How to Be a Terrible Photographer - (Business Edition)

Ever wonder how to be the worst photographer ever? We’ve got you covered! In this sarcastic and spicy episode, we break down all the ways to fail miserably in the business of photography, like undercutting prices, ghosting clients, and over-promising timelines. Of course, we’re really here to help you do the opposite and thrive.

Expect to Learn:

• Why you should blame traffic, the weather, and your upset tummy for all your missed deadlines
• Why trusting strangers with no written contract is the key to a stress-free career
• Why you should deliver 50 mediocre photos when the client only asked for 15 good ones
• That clients who have constructive feedback simply have terrible taste
• Why long-term client relationships are overrated when you can just start fresh every time

Sponsors:

Thanks to WhiteWall for being our lead sponsor this episode! They're the top choice for photographers who want high-quality prints, with a variety of material options, and who want their work delivered fast in 9 days or less! Use the code TPM2025 at checkout for 15% off: https://www.whitewall.com/

Thanks also to the National Park Foundation for sponsoring today’s episode. Enter the Share the Experience photo contest for a chance to win $10,000 and prizes from Celestron, Historic Hotels of America, and YETI. The grand prize winner’s photo could be featured on the America the Beautiful—the National Parks and Federal Recreational Lands Annual Pass.

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Thanks for listening!
Go get shooting, go get editing, and stay focused.

@sethmacey
@mantis_photography
@thephotographermindset

Transcript

00:05.38
Seth Macey
Hey welcome back another episode of the Photographer Mindset Podcast. I'm Seth.

00:09.42
Aaron
And I'm Aaron.

00:10.51
Seth Macey
Today's episode is all about how to become the worst photographer possible.

00:17.20
Aaron
The worst.

00:18.16
Seth Macey
The worst, it's gonna be an ironic, sarcastic, spicy episodes. We're gonna break it into two parts. Part one is going to be from the business side, and part two is gonna be from the artistic side.

00:32.72
Seth Macey
I wrote a bunch of things down today. We're gonna say them, I'm gonna try and deliver them. As dry and sarcastically as I can, we're gonna riff. And obviously you do the opposite of what we're saying to be a good photographer in our humble opinion.

00:49.35
Seth Macey
What do you think?

00:51.44
Aaron
I think that is a it's a different idea. We haven't done something like this, and I like it because we're always looking for something something new and fresh. So let's give it a go, see what happens.

01:01.99
Seth Macey
All right. How to be the worst photographer ever from the business side of things.

01:02.67
Aaron
I don't know.

01:08.63
Seth Macey
Okay. The first thing you're going to want to do, you want to make sure that you undercut everybody in this business, every other photographer. You just want to undercut them completely on your price. You want to make sure you charge $40, okay?

01:25.57
Seth Macey
Stop, you're breaking my character. Charge $40 for 20 videos, okay? and You're going give them all the rights indefinitely for the remainder of time because, remember, you don't want to be paid fairly.

01:37.22
Seth Macey
ah You want to make sure it's a race to the bottom so that nobody gets paid well. And remember why you did this. You're in this to lose money.

01:44.39
Aaron
yeah yeah don't Yeah, don't forget that. there are standards for supply and demand, and you want to just bring those standards way down as fast as you possibly can for the rest of us.

01:54.14
Seth Macey
Rights.

01:57.76
Aaron
And make sure you get the job at all at any cost, because that's the most important thing, not setting up your potential future, not setting up a potential livelihood within your craft that you've chosen and working your way up to it. But you just want to bring the bar down so low that the rest of us quit because it's not a substantial wage, but you get all the jobs, yet still will need to work two or three other jobs to pay for rent, groceries, utilities, and you'll just be proud of of what you've accomplished.

02:35.19
Seth Macey
Yes. And we want to be just like just like gas stations where they're trying to they see across the street. Oh, $1.30. thirty Okay, let's I'm talking liters. I'm sure $1.30 in the U.S. would be incredible.

02:46.06
Aaron
Mm-hmm.

02:46.49
Seth Macey
Just a race to the bottom. But in all seriousness, we we'll flip this coin before we move on to the next points. You do everybody a disservice, I feel like, when you undercharge, right? We talked about this before.

02:58.81
Seth Macey
if everybody was better at charging fairly, and I feel like this is part of our duty maybe here on the show at times, if everybody was charging more fairly, then I think photographers would not... Their service wouldn't be...

03:16.63
Seth Macey
seen as less valuable is what often happens. We've talked about that before. And if you consider the community when you're pricing, you're doing everybody a proper service.

03:30.96
Seth Macey
um And that's all I'll say on that.

03:34.58
Aaron
Yeah, look, look at, yeah we we all have to get in and you can use, there's value in creating a portfolio. There's value in doing certain things, but again, don't sell the farm.

03:45.20
Aaron
Don't, don't do a ton of stuff. Get enough to create a deal with a local business, a local restaurant, portrait photography, whatever it is, do friends and family for a deal, but create a portfolio and then have a realistic view of your talent level or the product that you're able to deliver and then find out what the average And now with like chat GPT and some AI services, you can really ask some specific questions like what's the USA average for an hour of portrait photography and get a good range that would be

04:24.09
Aaron
whatever makes you feel comfortable. But I think some of that is surprising sometimes and we feel guilty charging that, but that's the business part of it.

04:33.45
Seth Macey
Absolutely. All right. Next one that kind of ties into this.

04:39.20
Seth Macey
Make sure you get walked all over because you desperately need the money. And don't realize, make sure you don't do this, don't realize that the sea is endless and that another bus comes every 15 minutes. So...

04:51.47
Seth Macey
so Just make sure you give away the farm and you do all these things because you need $400. four hundred dollars There's no way that there's other people or clients or businesses out there that will pay you fairly.

05:04.49
Seth Macey
Nope.

05:06.20
Aaron
Yeah. and And don't, don't adjust your deliverables to fit their budget. yeah It's their budget. That's, that's not their fault that that's their budget.

05:17.64
Aaron
That's our fault. So remember to adjust.

05:21.64
Seth Macey
Cater to that. Right.

05:22.93
Aaron
Yeah. Cater to it and still give them everything and don't adjust, you know, take that, take, take the abuse.

05:28.31
Seth Macey
Right.

05:31.63
Seth Macey
That makes sense.

05:32.00
Aaron
Uh,

05:32.07
Seth Macey
If they're like, oh, we only do, you know, exchanges for products and you had quoted $5,000, make sure you're like, oh, okay, im make sure you do your charity work, right?

05:41.17
Aaron
Yeah. And, and but beyond just even the, the picture, the negotiables in the beginning, uh, make sure that you do 17 rounds of edits, uh, and, uh, give a black and white version, a sepia version, a colored version, make sure you go back and then do different crops for every platform possible because they can't, they can't crop a photo.

05:42.40
Seth Macey
Yeah.

06:10.08
Aaron
ah differently for different things. So make sure that you do that and take that extra time and continue to just really take it and not adjust any price. So it's, it's just your, your, your lowest price possible and then do as much as you possibly can make sure.

06:30.34
Seth Macey
Yes. Reduce yourself to serfdom. ah

06:33.79
Aaron
Yeah.

06:34.46
Seth Macey
Great. this is I'm loving this format already.

06:39.14
Seth Macey
Yeah, but be be okay with saying no to things. Be okay with saying, hey, that add-on costs this much. This is why. ah Here's what's typical. Here's what I usually do.

06:51.53
Seth Macey
I feel like this tendency that we've just sarcastically described can be a big symptom of people who struggle with people-pleasing. So if you're one of those people, this is an opportunity for you to... I think this is sort of low stakes, set some boundaries because usually it's via email or text, right?

07:06.86
Aaron
Yeah. and And we've talked about this, be aware of the artist versus the businessman is we're, we're looking for different things. We're looking for different validations ah mainly.

07:20.33
Aaron
And when you combine the two, you become a photographer that is creating a business for themselves. you start to realize this quickly that there, there's a lot of value in someone choosing you and wanting your work and liking your work.

07:32.58
Aaron
And we tend to really appreciate that and still want to please, we still want them to like our work. So we end up sacrificing on the financial aspect of jobs because i think that first need comes first in our hierarchy of, ah validation more than

07:49.29
Seth Macey
ah

07:54.33
Aaron
money ah

07:55.18
Seth Macey
I see what you're saying. I was wondering where you're going. the So you're saying the the dichotomy between being an artist and being a business Sure.

08:03.30
Aaron
and Business. Yeah. So the business on the other side of this table, when you're pitching their job is bottom line.

08:04.25
Seth Macey
tough feet yeah

08:09.34
Aaron
Their job is i want to get the most for as little as possible. That's all business. Like what's my overhead? What's my return on investment? The more they spend, the less they're going to get back in return.

08:21.78
Aaron
So they don't want to spend a lot, but it is, it is valuable to them.

08:23.45
Seth Macey
sure

08:26.35
Aaron
So it's finding that balance where both people are happy.

08:29.56
Seth Macey
Yeah, but even more so what you're saying is if the artist in you really wants to be liked or have their art liked, you may have you could possibly have the tendency to ah give way more than you need to or say yes to too many things or essentially get walked all over because you you're saying you're putting that need to be, to have your art liked perhaps supersedes the business mentality you need to have.

08:44.60
Aaron
Yeah.

08:51.93
Aaron
Listen, it's yeah people pleasing. Exactly. So in the example, I hand over 10 photos.

08:55.51
Seth Macey
Right.

08:58.23
Aaron
The people go, Oh my goodness. Like I love these. I am like, good job done. And let's wrap this up.

09:05.74
Seth Macey
Yep. Sure.

09:07.18
Aaron
You pay me. We're good. You're happy. I feel good leaving that thing, that, that project. If I hand over 10 photos and they're like, ah, this would not, was I was expecting.

09:18.23
Aaron
There is a tendency for me to be like, well, here's a video I did also. Here's some drone extra work that I put in. Here's ah extra 10 photos. Now you have 20 for the same price that you, now are you happy? Now are you happy?

09:30.91
Seth Macey
sure

09:31.03
Aaron
It's that kind of feeling of like, i want I want to get to that part where they're happy with my work and I will sacrifice my time, ah the finances, what have you to get to that point.

09:44.59
Seth Macey
Yeah, that's a fine line. That's ah it's a bit of an art to figure out where how do I make sure that they're 100% satisfied, but that there's not the goalposts don't just keep moving and I get taken advantage of.

09:47.69
Aaron
Yeah, it's tough. Yeah.

09:58.08
Seth Macey
And I feel like if you cover the scope of work and you've even offered a revision or two and they're still not happy...

10:13.82
Seth Macey
It may be them problem.

10:15.80
Aaron
yeah

10:15.89
Seth Macey
You know?

10:17.18
Aaron
Yeah.

10:18.60
Seth Macey
So...

10:18.78
Aaron
Yeah. There's, there's, there's a couple of different types of businesses and, and I've run into this with playing out gigs music wise. I've, and it's similar art, art, you're giving their, your art to a place to entertain people.

10:34.60
Aaron
They're trying to get people in to make money. So it's a similar sort of thing ah with photography. um There's, There's businesses that really aren't maybe in the position or things are tight that don't want to spend anything more than they have to.

10:52.47
Aaron
And those are tough to deal with sometimes more than like an established business that has a budget that understands what they're looking for, understands that you're coming in to do a certain job and not expecting because we're paying you to do this.

11:10.27
Aaron
it's the best in music when yeah I call a ah restaurant or bar and they're like, yeah, you can play. How many people are you going to be bringing? ah Like, do you have a following?

11:20.82
Aaron
That's a huge, yeah, huge, huge red flag to me because it's like, oh, you're really nervous about paying the money and you want to make sure that we're bringing people that basically will front the bill.

11:21.14
Seth Macey
You're like, going to bring me, my guitarist, my singer and my drummer.

11:36.16
Seth Macey
Yeah.

11:36.75
Aaron
ah So it's like, ah, that's that's that one's a tough one.

11:40.84
Seth Macey
You know what else is a red flag? Bonus is when you maybe not always, but often is can you break this down into line items for me?

11:50.95
Aaron
Yeah.

11:51.81
Seth Macey
I saw a funny meme where it was like, it's 2000 for me to do the job and it's zero for me to not do it.

11:59.35
Aaron
Yeah. Yeah.

12:02.15
Seth Macey
So,

12:02.17
Aaron
That's what he, after that question, right? Can you break this down?

12:05.01
Seth Macey
yeah exactly here's my line item zero to not do it two thousand to do it uh yeah just be mindful of that because it it it demonstrates a very tight budget which i understand but it can be a tendency to like start doing some wrist scratching well you delivered it like a day late so you know um okay moving on how to be the worst photographer ever business edition

12:05.13
Aaron
Yeah.

12:22.77
Aaron
Yeah.

12:30.43
Seth Macey
All right, so the next thing you're going to really want to do if you want to accomplish this feat is you're going to want to you charge extra for every single little thing. That's what i'm saying is you got to make sure that your client fronts that $2 coffee bill.

12:46.85
Seth Macey
you know Or the extra $4 of Dropbox storage space you needed to deliver their files. You're going to make sure they see that $4 and that $2 line item on there because it's important that you know you don't pay for anything.

13:07.92
Aaron
Yeah. And make sure if you put in 300 for travel, ah you are, you're calculating every mile and every gas fill up.

13:16.66
Seth Macey
What's your mileage?

13:17.94
Aaron
Yeah. Put your mileage and and then adjust above. Here's the thing. a never Never adjust down. Maybe the 300 travel was really cost you 220.

13:29.97
Aaron
Don't adjust down. Don't give them a discount on that. Make sure though that you do go up if it's if it's over your budget by any amount. Make sure that you do go up and nickel and dime them for every single thing.

13:41.60
Aaron
ah If they ask for a re-edit and it took 15 minutes, make sure you charge hourly. and, and put that in a nice invoice and then charge for the creation of the invoice as well, because yeah, because time is money and we all know that.

13:52.84
Seth Macey
Your quantity of hours says 2.36 hours.

13:59.62
Aaron
Uh, no, but I, I think in, in serious terms,

14:02.03
Seth Macey
No, let's keep riffing. Let's keep riffing. You want your you want your mileage to um you know vary with gas prices, overnight prices, right?

14:09.42
Aaron
Hmm. Hmm.

14:11.19
Seth Macey
So like when they get the invoice, it could be different from the following day.

14:14.82
Aaron
Yeah. and you were hungry for your fourth meal and did DoorDash to the place. There is a huge fee. Make sure you put that in there. um So yeah, just everything, everything.

14:25.27
Seth Macey
Okay, now we're done.

14:26.88
Aaron
Yeah. You left your shampoo, your favorite shampoo in their shower, ah charge them for that because someone's going to be using it. I bet.

14:34.35
Seth Macey
Oh, Airbnb. Yeah.

14:35.46
Aaron
Yeah. Airbnb or wherever that's, that was where my mind went.

14:36.76
Seth Macey
That's right.

14:39.55
Aaron
Yeah.

14:39.87
Seth Macey
Or you're already paying a cleaning fee for the Airbnb, so just trash it, right?

14:43.77
Aaron
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Don't, don't worry about the trash. so that Someone will take it. Right. Uh, yeah, I, I think within reason be be generous. Uh, you're getting paid for the job to me when you are, when you're doing something, you're agreeing that there, there will be costs and hopefully your prices are right. I think that is, that's more on you have the,

15:10.52
Aaron
and it takes time, but the wherewithal to price correctly, where you feel like you are covered, you feel like almost no matter what happens, I'm going to be okay with this end result.

15:20.65
Aaron
If this is what I hand over and this is what I get paid, I will be, I'll be good.

15:21.09
Seth Macey
yeah

15:27.32
Aaron
I don't You don't want to feel like you're getting just your foot in the door with a really cheap price and then getting, you're getting pissed off that it's taking you a long time or the travel is far or, Oh my, I, I did, I put $200 worth of gas in and only getting, yeah, I'm only getting 500.

15:42.48
Seth Macey
Yeah, you want cushioning like a miscellaneous category, right? Hmm.

15:45.67
Aaron
Like this is now I'm annoyed and it's like, well, that's on you. That's bad math, you know? So make sure your math's math.

15:51.70
Seth Macey
Yeah.

15:55.06
Seth Macey
Yeah, absolutely. And understand that there's some small things at the cost of doing business. Like you said, I think add a little comfort. If you think it's going to be this much, put a little put a little buffer zone um so that you can go to Subway and not have to invoice for it.

16:03.48
Aaron
Yeah.

16:08.19
Aaron
Yeah, exactly.

16:09.45
Seth Macey
You know what i mean?

16:11.07
Aaron
Doom.

16:11.76
Seth Macey
like it. I like it. All right. have so many to choose from. I'm trying to be like, Trying to give good variety.

16:22.61
Aaron
Good

16:24.05
Seth Macey
Mm-hmm. Okay. Okay.

16:28.69
Seth Macey
How to be the worst photographer ever. Another point. So make sure that you understand that anyone who gives you constructive feedback or criticism...

16:44.49
Seth Macey
is completely wrong.

16:46.05
Aaron
Yeah.

16:46.89
Seth Macey
Needs their head checked.

16:48.84
Aaron
Yeah.

16:49.08
Seth Macey
Has no taste.

16:51.24
Aaron
Assholes.

16:52.13
Seth Macey
It's just, yeah. And they're, it's a personal attack.

16:56.19
Aaron
Oh, they hate you and your work.

16:57.45
Seth Macey
They hate you.

16:58.35
Aaron
Your work is crap.

17:00.23
Seth Macey
Yes. Uh, they're definitely not trying to make sure that they get what they paid for.

17:01.53
Aaron
Yep.

17:07.32
Seth Macey
ah they definitely don't have the right to do that. So, um,

17:11.57
Aaron
No, yeah, with any critique, I would fire off oh a strongly worded email ah letting them know how wrong they are and, yeah, how inappropriate it is in this business to offer any sort of feedback.

17:20.87
Seth Macey
Yeah, I just say, what are you, stupid? You know?

17:26.39
Seth Macey
Yes.

17:28.05
Aaron
And they, i don't i don't know what side of the bed,

17:28.19
Seth Macey
Yes.

17:31.03
Seth Macey
Voice your offense. Yeah, voice your offense. I am offended.

17:35.23
Aaron
what side of the bed they woke up on, but obviously they are not,

17:38.01
Seth Macey
Yeah.

17:40.39
Aaron
they just chose violence today and they're coming after us and and that's bullshit yeah

17:41.83
Seth Macey
Dear client. Based on your recent email I'm typing, it appears that you seem to have no artistic taste. You don't have any sense of what your business needs.

17:57.37
Seth Macey
I do.

17:59.56
Aaron
yeah yeah how dare you nice you tell him

17:59.56
Seth Macey
Idiot. Seth. I just sent that off. I didn't.

18:08.69
Aaron
No, it hurts when someone ah maybe says, I'm not pleased with this or I'm not crazy about how this turned out. And you have to be like, oh, and take a deep breath, take a walk, take a minute.

18:22.17
Aaron
Do not reply right away.

18:24.16
Seth Macey
No, 24 hours at least.

18:24.54
Aaron
ah Yeah, give it a minute.

18:26.51
Seth Macey
if If you're upset.

18:27.95
Aaron
Yeah, give it a minute. Think about it. Try to try to really unpack the layers and. see it for what it is. Now, at the end of the day, you might be like, I really don't agree. Like I, ah really like this thing. However, they are the paying client.

18:49.08
Aaron
And I think I always default to, okay they want to be satisfied with what, they're getting. And it's, if it's an artistic choice or a musical choice, I mean, there's nothing worse than you do a video and they like, I love it, but the music is, uh, I'm not a fan of the music.

19:08.66
Seth Macey
Oh, and everything's timed to the music.

19:10.28
Aaron
Yeah. So it's like, well, basically we're starting over. So that's really annoying, but it's, it's those things like you can't really argue that it's like, all right, they're not a fan of the music. Like, what am I supposed to do?

19:22.39
Aaron
I gotta, I gotta make this happen unless they, it's,

19:25.84
Seth Macey
I've been lucky with that. I've run the gauntlet with that and haven't gotten burned. I think my music, no, my musical taste is just probably the best there is.

19:30.29
Aaron
that's a tough one.

19:34.08
Seth Macey
I think.

19:34.93
Aaron
Definitely. Definitely. ah But yeah, I think take it, It's not a personal attack. um There is a line here where, like we said earlier, there might be no pleasing someone.

19:43.10
Seth Macey
Yeah.

19:47.99
Aaron
And that's, that's a tough one. And you can get a sense of like, they're, they're trying to make an issue out of not a lot to either get a deal or get stuff for free. You got to be aware of that possibility, but there's just a good chance that you were putting an artistic spin on something for,

20:06.89
Aaron
again, business people or family and friends or portraits or a wedding or an Airbnb. And they're like, ah, this doesn't, this doesn't fit our, our grid.

20:17.73
Aaron
This doesn't fit our style necessarily.

20:19.91
Seth Macey
Yeah.

20:20.33
Aaron
Or, uh, you said there was going a lot of lifestyle photos, but there's not, or the, the sky is really flat. Is there anything we can do with that? Can we do a sky replacement? Um,

20:31.52
Aaron
there's a million different things that the client goes like, Oh, we paid good money for this. And I'm not a hundred percent pleased. You got to just take it ah for what it is and see if you can make things better.

20:44.63
Seth Macey
Yeah. Here's the strange thing too. When, What bothers me sometimes is, and this hasn't happened a ton, but I've heard about this. I think maybe has happened with you a couple times, is somebody hires you to photograph a set or a product or whatever, and you deliver in your style, and they're like, oh, well, we want it more this way.

21:11.98
Seth Macey
And you think to yourself, well, you hired me for me. right? You're not hiring me to be like somebody else or to to be like your brand.

21:22.07
Aaron
Right.

21:23.77
Seth Macey
But at the same time, sometimes obviously you don't want to turn that ah that that business away, right? Sometimes maybe you do have to try and Maybe more so keep your style in a way that fits their aesthetic or what they want to remain in terms of a brand a brand image, right?

21:47.20
Seth Macey
So, I mean, a client I just wrapped up working for today, in our and in their initial email to me, or discovery call or whatever it was,

21:58.18
Seth Macey
I really like this style of I forget their actual words of smoke. It was like smokiness or surrealism or something. They were referring to a specific image. So the entire time throughout that project, I'm not going to be I'm not going to try to be something different. I'm going to be me. I'm going to be that look that they said they liked from the beginning.

22:18.19
Seth Macey
Right. I think that's just something to keep in mind.

22:22.91
Aaron
Yeah. ah Again, like most things, this comes down to really good pre-shoot communication and having questionnaires, developing questionnaires, learning from mistakes, learning from trip ups, learning from landmines and being able to mitigate those on your future goals.

22:30.53
Seth Macey
Sure.

22:45.14
Aaron
endeavors, like being able to be like, Oh, that, that one burned me last time. I'm going to make sure that doesn't happen. So I'm going to ask the question very directly. Hey, this is my portfolio of X, Y, and Z. This is my style. Is this what you're looking for?

22:58.90
Aaron
Are you looking for something else?

23:01.55
Seth Macey
Yeah, what about my portfolio stands out to you? Is there anything particular you like, right?

23:05.44
Aaron
Yeah. Or asking them to storyboard or what, um give me examples of photos you like or are competing company that, um, you really like their aesthetic and their Instagram or whatever it is.

23:06.14
Seth Macey
and i That I can...

23:11.91
Seth Macey
Yes.

23:18.39
Aaron
And let me, let me take a look.

23:18.92
Seth Macey
Yep. Because then you have a foundation to go back on if there's disagreement.

23:20.14
Aaron
So.

23:23.30
Seth Macey
Well, actually, you told me to do it this way, and I have.

23:23.47
Aaron
Right.

23:26.71
Aaron
Right.

23:27.45
Seth Macey
Right? And it's for them as well, in the same sense.

23:30.26
Aaron
Yeah.

23:31.25
Seth Macey
Okay. The next thing I would do, if I was trying to be one of the worst photographers ever, God, this sounds so harsh. It's okay, though. I would make sure, and this talks about over this is back to our over-delivering thing, I would make sure that I delivered ton of images, so maybe we talked about 15. I'm going to give them 50, okay? I'm going blow them away with 50. Okay.

23:55.67
Seth Macey
Now, I only have probably like 10 really, really good ones. Sorry, contractors for 15. I have 15 really, really good ones. And the other 35, my math is right there, are going to be, they're okay.

24:11.51
Seth Macey
They're mediocre. Right? I'm going to give them all 50. and instead of just giving them those 15 really, really good ones that meets expectations, I'm going to give them all 50, blow them away, and I'm going to just totally dilute the quality of my folder so that those really good ones don't stand out anymore, and they kind of just maybe ah maybe i just sync to the lowest quality image in all in that entire set.

24:38.89
Seth Macey
I'm going to make sure I do that.

24:41.75
Aaron
Yeah, fall. We suggest falling for the anxiety of, again, being liked. I think this is where this comes from. And 15 good ones, but i'm gonna I don't want them to say anything negative. So I'm going to give 50.

24:56.60
Aaron
And it just brings down the average of the photo. They get lost in the shuffle. This has happened to me.

25:03.24
Seth Macey
I know it has.

25:03.39
Aaron
ah where i then, i i kind of just had to tease it out. I said, hey, well, I don't remember the exact numbers, but we'll use your numbers.

25:13.88
Aaron
Hey, we said 15 edited photos. I did hand in 50. um You aren't 100% pleased, but let me let me tease out the ones that I love the most, that I feel like you can use with the most benefit.

25:27.90
Aaron
And I made two separate folders, extras and top 15. And they wrote back like, oh, wow, i i see what you're i see I see what you mean. Like, those are great.

25:40.31
Aaron
That is what we asked for. Thanks for the extra. Like the the tune completely switched compared to them all being in the same folder and kind of going through them.

25:45.58
Seth Macey
yes

25:50.76
Aaron
And there's certain photos that you sometimes want to include that, of course, they're not great. in terms of like, wow, that's an amazing folder, but it might be a little detail piece of a place or a product or whatever it is that like you could use in a store.

26:01.93
Seth Macey
yep

26:04.80
Aaron
You could use at some point you can use it in a carousel, but it's not like a hero shot. But then if you do have 15 really good shots to be able to separate those out and be like, look at, look at these bangers because these are good.

26:18.43
Aaron
And this is what I intended to shoot.

26:18.98
Seth Macey
Yes.

26:19.91
Aaron
All the other stuff was extra. I think it comes from like a nervousness to

26:22.38
Seth Macey
Yeah.

26:24.96
Aaron
I want to blow them away. But sometimes by doing that, I shot myself in the foot that time. That was that like, I'm going to, I'm going to give them an extra 35. And then it, they were like, Oh, these aren't that great.

26:38.31
Aaron
Thanks for the extras.

26:38.47
Seth Macey
Yeah, absolutely. I've been thinking about this. You know what? it The perfect analogy. I already mentioned Subway in this episode. It's exactly like going and getting a Subway sandwich. Okay.

26:50.28
Seth Macey
I say that as the person ordering the sandwich, you know, I want turkey and tomato and lettuce and cheese. So person behind the counter goes, okay, we're going give you turkey, lettuce, tomato, and cheese. And just to go a little bit above and beyond, we're going give you pickles.

27:08.30
Seth Macey
We're going to give you shredded carrot. We're going to give you jalapeno peppers. And you're like, okay, well, all the things that I want are on the sandwich, but now it's just, it's, it looks gross.

27:18.47
Aaron
yeah yeah thanks but no thanks

27:22.68
Seth Macey
Whereas your analogy is make the sandwich the way it's wanted and here's a baggie of extra stuff you can try.

27:30.56
Aaron
Or do you do you want a few extra toppings on me?

27:30.80
Seth Macey
Should you please? Yeah.

27:33.78
Aaron
Yeah, exactly.

27:34.36
Seth Macey
Yeah. Exactly.

27:36.44
Aaron
So good one.

27:36.48
Seth Macey
Okay. So don't don't give a gross Subway sandwich to somebody. Give them what they ask for.

27:43.31
Aaron
Yeah.

27:45.43
Seth Macey
All right. Make sure that you only have verbal contracts. Okay. Or if you want to take it if you want to you know really step things up, just don't even have one at all.

27:57.30
Aaron
Dull.

27:57.98
Seth Macey
Yeah, just don't even don't even bother. You should just trust everybody, and you should just realize that everybody's recollection of what was said and agreed upon is going to be the same.

28:12.62
Seth Macey
Right? And there's going to be no disputing it.

28:14.40
Aaron
Yeah. Yeah.

28:16.71
Seth Macey
There is definitely some absolute truth that lives in both parties' heads.

28:23.04
Aaron
yeah

28:23.25
Seth Macey
So just avoid having that written down of what's expected from both ends. You don't need to know what they agreed to pay you. They don't need to know what you agreed to give them. You just trust each other because ah that's what strangers do.

28:37.40
Aaron
Yeah, I personally don't have time for contracts, so ah we just kind of both wing it. And based on a ah chain of sloppy emails over the last eight months, we kind of figure it out as we go.

28:50.96
Aaron
and there's usually zero conflict or disagreements on price or deliverables. We just kind of, like I said, and just go for it, wing it.

29:01.20
Seth Macey
Yes, and you have you have no meetings.

29:02.01
Aaron
Yeah.

29:03.72
Seth Macey
don't you know Things are busy. Don't schedule a meeting. Don't ask all those questions that you need to know ah that could mitigate a lot of problems or add some clarity to the scope of work ah because you're afraid of overwhelming them with questions.

29:09.40
Aaron
Yeah.

29:12.81
Aaron
Yeah.

29:17.35
Seth Macey
Don't have those meetings. They're a waste of time.

29:19.79
Aaron
You know, make it up as you go.

29:20.04
Seth Macey
um just be left to you yeah Just be left to your own devices. Assume that you know what you need to shoot and that the money will be in your account.

29:29.74
Aaron
Yeah, I gotta say in this day and age, which is pretty recent with AI again, and ah use chat GPT occasionally, I had two emails back and forth from a client.

29:43.74
Aaron
My prompt to them was, I'm just curious, like what vibe you really want me to share at your, at your cabin? Uh, what are some things that are important to you? What's the story behind the cabin?

29:56.46
Aaron
Give me a sense of what you're looking for. And they wrote me two, ah two emails back with some great details and ideas and thoughts and where the cabin's named after or what the cabin's named after and what its purpose was and all this stuff.

30:11.22
Aaron
And I went to chat GPT and, After having said, okay, these are the deliverables I think I can do for this price. I copied all three of those emails and my deliverables.

30:24.02
Aaron
And I said, Hey, out of this, can you make a contract ah for a simple photography contract for an upcoming shoot? And it did an amazing job at spitting out deliverables, how many photos.

30:37.75
Seth Macey
Oh, yeah. Yes.

30:38.77
Aaron
And it was easy as pie. And then I emailed them and said like, Hey, here's a simple contract. Uh, just so we're on the same page before i make the long trip out there. Um, just, you want to you want to know that you guys are at least trying to be on the same page when you go into a shoot and emails or one phone call and you're just kind of winging it again is just not the best

30:56.07
Seth Macey
yes

31:04.38
Aaron
idea It works out sometimes, but not all the time. And you just want to be able to go back and be like, well, you're mad that I gave you 10, but you agreed that we said 10, you know?

31:16.35
Seth Macey
Yeah. Yep.

31:17.41
Aaron
So.

31:18.18
Seth Macey
I like that there was zero transition between sarcasm and satire to actual helpful advice. I was sitting there waiting if there was going to be a punchline as you were describing your email thread.

31:29.68
Aaron
No, I just got into it.

31:29.96
Seth Macey
Like you go through this whole thing and then you're like, yeah, I didn't email them back or I didn't send them anything.

31:34.18
Aaron
Yeah, and then I block them.

31:35.65
Seth Macey
Yes. And then I blocked them.

31:36.72
Aaron
Because I'm not talking, I don't have time to talk about contracts.

31:38.62
Seth Macey
Yes, that would have been great. But i'm I'm happy that people are going to have to decipher what's irony and what's not.

31:47.31
Aaron
yeah What's what? Too dry. Maybe I'm too dry.

31:52.04
Seth Macey
Oh, no, it's good.

31:53.62
Aaron
Yeah.

31:53.73
Seth Macey
In your Vince Vaughn era. All right. Moving on.

31:59.31
Aaron
Moving on.

32:00.69
Seth Macey
You're going to want to make sure, you're still in an attempt to be a terrible photographer a business sense, You're to sure that you blame every other factor other than yourself poor for poor performance, right?

32:16.09
Seth Macey
You're going to want to make sure that you let the client know that the model sucked. um You were late because traffic was bad, not because you snoozed through three alarms. Yeah.

32:32.92
Seth Macey
You know, you're going to want make sure you tell them that Internet in Canada is bad. That's why you can transfer them things, their files on time.

32:43.67
Seth Macey
And what else are you going to want to do for performance-wise?

32:48.23
Aaron
Yeah, just in general, it's never your fault.

32:51.40
Seth Macey
Yes, that's that's entirely right. never, never ever.

32:55.00
Aaron
Just remember that and look for external things to blame. The weather, ah traffic, as you said, food poisoning, upset tummy, ah just everything under the sun that just alleviates you from any sort of responsibility.

33:08.86
Seth Macey
Yes.

33:16.38
Seth Macey
That's right. You want your client to go home and be like, oh man, I just, they had the worst day.

33:17.21
Aaron
the The model's

33:23.06
Seth Macey
Um, you know, I think I'm no, no, no.

33:25.21
Aaron
it's not your fault. You forgot the batteries at home. You happened to be charging them.

33:29.51
Seth Macey
no no

33:31.21
Aaron
You were prepared. You just didn't put them in your bag because someone who won't be named move the bag, uh, when they were vacuuming.

33:39.48
Seth Macey
Yes.

33:41.04
Aaron
So it's not, it's not your fault for being unprepared. It just a unlucky sequence of events that just created this, uh, this bad situation, you know?

33:51.91
Seth Macey
yeah I mean, if they hadn't booked the shoot so early in the morning, you maybe would have had like more time to prep.

33:55.91
Aaron
Yeah.

33:57.06
Seth Macey
And so it's kind of there.

33:58.40
Aaron
The communication wasn't there.

33:59.95
Seth Macey
It's kind of their fault. Like, why did they book that for nine?

34:01.76
Aaron
It's always their fault.

34:04.38
Seth Macey
Why did they book that for 9am? That's pretty inconsiderate.

34:07.94
Aaron
Yeah. And they could have asked, they could have communicated better with everything. um So it's not, it's not you that wasn't communicating or asking questions that had missing links. It's, it's on them.

34:18.21
Seth Macey
Yeah, I mean, if I can email, they can email, right?

34:20.67
Aaron
Exactly.

34:21.49
Seth Macey
Yeah.

34:24.28
Seth Macey
I don't even think we need to do the counter.

34:26.16
Aaron
and No, you get it.

34:29.03
Seth Macey
Have some accountability.

34:31.61
Aaron
Yeah, own it.

34:32.54
Seth Macey
Own it. Always.

34:34.29
Aaron
That's easy to deal with.

34:35.66
Seth Macey
Easy. I would much rather deal with somebody who was like, I screwed up.

34:40.30
Aaron
Yeah, i screwed up and this is how I'm going to try to fix it.

34:40.42
Seth Macey
As opposed to. Like, when have you ever been like, oh, oh, like, oh, okay, yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, within reason, but.

34:49.82
Aaron
Right.

34:52.32
Aaron
Yeah.

34:54.64
Seth Macey
Okay. Another one. Which you're going to want to make sure you do. Is you're going to over promise on your timelines amount of photos that you're going to deliver. So you're going to say going to have you 800 by tomorrow morning less than 24 hours. Okay.

35:16.61
Seth Macey
They're going to go and check their email. There's not to be anything there. ah they're going to check every day for two months, and then there's going to be an email from you to a Dropbox folder or Google Drive, ah and there's going eight photos in it.

35:35.72
Seth Macey
And um they'll be really excited about that.

35:41.05
Seth Macey
So make sure that you really, really shoot for the moon, and then just completely under-deliver. Don't by any means... Give reasonable timelines or reasonable amount of deliverables.

35:56.53
Seth Macey
ah Don't do that. Don't give people realistic expectations because you're afraid of upsetting them. You know, nobody ever likes when you do exactly what you say you're going to do.

36:03.81
Aaron
Yeah.

36:07.69
Aaron
No, that's surprising.

36:07.84
Seth Macey
So really disappoint people.

36:11.49
Aaron
You got to keep them on your toes. yeah That's the bottom line.

36:12.88
Seth Macey
Yes. Make life exciting for people, right?

36:16.54
Aaron
Yeah. Don't know yourself. don't know that you've never ever finished a project of editing within one week's time. ah So make sure you make sure you promise that you can deliver within it just to secure the, this is about it's about lying. It's about securing the job.

36:36.10
Aaron
Like just say whatever you have to say to secure the job and then ask questions later. Like that that would be my advice and being how to be the worst

36:43.81
Seth Macey
Sure.

36:45.90
Aaron
business photographer there is. Just secure the job over over promise how many deliverables you're going to get, how quickly it's going to be done, how easy it's going to be done, the resources that you don't need from them, and just you know make it happen and um slowly, one by one, start to untangle the mess that you're going to have when they they come knocking and asking when things are due or how many did we...

37:10.03
Seth Macey
Yes.

37:14.26
Aaron
How many did we say we're going to do?

37:16.25
Seth Macey
800. Yeah.

37:17.20
Aaron
Yeah. Well, we have eight.

37:18.10
Seth Macey
yeah

37:18.85
Aaron
So I'm just curious where are our wires crossed.

37:19.36
Seth Macey
Not even raw. It's like edited.

37:25.59
Seth Macey
Yeah.

37:26.74
Aaron
Yeah. So be realistic.

37:28.21
Seth Macey
Yeah.

37:29.60
Aaron
Give yourself more time over, over deliver from an under promise.

37:30.95
Seth Macey
Yes.

37:35.57
Aaron
Um, my next gig is I'm planning on doing it. I think I can get it done within, a day or two, but my deliverable is three to four weeks just to give myself space.

37:45.81
Seth Macey
Sure.

37:48.68
Aaron
And then there'll be very surprised, hopefully in a good way. Like, Oh, you're done within a week. Wow. Awesome.

37:54.58
Seth Macey
Yeah, that's still a significant amount of time where they're like, oh, it's some effort went into this, but it's early.

37:56.69
Aaron
Yeah.

37:59.23
Seth Macey
You don't want to turn those around in a day. People be like, we paid 10 grand for these. so

38:03.24
Aaron
Yeah. Right.

38:04.07
Seth Macey
It only took you in an evening, right?

38:05.61
Aaron
Yeah. Right.

38:06.51
Seth Macey
So that's a bit of that art.

38:06.90
Aaron
That's good point.

38:07.79
Seth Macey
That's a bit of that ah dance again, right?

38:09.98
Aaron
Yeah. That's good point.

38:10.99
Seth Macey
You promise three to four weeks and you do a week. Like a week of work is still a substantial amount of time.

38:15.06
Aaron
Yeah, yeah.

38:16.20
Seth Macey
for for people to be so you know pleasantly surprised.

38:19.54
Aaron
Yes, sir.

38:20.66
Seth Macey
All right. Next thing you're going want to do if you want to contribute to being terrible, if a terrible business photographer, um do one and done. So you're always needing to find new clients. There's nothing more fun than having to find new business and saying to hell with you to repeat customers or relationships. so Who needs them?

38:41.03
Seth Macey
I want new, fresh, potential dark horses that don't pay or are difficult to deal with.

38:46.78
Aaron
Yeah.

38:48.70
Seth Macey
I'm not interested in long-term relationships. Uh, I'm more interested in volume and making, life more difficult for myself. So I'm never going to find, uh, or ask or inquire about future projects, uh, with somebody I've already done work for, how we can take things to the next level because, um, you know, that's just, that's just, that's just too rational for me.

39:12.56
Aaron
Yeah. There's nothing more difficult and frustrating than having a repeat client. Like they already know you.

39:20.77
Seth Macey
Yeah.

39:22.88
Aaron
already have your bank account where they can just transfer money. You already have a relationship with their accounting firm. Like you, you know, the relationship in terms of deliverables and quality of work, that stuff is boring.

39:37.58
Seth Macey
Yeah.

39:38.39
Aaron
Uh, get Get out there. Burn bridges.

39:42.58
Seth Macey
Introduce some crazy...

39:42.64
Aaron
Demand everything. Do everything we said before this moment and nickel and dime them. Don't over deliver, under deliver.

39:54.08
Aaron
ah Yeah, just over promise. Don't keep your timelines. Just keep finding and then start over. Just keep starting over, building relationships.

40:03.23
Seth Macey
Repeat that process. Yes.

40:04.87
Aaron
Yeah, repeat, rinse and repeat.

40:05.40
Seth Macey
It will go well.

40:06.97
Aaron
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's, there's, again, there's nothing beneficial to having a client that keeps giving you work, where you can just kind of chug along and collect a paycheck and have good relationships.

40:19.88
Seth Macey
Yeah. Yeah.

40:22.57
Seth Macey
Yeah, don't include in emails that you're you're very much someone who is interested in fostering long-term relationships beyond your first project.

40:23.71
Aaron
Boring.

40:31.83
Seth Macey
Don't mention that. Tell them that you you're very much somebody who just does one and dones. They will respond well to that. They're going be like great. We want to find a new photographer as well for each project.

40:44.23
Aaron
Yeah. And get comfortable.

40:46.21
Seth Macey
Yeah. Yeah.

40:48.78
Aaron
Don't, don't stretch it. Don't give them new ideas of like,

40:52.24
Seth Macey
Yes, ghosts! That's right.

40:53.81
Aaron
Yeah, just coast until you guys kind of mutually ghost each other. um

40:58.37
Seth Macey
Sure.

40:59.46
Aaron
Don't suggest, hey have a great idea for the holidays coming up with your product. Hey, I have i have this video idea. I have this series we could do Any of this interest to you? Don't keep pursuing it.

41:12.21
Seth Macey
ah Don't be ridiculous.

41:12.37
Aaron
I mean...

41:12.97
Seth Macey
They might say no.

41:14.40
Aaron
Yeah, i mean, you you already have a contact.

41:14.44
Seth Macey
Then, like...

41:16.60
Aaron
You already have an email. You already have someone that and you have their ear. like why why would you utilize that? I would much rather try that with 10,000 strangers and see if one replies.

41:29.59
Aaron
It's more exciting. Definitely more exciting.

41:34.10
Seth Macey
ah Oh, you make it hard to keep make it hard to keep character.

41:35.03
Aaron
I held the skit the whole time.

41:38.49
Seth Macey
Yeah. It'd be fun to make it video series like that.

41:40.91
Aaron
Oh, man.

41:43.83
Aaron
yeah

41:45.22
Seth Macey
That's great, though. Yeah, do everything the opposite of that, of course. Of course.

41:49.75
Aaron
of course repeat business is wonderful big fan of it yeah yeah yeah if they're into it oh man keep keep going keep going

41:54.19
Seth Macey
It is. It is. It is. There's nothing better. Like, hold on to that like you would your puppy. you know, pet it. Make sure it's got water. and

42:09.55
Seth Macey
Don't neglect, right? Because that mutual ghosting thing, I feel, is right. If nothing exciting is happening, you just kind of fizzle into the ether, both of you.

42:21.38
Seth Macey
Right? You're supposed to be the creative person often.

42:24.92
Aaron
Yeah.

42:24.96
Seth Macey
I know you're not necessarily the creative director, the art director, but a lot of the times...

42:25.02
Aaron
Mm-hmm.

42:30.56
Seth Macey
especially small businesses, they don't have an in-house or an an in-house or external agency dealing with that stuff. there's an there's There's trust in you to present ideas and it's up to them to say yes or no, right?

42:47.10
Aaron
Yeah, just because and it's it feels like ah the beginning of like a relationship or or dating situation where you're like, I'm going wait for them to text today. you know like I think be the one with the initiative in those relationships. You're the creative one.

43:03.75
Aaron
they might not reach out. They might just leave it on crickets or leave it on red. Uh, you did the job. They're not thinking about that. They're thinking about a thousand other things. But if you reach out and you're like, Hey, the first job was good.

43:12.56
Seth Macey
Right.

43:15.64
Aaron
Uh, it was a success. success We, he got off without a hitch. Here we are. i have this idea. i have a little extra time. Are you interested in this idea? They're like, oh, wow, that's cool. Yeah, definitely.

43:29.21
Aaron
And then it's like, great, great. Now we have a second date ah because I reached out. If I didn't reach out, they might've thought I didn't want to work or I'm too busy to do other things, or they're just not even thinking about it. They're thinking about their own thing. So I'm I think it's important as the creative person, as the person that's creating marketing or their photography or their video to be like, hey, let's keep this going.

43:54.83
Aaron
And I think that's on you.

43:56.38
Seth Macey
Sure. Sure. All right. Last one for the day from the business side. yeah

44:06.38
Seth Macey
So my Instagram's fire, probably top 0.01% of any, of anybody out there in terms of quality.

44:15.27
Aaron
Definitely.

44:18.88
Seth Macey
Uh, same with my website. It's just beautifully designed. I'm essentially God's gift to the creative world.

44:27.58
Aaron
You have that tattooed.

44:29.13
Seth Macey
Yeah, across my back.

44:31.41
Aaron
God's gift to the creative world.

44:31.46
Seth Macey
And, uh... Yeah. Yeah, so, I mean, I'm really talented. I have a great portfolio. I know what I'm doing. So, what I like to do because all of this... Because of all of this, I like to kind of kick my feet up.

44:50.00
Seth Macey
And, uh... Just... you know I have the expectation everyone's going to come to me. So I don't ever need to pitch myself to anybody.

45:00.61
Seth Macey
I don't ever need to pitch creative ideas to existing or new clients. um People are going to come to me because, let's face it, I'm um one of the greatest there is.

45:11.99
Aaron
yeah

45:14.42
Seth Macey
And people will just... in the sea of photographers and videographers, people will just be like, Oh my God, and we, we need Seth Macy. Here's a blank check.

45:25.81
Seth Macey
Um, we're going to find him and, um, he's just going so many projects if he's even available. Right.

45:33.14
Aaron
Yeah, man.

45:33.14
Seth Macey
So because of all these things, I don't even bother, um pitching myself to anybody. Um, they'll all come to me. I don't need to, to reach out. It makes no sense to do that.

45:43.58
Seth Macey
So, um,

45:44.79
Aaron
No. Yeah. I, if I were you, I would definitely just sit back, relax. You are doing all that you can possibly do by having an Instagram. That's, that's enough.

45:57.39
Aaron
Uh, these companies aren't getting 200 emails a day asking if people can do photography and marketing for them that they have to sift through.

46:05.49
Seth Macey
No, they're begging for people.

46:07.47
Aaron
Yeah, so they're they're constantly searching and going through random Instagrams and finding random people to say, hey, would you be a huge integral part of our team?

46:19.53
Aaron
We found you. It must be kismet. It must be a soulmate situation. Maybe you are my twin flame. i am not sure whatever you want to call it, but and the universe brought me to your page and I want to make this relationship whole.

46:37.56
Aaron
Would you like to come out to dinner and have a discussion about how we can onboard you to our creative team for 120,000 a year, starting with a $70,000 starting signing bonus there.

46:53.70
Aaron
That's that happened.

46:53.88
Seth Macey
i

46:55.04
Aaron
Seth, how many times does that happen to you on like a daily? Because for me, it's like four or five times that I have to turn down these companies

47:03.17
Seth Macey
Oh, man, I'm going hire somebody to start saying no.

47:06.15
Aaron
Yeah, no thank you.

47:08.03
Seth Macey
Yeah.

47:08.14
Aaron
No thank you.

47:09.26
Seth Macey
No, thank you. I'm dying because i couldnt like keep it I couldn't keep it together when you said kismet.

47:10.49
Aaron
i am I'm busy.

47:17.28
Aaron
Kismet. It's kismet that that you found my page. And I feel like we should be working together for the rest of eternity.

47:26.05
Seth Macey
What is kismet? I'm crying.

47:28.77
Aaron
Kismet?

47:29.83
Seth Macey
Yeah, what is that? That sounds like the name of a Muppet.

47:32.09
Aaron
Let's look it up.

47:35.81
Aaron
yeah firstma

47:39.15
Aaron
Kismet is, can refer to the common English word for fate or destiny. It can refer to an indie pop duo called Kismet from Los Angeles, born by Carly Barnett and Sebastian Runert.

47:48.85
Seth Macey
oh man definitely

47:53.35
Aaron
Let's tag them.

47:54.67
Seth Macey
definitely not that oh man oh that's i'm sure you did i did not doubting that that's fantastic though i was just it was kind of just a word that

47:55.33
Aaron
ah Kismet means a hypothetical force that determines the future or fate and destiny. So I used it correctly. Yeah.

48:08.36
Aaron
Made you laugh.

48:09.22
Seth Macey
and I was just like, what is, of course you would use the word kismet perfectly in a, in a, in a bit.

48:14.54
Aaron
Kismet.

48:19.73
Seth Macey
And it was just so unexpected that I, there's just some, i mean some people are like, that's not funny at all.

48:21.36
Aaron
A kismet.

48:25.62
Seth Macey
There's just some things that get me, man. I just, every three months there's something that I see on my phone or a meme or something, or somebody says something that just, I cry laughing.

48:37.23
Aaron
Yeah.

48:37.97
Seth Macey
and i can't stop it's almost like a release of energy ah um i saw people like some people don't think this is funny some people think i'm an idiot for things this is funny but

48:42.16
Aaron
I like it. Mm-hmm.

48:49.78
Seth Macey
I know we're off topic, but just I'll share a part of my life. There was a medical page on Instagram. Have I told you this story? Maybe. ah It was showing an um MRI of somebody who I guess was like 600 pounds.

49:05.68
Seth Macey
And it was just, it was trying to show how incredible the ah human skeleton is. Like ah the human skeleton is the same size, regardless of like how heavy you are.

49:19.39
Aaron
Yeah.

49:20.28
Seth Macey
So it's this really huge person, like 600 pounds, and there's just a normal skeleton. And it's just supposed to be and incredible marvel of the human body.

49:31.51
Seth Macey
And the top comment was, imagine being so hungry you ate a skeleton. And I don't know what it is. i just cried laughing.

49:42.46
Aaron
That's amazing. That's funny. Yeah.

49:45.03
Seth Macey
Uh, anyways, some things get you.

49:45.17
Aaron
Some things get you.

49:47.81
Seth Macey
My humor's weird. This was how to be the worst photographer ever business edition. Next week we will do artistically and we'll try and keep the same level of character and irony.

49:52.67
Aaron
Yeah.

50:00.35
Seth Macey
Uh, that was fun, man. Until next time.

50:01.55
Aaron
Yeah.

50:02.15
Seth Macey
I had a lot of fun.

50:03.26
Aaron
Have a good one.

50:04.07
Seth Macey
See ya.

50:04.66
Aaron
Bye.