How to Balance Creating for Art and Business as a Photographer

Are you a content creator, a photographer, or both? In this episode, we tackle a listener's question about balancing artistic passion with creating for business. We share personal stories, tips for staying authentic, and how to pitch ideas without overhauling your online persona. Whether you're navigating creative identity or building client relationships, this episode is packed with insights to help you thrive.

Expect to Learn:

• How intent shapes the distinction between creating for art vs. for business
• How to stay true to your artistic identity while taking on client-driven projects
• How to craft compelling pitches without needing an extensive portfolio
• Why staying authentic to your creative passions leads to opportunities

Sponsors:

Thanks to Tamron for sponsoring this episode! Now through September 28th, save up to $300 on Tamron lenses like the 18-300mm all-in-one zoom or the 35-150mm F/2-2.8 VXD. Students and faculty can save even more with the Tamron EDU Program. Visit www.tamron-americas.com or your local retailer to shop and save!

Thanks to the National Park Foundation for sponsoring today’s episode. Enter the Share the Experience photo contest for a chance to win $10,000 and prizes from Celestron, Historic Hotels of America, and YETI. The grand prize winner’s photo could be featured on the America the Beautiful—the National Parks and Federal Recreational Lands Annual Pass.

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Thanks for listening!
Go get shooting, go get editing, and stay focused.

@sethmacey
@mantis_photography
@thephotographermindset

Transcript

00:55.95
Seth Macey
This is the Photographer Mindset Podcast. I'm your co-host Seth Macey.

00:59.18
Aaron
And I'm your co-host Aaron Mannes

01:00.94
Seth Macey
Sometimes we take questions on the show. Build a topic out of it. We've done that. Did we do that two episodes ago? Two episodes ago, we did the brand ambassador thing. Good responses. Thanks to everybody who wrote in or messaged us about it.

01:12.33
Seth Macey
That's like one person probably.

01:15.26
Aaron
yeah

01:15.31
Seth Macey
I'm just kidding. um But we have another one today that we figured we could answer as best we could and build an episode off that.

01:26.30
Seth Macey
So let's do it. What we got?

01:28.01
Aaron
Yeah. Jay Goff grid sent me a message the other day. going to skip to the meat of it, but he was saying, i was going back and forth with myself about the difference between a content creator and a photographer.

01:41.89
Aaron
Also how both have influences on each other, mostly because I'm having this internal conflict as my Instagram went from a scrapbook of my photos as a progression of skill to now a funnel for business.

01:56.31
Aaron
and more content creator-y material. Also, just the niche I've boxed myself into, I've ran into people who are strictly content creators and don't necessarily appreciate or approach the photos they post as an art form, but rather something to drive metrics and aren't creating for themselves.

02:18.52
Aaron
Sorry for the long message, blah, blah. You don't have to apologize. a was very succinct. We're going to get into it.

02:25.94
Seth Macey
Yeah, don't apologize unless you've done something wrong or you're Canadian.

02:29.88
Aaron
Yeah. Turn it. Thank me for reading it and spending the time to answer it.

02:35.86
Seth Macey
Thanks so much, Jake. ah Oh my goodness, where to start? ah Would you consider yourself a content creator or photographer?

02:44.55
Aaron
Sometimes both.

02:46.28
Seth Macey
Say more.

02:48.75
Aaron
I think it depends what you want to do. And if you want to do both and they scratch different itches, uh, for me, recently, uh, in terms of photography, I've been editing based on memories and recall.

03:05.25
Aaron
So the other day I was running in, ah the trail near my house and ran into a barred owl just off the trail. And that reminded me of, have all these shots of this wonderful barred owl moment.

03:17.63
Aaron
And I went back and edited one of those photos, a different moment.

03:20.51
Seth Macey
Different moment. Yeah.

03:22.76
Aaron
Uh, didn't have my camera while was running. probably should. That'd be a ah new sport. But yeah, so that ah someone posted their time in Acadia and I was like, I'm going to go Acadia right now in my history and look at some of my photos.

03:38.02
Aaron
And then on the other hand, I had a call with Telefunken for quarter four and things that we need to do. And I'm not going to flood my Instagram with pictures of microphones, I might put something up there like I've done of things that I'm proud of, but I'm creating content specifically for them and for their needs based on holidays coming up, ah things like that.

04:04.23
Aaron
ah Sales that are coming up. We need these three microphones grouped together, et cetera, et cetera. So I'm creating content versus, and I'm trying to make it as artistic as possible. I'm trying to use my skills as a photographer,

04:17.76
Aaron
to make the best product I can. And I think they only feed each other, but it's, it's somewhat separate. It's somewhat the same and somewhat separate based on how I view it.

04:30.31
Seth Macey
Right, this is also confusing to me because I would argue that anything that you create and share online is content by definition, is it not? Even your barred owls, just the intent behind its delivery is different.

04:45.45
Aaron
Yeah. Yeah, i would agree.

04:47.73
Seth Macey
So then aren't we all content creators if we're sharing our work on Instagram? I think hey he comes in it comes down to the intent.

04:52.65
Aaron
Yeah. i Who are you doing it for? i guess is maybe. Yeah.

04:57.03
Seth Macey
I mean, if the if the creation of a photograph is for marketing purposes, then i guess in this sense, you're what you're calling a content creator, right?

05:07.74
Aaron
Yeah.

05:09.54
Seth Macey
and And so you're a marketing photographer in that instance.

05:15.35
Aaron
Yeah.

05:17.58
Seth Macey
And so what was the question? There's like this this struggle between...

05:22.26
Aaron
Yeah. What's the difference? I think what he's alluding to is his, he had a passion or he had a ah direction that his grid was going.

05:33.10
Aaron
We get very tied to our grids, right? So he had a direction for that. And now he's finding himself doing content creation and running into people and dealing with people that maybe aren't viewing it the same way that he is.

05:46.09
Aaron
So I think there's, there's also different kinds of content creators. Yeah. There's a lot of, there's talking heads, there's reviews, there's, going to do flashy transitions.

05:50.85
Seth Macey
sure

05:56.68
Aaron
I'm going to try to make something very cinematic and meaningful.

06:03.14
Aaron
I mean, there I could list a thousand things probably if I had the time to to think it out, but I just think you can attack it in very different ways.

06:15.02
Seth Macey
Yeah. I mean, is it as simple as

06:22.16
Seth Macey
Not caring.

06:25.41
Aaron
Maybe. Maybe.

06:29.03
Seth Macey
Right.

06:30.19
Aaron
Yeah.

06:30.93
Seth Macey
um

06:32.15
Aaron
Go ahead.

06:33.77
Seth Macey
I think, you know, we've talked, we've talked before too, that let's say for example, Jake and other individuals wanted their, if it was important to them, their grid to remain their art, their artistic expression. Right.

06:51.56
Seth Macey
They didn't want to mix the content they're creating for other brands or businesses or for the intent of monetization, right? They don't want to mix that with their artistic expression. the things that they The reason they originally fell in love with this art form, right?

07:08.01
Aaron
Mm-hmm.

07:10.88
Seth Macey
I think it's wrong to

07:15.61
Seth Macey
assume that Instagram is the only vessel to create content

07:22.74
Seth Macey
branded or curated content for the purpose of marketing monetization. For example, you and I just did the, um

07:34.55
Seth Macey
The lens review video in Alaska. We did do a short form vertical video because that was part of the deal. But the meat and but mean potatoes of that assignment was horizontal for YouTube and their website.

07:47.80
Seth Macey
And we got to create that content for marketing purposes and not feel like it needed to live properly.

07:56.69
Seth Macey
in the social media world with our names attached to it. What I'm saying is there are ways to... People need visual content outside of these vertical phones.

08:11.13
Seth Macey
People need headers for website pages, for blogs. People need... Lens review videos that go on the product page of a website. People need this. Businesses need this kind of stuff. And you can be a content creator in different arenas rather than feeling like it needs to be straight on your grid. I think you can do both is what I'm saying.

08:29.10
Aaron
Yeah.

08:29.18
Seth Macey
I think can do both.

08:31.59
Aaron
I think you can. And I think you could do whatever you really want to do. I think there's an important point that we often point out is that I think there's some confusion with if I put my content creation stuff, all right, I'm going to get away from animals. Aren't paying the bills. You know, I love this picture of a grizzly.

08:51.19
Aaron
i'm gonna I'm going I'm going to put that aside. I'll just keep that for myself. I'm going to put some of the work I've done ah with restaurants or Airbnbs. I'm going to flood my grid with that because the hopes that people see that and reach out and then start throwing money at me to do the same for them.

09:03.98
Seth Macey
Thank you.

09:09.45
Aaron
Where I feel like the real success, if you're waiting for that, you might get a couple hits here and there. You might get a couple people that reach out and need something or give you an opportunity to have a conversation.

09:23.71
Aaron
But the real magic is reaching out to companies and showing them what you can do, what idea you have.

09:32.66
Seth Macey
yeah

09:34.41
Aaron
You don't need a crazy portfolio if you have a very solid idea with some proof of concept that you can do it. I could probably take, i don't need 20 cabins to prove to one cabin that I can shoot a cabin in a good way.

09:51.39
Seth Macey
How many would you say you need?

09:51.66
Aaron
I could,

09:53.98
Seth Macey
Two, three? Three really good sets?

09:55.11
Aaron
mate maybe, maybe one of a really photo photogenic cabin that shows like, Hey, this is one cabin I did.

09:58.68
Seth Macey
Yeah.

10:03.35
Aaron
If you need proof of how many I did, I could provide that, but I want to show you the work. So this cabin is my favorite shoot. Here's 20 photos from it, just to give you an idea of what my work looks like.

10:16.62
Aaron
And I think if they're interested, that connection is part of the, the cell and you can do that all day long. And then you're like, Oh, I do have an Instagram. They look at it and they're like, Whoa, like look at his wildlife stuff or look at his nature stuff. That's really cool.

10:30.57
Aaron
I didn't know that. I mean, Newt has that story a hundred times. ah he He talked about mountain Gazette. That's a fan of goose goose found him or a mountain Gazette found

10:41.33
Seth Macey
Yeah, run run this play. This is crazy. This is crazy.

10:43.82
Aaron
So, so Nooch loves wildlife. Nooch loves the band Goose. By looking at his Instagram, you'd have no clue that he is a concert photographer, videographer, does documentaries, does archivists for that, does a ton of stuff for them from the inn and the connection of photography.

11:02.59
Aaron
Fine. He does all that stuff. He's been tagged on Goose's page, on Goose's Instagram, on their work, on their YouTube, what have you.

11:13.98
Aaron
The owner of Mountain Gazette saw this photographer and looked him up and saw all his wildlife and nature stuff. Also happens they on the mountain because own Mountain Gazette, the magazine.

11:25.30
Aaron
So then contacts him. Hey, I met you through goose. um I'd love to talk about you doing some work in the stuff that you love nature, wildlife photography for our magazine.

11:40.66
Seth Macey
Again, they sent him to Churchill, Manitoba.

11:44.10
Aaron
Yeah. I don't know if that's in the books yet. Oh no, they did. That was the one they did. Yeah. He was looking for the next step, but yeah, yeah, yeah. So Yeah, and that comes from, again, the portfolio outside of his Instagram, but then within the Instagram.

11:56.67
Seth Macey
Thank

11:59.08
Aaron
So ah one can argue, stay true to who you really are. If you want to promote yourself as a photographer, if you want to promote yourself as a content creator, okay, that's fine too, and do that.

12:14.82
Aaron
Or if you want to promote yourself as both and mix everything together, kind of like the Ian Jones model.

12:20.94
Seth Macey
Yeah. What's crazy about Mike, I'm on his Instagram right now. If you stumbled across this, no website, no bio. ah Every single photo is just epic wildlife. and none of it is marketing or branded for anything.

12:38.01
Seth Macey
Yet he has turned photography and videography into his literal livelihood.

12:48.82
Aaron
Right.

12:49.64
Seth Macey
Which is insane. um And not needing to change his artistic approach on Instagram, even though he doesn't give a shit about it, really.

12:51.47
Aaron
By, by going out and getting it. So I think that's the important part. If you're,

13:01.18
Aaron
Yeah.

13:01.31
Seth Macey
But

13:02.69
Aaron
So listen, I think if, if your motivation to start switching your profile to more content, creating, as you said, stuff, then that's fine. If that's what you and you're like, you know what, this is kind of fun. Get trying to get engagement, playing the engagement game, trying to get the views, trying to produce winners for these companies.

13:25.24
Aaron
I'm going to promote that. That's what I'd rather do. if that's not the case. If like, you'd rather be taking photos of wildlife or nature or fashion or portraits.

13:41.99
Aaron
I think I suggest keeping that your, your truth, your, your brand, your artists' interests. So if those certain companies do see things or Mountain Gazette checks you out.

13:56.29
Aaron
So let's, let's, let's reverse engineer this goose.

13:59.35
Seth Macey
Mm-hmm.

14:00.21
Aaron
Uh, Mike is so blown away that he's working for goose. He forgets about wildlife, right? Forget blue herons, green herons, Fox. I'm done with, I'm archiving everything.

14:12.11
Aaron
I'm working with my favorite band. I'm putting in all these ah clips and videos and pictures. I want to really showcase the fact that I'm their guy.

14:23.00
Aaron
Mountain Gazette looks at his profile and sees exactly what they think they're going to see. bunch of concert photography. Cool. What not? Probably not stimulated or the light bulb doesn't go off for them to reach out and say, Hey, Whoa, I know clue.

14:33.57
Seth Macey
Yeah, good

14:40.23
Aaron
You did all this stuff. Let's talk and let's come up with a side gig for you. Right?

14:49.35
Seth Macey
yeah

14:49.44
Aaron
So like it if he just abandoned what his truth was, that awesome thing, which I think

14:49.94
Seth Macey
wait

14:58.20
Aaron
might not be as lucrative, but his, he lights up when he's talking about going to photograph for a mountain Gazette and going on these missions to like get polar bear photos and being able to choose where he goes next. And they want to fund it and all that stuff. That's where he's like, I can't believe I'm actually getting paid for my wildlife photography. That is the ultimate dream.

15:25.38
Seth Macey
Yeah. And not overcomplicating it at all. Not feeling like I need to look the part everywhere that I exist online.

15:36.59
Aaron
Yeah.

15:40.65
Seth Macey
you mean you could You don't have any experience doing microphones on your Instagram, and you've been working with Telefunken for a very long time, and very lucrative from my understanding, and also you know nice connections and people to work with.

15:46.78
Aaron
um

15:58.34
Aaron
yeah

15:58.91
Seth Macey
Your whole page is nature and wildlife. I don't think you need to

16:06.47
Seth Macey
overtly display Hey, I know how to make branded content. If you're trying to attain those kinds of contracts.

16:17.08
Aaron
No, again, we talked about it in few episodes ago and when I was discussing Telefunken, but just the interest and the having an idea and reaching out to company after company with, I guess, specific ideas.

16:31.76
Aaron
So ah just another idea that we, we worked on solo stove and, uh, their pizza, they had a pizza oven and we worked, we worked on that.

16:40.00
Seth Macey
Yep.

16:42.05
Aaron
We had Mike and I at that time had a pitch for an idea with their pizza oven. It was wild. It was a wild idea. We spelled it all out.

16:52.54
Aaron
They were like, ah, it's a little bit more expensive than we'd want to spend for right now. It's ah it's a bit much. We're like, cool. Do you know how many pizza oven like portable pizza oven companies there are.

17:04.00
Aaron
i mean, if you search it up now, you'd find 20. There's no reason to not go to each one of those and pitch that idea or versions of that idea and have the work behind it to show, hey this is our idea idea. This is what we can do. This is what we've done before. We've worked with certain companies, X, y and Z, ah whatever it may be.

17:24.28
Aaron
um so I guess more importantly than plastering it on your profile is

17:31.58
Seth Macey
Thank you.

17:31.73
Aaron
searching, searching for what you want to be making content for, then it is less content creating and it's more, i want to be doing this. I am going to put my all into it.

17:42.95
Aaron
I am going to be artistic about it. am going to care about that over maybe the, the numbers necessarily, but I'm going to, I'm going to go for Hopefully I can get a win-win and, and, and get both, you know? So I think,

17:59.83
Aaron
I think that's key. I think combining your passion. Sometimes I brought microphones into nature. Like that's not probably that could flop. That could have flopped so hard. I really could have, but it didn't, it did well.

18:13.12
Aaron
And then that created ah like, can you do more of this stuff out in nature with, you know, Skittles with our colored mics or crayons? Uh, we have a copper mic and you drop pennies on like whatever it is from that one idea. um that went pretty well then creates all these other opportunities to be creative and create content for them.

18:38.22
Seth Macey
Yeah, which is interesting because, i mean, have you ever felt the need that you needed to change your online profile to fit an archetype?

18:45.54
Aaron
No, the only thing I've ever felt like I needed to change was my website and add different tabs. So, and I, I wasn't super fast about that, but just for an example, like when cabin photography, I was like, okay, I need a place when I reach out to show them that I have a website and a landing page with a lot of nice photos right there, there and there.

18:51.62
Seth Macey
Great.

19:08.00
Aaron
and not mixed in between. I do occasional cabin photo. I feel like it fits my grid, especially in the fall or winter. Like I like adding those sorts of photos every once in a while. Um, but I wanted a place where they all were and I would add that tab.

19:23.04
Aaron
Then I did a couple of things for restaurants. I had a food tab with a few of my favorite photos. Then I have a national park wall that is ever ongoing and Who knows if that's going to stall out, but that's a tab as well, you know, ah to commemorate kind of the national parks that I've been to and the photos that I got from them.

19:42.99
Aaron
I'm trying to think what else. Oh, and then with the microphones, I was like, I'm going to have a product tab just so I can put in this work that I've done and and I've done a lot of it to be able to showcase certain things.

19:50.39
Seth Macey
Mm-hmm.

19:55.73
Aaron
Maybe I want to go to a music store. Maybe i have a guitar in mind that I really want to buy and I can talk to a music store owner and show them that I've worked with Telefunken and come up with a plan and ah do sort of the same thing with their guitars as this and and get something from it that I'm really passionate about.

20:04.46
Seth Macey
isn

20:13.14
Aaron
So I think it's just like a building block sort of chain that we keep evolving and going through. But I don't think you need to...

20:25.56
Aaron
I don't think you need to constantly be adjusting and and changing your Instagram to prove what you are or kind of persuade or manipulate people to believe you're a certain type of photographer or content creator.

20:41.32
Aaron
I think you can just leave your best work out there, whatever that is, whether it's content creation or photos that you're very proud of or videos that you're very proud of.

20:47.63
Seth Macey
yeah

20:50.16
Aaron
And that kind of speaks volumes to who you are as a person that can create

20:56.07
Seth Macey
True.

20:56.56
Aaron
imagery.

20:57.70
Seth Macey
Yeah.

20:57.76
Aaron
a it So...

20:59.87
Seth Macey
Yeah, I agree. I mean... I like to think of it as my my best work that is my passion photography and videography that may not directly generate me business. So bears and eagles, etc.

21:16.94
Seth Macey
That lives on proudly on my Instagram when I do find the time to post. And then the other stuff that is, keep using this content creation-y quote finger thing, um that has the intent of marketing purposes and showing that I'm capable of generating assets that are designed to generate said business's revenue, that my that work lives on my website probably.

21:29.17
Aaron
Mm-hmm.

21:47.32
Seth Macey
um And so...

21:52.56
Seth Macey
Each area has its purpose in displaying the work the best way that it can. The website is for, here's what I can do to generate you revenue.

22:02.96
Seth Macey
This is my best work in that sense. And my personal Instagram is, here's my favorite stuff that I like to do

22:12.33
Aaron
Mm-hmm.

22:12.39
Seth Macey
ah

22:12.47
Aaron
Mm-hmm.

22:13.06
Seth Macey
And like you said, i think maybe that shines through authentically. Um, rarely am I sending people to, Hey, check out my Instagram. If you can, if they're, if I'm trying to get them to consider hiring me.

22:24.60
Seth Macey
So like, here's an example. So this, the, I've been referencing recently the summer camp cause it's my, takes a lot of my time during the summer, right? July and August kids are away at camp. Probably my favorite client ever to work for, by the way.

22:38.28
Seth Macey
Um, hopefully they're listening. Um, when, before I started working with them, I sent them my website, which has links to my Instagram all over it.

22:51.14
Seth Macey
So website looked good, looked professional, showcased the body of work in the outdoor sector.

22:59.88
Seth Macey
Likely allowed them to envision, hey, this this guy will do a good job for us. Clearly he is capable and has... some clients previously to back it up.

23:13.03
Seth Macey
Then they found my Instagram. We're like, Oh my God, this wildlife is incredible. We didn't know that you like to do that also. I'm like, yeah, like it just adds some personality, I feel.

23:24.88
Aaron
Yeah.

23:25.49
Seth Macey
and not And I'm not in your face about it. like did They just come to discover it on their own. Hey, this person has other interests that I think are pretty cool on a personal level that don't even relate to my marketing or business purposes.

23:39.86
Seth Macey
I think it it comes across as very authentic.

23:40.03
Aaron
Yeah.

23:43.51
Aaron
yeah And even as, even in relationship building, here's just a, here's another story is I was asked, I'm a golfer. And if you don't know that,

23:55.21
Aaron
That's a joke. You probably do. Uh, I was golfing and my good friend is the accountant of the golf course. The owner, uh, he was talking to us while we were just getting a bite to eat after the round.

24:03.62
Seth Macey
Yeah.

24:07.21
Aaron
He mentioned something about photos. Uh, my friend Matt was like, you know, Matt, he's also our accountant. Uh, Matt was like, Oh, this guy takes photos. And the guy was like, could you come tomorrow and photograph an Easter brunch?

24:21.25
Aaron
And I was like, oh, like it, it just hit me of like, that's not my thing. Like an Eastern brunch.

24:27.04
Seth Macey
yeah

24:28.61
Aaron
But I was like, okay, I've done wildlife. So I can, I can handle some people chowing down at the buffet.

24:34.92
Seth Macey
some people chowing down at the buffet. Yeah, nice.

24:37.15
Aaron
Yeah. And I, I've done cabins so I can handle some architecture and the building and the light and plate or whatever it may be.

24:44.23
Seth Macey
Sure.

24:46.83
Aaron
um So I did this.

24:49.32
Seth Macey
You did?

24:49.48
Aaron
I did.

24:49.92
Seth Macey
didn't hear about this. is awesome.

24:52.15
Aaron
Yeah, it was over the, it was like Easter. So it was like April. And then after that, can you come back and do mother's day brunch?

24:55.69
Seth Macey
Okay.

24:58.78
Aaron
Okay. How many brunches do we have? got die I don't know. How can I make this interesting or different, but sure.

25:04.36
Seth Macey
You getting fed though?

25:04.48
Aaron
I'll do it. Uh, you know what? Yes. They've, they've asked me every time I was not in the mood to eat. I was in the mood to like work and get out of here.

25:13.06
Seth Macey
Oh, dude, that's a tragedy.

25:15.46
Aaron
I know it it really, I, I snuck a little bit of, uh, omelets and, and, uh, yeah, some craps.

25:20.91
Seth Macey
Some crepes? Crepes?

25:24.17
Aaron
Uh, anyways, the, I posted a few things on stories every once in a while, just to show like that, this is what I did today. So it was ah a photo on a story. Uh, the general manager, who's an awesome person saw that link and then DM me and was like,

25:42.47
Aaron
Oh, like I had no idea that you did like this nature and wildlife stuff. If, if I had known that, like we would have been talking all day and now we just had like this amazing connection through, through that.

25:53.51
Seth Macey
Right.

25:55.14
Aaron
So if I filled my, again, if I filled my, Oh, now I'm a brunch ah photographer. I got to, I got to add some brunch stuff to my Instagram and like fill it up and like, let me archive some animal stuff.

26:04.97
Seth Macey
Right, yeah right, right.

26:08.06
Aaron
I want people to see this. Maybe this is a moneymaker for me. So I'm going to show that I can make content maybe i get these other venues and things like that. You know, those connections don't happen. I guess what I'm learning in this conversation real time is like being very true to who you are.

26:25.77
Aaron
And there's a million different ways to get gigs, to create content, to, to, work in a different variety of places, Easter brunch versus microphones in the woods versus a cabin versus ah restaurant versus yeah the list goes on and on.

26:45.18
Aaron
So just being true to yourself and promoting yourself and like, Hey, I have an idea. I feel like I can do this. Let me give it a go. I don't need to prove it with an entire portfolio on Instagram that shows that that I can do it.

27:00.46
Aaron
And I might argue that that might hurt you. Sometimes, sometimes an idea, if I'm pitching you an idea, Seth, your mind is taking it to a place that is very attractive to you.

27:15.07
Aaron
The color scheme, the ideas, the angles, the whatnot. If you see my work and it does not apply to your venue or your product or what we're trying to do, you might get a block of like,

27:28.76
Aaron
ah I don't know if that's really for me. Oh, that reel he put up got 100 views. me That's not the kind of thing I want to pay for. Versus.

27:39.45
Seth Macey
Whereas like if a wildlife reel got 100 views, so what?

27:43.61
Aaron
Right. Versus the.

27:46.30
Seth Macey
To that person anyways.

27:47.56
Aaron
The idea of it, I think sometimes can be stronger or showing it exactly. ah You have the product in your house or something like it. Hey, this is the idea. This is where I want to take it, but I would love to do this in um in the Rocky Mountains or the Appalachian, like wherever.

28:07.56
Aaron
And giving them the exact sort of feel of what you're trying to do with their product, not some other venue or not some other product where they can be like, meh, not interested.

28:20.52
Seth Macey
Well, your pitch to Telefunken, the little video you made, was awesome. Is that safe to say that that was the catalyst for generating you more business with them? You know, the one where the mic is in the woods and you walk up to it and you did sound design where the crowd starts cheering?

28:34.61
Aaron
Yeah, and it's just the, it's a crowd cheering overdubbed with like crickets and nature getting louder as well, which I thought was clever.

28:46.43
Aaron
Just like enjoying nature. They never used that, but yes, that, that session was,

28:50.97
Seth Macey
Okay, yes.

28:53.51
Aaron
that idea that was a video, but I was taking them out into the woods to put on stumps, put on moss. That's their wooden mics. They have a, a cherry wood one and a Oak one.

29:05.21
Seth Macey
Yeah.

29:05.69
Aaron
Um, and they're, they're two different shades, but go on.

29:06.91
Seth Macey
Well, I have question regarding this.

29:09.17
Aaron
Yeah.

29:09.64
Seth Macey
So after you after you filmed that... little sequence. It's just a one shot. It's really well done. Um, we'll play it on YouTube. Hopefully. Yeah.

29:20.49
Seth Macey
You're YouTube.

29:20.58
Aaron
Yeah.

29:20.91
Seth Macey
Yeah.

29:21.89
Aaron
Yeah.

29:22.27
Seth Macey
Um, what did, did you story that? Did you reel it? Did you in instant, did you email it rather? Um, what was the the vessel to get from you to somebody?

29:37.65
Aaron
Yeah. Well, the the vessel in that story, there was a connection in terms of, Hey, the guy that's in charge of this, I know this person.

29:39.02
Seth Macey
Yeah.

29:47.31
Aaron
So I had an introduction and I, that person also plays guitar in my,

29:52.10
Seth Macey
It was at the bar where your work was hanging, right?

29:54.51
Aaron
Yes. So that person plays guitar and was at that bar playing guitar for this benefit. And I got the introduction through them. And I've seen this band before, but I didn't know there was like a, we had a mutual relationship, a friendship.

30:10.32
Aaron
So I went to a couple of their gigs. Hey, I'm that guy, blah, blah, blah, blah. And as we became, now i'm working on the friendship. This idea is getting in my head.

30:22.58
Aaron
I actually see goose is using those microphones and one of the wooden ones. I look them up. I'm like, Whoa, those are, those are nice. Those are expensive. They're handcrafted wood.

30:33.40
Aaron
Really cool. Uh, I could, wonder if I had photographed these like out in nature, and, and make some really nice posts. They don't have anything like that. And they're, they're going to,

30:46.17
Aaron
their design team and saying like, we want wooden microphones, wooden handled microphones. Okay. This is this is an opening potentially. So now that I know this guy, I bring it up to him.

30:57.81
Aaron
I, I don't remember if I went to a gig that he was playing or got the introduction from our mutual friend and, and wrote him, but essentially was like, Hey, do you have a minute for a quick call?

31:05.72
Seth Macey
Mm-hmm.

31:10.74
Aaron
I have an idea about your, or for your wooden microphones. And he gave me the time. I think began again, because of that relationship, maybe he would have anyways.

31:20.78
Aaron
Uh, but definitely because of that. And just said like, Hey, I do a lot of nature stuff. This is not really on my alley, but I'm pretty confident that just the design of these would go really well out in the woods. I want to hike wherever, wherever I'm going, let me show these things while I was out there taking photographs. I had the idea of the video that you were just describing where, Oh, I'm going I'm bring my guitar out into the woods and pretend I'm like coming onto stage.

31:49.17
Aaron
So in focus is just the wooden microphone. woods background sun setting through the trees and i'm picking up a guitar out of focus and coming into it to the the applause of the crowd and the applause of crickets and birds and chirping and whatnot and then it just cuts uh and i sent them that as well and i was like i do photos but i also do video and i thought this was a cool concept um

32:06.89
Seth Macey
you've mentioned that.

32:16.00
Aaron
And they're like, that's really cool. It's one of those ones. They've given me tons of work and they're awesome. ah It's one of those ones, but they don't they don't go over the moon with it.

32:26.84
Seth Macey
yeah you've mentioned that

32:28.02
Aaron
Yeah. And that's fine, but it took a little bit getting used to. And after that first session, they're like, Hey, can you come in for a meeting? And then gave me a case of microphones, every color under the sun.

32:39.19
Aaron
And they're like, keep these, keep these as long as you want them. They're yours. Just keep churning out work. And that's been two summers in a row.

32:50.74
Seth Macey
But you didn't need to change anything online, your online persona in any way or any form to help with the convincing of that idea.

32:54.21
Aaron
no.

33:03.32
Aaron
No, I had to produce for them and they had to keep wanting to use it and that's it.

33:05.84
Seth Macey
Sure.

33:11.98
Aaron
So very successful in in that avenue for everyone that's that successful. There's 20, 30 that didn't work out, right?

33:21.53
Seth Macey
Yes.

33:21.72
Aaron
So I think that's important to know that it's not just, it's not as easy as that, that I just described. That doesn't happen every time, but you will get these good ones, right? If you keep working at it, you'll get these good relationships like Seth and the camp.

33:36.13
Aaron
That's, is this your second summer, third summer?

33:38.88
Seth Macey
So it's my second summer. First summer to me and I probably to them was, uh, can we trust you, but not fully, right?

33:46.51
Aaron
Hmm.

33:47.67
Seth Macey
ah felt like I did a good job. They said I did a good job. The second year, which was this past summer was, okay, here's a laundry list of things we want done. We can't afford it all at once. We'd like to essentially have this be every single year. Let's just start knocking things off. Uh, if the price fits.

34:06.89
Aaron
Yeah.

34:06.88
Seth Macey
And right now I'm editing videos. I think I sent you one.

34:10.97
Aaron
Yeah. Awesome. but What i I was like,

34:12.37
Seth Macey
And Aaron said he had no notes. Unbelievable.

34:16.09
Aaron
this is great for what it is. Like what it's supposed to be.

34:18.94
Seth Macey
Yeah.

34:18.98
Aaron
No notes.

34:20.42
Seth Macey
Yeah. I love when Aaron doesn't have notes. So it's been so much fun, man. um Like you said, you get, I think I said on this show, like I did a, at least in on my website I did and a mental rebrand where like, I'm not touching anything if it doesn't have to do with outside.

34:36.97
Aaron
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

34:37.16
Seth Macey
i'm I'm just not doing it. Like the other day I did, um, I did some drone photography for a family friend. They'd put an addition on their house and they just wanted, and they had this also this old photograph from like the sixties of what the property used to look like. And they wanted a new one to put them side by side as prints.

34:54.86
Seth Macey
So just when, just as a favor, um, did those, uh, did some drone photography and a couple of the photos look like listings too. And they're do you ever think about doing like real estate?

35:09.03
Seth Macey
and I said, not

35:11.21
Aaron
no

35:12.34
Seth Macey
no, I don't, I don't care like what it pays.

35:15.14
Aaron
Yeah.

35:17.97
Seth Macey
I don't want to, I don't want to do that. And I don't, I'm maybe going to take some heat from this.

35:23.12
Aaron
Yeah. And I just don't.

35:26.20
Seth Macey
I don't want to be around real estate agents. So

35:29.29
Aaron
Yeah, that's fair.

35:30.83
Seth Macey
I'm not saying all real estate agents are.

35:31.52
Aaron
I don't think it, I don't think it pays.

35:33.70
Seth Macey
i'm just, that's not my thing.

35:35.17
Aaron
Have you heard, have you heard that? Do you know what it pays? i don't think it pays great. like for listing photos for real estate.

35:42.92
Seth Macey
My point is that if it paid well, I don't care. I'm not going to do it just to do it. I don't want to be miserable doing work. I want to feel like it's not work.

35:48.47
Aaron
Yeah.

35:49.96
Seth Macey
Camp stuff is not work.

35:50.42
Aaron
Yeah. Yeah.

35:52.80
Seth Macey
Because it's a place that is everything that I stand for. Kids tech free in nature, feet on the ground, water skiing, animals, fishing. like that's that I try to make that my life. So if I can document that and create things that make other kids get to experience that, that's not work. so

36:16.21
Aaron
Yep.

36:18.11
Seth Macey
And I've never had a client pay the same day an invoice was sent.

36:22.85
Aaron
Wow.

36:23.69
Seth Macey
Yeah.

36:24.85
Aaron
That's unheard of.

36:26.07
Seth Macey
It is unheard of. So like you said, you get those every one. Those are like one in 500, would say. and would say

36:32.49
Aaron
Mm-hmm. and And they're great and they keep going, you know, and knock on wood, it goes for a long time. And, but here's the thing. Here's another thing.

36:43.94
Aaron
You can't take, you can't take content creation and a good relationship with a company for granted. Let me explain a little bit where that's coming from.

36:55.16
Aaron
So first summer with Telefunken, I, my brain was on fire. Like I, it was endless. I i started from zero. It was, oh, I could do this with flowers. It's spring. Everything's blooming.

37:09.80
Aaron
Let me match up flowers or things that go together. Oh, a rosebush. Here's a red. Let me set that. Like my brain was flying Skittles.

37:18.13
Seth Macey
you

37:18.63
Aaron
That's a great thing. I'll throw them in the air. I'll catch some motion. Just on and on and on and on with different things. Oh, it's 4th of July. Let me get some sparklers, put them in the microphones. Oh, it's the Olympics. I'm going to actually light one on fire.

37:32.27
Aaron
yeah I'm going to get permission first, but I'm light one on fire on the track and and make it with the colors of the Olympic rings. Like, Ideas galore. This summer, I had a bit of writer's block and I did not produce nearly as much as I did last year.

37:48.23
Aaron
And going into the end of the summer where we had a call scheduled, I was a little bit nervous dialing in and feeling like I felt myself explaining and starting to talk

37:53.39
Seth Macey
Thank you.

37:59.69
Aaron
really fast and being like, Hey, I know, um the summer didn't come out as much as i did last summer. I was, I was having trouble with just coming up with new ideas. There's only so many things I can do. i i have some things coming up for fall that I had.

38:13.92
Aaron
And the guy was like, hold hold. Wait, wait, wait, wait. all right. First of all, let's, let's skip all that. You're doing fine. Uh, I have a whole list of things that we need. So I'm just going to email that to you and that should help you out.

38:26.34
Aaron
And I was like,

38:27.71
Seth Macey
He's just like, shut the fuck up.

38:29.53
Aaron
Yeah.

38:29.56
Seth Macey
Shut your mouth.

38:31.81
Aaron
Through the phone. He put his finger on my lips.

38:37.41
Seth Macey
Quit being so damn neurotic. Here's a list. Get it done.

38:40.74
Aaron
Yeah. I went, Oh, okay. That's great. Thank you. But, uh, you know, keeps going and keep working and don't take it for granted. Don't, don't ruin those ones by,

38:54.17
Aaron
not putting, yeah, coasting and and not putting your all into it.

38:54.38
Seth Macey
Coasting.

38:58.11
Aaron
And this summer definitely was like with travel and um I don't know what, ah just kind of brain block, maybe laziness a bit too of like, I, these ideas aren't as good as the ones I had last summer. So that's hard to like, keep it going, but here we are.

39:15.17
Aaron
ah They have, they have some combos that they need and some different things.

39:18.40
Seth Macey
Well, you get to a point where that brings up a good conversation. You get to a point, you made it sound like I need to top the idea. get to a point where you can't top the previous idea.

39:30.23
Aaron
Right. Right. right

39:32.55
Seth Macey
So it ends up, I think, from an artistic standpoint, to be artistically satisfied, it just needs to be different.

39:38.56
Aaron
Yeah, different. doesn't need to be way harder. Um, I mean, last year I was putting like hummingbird nectar into the things and waiting for a hummingbird to flow over it for hours.

39:51.14
Aaron
And I just, part of me didn't have that intensity in me this summer, uh, for certain things, because I was like, already, already did that. So what, how am I gonna, what would I have to sit for do to get something better?

40:04.80
Aaron
need a baldy.

40:05.05
Seth Macey
I have a 2026 Olympic idea for you instead of, yeah isn't there one?

40:07.75
Aaron
Nice. like 26. that winter games? Yeah.

40:14.57
Seth Macey
Oh, it's winter.

40:16.18
Aaron
It's probably winter.

40:16.89
Seth Macey
Okay. Then my idea won't work. I was going to say, you know how they hand the batons around the track, make it the mic, you know,

40:21.13
Aaron
Yeah. Yeah. That's good one. Yeah. Yeah.

40:28.99
Seth Macey
he's clicking his pen.

40:29.14
Aaron
That's a good one. I am. Uh, yeah. So, you know,

40:34.34
Seth Macey
So to summarize, be authentic. I think, don't ever think it.

40:38.09
Aaron
mm-hmm.

40:38.58
Seth Macey
Post your grid the way you want it to be. You can um showcase your content creation skills, content creation in the sense of, this is stuff I've made with the intent of marketing purposes and generating revenue for other businesses.

40:51.28
Seth Macey
ah You can do that elsewhere. You can do it on your Instagram, but by no means do you have to. ah You can you know have that ah that body of work that you're super proud of on your website and

40:55.82
Aaron
Right.

41:00.54
Seth Macey
And I think it's like we said, it's often beneficial to just stay true to what you are passionate and care about posting because ah people get curious. They go through your website, they find your personal page and they go, oh, wow, this person is a really unique individual and they have and other unique interests that perhaps I vibe with. right And that builds kind of a character in their mind of who you are.

41:20.13
Aaron
right

41:23.71
Seth Macey
And I think that's important.

41:27.01
Aaron
Yeah, ah agreed. couldn't Couldn't have said it better, and I'm not going to.

41:31.13
Seth Macey
All right. Well, thanks, Jake, for the question. We'll be back next week.

41:35.53
Aaron
Yeah, awesome.

41:36.72
Seth Macey
All right. And as always, if you like what you're hearing, feel free to leave a rating review on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Cost-free, effective way to support the show. Until next time, see ya.

41:43.79
Aaron
Take care. Bye-bye.