. So this is, this, this is bringing me back to my roots of why I fell in love with this thing in the beginning.
00:21:47.63
Aaron
Yeah. And you have to be away from home. You have to be away from the corporate stuff that you might be doing. In in my case, the the product shoots, the whatever. Like I'm on vacation. So now my my job for seven days is to sleep, eat, and drive around and see nature, photography, be with people. Like it's, that's it.
00:22:12.09
Seth Macey
Yeah, and those are the things you want to do.
00:22:12.16
Aaron
That's it.
00:22:13.98
Seth Macey
And in that instance, the things you have to do are make sure that the people who have paid for it are having an amazing time. It's like there's no should there.
00:22:19.76
Aaron
Yes.
00:22:22.94
Aaron
Yep. Yeah.
00:22:23.75
Seth Macey
There's no I should in that experience. And that's why I feel like it's perhaps extremely fulfilling.
00:22:30.04
Aaron
Yeah. Sometimes I'm like, I should start cleaning these dishes on those trips, but I don't want to.
00:22:31.60
Seth Macey
Right.
00:22:37.30
Aaron
So Seth said I should say no.
00:22:40.27
Seth Macey
Yeah, fortunately we don't we know cook in the lodging anymore, we go out. But I was gonna say, this is a great experience.
00:22:46.35
Aaron
Yeah, we used to.
00:22:49.86
Seth Macey
This is what you've described, you've described reaching your threshold, which is excellent, because now you know how far you wanna go and what you don't wanna go beyond in terms of effort.
00:22:52.74
Aaron
No. Mm-hmm.
00:22:59.91
Seth Macey
And that doesn't make you lazy, that doesn't make you, like I said, not ah willing to reach full potential in a different definition.
00:23:01.99
Aaron
no
00:23:08.45
Seth Macey
It makes you self-aware. It makes you, this is what I'm sad. This is a skill level or this is an income level with my camera that I'm satisfied being at. I have another career that I can round out those bills I have to pay.
00:23:24.54
Aaron
Mm-hmm.
00:23:26.14
Seth Macey
And and i can allow now I can allow for space to do the photo projects that enjoy regardless of whether they make me money or not.
00:23:37.56
Seth Macey
I think what out often ends up happening and where you do get people who throw the camera off a balcony and they're done with the whole thing is they go beyond the threshold that you've just that you've described. They don't identify it. They don't name it. They don't say, hey, like I'm feeling like I'm at my limit with in terms of this losing its level of fun.
00:23:58.58
Aaron
Yeah.
00:23:59.94
Seth Macey
They go beyond that because they feel like it's something they should do, should as a professional, right?
00:24:06.47
Aaron
Yeah.
00:24:07.66
Seth Macey
And it becomes too much and you fall out of love with the thing and that's really sad.
00:24:13.82
Aaron
I, and you touched upon this with the grandmother analogy and it's, should I send her a birthday card? I don't, let's start with the, the ah gut reaction. I don't feel like going to get like, I don't feel like doing this in place of what, like watching TV, hanging out, uh, eating snacks, uh, going for a walk, like in place of what, and then ah think working on mindset, like how do you get to a point where you want to, uh, where I'm going with this is like with my career, I think it's easy for people to be
00:24:53.14
Aaron
get annoyed, get over things that have become normalized. And look, so I've been in my career for 18 years.
00:25:01.69
Seth Macey
What do mean? Right.
00:25:04.92
Aaron
it It'd be really easy for me to wake up and find the negatives every morning and go like, I don't want to go to work. This sucks. I don't like these people, certain people. I don't want to deal with these parents, like whatever, whatever negatives there are.
00:25:20.51
Seth Macey
right
00:25:21.01
Aaron
I could find them every single morning before I step into it. That by proxy is going to make the idea of leaving that career to do photography, the shiny new thing, much better.
00:25:32.67
Seth Macey
Right.
00:25:34.22
Aaron
But if I could change my mindset about the thing that's kind of annoying me and make it more shiny,
00:25:34.32
Seth Macey
right
00:25:45.49
Aaron
it makes, I feel like things more enjoyable and more realistic where it's like, okay, uh, I love my career. It's very stable. It's very solid. I get a ah reoccurring paycheck. I, I get time off. I influence kids and and have a good influence on them. Hopefully.
00:26:04.62
Aaron
Uh, like there's a lot of good things about this.
00:26:07.37
Seth Macey
right i can consistently support my family and son yeah
00:26:07.84
Aaron
It's a admirable. yeah every all that stuff so if i wake up and think that there's not a as much of a push or pressure or need to find something better or something think humans are searchers at maybe at heart or some people more than others are like you really want to find like the next thing
00:26:27.05
Seth Macey
explorers for sure we've been exploring forever
00:26:33.16
Aaron
and if you can convince yourself or change your mindset that the things that you have with like gratitude and whatnot, the, the shiny things you can see clearer for what they are.
00:26:47.98
Aaron
And meaning that like, no, I'm happy with my career. I'm not going to make a push to do photography full time. Cause I got a taste of it and i have a more realistic vision of what that is full time.
00:27:02.04
Aaron
And I don't know if that's any better than what I'm doing right now.
00:27:07.48
Seth Macey
Right. So, so
00:27:12.08
Seth Macey
You had brought up the send your grandmother a card analogy before you went into that. Were you just segwaying into that or did you have more to say on how to get to that place?
00:27:21.16
Aaron
Well, changing, getting your mindset around things. And again, it's easier. often talk, it reminds me of like relationships. It's really to, it's really easy to look at the 10% you're missing in your partner and focus on that where 90% is great and you've spent time with them and that's why you like them.
00:27:44.83
Aaron
But there's 10% that really annoys you and you,
00:27:47.27
Seth Macey
Oh, Haley's listening. So I got to tell her that it's 0%. zero percent
00:27:53.02
Aaron
12 and a half percent. You've done the math.
00:27:55.11
Seth Macey
She's smiling in the car listening on her way to work.
00:27:58.80
Aaron
ah Yeah, not for you guys. You guys are 100%. But the... but ah in
00:28:03.84
Seth Macey
I might, she might have 10% of B, but I don't know.
00:28:05.86
Aaron
At least, Haley, at least.
00:28:07.17
Seth Macey
At least. No.
00:28:09.53
Aaron
ah But you some people can get stuck on not focusing on the 90%, but focusing on the 10%.
00:28:16.17
Seth Macey
Right.
00:28:17.48
Aaron
And then start looking elsewhere to fill in that 10%, but forgetting about the 90%, that's wonderful.
00:28:22.78
Seth Macey
Right.
00:28:23.36
Aaron
So I think the grandmother analogy is like, I'm complaining about showing someone that's shown me so much good in my life, ah getting a card for their birthday. Like they just turned 90.
00:28:37.71
Aaron
like That's a pretty good accomplishment. And I'm being a baby about it. Like, I need to, I need to reassess, not get mad at yourself, not beat yourself up over it, not feel guilty about it.
00:28:49.58
Aaron
You're allowed to have feelings, but kind of reassess and just say like, well, let's, let's reevaluate this. Let's do the math again.
00:28:55.23
Seth Macey
Yeah, like
00:28:56.39
Aaron
Let's second check this math and then get to a place where it's like, okay, uh, I'm totally good going to get a birthday card.
00:29:03.83
Seth Macey
yeah I'm excited.
00:29:03.93
Aaron
I just, yeah.
00:29:04.35
Seth Macey
I want to do this now.
00:29:05.26
Aaron
Yeah.
00:29:05.27
Seth Macey
If you, if you routinely, if you catch yourself in daily life saying, I should do this thing and you work through, you go, Oh, okay. Here's the thing that I just realized I should do. And you work through, okay, now I want to get to how to want to do this.
00:29:21.84
Seth Macey
or and or even to a place where i I have to do this as a second choice.
00:29:25.94
Aaron
Yeah.
00:29:27.92
Seth Macey
If you do that so many times, you're immersing yourself in the process of building certain characteristics and attitude that's required to to be able to do that. And those are good things.
00:29:40.81
Seth Macey
Gratitude. I'm so thankful. Like you said, ive have great memories of my grandmother and she loves me and I love her. There's a lot of people who don't have, yeah I've never met my grandparents.
00:29:52.05
Seth Macey
I didn't, know I didn't, you're talking to someone right now who never met their grandparents. I've never had that experience.
00:29:56.05
Aaron
Oh, really? Huh.
00:29:57.90
Seth Macey
No. They died before I was born. Actually, one died when I was two and their other three died before I was born. It's like, I would love to be able to send a card to grandmother.
00:30:08.44
Aaron
Yeah. Yeah.
00:30:10.82
Seth Macey
You know, I've never had that experience. So there's people like that. I'm not saying, you know, cry for me. I'm just saying like, there's people out there who aren't and never have or never will have the experiences that you have.
00:30:23.57
Aaron
Mm-hmm.
00:30:23.99
Seth Macey
So you can, you can sort of develop some gratitude in that you can, All I'm trying to say is when you go from should to to to want, you're forced to develop positive mindset.
00:30:39.85
Seth Macey
And if you do it enough times, it becomes immersion and it can be become a part of your daily life and how you operate.
00:30:40.00
Aaron
yeah
00:30:45.98
Seth Macey
And I think when you operate that way, you'll find much more joy naturally is how I'm trying to say this.
00:30:52.82
Aaron
like it this is like this is therapy because this is what happens now i've come to through talk i've come to some conclusions or thoughts that i wasn't thinking so the have should or want I guess if I could sum it up is I don't, I don't want the, and don't want the photography thing to be, i have to go do this.
00:31:22.95
Aaron
I'd rather keep at the, I want to.
00:31:27.21
Seth Macey
Okay, so what's required to do that based on where you are at right now as point A? What's required to get to point B?
00:31:33.90
Aaron
and I'll say a caveat. Sometimes I feel like sometimes I should, um, for me is okay. Like I should do this because sometimes there's fear that doesn't want me to do something that's extra or beyond or taking video in a way that I've never done. We talked about the two camera videos, never done it.
00:31:53.11
Aaron
Uh, could have easily backed out of that and been like, find someone else to do that. But there's a should there sometimes that pushes you and maybe it's
00:31:59.84
Seth Macey
I would argue with you. I would say deep down there is maybe a want to learn and to do something
00:32:03.33
Aaron
Yeah. A should and want that are married.
00:32:08.15
Seth Macey
Okay, well then that's, I feel like you're you're halfway there.
00:32:11.10
Aaron
Yeah. Yeah. i agree. um But I know.
00:32:13.89
Seth Macey
I mean, I don't want this to be dogma that you should kill all the shoulds in your life, but I think the exercise is useful.
00:32:15.84
Aaron
No, no.
00:32:19.53
Aaron
Yeah, I do too. ah So what's that look like? You said, ah i think it's giving it space, giving it space, not, not being the hundred percent of life, not giving, not becoming just that reach your potential in this reaching my potential in photography would mean quitting my job.
00:32:39.65
Seth Macey
Absolutely, it would. if If your metric is revenue or number of clients or...
00:32:41.05
Aaron
It would.
00:32:47.01
Aaron
Well, it would, it would also have to be if like, that's my life. It would have to be unless I'm a trust fund baby, which I'm not, uh,
00:32:55.27
Seth Macey
yeah I mean, you could quit your job and just shoot wildlife all day and make less. Yeah.
00:33:03.80
Aaron
close to zero, I would think close to zero. Uh,
00:33:08.95
Seth Macey
Not true. You just run a ton of trips.
00:33:11.97
Aaron
yeah.
00:33:12.50
Seth Macey
You guide, you could go get your guiding license.
00:33:15.07
Aaron
Yeah, perhaps.
00:33:15.78
Seth Macey
Wilderness first aid. Like there's a way.
00:33:18.23
Aaron
Yeah, there's a way. There is a way. ah But yeah, keeping it into a want thing. I got an email last night um from my website, which is rare, ah but someone asking about cabin photography.
00:33:31.49
Aaron
And my initial response, I think a couple years ago would be like, oh, they're reaching out, like, let's make this work.
00:33:39.36
Seth Macey
Yeah, let's do it.
00:33:40.59
Aaron
It's interesting, the difference in just sort of response uh yeah like how far is your cabin let let me see it uh what kind of money are we talking about like is this going to be worth it like i'm i'm not in the business of doing huge favors anymore occasionally i will uh but yeah that kind of thing like this is my summer time this is time where i want to do a bunch of things like
00:33:45.96
Seth Macey
Do I want to do this?
00:33:50.34
Seth Macey
Yeah. Good for you.
00:34:10.78
Aaron
it has to be it has to be ah i want to uh for this versus oh i need i need to do this i need every opportunity to do this and and build my portfolio and prove that i can be out there and all that stuff
00:34:14.90
Seth Macey
Yeah.
00:34:23.06
Seth Macey
Yeah. So if you're a beginner two years ago, right now you're saying, i don't i'm I'm assessing if I want to do this based on where I'm at in life and my current needs.
00:34:34.57
Seth Macey
Two years ago, you was...
00:34:40.00
Seth Macey
perhaps I have to take this or I would like to take this because it will be a portfolio expander.
00:34:50.85
Aaron
Yeah.
00:34:51.31
Seth Macey
Now you've kind of, you've built the portfolio. So I guess like my point being here is based on where you are, I think in your photography journey is going to dictate where an email like that, which bucket it lands in the have should or want.
00:35:09.56
Seth Macey
Because if you're just starting out, you're excited. You probably want to do it. You probably realize ah that maybe there's a little bit I should do this because but or like I have to do this if I want to build a portfoo I mean, you don't, of course, there's, you don't have to say yes to anything, review terms and get paid fairly, et etc.
00:35:31.19
Aaron
Right, right, right.
00:35:34.29
Seth Macey
But it's just a different mindset. I feel like at that point, when you're building something, and when there's that huge excitement, that huge honeymoon phase. And yeah, go ahead.
00:35:43.12
Aaron
Yeah. and Go ahead. Okay. Jinx. ah And I've been there and I've seen it countless times is there's this proving period, I feel like on social media.
00:35:55.94
Seth Macey
to yourself.
00:35:56.85
Aaron
Yeah. Social media is the window that I can look into to other people and their lives and whatnot. I've seen again, myself included, doing this thing where you go all out.
00:36:08.40
Aaron
Like you are going all out for a good year or two with getting out the getting photos out there, getting your work out there, getting your developing your niche, whatever that may be, trying cabin stuff, trying portrait stuff. trying ah You're putting it all out there. You're constantly working to get to a point where I think one of two things happen or maybe both.
00:36:34.22
Aaron
You kind of can't maintain, we've talked about that rocket booster.
00:36:36.35
Seth Macey
You can't.
00:36:37.36
Aaron
You can't maintain that level of posting.
00:36:38.88
Seth Macey
Not on your own anyways.
00:36:40.96
Aaron
And I've seen people go like may three years at that rate. And I'm like, geez, like they are, they are pushing it.
00:36:48.89
Seth Macey
Yeah, cooking.
00:36:49.32
Aaron
ah They're cooking. And like, when's this going to stop? Cause it can't go forever. And then it becomes like ah it becomes interesting. Like you want to bet on it. Like, when's this going to slow down? Uh, but I've seen it, I've seen it many times and I've seen it with myself where you're putting out just tons and tons and tons of little metric provers, little spots of like, I'm, I'm trying to prove myself in this industry or in multiple industries, or just as a quote unquote photographer or videographer,
00:37:20.67
Aaron
that gets respect, that gets accolades, that gets people commenting, whatever it is. At some point, you get enough gigs or recognition or what have you that you go, um okay, i can I can take off the gas for a minute.
00:37:36.67
Seth Macey
Mm-hmm.
00:37:37.56
Aaron
I can just sort of now... do some of the things I want to do. I can, I can slow down a tad. I don't need the proof.
00:37:49.47
Aaron
I don't need, i developed it for a couple years. I'm good with that sort of push. I'm, I'm content with where I'm at. i I don't need to push right now and keep pushing, pushing, pushing, pushing. Yeah.
00:38:02.88
Seth Macey
Perhaps that's a great method. Go hard as hell for a year straight. I think you've suggested this yeah with the rocket booster.
00:38:08.83
Aaron
Yeah.
00:38:11.47
Seth Macey
Take that momentum, that energy, that excitement and go hard for a year.
00:38:11.62
Aaron
Yeah. Yeah. Mm
00:38:15.45
Seth Macey
but three Put three years of moderate effort into one year of insane effort. See how far you get. And then you can maybe do some assessment, get the lay of the land. What do I want to do now? What don't I want to do?
00:38:27.02
Seth Macey
and just kind of, I'm not saying cruise, but be more selective, realize that you earned your spot with a lot of hard work and potentially that's a way to condense the the long game is just going insanely hard for a short period of time.
00:38:27.17
Aaron
yeah
00:38:36.58
Aaron
yeah
00:38:45.32
Seth Macey
Because you're right, that pace that's required for that method is not sustainable on your own.
00:38:45.66
Aaron
yeah
00:38:50.63
Seth Macey
you need a team at some point, which maybe you're still too, after a year, it's still not the right time or you don't have the budget for the, for a team to be doing your socials or your marketing or your sales or whatever.
00:39:01.88
Seth Macey
But I like that idea of go hard for, uh, for, uh, for a year and then let off. I mean, it's like, i was doing that with my half marathons and marathons where I would All right, we got an insane training block with insane mileage. Let's run the race, and then I'm just going to do nothing for a month or two.
00:39:24.13
Aaron
Yeah.
00:39:26.49
Seth Macey
You know, I'm going to lose fitness, but I'll get it back.
00:39:27.04
Aaron
Yeah, I think that's good.
00:39:30.65
Aaron
Yeah, and yeah it's, ah ah again, that rocket booster, that new interest, that new that new love can really carry you very far, I've found. And I don't know if it's like that for everyone. I think some people burn out quicker or find difficulty in it in the beginning and and maybe not get past that first hump. But ah it's ah it is powerful if you're obsessed with something and can push you to make those four weekend trips in a row ah without being home.
00:40:00.40
Seth Macey
You a good why. You have to.
00:40:02.12
Aaron
Yeah. Yeah.
00:40:03.55
Seth Macey
I know it's so cliche now in today's world. Find your why. Find your why. But I mean, if you don't if you don't have a clear definition of why you're doing something, when it gets difficult to do and the object is less shiny, you won't do it.
00:40:17.63
Aaron
yeah
00:40:18.58
Seth Macey
You won't.
00:40:20.62
Aaron
know
00:40:21.81
Seth Macey
I mean, that why is there for when times are difficult or when there's something that has to be done to reach a certain goal that you don't want to do. i mean, like who wants to do a long run for three hours in the snow?
00:40:30.22
Aaron
Yep.
00:40:33.01
Seth Macey
I don't.
00:40:34.74
Aaron
I don't.
00:40:35.42
Seth Macey
But the mileage is required. It's the cost of doing business, right? For the outcome that you're chasing for a certain why. For me, in that instance, the why i was, I want to see if I'm capable of this because I'm not sure I am.
00:40:51.46
Aaron
Yeah.
00:40:54.35
Aaron
Yeah.
00:40:55.63
Seth Macey
I mean, that's a why, i feel.
00:40:56.89
Aaron
Yeah, it is.
00:40:57.70
Seth Macey
That's a consistent why that I have.
00:41:00.14
Aaron
Yeah. Yeah.
00:41:01.69
Seth Macey
Can I do this? I don't know. I would like to find out. And I would like the answer to be yes.
00:41:08.50
Aaron
yeah
00:41:09.59
Seth Macey
Right? So what's required to in this instance, what's required for me to be able to say, yes, I've done this. I can do this thing. It's like, well, it's completing it. Okay. What do I need to do to complete it? Well, you have to do this three hour run in the snow.
00:41:22.90
Seth Macey
If, because it's an integral part of the ah journey.
00:41:23.09
Aaron
yeah
00:41:28.16
Seth Macey
So that backwards process without the starting point of the why there's, there's no, you're lost in a snowstorm. You don't know where to go. Right. And it's, I'll just, all we just won't do it today.
00:41:41.72
Seth Macey
Today becomes tomorrow, becomes tomorrow, becomes tomorrow.
00:41:41.83
Aaron
Yeah.
00:41:44.39
Seth Macey
And because you didn't have a why you didn't do the thing.
00:41:48.34
Aaron
have an interesting, I'm curious your thoughts on this. It has to do with sports.
00:41:50.89
Seth Macey
Cool.
00:41:51.74
Aaron
It has nothing to do with photography. Nowadays, here's the theory I have, and this is off topic, but I think it's interesting and kind of goes along with this rocket booster conversation.
00:42:04.42
Aaron
Nowadays, AAU and premier teams, and starts so early, like, am I,
00:42:09.09
Seth Macey
Explain this for people like me who don't know. I have a rough estimate because they talk. AAU is It's like a rep.
00:42:14.15
Aaron
It's just private teams. So when I grew up back in the day, there used to be rec league that you paid for. Anyone could play.
00:42:21.51
Seth Macey
Like House League. We call it House League.
00:42:22.80
Aaron
Yep.
00:42:23.42
Seth Macey
Yeah.
00:42:23.56
Aaron
Yep. So rec league, anyone could play. And from that, you'd have like one travel team. So they picked the best.
00:42:28.52
Seth Macey
Or a rep team. They call it a rep team.
00:42:30.13
Aaron
Sure.
00:42:31.03
Seth Macey
Yeah.
00:42:31.25
Aaron
Travel team. So meaning the best couple of players, let's call it basketball, the best 12 players or so now are on this other team that would go to different towns and represent your town to play the other teams, other towns, best team.
00:42:43.69
Seth Macey
That's
00:42:46.84
Seth Macey
yeah
00:42:48.22
Aaron
It's like the, the one thing that there is sports started late. I, I played sports in high school. Um, I am thinking like, I didn't really start any sort of formal sports until I was about 10 or probably about 10, nine or 10.
00:43:02.44
Seth Macey
that's late
00:43:03.70
Aaron
Uh,
00:43:06.58
Aaron
And I'm um thinking about this rocket booster thing. So I saw this in my own son when he was introduced to soccer the first two years. Absolutely obsessed.
00:43:17.45
Seth Macey
Mm-hmm.
00:43:17.54
Aaron
Soccer ball in the living room, foot skills around the tables, ah just wouldn't leave his foot.
00:43:17.59
Seth Macey
Mm-hmm.
00:43:25.29
Aaron
It's been two years. He's getting to a point where he's slowly getting a little burnt out by it. Now, my question is, or my thought is, there's an ideal time to light the rocket booster.
00:43:40.09
Aaron
And I don't think it's when you're not prepared. And I'm to tie this back to photography. Not prepared, and it might take a little bit of luck as well. But to have the rocket booster in an eight-year-old body is cool but by time you are getting into like man size 14 years old you're maybe burnt out at that point now would it be better to ignite that rocket booster
00:43:55.67
Seth Macey
Thank
00:44:10.43
Aaron
When you have general athletic skills, you have strength, you have speed. Now you're 13 years old and you're obsessed with the game of soccer and you're practicing four or five hours a day against the eight-year-olds that burnt out their rocket rocket from eight to 10. And now they're lazy and and and just kind of done with the game. They're kind of just in that sort of plateau period.
00:44:35.95
Aaron
So there's a timing to that rocket booster. If you can look at your life, I think for me, that rocket booster came right when COVID happened and we were stuck at home and we had to be outside and we had to go do things like that.
00:44:51.43
Aaron
That was a great combination of luck not that that was a lucky event. Just the timing of the repercussions of all that ah gave me a really nice runway work
00:45:06.33
Aaron
take that rocket booster full speed ahead.
00:45:10.41
Seth Macey
As in, you as so in your example with soccer, as opposed to in your instance, when
00:45:17.04
Aaron
i'm I'm working full time. I have a 12-hour shift. I'm already burnt out and I'm trying to push photography as well. There's just not enough runway for it.
00:45:28.05
Seth Macey
see So you're saying.
00:45:29.57
Aaron
Or financially, maybe you can't afford the things that you need to afford. Or maybe you're not in a good position. Maybe you have two young newborns you know or young age kids.
00:45:40.33
Aaron
Maybe it's not the perfect time to light that rocket booster. I'm just curious if of timing...
00:45:44.23
Seth Macey
do you get to choose? do you get to choose when that inspiration hits or that energy hits? Are you of the mind that that's a choice or does it happen? Just here we go. I'm excited about this thing and lift off.
00:45:56.18
Aaron
I picture that, you know, when the before the rocket takes off, there's like the the sparks and the fizzle under the under the rocket booster. don't
00:46:06.36
Seth Macey
Yeah, unless you're the most recent SpaceX one when you just explode on the launch pad.
00:46:09.48
Aaron
know.
00:46:12.03
Aaron
not good not good uh and then they do the countdown and then it's so i feel like for me photography i was always interested in like digital cameras i had i had one of the first digital cameras that you put a floppy disk into it was huge a huge square uh maybe i i think it was kilobytes literally oh yeah probably but the file size was like kilobytes
00:46:17.76
Seth Macey
Yeah.
00:46:28.48
Seth Macey
Nice. one megapixel if that no i mean the megapixels of the camera
00:46:41.36
Seth Macey
nice not what you send me now where you send me 40 megabyte files that were shot at 60 and i can't use them for the website and then i have to resize them and you add work to me and then i invoice you and
00:46:41.98
Aaron
ah
00:46:44.59
Aaron
yeah Sony. Thank you, Sony.
00:46:50.52
Aaron
Yeah.
00:46:54.47
Aaron
Well, now on my Lightroom, it's 20 max, so it should be good.
00:46:58.91
Seth Macey
You know what you can start doing?
00:46:59.28
Aaron
and
00:46:59.95
Seth Macey
Sorry to derail us here. If you are shooting something specifically for me, set your Sony up so you're shooting raw and JPEG and just send me JPEG.
00:47:08.13
Aaron
Nope, I'm not going to do that.
00:47:13.40
Aaron
I'm not going
00:47:13.45
Seth Macey
had do you and Anyways, continue.
00:47:16.75
Aaron
to. I did change my export settings, though, for your sake.
00:47:20.26
Seth Macey
Thank God.
00:47:21.64
Aaron
Anywho, yeah, the the timing of it, I think you can control maybe a little bit. of like, Oh, I've always had an interest in this, but I've never really dove in. I've always kind of liked photography, but and now's the time to dive in. Maybe now I'm going to get hooked. Maybe, maybe there's a, maybe there's a fuse lighter that, that gets you going. Maybe it's someone in like my case that was like, you have a great eye. You should do this more.
00:47:47.23
Aaron
And that was enough to be for me to go, huh. Maybe I will.
00:47:51.84
Seth Macey
Was it your mother that told you that?
00:47:53.64
Aaron
No, it was like a friend of a friend at a party. It was strange.
00:47:56.64
Seth Macey
Oh.
00:47:58.63
Aaron
Someone I didn't know, but thank you.
00:47:59.90
Seth Macey
Thanks. I'm a natural. How was your response, Ray?
00:48:03.63
Aaron
Yeah. She's like, do you have an Instagram? I was like, I do not, but I'm ah now, and now I will. Now I'm gonna.
00:48:12.14
Seth Macey
Yeah.
00:48:12.69
Aaron
And the rest is history.
00:48:15.42
Seth Macey
It's funny how just little, uh, compliments can go, oh, maybe, maybe it's, I want to avoid saying naturally inclined, but maybe there's something to this. Maybe this is something worth exploring.
00:48:34.27
Aaron
compliments and how they fuel absolutely yeah
00:48:34.92
Seth Macey
Yeah, just, yeah.
00:48:40.54
Seth Macey
Which is an argument for I think why it's important when appropriate to give genuine compliments because you never know what that does for someone.
00:48:54.11
Seth Macey
And I say genuine because, you know, I think there is a lot of fluff in today's world. You know, the amount of times I've seen great photo on something that's not a great photo. I'm sorry, I'll say it.
00:49:06.79
Aaron
Yeah.
00:49:08.45
Seth Macey
i mean, art is subjective, I understand. But I do think it's a disservice when you tell someone what they want to hear. because you're worried about how it will affect the relationship, especially if you're close with them or I would much rather be the person who tells you something you don't want to hear and you're upset with me, but you go home and you realize, Hey, that guy is somebody who's going to always tell me how he feels. so So when he does tell me that this is great, not that, you know, my opinion is holy or anything, I'm just saying that, you know, that what I'm telling you is absolutely what I'm thinking.
00:49:49.68
Seth Macey
Like if you sent me a bad photo, I'd be like, this is bad because I want you to know that I'll always be real with you.
00:49:50.84
Aaron
Yep.
00:49:59.25
Seth Macey
And, um
00:50:04.40
Seth Macey
ah you know i just i just you know i just do I think it's a disservice when you see all the fluff. like We've talked about this before. You you never see... You see all on on the comments on all your photos, like the 20 comments that say, this is great, but maybe there's 100 people who scroll by or it was not a good shot.
00:50:20.92
Aaron
Yeah.
00:50:21.01
Seth Macey
And knowing that would be helpful, right? Knowing that this this didn't hit or this didn't land is helpful, but you don't get that.
00:50:24.78
Aaron
Yeah.
00:50:30.60
Seth Macey
You don't get that.
00:50:32.52
Aaron
No. And I, I agree. I think there's a, there's a responsibility for everyone out there themselves to curate your work
00:50:47.83
Seth Macey
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
00:50:48.95
Aaron
Maybe a little bit tighter, a little bit better. And challenge yourself to put out really good photos that you are proud of.
00:51:02.90
Seth Macey
yeah
00:51:03.50
Aaron
If again, if this is your thing, if this is what you want to be known for, to garnish business, whatever it may be, have a beautiful portfolio, really try to put out a to a plus photos in this marketplace. 10 years ago, I'd say put out whatever B C plus put out anything.
00:51:31.73
Aaron
I think in this oversaturated marketplace, like really challenge yourself to not be passed by out of like, this is just a this is a photo, which is fine.
00:51:31.87
Seth Macey
Bye.
00:51:45.33
Aaron
Enjoy it for yourself if that's what you want. But if you want to be known as a photographer, then I, no one else is going to say like Seth saying, that's kind of boring.
00:51:57.25
Aaron
Not your best. It would be nice.
00:51:59.89
Seth Macey
ah you Imagine saying that you get absolutely dominated by people.
00:52:03.67
Aaron
Yeah. Not the best I've seen from you.
00:52:04.69
Seth Macey
People would pile on you.
00:52:07.18
Aaron
Not the best I've seen from you. Better luck next time.
00:52:10.77
Seth Macey
Even just, even just, uh,
00:52:15.37
Seth Macey
You would never say this, but like not the best. Some of your other work's been better. Just like this isn't, you know, you're better than this.
00:52:22.79
Aaron
No.
00:52:23.64
Seth Macey
But if you said that publicly, people would, you'd be an asshole. You'd be this, you'd be that. But imagine that also ah week later, you're like, this is an amazing photo.
00:52:35.05
Seth Macey
If I had somebody who was routinely commenting on my photo saying, I don't like this or this isn't that great. And then a week later, they're like, love this. This is incredible. Now I'm not going to, that's not going to be my bar for what is a good and and and what's a good and none or not a great photo.
00:52:52.78
Seth Macey
But I will look at that username and be like, that person is so unapologetically honest. And I respect that.
00:53:00.72
Aaron
Yeah, that's true. We don't get that.
00:53:03.02
Seth Macey
You know,
00:53:03.49
Aaron
So we don't know. Like, what can you believe?
00:53:05.30
Seth Macey
We don't get that, but I think it is important to give that not unsolicited advice, but I think it is important.
00:53:05.70
Aaron
Mm-hmm.
00:53:10.81
Seth Macey
It is important to speak your mind, even if it is abrasive to just like, let's start with close friends texts or, you know, if you made something that was bad, I would tell you, especially if it was for the
00:53:27.79
Aaron
Yeah.
00:53:31.10
Seth Macey
And I would hope you wouldd do the same too.
00:53:31.44
Aaron
Yeah, I don't...
00:53:32.70
Seth Macey
I would hope you'd be like, you're better than this. And because it also holds, when you do that, you hold the person to the standard you know they're capable of.
00:53:35.54
Aaron
Yeah.
00:53:41.55
Aaron
Yeah, i don't I don't think, like you're saying, the public comment section is the place to do that.
00:53:45.82
Seth Macey
No.
00:53:47.53
Aaron
um And I think, as commenters, get away from Here's a, here's a truth that no one will admit. a lot of people commenting on your photos is basically what they should be saying is look at my profile.
00:54:01.63
Seth Macey
Yeah, it's most of the time it's that. I mean, not i'm trying to ah I'm trying to avoid being a cynic, but it can be that.
00:54:03.79
Aaron
Yeah. Yeah.
00:54:07.08
Seth Macey
I mean, there are definitely, of course, there are genuine people out there who just...
00:54:11.61
Aaron
Of course, but a lot of this, the strategy in that and taking your time to put fire emojis and literally people say, Hey, great photo. Take a look at my profile.
00:54:25.66
Aaron
Like they literally say that let alone the engagement. The idea of it is to boost your own portfolio, boost your own profile.
00:54:35.20
Seth Macey
Yeah, I mean, it's thing um it's the classic on threads. Photographer, share your work. I'd love to see it. It's, well, you're just the author of the post. You want the engagement.
00:54:43.35
Aaron
Yeah. And, and you have, you have close people that comment on your stuff that you know are genuine and you already follow them.
00:54:43.90
Seth Macey
Farmer.
00:54:53.00
Aaron
That's not what I'm saying, but basically the, I think the, the onus falls on yourself to curate the best of what you can do.
00:54:54.46
Seth Macey
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
00:55:04.83
Aaron
and have a portfolio that I'd rather in a year you had 10 fantastic photographs that I could scroll through than hundred that just dilute the quality of work.
00:55:18.49
Seth Macey
Yeah. Yeah. Too many ingredients.
00:55:21.92
Aaron
Yeah.
00:55:22.77
Seth Macey
um My favorite comment is, I don't know.
00:55:23.88
Aaron
I don't know. I don't know how we got here, but we did.
00:55:26.52
Seth Macey
My favorite comment is this is a good photo period. I routinely say that.
00:55:33.17
Aaron
Yeah. Yeah.
00:55:34.14
Seth Macey
Maybe I should have my personality. I don't know is my, my digital personality textual is not made for the social media world, which I've come to understand. There's
00:55:45.24
Aaron
I like Newt's comments. He, when, when he, no, his comments, when he likes a photo, he just, he's just says something horribly mean.
00:55:47.68
Seth Macey
captions.
00:55:55.21
Seth Macey
Yes, that's great.
00:55:56.50
Aaron
And you're like, oh, he liked it.
00:55:58.76
Seth Macey
Yeah, he liked it. He wished he had this. Or he'll write, sick.
00:56:00.91
Aaron
He's jealous. Yeah. Yeah.
00:56:03.79
Seth Macey
Like, oh, I got the nooch stamp.
00:56:05.72
Aaron
Yeah.
00:56:05.74
Seth Macey
Right on.
00:56:06.63
Aaron
He really likes it if he's mean.
00:56:08.94
Seth Macey
Yes, if he's mean to you, then it's a a great photo in his eyes.
00:56:09.33
Aaron
So. Yeah. If he makes fun of like nice caption idiot instead of talk about the photo, he really liked the photo.
00:56:21.46
Aaron
That's not.
00:56:21.57
Seth Macey
Oh, that's perfect.
00:56:22.90
Aaron
Yeah.
00:56:23.57
Seth Macey
Yeah. Or like, I remember I made a thumbnail for the YouTube and I'm like, I like trying different styles. I like, um, like lo-fi. i like the making the graphics that are really intricate.
00:56:36.29
Aaron
Mm-hmm.
00:56:36.61
Seth Macey
um but I did one that was, like low quality on purpose where it was just, you know, like a cutout of me, just a gray background with like aerial font, like really, yeah really, uh,
00:56:45.68
Aaron
Yeah.
00:56:53.67
Seth Macey
low quality, but just not a lot of, not a lot of bevels and edges. We'll say.
00:56:58.62
Aaron
Yeah. Yeah.
00:57:00.94
Seth Macey
And he was just like, he was like sick quality.
00:57:08.62
Seth Macey
was like, thanks. But you know what? So like in that instance, he genuinely was, cause he's somebody clearly who values like detail and intricate, uh, like digital masonry.
00:57:18.79
Aaron
Yeah.
00:57:21.83
Seth Macey
And, uh, So he just like, that's not his style. And he let me know that it's not his style. And you know what?
00:57:26.97
Aaron
Yeah.
00:57:27.32
Seth Macey
But so I, laugh I literally laughed because like, whatever. It'd be so easy. It's so easy in this days. Oh, so mean to me. I'm going to post a screenshot of how mean he was to me and shared on threads and all the photographers are going to gang up on him.
00:57:42.13
Seth Macey
Like, like, let's relax.
00:57:42.96
Aaron
Yeah.
00:57:44.44
Seth Macey
Let's not be so soft. Come on. Um,
00:57:48.42
Aaron
Yeah.
00:57:49.35
Seth Macey
This space, I saw a space that it was a comment in threads.
00:57:49.55
Aaron
We all...
00:57:53.82
Seth Macey
It was like talking about this and unsolicited advice. And the person was like, I'm paraphrasing somewhat along the lines of like, oh, this person ah came into your space.
00:58:05.56
Seth Macey
And I was like,
00:58:08.41
Seth Macey
It's not your space. Like this is everybody is a part of this.
00:58:12.23
Aaron
Mm-hmm.
00:58:12.98
Seth Macey
You know, everyone's kind of free to say everyone is free to say what they want. This is my opinion. That doesn't mean they're free of the consequences of it, but everyone is free to say and do as they please.
00:58:25.23
Seth Macey
And whether there's backlash or consequences for that is a different story. But in the case of Nooch saying like, oh, like this is he was essentially saying like, this is terrible. I don't like it. I, going back to what I was saying, I know now when he writes sick or if I go and talk to him, I know no matter what he says, it's the truth.
00:58:44.95
Aaron
Yeah.
00:58:45.80
Seth Macey
It is how he feels.
00:58:45.85
Aaron
He's not afraid.
00:58:47.82
Seth Macey
Whether you like it or hate it, you know that that is what he's thinking. And I like that. I personally like that.
00:58:54.39
Aaron
Yeah.
00:58:55.39
Seth Macey
um I don't know if everyone can handle that, but I think we should get to a place where we can maybe handle that and not be so
00:58:57.78
Aaron
yeah
00:59:04.58
Seth Macey
you know have a have a an unsolicited advice dm or a comment derail our day i mean have we gotten so fragile
00:59:16.40
Aaron
ah I think yes. The answer, i just think it's the environment of it where you you get
00:59:25.56
Aaron
I'm not sure I've gotten maybe one or two sort of like negative or like, who Hey, who asked you comments ah out of, I don't know how many in five years, thousands of positive stuff.
00:59:40.06
Seth Macey
Yeah.
00:59:44.69
Aaron
I think we've said it before, and this is a whole different episode. I think, photography is one of the here's strong opinion here it's one of the easiest skills to become pretty good at
00:59:58.96
Seth Macey
Nice, I would agree.
01:00:01.89
Aaron
and there's a lot of people out there that are good at photography and compared to other skills it's held up it's like you're ah You're an amazing pianist. You're an amazing photographer. You're an amazing golfer. You're an amazing mathematician. You're an amazing surgeon.
01:00:23.10
Aaron
It's held up with the same weight, but I would argue it's way easier than almost anything else to be very good at it.
01:00:35.52
Aaron
relatively good compared to the best.
01:00:39.10
Seth Macey
Yeah.
01:00:39.30
Aaron
So we have this ah may like insanely inflated ego right from the start. There's a quick success rate.
01:00:48.09
Seth Macey
Yeah.
01:00:49.44
Aaron
There's a really fast success rate. There's no,
01:00:51.45
Seth Macey
Especially with good tech now. The mirrorless autofocus is insane.
01:00:53.46
Aaron
Yeah, there is, can't pick up the didgeridoo and like as fast become recognized online for my musical skills with the didgeridoo.
01:01:08.71
Seth Macey
Yeah, so you should be sure you don't.
01:01:08.91
Aaron
I can't, I should definitely didgeridoo. Someone can't pick up piano or guitar and just get to a place where in a couple of months, you're people like, holy great solo.
01:01:24.05
Seth Macey
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:01:25.92
Aaron
There's this, there's this great, write that one down.
01:01:26.65
Seth Macey
You can hit the note with the camera pretty quick.
01:01:31.87
Seth Macey
Yeah.
01:01:32.04
Aaron
You can, you really can. And I think people get like a little bit like, look how great I am. Like they get this false sense of superiority because they pretty hard, pretty fast.
01:01:43.55
Seth Macey
Yeah, you get Dunning-Kruger'd pretty hard. Because then i would because then you stu you do start to realize, okay, there's a lot of small intricacies that do take you to the next level beyond that.
01:01:55.29
Aaron
Absolutely.
01:01:56.03
Seth Macey
If you get that far, then you your your confidence in how skilled you are does dip before ascending gradually over a period of time.
01:01:56.08
Aaron
But
01:02:03.72
Aaron
in this environment of this is great, this is best photo I've seen all day. That's all you get. youre You're not, you're not, most people are not submitting into contests and losing.
01:02:11.45
Seth Macey
Yeah.
01:02:17.45
Aaron
Most people are not paying to submit into contests and losing money. They're not getting actual feedback of like, this isn't the best photo I've seen all day.
01:02:22.58
Seth Macey
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
01:02:26.71
Aaron
Right. you You just get this sort of, hey, that this photo is pretty good. i have amazing equipment. i I did a little bit of editing and I'm getting all this recognition for this photo feels really good.
01:02:40.61
Aaron
I'm going to I'm going to keep going with it. I think it's, I think it's, uh, I think it's wonderful. I think there's a lot of places you can take it. I think there's a lot of intricacies. You can go with it.
01:02:51.05
Aaron
It's people that track Milky ways and do astrology.
01:02:54.81
Seth Macey
saying
01:02:55.09
Aaron
Um, yeah. Um,
01:02:58.03
Seth Macey
Astronomy.
01:02:58.22
Aaron
Unbelievable. Astronomy. Thank you. ah Unbelievable, unbelievable stuff and, and technicals and, and science involved in it.
01:03:02.65
Seth Macey
Yeah.
01:03:07.13
Aaron
Absolutely. There's, there's all these avenues that you can dig really deep, but on ah on a surface level, you can be pretty darn good, pretty darn quick and feel like, well, I just learned this tough skill. That's equal to learning piano in two months.
01:03:23.66
Aaron
I'm pretty amazing.
01:03:23.70
Seth Macey
I'm a savant. I'm a savant.
01:03:25.14
Aaron
Yeah. Yeah.
01:03:26.38
Seth Macey
Maybe my next caption on a photo that I post three years from now, um because that seems to be my frequency of posting, will be trash this photo.
01:03:37.13
Seth Macey
Like tear me apart in the comments of all the things you don't like.
01:03:41.01
Aaron
yeah you see that on you do see that on reddit a bunch the people ask for it how how can i make this photo better what how can i
01:03:40.99
Seth Macey
We'll see. We'll see.
01:03:45.05
Seth Macey
oh and people are.
01:03:47.99
Seth Macey
Yeah, good. We should start a roast my photo session and on this podcast.
01:03:54.89
Aaron
yeah let's send it in no but we're experts at roasting
01:03:56.59
Seth Macey
Yeah, even though like we're not experts or masters in photography, it'll still be fun. Yeah, if you want to get roasted, send it in.
01:04:08.44
Aaron
Yeah.
01:04:09.17
Seth Macey
um but Until next time.
01:04:10.02
Aaron
Crush it. All right, we got to go.
01:04:11.74
Seth Macey
We do got to go. Until next time. If you like this podcast episode, feel free to leave a rating on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. It's cost-free, effective way to support the show. You can also leave a PayPal donation for any amount that is equal to the value you receive from our episodes. Link to that is also in the episode description.
01:04:26.37
Seth Macey
And if you're on listening on Spotify or Apple Podcasts or any other kind of audio streaming only platform, and you want to see Aaron's road runner hair, you can subscribe to our YouTube channel.
01:04:37.81
Aaron
deep.
01:04:40.41
Seth Macey
And that's all I got for today. Thanks, man.
01:04:42.45
Aaron
Hey, thank you.