Some Honest Truths About the Creator's Journey

Ever feel the pressure to keep pushing in your creative journey? In this reflective and candid episode, we dive into the highs and lows of photography, balancing passion with practicality, and knowing when to hit pause. From experimenting with viral reels to pondering the philosophy of stepping away, we share personal stories and insights. Whether you're chasing your next big idea or just trying to enjoy the ride, this episode is packed with relatable moments and a reminder to always do your best, whatever that looks like today.

Expect to Learn:

• A new idea for a case study that you can use to show your value to potential clients
• When to push forward, and when to step back to maintain a healthy relationship with your craft
• How reflecting on your creative journey can help you appreciate progress, set new goals, and stay motivated for the future
• How to keep your work fresh and exciting without overwhelming yourself.

Sponsors:

Thanks to WhiteWall for being our lead sponsor this episode! They're the top choice for photographers who want high-quality prints! BLACK FRIDAY site wide sale of 15% OFF from November 3rd until December 1st 2025: https://www.whitewall.com/

Thanks also to the National Park Foundation for sponsoring today’s episode. Enter the Share the Experience photo contest for a chance to win $10,000 and prizes from Celestron, Historic Hotels of America, and YETI. The grand prize winner’s photo could be featured on the America the Beautiful—the National Parks and Federal Recreational Lands Annual Pass. Deadline to submit is December 31st 2025!

 Submit your best shots now at sharetheexperience.org/tpm

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Thanks for listening!
Go get shooting, go get editing, and stay focused.

@sethmacey
@mantis_photography
@thephotographermindset

Transcript

00:21.18
Seth Macey
Blue Jays are up 3-2 in the World Series.

00:25.49
Aaron
That's two games.

00:26.13
Seth Macey
Yeah, I try i tried.

00:26.73
Aaron
One.

00:28.64
Seth Macey
yeah I think I made it to 14. And then I had the iPad playing bedside. And I was just like dozing in and out of sleep hearing the announcers bottom of the 14th.

00:38.50
Aaron
How can you not fall asleep?

00:40.21
Seth Macey
Yeah, I don't know. I did. So and then I woke up to Dodger six, five and I was like, thank God I fell asleep.

00:42.99
Aaron
That's crazy.

00:47.75
Seth Macey
Been an extra letdown, but we'll see.

00:47.98
Aaron
Yeah. Otani got on base nine times in a game.

00:52.66
Seth Macey
Most talented baseball player ever.

00:55.48
Aaron
Yeah, that's what they're saying. It makes it look easy.

00:57.01
Seth Macey
so Easily. ah But when this airs, hopefully it's a Jays World Series.

01:05.83
Aaron
Nothing better than Canada winning U.S. America's pastime.

01:10.81
Seth Macey
Even though the team's probably just full of Americans. It's the reverse. You hear like people who are hockey fans, you hear Americans go, see, the American teams are better. And you're like, yeah, but 60% of the team is Canadian.

01:22.08
Seth Macey
So we got a little reverse here.

01:22.19
Aaron
Yeah. Yeah.

01:24.93
Seth Macey
So that's all right.

01:25.15
Aaron
That's right. Go Blue Jays.

01:26.92
Seth Macey
Yeah. Go Jays.

01:28.64
Aaron
Jays. Tough. Tough mascot. Blue Jay.

01:32.98
Seth Macey
ah Yeah. This is the photographer mindset podcast. I'm Seth.

01:35.90
Aaron
And I'm Aaron.

01:36.99
Seth Macey
And we blend our practice of photography and our mindset behind it. Pretty simple. I think the name of the show explains that. So that'll be our succinct description if you are, this is your first episode.

01:46.81
Aaron
Kind of does.

01:51.86
Seth Macey
Spares are loyal listener fan base to you from URI droning on. him

01:57.07
Aaron
what this is.

01:59.09
Seth Macey
yeah Just big elaborate, cue epic music.

02:00.43
Aaron
Yeah.

02:00.86
Seth Macey
like

02:01.73
Aaron
Yeah.

02:01.74
Seth Macey
I tried something interesting today. I don't know. Maybe people will find this interesting. Maybe not. I don't care. I'm going share it anyways. ah So I'm trying to um pitch a new client that I think would be fun to work for.

02:15.52
Aaron
Go on.

02:15.71
Seth Macey
And I'm trying to create a case study, something that doesn't take up too much time, but that showcases beyond just my body of work that I could do something specifically for them and their niche within the outdoors.

02:29.65
Aaron
Okay.

02:30.91
Seth Macey
So I was trying to, I spent the day making, well, not the day, but I spent part of my day making a little kind of like attempted viral styled reel.

02:44.71
Aaron
okay

02:46.23
Seth Macey
Uh, because socials are important to them based on my research. And was thinking, how could I potentially show that this, how could I make it undoubtedly so that this is a video that would get a ton of views?

03:09.65
Seth Macey
So I was like, oh i know I know a way to take a gamble on this. I'm going to my page, post it as a trial reel because none of my followers will see it. It's not wildlife or landscapes. So I didn't want to like, it won't confuse people because it's going to people who don't even follow me.

03:26.87
Aaron
Uh-huh. ah that work? Okay.

03:28.51
Seth Macey
I just did it, so I got to wait on the results.

03:31.02
Aaron
Yeah.

03:31.35
Seth Macey
And then if it gets like tons of plays, I can be like, hey, look at this thing that i made as a case study. i can make more stuff like this for you. Here's the results. They don't lie, essentially.

03:42.45
Aaron
Yeah.

03:43.75
Seth Macey
I just thought people might find that interesting as a way to use the trial feature. It's the first time I've ever used it. And I thought, hmm, that makes sense to make a case that's objectively inarguable.

03:55.58
Seth Macey
um But of course, that goes with saying it's a big bet on yourself that you have made something that's attentive.

04:02.39
Aaron
Right.

04:02.38
Seth Macey
So it could flop for me, you know, who knows?

04:05.20
Aaron
Yeah. And the, the trial thing, I, I've tried it a couple times and like, I don't know, it didn't, it was, it's definitely limited. And then I even published the thing cause I liked it and it did better. So it wasn't a good measurement for me personally.

04:21.28
Aaron
I know Ian maybe had some good luck with that, but um as he mentioned on the show, but yeah, I wouldn't get too down.

04:27.45
Seth Macey
Yeah.

04:29.40
Aaron
I guess I'm saying if it doesn't necessarily work

04:30.89
Seth Macey
Oh, I won't. I just thought it might be a slick way to be like

04:33.15
Aaron
Yeah, might be a good way for sure.

04:34.14
Seth Macey
ah

04:35.75
Aaron
I think that's a nice way to use TikTok. I don't really do that, but I have before. Like I have a TikTok. I don't really use it at all.

04:46.77
Aaron
um But I have tested reels on there just to get a feel of like, how are they going to respond to this kind of pretty smaller audience and a platform that's made for that?

04:55.03
Seth Macey
Right.

04:57.57
Aaron
And then let me transfer it over and see if it ah if it responds over here.

05:01.03
Seth Macey
It's interesting because you care less about the TikTok platform.

05:02.61
Aaron
so Yeah, I definitely do. i don't really, i'm not fluent in it. I don't know how to really use it except for to post some things.

05:10.95
Seth Macey
Yeah, here's the thing, too. I thought it might be valuable just to share this is because even if it doesn't do sensational or go quote viral, let's say the the brand or company you're trying to pitch is serious about their Instagram or Facebook or whatever, like they're posting stuff frequently so that you can tell they want it to work.

05:31.34
Seth Macey
Let's say the average view plays is 900. nine hundred And let's even say this trial reel 10,500. By no means that crazy, but for them.

05:41.48
Aaron
Yeah.

05:42.37
Seth Macey
by no means is that ray but it's

05:45.20
Aaron
It looks good to them.

05:46.71
Seth Macey
and x for them

05:48.30
Aaron
Yeah.

05:49.27
Seth Macey
And it's a free lottery ticket because if it doesn't do well, like, oh, well, I can still just send the video. I cannot. Like, there's no real stakes. So I thought I would share that with people as an interesting way to build a case study for yourself because we've mentioned that before um beyond testimonials or just your own website.

05:59.17
Aaron
Yeah.

06:05.51
Aaron
Yeah, for sure.

06:09.11
Seth Macey
I sometimes like making mock content like, hey, this is what it could do for you.

06:09.32
Aaron
think that's a good idea.

06:12.86
Seth Macey
Not sinking too much time into it, obviously. you could I feel like yeah it could get away from you. Here's 40 hours and they go, oh we don't have a budget like just making sure that it's something simple and uh and then if it you don't get the outcome you wanted at least that you like learn something editing it or it was fun to make etc so i hope that's helpful for people and maybe get some thinking

06:20.24
Aaron
Right, right.

06:35.65
Aaron
Yeah. um I like it. and I think it's a good idea. I think, let me, let us know how it works.

06:41.82
Seth Macey
yeah i'll come back next week i was like it did two plays

06:45.67
Aaron
Trial thing didn't work, but.

06:47.01
Seth Macey
Like, listen, I'm not a social, I don't know. There's some people who are just so good at it. And I do think that the, obviously it seems like the way that I've said that makes it seem like some people get it and some people don't like anything. I'm sure if you dedicated a ton of time and energy into figuring it out.

07:02.87
Seth Macey
You will do just as great as everybody else, you know? Uh, and, and you notice the people who, the people who get it Don't just get it. In other words, they've figured it out and they've they've built a skill set. And you can really tell who has, right?

07:20.50
Seth Macey
i am saying this because I am not one of those people. Like, I do not, I have not put in enough effort and reps and research to stay current on what keeps attention because that's all it really is right um we know that now when it's not necessarily quality it's or what's the best it's what's

07:35.80
Aaron
Yeah. Yeah.

07:42.99
Seth Macey
what keeps the most eyeballs on for the longest. And i feel really happy for the people who are able to blend their art with that in a way that makes them feel good. ah I'm sure that's a very nice feeling.

07:54.70
Aaron
yeah

07:56.15
Seth Macey
And I love when I do the small amounts of time I do spend online. I love when I come across those kinds of pages. It's like, you figured this out. Good for you. Like, I know that this wasn't easy or, and it's not easy to continue online.

08:10.23
Aaron
Yeah, definitely. I think it's, I think it's very difficult. I think what's really trending right now is where are people with very fascinating personalities or humor or intelligence and kind of talking head stuff where you're like so drawn into them as a person and want to hear what they say and hear the different stories and different thoughts and different observations that they have and, and all that stuff.

08:36.81
Aaron
Uh, that seems to do really well. I feel like the stuff that gets repeated in a certain way has lost a little bit of its allure.

08:47.39
Aaron
i don't know, maybe it's back to actual connection or or hearing from people or seeing someone's face, seeing the personality behind the account, like that kind of stuff seems to be a lot of what I'm seeing that is trending and gets passed around a ton.

09:03.21
Seth Macey
Yeah.

09:03.63
Aaron
So I don't know.

09:03.81
Seth Macey
Interesting. Interesting. ah

09:06.83
Aaron
I don't know.

09:07.40
Seth Macey
Well, you seem to, well, you don't seem to, I know this for a fact. You keep track of the actual date you started photography.

09:15.53
Aaron
I just remember my first ish post, which was in October of 2019.

09:17.41
Seth Macey
ah

09:20.60
Aaron
Yeah.

09:21.66
Seth Macey
So you're going by your first publicly posted photo.

09:25.94
Aaron
yeah Where I said like, I'm, I am mantis photography and I'm doing a thing that was October 2019.

09:26.73
Seth Macey
and

09:34.04
Aaron
Yeah.

09:35.07
Seth Macey
Yes. And it was at that point he confused everyone about the spelling of his actual last name.

09:41.78
Aaron
yeah And my last name and what it is and all everything.

09:44.08
Seth Macey
yeah He went by Mantis Photography, but his last name is a Manus.

09:44.70
Aaron
Yep.

09:48.28
Aaron
You tricked.

09:48.71
Seth Macey
People still don't really know what's going on.

09:51.80
Aaron
I like that.

09:52.63
Seth Macey
really duped everyone.

09:54.14
Aaron
little mystery.

09:55.79
Seth Macey
If you know God gave me a chance to go back in time and change anything, I would go back and change that for you.

10:03.49
Aaron
Hey, listen, kept a lot of people from trying to find me or being able to.

10:08.96
Seth Macey
of people are outraged that that's the decision I would make.

10:11.82
Aaron
Yeah.

10:12.36
Seth Macey
I'm not sorry.

10:13.68
Aaron
You change all of history.

10:15.06
Seth Macey
ah So it's been six years since your first posted picture, which is kind of interesting.

10:18.67
Aaron
Thank you.

10:20.65
Seth Macey
it I personally don't know how long or when I started, and that's not better or worse. I just find it interesting that... This is clearly still very important.

10:31.80
Seth Macey
It's important enough to you to remember the dates and assumingly it brings a level of introspection for you. And I'm assuming that's where you're hoping to go with the conversation having briefed me prior to pressing record.

10:47.51
Aaron
Yeah, I just think it's, ah I like to reflect. Maybe it's timestamps, maybe it's, nostalgia. Maybe it's nothing. I don't know, but I do remember, I do remember getting into it and that definite switch.

11:02.39
Aaron
I mean, I lived most my life, not in the photography world. And that was a pretty drastic switch. Also, I lived most of my life, not in a, um, Facebook, Instagram, social media worlds.

11:16.29
Aaron
So to, have an Instagram that I put into a lot of time and energy into for the first time at the age of 37, 38, 37, I guess, technically, uh,

11:29.59
Aaron
thirty seven i guess technically ah Nope. 38 technically. Uh, yeah, I am.

11:34.50
Seth Macey
You December day

11:37.86
Aaron
So I was 38 at the time and and yeah, it was, uh, people say like, oh there's no photos. they Like we can't tell what your life's about. I'm like, yeah, I just never really put a ton of photos of myself on social media ever.

11:54.15
Aaron
So I kind of missed that whole thing. And, it became about photography and that was more comfortable. And I just went with that. Um, so yeah, it, but it's been a, it's been a crazy journey.

12:04.85
Seth Macey
Yeah. Yeah.

12:08.30
Aaron
Uh, here I am talking on a photographer's podcast.

12:10.96
Seth Macey
yeah

12:12.11
Aaron
Uh, I always think of that and be like, wow, that's, I do not see that one coming in life. And just think it's, uh, it's funny what, what passions you have in the moment or something that sparks an interest. And then if you catch that wave, if you are surfing and catch that wave, you can ride it a very long time and kind of at the end of the ride, be like, wow, oh that was neat that that all happened.

12:38.51
Aaron
So there's there's ah there's millions of those moments, maybe not millions, thousands of those moments where it's like, doing this because of photography or I'm getting paid for my photography skills.

12:49.92
Seth Macey
Right.

12:50.59
Aaron
And it's, I'm not trying to brag. I am just kind of saying though, like, I'm, I'm surprised. I'm, I'm observing it. I am, I'm elated by it. Like, it's like, wow, this is a, this is just neat.

13:06.32
Aaron
I'm proud of myself. I guess I can, I'm not afraid to say that. Uh, it's good to be proud of yourself. And there are definitely moments of this journey where it's like that you, you made something from zero in 2019 to the end of 2019, you started a thing and here you are and you're pitching companies and you're working with Airbnbs and you have a podcast and you're setting up trips for people like, of course, with your help.

13:33.71
Seth Macey
Why is it important to you and to listeners to kind of think about that?

13:35.92
Aaron
Hmm.

13:40.54
Seth Macey
I mean, I guess through you, why is all, everything you've just described, why is that important? I ask this so that listeners can have the same conversation with themselves and potentially apply it with you sharing your own experience of the why behind that.

13:52.97
Seth Macey
Yeah.

13:53.92
Aaron
Yeah, I think nothing's...

13:58.96
Aaron
Nothing is out of reach in certain levels. I mean, am i are are we booking trips every week? Is this our full-time job? Are we making half a million dollars doing this?

14:12.68
Aaron
No, but there's a level of success where it's like, hey, right now our scale is one time a year. We have a trip and we sponsor it, we go.

14:24.86
Aaron
People have a good time. People are return customers. We're succeeding at that.

14:29.16
Seth Macey
Wow.

14:30.72
Aaron
And those are the levels that are cool. Am I working with Nike or Patagonia? No. Am I working with smaller companies and creating contracts, sometimes five ah five space Contracts?

14:47.23
Aaron
Yeah, sometimes. That's pretty cool. ah Do I have opportunities to use my skill to market certain things or be a part of certain things? Yeah.

14:58.50
Aaron
Can I use my skill to barter for certain things? Yeah.

15:02.23
Seth Macey
Yes.

15:02.27
Aaron
All that stuff's pretty cool. So I think the the lesson or the thing that's important to look at is like in 2019, I was just like a wide-eyed kid picking up a camera and realizing you could get a little bit of attention on social media for a photo.

15:19.32
Aaron
cool. But all right, what's next? Oh, you, we can, uh, meet people through this. Met Seth, met Brett, Nooch, Adam, Danny, good group of people set up trips together, go explore camp, get outside, get more into nature.

15:32.83
Seth Macey
Thank

15:37.89
Aaron
Like all these things became positives in my lives, in my life that I started to recognize and notice like, wow, thanks photography. Wow. Thanks photography. Wow. Thanks photography. and kept appreciating it and then saying like, what do we want to try next?

15:52.18
Aaron
Like, what else can we try? What else can we keep going and keep practicing and not settling in a spot that's like, um I don't know, not necessarily stagnant, but just like like settling, not saying, oh, i don't think I could ever get paid for this.

16:09.59
Seth Macey
So is it is reflecting on this important for you and likely for everybody? Is it important because it's a reminder of the endless amount of possibility? Is that fair to say?

16:21.38
Aaron
Yeah. And where you, that is fair to say, ah there's so much room, i think in this space to figure out different avenues of creativity, different avenues of potential income, different avenues of meeting people and creating communities.

16:40.52
Aaron
I've seen it before my eyes, not just with stuff that we've done, but like people setting up communities, people setting up meetups, people setting up photographer conventions. And I mean, the list is endless. So there's just so many things that you can do with an idea. And if you feel like it's a good idea, it's usually...

17:02.71
Aaron
the case that other people do to at least one other person or two other people.

17:06.62
Seth Macey
Yes.

17:06.79
Aaron
And then, you then you have a group of three people that think this is a good idea. How do we spread this idea now? And how do we move through it and like keep growing and keep adding on to it? And I think it's easy to get stuck where you are.

17:20.78
Aaron
It's like, ah it's plateauing. It reminds me ah again of like music or ah learning an instrument. you, you and everyone probably has this from John Mayer to whomever playing guitar probably feels like, I'm just doing the same thing over and over again. um How can I get any better?

17:41.09
Aaron
And I think all of us as creators and people that are yeah stuck in our editing habits or get stuck in um the the pitches that we're making or the companies that we're working with and we get stuck in those on those plateaus and then have to figure out, okay, how do I continue this plateau but also have the courage and the ability to make a leap to the next plateau and see if I can get up to that spot and then create my life around that new plateau.

18:11.67
Aaron
And I think that's the important part is, and that's why I remember the six years. And although it's getting up to six years, I still feel relatively new or young in this space.

18:24.43
Aaron
And it's important to on my day to day be like, Wow, you've gone a long way in six years. It feels like an eternity, but it was just six years. And where could this be in another six years if you keep pressing in the same sort of way Where, what will you be looking at at that point?

18:44.49
Aaron
And then looking back at 2025 and going like, holy cow, I can't believe in 2025, I was, you know, i'm sitting in my basement doing a photographer's podcast with Seth and now look where we are, you know, whatever that may be.

18:59.33
Seth Macey
Do you feel like this fantasizing and daydreaming about the future and what could be and reminding yourself that you have the ability to continue to push because you've done so in the past, do you think this puts an unfair pressure on yourself?

19:19.58
Seth Macey
to continue? In other words, do you think it sets a precedent or an agreement with yourself that you're obliged to continue photography for as long as you live? This is something thought about. I've thought about you know how how much courage would be required to walk away from this if I ever felt that

19:48.61
Seth Macey
It wasn't fun for me anymore most of the time.

19:53.66
Aaron
Yeah, man, that's, you add things to your life that are like, I mean, the the easiest example, i think, and I enjoy doing this and we were talking about this a little bit, but like we do this weekly, right? At, but the pressure upon itself is building. We're on like episode 300 in a, in a few weeks and it's the pressure builds to, Oh, now you need to show up.

20:18.20
Aaron
Now you have more fans that are expecting you to show up. Maybe you have more, you have a trip plan. So you got to show up until at least the trip is over. Like you keep built or you you have sponsors contracts.

20:30.22
Aaron
We can't, yeah, we can't finish.

20:30.91
Seth Macey
ah do you ever get out if you want to? like I'm not suggesting I want to, but I'd like to know the option is there, and I realize that the option is only there if you have the courage to make it so.

20:42.42
Aaron
Yeah, so to answer the question, do I put that pressure on like to keep building or or stick in it?

20:50.40
Seth Macey
ah but The question was just fantasizing about it and I guess essentially idealizing ah how far you could take this as a dream life. Does that indirectly put pressure on you to feel like you have to continue at whatever endeavor, whether it's photography or not?

21:13.68
Aaron
Yeah. For me, if this was my full-time job, probably yes. Like if I made that leap, then yes, I think it would be, the pressure would be immense to keep growing.

21:22.55
Seth Macey
you

21:27.33
Aaron
Don't fall backwards. Don't lose salary. Don't lose income. Keep figuring out how to be more efficient and do better to a point. I don't think I would dig myself into a grave trying to make millions in photography.

21:42.71
Aaron
But I do think I would be worried about a living wage, to be honest, and paying all my bills and living the lifestyle that I'm accustomed to all that baloney.

21:52.90
Seth Macey
Yeah.

21:53.81
Aaron
So I think there, I do think I have the, uh, the privilege of, again, and we've said, this isn't necessarily the worst thing. And people are like, I want to leave my nine to five and, and do this full time. have my,

22:08.77
Aaron
not nine to five, but different hours, but I have my full-time job that I feel like if I got to a point where this is not fun anymore, I could just go, hey like I'm not really doing that or I can really pick and choose.

22:23.99
Aaron
Yeah, I'll do that one contract that pays well and it sounds really fun and it'll dust off the old camera um and I'll go do that, but I'm not goingnna um not gonna sweat over,

22:31.16
Seth Macey
Yeah.

22:37.77
Aaron
editing deadlines and all these, all these obligations anymore. Cause I just don't want to

22:46.10
Seth Macey
Yeah, I guess what I'm really touching on is as you progress, having the awareness to check in with yourself so that you avoid becoming a slave to the craft.

22:59.64
Seth Macey
Because I've caught myself before feeling like I'm serving photography and it hasn'ts it's not serving me and like you know at times. And I've had to kind of figure out, A, how I let it get to that point and where do we go from here. Often it's a reset.

23:17.76
Seth Macey
It's a step away. ah But this is just, it's a concept that I think about a lot is

23:29.50
Seth Macey
am I obliged to continue to push and push and push simply because I have the capability to do so?

23:41.36
Seth Macey
I mean, this is kind of getting very philosophical. I understand that.

23:45.09
Aaron
It's the mindset part of the show.

23:45.22
Seth Macey
Uh, But this is this is insight into some of the thoughts that I have at night. um Because, yeah, even using your the the podcast example, it's like, oh, God, okay, 300. Now we can't stop. That's a... May as well make it 500. And like, oh okay, it's 10 years coming up. And...

24:05.32
Seth Macey
you know there's just There's something also to be said for having something that you've chosen to do and it remaining steady throughout most of your life. I realize I am young, so saying that doesn't make a lot of sense, but I more so mean having a citadel kind of to return to, right?

24:25.13
Seth Macey
Where I have this thing that it's always kind of there and I can ramp up the intensity on it or I can...

24:32.56
Aaron
Yeah.

24:33.33
Seth Macey
I can turn it down as I see fit. I don't need to be ah drag racer going a hundred miles an hour to a destination that I've, you know, fantasized about that's 20 years down the line. I think this really ties into just being able to live almost on a day to day, week to week. How am I feeling? Do i need to do less of this? Do I want to do more of photography? Do I want to experiment with,

24:59.06
Seth Macey
You know, something else artistically. For example, the other day I found a found a raccoon skull. People are going to think I'm weird. And I did the whole hydrogen per peroxide thing and bleached it because I want to make art out of it, out of driftwood. Like I want to mount it on driftwood and put like...

25:14.67
Seth Macey
Moss, live moss.

25:14.86
Aaron
Cool.

25:15.77
Seth Macey
And I was, man, I felt I got this feeling how I did when I was in my first year of photography. And I was like, holy shit, like I haven't felt this way in a long time.

25:22.50
Aaron
Yeah.

25:26.74
Seth Macey
And I mean, there's nothing wrong with that.

25:27.07
Aaron
Yeah.

25:28.46
Seth Macey
you know it's It's tough to feel that way frequently when you've been doing photography or filming nearly every day for your life, for yeah or for um a large portion of your life.

25:42.89
Seth Macey
And I just kind of thought it was an interesting insight. And I guess this recent event has made me start thinking, like, you know, what would be required to give up everything? am Am I strong enough of a person to do that if I pleased to?

25:55.61
Seth Macey
Or if if, you know, if that was something that I couldn't lie to myself about and I really wanted to do, like, I think it would be, this is all preemptive talk, of course. Like, relax, everybody. I'm still here.

26:05.80
Aaron
Yeah, Seth's still here.

26:07.44
Seth Macey
It's just the thought of like, huh, I wonder what it would take for me to be able to do that. And I wonder if I would be able to trust my inner voice and have faith that like, oh, it'll all work out. You know, I think that's hard to do. And I wonder how many people.

26:23.06
Seth Macey
listening or not have found themselves in a situation where they're like, oh man, I did that for too long. I wish I'd turned the heat down or I had done something different or added more variety to my life or it was okay not to um go crazy and feel like I had to just push push push push push push, push, push, push all the time in order to feel like I was succeeding or ah worth something.

26:44.52
Seth Macey
So, There's not really a thesis here about what to do. I think it's just me saying um these are a thoughts that I have, and B, if you have them too, potentially consider them and what they mean for you in living a life that aligns with kind of your virtue.

27:00.85
Aaron
Yeah, i this applies to, i think, anything. And it's like,

27:07.36
Aaron
I play out live musically with a band of great fellas.

27:12.58
Seth Macey
Right.

27:12.79
Aaron
It is super fun, super fun once a month.

27:14.32
Seth Macey
Right.

27:17.54
Seth Macey
Yeah.

27:18.09
Aaron
the best time something ah look, look forward to it.

27:18.97
Seth Macey
Do you look forward to it every time? Yes.

27:22.10
Aaron
i i itch for it. Like I want to start practicing. I start what's the set list. We start talking about it. I like to market it. If we go every other week fun, but in the, the second week about halfway through, i get like, I don't know what the feeling is exactly to describe, but it's it's It's too close to the last performance where I can judge myself against the last performance and feel like, ooh, this is better or this is worse than it was two weeks ago or I messed that up or I like this better here.

28:01.65
Aaron
And, ooh, this is long. I'm tired. ah if I think of a touring musician.

28:08.93
Seth Macey
Right.

28:09.98
Aaron
And maybe when I was younger, I was like, wow, that would be so cool to be – But when I actually think about what that would take, it's for a special person.

28:20.34
Seth Macey
right

28:20.46
Aaron
It's for a special person that like, this is their purpose. This is not just a pipe dream. Like this is for someone that's this, their special purpose. Just like, I think we were talking about it like the the doctor that just does ah ACL repairs, MCL, like knee surgery every day for the rest of their life. Like that's their specialty.

28:42.77
Aaron
Like, does that,

28:42.95
Seth Macey
Which is super cool, but how do you be...

28:45.97
Aaron
How do you get excited or like feel like unless it's like this is my purpose, like I accept that this is my purpose and I put on pants just like everyone else and I go to work and I do my thing and I'm helping people and I enjoy that.

28:47.52
Seth Macey
Yeah.

28:51.44
Seth Macey
Sure.

29:00.46
Seth Macey
Yeah.

29:01.57
Aaron
I kind of feel that with my day job, it's not like the most exciting thing in the world, but at the end of the day, I'm like, I'm helping some kids out. I'm trying to.

29:11.65
Seth Macey
Right.

29:13.13
Aaron
feels pretty good, and I'm okay with that. And I think the same with photography is like, It's fun to grow, but I agree completely with what you said in the ability to pull back when you need to and the ability to press and like try to get that extra client or say, hey, I have this one client. I just, I'm gonna just focus on them.

29:35.48
Aaron
I'm not gonna try to book my weekends and book my every single day.

29:39.27
Seth Macey
Sure.

29:40.46
Aaron
I'm just going to focus on this one client as long as our relationship is good. And that will satisfy me.

29:47.65
Seth Macey
sure

29:47.86
Aaron
And even, even within that relationship, having these moments of like, really listen to yourself. And I had, I had an argument with myself on the couch an hour before we were recording.

29:59.60
Aaron
And the argument was, oh I should really do a Halloween photo for the microphone company that I, that I work with. And I'm,

30:08.11
Seth Macey
Oh, that should. Should enter the chat.

30:10.48
Aaron
Yeah, I'm going to go borrow a pumpkin, but it's pouring out. That might be gloomy and moody photos like that would be pretty good. But I'm not even sure they're going to use this. And this is going to take me two hours of my time. And I don't feel like I have that reserve in my battery to go do that for the possibility that this doesn't happen.

30:33.64
Aaron
When i did this last year and they use some, I let's say I gave them five Halloween photos. They use two of them. And instead I made the decision to just update them and say, Hey, uh, Halloween's tomorrow in this folder. There's a few photos that we didn't use from last year, uh, that I think are, are spot on are good. I don't think I would do anything different or more creative this year.

30:58.74
Aaron
Um, use them if you want. And I ah kind of fulfilled both needs of like, Reminding them that in this old folder on drive, there are some Halloween photos, some spooky photos, and also not trying to like prove myself or kill myself and do all this extra work, albeit maybe a little bit late.

31:12.87
Seth Macey
Yeah.

31:23.65
Aaron
Shame on me ah to just like prove a point or like. I don't know, force it in a sense. I just wasn't feeling it.

31:32.02
Seth Macey
yeah

31:32.97
Aaron
And might've at some point been feeling it more, been like, yeah, let's go, let's do this. I have a good idea. Let's do it. ah All right. Uh, I, I took, I took the L for today.

31:44.82
Aaron
um

31:46.40
Seth Macey
Is it a no?

31:46.57
Aaron
ah

31:46.88
Seth Macey
I was going ask you how you felt that afterwards about that decision.

31:51.84
Aaron
I felt a little, the tiniest bit, mostly like, Hey, listen, this was the right choice for today.

31:53.26
Seth Macey
Good, natural.

31:57.72
Aaron
Like, uh, the four agreements do the best that you can with the best version of yourself that you have for today.

31:57.83
Seth Macey
Okay.

32:06.28
Aaron
Uh, that's what I had.

32:07.20
Seth Macey
I still have to read this. I'm pulling it up.

32:09.79
Aaron
You still have to read it.

32:10.96
Seth Macey
I haven't read it. This is the Four Agreements.

32:11.77
Aaron
Oh man, you gotta, um, yeah, it's a good one.

32:14.06
Seth Macey
Aaron has suggested that I read it.

32:16.93
Aaron
short too.

32:17.52
Seth Macey
or i bet you he could read this in the morning or an afternoon.

32:20.78
Aaron
Yeah, definitely. I mean, do one agreement for a day and then you're done in four days.

32:25.53
Seth Macey
The Four Agreements by Don Miguel Ruiz. I'll pick that up.

32:30.06
Aaron
Yeah.

32:30.06
Seth Macey
I have four books on the go right now, so I'm trying to close some loops.

32:33.51
Aaron
one of them's always do your best.

32:33.63
Seth Macey
Let

32:34.95
Aaron
And it's not just, that doesn't mean fight through things to do what you think is your best.

32:39.00
Seth Macey
me cherry pick.

32:40.14
Aaron
It's, it's do the best for the version of yourself that you have on that day, whether you're sick, uh, that might mean rest for yourself. In this case, like I've, I've been go, go, go, go. go And,

32:52.66
Aaron
The idea of running out for two hours and creating just one more photo, I was like, that's it's not that's not going to be my best work. It's not the best version of myself.

33:02.31
Seth Macey
but

33:04.33
Aaron
I made a different decision and and I'm okay with it. Do I feel like, oh I left a little meat on the bone? Sure. Sure. But what can you do

33:15.73
Seth Macey
Yeah, I was just flipping through the book as you were talking. It's actually the Do Your Best is actually listed as the fourth agreement in the book. Um, which is interesting. I was trying to cherry pick a moment, just read something random as somebody who's never picked this up.

33:32.10
Seth Macey
Should I read just some random part of it?

33:34.77
Aaron
Yeah, but what's the first paragraph of it?

33:37.11
Seth Macey
Um, it's like an intro. Um,

33:43.72
Seth Macey
Under any circumstance, always do your best, no more and no less. But keep in mind that your best is never going to be the same from one moment to the next. Everything is alive and changing all the time, so your best will sometimes be high quality, and other times it will not be as good.

33:58.81
Seth Macey
When you wake up refreshed and energized in the morning, your best will be better than when you are tired at night. Your best will be different when you are healthy as opposed to sick or sober as opposed to drunk. Your best will depend on whether you are feeling wonderful and happy or upset, angry or jealous.

34:16.74
Aaron
Yeah.

34:17.97
Seth Macey
So I can see why you pulled that. That makes sense. um You know, you're feeling like I'm drained. This is the best I can do right now.

34:27.78
Aaron
Yeah, I didn't, it didn't, didn't feel worth it.

34:32.66
Seth Macey
Right.

34:33.49
Aaron
All the, all the aspects.

34:36.34
Seth Macey
True. You know what would make me feel good? If I could show you this raccoon skull that I referenced I have.

34:42.56
Aaron
Do you have it?

34:43.26
Seth Macey
yeah Yeah, I'm walking to get it. Take me three seconds.

34:45.18
Aaron
Oh, nice. Let's talk about Seth while he's gone. So he's going to get raccoon skull. ah That's normal.

34:57.09
Aaron
that's That's concerning. As a counselor, a background in counseling, I have concerns.

35:03.58
Seth Macey
Are you talking about a red flag that I pick up dead animal skulls and hydrogen peroxide in them for days on end?

35:05.19
Aaron
No.

35:09.84
Aaron
No, I was saying that I liked your outfit, the green and the brown, and you look nice today.

35:14.74
Seth Macey
Oh, I got to grab the driftwood too that it's going to be on.

35:17.07
Aaron
Oh, all right. Grab that.

35:21.35
Seth Macey
Okay, I'm so i'm ready.

35:23.92
Aaron
Okay.

35:24.24
Seth Macey
This is why people need to go to YouTube. um Here it is. I got to make sure that the tooth doesn't fall out on it because it was falling out. Can you see it?

35:34.79
Aaron
Yeah. It

35:36.14
Seth Macey
It looks like General Grievous for my Star Wars fans.

35:39.41
Aaron
does.

35:39.77
Seth Macey
um Really cool, very thin ocular bone near the eye. I'm showing it to the camera for YouTube, but I think you can still see it in our monitor.

35:45.26
Aaron
Yep.

35:52.55
Seth Macey
Uh, so I'm going to take this. It actually had, um, two really big canine teeth here, but I only had, I, it only, it's supposed to have two.

36:03.75
Seth Macey
It only was found with one. So I took it out so that it's symmetrical.

36:06.16
Aaron
um yeah yeah two thought yeah

36:07.82
Seth Macey
But if you look up a raccoon skull, you'll see that they have some pretty gnarly canine teeth that could, oh, tooth fell out on the ground. Yeah, I'll pick it up after. but so I have this piece of driftwood.

36:19.42
Seth Macey
See this? So I'm going to... I think I want to mount it something like like this.

36:29.39
Seth Macey
think it's going to be mounted on the driftwood.

36:31.46
Aaron
yeah

36:34.17
Seth Macey
Like that. See that?

36:36.87
Aaron
Yeah, that's cool.

36:38.06
Seth Macey
hold Hold it better for YouTube.

36:39.23
Aaron
The driftwood kind of resembles the shape of it all.

36:43.83
Seth Macey
Yeah. So... I don't know. That's me being, or it could be like a center. It could be a coffee table piece or something or not.

36:54.10
Aaron
Yeah, that's neat.

36:54.88
Seth Macey
I don't know your style, but I found it and I have a project. I have a vision for it. It's different creative outlet and I was like super excited about it, but I figured I would show you it.

36:58.87
Aaron
Yeah.

37:03.42
Aaron
That's cool. Now we know what you're about.

37:05.15
Seth Macey
Yeah. So if you have dead animal skulls,

37:06.55
Aaron
Psycho.

37:09.81
Aaron
Send him to Seth.

37:10.73
Seth Macey
send me them there's actually i would and then i got into weeds there's actually a whole community of artists who make bone art so like i guess they find roadkill or something like that um and make these beautiful sculptures and designs out of them and sell them um

37:17.16
Aaron
Mm-hmm.

37:33.02
Seth Macey
I just thought that that would be kind of cool. And you could give like a portion to a wildlife refuge or something to like make it come full circle, especially if it was like an injured animal or deceased animal.

37:35.22
Aaron
Yeah.

37:38.32
Aaron
Yeah.

37:42.23
Seth Macey
Right. But, uh, I just thought it was neat. So yeah, maybe we'll see how this goes.

37:46.17
Aaron
Yeah. Maybe get into it. No, no, no, no, no i have thought it's ties to what you're doing and your your new passion let's call it

37:55.63
Seth Macey
Should just um have it on my shoulder the whole episode?

37:55.74
Aaron
like your yeah please

37:59.27
Seth Macey
Just one of these little dead raccoon. It's funny too, because on 500px today, I posted a baby raccoon in a tree photo.

38:08.69
Seth Macey
So what does it make you think?

38:08.77
Aaron
Ironic. But, but no matter what we do in the future or get into, we have the skill of some level of marketing and photography and editing.

38:19.14
Seth Macey
Taking a picture of it. Yeah, exactly.

38:21.35
Aaron
Yeah. So I've always thought of that as like, wow, what a, what a tool to have in my tool belt is like, no matter what I get into, I feel like this will potentially always be a, an important piece of ah my journey.

38:25.74
Seth Macey
I thought that too.

38:36.35
Aaron
So

38:36.48
Seth Macey
Yeah, because you can always, if you ever start a different business or whatever, you can just, you know how to take videos and photos of it. Like you, you got it.

38:43.98
Aaron
yeah

38:45.59
Seth Macey
It's super cool. I've thought of that too, um which is important for people to remember. And I think Mike talked about this as I'm trying to get this tooth back in.

38:53.91
Aaron
Dentist. Also a dentist in his spare time.

38:55.25
Seth Macey
There we go. I got it back. I'm to have to gorilla glue it in.

38:58.35
Aaron
Yeah.

38:58.35
Seth Macey
It doesn't come out. um I think Mike talked about this. Like when you switch careers, bring the stuff you learned with you, obviously, duh, right?

39:06.37
Aaron
Yeah.

39:07.15
Seth Macey
ah

39:07.31
Aaron
Right.

39:07.92
Seth Macey
It doesn't just go away.

39:10.40
Aaron
No. Yeah, that's as that is good advice.

39:11.33
Seth Macey
This

39:13.06
Aaron
And um if nothing else, you're you're teaching ourselves marketing skill and advertising and being able to display your life in an artistic way.

39:14.35
Seth Macey
out of my face here.

39:27.17
Seth Macey
Yeah. yeah Yeah. Another thought I had too today. I've been catching myself using AI way too much in the sense of like, every time I've like had a thought or like a problem that I'm trying to figure out, I've been finding myself going to my AI program.

39:43.46
Seth Macey
Whereas I would used to just like think about it and figure it out and make the best decision that I could conjure based on life experience, anything I've read or listened to, et cetera.

39:43.78
Aaron
Thank you.

39:54.51
Seth Macey
And I find myself routinely going to, to chat, to to ask about it, or to the the AI chat. And I've been noticing how much extra time it adds to workflow into my day.

40:12.70
Seth Macey
And because you can just keep fine graining the criteria of your initial inquiry, inquiry to the point where there's so many different intricacies and options available to you that you end up getting so bogged down in the information and options that you don't ever actually end up making or executing on a decision.

40:38.09
Seth Macey
and it just got me thinking like, huh, I'm going to start living a life of just not throwing planning and thinking and pondering out the window, but like, I'm going to think a little bit less and maybe get some answers more along the way. Like I already think I do that. Well,

40:54.62
Aaron
Yeah.

40:55.05
Seth Macey
ah But I can feel it slipping a little bit with you know constantly feeling like I need to go get the right answer before I follow through on something. And I'm going to start doing more forward motion rather than that.

41:10.71
Seth Macey
Too much lateral motion. ah just um Just personal experience that's been going on with me recently that I thought I would share. Because I think it's just so easy to...

41:20.25
Aaron
yeah

41:22.94
Seth Macey
think your life away and feel like it's progress, right?

41:29.58
Aaron
Yeah, think it away or wow just what's it like commission it out.

41:36.12
Seth Macey
I'm not going to start until it's perfect, until I feel like planned it all out.

41:36.35
Aaron
More like commission out the thinking to other programs.

41:44.59
Seth Macey
Right.

41:46.63
Aaron
I can imagine the amount of people that rely on devices.

41:55.49
Seth Macey
Yeah, we've talked about that.

41:56.77
Aaron
And it's just it's just a habit versus paying attention to, trying to pay attention and exercise the brain. Think about it. Oh, I'm going west, so I should come back east on the highway.

42:09.34
Seth Macey
I do do that. yeah as I just don't turn it on. I more so turn it on to know how long it's going to take, but.

42:16.19
Aaron
Yeah, I like it. I mean, i'd definitely use it. I'm just saying ah the ah reliance on it, especially for someone that's always lived with it. I used to have to print out, that's how old I am, print out MapQuest directions.

42:28.78
Seth Macey
Yeah. I mean, I'm...

42:30.76
Aaron
going to new york Going to New York City with printed out MapQuest directions is, ah that's something that most of you will never have to experience.

42:32.16
Seth Macey
Yeah.

42:41.81
Seth Macey
You see...

42:44.99
Seth Macey
My parents used to print out arenamaps.com to find the hockey arenas that the games were at in a way towns and centers.

42:53.85
Aaron
Yeah.

42:54.15
Seth Macey
And like 20% of the time they were so wrong. a little star on a map printed out on your printer paper with terrible res and then it's like the steps.

43:06.81
Aaron
Yeah, the steps.

43:07.87
Seth Macey
You are here.

43:09.85
Aaron
Am I clicking the odometer? Just to see, you know, you have to measure like 5.2 miles. Take a left. All right, have to measure.

43:16.53
Seth Macey
yeah

43:17.94
Aaron
I have to make a mental note of that math.

43:19.99
Seth Macey
I mean, I wasn't driving at the time, but you were.

43:22.94
Aaron
Phew. Tough.

43:24.87
Seth Macey
Maybe we'll do our next retreat, wherever that is, with MapQuest.

43:25.81
Aaron
of

43:29.26
Aaron
No electronics.

43:30.29
Seth Macey
Is it still a website?

43:31.77
Aaron
Zero. I bet.

43:33.23
Seth Macey
MapQuest.com? that Is that a safe? Oh, I'm scared.

43:38.38
Seth Macey
It is!

43:38.57
Aaron
they What do we got?

43:40.56
Seth Macey
It's just search places or paste a link. Hotels, food, shopping, coffee, grocery, gas, looking for directions. MapQuest it.

43:48.15
Aaron
Perfect.

43:49.07
Seth Macey
Amazing. Okay, well, it's a website full of ads.

43:51.69
Aaron
ah Good for them.

43:53.76
Seth Macey
That's how they're keeping it alive.

43:55.24
Aaron
They've survived.

43:55.85
Seth Macey
this this This is a cigar-bought business. It's just relying on the last 70-plus people who still only know that MapQuest is...

43:59.92
Aaron
Yeah.

44:04.45
Seth Macey
Or don't know that Google Maps...

44:05.25
Aaron
Yeah.

44:05.40
Seth Macey
Can't use Google Maps.

44:07.26
Aaron
Yeah. Their sponsor numbers are.

44:08.05
Seth Macey
Once that generation goes, it's it's gone.

44:09.95
Aaron
Yeah.

44:11.61
Seth Macey
Judging by the amount of ads on this website keeping things alive, that's my that's my diagnosis, prognosis.

44:12.07
Aaron
It's not.

44:19.15
Seth Macey
I give it 10, 15 years.

44:20.66
Aaron
Yeah.

44:21.24
Seth Macey
ten fifteen years

44:22.17
Aaron
It's probably true. and They're done. They're toast. They're cooked.

44:26.11
Seth Macey
Oh, no.

44:27.28
Aaron
Yeah.

44:27.85
Seth Macey
I want to get a shirt for the show that just says I love MapQuest.

44:27.88
Aaron
MapQuest.

44:31.57
Seth Macey
Think I didn't make one?

44:32.82
Aaron
It's a good shirt.

44:52.47
Seth Macey
Yeah. ah That's all I got for today, man.

44:56.30
Aaron
Yeah, that's it. she Keep plugging away and and enjoy the ride. That's all I can say. I'm

45:03.57
Seth Macey
Don't ever tell me what to do, ever.

45:06.07
Aaron
not. I'm telling the people.

45:07.31
Seth Macey
Okay, well, I guess you can tell them what to do. It's half years ago.

45:10.55
Aaron
Yeah. Half of you listen to me. The better half.

45:14.03
Seth Macey
And half years ago to or half dislike you and half dislike me.

45:15.89
Aaron
Yeah.

45:21.44
Aaron
The same half. They just hate us both. They just come in to fuel their hate.

45:26.84
Seth Macey
But more people like me now because I have a stylish John Deere hat on.

45:30.42
Aaron
That's so cool.

45:31.66
Seth Macey
Thanks, man. i don't even own a John.

45:33.05
Aaron
That's very 94. Oh.

45:35.37
Seth Macey
That's the year I was born.

45:37.08
Aaron
ah

45:38.14
Seth Macey
So I didn't know if you were saying that on purpose or.

45:38.34
Aaron
that's That's when the... No, that's when I think it was popular.

45:43.15
Seth Macey
um well, it makes sense.

45:43.28
Aaron
John Deere hats. You're bringing it back.

45:45.74
Seth Macey
I'm bringing it back. I mean.

45:46.79
Aaron
I like it. Where'd you get that hat? You purchased it?

45:50.74
Seth Macey
um Haley's grandpa passed away a few months ago and big John Deere guy.

45:53.88
Aaron
Oh, yeah.

45:56.77
Seth Macey
Like this is actually a pretty cool story.

45:56.95
Aaron
yeah

45:59.54
Seth Macey
um So he had refurbished this old John Deere tractor from the thirties. And when he was a ah kid, he grew up, I don't know, most of the people listening are Americans, but Canadians will know he grew up in, i think it was Manitoba and they had a John Deere on the farm, John Deere tractor, his farming family. I think it was, don't remember what, Haley will correct me. I don't remember, but there was farming. They had a John Deere tractor, and then he moved to Ontario later in life and then bought this, I guess, rusted up tractor with the intent of refurbishing it, and the paperwork traced it back to a farm on manitoa in Manitoba,

46:48.35
Seth Macey
Within ah certain, you know, square kilometer, square mile area of where he grew up. So there's very high likelihood that the tractor he refurbished some 50, 60 years later was the one that was on his family's farm.

47:04.46
Aaron
huh

47:05.24
Seth Macey
which I thought was a super cool story for the sake of the story it is, but it is also just very likely that that is the case.

47:07.81
Aaron
Very cool.

47:11.86
Aaron
Yeah.

47:13.64
Seth Macey
Um, so yeah, he was a big John Deere fan.

47:13.78
Aaron
Yeah.

47:15.20
Seth Macey
And then, so these were at his celebration of life. And so I throw it on every now and then cause it's stylish too.

47:18.56
Aaron
ah Yeah, I like it. It's a good green.

47:21.66
Seth Macey
Yeah. Yeah.

47:24.09
Aaron
That's a good story.

47:25.08
Seth Macey
Yeah.

47:25.46
Aaron
All right, man.

47:25.50
Seth Macey
All right. We'll end on that story then till next time.

47:27.49
Aaron
Yeah. Take care.